The Long Collapse

Note: Our good friend Ed Dutton has a new book titled, The Naked Classroom: The Evolutionary Psychology of Your Time at School. While watching paint dry I intend to read it and post up a review this week. Please but two copies, one for yourself and one for a friend or family member.


Note: Behind the green door I have a post titled Eloi, Morlocks and the Cable Guy, a post titled Missing The Executioner, and the Sunday podcast. You can sign up for a green door account at SubscribeStar or Substack.


Societal collapse is a topic that has always had a following, especially on this side of the great divide, despite the fact that there are no signs of it. You can point to current trends and say they could one day lead to collapse, something like the systemic abuse of the money supply or the degradation of the American military. On the other hand, liberal democracies have shown an ability to self-correct. The money supply and the military were a mess in the 1970’s until they were fixed.

The closest we have come to witnessing the collapse of a complex society was the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Over a thirty-year period, the member nations of the communist bloc had slowly integrated their economies and military, under the umbrella the communist world, so when these countries broke free, what followed was a period of chaos that eventually spread to Russia itself. The 1990’s were a dark time in Russia, marked by lawlessness and social chaos.

Even so, these countries that made up the the communist world did not disintegrate after the fall of the Soviet Union. The captive nations quickly reoriented themselves economically and politically toward the West. Russia had a dark period of chaos and confusion, but eventually regained itself. In other words, these societies did not collapse, even though the political-economy collapsed. They simply had to refashion their economics and politics, which they did.

Another example might be Iraq after the United States toppled Saddam. The main reason Iraq fell into chaos and the American military had to fight a guerilla war to gain control of the country was the old system collapsed. Of course, that would not have happened if not for the thousands of tons of explosive dropped on the country by the American military. It was more of a self-controlled demolition more than a collapse of a complex society in the Joseph Tainter sense of the phrase.

The coming year may provide some examples that are not quite what Tainter described, but not quite like the recent examples either. Ukraine, for example, seems to be on the cusp of collapse after two long years of war. The political class is in turmoil, leading many to predict a coup against Zelensky. The army is running out of men and material to hold back the Russians. Both Europe and Washington are now slow-walking future aid due to the growing problems in the country.

It is possible that we see something like Iraq, where a guerilla army forms up after the regular army collapses. The Bandera elements could try to seize power, leading to a civil war between them and other factions. The minority groups in the West could see this as a chance to gain their freedom. The term Carpatho-Ruthenian could start appearing in Western media. There could also be a general collapse of civil order, including the operation of the infrastructure.

Unlike Iraq, there is a sidecar to this that bears watching. For two years much of the political class in the West has been convinced that Ukraine just needs to hold the line, as the Russians will eventually collapse. This was the prediction made at the start by the neocons who control Western foreign policy. We are seeing some glimpses of politicians waking up to reality. No one knows what will happen when reality comes rushing in like a winter wind blowing open the door.

It is not just a credibility issue here. Hundreds of billions of booty have been promised by those politicians to powerful interests. For example, Blackrock has been buying up land rights in Ukraine, expecting a Ukraine victory. What happens when the new Ukraine government repudiates these deals? No one really knows how much money has changed hands on the assumption that Western oligarchs will get to plunder the place after the Ukrainians defeat the Russians.

It is easy to forget that the imaginary world in which our rulers operate is their reality, so when that reality slams into genuine reality, there will be consequences. We tend to think of collapse in terms of practical things not working but collapse also applies to narrative frameworks and beliefs. For over thirty years the Global American Empire has rested on the assumptions that arise from being an invisible force. When that premise is no longer valid, there will be consequences.

Of course, there are important elections coming in the next year. The most significant of which is un the United States. The only Ukraine skeptic is Donald Trump, who could be forced off the ticket for that reason. People forget that Trump’s primary crime against the regime, as far as the regime is concerned, is his opposition to the neocons. They slimed him with the Russian collusion hoax and then impeached him over Ukraine. A collapse of Ukraine will add some spice to this already spicy stew.

If they do force Trump off the ballot, that means the candidates in the general election will be Ukraine fanatics controlled by the neocons. Imagine the 2008 election was between John McCain and John Bolton, against the backdrop of the Iraq fiasco and you have a glimpse of a possible future. If on the other hand Trump is on the ballot, imagine him pounding away at this every day until election day. It is possible that 2024 makes 2016 look like a debate at the philatelic society.

Closer to home, in the dissident sphere, a weird subculture has developed around Ukraine and the war. This debate provides a nice summary of their beliefs. It is as if the people in that pro-Ukraine subculture were given a potion by the neocons that causes them to repeat all of their most absurd claims, without realizing they are parroting the people they claim to oppose. If Ukraine collapses, we could witness something similar to what happened with the Seekers in this famous study.

Failure has consequences and collapse is a form of failure. Unlike a typo or a math error, collapse takes with it whole systems of thought and belief because it is the result of those systems and beliefs. Maybe all of this is avoided, and Ukraine bumps along to some new arrangements that avoids a catastrophe. That is something Tainter observed about the modern age. Collapse is much more difficult because all human systems are interconnected, so they have external support.

Ukraine will provide a test of that in 2024. Russia does not want collapse, as that just makes their task more difficult. The Poles do not want millions more Ukrainian refugees, so they do not want collapse. There are forces withing Ukraine that would like a soft landing, even if it means capitulating to Russia. Maybe Tainter is right, and the structure of the West will prevent collapse. On the other hand, the failure of Project Ukraine is just one step in the collapse of the West.


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Brio
Brio
4 months ago

Money problems in the 70s may have been resolved, but they weren’t $31 trillion in arears.

Hokkoda
Member
4 months ago

Sometimes I just shake my head when people say “The collapse is coming! Any day now!” The collapse has already happened. We have a Government that is now openly targeting and jailing its political opposition using criminal charges that are questionable at best or just plain fake. They have invented absurd crimes to prosecute Trump, and J6 protesters who were escorted around the Capitol by police (who were friendly and chatty) are rotting in prison. Cop a plea or back to solitary! There are cities in this country that are so far gone as to not resemble anything American. Absolute… Read more »

miforest
miforest
4 months ago

hey don’t forget the other neocon project . send this link to all your friends and watch the hanity fans heads explode. Qutar and Isreal funded Hamas .

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Guest
Guest
4 months ago

Apparently, military morale is collapsing, as blessings of diversity are bestowed on the US military.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12855869/army-tiktok-mutiny-gen-z-recruits.html

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Guest
4 months ago

Age old enlisted man gripes just waiting for a social media platform to be vented on

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Guest
4 months ago

Many more articles in a similar vein have been collected in the second half of Simplicius76’s latest post:

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/more-afu-downers-from-the-press-mill

Whiskey
Whiskey
4 months ago

Collapse is now rapid, ongoing, and irreversible. We are now at war with Iran/Yemen, over the Houthis blockade of the Suez Canal / Red Sea. Expect at least one sunken carrier. Collapse. The Pope has basically made Gay Marriage a Catholic Sacrament. Collapse. The Draft is coming. Don’t be fooled, Lloyd Austen does not make that sort of threat without there having been months of planning for just that — drafting of White guys (probably up to age 60 and run like Ukraine — vibrants in vans abducting White dudes for the Russian Front). Collapse. There is a new movie… Read more »

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Whiskey
4 months ago

Whiskey, Bro, we were all worried to death that we had lost you to Hamas, somewhere there in Gaza.

Apparently y’all are sending the children into battle as though they were seasoned officers:

https://tinyurl.com/5ce4pw4x

PS: I can’t kkk0mment on LloydGr0id & the draft without Phed P0asting.

Sorry.

I’ll just hafta keep muh mouf shut about dat topic.

NO. PHED. P0ASTING.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Whiskey
4 months ago

My prediction for 2024 is that bringing back the draft in the USSA will result in the most epic comedy goldmine of all time.

