Cuban Versus Rufo

An interesting exchange took place this week on Twitter between Mark Cuban, former owner of the Dallas Mavericks, and Christopher Rufo. The topic of their exchange was diversity, with Cuban claiming that diversity was our greatest strength and Rufo claiming that the diversity movement is un-American. Neither man put it exactly that way, but that is the simple summary. Cuban thinks diversity makes things better, while Rufo thinks the push to impose diversity makes everything worse.

The exchange was amusing for the simple reason that Cuban clearly does not understand the issue, beyond knowing the slogans which he spasmodically repeats when the topic is raised. At one point he seems to be saying that the three branches of government are the President, Congress, and the bureaucracy. Everyone had a good laugh at his expense, as it became clear in the thread that Mark Cuban is not the brightest bulb in the bunch, despite being a billionaire.

To some degree that is the point of these mini dramas. The hoi polloi gets to feel good seeing one of their champions best who they think is the enemy. Mark Cuban puts a lot of effort into insulting normal people, so normal people love it when he has his pants pulled down on Twitter or anywhere else. Rufo clearly understands the mechanics of the Diversity Industrial Complex, so he easily swats down the trite claims made by Cuban throughout the thread.

More important, these exchanges frame the debate in such a way that alternative points of view are systematically excluded. Strip away the drama and what we have here are two similar views on race. One side says that racial inequality is the result of racial exclusion by whites and therefore must be remedied by forcing whites to include nonwhites in their activities. The other side says it is immoral to notice race at all, so forcing people to be race-conscious in this way is immoral.

Despite appearing to be opposites, both sides are making the same moral claims with regards to race. Rufo thinks using race to make decisions is immoral, while Cuban thinks whites use race to make decisions, which is bad. In other words, both men agree that making general observations about race is immoral. The difference is that Cuban thinks whites do it all the time, while denying it, and Rufo thinks the diversity crowd is guilty of that which they accuse white people.

Both men are not disagreeing about ends, but about means. This is the model of politics that has prevailed in America since Gettysburg. Both sides agree on the ends but disagree on how best and how quickly to get there. As we see with the race issue, it is not always clear that they both agree on the ends, but once you strip away the rhetoric it is clear that at the minimum, they agree with one another as to the morality of each other’s goals with regards to race.

This is an important bit of conditioning that arises from the selection pressure within the American political dynamic. People approved to be on the stage are conditioned to first evaluate the goals of people seeking to get on stage. If their goals fall within the moral framework of the stage owners, they can debate them. Mark Cuban read portions of Rufo’s book, probably because people he knows read it. He knows Rufo is not advocating for things that are proscribed.

Of course, we know Rufo has put an enormous amount of effort into making it clear that he is not like those bad people who think race is a real thing. This is where you see the selection pressure. This is why he focuses on the goal of organizational success, rather than the details of race. He argues that diversity programs make colleges and corporations worse, by preventing them from hiring the best. You see, in a color-blind society we get a true meritocracy!

Interestingly, if both sides of this debate want to see organizations like Harvard maximize their potential, then they would have to support what is a subtle truth about how the sports world evaluates talent. If you are a white guy who plays cornerback in football, the evaluation of you will be much stricter than if you are black. Tall white guys find it much tougher to standout in basketball. Asian guys are assumed to be poor athletes, so they tend to be ignored.

What happens in sports is what the legendary quantitative blogger La Griffe du Lion described as the theory of differential cutoff. The extremely short version of that post is that those from groups that objectively underperform should be held to a higher standard than those from groups that objectively overperform. In other words, hiring a Jewish guy as your lawyer, even though he went to a state school, is a better bet than hiring the black guy from an elite law school.

Note that this reality lurks beneath the diversity arguments. Mark Cuban assumes people make these judgements about race, thus making it more difficult for qualified nonwhites to gain access to positions for which they are qualified. Put another way, an ancient truth is what haunts the diversity industry. They may not have the smarts to understand it, but they feel it. Note also that it haunts the arguments of people like Rufo, who also seek to banish this ancient truth.

The most important takeaway in all this is that both sides agree that you do not have the right of free association. Cuban thinks you should be required to hire a black guy to meet the demands of diversity, while Rufo thinks you should be required to hire the black guy as long as he meets the objective criteria for the job. Your subjective qualifications and individual preferences are not important. Both men wish to dictate your choice based on their version of reason.

Ultimately, that is the point of framing the debate this way. Nowhere in their exchange is a consideration of preference or free association. They are arguing about which version of reason should be imposed on you, when in reality they are debating whose clerics will decide your punishment for having unacceptable preferences. It is a good reminder that politics is never about facts and the reasonable conclusions from those facts, but about who will impose their morality on whom.


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Drive-By Shooter
Drive-By Shooter
1 month ago

A reading, for harmony and constructive teamwork a few years from now. Twenty-seven verses.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverbs+4&version=NABRE

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverbs+4&version=OJB

As before, there are several instances of lev, the pump in our chests, yet we read, “Let thine lev retain my words”. For how long could Israel’s leaders, or Christian leaders, tolerate rigorous biology and textual criticism in their own midst without subverting their political goal—conquest of all nations and the whole world?

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
1 month ago

https://twitter.com/PatrickRuffini/status/1775518560170672520

This is one of those things that shows there is a difference between looking at things empirically/statistically and intuitively and how they don’t always overlap.

Bill Clinton, at least according to this tweet was a statesman who helped bring the US into the 21st century. He also self policed the American left wing. Yet I know z hated Bill Clinton in the 90s and if you listen to William pierces old broadcasts from then, you’d think wjc had devil horns.

So maybe Bill Clinton was far left, but that he changed the definition of what it was.

miforest
miforest
1 month ago

these people. our owners, impose their “morality” on us . we really don’t have a choice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2t4u_tEefM&t=11s

Compsci
Compsci
1 month ago

“Mark Cuban assumes people make these judgements about race, thus making it more difficult for qualified nonwhites to gain access to positions for which they are qualified.” Sounds like basic stat’s and some sampling theory. In stat’s, what is the probability of selecting a qualified candidate from a pool containing 90% unqualified vs 10% qualified. Now compare that question to another pool (White) where 50% are unqualified and 50% qualified. Mix the two pools and then ask, what are the chances of picking a qualified candidate from the combined pools given the proportions of each pool? What is the probability… Read more »

trackback
1 month ago

[…] ZMan eats some popcorn. […]

Maus
Maus
1 month ago

I think what Zman is driving at with this essay is that unless “meritocracy” is merely a dog whistle for true freedom of association, it will end in tears for the majority of whites remaining in AINO. The elites, who have no compunction about defining a term to satisfy their predilections, will simply reject any conception of meritocracy that doesn’t serve their interests. Note that IQ proxies like the SAT, the ACT and the GRE have become “optional” in deciding access to the most selective tertiary education programs. Are whites prepared to be told that, despite excellent markers of traditional… Read more »

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Maus
1 month ago

I think the best example of the fakeness of “merit” was when the ching chongs were trying to take over the Ivy Leagues from the juice. When little Schmoikel has his violin lesson that’s him demonstrating the kind of creative passion and breadth of interest that makes for a Harvard man. When little Ping Pong has his violin lesson he’s simply mechanically playing the instrument in a cynical attempt to get admitted, Sort of like in Star Trek when Data would play a musical instrument flawlessly and the rest of the crew were suddenly expert music critics that derided his… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Maus
1 month ago

Even if it were the case that all non-white groups would accept strict meritocracy, even if it meant fewer of them in lucrative, prestigious positions, diversity would still be terrible for whites for all sorts of other reasons. The debate over meritocracy and freedom of association is merely one thread in a complex tapestry.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Maus
1 month ago

“ Note that IQ proxies like the SAT, the ACT and the GRE have become “optional” in deciding access to the most selective tertiary education programs.” Indeed, but not quite how people think of the process. Unqualified, or lessor qualified minorities were being given a “helping hand” waaay before such proxies were being considered for elimination. They simply added “bonus” points to the overall evaluation scoring, and viola, the SAT, ACT, and GRE disadvantage was eliminated. The problem was that these candidates now had a record in their transcript of their original SAT, ACT, and GRE scores. These scores became… Read more »

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  Compsci
1 month ago

Except — did we EVAH see BHO’s college entry scores from his transfer from Occidental to Columbia; then to Harvard LS? There’s some funny business there.

