In the novel Starship Troopers, Robert Heinlein described a world ruled by a military elite called the Terran Federation. Only veterans of the military enjoyed full citizenship, including the right to vote. Those who did not perform military service retained their rights of free speech and assembly, but they could not vote or hold office. As is true of every system there were some exceptions here and there, but important government jobs were reserved for federal service veterans.
This idea of earning citizenship through military service has always had some popularity on the Right, for no other reason that it would seem to exclude the sorts of people who are living arguments against democracy. It seems unlikely that you will get too many people like Ocasio-Cortez in public office if she must first do a tour in the military, rather than just wink at customers as a barmaid. Even if she passed that threshold, military veterans are too serious to vote for someone like her.
Rule by warrior elite has an appeal because it conjures images of the Middle Ages in which a ruling elite arose from the warrior class. A world governed by an honor code just sounds better to right-wing people. It also brings to my Spartan society, which proved to be superior to Athenian democracy in the Peloponnesian War. A society rule by male warriors just feels like it would be better. At the minimum, it would avoid the problems that come with the feminization of society.
There is a less fantastic appeal to this concept. In the novel, this system arose in the aftermath of the collapse of 20th century Western democracy. That system proved itself unable to combat crime and juvenile delinquency. Interestingly, Heinlein also imagined a future in which the West teams with Russian against China. Another reason for the new system of military governance was due to the inability of fully democratic systems to confront the authoritarianism of China.
Another way of looking at this setup is in the larger context of the novel in which earth is at war with two alien species. The decisions that must be made in such a war cannot be left to lonely barmaids. They must be made by the people who have skin in the game, which in the case of earth, means the warrior class. Remove the giant bugs trying to destroy earth and a system controlled by those with skin in the game could simply mean a system ruled by property owners and families.
The Heinlein idea sounds good until you look around at present day America. Some of the worst people in public life are veterans. The obvious example is Lindsey Graham, who is arguably the wort human in the Senate. The reason we can say this is his mentor John McCain is now in Hell. When Graham joins him, there will be other veterans ready to fill the role. Richard Blumenthal and Joni Ernst will be the early favorites, but we will no doubt be spoiled for choice.
By the time Lucifer calls Graham home, Dan Crenshaw and Brian Mast may have parlayed their military service and general awfulness into the Senate. Crenshaw is the veteran’s version of Ocasio-Cortez. Mast has used his service and wartime injury to make himself Israel’s main representative in Congress. They have many other representatives in the imperial congress, but only Brian Mast wears the uniform of the Israeli military to work every day.
While the Heinlein model sounds good in theory, in practice it is probably better to ban veterans from public office. There certainly have been some veterans in Washington politics who have done good work for their constituents, but the terrible ones have done far more damage. The fact that veterans are so easily turned into weapons by the neocons suggests the military selects for the sorts of people who will gladly become a mercenary for whoever can write the biggest check.
This may be the result of the volunteer military. Despite all the patriotic blather, the American military is composed of mercenaries. They structure their pay to attract the types of people they need. The military does not restrict itself to citizens, as military service is one way to win citizenship. Due to the lack of white men joining the ranks, the military is now looking to recruit foreigners. The fact is the relationship between the institution and the soldier is purely transactional.
Another reason for the terrible veterans rising up in the political ranks is the nature of all democratic systems. Voting bestows authority on the people doing the voting. Win the crowd and you are right, morally, and factually. Of course, the best way to win the crowd is by convincing them you are a virtuous person. If the people assume you are a good person, they are going to give you the benefit of the doubt, which means you will win those 50-50 debates against someone without your reputation.
John McCain leveraged this reality by waving around the flag with one of his damaged arms, while reminding everyone he was a prisoner of war. His initial foray into politics came soon after he returned home. He commissioned a long article in a big foot magazine about his deeds as a POW. His physical injuries won him sympathy and his tales of heroism won him respect. Who was going to challenge John Wayne McCain, especially when it came to military matters?
Another reason military service should be a disqualifier is that it is the worst possible training for democratic politics. In theory, politicians in a democratic system are in office to represent their constituents. Maybe those constituents are determined by geography or by ideology, but they are always real people. Those real people are living in the real world living normal lives. The ideal representative is one who has lived as his constituents and alongside his constituents.
Outside of congressional districts that have a large military base, life in the military is alien to civilian life. The military trains you to be a useful cog in a vast bureaucratic machine in which none of the cogs get to make many choices. The choices that do arise come with a well-defined list of options. Most important, the military comes with a floor as long as you do the minimum. Real life does not come with a floor. You can do all the right things and still get dealt a bad hand by reality.
Of course, all of this is an argument against democracy. It is a system that selects for the worst sorts of people. These are people who seek to use any means necessary to win over the crowd in order to profit themselves. Whether it is Ocasio-Cortez shaking her boobs in front of the camera of Crenshaw waving the bloody shirt around, the point is always the same. Democracy rewards the politicians who are adept at turning your virtues into a vice so they can exploit them.
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I’ve actually read the book a few times, and it sounds like most here haven’t, or haven’t recently. The political system in Starship Troopers is about volunteering for service as the only way to earning franchise. That service does NOT have to be military. In fact, in the book, one of Johnny’s friends who signs up with him becomes a scientist working on Pluto. The government has to take you, if you don’t quit (and they try very hard to get people to quit), but eventually, if you persist, they will find something for you to do that matches your… Read more »
The real reason to restrict the franchise to veterans is that it would be de facto segregation. White males would suddenly hold a disproportionate amount of power, and the entire political establishment would shift hard to the Right. Restrict it to those who have actually been shot at, and the voting pool becomes even less diverse.
While the military is becoming less White, it’s still overwhelmingly male. That alone would do wonders for our political system.
I hate to point out the blindingly obvious but anybody who willingly enlisted in the US military since the 50’s is unfit for any position of authority higher than dog catcher.
They clearly had no grasp of reality. The first utterance of “serve my country” or “patriotism” dooms them.
” It also brings to my Spartan society, ”
Brings to mind, surely?
Why would Shirley come to mind?
That’s Z’s real name.
Best comment section in the web!
“The military does not restrict itself to citizens, as military service is one way to win citizenship. Due to the lack of white men joining the ranks, the military is now looking to recruit foreigners” When I saw that line the thing (and I mean thing since he can’t be human) that came to mind was Markos Moulitsas. He’s the Greek horse-fucker who started the Daily Kos. He used to have a sort of mini-bio of himself in the “about” section of that cesspool. Reading it gave me the distinct impression that everything about the man (including his military service)… Read more »
I believe Heinlein’s main point in Starship Troopers was that there had to be some way of limiting the franchise to people who actually had skin in the game. Military service (in a hard environment, not an alternate form of welfare) was his solution, at least for purposes of the novel. Limiting the franchise to property owning males is another (and perfectly reasonable) means to the same end. The main take away, at least initially, is that “one person, one vote” just doesn’t work — as the news makes clear every single day.