Stock up on popcorn accordingly.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Whiskey
4 months ago

In Iraq and Afghanistan, for whatever reason, they outsourced the mess halls to private contractors. (KBR/Halliburton). Doesn’t seem so hard to do for stateside mess halls. Or are they having the same problem as restaurants everywhere and not able to hire people?

Dinodoxy
Dinodoxy
Reply to  Whiskey
4 months ago

Don’t be fooled, Lloyd Austen does not make that sort of threat without there having been months of planning for just that

You fear the planning and stragery of a bloated vibrant?

Wiffle
Wiffle
Reply to  Whiskey
4 months ago

Good news – the Pope did no such thing. I highly recommend anyone who cares read the document themselves. The rest I cannot vouch for.

Nick Nolte's Mugshot
Nick Nolte's Mugshot
4 months ago

Over the weekend I saw a story about a crane being moved into place to start dismantling the civil war reconciliation monument at Arlington National Cemetery today. The monument was dedicated by Calvin Coolidge. I missed it when it happened but it seems that for some reason that I can’t fathom, Congress, including 41 Republicans, voted to remove it. I guess the current Federal government’s position is that the civil war is still ongoing. Will the military start attacking targets in the former Confederacy? This country is just getting too weird.

Juri
Juri
Reply to  Nick Nolte's Mugshot
4 months ago

This is the brain dead regime agony. In Ukraine they also take down Russian monuments because they don,t know how to stop collapse. When they cant fight on Russian Army, at least they can fight with Tchaikovsky who is dead 130 years but monument still standing. 1945 Hitler spent hours with Albert Speer discussing how to rebuild Germany after the victory. In that time, nobody in Germany had no ideas anymore how to win. And in the Soviet Union, in the very end propaganda reached unlimited heights because this was all they had left. This war with monuments is actually… Read more »

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Juri
4 months ago

Juri: “…at least they can fight with Tchaikovsky who is dead 130 years but monument still standing…”

Tchaikovsky’s 2nd Symphony is known as the “Little Russian” symphony.

“Little Russia” being a nickname for Ukraine, which, in turn, is a nickname for Khazaria.

Gergiev conducting…

https://tinyurl.com/3sdvdk55

===============

Juri: “Comrade Stalin did not fought with monuments, he had better ideas what to do with disobedient people.”

This is why we venerate him as SAINT Joseph Djugashvili.

cg2
cg2
Reply to  Bourbon
4 months ago

Nice link. That’s Putin on bassoon

Filthie
Filthie
Member
4 months ago

I dunno Z. One of the curious things I am seeing is a distinct similarity between present day America and pre-collapse Soviet Union: useless old geezers in positions of real power. In the Soviet Union it used to be that guys like you and I would be considered men. Anyone under the age of 40 would be considered a boy. Mature men, suitable for serious leadership were in their 70s. Watching the antics of Biden, Pelosi, McConnel, Graham, the Clintons and the Obuttholes… yeesh…. they have amassed so much money and power by bankrupting the kids that we can never… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Filthie
4 months ago

I do like today’s theme, though;

That interconnectedness is actually resiliant redundancy, an ugly sausage rather than an exploding mess.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
4 months ago

p.s.- found on Battle Beagle:

“As it is, “lol gfy” is the correct response to the govt”

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
4 months ago

“The Deep State can’t control us without electricity.” ~ often noted I’d say the Globalist Deep State, the militarized BankCorp economy (with NATO/Navy as world police) can win. The hill at least, for a time. 1. A cyber event mimicking an EMP as the nuclear strike. (It makes a real EMP by a contending power irrelevant.) 2. Illegals Army as the mop-up forces for an already balkanized nation (Demographically, culturally, 15 minute city zonas, take your pick). So something new is being born, a jigsaw assembly from the pieces of the old. Steered? More like too many backseat passengers lunging… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Alzaebo
4 months ago

Erik Prince says there are Iranian cells in AINO major cities ready to go Oct. 7 here in the event of war with Iran. That would bring down martial law instantly, with which I’ve no doubt the population would eagerly comply.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Mr. Zoar, this reminds me of the Middle Eastern style of fighting. They don’t go directly to it; both sides take turns kicking the old lady in the street to show who’s tougher. A bit longish, but from my web notes: The contrived antisemitism / Palestinian protest crisis is basically BLM, but this time with Muslims. “The fake antisemitism lawsuits against US universities are led by the law firm of Trump’s ex-amb to Israel, David Friedman The firm has registered as a foreign agent of an Israeli It also represented co-defendants of Ihor Kolomoisky,… ——– David Friedman is also a… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Jeffrey Zoar: We have cells of cartels in every big AINO city. We have Chinese police stations, for f**k’s sake. Of course there are Iranian cells.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
4 months ago

p.s.- I don’t think they’ll “pull it” for the 2024 election. They’re leaking CyberEvent 201 and are flooding our nations with the huddled masses for the implied threat.

Like nuclear MAD, the implied threat will be enough.

We know and they know they could if they wanted. A domestic “military exercise”, a show of arms.

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
Reply to  Alzaebo
4 months ago

I agree. to an extent. I dunno about ‘the army of illegals’ though. Those guys are mostly low IQ, low skill human trash. The US military is actively selecting for them especially in leadership positions and has the laughable results to show for it. I personally think the looming financial and societal collapse are going to herald a return to seriousness and a lot of those guys and the clowns are going to go away – if they know what’s good for them. A lot of these leftist govts are going to start falling soon too. We are in for… Read more »

Wiffle
Wiffle
4 months ago

Thank you for noticing the insanity of a certain Internet group when it comes to the Ukraine. I absolutely believe there are pro-Nazi groups in the Ukraine working for Jewish billionaires, thanks to them. It appears people are so desperate to belong to any group that any intellectual pap straight from the groups they claim to hate is acceptable. Ukraine’s Z man is an actual Jew with dual citizenship privileges. He’s an installed puppet and by trade an actor. Putin is an ethnic Russian who has had to work with global powers for decades. But it’s Putin that’s the secret… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Wiffle
4 months ago

It’s a turf battle between mafia families. Chabad Moscow is fighting with the bigger Chabad Lubavitch (East/West).

Putin’s just trying to get the rest of his passengers through Scylla and Charybdis while the flagships duke it out.

Vizzini
Member
4 months ago

“In other words, these societies did not collapse, even though the political-economy collapsed.”

The chunk of terrain that used to be Yugoslavia might disagree with that assessment.

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Vizzini
4 months ago

The Spanish Civil War comes to mind too. Yeah it kinda worked out eventually but with no Franco they may well still be killing each other over there.

steve w
steve w
Reply to  Vizzini
4 months ago

In hindsight, Yugoslavia made no sense. It was a patchwork of cultures and religions with deep rivalries and hatreds. Under the rule of a strongman, Tito, Yugoslavia seemed to “work”. The truth is that no one in that country (except maybe the Apparat) identified as “Yugoslav”. They were Serbs, Bosnians, Slovenians, Croatians, Montenegrans… even Romanians and Greeks. My point is that Yugoslavia was never really a coherent “society” and its collapse was entirely predictable once the pressure of authoritarian rule was relaxed.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  steve w
4 months ago

It was a patchwork of cultures and religions with deep rivalries and hatreds.

Hmm. What other country you can think of is a patchwork of cultures and religions with deep rivalries and hatreds?

Vizzini
Member
4 months ago

“The money supply and the military were a mess in the 1970’s until they were fixed.”

The money supply wasn’t fixed. It was a can that was kicked down the road. Now we’re down the road.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Vizzini
4 months ago

I’m willing to bet that not only can they kick it again, but that there are specific plans for how to do so. That we aren’t able to predict any more than someone in 1965 could have predicted the petrodollar. Although I have ideas.

Cloudswrest
Cloudswrest
4 months ago

“Ukraine will provide a test of that in 2024. Russia does not want collapse, as that just makes their task more difficult. The Poles do not want millions more Ukrainian refugees, so they do not want collapse.”