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
1 month ago

This isn’t just a race thing. Men are not allowed to have their own spaces. Sports leagues, private clubs, gyms, golf courses you name it. We know what happens when women invade male spaces. It becomes something other than what it originally was… But women can have their own males excluded spaces. Of course little is ever made of this because men aren’t interested in invading female spaces unless they are gay or weirdo’s. But that’s besides the point. The constitution guarantees the right to freedom of assembly. Which means you are not legally obligated to admit anyone into a… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Vinnyvette
1 month ago

Freedom of Association from what I can gather is based mostly on the first amendment, specifically “the right of the people to peaceably assemble.” But I can see (without researching it) that it would be limited to public protests and that sort of thing. Incidentally, that would make DeSantis style anti-BDS legislation problematic with an honest judiciary.

I suppose you could make a tenth Amd. argument, but those don’t seem to do well.

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  c matt
1 month ago

Ok 1st amendment / freedom of speech….

“Get the fuck out of my…” Insert group, club, organization, business establishment of your choice.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Vinnyvette
1 month ago

Don’t get me wrong, I 100% agree with freedom of association. Just don’t expect the current AINO to accept it, and would not rely on the “Constitution” to help much.

On the other hand, FoA has become such a strong part of the American lexicon that most people believe it is in there, somewhere, so maybe it is (hence my reference to the 10th). What a SCrOTUS would do with it, who knows.

Woodpecker
Woodpecker
Reply to  Vinnyvette
1 month ago

I’m coming to see destruction of men’s spaces as *the* disaster of our time. The backbone of society is male social bonds. Women can’t do it. Telling a woman to ‘know her place’ is the unspeakable crime yet ‘knowing our place’ is what men do day in day out, in the workplace, at church, or on a football field. Men are good at knowing our place. That’s how a system works. Once women are admitted, the system freezes up because the usual social cues are out of place. Society becomes dominated by grifters and freaks. Probably the breakdown of men’s… Read more »

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  Woodpecker
1 month ago

I love what you’re saying here. As a child my family belonged to a private yacht club. I enjoyed learning to swim and sail there in the summer. In the winter we would go to dinner and enjoy things like the annual Christmas party. However, there was one place where we were not welcome. It was on the Men’s Porch, a short distance from the Tap Room bar. You could see the old gentlemen sitting on the several rockers there, screened with a trellis, looking out at the boats in the harbor and on the Sound. The Victorian-era clubhouse itself… Read more »

Mycale
Mycale
1 month ago

Rufo has managed to carve out a niche for himself in a smart way, but in the end, the colorblind meritocracy is not going to work and cannot work. We all know this. Yet normies are starting to get it too. Rufo talks a lot about overturning Griggs vs. Duke Energy, which was the famous case that helped establish disparate impact. I agree with him that it should be overturned. Yet what will that accomplish? The same thing tht happened when the Court overturned AA in college admissions – they’ll just find a way to do the same thing, differently.… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Mycale
1 month ago

His fatal flaw is that he does not realize that a colorblind meritocracy can only work in a society that is majority of European descent.

It could probably work in any society where a significant majority are committed to it. Problem is, with few exceptions, Europeans are pretty much the only ones willing to play by those rules. And not even all whites; somewhere around half are fine with racism, so long as it’s against whites.

There are vanishingly few who are OK with racism against anyone you damn well please.

Mycale
Mycale
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

I have seen absolutely no evidence whatsoever that some non-White group of people will be fine with running a colorblind meritocracy, especially when it means their people will be displaced by Whites. All studies show that only Whites have the out-group preferences that make it possible. Everybody else sees taking care of their own as their first priority.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Mycale
1 month ago

I’m not talking about groups of people. Whites are the group that is most amenable to a meritocracy, and half of us are opposed. Many whites who support meritocracy would not benefit from it anyway.

There are a minority of people in other races who are pro-meritocracy, but so far as I can tell, they are exclusively the ones who would benefit.

That’s one reason Rawls is completely scooters. The only ones who would play “fair” under his “veil of ignorance” are the melanin-challenged.

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  Mycale
1 month ago

Mycale

I was literally going to write this exact thing. You are exactly right.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

“There are vanishingly few who are OK with racism against anyone you damn well please.” I’d agree that few Whites take a “principled” view of racism as you set out here because of course it legitimizes the anti-White racism we see all through society today. There are many, myself included, however, who are fine with tribalism (call it racism if you like) for Whites since everyone else is going to do it. In other words when I get the invitation that says “Please come to the gunfight at the OK Corral at high noon today. Do not bring a gun!”… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 month ago

I’m a bad one to talk, because I essentially “tribed up” through white flight 20+ years ago, but while tribalism is an answer, it’s a poor answer. Might be the best we can do, but I hate the thought of abandoning the “man of his word” society that essentially built Western civilization.

Look at a map of all the fiefdoms of Europe after the fall of Rome. Many were less than a day’s walk across. Similarly-sized autarkic tribes would put us back to Dark Age in a hurry.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

You can’t stop what’s comin

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

There were multifarious tiny fiefdoms during the Renaissance, too. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at.

Division of labor. It was only those fiefdoms willing to trade, to capitalize on their comparative advantage, instead of being autarkic (Is that a word? It is now.) that made it possible to develop the civilization we did.

No one else has done that anywhere else in the world. If one wanted evidence of white superiority, that’s it. I’d hate to toss that advantage in the dustbin over ideology.

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 month ago

Where I live the “pajeets” are either doctors (surgeons? I hope not!) or proprietors of liquor stores. Same last names, the Hindu equivalents of Smith or Jones! The surgeons’ wives are very involved in the local social ladies’ swim. Not sure how the old-time local families like this but they do pay up for the various important parties. In other words, no one really likes them but their money is good (Hindus) for the various local charity projects. Their children are also at the best schools, preferably private, and do very well academically. Sports not so much. And in recent… Read more »

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Mycale
1 month ago

Mycale: “Rufo talks a lot about overturning Griggs vs. Duke Energy, which was the famous case that helped establish disparate impact. I agree with him that it should be overturned.” “Griggs” is just one edge of the knife: “Griggs” says that employers are FORBIDDEN to discriminate against a COLORED job applicant on the basis of the applicant’s stupidity. But the other edge of the knife is “Jordan versus New London”, which states that employers are ALLOWED [encouraged even] to discriminate against a WHITE job applicant on the basis of the applicant’s acuity. Both Griggs & Jordan have to go. Obviously… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
1 month ago

“Rufo thinks you should be required to hire the black guy as long as he meets the objective criteria for the job” I agree with the thesis of today’s article. However, the above statement seems falsifiable. I have only read reviews of Rufo’s book, but I think he is aiming to get rid of affirmative action now called DEI. I don’t know if I have ever heard him argue in favor of freedom of association, (cowards have replaced that value with merit as a disguise/proxy), nor against it. It is true that it would be best if the yet another… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

The uniparty model scales up and it scales down. People are much easier to herd and control when their “choices” come from a limited menu. Up at the top of the menu it says FREEDOM in bold. Look at all the choices! I used to watch Shark Tank sometimes. As late night CNBC programming goes, I prefer American Greed. Anyhow, Cuban never impressed me. But I get the feeling we’re supposed to think he’s “reasonable,” or “moderate,” or something like that. People floated the idea of him running for president. Evidently he’s one of the billionaires we’re supposed to like,… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

“People are much easier to herd and control when their ‘choices’ come from a limited menu.”

