For fifty years abortion was a part of the national political debate due to the fight to overturn Roe v. Wade. Those who opposed abortion sought to overturn this court decision, thus returning the issue to the people. The pro-life side assumed they could win the argument and get laws passed to end most abortions. The pro-abortion people obviously fought to prevent this, even though they always claimed the vast majority of the people saw abortion as a holy sacrament.
Abortion was always a good money maker for Conservative Inc. because on the one hand, they only had to pay lip service to the moral issue. It was not as if they could pass legislation or change a regulation to meet the demands of their voters. The courts would just strike down those changes. On the other hand, the only path to victory was getting a majority of pro-life people in office, especially the White house, so the courts could be stocked with pro-life judges. That meant voting Republican.
The way the two party grift has worked since the middle of the last century was that the Democrats conjure novel ideas and find creative ways to normalize them with the progressive segment of the population. Once these ideas gain circulation, the Republicans pretend to oppose these new ideas. Both sides squabble over it, thus narrowing the options to their preferred positions. Then they aggressively fundraise off it as the novel ideas are slowly implemented.
The genius of this arrangement is the elites get what they want, while both parties protect themselves from outside threats by sucking all the oxygen out of the room in their endless media debates. With the oxygen comes the money, which keeps both camps in the lifestyle they think they deserve. Just as important, none of that money goes to anyone who has a third opinion. The political rackets rest on every issue being reduce to a binary choice.
Here is where you can see why the ruling class hates Trump. When he ran for office, he went to the pro-life crowd with a rational offer, rather than the old offer they have always got from conservatives. He told them he needed their vote and even though he was not one of them, he would deliver for them because he needed their vote. Social conservatives, outside of the professional ones, saw this as a rational offer and maybe better than what they have gotten for the last fifty years.
In office, Trump did what he saw as the rational thing and set about appointing pro-life judges up and down the system. From his point of view, this made perfect sense as he would need the support of these people in the next election. If he could show he delivered, then they would come out in droves. His good fortune was that things broke in such a way that the court finally overturned Roe. Both parties hate him because of things like this that disrupt the political rackets.
Putting that aside, the overturn of Roe was a disaster for Pro-Life Inc and the elite of the social conservativism rackets. They no longer had this issue to use in their fundraisers, other than to wage battles at the state level. Since the leaders of these rackets live in swanky homes around the imperial capital, heading out to the wilderness to help the Dirt People wage political fights is horrifying. This idea is equivalent to Pol Pot sending the intellectuals out to the rice fields.
Since the court sent the issue back to the states, the people running for national office no longer have a reason to primp and preen about abortion. If the national candidates stop talking about abortion, the associated money rackets no longer have a reason to raise money to help “their candidates.” That means the money givers no longer have a reason to give money to these guys. Suddenly, thanks to Trump, a billion-dollar industry is threatened with extinction. What to do?
This is why we now have the mass media claiming abortion is the most important issue on the minds of voters. If a Democrat wins a race for dog catcher in East Podunk Missouri, the Washington Post has a pic of young females standing in line to vote, with the claim they are there because of abortion. The political experts, who are always wrong about everything, rush in to explain how this is a threat to Trump as women too busy in their cubicles to have sex are furious about abortion.
It is all nonsense, but despite the fact the media is nothing but a firehose of lies, people still fall for these tricks, especially people who call themselves conservative. Integral to being a conservative is accepting without question the opinions of your enemies while endlessly tone policing your supporters. If the New York Times announces that the cool kids are now wearing flowerpots on their heads, conservatives will swear it is true and produce the conservative case for flowerpots.
This is where Conservative Inc. has swung into action on abortion. Their new scheme to re-nationalize the issue is to champion a national ban on abortion. You see, their big idea now that the courts sent the issue back to the states, something conservatives argued for since Roe, is to take it back from the states and pass a bill that bans all abortion at the federal level. Of course, they cannot do this without your support so make your check out to Conservative Inc.