Combat, children, land- it all keeps coming back to blood and soil, doesn’t it?
And for whites- honor.
You will not find a lazier more self entitled bunch of spoiled welfare queens outside of Baltimore than your average military family. My wife is a private physician and the Tricare people are as bad or worse as Medicaid. I served for 10 years, and there are many decent hardworking honorable military personnel. But they are the minority. Everyone in that system lives in a purely socialist world. Promotions at the senior ranks are 100% political. I get Heinlein’s point but you can’t build citizenship around takers. For a long time I’ve felt that citizenship – and hence voting rights… Read more »
American democracy is only about positioning yourself as the moral candidate in appealing to Whites. Everyone else votes on tribal, financial and immigration (as in getting their family to the US).
I am closely related to some military academy grads, and while they would bristle at being called mercenaries, that’s what they are. They joined because they were Type A people who enjoy physical fitness, the challenge that the military offers, and the fact that they get to do cool shit like fly the government’s airplanes, shoot the government’s rifles in foreign countries, travel, learn foreign languages, get educated, and get paid — quite well — for it. They are followers and “organization men” because they have been rewarded with excitement, status, honor and money for being so. As for the… Read more »
A minor point (which earlier commenters might have brought up): In Heinlein’s novel, non-veterans weren’t just barred from office — they were barred from voting altogether. People who’ve served in the military might be quicker to recognize someone like John McCain as an annoying blowhard (there are no shortage of such people in the service), and would probably be less impressed by his military record — especially since any theoretical opponent he might have would ALSO be a veteran. Then again, maybe not; it would be interesting to compare the views of military veterans with the general public on a… Read more »
Veterans are more convinced than the rest of us that soldiers should die and veterans should kill themselves.
Who’d know better?
I agree. Heinlein’s fictional society recognizes the most fundamental trait necessary for a functioning democracy: limiting the voting franchise.
Strip away the military requirement and that’s the essence of his idea: Too many people voting is a bad idea. So only five voting rights to citizens, and make the citizenship threshold higher than “you were born”.
“Mercenary Rule” The more I think about it, the poorer this essay seems. It was not carefully thought out. A mercenary fights ONLY for profit. These people throughout history are famous for leaving as soon as the pay stops or the danger passes an unacceptable level. And that bar is set low. The soldiers in the novel were taking huge risks with their lives, and no level of pay is high enough to make up for that risk. Oh and possibly here is a real-life example. At least, it’s one that has always impressed me. That young football star who… Read more »
Pat Tillman wasn’t a mercenary. He was just a foolish, young man that got caught up the patriotic hysteria (sometimes idiocy) after 9/11. He went to Iraq and saw it for the waste that it was and probably had the same observations about Affie when he was killed by his fellow soldiers.
He appeared to be straight up guy but that doesn’t mean I would want him as a political leader.
I heard he was diddling a (female) soldier of higher rank. He apparently retained his celebrity jock personality as well. Couldn’t find any confirmation of this.
He probably was a straight up guy, and had good intentions, but military service wasn’t the best fit for him.
I was a career enlisted soldier and retired in 2018, so I’ve got some strong opinions here. Some of what our gracious host wrote here ruffled my feathers, but that’s ok; I become highly suspicious of my own mind if I agree with someone 100% of the time. My goal here is to add some insight to Zman’s “mercenary” characterization applied to Heinlein’s ideas. I’ll completely agree with Zman’s assessment of elected veterans, and also add Bob Dole, Bush The Elder, and Senators John Murtha and Daniel Inouye to the list of grifters. I will disagree though that the military… Read more »
Brilliant comment and largely agree outside of a generalized concept of earned citizenship. Nations belong to their blood, not to those who “earned” citizenship (maybe an ethnostate would permit earned citizenship, which would be akin to knighthood, but that also would somewhat undermine the concept of blood and soil).
As for “(Heilen’s) veterans do not account for 50% of the bumper sticker industry,” that, sir, ranks as one of the best lines I’ve ever read.
Thank you for the compliment!
My own concept of earned citizenship is along the lines of a house where adults make the big decisions. Kids don’t get to vote on if the family invests in a 401k or goes to six flags.
Service may not equal responsibility, but eliminates the lazy and some of the irresponsible
Wait until all the weirdos being recruited by the military today are vets. Shanika and the tranny crew are going to soil the institution even more than it already is. They’re going to have to make their symbol the rainbow dildo with the brown stripe to represent Shanika.
First, gays weren’t allowed in the Army.
Then it was “don’t ask, don’t tell”
Then it was “be as gay as you like”
I quit before it became mandatory
We’re maybe a quarter century out from the first tranny veteran president, if the “republic” still exists by then. There won’t be any boomers, and not as many Xers, left to vote against it.
Yawn.
Get your own blog if you want to write a career history.
As a retired officer in the reserves, I quickly realized that those who played “the political game” moved up the chain to flag rank and those who were good at their jobs but didn’t play these games hit a ceiling. Even those like me that didn’t publicly object to various idiotic policies and bureaucratic maneuvers were penalized by our silence. I joined because I want to fly, something I still do today. I hated all of the other BS that went with it and that was why it was easy for me to retire without any regrets. When I joined,… Read more »
Excellent point about the O-6 ceiling; the generals need actual performers at that level and below.
“ The military system selects for the most compliant, play-it-safe officer who is a good peacetime administrator.”
The same managerialism and careerism is now in the NCO ranks. The Warrior SGM (Sergeant Majors) are creatures in hiding or of the past.
The system excels also at the garrison support the warfighters careerists pushing out the combat veterans- even the Junior enlisted. I mean E4 and below.
100% correct about the NCO corps. I can’t count how many excellent guys I saw go to the Sergeants Major Academy and re-emerge as boot-licking yes-men.
It is a full on purge of quality at this point. However, this is to our benefit if the military gets pointed internally.
“If we get in a real war, the real leaders will rise up and the keyboard warrior bureaucrats will be sidelined. ” I would not count on that. Any institution can reach a point of rot so deep that it cannot recover. This is one of the reasons why empire and a large standing military are not good ideas. Like how are you going to rollback all the terrible equality ideas? Equality is so thoroughly ingrained in the population at large that they literally will turn their head away to avoid seeing it. When looking at a place like Detroit… Read more »
I would tell those White boys that “you won’t be fighting for your country, you’ll be fighting for your government.” And let that thought sink in.
If one ever has a chance to watch the ENTIRE St Floyd incident, beginning to end, they will see him turn to Chavin, and tell him that he suitcased a lethal dose of Fentynal up his ass. (But he says it in ghetto speak, so you might miss it).