This realization was one of the shocks that radicalized me.

When I still had hope for our political system, my main concern was immigration and border control.

Eventually, I realized that I would never get a candidate who expressed my ideas because they would never get financial backing from the small number of donors who control the politicians whose most people even recognize.

Burn it all down.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Cuban always seemed sleazy and stupid. My favorite shark was Kevin. He seemed smart, based and honest.

CorkyAgain
CorkyAgain
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 month ago

I still find Cuban’s baseball card analogy a useful way to look at the stock market.

flashing red
flashing red
1 month ago

Off topic–do you think Israel recognizes the irony of their current actions? To wit, forcing remaining Gazan’s into a Pale of Settlement where they are denied access to food, water, medical treatment, and the ability to depart even if they had somewhere to go? Are yellow stars of david on clothing the next step?

Xman
Xman
Reply to  flashing red
1 month ago

Of course not. The suffering of God’s Chosen People is always more important than the suffering of the goyim.

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  flashing red
1 month ago

The Palestinians are in the finding-out phase.

Polemeros
Polemeros
1 month ago

Cuban is Chubanisky thru his paternal line and Feldman thru his mother. Tells you all you need to know.

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  Polemeros
1 month ago

Wait, he’s related to Corey? Should have known…

Geo. Orwell
Geo. Orwell
1 month ago

“As we see with the race issue, it is not always clear that they both agree on the ends, but once you strip away the rhetoric it is clear that at the minimum, they agree with one another” This general situation over what looks like clear differences happens very often in Normieworld, and not just with respect to race. Two sides, “left” and “right,” smugly have an argument over something where the real issues never arise. Take neocons versus neoliberals. Both want to overthrow governments and start wars but use different excuses. “We have to fight those guys over there… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
1 month ago

But we know damned well that black barrister with the Yale sheepskin got it because of his race, not his ability. Rejecting him in favor of the Finkel–or a fortiori the white guy because of institutionalized discrimination against him–from Florida State is what I call reason.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

If you can find an anglo saxon male Ivy league lawyer whose parents weren’t rich, you’ll know you are onto something. Probably doesn’t exist though.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

J.D. Vance.

But “the exception does not disprove the rule”…

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

I imagine there were plenty of that sort in the first half of the 20th century. Nowadays they’re scarce as pixies astride unicorns.

Danny
Danny
1 month ago

One day, while drifting in the human stream, I saw a log float by – the sturdy old log was intelligence. Instead of grabbing it and hanging on, I let it drift by.

A while later I struck a rock in the stream – a large rock that was jagged and the shock slammed me to the core. The rock was reality. As I attempted to gather my wits and recover from the hard hit against the rock, the log slammed into me. And I am no longer the same as I once was.

TomA
TomA
1 month ago

Is there strategic value to be gained from high level analysis of societal pathology as described in today’s post? Yes, but it’s not for the sake of education, awareness, or even future debating success. The real value is in its use as camouflage. Sometimes you have to get in close, and in order to do that, you must adopt the correct appearance and demeanor in order to gain access to the inner sanctum. Tradecraft is a high level skill. Think outside the box.

Tarl Cabot
Tarl Cabot
Reply to  TomA
1 month ago

For the moment, “Rufoism”, is as wide as the Overton Window will open. The challenge for the DR is trying not to get bored by it all.

I confess to failing, in that respect.

TomA
TomA
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
1 month ago

To reinvigorate your brain (and have some fun in the process), its best to use this knowledge resource provided by our host in service to the development of potential solutions for what ails us. This solution matrix can take many forms (per the skill and preferences of the originator), but it is a worthy use of one’s time. Think of it as contingency planning if that makes it more palatable.

Tars Tarkas
Member
1 month ago

The problem is they both have the same priors. Those priors were inculcated in them as children and reinforced daily ever since. Most people have never been exposed to any counter information. It’s not just bad information they’ve been exposed to, it’s how it was (and is) exposed to them. It’s done in emotionally manipulative ways so that when or if they are briefly exposed to different information, they react emotionally to it. Not only do they have this emotional priming, they are well aware that deviating from the approved narrative will have extremely devastating consequences.

Oswald Spengler
Oswald Spengler
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 month ago

In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 month ago

Tars: Excellent points.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
1 month ago

If Mark Cuban believes diversity for diversity’s sake is so good, why did he not apply it to player selection for the Mavericks? Rufo should have asked him this question. Same for when he built Broadcast.com.

Tars Tarkas
Member
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
1 month ago

Or that Israel needs more Arabs and Africans. It’s good to remember Mark “Cuban” is not a Cuban. He doesn’t care about the US. It’s not his home. It’s just where he happens to reside at the moment. He’s not an American, he never will be American and most importantly, he knows it.

As preposterous as it sounds to us, in his sick and twisted mind, we could suddenly and for no reason whatsoever, break out in a fit of antisemitism and start building our own Sobibors and Auschwitzes. For this reason, this is not his home.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 month ago

“for no reason whatsoever” – Cuban knows the reasons.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
1 month ago

Strictly speaking, you are correct. However, “diversity,” as understood today in AINO, means non-white. And increasingly, it means negro. So, in selecting 90+% negroes for his roster, he’s hewing strongly to the diktats of diversity. Far better, of course, would be comprising his rosters of nuttin’ but nuggs. I imagine Steven A. Smith has rapped him on the knuckles about that a time or two.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I’ve been watching some of the March sportsball. I note that the two favored teams in the final 4 are heavily white, frequently with 4 or 5 white guys on the floor simultaneously. Even Alabama, historically known for coal black teams, has a couple of white guys out there on the regular. So far it seems like people are pretending this isn’t happening, I don’t hear a word about it. But I wonder if it is an early stage trend.

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

As the anti-white pogrom progresses in tandem with a popular culture that is effectively black culture you will probably see more and more white athletes excelling even in fast-twitch muscle fiber sports like basketball.

Sports will be at once a place where young white men can escape their new ghetto or in some cases embrace going into or coming out of the black ghetto.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  RealityRules
1 month ago

Whites becoming black. On the money.

Mycale
Mycale
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Right now, two of the best players in the NBA are European Whites. They’re on such a high tier relative to the rest of the league that the sports shouters will call you racist if you support them over their chosen black players. This is how one of them (Jokic) lost a MVP to an inferior player (Embiid) last year. Many, many of the White players in the NBA are European, to the point where it’s hard not to notice. I have long thought that the AAU system that basketball players grow in discriminates against Whites. It’s dominated by blacks… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

The reality is that white football and basketball players are undervalued, and the coaches who realize this–Danny Hurley, Matt Painter, etc.–have a huge advantage because it’s far easier to recruit these guys. The competition for their services is nowhere near as intense as it is for Shaq’Slay’vion Hembrick. As an aside, I strongly suspect whites, despite the institutionalized descrimination against them, will become increasingly prominent in basketball over the next 20 years or so. The reason for this is that white parents’ fear over concusions in football will cause them to veto little Kayden playing football and push him into… Read more »

steve w
steve w
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Ah, someone else noticed this too. I had literally paid no attention whatsoever to this year’s NCAA tournament until I decided to look at some UConn highlights just because they have been so dominant. I expected to see the usual dreadlocks, palming, travelling, showboating antics that have made basketball unwatchable. Imagine my surprise seeing three white starters anchoring a team that passes well, runs the floor, plays relentless defense and appears unbeatable. Maybe there is hope for basketball after all.