Indeed, but do George Soros, and or the Neocons, want collapse? That is the question.

ray
ray
4 months ago

‘On the other hand, liberal democracies have shown an ability to self-correct. The money supply and the military were a mess in the 1970’s until they were fixed.’ 1970s America was run by men, and the smaller towns mostly by Christian men. That nation was so superior in almost every way to current Amerika that words fail me. Modern America is run by women and various tribes, most of whom strive to obliterate the last vestiges of 1970s (and prior) America. So far, they’ve been massively successful at their goals. There is dissent, surely, but I see no ‘self-correction’ whatsoever.… Read more »

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  ray
4 months ago

Top comment. Women are wonderful in so many ways, but you notice that the nations that are cleaning our clock at the moment have no women anywhere near the reins of power.

ray
ray
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

I notice, and so do those nations. You see what Pootin does to FEMEN when their coven sets foot upon his land. Makes a show of it too. FEMEN is based in Ukraine, btw.

Women are very fine indeed. Provided they are not encouraged and funded to become men/masculine, and provided they are restricted from all civil and church position and power.

If they aren’t restricted, evil elements use tested, mass methods to co-opt them collectively. Those Fine Women then destroy all that is good, while shouting of their oppression.

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
4 months ago

“despite the fact that there are no signs of it.” I don’t know why you’re saying this unless you’re trying to provoke some animated responses. You yourself have written about the decline and imminent fall of the GAE several times. True, you haven’t quite said the USA will collapse internally because of loss of the empire, but it could follow as a consequence. “You can point to current trends and say they could one day lead to collapse, something like the systemic abuse of the money supply or the degradation of the American military. On the other hand, liberal democracies… Read more »

Juri
Juri
Reply to  Arshad Ali
4 months ago

When Soviet union went down, I was 16 so I remember this day well. On the evening of 18th august 1991 we all went to sleep with knowledge that Soviet Union is in bad shape but nothing catastrophic in sight so it will last years or even decades. Yet next morning we had tanks on the streets and after 3 day mess, 73 years of madness was gone. US with its enormous financial sector and very little producing is much more vulnerable. Stock market and financial system may blow off at any moment. When shortages kick in, local Governments are… Read more »

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
Reply to  Juri
4 months ago

You’ve probably read Orlov’s “The Collapse Gap” but I’ll post the link anyway:

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2006-12-04/closing-collapse-gap-ussr-was-better-prepared-collapse-us/

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Arshad Ali
4 months ago

I have this notion that a hegemonic fiat currency like the USD should (more or less) keep working as long as the population keeps increasing. But when population declines, trouble.

That is, assuming competent people are running it, which seems more in question all the time.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Yikes. Ponzi schemes have a terrible record.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Arshad Ali
4 months ago

I sometimes play a little “collapse game” with my immediate surroundings. I imagine what will happen if/when the paychecks stop or lose all value. In the case of my neighborhood we have a bunch of ugly, Soviet-style 6-8 floor slab apartments dressed up as ghetto art-deco – ghetto-deco? In the first month after the music stops I can see: 1) Probably the only blessing to expect: the obnoxious Pajeets who are now like 65% of the neighborhood self-deport back to India realizing that of all the various AINO races, the only one that doesn’t hate them is… themselves. 2) The… Read more »

Zulu Juliet
Zulu Juliet
4 months ago

Z-man gives too much credit to democracies self-correcting. That may have been the case when democracies were homogenous societies with high trust. These new “democracies” are corrupt rackets ruling over a polyglot of people who dislike each other. I got an earful of unreality this weekend listening to a Hoover Institute podcast about standing up to China. The two “experts” insisted that the US can’t back down in the Mideast, or Ukraine or Taiwan, (or North Korea) all while admitting that the US military is on its ass, with too few ships, too few munitions, too few men, and no… Read more »

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  Zulu Juliet
4 months ago

$33.9 Billion national debt today.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Zulu Juliet
4 months ago

“These new “democracies” are corrupt rackets ruling over a polyglot of people who dislike each other.”

So they do reflect the people lol.

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
4 months ago

Heh.

Sure, from a practical (technological) perspective things still work – although a bit less well.

The real story is the moral and religious collapse, which has happened very rapidly. And it is continuing, as far as I can see it. I mean, what good is it if ChatGPT can do you programming day job for you as you sit at home on a couch; when a thousand Tyrones hoot and holler outside and some dementia patient is The Prez?

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  OrangeFrog
4 months ago

Spot on. Josiah Lippincott is on fire on this today.
https://amgreatness.com/2023/12/18/world-war-iii-is-not-possible/

His substack ‘Regime Critic’ is solid. Another lion heart is on our side.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  RealityRules
4 months ago

Wow that was a good read. Western governments are fundamentally committed to the dismantling of the nation state. Unsurprisingly not everyone is onboard with that idea. And ppl like us are the most in flat disagreement with it

Eloi
Eloi
4 months ago

Is Z’s comment sincere on Dutton’s book? Seems like an interesting read over the break. Or am I missing some snark in his comment? Genuine question, for I follow absolutely no other political commentary site than this, so names such as Dutton and Derbyshire are only, for me, heard here, and I know nothing about their output and can easily miss sarcasm.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  Eloi
4 months ago

Derbyshire is the original curmudgeon from whom the Zman will take the torch from someday. He was famously fired from National Review for publishing “The Talk” in another publication which had some eminently practical talk about racial realities in America. He’s been doing a podcast forever, has a great British accent (he’s a naturalized US citizen), speaks Chinese, is a solid mathematician, and like Jared Taylor, is a complete gentleman. Main topic is immigration but he also covers other things. Buy a used copy of his book “We are Doomed”. It’s great. Dutton is a bit of a youtube personality.… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  ProZNoV
4 months ago

ProZNoV: I don’t share many people’s sky-high opinion of
Derbyshire. And I think Zman is already a far better and more interesting thinker.

3 Pipe Problem
3 Pipe Problem
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Derb’s a good listen, but he has a lotta the CivNat still in him.

Hercules
Hercules
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Perhaps, but Derb did get his a** kicked by Bruce Lee, so he’s got that going for him, which is nice.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Fair enough.

Derb really showed me how gutless the entire NRO/Republican “conservative” apparatus was when they dumped him like a hot rock over “The Talk” article. Whole party beyond redemption ever since.

He’s never apologized for it either, so good for him.

Maus
Maus
Reply to  Eloi
4 months ago

Hullo, Hullo, Hullo… Well, Zman just moved homes; so I’d bet that the comment about watching paint dry is literally true. Why would he urge the purchase of two copies, if his crypto-message was that he’d be taking down Dutton’s book with a “damning with faint praise” review? While Zman doesn’t strike me as subscribing to Charles Haywood’s dictum of No Enemies On The Right; he has mentioned on more than one occasion that if he strongly disagrees with someone, he usually remains silent about them. Ed Dutton is not shy. He’s very clear about his views and opinions. If… Read more »

Robbo
Robbo
4 months ago

I disagree that collapse won’t happen. Au contraire, I don’t see how it can be long-delayed. Sure, as Adam Smith, said, there is indeed a lot of ruin in a nation. However, the rot in our Western societies is simply do deep and on too many levels to guarantee any lengthy breathing space. Also, the rebirth of Russia after 1991 and Germany after 1945 are not good examples. These places, despite their horrific suffering, still had some kind of a unified culture and history. Russia had a strong Christian sub-culture that communist couldn’t destroy. What do we have? Nothing at… Read more »

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

Of course, Christ is the way.

On the subject of collapse, I do believe that various parts of The System have collapsed or are collapsing. But, the sheer scale and inter-connectedness of The System means that, overall, no collapse is seen.

Then, when another part of The System gets better, it picks up the weight of another faltering part. It just seems to me like that is what’s happening…

Naturally, this means a proper collapse will take a long time and require a lot of Evil. But Evil is on the rise.

ray
ray
Reply to  OrangeFrog
4 months ago

Christ is the way. And at last He is putting on His war clothes. Halle-lu-Jah!