The only way such a scheme could ever happen is if the Republicans had a huge majority in the House, a super-majority in the Senate and had a pro-life president in the White House. Thanks to Republican support for open borders and election rigging, this is now impossible. Even if it did happen, the Bush years tell us that they would fink on their voters anyway. Remember fake evangelical George Bush nominating pro-abortion Harriet Miers to the court?
Abortion is a good example of why moral issues cannot be decided through any sort of democratic process. Even if the process is legitimate and the participants come to the issue in good faith, you will not get universal agreement. If such an agreement were possible, it would have happened organically and then the only politics around the issue would be about the best policy to support the moral consensus. Otherwise, there is no debating someone out of their sense of right and wrong.
This is why the scam that is the American political system loves moral issues like abortion, because they can never be solved politically. This means they can frame it as two sides with neither side ever having a chance to fully win. Roe was manna from heaven for Conservative Inc., but now the overturning of Roe is manna from Gaia for the aging spinsters running the feminism rackets. They can finally stop talking about men in dresses waving their genitals at children.
If one is looking for a white pill in these dark times it is that the abortion issue has finally returned to its natural place. Like all moral issues, it is one that must be decided by the collective agreement of likeminded people. This means it is a local issue. States and localities can then treat abortion the same way they manage other thorny moral issues like the location of gentlemen’s clubs. In the end, sanity prevailed, and abortion has become something for communities to resolve on their own.
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“it is that the abortion issue has finally returned to its natural place. Like all moral issues, it is one that must be decided by the collective agreement of likeminded people. This means it is a local issue.” It really should just be an individual choice, just as your diet or school choice for your children. Do whatever you like with your body. You want an abortion? Go for it, I am not forcing anyone to raise children they don’t want. Morality is simply tyranny of the majority over personal ethical choices. Simply because a group decides abortion is good… Read more »
The pro lifers really got caught napping in 2022. I think you’ll see much stronger voter participation in future state-level contests. That being said, most outright bans will lose 60-40. The pro lifers need to focus on why abortions are down 30-40% from 1990. Good health care, other contraceptive options, and good old “SCIENCE!” To wit: Bring forward state constitutional amendments guaranteeing every parent free 3D ultrasounds of their baby at 10, 20, 30 and 35 weeks. And another one exempting parents from paying state taxes of any kind FOR LIFE if they raise at least 3 children to the… Read more »
“The pro lifers need to focus on why abortions are down 30-40% from 1990.”
That’s a loaded statement! Who/whom lol.
I don’t see how it’s a loaded statement…it’s a statement of fact. Abortions were around 1.5M in 1990 and under 1M today.
Imagine a campaign involving getting women to quit working and raise families…and then exempting them from taxes (only benefits people who actually pay taxes).
So many things in our society would get better if we could get women out of the workforce.
1990… I remember it as roughly the peak of Hollywood and MSM, the very end of the Cold War, around the time boomers were finishing having kids, etc. Connect the dots. It was a certain time, a certain outlook, certain people.
George Carlin quote , you ever notice that the women who are pro abortion , you wouldn’t want to F#@K anyway. I have to agree with that statement. For the most part.
He never said that.
That was the opening line in one of his acts.
Trump appointed some pro-life judges but he is no social conservative. Life Site News summed him up thus:
“A supporter of same-sex “marriage,” Trump nominated a variety of pro-LGBT officials to various government posts and judicial vacancies and continued an Obama-era executive order on “gender identity nondiscrimination” and U.S. support for international recognition of homosexual relations at the United Nations Human Rights Council. His campaign actively courted LGBT-identifying voters with rainbow merchandise.”
“The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
I don’t want to nest another comment but regarding the conversation below, it is necessary to show both that “Who says?” is not an argument and that there is an objective basis for the determination of moral questions. In the first place, “Who says?” is not an ace of trumps in moral argumentation. It is simply a slightly diplomatic way of saying that you don’t care about any possible objections to your actions and you’re going to do as you please, anyhow. Such autocratic declarations place a man outside the sphere of morality to begin with, by making him a… Read more »
That’s a lot of words. Who says?