Templar
Templar
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

The heavily-white Winnipeg Blue Bombers beat the nearly all-black Calgary Stampeders rather handily during the 2022 CFL Grey Cup playoffs, IIRC.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I think that’s a better summary of Cuban’s views. It’s not that he opposes racism. He’s fully supports racism directed against whites.

That’s why they decided to redefine things such that blacks could not be racist. Even in a majority black city, run by majority or even exclusively black politicians, police, etc., they are victims of white oppression. Notice whenever we talk about the hellholes those cities become, they completely skip over the power angle they use elsewhere?

Templar
Templar
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Yes. Blacks apparently can’t exercise power even when they exercise power, according to the not-at-all-in-bad-faith-we-swear arguments of these people…

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
1 month ago

I’m sure Cuban would’ve played the Dirk Nowitzki card.

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
1 month ago

Left out of your picture, but clearly part of the same propaganda, is the owner of Twitter. Cuban and Musk have also gone back and forth on the topic too.

Yet, you reserve your criticism for these two. Why?

Put together your waxing poetic about Musk and the politics you promote, and you can’t help but wonder if the purpose here is to funnel dissidents to–and eventually get them to accept–the Thiel-Yarvin technocracy.

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  Punk in Drublic
1 month ago

I cannot ever recall Mr. Z Man “waxing poetic” about Musk. He seems to discuss his various merits and failings, always with an eye on the fact that he isn’t really on this side.

I must say, the commentaries on X or Twitter or whatever it is (Musk in this example), tend to bore me. But I’ve never looked at Z as a champion for Musk by any stretch.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

I’m happy to report I’ve never followed a single Twitter gabfest, although I’m required to post certain items there for one of my jobs.

Punk in Drublic
Punk in Drublic
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

Link me to where he says Musk isn’t on our side, please. Happy to admit I’m wrong.

Pozymandias
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

I think of Musk (and people in his league of wealth) somewhat the way I would think about an alien who came to Earth openly and started interacting with people the way they do with each other. He has the freedom to evaluate all this “human stuff” objectively and dispassionately just like our alien friend. So now you know what that freedom costs too – about 1/4 trillion.

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
1 month ago

It’s all so tiresome. I think what depresses me the most is that Rufoism is about as far as you’re going to get normal white people to go. Getting them to our side is nearly impossible. Even if they know it, it is considered unthinkable to accept that blacks are an inferior cognitive race. They will point to their black friend who has a high IQ and say “see?! You’re generalizing!”. To be fair, I’m sensitive to this issue because IMHO it is the only issue that matters and it is the foundation of the left’s existence. Diversity also doesn’t… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

You used to be a colorblind civnat, and I used to be a colorblind civnat, but it is a hopeless endeavor to get civnats to accept race realism. Hmmm.

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Let me clarify. It is impossible to get the masses of to come over. Yes, obviously there are exceptions. I just don’t see the bulk of white normies making that jump.

Drive-By Shooter
Drive-By Shooter
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

Why must the desires of the masses comprise a veto? Maybe you are thinking too democratically?

Consider shedding your pseudoshem for something less chained to contemporary forms and ways of society. Energetic Iconoclast, perhaps. Fake it ’til you make it.

Diversity Heretic
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Putting in my two cents worth, civnats (I was once one too) cannot be persuaded into race realism by force of argument. Some thing, or some process, will cause a civnat to realize that not all men and races are created equal, that evolution affected races differently, and that racial differences are largely responsible for different racial performances and comportment.

As the Good Witch of the North tells the characters in Oz before Dorothy returns to Kansas, “She had to find it out for herself.”

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Diversity Heretic
1 month ago

Excellent point. From my teenage years through my early 40s I fought valiantly to reject race realism. God only knows the casuistry, theology and rationalizations I deployed to deny the obvious truth of negro inferiority. To my mind, the truth was simply too monstrous to accept. Then, in the year 2010, a Hutu pack moved into the house across the street. And here I am at Z-man’s blog…

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I think that is what it take but it’s still not enough for some. What comes to mind is the retired police chief who was killed by the vibrants in the stolen car or Ethan Liming who was stomped to death.

The father rushed to tell the world it’s not about race. The chief’s daughter did the same thing.

Your son was murdered by violent animals and that isn’t enough…. Remarkable.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I never express an opinion about how tough it is for normal Whites to “convert” because I feel that my upbringing in Baltimore gave me an edge. Indeed, one of the few good things about growing up one of our East Coast or Midwestern big city shitholes is that you get a first hand, unfiltered look at the Negro. For me becoming a dissident was just a matter of abandoning what I had always felt was an ill-fitting false facade. I do not know if Whites from whiter parts of the country would find the transition as easy. I can… Read more »

Templar
Templar
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I was a confirmed CivNat until Obama’s election, whereupon I discovered that black Americans had apparently voted en-massse for the Hawaiian stoner regardless of their previously-stated political affiliation. Many, increasingly uncomfortable questions followed this initial shock to my earnestly-held assumptions about race at the time…

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Diversity Heretic
1 month ago

civnats (I was once one too) cannot be persuaded into race realism by force of argument. True, so far as it goes. Civnats have a picture in their minds of how a colorblind society would work, kumbyah and all. In order to compete with that, you need not argument, but a better vision of the future that comports with their moral framing. It can’t just be, “Take that picture and erase all the Jews and blacks and browns” unless you can explain a path to that place that also comports with morality. You are never going to argue whites into… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Steve, can civnats be convinced that non-whites cannot be colorblind? (That is the observation that changed my mind, because there’s nothing that we can do about it.)

Respectfully, you have a feel for the civnats. What do you think?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Steve, can civnats be convinced that non-whites cannot be colorblind?

In my experience, no. NAXALT and all that, but on the whole, they are convinced that they are taking the moral high road, and only rarely will one abandon his morality for argument. And it’s a little dangerous to trust anyone whose morals were so easily set aside.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

@LineInTheSand, I did respond, but it got caught in the spam filter for some reason. It will probably be approved. Sometime.

Short answer, no. CivNats are what they are because of principle. They will not abandon their moral answer for empirical evidence, particularly after the games that have been played with climate change and COVID. You need to replace their moral principle with a better moral principle.