Biblically based America endured well given that its ‘elite’ rarely were Christian, and its modern elite were/are anti-Christian.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  OrangeFrog
4 months ago

I don’t see parts of the system getting better. Where ever you look there is chaos and corruption.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

Regardless of what it looks like, “Collapse” is not going to save us from SJWs. (abandon the word “woke”) The only way to defeat them is to physically defeat them and removing them from power. Why would anyone believe “collapse” is going to save them from SJWs/Wokeness anyway? “Collapse” is far more likely to defeat us than it is to defeat them. They are the wealthy connected elite who control most of the levers of power in the country.

Winter
Winter
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
4 months ago

“‘Collapse’ is far more likely to defeat us than it is to defeat them. They are the wealthy connected elite who control most of the levers of power in the country.”

You may be correct in your assessment, but we should never forget that history is littered with stories of powerful elites who were dragged from their palaces and slaughtered while the masses cheered.

Will that happen here? It seems unlikely. But of course, it always seems unlikely until it actually happens.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

I don’t consider the rebirth of these lands in the same terms as post-war Germany or post-communism Russia. You’ve outlined the reasons why things can’t be the same. It’s a fool’s errand to try to predict what will rise from the ashes, but in general it will be more local in scope and there will be some blood shed, otherization, and forced migration on the road to the eventual solution.

Tarl Cabot
Tarl Cabot
4 months ago

FWIW, my theory on the pro-Ukraine DR is that it’s mostly homosexuals who don’t like the Orthodox character of Russian “imperialism”. They are Ok with Blood and Soil (no pun intended), but Throne and Altar would cramp their style.

Mr. Generic
Mr. Generic
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
4 months ago

This is why sexual deviants (along with women) should never be included as leaders or representatives of any kind of movement. They simply cannot be trusted. Our ancestors knew this.

Valley Lurker
Valley Lurker
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
4 months ago

Great point considering the Ukies were rolling out a literal bloodthirsty tranny because of course they were.

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
4 months ago

Itsth thosthe Hugo Bossth uniformsth, they’re just too faaaabulous dahhhling.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
4 months ago

All countries go through cycles of death and rebirth. What keeps them in-tact during this process was as Pat Buchanan described as “blood and soill” which sounded far too Neo-Nazi for the DC area to digest. But he was simply remarking on thousands of years of history. Since our secular religion puts the year zero at 1960 with the election of JFK, and events before that, however important, considered ancient, this concept has been completely shut out of our brains. Instead we have opted for another ancient systemic model, that of Babylon. A country of strangers engaging in commerce. The… Read more »

Maxda
Maxda
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

That’s what I was hinting at below. If Poland collapses, the Poles just make a new one. If the U.S. collapses, there’s no telling how ugly it gets or what emerges.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Maxda
4 months ago

Wow, yes, great minds think alike. The benefit of being on Pacific time is that everything important has already been said before I even wake up.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

I’m pretty sure year zero is 1945. This is why they can never shut up about you know who. The founding myth is how we all came together and defeated the Nazis.

OTOH, it may be more accurate to say year zero is context specific and quite flexible. It could be 1865, 1913, 1945, 1965 etc depending on which one serves The Narrative best in whatever the context happens to be.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
4 months ago

1945 is a good chalk like to draw, but to these people culture is more important than winning wars, it’s “all about the music.” You have to pick the point where our society became permanently juvenile.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

Indeed. Was America really much worse in 1964 than it was in 1946? Not particularly. Was it much worse in 1969 than it was in 1964? Not only yes but hell yes.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

I’m gonna say 2016-2021 or thereabouts was another 5 year change of comparable scope

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
4 months ago

If you read the book “The Cultural Cold War – The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters” by Frances Stonor Suanders, you’ll come to the conclusion that pretty much any book written after the 1930’s or so is government directed propaganda. It’s much worse in Europe (see: CIA funded/directed “Congress for Cultural Freedom”), but this book will send you down the rabbit hole of professional propagandists like Jacques Ellul and Edward Barnays. Very little, if any, of the information we’ve grown up in doesn’t have a huge thumb on the “balanced information” scale since the adoption of mass… Read more »

Dutch Boy
Dutch Boy
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
4 months ago

!945 was the late Sam Francis’s date for the founding of the American Empire and the end of the second American Republic. The imperial era is ending soon – the USA can no longer afford it.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

It’s the rapid, and getting much faster by the day, demographic change which makes collapse in the West something that’s hard to know exactly how it will take shape.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Wolf Barney
4 months ago

Given that most are here for the benefits, you have to think that we’ll see less stray cats when the saucer of milk is no longer put on the porch every day. It’s my hope at least.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

JR Wirth: Sounds nice but I wouldn’t count on it. Too much accumulated wealth from generations of working White people for the invaders to take. And even our faltering infrastructure is far better than what they had at home. Many of these people are unaccustomed to running potable water and indoor toilets.

Personally, I wouldn’t bet on many of them leaving voluntarily. Even the Chicago joggers have been told to stop complaining about sharing all the gibs by the money men who run things.

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

I concur with this assessment. Our garbage cans are better than their shopping malls. Even as conditions continue to deteriorate, this will pale in contrast when we imagine how much further the 3rd world will devolve (and is already).

OrangeJulius
OrangeJulius
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

You haven’t traveled much. I have flown more than 3 million miles on one airline alone.

Majority of the 100+ countries I have visited enjoy superior infrastructure in comparison with the US. “Even Mexico” in most areas.

Sure, Bangladesh and Myanmar are terrible. Those less developed countries are exceptions. The Arab, S. American and E. Asian countries invested in their respective infrastructures and this shows.

The US “invested” everywhere else. They’ve hated us for a very long time.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Orange Julius: I have lived (for a year or more) in 5 other countries and visited at least a dozen others. To use a hoary old Anglo phrase, Go Suck an Egg.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

I’m no jingoistic lover of the USA, but to say that you could pick out 100 countries and that a majority of them would have better infrastructure than the U.S. is a bit much. For example, how many of those countries would have potable tap water in nearly 100% of the country? In the summer of 2002, I took a bus from Siem Riep to Bangkok. It took us nearly 8 hours to go the 150 miles from Siem Riep to the Thai border. After going through the border checkpoint, I remembering feeling like Dorothy as she walks out of… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

This is spot on JR Wirth. We have to answer the question of what are we? On the one hand, we are the common enemy around which the other tribe’s identity and purpose exists. Our survival and the fight against our dispossession will be our immediate purpose. However, it is up to us to define who we are and our ultimate purpose at a transcendant level. Many will be lost to despair or to atomized individualism that works until it doesn’t. The Remnant will be those with the mental health to use the survival instinct. At some point it/we will… Read more »

Gideon
Gideon
4 months ago

“It is as if the people in that [dissident] pro-Ukraine subculture were given a potion by the neocons that causes them to repeat all of their most absurd claims, without realizing they are parroting the people they claim to oppose.” Quite a lot of the Kool-Aid gets drunk in our sphere. Take art. Nothing separates the establishment from ordinary folk more than abstract art does. Basically, it’s a grift wherein self-appointed critics tell wealthy collectors what is or isn’t a worthy investment. No one, not least the hoi polloi, can make heads or tails of the paint splatters, so it’s… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Gideon
4 months ago

Hi Gideon – Szutty was not proposing that we go to war with China. He is thinking through the future of military structures and how our people will dominate them. His comments on China were not arguing for war with them, but he does see them as a serious threat to our nation. He didn’t elaborate on why or how they are threatening. At some point I would like to understand why and how he sees it that way. For now, he is rightly focused on the most immediate threat. I think the Homeland Institute and the White Papers Policy… Read more »

Gideon
Gideon
Reply to  RealityRules
4 months ago

I may have misheard Mr Zsutty, because we came away with different takes. And I agree that Counter-Currents and the Homeland Institute are important initiatives. But if China is a direct threat to America, we’re really screwed, since after half a century of building them up we now rely on that and other countries’ manufactured goods and willingness to purchase U.S. Treasuries to pay for them. Conflict with Russia may leave us humiliated; conflict with China could easily impoverish us. My larger point is that we cannot offer any real alternatives to the establishment paradigm if we largely accept its… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Gideon
4 months ago

Cool. I think your description of the threat from China and its position is what concerns Szutty.