Dude knew he was gonna croak. You can see it all over his face.
I’m hoopin man! I’m hoopin!
dr_mantis_toboggan_MD: “That said, the real warriors who do the fighting seldom rise to the top anymore. The military system selects for the most compliant, play-it-safe officer who is a good peacetime administrator. They’re followers, not leaders, by nature. That’s why the rank and file flags are going along with all of the social engineering such as trannies, anti-white pogroms and other gobbledygook that has nothing to do with fighting wars.” You’re describing the Passive Aggressive Industrial Complex. The Passive Aggressives are ruthlessly [arguably perfectly] efficient in identifying & promoting “Team Player” personalities whilst simultaneously destroying the careers of the “Loose… Read more »
I differ on some of your points, but “Passive Aggressive Industrial Complex” just became part of my lexicon.
Bravo!
Not just the military (although what you’ve said is what I observe from the outside: top brass are political schmoozers, many if not most are time servers looking to maximize their bennies/retirement – even if it means lying or exaggerating PTSD/disability) but society as a whole lacks true leadership and competence. It’s been a downward spiral the last 20-odd years. I don’t know that the country is capable of producing a McArthur or Patton anymore. “If we get in a real war, the real leaders will rise up and the keyboard warrior bureaucrats will be sidelined.” That’s the hope, but… Read more »
Been a while since I read that book, but it struck me as essentially the right idea. And it’s totally unfair to compare today’s US military to the one in the novel. Today’s US military is more like a welfare program. Lots of lower-income people signing up for free education, room and board and a regular paycheque, and etc. I have heard of many of the same freaking out when a deployment to a war zone is announced. Suddenly women get pregnant, men develop back injuries, etc. How many of these people would volunteer in the middle of a hot… Read more »
“Today’s US military is more like a welfare program. ”
THIS.
In my experience, growing up in a majority black community and schools, the ones who didn’t quite cut it for HBCUs went military. So, not the complete dregs, more of the 90-95 IQ types.
Of course, this anecdote is aged 20+ years so that window should probably be adjusted downwards a bit…
“Heinlein was a smart guy”
USNA 1929.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Gee Z Who should rule? Blogger philosopher Kings? But who will defend the Blogospheric Empire? Conscripts? But who will conscript them? The Slaves? But… 🤣🤣🤣 “ This idea of earning citizenship through military service has always had some popularity‘ YES, since Athens. Until the 19th century citizenship was always in exchange for military service. It would have been ludicrous- until the 20th century- to give power to those who assume no risk and have no idea what power does (force). >” this is an argument against Democracy. “ > very well, you realize all Kings were just hereditary military… Read more »
Until the 20th Century a perk of being in the military during wartime was being able to loot all you could carry from rich neighborhoods and bend the daughter of the house over a chair and have your way with her on the way out. Our military did that in Havana during the Spanish American War. At least I could respect a military that did that, not one that became overpaid garbage collectors for Haitians a few years ago. Let me tell you something son. The modern military and police are the “thin green and blue lines” that protect the… Read more »
Son? I’m probably older than you.
Say hello to the trash lol.
The envy… the Bile… the bitterness…
The Z blog.
I deliberately skipped over some points in my comment because I hoped someone else would make them…and you delivered.
I deliberately skipped over the entire post because the orthography suggested its author is an escapee from an asylum.
As a veteran I can’t really disagree with the Z-man’s thesis.
I always laugh being in the private sector, when military vets (usually ex-officers) tout their “leadership skills”. LoL, sure, you’re a leader when disobeying your orders can result in jail time or even discharge (the end of your career.) Doesn’t work that way in the real world.
As for that POS wearing his IDF uniform to his job in Congress… in a better time he would have already been summarily executed.
One more time. Just for the record. I clearly remember getting my first passport in the 60’s. In order to do such I and to swear I had *no allegiance to*, *nor citizenship in* any other country. I was questioned about my birth and my parents birth. I specifically had to denounce my father’s country and birth place. Only then we’re they satisfied. I could never wear an IDF uniform, or if so probably not hold a Congressional office. I had no problems with these requirements. I held a draft card (for US army, not Israel). This I had to… Read more »
Compsci: So the question is, “What the hell happened?”
ANSWER:
https://tinyurl.com/2p8upmyb
I get a kick out of retired (often failed) sportsball coaches being routinely trotted out as motivational speakers for corporate sales people
I’ve met 30+ year old men that still act like high schoolers because someone has been telling them what to do, where to go, and when to do it since they enlisted at 18. The modern military isn’t comparable to warrior societies of the past. For most it is just an office job where the boss manages your life for you. In my experience as a right-wing activist, we eventually came to be wary of anyone with a military or police background. They were almost always incapable of operating independently and floundered about without explicit structure. They were usually the… Read more »
Your observations may be true, can’t disagree from lack of experience. However, perhaps it’s a product of the modern volunteer army as we’ve produced in the last 50 years? I keep thinking to the interviews I’ve seen of old WWII vets and now Korean War vet’s. One that struck me was of a vet from the Pacific theater who’s platoon had all officers—commissioned and non-commissioned killed, even their replacements. Yet, the platoon continued to fight the entire engagement for days on end with only the rank and file making the decisions for the group. When asked how they knew what… Read more »
Combined, yours and CompSci’s posts sum it all up perfectly. The old military (the Old Breed, to steal from a great US Marine author) were warriors. That was another era, another world. Since then the US has fought many wars and lost ALL of them. Because the nation itself is no longer serious. And it’s men are indeed infantilized. The entire culture is. So today instead of warriors, your military is a high school football team, all testerone and tought talk and posturing. And ready to faint at the sight of blood. (I know this does not go for everyone.… Read more »
We lose war’s because we are betrayed at the peace table.
Because morons and women sell their votes.
As a 20yr vet, I can tell you that it takes a deliberate effort to not become institutionalized like Brooks in “The Shawshank Redemption”.
Military intelligence is an oxymoron.
Wow I haven’t heard that brilliant witticism since … the dining hall at uni. Always spoken by some neurotic, pencil-necked bookworm. Oh and Alan Alda probably spat out a few variations of that on the old MASH TV show before the political winds changed and he suddenly decided to drop the Hawaiian shirt and put on fatigues. I know, it’s really a double-entendre: “intelligence” in this usage simply means information. But in war, having up to date info is a matter of lite and death. And so is the ability to use that information. So soldier-intelligence is very real thing.… Read more »
Aside. One thing about the Uke’s, could/would any modern Americans match them? Say what you will, but they race to the slaughter—and still they keep coming.
Russians win, Ukrainians win…it doesn’t matter, Whites lose.
The following are not real veterans:
Graham – JAG lawyer.
DeSantis – JAG lawyer.
Ernst – woman.
Blumenthal – deferments until the war almost was over, then cushy job.