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

The issue is percentages. You fail to account for the general sentiment – note Tired’s use of “normal.” You are doing the exact thing he mocked, taking an exception and making it the rule.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

“reality greatly disagrees with fantasy”

Nice way of putting it

Rowdy Moody
Rowdy Moody
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

As to your friend accusing you of generalizing about blacks, a quote from Goethe sums it up nicely:
“I have often felt a bitter sorrow at the thought of the German people, which is so estimable in the individual and so wretched in the generality…”
Just substitute ‘the black people’ for the ‘German people’ and there you have it.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Rowdy Moody
1 month ago

It’s amazing how hard German intellectuals have been on their own people. Schopenhauer, for instance, considered them to be stupid.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

So did Nietzsche…

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Xman
1 month ago

When you’re as smart as Goethe, Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, everybody appears stupid. And I ought to know! (-:

steve w
steve w
Reply to  Rowdy Moody
1 month ago

Or Jonathan Swift: ‘I have ever hated all Nations professions and Communityes and all my love is towards individualls for instance I hate the tribe of Lawyers, but I love Councellor such a one, Judge such a one for so with Physicians (I will not Speak of my own Trade) Soldiers, English, Escotch, French; and the rest but principally I hate and detest that animal called man, although I heartily love John, Peter, Thomas, and so forth. This is the system upon which I have governed my self for many years…’ Substitute for ‘that animal called man’ with, well, you… Read more »

steve w
steve w
Reply to  steve w
1 month ago

And to be clear: the dilemma is not ideological, but entirely personal. All one can do is avoid certain topics or else let ideology overrule affections. Which is what the Left does every day.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  steve w
1 month ago

Hate to say it, but any good and intelligent human being is most certainly an exception. Of course, such is less exceptional among whites than negroes.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

Diversity is good, more diversity is better, and complete diversity is best. Ergo, bye bye whitey.

Diversity is nothing more than the rhetorical device cloaking the plot to effectively eliminate whites by submerging them in a sea of non-whites.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

“My black worship center desperately tries to hire non whites but has struggled to do so.”

That was true in my grad school program thirty years ago. Our department chair told the student newspaper, verbatim, that he was “bending over backwards” trying to hire a black professor.

He finally did, and the guy lasted a year. The black dude kept moving on from one university to the next, playing the affirmative action con.

I recently looked him up — thirty years later, he’s doing visiting professor gigs and isn’t tenured. Apparently his “academic work” is on “racism in academe”…

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

Hey TC. It was you who coined the term Black Worship Center. That is brilliant and spot on. Well done. I’ve done time in a BWC or two the past 15 years. I have to agree with J Zoar. I have a similar background and path as him. We cannot despair. There are those who the BWC humiliations and who can foresee the endgame who this pogrom have woken up early. I am one of them. More and more white people are finding themselves left out or pushed out. Once you take away the promises and it is no longer… Read more »

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

The left “democrats” are the side of vengeance. The center – right “normies / republicans” are the side of guilt – pity.

Therefore race realists, we here are out numbered.

Hi-ya!
Hi-ya!
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

Zman needs the crredit to turning me to the dark side. I listened to his podcast I don’t know how I discovered it. But zril science drew me in and “Africa is Africa because it is filled with Africans” was all the push I needed to become a hate filled bigot. Thanks, Mr man!

steve w
steve w
Reply to  Hi-ya!
1 month ago

And Norway is Norway because it is filled with Norwegians. We used to get lectures in the 1980s about the successful “socialisms” of northern Europe. Don’t hear that stuff anymore. As soon as some wiseguys started to point out that Norway, Sweden etc were small homogeneous white countries, those lectures stopped. Very awkward.

Zulu Juliet
Zulu Juliet
Reply to  steve w
1 month ago

I tried that line “Japan is like it is because it’s full of Japanese, and Somalia is like it is because its full of Somalians”. The lib I was using it on, a Harvard grad with a Phd in Chemistry from Sanford denied the truth of the statement. So simple, it plumb evaded him.

Archie Parr
Archie Parr
1 month ago

Conservatives like Rufo believe those to his left are racist, whereas Cuban believes those to his right are racist. I’ve never seen any difference between mainstream American progressivism and conservativism when it comes to this.

For example, if you dropped into a conversation between these two without any knowledge of their other political beliefs, one would be justified — after listening to them call each other racist for 30 minutes — that these are children and nothing more. It is pathetic to have to live among these fools.

Cloudswrest
Cloudswrest
1 month ago

Cuban thinks diversity makes things better

Wikipedia early life section confirms …

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Cloudswrest
1 month ago

Well, he’s not actually Cuban, you know…

Hi-ya!
Hi-ya!
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

He’s getting him mixed up with majorkis…

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Cloudswrest
1 month ago

Too much credit. He’s not even smart enough to understand what you’re implying—as in, Kevin MacDonald-like formulations are beyond Cuban’s ability to recognize, let alone to scheme. His hostility to white Americans, evident even in his choice of Mavericks, may be rooted in an ethnic tendency. And it’s encouraged by the billionaire/media social milieu, also highly “ethnic.” But the reason he claims diversity is a universal good is because he’s stupid. Reality and his mind have never met. Additionally— “Despite being a billionaire…” Listen to a billionaire talk, or if you really want to be stunned, read his book. Any… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
1 month ago

Forced integration leads to race- and culture-mixing, which is profitable until the well runs dry, because it makes it easier to cheat, loot, and manipulate, because people become unmoored and confused. Blank Slate was/is folly. Civil Rights, Multiculturalism, and DEI were/are scams to keep the game going. Prove me wrong.

Jannie
Jannie
1 month ago

Aw, come on! Lay off Rufo! It’s like dwarves griping about elves’ efforts against Mordor in here!

He literally just got the University of Texas to abolish its DEI apparatus:

https://christopherrufo.com/p/abolished?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1248321&post_id=143244653&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=b725u&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

No wonder he gets regular death threats from the Left. He’s actually out there fighting – and winning – while too many on our side are whining and carping, caught up in purity spirals that only lead to inaction. The few bucks I throw his way (as with Z) I consider money well spent.

Let’s remember who the enemy is.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jannie
1 month ago

Jannie: Zman is not attacking him. He’s simply using him as an example of one of the many flaws of conservatards. The “enemy” is anyone who is not explicitly pro-White. Since Rufo is pushing standard color-blindness, he is not “winning” anything for White people generally and the dissident right specifically. He is also married to a Thai – who may be a lovely woman – but as the father of mixed-race children he is of minimal utility as a purported ‘defender’ of White people. Just like J.D. Vance, who’s married to a subcon and has brown children. This makes people… Read more »

Janne
Janne
Reply to  3g4me
1 month ago

Show me the “explicitly pro-White” activist who is having Rufo’s impact. In France there is Marion Marechal and Eric Zemmour (Jewish and also a French patriot – yes, we used to have those in America, like Irving Berlin), I don’t see anyone like them in America. So who do we have? Rufo’s work is importantly rolling back the enemy. We can argue the toss with him over race later. The reality is that we live in a multiracial society, and we either enforce an apartheid system for winners and losers, enforce a colorblind system like Singapore (https://says.com/my/news/lee-kuan-yew-on-race-based-politics-and-why-it-will-destroy-our-society), Balkanize like Yugoslavia,… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Janne
1 month ago

I like your post, especially your penultimate sentence. However, colorblind admissions to universities won’t result in an East Asian ruling class for two reasons. First, their IQ advantage over whites is only marginal. Second, the percentage of East Asians in AINO is much smaller than the white percentage.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Truth. I’m not in the slightest worried about Asians. While they are great at copying and making minor improvements, very few of them create anything new. To be fair, that’s true of all groups, but whites disproportionately have that little extra perseverance or stubbornness or whatever that puts them over the top. Edison’s 99% perspiration.

Now if the civnats turn out to be right and that’s not genetic but cultural, well, we still outnumber them…

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Janne
1 month ago

Jannie: In regards to any public pundit’s success and impact, I have to honestly admit I don’t follow or listen to any of them – so I only know what I read about them elsewhere. All I know about Rufo is what Zman has discussed here. And as far as UT dropping DEI, my understanding was that was now required by state law, broadly supported by Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (much more pro-White than phony Abbott) – I don’t know that the law can be attributed to Rufo’s influence. I understand your point that we live in a multiracial society,… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  3g4me
1 month ago

– any legitimate state has an interest in marriage as the fundamental building block of any civilized society. –

Agree 100%. Moreover, marriage is a public act and demands public recognition, therefore the public has every right to set parameters of what it will publicly recognize. If you want to playhouse on your own, fine. If you want to force everyone else to play along, then everyone else gets a say.