I look at the photos and videos of who lines the streets of NY waiting for their hotel rooms and handouts and it is chilling. The wilds of Africa are streaming across the border. I don’t disagree that the border, and the organized direct flights as well are threat number one.

Mayorkas and whoever is behind him is the head of the snake.

krustykurmudgeon
krustykurmudgeon
4 months ago

this is a thought experiment but I’m curious as to what the second order effects would be. If they were to demolish every major big box store and replace it with either single family homes or with a central park-style “greenspace” would traffic actually go down?

Or would the traffic simply be replaced by delivery trucks from amazon or what have you

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
4 months ago

“Is that drone swarm delivery drones or killer drones?”
Versus
“Were the aid trucks kidnapped again by the black “border inspectors” over at the Kensington Street line?”

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
4 months ago

The title of this piece gets it right, and the operative word is “long.” It is possible the Ukraine’s collapse comes comparatively quickly, but the collapse of the West and the GAE will take much longer. In fact, both have been in a slow-motion implosion for around 60 years, and although the pace is increasing, it could take another four decades to bottom out. You’re talking about a civilization that has been around for close to three millennia. Virulent though the Hebro-Negro-Pomo triad may be, it cannot topple a colossus built by Greeks, Romans, Christians, Germans and Brits overnight.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

I’m not so sure. Things seem to happen much faster these days thanks to the internet and social media. Hysteria builds up exponentially and is quickly globalised. There’s also the war factor. Nothing destroys civilisations faster and more completely than war, and the US neocons seem intent of dragging us into at the very least several regional conflicts. America losing these – and they would – will hasten any collapse.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

Wildfire hysteria is indeed something relatively new, and it could be a destabilizing factor. However, warfare is endemic to the human condition and as often works to buttress an establishment as to destroy it. I don’t think we can count on neocon bloodthirst to topple the GAE.

Jannie
Jannie
4 months ago

In many places in the USA, the public school system has de facto collapsed. Sure, kids and teachers still show up, there are basketball games, etc. but when those teachers cannot discipline the kids and those kids leave school without even knowing how to read, to me that indicates a collapse. A collapse in the whole reason for kids going to school, i.e. to learn stuff.

What vigorous Saxon and Visigoth kingdoms hath arisen to replace this collapsed, decadent late-Roman behemoth? Homeschooling and increasingly affordable (often church-provided) private education.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Jannie
4 months ago

There wasn’t a basketball game this past weekend in my hometown. Why? Because on social media a kid from my town made some kind of disparaging remark about a player from the other school who happens to be of Indian extraction (feather, not dot). So the game was cancelled. The respective AD’s issued statements about how they’d reached out to each other and agreed that such things are unacceptable and that players from the offending school will be subject to reeducation camp – during school hours – by a third party. The offended party says that it treasures its indigenous… Read more »

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  KGB
4 months ago

My local school has a “positive news” app on its website where it published “upbeat” stories gleaned from the usual sources. This week’s top story? Nepal has just celebrated its first “gay marriage”. That’s why our civilisation deserves nothing better than total collapse.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

It deserves to die under a typhoon of fiery hailstones.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

with a flashflood of brimstone thrown in! 🙂

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  KGB
4 months ago

Wow! That is amazing. The cloud’s have established the rites.

The lower orders are just mimicing the rituals. The young kids are going to adopt this as the new morality.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  KGB
4 months ago

KGB: Public schools are poison. Drop them and set up private and unofficial alternatives.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

My daughter doesn’t attend public school. And despite coming from a family filled with teachers, including my late father, I cannot wait to see the entire institution of public “education” choke on its own intellectual vomit.

Mr. Generic
Mr. Generic
Reply to  KGB
4 months ago

It sounds like the school districts in your area have an over-abundance of childless women.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  KGB
4 months ago

I’m declaring a new leader in the clubhouse for “reasons to cancel a sportsball game.” But we’re not at the end of that road yet. Probably far from it.

Mr. Generic
Mr. Generic
4 months ago

> The Bandera elements could try to seize power

Are there any left? I thought the Chechens finished them off at Mariupol.

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  Mr. Generic
4 months ago

Ha ha ha. Ever try to finish off cockroaches or rats?

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  pantoufle
4 months ago

And come to think of it, later a whole bunch were traded back in a POW exchange.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
4 months ago

The thought that this system may not collapse actually annoys me

Jannie
Jannie
4 months ago

All parties do seem to be looking for a credible off-ramp vis-à-vis Ukraine (see Georgia Meloni’s recent prank call with “African leaders). But who is going to provide it?

Guest
Guest
Reply to  Jannie
4 months ago

I see no evidence whatsoever that Russia is looking for an “off ramp” of any sort. A limited war in the Ukraine is absolutely in the best interests of Russia. It is affordable, both in financial cost and in terms of lives expended. It is driving a wedge between the US and Europe, stressing NATO to the core, and dividing the US body politic internally. Also, the rot of America’s position in the war has driven the BRICs countries together, strengthening the position of Russia and China.

Russia has every reason to keep this war going as long as possible.

george 1
george 1
4 months ago

In the U.S. many large cities are certainly vulnerable. If the EBT cards get shut off in about one week you will have Mogadishu. Will that be societal collapse? Maybe and maybe not. The high IQ people will not be in those places at least not for long. So maybe in such a case the animals just eat each other.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  george 1
4 months ago

As long as the regime lives, the EBT cards will keep working. They will never, ever turn them off voluntarily. Doesn’t matter how bad inflation gets or how worthless the currency is. If each EBT card has to get $10 trillion a month, so be it.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

There have to be products the EBT cards can buy. That’s no longer a certainty.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

It is certainly in the interest of Big Ag (and small ag) to keep on producing what they produce. Barring nuclear war or something, I can’t imagine why they would stop.

I can envision a day when imported foods become harder to find, but for AINO to have a scarcity of basic foodstuffs seems very farfetched.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

There are problems even now with transportation and delivery. It’s hardly far-fetched.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Jeffrey Zoar: The availability and cost of certain products is easily manipulated. Cost of eggs (something I would consider a staple – cheap protein and widely used in baking) went sky high in 2021/2022 and then dropped back down to more traditional prices in mid- 2023. Now the cost of eggs is again skyrocketing. In each case it’s been due to supposed ‘bird flu’ caused by wild birds, and millions of domestic chickens have been killed to prevent the spread. I’m not a scientist and really don’t know what is real in this case, but the ‘cure’ has resulted in… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Toilet paper. Think toilet paper. There never was an interruption in the production of toilet paper during the past scamdemic. Indeed, the factories began to run 24×7. Yet there was a shortage (as in you could not find any) and rationing via empty shelves and store limits. Same with several other items I could mention. It doesn’t take production or delivery interruptions, only panic. Once word spreads of a “coming” shortage, people will buy everything available and “stock up”. Back in the bad old days of the USSR it was said that people seeing a queue form in front a… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

It might not ever happen, but in “regular” countries it happens on occasion where the government thinks that they’ll never run out of money (ability to issue debt), and then one day they wake up and find out that they certainly can. The EBT card is one thing, but imagine being on a Navy ship halfway around the world that can no longer buy fuel.

cg2
cg2
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

A lovely diverse lass in my Nextdoor app neighborhood recently posted to complain that someone had apparently hacked/skimmed her EBT and made off with her food credits. Not to worry, she could surely go a few months without eating, but it is so hard not to respond to those posts.