But everyone draws the “human life” line at different points. Liberals don’t consider themselves baby murderers because they don’t think embryos and zygotes are babies yet. Murder itself is a malleable concept, all these zygote loving conservatives also claim Israel has the right to defend itself against all those little children in Gaza.
Nice trope, but by the time pregnancy is confirmable, the little critter inside is a lot more than a zygote or an embryo.
I agree it is to laugh seeing Pro-Life Inc take a fall here, after misleading their supporters among the Dirt People (I prefer Salt of the Earth People myself) for so long with a promise they knew was a lie.
“Who says?” is not an argument. It’s a test to see if the person questioned even has an argument.
@Intelligent Dasein You raise some interesting points. Ignore the moron who posted “Who sez,” mocking you. He’s a man of little words because he’s a man of few brain cells. Back to the salient point. I think morality does not exist “in the ether” like the number set and higher mathematics. I think it ENTIRELY a human construct, designed to meet the needs of human cultures and human societies. When you strip away the geegaws, what morality is is a way of regulating the behavior of the citizenry. “Thou Shalt Not” and all that. The 10 Commandments are the perfect… Read more »
The thing is, without abortion the browning and societal dumbing down happen faster. I haven’t settled on how I’d square a dislike for abortion with these disagreeable trends
There’s an old saying among mathematicians in the computer modeling and simulation world, “All models are wrong. Some are useful.”
In the same sense, all murders are wrong. Some are useful.
I can agree with that but that does not remove the dilemma if you want to get rid of abortions and prefer to live in a functioning society
I don’t think there’s a correlation. Abortion rates are down 30-40% since 1990. Society is astonishingly worse. This is where the pro lifers are fighting the wrong battle. It’s not abortion vs no abortion. It’s killing people vs. having babies. You won’t get whites to start making babies again until you make it so people can actually see benefit to it. People used to have lots of kids because women stayed home and child mortality was high. To a lesser extent, kids helped bring money into the home or were at least a wash because they could work the farm.… Read more »
That isn’t true, there are plenty of other eugenic methods that would be at least as effective. Offering incentives to self-sterilize while at the same time de-incentivizing bastardy would fix those problems immediately for example. People volunteered themselves and even their children for medical experimentation for the price of a donut.
You’re confusing the theoretical with the factual. It is true that such measures could theoretically be taken. But they aren’t about to be implemented. So the real world effect of no abortions is likely to be a faster path to white minority and more unemployable and otherwise problematic people being born.
In terms of absolute numbers, abortion results in the loss of more white babies than black babies (about 50% more in the US, from numbers I just checked) – because there are so many more white women than black women in the population.
[…] ZMan turns the cynicism up to 11. […]
There were about 18.5k homicides in America in 2023 and about 1MM abortions in the same year. If we assign 100% of those homicides to males, and if we assign agency to women, then women were responsible for about 55x more murders than men were in America last year.
Yep. Durkheim made a similar argument when comparing male vs. female homicide rates in France in the 1890s.
Anyone who has driven in traffic knows that the most hyper violent people in our society are women under 30.
I’ve tended to lean in the pro- choice direction (though I support third and many second trimester restrictions/bans). Nonetheless a lot of the pro-life people seem like genuinely kind people who oppose abortion in the same way that people care for the weak or for animal welfare.
There is a certain vocal (but not very numerous) segment of the pro life community, personified by Richard greenhorn on Twitter and American sun and Ben ziesloft who just want to control people and who probably should take a long walk off a short pier
Conservative Inc. showed its true colors in 2015 when Planned Parenthood was under siege for selling baby parts. Instead of stripping P.P. funding from the federal budget, Paul Ryan and his gaggle ignored the issue.
[FWIW, when I made a donation to a Federal candidate that year and I had to list my employer and profession I put down “Planned Parenthood, Baby Organ Salesman”. Come and get me FEC girly-men!]