As to McCain, he was the idiot scion of an admiral and grandson of another admiral. Military nepotism at his worse. Then the NVA brainwashed him, while he sold out his fellow POWs. See Schanberg’s expose: https://www.nationalalliance.org/hot-topics/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up
I met a fellow who struck me as a very solid joe, so I trust him.
He said he was part of McCain’s extraction team.
They hadn’t laid a finger on such a high-value prisoner as “Songbird” McCain.
He said McCain wore a brace to make himself look injured.
Slight correction…
Graham – JAG lawyer, woman
Remember McCain’s tour of Baghdad in 2007? Yeah, I was there for that. It was akin to putting on a Broadway musical. An entire infantry battalion for security with 6 Apaches circling overhead. He went on the news that night to tell everyone how safe Baghdad was.
There’s a reason They erected a statue of McCain in Hanoi. No Vietnamese had more confirmed kills of Americans.
Forrastal anybody?
Heinlein and his concept of military rule (citizenship) might be something of a straw man. It’s a good commentary jump off point for discussion, but does anyone in this group who has read Heinlein’s books believe that military service equals fitness to rule? Or that such would be sufficient to end our current troubles? Rather, from reading comments over the years, I’d say this group would rather tend to believe that universal suffrage (citizenship) is the problem and Heinlein simply took a stab (proposal) at *one* possible solution to the defect of universal suffrage (unstated) in a democratic society. Indeed,… Read more »
Jeebus. 10 stars. A thousand.
Yes… do keep at identifying those interests.
Someone watch the sky though.
LMAO
Military suffrage only would mean that not many of our young Southern white men, the last hope for this country, would ever be voting. They have wised up and not signed up So the corporate titans are having to turn to foreigners, which was probably the plan all along, to – if nothing else – dilute the military with Third Worlders who would have no trouble shooting white Americans.
“ Rather, from reading comments over the years, I’d say this group would rather tend to believe that universal suffrage (citizenship) is the problem and Heinlein simply took a stab (proposal) at *one* possible solution to the defect of universal suffrage (unstated) in a democratic society.”
In one of his essays in “Expanded Universe,” he as much as said that as one of the reasons why he wrote “Starship Troopers.” He also in that essay offered alternate proposals (e.g. solve a quadratic equation or the voting booth becomes a disintegration chamber).
But military service in exchange for the vote was the rule from Athens until the 19th Amendment.
It’s ludicrous to ask people to fight and deny them the vote.
BTW we must have read another Starship Troopers, because in Heinlen’s version the protagonist chooses military service as his grades don’t qualify him for other service.
The operative quote; Civilians have rights, Citizens take responsibility.
I was not denying citizenship to the military per se, only that such needs to be tempered with other avenues to citizenship. I expressed myself poorly in this regard.
I would not say military service equals fitness to rule.
But, I believe it would eliminate many of the unfit and all of the purely self-interested.
Reminds me of a personal anecdote from when my employer purchased a business a few years ago. I took one look at the work done by their “computer guy” and my first question was “He was in the military, right?”. This was because, and, sorry vets, decades of seeing work done in specifically bad ways by former military guys had made an…impression*. I was initially told “no” but when his resume (poorly written, natch) turned up after we told him his services were no longer required it of course showed that he leaned heavily on his past military service to… Read more »
If we want to talk skin in the game, in ancient Greece, every man was expected to pick up a sword and fight for his polis when the time came. Those who survived doing that for a decade or two became the leaders of the polis. Those who didn’t, well… So what skin in the game do Americans serving in the military since maybe 1978 have? Lindsey Graham served was in Germany as a member of the JAG during the Reagan years. Was his day-to-day life there that different from a private lawyer working in New York in the 1980’s?… Read more »
I’m rather loath to reveal my veteran status because of the mindless adulation a lot of normies have for us. I was a tech in an air conditioned office most of the time and while I was in I knew some good people and also some total dirtbags.
I’m gonna.have to agree regarding the argument against democracy. While many vets may see through the BS of dirtbags like Crenshaw and others, the retarded masses just assume veterans are automatically good choices to vote for.
I’m glad we share the same opinion on veteran worship. It’s not good for anyone, veterans most of all.
I stopped wit the “tank you fer yer service “years ago just seems gay
What would happen to an honest vet that ran for office?
The same thing that happens to any honest man who runs for office.
And I remind the audience that a majority of whites elected and re-elected Obama, and because of the welfare and other statist goodies.
Welp, now that illegal foreign military age males outnumber our military 6 to 1, the new admin after Joe’s assassination by Hamas will have plenty of recruits- many of them already trained!
And with a new war to fight, since New York* radio tells me China is backing Iran.
(*Largest juden nation outside of Israel.)
If a person is a peacetime vet or a desk jockey, where is the virtue in that?
On the other hand, if all it takes is to be eligible for combat duty to be virtuous then we already had that when only men could vote.
So weird I was just watching the classroom scene of st this morning and musing that I don’t k ow the novels real message cause I’ve never read it. Great movie, loads of fun. Love ironside
The best part of Troopers is that it’s a 1940’s Bing Crosby-style recruiting movie!
Yep. The over the top promotion of benefits of “service” was great! Main problem with the movie was that the writers/director turned it into a “B” grade sci-fi, kill the *bugs* movie and played down the Heinlein philosophy part. A sort of homage to the reduced level audience intellect of the time. I can only assume they believed the audience had little contact with Heinlein books and aimed for the pre-teen, cartoon crowd.
Contrast this movie rendition with say, the new “Dune” movie. Like night and day.
Don’t confuse the film with the novel. The former maliciously went out of its way to misrepresent Heinlein’s arguments.
It really did.
The one operative quote
“Civilians have rights. Citizens take responsibility.”
Dear God, I had no idea that that pathetic twerp Aunt Lindsay had actually served! I’m sure the veterans here will understand the term “Instant asshole, just add bars/stripes” and this applies here. I’ve met people during my time in the army who were good leaders and who the guys had a great deal of confidence in. Unfortunately, they were few and far between. Most of the guys who got promoted wanted to throw their weight around, indeed, a few of them really got off on it. Almost every one of them ended up in jail. Prior to him ending… Read more »
Unfortunately she was unable to fill a combat role.
Anybody remember when Wesley Clark ran for president (‘04 iirc), and he talked about reorganizing society to be more socialist like the military? He didn’t use the S-word, of course, but that was the gist.
Weird how egalitarianism, meritocracy, totalitarianism, and war machines go together. Hard pill to swallow as an American, but look at our record. We’re a very conflicted people!
The military since at least WW2 has been a leftist social engineering project. When you consider how many commies were in the FDR admin it makes sense. The GAE’s primary purpose today is to spread gay anal and BLM across the globe and uses the military to do it.