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  george 1
4 months ago

The animals eat each other now. Just look at the knee-grow murder rates. Personally, I wish they would crank it up a bit, but hey, I’ll take it when I can get it. In my ideal world, all of the leftist whites who say they support “diversity” should be forced to live amongst the animals and not be permitted to leave. What I think will really happen is that AINO will continue to muddle along moving further and further left. There will be just enough crumbs from the table to keep whitey in line. One would think that at some… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Collapse is a funny word, often used but ill defined. Means different things to different people, most of them wrong, as people usually are. Sorry I don’t have a date for you when things “break down.” But I do see the waning of competence, it’s hard to miss. Things seem to work just a little worse every year. More rejects making it through quality control. You see it too. In the current news cycle, university presidents whose qualification for a bachelor’s degree is questionable. I could go on, but it seems obvious to me, and probably to you too, that… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

Germany is not big enough for the bug out strategy. But I believe they found some people living deep in Siberia some time after the second war. That had managed not to heard about WW2 while living in Russia during it. That is solid isolation

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
4 months ago

It comes from being frozen solid. Like one of those wooley mammoths or mastodons we read about as kids back in the seventies.

Sgt Pedantry
Sgt Pedantry
4 months ago

Not a collapse scenario, but it seems that the thing most likely to hammer US society has to do with the economy, so

If USD loses its status as the only reserve currency

and this is either preceeded or followed by large increases in energy (oil) costs

and inflation / debt servicing costs say, triple

and the fantasies about MMT prove to be just that,

then what would/should/ought to be the response from the central bank and/or policy makers?

imnobody00
imnobody00
Reply to  Sgt Pedantry
4 months ago

would/should/ought to be the response from the central bank and/or policy makers

They have only a response

PRINT MONEY

WillS
WillS
Reply to  Sgt Pedantry
4 months ago

America runs on credit. What happens when we can no longer borrow money to plant the crops or fill the warehouses? Businesses do not use their own money for production anymore. Better to buy back stocks and give bonuses. Our whole system is dependent on cheap money. Cheap money is inherently dishonest and can only be done with a fiat currency. Not sure what happens when the credit dries up.

roo_ster
Member
4 months ago

I would not mourn much were Blackrock investors/employees/owners to have a sudden and catastrophic collision with reality, Ceaușescu-style.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  roo_ster
4 months ago

Forget what a new Ukie government might do to those Blackrock title deeds. It’s Putin they need to worry about. There is absolutely no way that he will tolerate Blackrock’s presence anywhere in Ukraine. And it’s him who is calling the shots from now on, not Kiev.

Horace
Horace
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

I had read last month that the first battalion of Ukrainian soldiers had been sent to the front: on the Russian side, recruited from POWs. You may remember one of the early Ukrainian atrocities was firing missiles at a POW camp in Donbass (filled with THEIR OWN PEOPLE) who had been captured at Mariupol. The only reason to do that was that some of their Ukronazis were getting a clue about for whom they were actually fighting, and Kiev wanted to dissuade that tendency. Their is zero chance this doesn’t end with Ukrainian kill teams exterminating every single Vanguard/Blackrock/Rothschild operative… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  roo_ster
4 months ago

Blackrock = Schwartzstein

Hun
Hun
4 months ago

“liberal democracies have shown an ability to self-correct” That’s silly. Liberal democracies are great at hiding collapses. For ex. when Nixon ended convertibility of the USD to gold, it was the final act of the collapse of the old system. Only on the surface has the system continued after the collapse. An even better and more ominous example is the demographic change happening in the West. For example, if you slowly replace the French with Arabs and Sub-Saharan Africans, then France has collapsed, even if the state keeps going semi-functionally, under the same name, with the same form of government… Read more »

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
Reply to  Hun
4 months ago

I believe the concept is ‘revolution within the form’.
Example: the Catholic Church and Vatican II.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Hun
4 months ago

People have watched or read too much post apocalyptic fiction and can really only conceptualize the post collapse as something akin to Mad Max. For many, the collapse has already happened. We have armies of drug addicts and homeless people whose daily existence is a post apocalyptic horror film of trying to survive and procure the next fix. 20-40 year olds’ deaths are just a daily occurrence. A very large chunk of these people are the sons and daughters of the previous middle and working class. My guess is the continued collapsing of the US will mean the growth of… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
4 months ago

This is a great point. Frodi recently posted a conversation with Sam Dickson where Dickson effectively points out what you do. Collapse is in the past tense: TFR; addiction; suicides; crime; established racial caste system; cultural rot (ubiquitous thug culture; sportsball; Disney/Hollywood); Eurpid/Occident erasure … … It has collapsed. However, something has already filled the vacuum because it was organized and orchestrated to do so on the domestic front. What they don’t control is how the international order will go. America and Britain are gone. Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy still have a chance to preserve their homelands but the… Read more »

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
4 months ago

Spot on, Tars. Whenever I casually mention that our society has already collapsed to normie, I get a funny look. Then I mention the tent cities all over and the refusal to enforce the law on the sacred cows and they nod their head. “Oh yeah, that’s true…”

Entropy
Entropy
Reply to  Tired Citizen
4 months ago

France is worse than the US or the UK.Scotland is in Britain and is as woke as California.

What facts do you base your opinions on ?
For example ; France is more diverse than any Western country other than the US or Canada. France currently is carrying out a nation wide counter-insurgency effort in FRANCE-not Afghanistan or Iraq.

Gerrmany may now have more Muslims living in it than the UK or the US..

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  Hun
4 months ago

Argentina may be a better example than Brazil.

Reputedly the former really and truly had an American-level economy and standard of living. And then ….

Hun
Hun
Reply to  pantoufle
4 months ago

The US will be very lucky if it ends up with demographics like Argentina.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Hun
4 months ago

You’re getting close to something important with this post, and that is cultural collapse. The culture of AINO, and perhaps the West in general, has already collapsed. It is so much lower now in terms of sophistication and pulchritude than it was just 40 years ago, that it’s not even funny. Is culture a leading indicator? I think it probably is.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

The now-cliche “politics are downstream of culture” does raise the question of what is upstream. I suspect nothing. What is upstream is what replaces the existing culture, which is what supplants the polity and all else. I don’t think the elimination is as complete as Sam Dickson would have it, but he’s more right than he is wrong. There is much scurrying now to extinguish any flickers of the once dominant culture.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

Yes, because everything is downstream of culture. Everything. Even the economy: look at how many big corporations are willing to court bankruptcy in order to follow the Woke/ESG agenda. As the culture goes, so the civilisation goes.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

Some percentage of that is rooted in presumption of abundance. Things have been so good for so long that they can’t imagine anything to the contrary.

WillS
WillS
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
4 months ago

That is an interesting consideration. Not only do they lack the ability but there is no desire to imagine anything to the contrary of abundance. The average for human society has been scarcity. We live in the rare era of abundance.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

Culture is downstream of genetics.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Hun
4 months ago

No doubt. Whose genes?

Anon
Anon
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

Any genes of any species. Think of the herd or pack behaviour in animals. It is a a primeval form of culture.

Karl Horst (Germany)
Karl Horst (Germany)
4 months ago

For a contemporary example of Ukrainian recovery, I would expect they will follow Germany’s footsteps after WW2. Although not exactly the same, there are quite a few similarities. However their greatest challenge to recovery will not be the loss of territory or actual the rebuilding, it will be the effects of massive corruption. And not just internally, but corruption propagated by the West. Germany post WW2* – • German industrial output was reduced by 30%. • Housing stock was reduced by 20%. • Food production was half the level it was before the start of the war. • A large… Read more »

MikeCLT
MikeCLT
Reply to  Karl Horst (Germany)
4 months ago

And yet Germany, at least in the West, rebuilt itself into the dominant power in continental Europe within a generation. This was possible because of the German people and who they are, what their culture is. I do not see a similar outcome for Ukraine.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  MikeCLT
4 months ago

MikeCLT: Economicallly, Germany may have rebuilt itself. Culturally it has been deliberately crippled. No pride in its history, culture, or people is permitted. Its hardiest men were killed off. It is following the path laid out by its AINO/ZOG masters and eliminating itself.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Isn’t it odd, that from any direction we *always* return to one fundamental—blood and soil!