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  3g4me
1 month ago

Ad to that list John Derbyshire. Asian bride…

Ponsonby
Member
Reply to  Vinnyvette
1 month ago

And of course Ginny Thomas, married to Clarence

Sgt Pedantry
Sgt Pedantry
Reply to  Jannie
1 month ago

Z pushes the “losers lose becaues they are stupid and play by the winners’ rules” bit. Which is a great bit, because it happens to be true. But you see that he only applies this to moral claims surrounding blacks. In other words, he only punches down. Which is, as he has pointed out ad nauseum, right out of the Ben Shapiro playbook. It is also, as I and others have pointed out, Jared Taylor’s MO as well. When it comes to Jews, Z slaps on a midwit cap and reinforces regime morality: he wants you to know he is… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Jannie
1 month ago

I have no problem with Rufo. He’s useful to my cause, but we aren’t on the same side. That’s fine. That’s the beauty of knowing who your people are. You can ally with other groups who might benefit your groups, but both sides understand the arrangement.

People like him move the ball in the general direction that we want it to go, but they want to take it in a different direction down the road. That’s okay. We part ways at that point.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jannie
1 month ago

Fair enough and all to the good. However, it does nothing to vitiate Z’s point that neither of those guys, in the long term, are on our side. But, yes, to the extent Rufo is a thorn in the Left’s side and manages to win a few battles, functionally if not philosophically, for whites, I’ll raise my flagon of ale to the man.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
1 month ago

While the X exchange was fun to watch, it really had “Ben Shapiro DESTORYS another brain dead Marxist 20 year old at local community college” vibes. Nothing changes, nothing happens. Clever arguments by Rufo don’t do anything. The left may concede your carefully argued point, then proceed to smash you in the mouth, burn down your business, take away your bank account, shut down your internet access, and make you toxic to be seen with. Then the right will point out this was “wrong”. Ad infinitum. Sigh. I’d put my money on Mark “Chabenisky” Cuban. His grandfather was smart enought… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  ProZNoV
1 month ago

Someone commented that Cuban will lose the argument because he can’t deplatform Rufo. Probably one of the most pithy explanations of modern discourse I’ve read.

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
1 month ago

“Rufo thinks using race to make decisions is immoral, while Cuban thinks whites use race to make decisions, which is bad.”

An example of “false dichotomy.” An old trick in demagoguery and fallacious reasoning. And this particular false dichotomy means excluding the stance that differences between races are real and that making judgements and decisions on this basis is wrong.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

Yep…All stereotypes are based on reality…To assume, a priori, that a black single mother will be just as reliable in a job as a married white mother would be simply ridiculous…The 10% of the time when it’s true will not make up for the 90% of the time when the black single mother creates a lot
of problems….

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

Arshad Ali: But the basic issue, as Zman notes, is even more fundamental than that. Does one have a right to one’s own preferences, for any reason at all? Even if a particular non-White is genuinely qualified, it’s perfectly legitimate to not wish to hire him because of the automatic limits it will place on workplace conversations and cooperation. It’s also perfectly legitimate to not wish to hire him for any reason at all – simply because that is one’s preference and prerogative. When I was interviewing people to replace me when I returned to grad school (for my second… Read more »

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  3g4me
1 month ago

Heh. Regarding black applicants, particularly those blacks from the actual continent of Africa, self-employed friends of mine in a certain industry would often share very amusing stories.

My personal favourite was a recollection by one friend of a CV he was forwarded from a fellow from Uganda. After listing his educational achievements, the CV flowed thusly:

Experience/Work History

I have experience.

He’s probably a head-honcho at Boeing now!

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

My wife works at a libertarian think tank of sorts that, believe it or not, is housed by a university. This organization dispenses fellowships for which they receive numerous applicants. Recently, they gave one of these fellowships to an applicant from Malawi. His application packet was suitably impressive. Once he arrived, however, it was discovered that he was literally too stupid to perform the function of alphabetization. He’s no longer with the program. But, being libertarians, they won’t learn the proper lesson and subject future sub-Saharan applicants to extra-strict scrutiny.

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

Noggers (er, blacks, er, people of color, I mean) are always given the benefit of the doubt. With regard to resumes, if it’s anyone but black, the resume is scrutinised for flaws, shortcomings, white lies. With blacks, anything positive in the resume is thought of as an excuse to invite the black for interview. Very different scales are used,

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

Or that races are real and making judgments and decisions on this basis is fine.

george 1
george 1
1 month ago

The truth regarding the ultimate results of diversity is that in America, given the current replacement rates, within this decade most whites in most places will probably be better off living in South Africa.

Cuban’s and Rufo’s erroneous thoughts not withstanding.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  george 1
1 month ago

But probably you would be better off living in Russia, Japan, or SE Asia than South Africa….

george 1
george 1
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

Oh, no doubt about that.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

There’s a third side, or perhaps a second wing to Rufo’s side: the Sailer/Murray (SM) wing. SM acknowledge genetic racial differences but fall back to colorblindness. Yes, there will be more Asian engineers per capita than blacks due to differing group IQs, but any individual Asian or black could fall on the left or right side of the bell curve so you must to treat everyone as an individual. However, as subversive as SM seem on first glance, they still fully accept the moral framework of our ruling class. Both Sailer and Murray are firmly against freedom of association, especially… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Sailer and Murray fall back into individualism. They are true believers in colorblind civic nationalism. The irony of CivNat dream team is that while they accept differences in group IQ and other behavioral characteristics, they simultaneously refuse to accept that those genetic differences might extend into political beliefs or societal norms. It comes back to your debate with Anton about natural rights. Sailer and Murray are no different than liberal whites who might reluctantly accept that there may be group genetic differences in athletic ability or skin color or height or bone structure, but then insist that the brain is… Read more »

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

HBD Chick also evades the subject, but JayMan, a Jamaican who has done a lot of research, is a hardcore realist…

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

I thought that it turned out that HBD Chick was actually a dude.

That said, I learned a lot from him/her from their writing on the Hajnal Line.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

pyrrhus: I used to skim HBD Chick’s blog, but I deliberately avoided JayMan. I know, I’ve said before someone can be ‘x’ and also correct, but I just couldn’t do it. He is, I believe, married to a White, which I find totally out of bounds. Plus my government work experience in Jamaica left me with less than charitable feelings towards the denizens of that benighted island.

Brandon Laskow
Brandon Laskow
Reply to  3g4me
1 month ago

HBD had an annoying practice of disregarding the capitalization rules of standard written English. Some people don’t realize that these rules exist for a reason, and that when they are not followed it makes text difficult to read.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Our Citizen harshing Steve’s mellow: https://www.unz.com/isteve/biden-administration-race-doesnt-exist-but/#comment-6498945

Also, our friend Intelligent Dasein gives his perspective on Z Man’s site: https://www.unz.com/isteve/biden-administration-race-doesnt-exist-but/#comment-6499989

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 month ago

Heh. Whilst I often skim over ID’s comments because, from experience they tend to be overlong and use too many big words/links I cannot quite fathom, I find him generally a respectful commenter.

But his opening salvo in that second link is a bit hyperbolic, I’d say.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Not sure what you did to that guy, but he’s not a fan of yours. Of course, he’s insane, so there’s that.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

ID is a spurned lover. He came here to enlighten we, the benighted. He failed to gain an admiring audience, so he now spitefully condemns this blog and its creator Z-man.