Miss Lindsey represents South Carolina, which aside from having the most “christians” per capita, also has, from what I’ve read, the most veterans per capita. Given this situation, the dumbest of the dumb bumpkins live in that state. That’s saying something because several states can give them a run for their money. Instead of the word veteran, I should say “gold-bricker” or “teet sucker.” One of my most vivid childhood memories is having private sector parents (worked for a living) near a large military base. Every military customer they had wanted something for free. They were disdainful of the people… Read more »
“Thank you for your service” is such a stupid thing to say. They did not serve to benefit anyone except themselves.
Most people who join the military are poor and desperate. The military is there “last chance” option to get it together, try to get respect, and get a paycheck. The veterans I’ve met have been pretty mediocre. I mean, they’re ok, but nothing special. It’s mostly Mexican-Americans from what I can tell!
“Most people who join the military are poor and desperate. The military is there “last chance” option to get it together, try to get respect, and get a paycheck.”
Sorry, but that is just an amazingly stupid thing to say.
I tend to agree. Those I’ve met, and recently too, were a cut above most any civilian I can name. Albeit, they were White and members of elite units and I was considered in a position of authority (long story for another posting), but they were exceptional.
Never have I been addressed with such respect, courtesy, and demeanor. The interaction I had was not simply a handshake and introduction. We spent a couple of days together interacting in training and competition. I was not alone in this view and confirmed it with others.
I never understood why there were so many “homeless” veterans when they should all have made such good use of those veteran benefits like money for college and job ready training so they can walk right into a job after they serve their time. And the VA home loan department. So, could it be they were addled to begin with and were more addled when they came out and that’s why they were homeless? Splain it?
Maybe many of them were barely veterans, or not at all veterans. Like guys who were in the military for a few months and were discharged for mental illness or committing some crime. I distinctly remember one publicized case of a “homeless vet” who made a big stink about something, in an activist kind of way, whose military service consisted of being kicked out of boot camp after a week or two. Name escapes me. Although I’m sure that homeless vets do exist, I think it’s somewhat a mythical phenomenon. Kind of like the drug addled burnt out shabby biker… Read more »
I don’t have stat’s or firm info on homeless vet’s and such, but I see many begging from the roadway with cardboard signs using “homeless vet” as an enticement to give. Are they really vet’s or clever beggars? I tend to suspect the latter. In MX, I most often found beggars with their “hungry” children in tow. Again, real or fake?
Wrong.
80% are generational, it runs in families like cops and firefighters.
In fact the same families.
> Every military customer they had wanted something for free.
Lol. I seem to recall every civilian vendor near a military base offering “special” pricing to active duty: Like 30% interest on a used car loan!
Yep, every dumb slicksleeve fresh out of highschool and basic is just itching to spend his money as soon as he sees it in the bank account. They want a car and want it now, and the slimebag used car dealers know it.
That “50% off for veterans” coffee and special veteran parking spots at Home Despot are just a virtue signal by the businesses to appeal to their retard customers who actually think the military are heroes. They clearly noticed that the guy coming in to buy planks all the time also was driving a Ford Phallus 150 with a little American flag on it and the virtue signal would be easily offset by charging extra for those planks.
Yep. Support for the military is the only acceptable form of “rightism” in AINO. All these Leftist corporations and outfits toss the fly of supporting the military as boob bait for Bubba, and I’m sure it works. I suppose it never occurs to the Grillers and rubes that AINO’s military is simply the spearhead for every form of depravity, dysfunction and anti-white racism under the sun.
The boobs have been sedulously guarded from the current degradation of the military and its having been shanghaied to spread the depravities.
That’s one good thing Obama did – fired Stan McChrystal’s insubordinate ass. He forgot who signed his checks.
But Obama did listen to the generals on the dumb and costly “surge” idea for Afghanistan, when he had other & better options to end the war.
If only “veterans” voted, it wouldn’t be a cure-all but it would be an improvement. (Does commanding a desk for 4 years in peacetime make one a veteran?) Or at least it would have been an improvement, up until about 20 years ago. Today’s GAE military is as pozzed as everything else, and I’m not sure if it any longer can be expected to select for or produce a better class of human. Something I’ve noticed, beginning with the 1990s when everybody started thanking the “veterans,” was a growing sense of entitlement among the newer members. “I’m special because I’m… Read more »
Jeffrey Zoar: My son absolutely hates anyone who thanks him for his ‘service.’ My late father-in-law (airborne, ranger tab, silver star, etc.) had nothing to do with the military once he retired – no VFW hat, no special license plate, etc. Just a quiet and confident yet humble man. Advertising it isn’t patriotism, it’s personal pride and boasting.
When I see a vehicle with the military decals/retired vet license plate, I automatically distrust. Not because I have known someone who displayed such fraudulently (although I have known someone who did), but because it suggests other things about their character.
I know people like that and they do so because it is the most important thing they ever did in their lives (visions of Al Bundy talking about his high school football career come to mind).
I remember when that dirty, rotten carpetbagger “maverick” mcstain showed up to win the AZ senate seat formerly occupied by Barry Goldwater. Despite ditching his first wife, military vets were still held in fairly high esteem back in those days. I still don’t know how he dodged the Keating five scandal as he was guilty as sin – it was a major detriment to the country over the next several decades. Mark kelley is cut out of the same mold, though nowhere near as high profile.
The problem with McCain and other vet’s we’ve had running for office is that by law, they can claim State citizenship upon cutting out of the military in *any* State they were once stationed in. McCain was notorious at that time for looking for a State that had a favorable “open” seat. He’d have just as easily run in CA or elsewhere. He was *not* and Arizonan in the slightest and had no roots here initially.
Carpetbagger is of course the correct term for him, the above is just an elaboration why.
The “maverick” was no such think. He simply a run of the mill liberal who ran as a Republican because AZ had lots of retired vets who voted Republican. He would always pander during the campaign, then once safely elected, would go back to whatever liberal stuff he thought was so wonderful. McCain survived the Keating Five scandal by being very contrite about it when publicly confronted by the reporters. The other four acted relatively aloof and arrogant about it. McCain was very good at being contrite when he wanted to be. BTW, McCain like having lots of blonde women… Read more »
It’s hard for me to imagine any working system of government for the GAE. America, if it ever was a country is certainly not one now. It’s a multi-ethnic empire where all the foreign groups see it as a bank to be robbed in any way possible and where few have any loyalty to the empire. Plus we are a corrupt and immoral society. It may even be a stretch to call the population a “society”
Excellent description. Mirrors my thoughts exactly.