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Much of that happened primarily after the Cold War, 3g. The rebuilding Karl pointed out happened and was encouraged, and while it is counter-intuitive the racial degradation intensified only after the USSR no longer was seen as a problem. Things are now as you point out but much of it only manifested post-1991. A cousin by marriage who came of age in the old communist east says the country as a whole now is much more anti-German than even then (the East German government claimed all the Nazis had moved to West Germany, for example). I also don’t think the… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

Modern Germany is deeply depressing for the reasons 3g points out

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

“Karl didn’t mention that but it surely represents a new low in the treatment of Germany.” Yes indeed. Scholzy was there at a presser where Biden said it would be “taken care of”. Is there a more cucked creature at this moment crawling over mother Earth than this German “leader”? And is anyone in Germany raising a stink over his cuckoldry? Germans are not the people they were. So many I have met over the course of my life seem either almost childlike or super spergy. Obsessing over trivial things and doing their best to avoid looking at reality. This… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

When a nation is fully viable sociopolitically, but is dead in every other respect, what do we call that? This scenario describes most Western states quite well.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

I would call this depressing video a part of culture that’s dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03jYM4SEC1k

Karl Horst (Germany)
Karl Horst (Germany)
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

Despite any sort of rebuilding program, Ukraine will never be anything more than it was before the conflict, just smaller and poorer. But let’s not kid ourselves. Germany, like most of Europe, has been in a steady decline since the 1980’s. Back then problems were starting to appear with declining exports, fewer technological advances, higher labor costs, a lack of skilled workers and increased investment abroad rather than at home. Although we managed to work through that, we have failed to innovate and now China is eating our lunch. Culturally, we are terrified of being in debt, which has resulted… Read more »

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

And now even their great economy has been undermined by crazy green policies and anti-Russia decisions.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Germany is undergoing de-industrialization. The boom of the past 40 years, made largely possible by the combination of Swiss/German anal obsession to tiny details, with access to cheap and reliable access to Russian raw materials has bee destroyed.
The Hun is Done.

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  MikeCLT
4 months ago

Here’s a book about Germans recovering from WWII. It was not all fun.
“Aftermath: Life in the Fallout of the Third Reich, 1945-1955”, by Harald Jähner, translated by Shaun Whiteside

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
4 months ago

The difference between the GAE and the old USSR, as Juri pointed out below, is that Russian society in the sense of the people did not collapse although its Regime did. That’s a very good point. The Russian people endured and outlasted the State because the communist system ultimately depended on the people failing. The problem we face is far more destructive to us as a people: demographics in fact are destiny. We already see dissolution and fragmentation as a result of the influx of aliens. Whether this was planned or a byproduct is hard to say, but the foundation… Read more »

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Those are alarming developments, particularly when you consider factions of the psychopaths in charge want a war with China.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

Compared to what Russians have historically endured–Mongol conquest, Ivan the Terrible and his Oprichnina, the Smutnoe Vremia, etc.–Soviet misrule was just another rut in the road. When the people are hardy, homogenous and unified, they can overcome just about anything. In terms of these qualities, “Americans” simply cannot compare, and for that reason, AINO is far more susceptible to genuine collapse.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
4 months ago

“Hardy, homogenous and unified”. None of those adjectives applies to any Western nation, with the honourable exception of Hungary.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

Debatable. I would argue most white ethnicities, save the Germans, Dutch, Brits, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians Irish and Swedes, show at least some spark of resiliency. But a spark is not enough. The spark must lead to an inferno that persists long enough to cleanse and renew Europe.

WillS
WillS
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

HI Jack

The TFR in the west is a huge force multiplier. The continental United States will be a completely different animal in 30 to 50 years. Not sure the replacement population will be able to maintain the system for very long. The nation may resemble Africa with varying degrees of competence depending on the tribe controlling the land.

Xman
Xman
4 months ago

This is a great question. I admit that I’m as susceptible to “collapse porn” as anyone. There’s plenty of evidence for collapse, to be sure: the debt is $34 trillion, Judge Ketanji from Uganda is on the SCOTUS, Trump is under arrest, two gays just got caught doing anal in the Senate, the public schools are trying to turn your kind into a tranny. It simply doesn’t make sense that the county can possibly continue to go on under these circumstances. But in contrast to times past, we’re not sending an army into Virginia to kill Confederates, we’re not conscripting… Read more »

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Xman
4 months ago

“I would argue that the biggest collapse in Modern times occurred in 1918, when the Russian, German, Austro-Hungarian, and Ottoman empires collapsed, and the British Empire was weakened to the point where it would only survive 30 more years.”

Yes. Whatever happens to the GAE is more likely to resemble those.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
4 months ago

Our economy hasn’t collapsed, but the state of our cities says society has been collapsing for decades. Then again, culture has always played second fiddle to economics in America. I wish we’d get over that hump.

Maxda
Maxda
4 months ago

I find myself thinking a lot about collapse these days. Been reading about 2nd and 3rd Rome and their long collapse. Like the Romans – and unlike most of the former Warsaw Pact countries – we are now “diversified” to the point where the original population has stopped caring. Maybe we are in a long collapse, but with the exception of the Romans, that’s not how empires usually go out. Every time I see we borrow-printed another trillion dollars or passed another law making commerce more difficult, I wonder if that’s the straw breaks us. Maybe not, but I’m now… Read more »

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Maxda
4 months ago

Covid should have collapsed the economy and the civilization along with it, but it didn’t. We should be having bear markets and bull markets at semi-regular intervals, but we aren’t. Inflation should be causing consumers to cut spending, but restaurants are still full, shops are still full, and people are still buying cars and houses. I see no difference in the landscape between, say 2017 and now. The only conclusion I can come up with is there is still a lot of smart people running things, and they probably have solutions that we may not even be aware of. White… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Marko
4 months ago

The long-term damage of the Covid madness may not have manifested just yet, particularly in human capital.

cg2
cg2
Reply to  Marko
4 months ago

‘Be assured young friend, that there is a great deal of ruin in a nation’

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Marko
4 months ago

The Boomers and perhaps Generation “X” are the last cohorts to avoid the reverse Flynn effect. The follow on generations are declining in IQ—and that leads into a decline in our educational institutions which amplifies this genetic incompetence. That is only talking about Whites. We have also been taking in non-Whites by the millions and their IQ was always lower than the Native American stock. (For example, it looks like the Biden administration has allowed at least a 2-3% population increase *just* with IA’s crossing the border—and they are not the “best and brightest” as Trump astutely pointed out!) So… Read more »

Mr. Generic
Mr. Generic
Reply to  Marko
4 months ago

It might be easy to think the economy is fake or that society is on its last legs if you live in the shell of a Rust Belt city or in the middle of a coastal urban hellscape, but where I live the economy is humming along better than ever. Mining, energy extraction, and especially agriculture are all efficient and prosperous. We even have manufacturing too, although the factories are heavily automated so relatively few highly-trained employees, unlike the oodles of good middle class jobs that ended with the Boomers. I think it is easy for those of us who… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Mr. Generic
4 months ago

Kind of to back of your point, that’s what the Covid Lockdowns showed: large portions of modern economies don’t even matter. It’s like there could be some Elon Musk-style Twitter purge through the whole economy and not much would change. So, the parts that do matter, are doing well, while the parts that don’t (which is most parts) maybe not so much? That would be my theory anyhow.