Abortion rights long ago was a boutique issue mostly supported by the social elite (AKA, wealthy Republicans) and Jews. The Dems were too dependent on working class Catholics to push it. The 60s saw the Dems start their abandonment of the white working class on the way to becoming a Jewish party and also the party of abortion rights. The GOP has never been able to effectively oppose that agenda because they still contain a large number of influential establishment Republican types who are powerful in the party. Years ago, somebody pointed out that all the Bush men were pro-life… Read more »
That was a deal breaker for me, too. They had PP people flat out lying, provably lying about the sales, and the GOP did nothing.
When Trump won the nomination in 2016 and then the election, I told ZMan (over at NRO “The Corner”, lol, humble beginnings) that Trump would prove one of two things:
– Conservative Inc and all its promises on abortion, immigration, Obamacare, etc. were lies
– they weren’t
It didn’t even take a full year for them to implode.
Accurate with a couple of adjustments; 0. Abortion is above all a Litmus Test. 1. The body of then young Catholic law students and Lawyers many of whom came from Franciscan college in Ohio in the 90s who staffed DC and the Federalist society weren’t and aren’t grifters, they’re Catholics and devoutly believe abortion is murder. There was absolutely an element of strategy here consciously, it was Catholics marching through the institutions of DC to get abortions stopped or curbed at least. Among those institutions are the important Clerks of the Federal Courts, who write briefs for Judges. They’re middle… Read more »
Kudos to Frank Herbert’s Dune series: There’s an uneasy yet penetrating truth when he connects womankind with The Bene Gesserit. And the atavistic determination to carry out their priorities to complete fruition, like in the present-day little lady’s will to abort.
(That being said: goodness, character, and higher values do temper and bless the pursuits of woman and man, but goddamn there is a heart of darkness in what people without shame or scruple are demanding. Even as a Prottie, I feel compelled to do the sign of the cross.)
Also, h/t to Herbert for elevating the concept of a baby communicating with her mother while still in the womb… I guarantee there is a not small number of harpies on the pro abortion side who wince at reminders like that… Abortion rates have been declining steadily for 34 years: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/sr_24-03-26_abortion_1/ Why? Science! – most women don’t want to have an abortion, and birth control has become cheaper, safer, and more effective – AIDS put a clamp on riskier behaviors – 3D ultrasounds The public consensus is that it probably should be allowed in some way, but that it’s wrong… Read more »
Abortion is mostly a dead issue as those who care most passionately about it, have passed their window of fertility 40 years ago. It is a small advantage for Democrats, but not the decisive one. The biggest issue is the negative effect of intelligence, ESPECIALLY male intelligence, on fertility. Women abhor intelligence in men, unless it is offset by charisma, and especially cruelty and domination which is a marker of high status. In a very long (more than a few years) struggle like the original Cold War, emphasis will be on promoting more of “loyal” smart guys including reproduction. As… Read more »
Because women hate, hate, HATE betas! Yes!
There is seriously no bigger incentive to a young nice guy then to guarantee him a beautiful teen/early 20s bride. That’d get my vote!
fakeemail — You could, ah, Fundamentally Transform the U.S. and allied western woke nations merely by outlawing feminism tomorrow, and promising (and providing) young, attractive females to meritorious young men. For LIFELONG marriage and family formation led by the DAD. Not mom. Not the feminist courts. Not the feminist government. Those’d be the same young men who presently, en masse, are abandoning New Amerika and ‘going ghost’ on their tyrannical woke-fem countries. While your daughters steer ships into each other. Nonparticipatum baybee, and if I were a young man in the current U.S. I’d turn my back on it too.… Read more »
The discussion on federalism is quite the red herring and it obscures the critical points. The “morality” of abortion—and the morality of anything else for, that matter—is defined simply and solely by what it is, not by whether it was legalized at the state level instead of the federal level, or whether people like it or agree with it. Right and wrong are not subject to the whims of a democratic majority, and a consensus can err just as much as an individual can. Abortion is always morally wrong. There can be no two ways about that. Its status as… Read more »
Who says?