I’ve wondered about military policy over the years and I’m thinking there’s no real optimal choices when we’ve been governed by feckless a-holes for the last 60+ years. Is some kind of universal conscription the best choice? If it is, you still have useless pud-pullers like JFK and LBJ sending essentially everybody to die in some war of choice and the country almost tears itself apart. What about a volunteer force? With a volunteer force, some mincing moron like Shrub feels fine with sending the military literally anywhere because “They signed up for it.”. Neither choice works when American leadership… Read more »
Vietnam was the last war where existential combat was frequently up-close and personal. And even then, it was rare that you might have to shove a K-bar in between someone’s ribs and continue twisting it until the struggling stopped. McCain was a lousy pilot who dropped bombs from 15,000 feet and never had to get personal until he got himself shot down and thrown into pit cell. And then later cried about how he broke, as if it was a virtue. And most heroism is accidental and reactionary. You do what must be done despite the insanity and not because… Read more »
No, there’s been plenty of very up close and personal since Vietnam.
Good grief you can find it on youtube.
On a very small scale there has been up close combat, however look at the numbers – VN (a low intensity conflict compared to priors) 1965 – 1971 for US combat participation – 55,000 dead US military.
Iraq 2003 -2011, a little over 5,000 dead US .
Many of the 5000 dead in Iraq were from IEDs also.
GWOT US casualties were relatively much lower because of improved body armor and faster than ever medical evacuation. Without those advantages a lot more would have been dead.
That’s why you see a lot of vets missing limbs from the GWOT. The body armor is protecting a lot of people who would have died in Vietnam. But their limbs are not protected. Hence, a lot of limb loss.
As everybody who has been around the military in any capacity should know, the average soldier is not a man of any particular scruples or intelligence, so the fact that Heinlein engaged in just that sort of Spartanesque teabagging of military men throughout his literary oeuvre would seem rather curious until you realize what kind of person he was. His very progressive GI generation was filled with whacky ideas about how to improve the world, and it’s not hard to see why the Warren Court and all the Civil Rights legislation was established by men who were themselves his contemporaries.… Read more »
Contrast with Frank Herbert lol.
Robert Heinlein, in his later books at least, showed himself to be a total sexual degenerate. Unfortunately the whole Science Fiction genre is filled with commies, leftists, degenerates and just plain assholes.
There is a really great book called The Last Fanatics by JD Cowan that does a great job of showing how left wing degenerates have undermined SF and used it to further their cause for generations. Anyone on the Dissident Right who also enjoys SF should check it out.
Heinlein’s stuff was so tongue-in-cheek it was often hard to tell where he was playing it straight and where he was poking fun, which from what I’ve seen was his intent. A true golden age sci-fi troll.
Now see I thought the movie did a good job with that feel.
Post-stroke Heinlein was a creep who fantasized about being pegged by his twin female clones in his later novels, but even his first (published posthumously) novel was a sexualized ripoff of Bellamy’s “Looking Backward.”
His writing after the mid-60s was poo. Sometimes interesting poo, but poo nonetheless. I can’t believe I used to like that guy.
When I think of a good, functioning, cohesive societies, mandatory military training and some time in the guard or reserves probably helps. The Swiss model makes the country next to impossible to conquer at and acceptable cost, while making internal coups dangerous too.
Of course to make it work, you’d need a homogeneous pool of men, which our cloud people are desperately against.
I tend to agree and have always called for mandatory service for all. Obviously, we can’t support a multimillion man army on duty, but a period of training for a few months would do a lot to wean our children from their mom’s teat. Shock treatment if you want to call it that. One benefit is that as one got over the initial psychological hurtle, they may actually like the service and opt to enlist for a longer term of service. The service as well might benefit as they could evaluate these new “recruits” an select the best of the… Read more »
I’ve written this here before, and I will again. Lindsey Graham drinks Bailey’s on the rocks. Served him several times years and years ago. That is all you need to know about him and his loafers 🙂
Wow. The favorite of high school girls everywhere.
Whoa, a girl I dated in late ‘86 immediately sprang to mind!
Strange, I would think a coconut liqueur would be a closer approximation to semen, at least in appearance.
Bloody hell….
but was he a good tipper?
Only inasmuch as he tried to get Eloi to fondle his tip.
He did not actually do the paying. His 35 year old (my guess) masculine but sharp dressed and good looking assistant filled out the slip (room charge). 20 plus percent tip. Amiable. But he reminded me of a southern gal getting her drink refreshed, hehe. That vague but polite insouciance.
Doesnt matter at all, but I correct myself, and I remember more vividly when I thought about it. He didn’t have the assitant fill it out. So he showed his paper to the assistant who read the amount, and Graham then filled it out. Clearly farsighted. And as to the Baileys- look, one time, sure, you may be hungover or want something light. But I served him on at least three distinct occasions (I think more), and it was the same every time.
The only place Baileys belongs, if at all, is in morning coffee
I appreciate the black sergeants who kept the blacks and whites from opening fire on each other.
Vietnam? Where’s that?
Political systems are only as good as the people making up those systems. Witness the attempts by Latin Americans to import institutions from the “Norte Americanos” as they the USA. In every case the wonderful constitutions were undermined by Latin American culture.
If a society selects for self reliant people willing to cooperate for the common good, you can have an American style “democracy”. Otherwise, people will gravitate to a patron/client system with abundant corruption
Someone once said: “The problem with Mexico is that it is full of Mexicans.”
The problem with Niger…
“Real life does not come with a floor.” Yet every paid female job (government, teacher, nurse, librarian) comes with a government guaranteed pension and annual raises and inflation increases. None of that is available in the private sector. After 30 years in the private sector so far, after multiple lay-offs (so far) and after another 15-20 years of working and saving, I hope to have a retirement fund sufficient for my wife and I. “Sustainability” is the buzz word the kids use these days, but I have no ability to fund anyone elses pension. Maybe Ukraine or Our Greatest Ally… Read more »
FNC1A1: “…people will gravitate to a patron/client system with abundant corruption.”
Government Husband for the girls;
Military government for the boys raised by those single moms;
Patron government for the Nu-Americans;
Paid mercenaries as the Elected class (the political industry.)
I thought nobody could be worse than eye-patch Dan. Then I looked up Brian Mast and saw him wearing his IDF uniform to Congress. This thing is a dumpster fire. We have Congressmen who wear the military uniform of foreign countries to Congress? We have a Sec. State who announces he is flying to a war zone, not as an American, but as a member of one of the two tribes involved in the ethnic conflict. That is bad enough. It is that nobody blinks an eye at any of it is the tell. Does anybody represent the nation that… Read more »
“These people are so absurd you almost wonder if they could really could come from obscurity or if they are all assets.”
It is the latter, obviously. Most “elected” leaders are part of the Fifth Column.