Mr. Generic
Mr. Generic
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
4 months ago

Correct. Most jobs are useful only in that they provide midwits with a sense of purpose and spare the broader society of the demoralizing effects of putting a majority of the population on welfare.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Mr. Generic
4 months ago

… and it is now quite possible for fewer numbers of smart people to do even more with even less. ” I do not argue the above, but also note that the smart fraction produces the “very smart fraction”. Dutton talks about this in his book, “The Genius Famine”. AI has yet to prove it can extend into the genius part of the Bell Curve. I bet it will not and if it did, then we’d really have AI becoming self aware. Problematic in its own. I just can’t help thinking of way back when computers were coming into their… Read more »

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  Marko
4 months ago

You are too optimistic. That good human capital you speak of is indeed there. But the entire system is hell bent on sidelining it. Most of it being white males. What’s left is fat low IQ whites and non-whites being the cannon fodder for the military and for the corporations and that means incompetence and poor results all around. Mix that with systemic corruption. One disturbing example: the Rooskies have various hyper-sonic missiles. Even the Chinese apparently have some. Meanwhile the MIC keeps developing the American ones. For years. Yet they are never delivered. Everything just sort of goes …… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
4 months ago

We will know that our sphere is on the right path when we stop fixating on collapse and start fixating on creative thought and action. Any time and energy spent on what The Regime is doing should only be spent if it is necessary to plan and execute tactics and strategies that help you bring to fruition your creative endeavor that is in service to our people.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  RealityRules
4 months ago

Can’t we fixate on both? It’s important to read the signs of collapse all around us (and they are there) in order to avoid being under the rubble when it does blow. It’s also important to plan solutions. The two aren’t mutually exclusive; in fact, you need both angles to survive what is coming.

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

“Any time and energy spent on what The Regime is doing should only be spent if it is necessary to plan and execute tactics and strategies that help you bring to fruition your creative endeavor that is in service to our people.”

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
4 months ago

> For example, Blackrock has been buying up land rights in Ukraine, expecting a Ukraine victory.

While the MIC sees all gains in dealing with Ukraine, the Blackrock investments are a little baffling at first glance. While ideologues, they aren’t dumb and must be hedging their bets in some way. What is probably happening is these “investments” are incapable of being liquidated and Blackrock will simply request the money printer to go brrrr if Ukraine goes belly-up.

It goes back to the idea that in modern times, a corporation’s gains are private and their losses public.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Chet Rollins
4 months ago

If anything is too big to fail, Blackrock certainly would meet that definition. I suspect you are right and it will be bailed out to the immediate detriment of the population.

Juri
Juri
4 months ago

Soviet Union did not had society collapse. Actually other way around. After 70 years of destruction, our societies remained so strong that finally anti society regime collapsed itself. All struggle in the Soviet Union was between society and regime. Collapsed society can never over throw regime. People can not unite when society collapses and that what communist regime wanted. But failed.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Juri
4 months ago

The rhetorical spin I like is when people say the Soviet Union did not collapse, they simply won when the United States submitted to communism.

Juri
Juri
Reply to  Chet Rollins
4 months ago

Thats truth. All your wokeness and other diseases are our beloved KGB brain childs imported to your societies with Soviet money and with assistance of your Jewish communities. There is even joke in Russia that in the Ukraine, Russian Army fighting with Soviet Army. Putin former paymasters in KGB created problem, communism in the West and now this problem circled back haunting Russia itself.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Juri
4 months ago

Yeah, the tranny nonsense for example resembles the early madness of the Lenin era. None of this stuff is new.

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

Also the madness of Weimar Germany.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

True. But the GAE’s economy is far more free market than command. The Leftist program that runs the GAE is postmodern, not Marxist, although there are superficial cultural similarities.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Juri
4 months ago

That’s an excellent point. The difference between the GAE and the old USSR is that the society in the former already has collapsed but the Regime remains intact and power hungry.

Maxda
Maxda
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

The Russians, Poles, Hungarians, etc. still knew what it meant to be themselves and wanted to reestablish governments in their national interests.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Jack Dodson
4 months ago

Depends on what you mean by “societies”. Cities, yeah, I doubt there’s anything left there. The anti-society forces have mostly won there already. Maybe a shared hardship would renew the social ties, but I doubt it. There’s simply no common factor under which people can ally. So if you are urban or suburban, I understand your pessimism.

But as another of my favorite bloggers says, in Modern Mayberry, it’s a little different. Give it a shot sometime. But leave the cockroaches and other pests in the cities where they belong, please.

David Wright
Member
4 months ago

Say what you will about Blackrock but there are a lot of very smart people there where ideology takes a second seat. Shouldn’t we be seeing signs of them hedging their bets or investments given the likely outcome of Ukraine’s fall?

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  David Wright
4 months ago

Exactly. Can’t say I’m following it, but I haven’t heard anything about a change, either. Makes one wonder what’s up. I’ve had the thought the war could be a slavic negotiation for a long time.

Maxda
Maxda
Reply to  David Wright
4 months ago

American taxpayers are the hedge.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  David Wright
4 months ago

So much of the derivatives market is dark, but I’d be astonished to find out that to a large degree, all their investments are not hedged with credit default swaps. And now with precedents set by the Chicago Mercantile and MF Global, it’s perfectly legal to rehypothecate customer assets, forcing them to assume the risks, and even outright steal customer segregated funds to make the principals whole, so long as you are a loyal contributor to the DNC.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  David Wright
4 months ago

If “ideology takes a second seat” at Blackrock, then why are they one of the primary proponents of ESG? The answer is because, even for those who control Blackrock, hatred of traditional whites is more important than profit. Not to pick on David, but there is an inability among many on the right to imagine that there are groups for whom a cause is more important than profit. (It’s similar to how white people can’t imagine that there are racial groups that are not full of good will towards the other peoples of the world, like how whites are.) If… Read more »

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
4 months ago

In addition to Trump, Vivek the Cobra is also a critic of sending money to Ukraine.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Wolf Barney
4 months ago

Wolf Barney: He’s also a financial crook, a WEF alumnus, and a cultural and racial alien. I’m not certain precisely whose interests are best served by his candidacy, but it’s not White people’s.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

I agree. I’m just pointing out that it’s not just Trump who opposes throwing our money away.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Yep. He’s just piggy-backing Trump and Maga to gain votes. He’s doing what Meloni, Milei and others are doing: pretending to be Maga in order to use the disaffected right-wing vote to propel them to power. Once in power, they quickly revert to their globalist roots.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

In other words, he’s a classic Republican.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Robbo
4 months ago

Quite possibly, but on the way, he will say things that whites aren’t allowed to be say. But once those ideas are out there, whites will be allowed to say them, which will wake up even more whites.

Cobra is out for Cobra, but he can be useful.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

Agree that he’s not on our side, but I think that he can be useful. Cobra is a good sign. He’s a sign that different power bases are forming. He used the usual suspects’ playbook to get money and into the system, but I suspect that he doesn’t want to be their lackey like his co-ethnic Haley. The rise of Indians within the US and Asians and, to some degree, Arabs outside the US is good for us. They’re breaking the usual suspects’ lock on power. Granted, it’s not as though we’re moving up, but competing elites is good for… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

Citizen: I think you are overly optimistic about Whites waking up, and Whites being allowed to take their own side (verbally as well as socially). And I don’t agree that non-Whites stating forbidden truths is to our benefit. See Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder, etc. Either way, I have no personal interest in or impact on electoral politics.

But time will tell.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

You could be right. I mean, whites who haven’t woken up yet probably aren’t going to wake. It’s not as though they haven’t seen how much non-whites and the usual suspects hate them.

I also agree that electoral politics isn’t going to anything for us. I honestly don’t follow politics at all. If Z hadn’t write about it, I wouldn’t even have known what Cobra said or that Cobra even existed.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

3g4me, as you’ve indicated over and over again, the folk you mention are just barking seals in this, the clown show. Whereas I admire these individuals’ efforts and ability, in the main they produce no forward momentum for the movement.

TomC
TomC
4 months ago

Everybody getting smart by pushing at the same time. Ukraine, Philippines, Venezuela, Middle East.