I remember only one direct slight/response from Z-man to ID—that of accusing him of having basically a rudimentary, freshman, understanding of the topic at large. For a man of ID’s ego, this must have been crushing.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Citizen of a Silly Country: “Of course, he’s insane, so there’s that.” Oh, glad I’m not the only one who noticed. And I mean insane literally. Found out one day when I got into an exchange with him on the old Audacious Epigone blog when it was at Unz. He started saying really crazy things, such as (in the context of a discussion on the agricultural revolution and maybe the industrial revolution — it’s been a while) it is impossible to build a machine that saves labor because the design, construction, support and maintenance of the machine will always require… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 month ago

Yanking Steve’s chain and, really, the vast majority of his readers is a guilty pleasure of mine. I have to say that his comments board is getting more and more narrow. It’s a good sign that people have moved on. Sailer is an (inadvertent, I think) gatekeeper. It’s always easy to tell. A gatekeeper will always be against whites having the choice to identify as a group, i.e., true freedom of association. Now, they’ll couch it in being against anyone identifying as part of a racial group and organizing to protect and promote that group, but they’ll give a pass… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

Citizen: Spot on as usual. The utility of someone (to the dissident right cause) ultimately boils down to one question – which I believe you, yourself, first posed thusly: Who are your people? Anyone – no matter how kind, likeable, or erudite – who cannot unequivocally reply “White” is not an ally. Mixed marriages and mixed-race children are also dead giveaways. No, I’m not personally attacking Derbyshire’s wife – I’m sure she’s perfectly nice – but he’s always made a point of promoting Western Civilization without making it explicit that such would not exist without White people. He has to… Read more »

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

I’ve never really read much Sailer, perhaps something at Taki’s many moons ago, but can’t recall what it was. My understanding however, is that he harps endlessly on about ‘IQ’ and ‘statisticks’ until it becomes rather tiresome. I find the old trope about ‘smart Asians’ highly amusing. As if IQ is the guarantee of life success and scientific and engineering ingenuity. My thought has always been: “If you boys were so smart, how come Europe industrialised?”. I’m told that there were many sophisticated thinkers and the like in Asiatic society. That’s fair enough, but a huge gulf appears between European… Read more »

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

All true… all true. Just one teensie weensie problem and fly in the ointment which is where we find ourselves Right Now. Like or not, we *did* get Here (Clown World) from There (Palestrina, Michelangelo, Leibniz, Newton, Gauss, Maxwell, Goethe, Schubert, etc., etc.). And no, it wasn’t just the Usual Suspects who led us astray. There’s something possibly cancerous at the core of Western Civ — and I’m pretty sure it comes with the whole Faustian Man type territory. We’re all very good on the You-know-whos lacking self-awareness, but this seems to be our Achilles Heel. It might just be… Read more »

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

And Sailer takes a lot of flack about this on his blog at Unz, but he probably needs to steer clear in order to protect his status…

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

Steve definitely likes to be a part of the punditry class, which steers him away from various topics or noticing too much.

He really has become pretty boring over the past few years. He mocks stupid opinion pieces in the MSM (similar to Shapiro dunking on college freshmen), but never asks who supports these outlets and why.

Other than that, he really loves black traffic statistics.

He just doesn’t have much to say anymore.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

The only thing holding back his full transition to late-in-life woman-on-Twitter is his faith in (or fetish for) things graphed by race.

We can judge what he’s passionate about by what he makes short, angry, unconsidered comments about. Reduced to a sentence: He’s a partisan Democrat who hates white losers for not knowing their place.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

If Steve got his way, he would inevitably have to enforce colorblindness on the non-whites. Leaving aside the impossibility of forcing the chosen to be colorblind, Steve would have to impose colorblindness on the blacks, which would require a heavy hand similar to Jim Crow. This wouldn’t mean enforcing sundown laws, but it would entail suppressing black power organizing. With a hat tip to our Silly Citizen for his analogy, this is like holding a chair over your head forever. Maybe you could do it, but at some point you tire of the task. In closing, I try to be… Read more »

Coalclinker
Coalclinker
1 month ago

Mark Cuban? A lovely Name-Changer he is. There are 3 kinds of people I know who are the kind to piss down your back, then tell you that it’s raining- gaslighting Democrat Communists, Ivy League “educated” folk, and people whose religion tells them you can’t eat pig, and that you have to marry someone whose religion also tells them you can’t eat pig. But they can drink alcohol. Well, Mark Cuban hits two of those categories. And Rufo hits one of them. Who gives a flying shit about what they have to say. They’re Cloud People, and their last act… Read more »

Brandon Laskow
Brandon Laskow
Reply to  Coalclinker
1 month ago

I rather doubt that Mark Cuban keeps kosher. Only a small minority of American Jews do so.

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Brandon Laskow
1 month ago

Totally OT, but I’m now pondering the question of whether or not prairie oysters are kosher. Might have to email David Goldman (Spengler) to get the low down on this.

Tom K
Tom K
1 month ago

Americans think that if something is good, more of the same is always better. That’s a fallacy. Diversity can be good in particular instances. I always think of the example of the Navajo code-talkers during WWII. The Japanese could never crack the American ciphers because they were being sent in the Navajo language on top of the best cryptographic techniques available at that time. But our betters think in simplistic terms. What people mean when they speak of “Diversity” today is obviously causing great harm. Part of the dark triad of DEI. The U.S. is a nuclear power with mental… Read more »

WCiv911
WCiv911
Reply to  Tom K
1 month ago

“The U.S. is a nuclear power with mental midgets calling the shots. Lord help us.”

This is the scariest thought of all. Our Commander in Chief, F’nJB has the power to launch or not to launch. To render our planet uninhabitable for humans. Let that sink in a moment. Should he stumble a bit, no worries, his VP can take command.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIjy4K04yGg

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  WCiv911
1 month ago

These days there are good reasons to believe the president, whether Trump or Biden or whomever, doesn’t have the amount of control over the nukes that he is ostensibly supposed to have.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Zoar, I’d agree. Really, do people think the President can simply pick up the phone or type in a code and away the missiles fly? Not a chance. Never was, never can be. The military sets the targets, prepares the weapons, and so forth. Much discussion/planning precedes such. It’s only at the end, that the President signals through the “football” that this plan goes hot. How does a demented old man even begin to convince the joint chiefs to plan such an attack? That being said, there are a lot of slimeballs in the back ground that probably can get… Read more »

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  WCiv911
1 month ago

The most recent book on the subject “Nuclear War, a Scenario” suggests that yes, the president does have this capability. Worse: if it’s an inbound ICBM, he has roughly six minutes to make the decision on how to respond. That’s in a best case scenario. He can delegate this authority, but even that takes time. The “reestablish deterrence” protocols after a one off icbm from, say, North Korea require a mass response, overwhelmingly punishing nuclear response. Which, because our ICBMs have to fly over Russia, whose satellites aren’t that great, will probably mean they launch. Game over. Nuclear war isn’t… Read more »

Drive-By Shooter
Drive-By Shooter
Reply to  Tom K
1 month ago

It’s funny that DEI is the genitive form of deus (2nd declension) given the cultish passion of some congregants. Priests and deacons, however, understand the cult’s project as

Demonize
Immobilize
Excommunicate.

In one respect we ought to call it good. Most favored old organizations and organizational habits need to be shattered and smashed, and I’m not talking about only those of Americans.