The USA started as a fairly loose league, a Republic, of the States in which the Presidential electors were chosen exclusively by the legislature, and the only voters were White men who owned property…The result was that serious men of stature ruled the country, giants of intellect and integrity…After Lincoln’s brutal war, the US gradually descended to the current multi-ethnic maelstrom with women holding the trump cards…Heinlein, while mixing quite a bit of satire in Starship Troopers, was projecting what he thought was the inevitable future resolution of this mess…rule by strong men and the military…
Speaking of a vassal state.
https://www.arthursido.com/2023/10/paying-tribute.html
The idiots of AINO have the rulers they deserve.
One of my income streams comes from reporting on college sports. Whenever I attend these sporting events–football is worse than basketball–my flickering faith in humanity comes ever closer to being extinguished. Most “Americans,” including whites, are worthless degenerates and clowns. I don’t know how bad it is in other white nations–although I’ve got a pretty good idea the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Australia, and New Zealand are just as bad or worse–but in AINO there is only a remnant of the population worthy of salvation. I put the percentage at 25.
As a vet, I will specifically not vote (if I still voted…) for a veteran who puts his/her veteran status front and center in their campaign. I know far too many veterans I would never vote for. To me, they all remind me of John Kerry’s acceptance speech when he got the party nomination. As for that floor Mr. Z-man mentions, it comes and goes. Right now, the Army and Navy (don’t know about the other branches) are pretty desperate to get and retain people. Just a few years ago though, they were finding all sorts of reasons to get… Read more »
The Air Force is going to punish people who report minor offenses. Looks like the Black Veterans Project is influencing this decision:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/10/09/marine-corps-starts-tracking-demographics-victims-of-low-level-offenses-part-of-justice-overhaul.html
Soros style approach to increasing retention and eliminating, “disparities.”
The tattered fabric of society has people grabbing ends and sprinting in opposite directions at this point.
So, the armed services will now keep track of ethnic demographics of the millions of smaller military infractions?
I feel like I can save everyone a lot of time: 90% of the write-ups will be given to “diverse or historically underrepresented persyns” = the military is rayciss.
Ugghh, yet another predictable, eye-rolling reason why the end is nigh. When I was in thirty years ago, I cannot recall one incident where the platoon got jammed up that wasn’t caused by a groid behaving like, well, a groid.
I’m so glad I’m out!
Yes! If simply having a job for a while in the military is the focus of your campaign, I’m not interested. I don’t introduce myself to people as a Veteran of a war 30 years ago. I’ve done other things since that mean more to present-day me (marriage, church, career…).
I will specifically not vote for a veteran who puts his/her veteran status front and center in their campaign
—
See also: religion (“the more he spoke of his virtue…”)
There’s no floor in the military .
Never was.
Mind you there’s many many more PC trap doors.
Whenever I heard someone raving about alcohol and DUIs you knew it was an alcoholic.
Starship a troopers was published in 1959, a very different America.
Most males had also fought in either World War — or both, in the case of Eisenhower.
I can see why Heinlein thought it would work….even tho many of his troopers were Third World.
Exactly. In Heinlein’s day, we basically had a Citizen army with a very limited regular Army. Even the Washington Post admits that 80% of retired generals work in the MIC. The Navy has more admirals than it does ships.
> The military does not restrict itself to citizens, as military service is one way to win citizenship. Due to the lack of white men joining the ranks, the military is now looking to recruit foreigners. Despite this, the majority of military personnel (and the *overwhelming* super-majority of living veterans) are white males. > They have many other representatives in the imperial congress, but only Brian Mast wears the uniform of the Israeli military to work every day. And only Brian Mast wore the American uniform as well. In fact, the same tribe that is over-represented in the Ivey League… Read more »
Mr. Generic: ” . . . the majority of military personnel (and the *overwhelming* super-majority of living veterans) are white males.”
Not so.
The racial demographics of the US military in 2023 are as follows123:
White: 52.4% – 53.6%
Hispanic or Latino: 17.6% – 19.6%
Black or African American: 15.3% – 20.3%
Asian: 5.8% – 7.0%
American Indian and Alaska Native: 0.6% – 0.9%
Unknown/Other: 0.6% – 6.3%
If you are a white male and are seeking to join the U.S. Military today, you must have an IQ as small as you shoe size.
Both comments miss the mark. We have, as other modern militaries, a long “tooth to tail”. I once read it took about 9 in the rear to support one at the front. You can have the appearance of “predominantly White” if you look only at the “ground pounders and door kickers”. Also the “White” category contains both males and females. I immediately exclude females as being worthless in combat, thus the front line (all I care about) is exceedingly weakened. Finally, the stat’s on numbers of Blacks reminds me of the Korean conflict where Blacks were (initially) segregated. Those units—entire… Read more »
“American veterans are far superior as leaders, workers, and voters than the broader public as a whole”
I 100% disagree.
This is what they want us to believe to keep us voting for the McStains of the world. Morally bankrupt conmen and grifters.
Retired Inside-the-Beltway O-6 here. And … I don’t think Z is entirely wrong. Actually, the longer I’m out, the more I’m inclined to think he’s correct. The modern military environment is, as one analyst at a think-thank observed, the world’s most successful socialist exercise. DoD is the department of government, in that everything government does is replicated in miniature in DoD: schools, retail, infrastructure, HHS, etc etc. – all externally funded and supported, of course. Now, that’s not to say I think that’s inherently bad, but … it does produce a type of servant mentality, which largely explains the reported… Read more »
“But it made making personal choices after I retired kind of difficult – I was used to being told what to do.”
I’ve seen this with perhaps the majority of ex-military I’ve known: they need to be given orders. And some guys really are better off in that situation. It doesn’t seem good for independent, innovative thinking (outside the box), self-motivation and self-(rather than imposed from above)discipline, however. Although to be fair, other ex-military I know are true swashbucklers and have lived remarkable lives since their service days!
“Despite all the patriotic blather, the American military is composed of mercenaries. They structure their pay to attract the types of people they need. The military does not restrict itself to citizens, as military service is one way to win citizenship. Due to the lack of white men joining the ranks, the military is now looking to recruit foreigners. The fact is the relationship between the institution and the soldier is purely transactional.” This is true at the upper reaches as well (colonel and above). When they retire they have a revolving door relationship with the military-industrial complex, which is… Read more »
Eisenhower, whether you like him or not as a president, saw the dangers of the MIC coming, but didn’t seem to have any idea of how to stop it. There were a lot of problems with the top brass even then, but they hadn’t yet devolved to total prostitution. “Mad Dog” Mattis’ betrayal was the last straw for respect for military leaders for many on the right.
In retrospect, Trump appointing Mattis to be SECDEF was the first sign of his fundamental lack of understanding of how DC works. Trump saw in Mattis some maverick warfighter, but what he didn’t understand was that Mattis was first and foremost an organization man, because if he wasn’t, he would have never been in a position to be in a position of influence. Mattis was never going to buck the system that made him, nor would any other retired GOFO.