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
Reply to  Drive-By Shooter
1 month ago

How about:
Degradation
Exclusion
Intolerance

or my current favorite:
Didn’t
Earn
It

Drive-By Shooter
Drive-By Shooter
Reply to  BigJimSportCamper
1 month ago

The latter for those who stick around, plus

Denounce
Everyone
Included

People like that usually turn on each other after the initial objects of their malice have been eliminated.

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
1 month ago

Despite appearing to be opposites, both sides are making the same moral claims with regards to race. Heh. Isn’t this always the way? One person seems like he may be talking sense; but in the end, both would have you jailed for suggesting that blacks cannot function well in white societies. Or perhaps some other utterance that contradicts what they believe to be true. The simple fact, I believe, is that both of these people recognise the reality of race; I mean, this ‘Twitter exchange’ wouldn’t have happened without race being a thing that people have an opinion on. They… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

That does seem to cut both ways.
I was in a discussion with some lefty who said (in so many words) “I think black failures are caused strictly by external circumstances, unlike those boomers!”
To which I said “I have some news for you…”

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  OrangeFrog
1 month ago

So will any ethnicity except us brainwashed Whiteys. I was living in Macau back when a busload of Hong Kong Chinese tourists got shot up during a hijack in Manila. Things made worse by the typically bungled typically baked-in-comes-with-the-genes clownish Filipino SWAT team which probably did most of the damage. For the next week or so, no bus driver would stop for anyone Brown-looking. So all the Filipino and Indonesian maids had to walk. It wasn’t just ethnic solidarity, there was Han open contempt for the incompetent stupidity of an inferior race. This is the Way. Not nice. Not kind.… Read more »

Getthemoneyfromtheseskels
Getthemoneyfromtheseskels
1 month ago

All opinions. Ah, the blogger’s attention finally cirlces around to this Mark Chabenisky, aka Mark Cuban. They have not scrubbed his early life, but at least his father apparently made an honest living. This clownworld princeling is easily examined if one spends 30 seconds. “Cuban Hops into Bed with Girls Gone Wild” https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/weird/cuban-hops-into-bed-with-girls-gone-wild/2117403/ “Mark Cuban’s HDNet television network is teaming up with “Girls Gone Wild” to produce a reality show to find the hottest girl in America. Yes, this Girls Gone Wild is the same brand that is known for lewd DVDs of young women exposing themselves on camera.” And:… Read more »

Horace
Horace
Reply to  Getthemoneyfromtheseskels
1 month ago

There are 3 solutions to this problem: deport, expel, and remigrate.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Horace
1 month ago

You need to come up with a word for “remigrate” that starts with “i”.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Incarcerate would work, but I don’t want to pay room and board.

For the truly morbid, how about immolate? Incinerate?

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Getthemoneyfromtheseskels
1 month ago

Jews and pornography go together like a horse and carriage.

joey jünger
joey jünger
1 month ago

For many years, the people in charge and their minions seemed to put a lot of energy into formally ignoring us. They’d invite the antiracists who advocated strenuously for restorative justice, and they’d invite the colorblind hustlers like Rufo to argue the opposite position. They knew we monsters who didn’t care one way or the other dwelled beyond the castle walls—and some of us were even daywalkers who kept quiet within the walls—but the game was to ignore us. Being ignored can be annoying, but I actually kind of miss those days. Now, we seem to be all they really… Read more »

Götterdamn-it-all
Götterdamn-it-all
Reply to  joey jünger
1 month ago

I’m reminded of Marylin Monroe’s remark about finally becoming a wealthy star: “Thank god I don’t have to fuck any more fat Jewish men.”

Barnard
Barnard
1 month ago

Mark Cuban is a billionaire because he got lucky and sold broacast.com to Yahoo shortly before the dot com bubble burst. His net worth hasn’t really increased that much since then. Still it is a condemnation of our education system that he doesn’t know the basics about the government. I doubt you can even blame it on his public school education, his prep school peers wouldn’t be any better.

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Good point, his profit on the percentage of the Mavericks he just sold is over $2 billion. He has to have taken big losses on other businesses to have as low a net worth as he does.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
1 month ago

Rufo has an Asian wife, so of course he’s not going to be doing white advocacy when his children are mixed race. This is also something people used to understand. Some outbreeding is beneficial to a group, but the cosmopolitans that marry outside their tribe still have to be kept at arm’s length, as their core loyalties are conflicted. It’s another obvious truth that we have to pretend doesn’t exist because it sounds mean.

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

If he’s as Jewish as he’s made out to be I can hardly blame him for his decision to marry outside of his race.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

My kids are mixed race too. My wife is Irish and I’m Italian.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  c matt
1 month ago

If you’re northern Italian you get a pass

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Marko
1 month ago

There is no other kind of Italian

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  c matt
1 month ago

I’m in a mixed marriage too: I’m a man and my wife is a woman.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 month ago

I think you can do white advocacy even if you’re mixed-race or nonwhite.

The problem comes when you’re advocating for racial purity. Folks obsessed with that should probably decide who is white or isn’t white enough, and then marry in-race.

My Comment
My Comment
1 month ago

Nothing like yet another debate on diversity between people who shield themselves from vibrancy as much as possible while prescribing it as a moral good to the masses

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  My Comment
1 month ago

One of the stranger parts with Cuban is that he spends a lot of time around NBA players who on average are not just dumb, but the dumbest pro athletes. It is impossible he doesn’t notice even with his average level of intelligence. Maybe it is just coincidence, but his star players tend to be white Europeans. Perhaps he is overcompensating a bit in an effort to not have blacks make too big a deal out of that.

My Comment
My Comment
Reply to  Barnard
1 month ago

Suggest reading Wolfe’s Radical Chic. Many Jews like Cuban like to be seen associating with boys from the hood. They just don’t want to live around them or have their kids go to school with them

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Barnard
1 month ago

Cuban is a typical Jew. He loves being around basketball and blacks. (Also like a typical Jew, he doesn’t want to live around blacks.)

He’s basically just a lucky billionaire version of the Adam Sandler character in Uncut Gems.

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

I understand why he owned the team I don’t understand how it can’t click with him that these guys are on average really, really, dumb. Maybe he is so invested in it he just refuses to go there.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Barnard
1 month ago

The shockingly radical disconnect from reality–not just by Finkels, by the way, but by whites, too–is one of the signal markers of our age.

Dr_Mantis_Toboggan_MD
Member
Reply to  Barnard
1 month ago

As a former college basketball and baseball player at a small state commuter school, I can back up that assertion. Our hoops program had more tutors than we did coaches and other on-court and off-court support staff. Why is that? Because most of my teammates read on a 3rd grade reading level and had to have their classwork done for them so they could remain eligible. They would also get in trouble in the most idiotic ways outside of the classroom, making my coach’s job that of herding cats. One teammate was arrested after he had an accidental discharge in… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Dr_Mantis_Toboggan_MD
1 month ago

Interesting. I notice the same in my sport – soccer. Seems the blacks on our team have a better sport and general IQ than I have noticed among basketball Americans

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Dr_Mantis_Toboggan_MD
1 month ago

Wife picked up a tutoring job for the athletic department when we were graduate students. It was in a class that most all athletes took, so she basically held classroom large tutorials or discussion sections if you will. Money is money and we were grad students paying our own way, so she took the job. She was given *one* instruction from the athletic department. She was to meet with a particular assistant coach *outside* of the classroom (in the athletic center complex). She and the assistant coach would then enter the classroom and begin the session. She was told under… Read more »

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
1 month ago

To advance equality, Mark Cuban’s $5.4 billion net worth ought to be taxed 100% and given to BLM.