Maybe Flynn…but the deep state deep sixed him
The suspicion also is that the “warrior monk” AKA Mad Dog, was gay. He was a preck either way you look at it. Disobeyed Trump’s orders to leave Syria.
I don’t think Ike was a visionary about the MIC (or the SIC). He was describing the state of affairs that had already come to exist. And since, has only grown and consolidated. Meanwhile, people who don’t know any better fear a takeover by his “prophesied” MIC which had already happened. At least Ike cared (I guess) and was willing to name it, once he no longer needed its support and was no longer in a position to do anything about it.
Yeah. Ike spent eight years putting it into place, and then he decided to warn us about it. Thanks a lot.
Don’t do us any favors, Ike!
I grok you Z Man.
A Heinlein statement: “Democracy can survive anything except Democrats”.
As a corollary I would also add… and more than a few Republicans (insert pics of Graham, McCain).
On the military, courtesy of Albert Nock: Another neighbor…kept a great stand of bees. I remember his incessant drumming on a tin pan to marshal them when they were swarming, and myself as idly wondering who first discovered that this was the thing to do, and why the bees should fall in with this. It struck me that if the bees were as intelligent as bees are cracked up to be, instead of mobilizing themselves for old man Reynolds’ benefit, they would sting him soundly and fly off about their business. I always think of this when I see a… Read more »
Nock and Mencken. We’ll ne’er see their like again, unfortunately.
Basic Training is the reason. Western militaries use the old Europe Aristocrat (Officer Corps) and Serf (Enlisted Corps) model. Basic Training teaches the serfs to be more afraid of aristocrats than the enemy, so when it is time to charge a pike line of opposing serfs, they will do it on the basis of their conditioning to be more afraid of what is behind them than the weapons arrayed in front of them. It may sound a bit hyperbolic, but that is how it works. People like to wonder what happened to the European male population after World War II,… Read more »
IMHO McCain was put out there to die by his fellow airmen, 2 weeks after he killed 100 sailors on his carrier by firing off a rocket accidentally and the brass wouldn’t punish him.
Good point, though he got back at them. A very reputable reporter (I think it was Sidney Schanberg; it’s referenced in one of Ron Unz’s columns in unz.com, “America’s Tokyo Rose”) accused McCain of colluding with the brass to conceal the POWs still being held in Viet Nam. Nixon did NOT want to pay the reparations Hanoi demanded to release them, so our government abandoned them to die.
There’s good reason to believe there were still about 2,000 American POWs over there as late as the early 1980s. Hard to say what became of them. Deals were made, bargains struck, men sacrificed.
Recently, from the Democrats who call themselves leftists on the internet, there’s been a coordinated-seeming effort to educate their followers that the entire post-Vietnam POW/MIA “phenomenon” was a Republican psy-op. The lie isn’t the just usual Democrat line that bad thing = Republican voters. (Every POW/MIA flag guy I ever knew was, to put it mildly, anti-GOP.) The lie that they’re elevating to an axiom is that never in history has there been any such thing as a living soldier left stranded or captive anywhere on earth—ever. “The right” made that up. Why? To so enrich the fantasy life of… Read more »
I have read stories of McCain’s unfathomably rude treatment of POW families who came to Washington, D.C. to fight for the return of their dads, sons, husbands, and brothers. He continually put up roadbloacks to their efforts, when he should have been their biggest cheerleader. Hell just ain’t hot enough for that spoiled little bastard.
I suppose that this leads to the ultimate question: What form of government is best (or can work long-term at all)? All systems have their flaws, and, in the end, it appears that no system works best since, if it did, we’d be using it. Governments reflect their people, and, particularly, the elite. As such, they change over time – for good or bad. I’d say that the Founders set up a pretty good and clever system. The vast majority of power went to the states and only land-owning me (people with long-term skin in the system) were allowed to… Read more »
If only landowning YOU is allowed to vote, that would make the citizen of a very silly country indeed!
(Sorry, it’s all in good fun. I probably type more clerical errors here than anyone else, but I just couldn’t resist that.)
In order to have a chance it has to start with homogeneity. Races were not meant to intermingle. Even in today’s most tech advanced society, we see the proof that multi racial societies cannot get along. No matter the privileges granted to the minority group, it will never be enough and “racism” will be used to explain away any and all differences in life outcomes. It has never worked and will never work. As far as “democracy” goes, most people already know it doesn’t work, they have just been brainwashed to believe it does their entire lives. The same normie… Read more »
Universal white male suffrage was in place by the 1820s and 30s. In truth, the founders’ vision barely outlasted their own lifetimes.
Hear this from veterans who’ve never read S.T. “We should have mandatory conscription to get the kids to shape up, understand martial values, etc.” Are we talking about the 1920’s military, the 1940’s, or the 2020’s? Today’s recruits have “yellow cards” and “red cards” so they can get a “time out” when a drill sergeant makes them feel sad. We did this with universal collage and public school in general. To do it, the institutions were dumbed down so much they’re now uniformly ultra-left, foster a culture of dependency, and produce something almost worthless. —– The real unspeakable thing is… Read more »
I think the initial concept of White, property-owning men was basically correct. I’d probably insist on married with some number of children as an additional criterion. The challenge is that a democratic system desires votes. And it will, therefore, have a great incentive to create votes by giving more people votes to cast. This is hardly a new problem as, for example, the NYC machine had been enthusiastically recruiting Irish immigrants and making them citizens *so that* they could vote for them at least since the 1850s. I mean, look: the entire system was complete crap almost since the very… Read more »
btp: The Covington books, as I recall, described a system where every citizen (who by definition had to be White and have put in 2 years of some sort of community service – military, farming, etc.) got one vote. Marriage meant another vote, women with multiple children got an extra vote, etc. Sounded okay in theory but would probably prove over wieldy in real life. Biggest indicator of success was that they started with a White ethno-nationalist electorate and only certain issues were eligible for voting. Anything seriously important was not decided by votes.
“Anything seriously important was not decided by votes.”
They aren’t now. It is just Not Our People ramming their destructive policies down our white throats.
3g4me – agree. I think the problem to be solved is straightforward:
Rulers rule by getting votes. How to get votes?
1. Appeal to this set of voters who have skin in the game
2. Make new voters
And the rulers have been importing lots of voters this entire time. One thing a monarchy with a small killer elite solves is that it creates a system where the incentive is to restrict the franchise. But, like with everything, scale is a problem.
Property owning as a prerequisite for voting in the modern Era I think would exclude a lot of people who still have a good notion of daily sacrifice for the system. I would suggest that only tax paying citizens should be able to vote. That’s the modern day equivalent of “skin in the game”. If Tyrone and shaniqua live off the taxes we pay to support them so be it…but you don’t get to have a say in how we’re governed as a nation. If you’re working to pay taxes then you get to vote. If not, then you’re just… Read more »