See my comment below about Jesus and the New Testament. It seems to me that he had plenty of time to make these hot button issues perfectly clear in his time and day. If he or the apostles or the Nicene council or whoever it was to assembled the texts whiffed, that means they didn’t think it was such a big deal. A lot of people have their fingerprints on Christianity back in those days and none of them seemed to want to put a stop to abortion so they are not really a question of biblical teaching. These are… Read more »
I doubt he answers, but the point is that the authority for such claims is what matters. If you think Scripture prohibits the taking of a human life, that is not debatable if you think Scripture is unquestionable. If it is the first mover when it comes to what we ought and ought not do. Of course, lots of people would reject Scripture as the unquestioned moral authority. This is why his argument is not really an argument and it is political sterile. If everyone agreed with him on the morality of abortion, then the only debate is how best… Read more »
The assumption that compromise of some kind is more ethical has no more basis in objective truth than that abortion is or isn’t always morally wrong. Neither does lack of general consensus suggest compromise is some objectively best resolution to a moral question. Seeking consensus of the population at large has the arrow of cause and effect backwards. A utilitarian acknowledgement of how things are rather than how we wish they were suggests appeals to traditional authority could be a powerful tool in challenging the moral framework of our political enemies.
I do not think “compromise” is the right word here. The people of Louisiana will have different laws regarding abortion than the people of Massachusetts, because these two people have different views on right and wrong. Letting them have these different moral codes is not a compromise. It is peaceful separation.
In other words, the choice here is not pro-abortion versus anti-abortion. The choice is peaceful separation versus irreconcilable moral conflict. Ethically, the latter is inferior to the former.
I personally imagine peaceful separation to be preferable but I don’t believe it would be allowed. As you have discussed many times those from whom we would wish to politically separate are animated with a moral imperative that has no bounds.
Exactly. This is similar to your Natural Rights debate. No, there are no “natural rights;” there are just values that fit a certain community at a certain time. ID is doing what Anton and his crew do. Heck, they even put the word “natural” in the label to trick people. Nature has physical laws that are true at all times in all places. Same with math. But morality isn’t a physical law or math. Morality reflects the cultural values of a people at a certain time and certain place. Once you enter the realm of morality/cultural values, the central question… Read more »
And you can move if you don’t like it and it affects you in some way other than living in fear that someone somewhere might be doing something you disagree with. Most surveys show the public is pragmatic about abortion. It’s probably needed if only as a last resort against stupidity. There are far better and less traumatic ways to avoid having children. And as somebody point out higher up in the thread, the target market / abortion demographic is something liberals don’t talk about because of the implications. It does keep the prison population down. I also think most… Read more »
While it is not a legal document, the Hippocratic Oath – which goes back a ways from the late 1800s – prohibits abortion.
Who says? Nobody says. Nobody says that 2+2=4, either; or, at any rate, the truth or falsity of that proposition is not determined by what anybody says about it—it follows analytically from the definition of the terms—but sane people will accede to it, thereby proving their sanity. Morality, likewise, is something determined analytically. Right and wrong are not determined by consensus or by the dictates of social authority (consensus is just another form of social authority). A lot of people on “this side” are fond of repeating the mantra that “reality is what doesn’t go away when you close your… Read more »
ID, I salute your willingness to get back into the ring, when your perspective may not be the most favored on this website. As white men, and you may chafe at that characterization, we respectfully duke it out in the realm of ideas and all participants in good faith are honored. I guess that you’re wrong about a lot of things, but set yourself on down, bro.
This is false, at least with regards to math. We have axioms of mathematics that have been discovered over time and they are the authority for the natural world. Who says 2+2=4? Math says so. Math is the authority of space time, the god of what is. Now, do the same for your claim that abortion is always immoral. What is the authority for this claim? If it is not by census, then from where does your analysis start? What is the unchallengeable axiom you put down on the page as you perform your analysis, reaching the conclusion that abortion… Read more »
Blue-hair Twitter Jews’ claims that abortion is a sacred rite of Judaism aren’t easily refuted.
I might think “But Jews are wrong about everything” is a fine argument (because I’ve met my mother) and Christians might think “Jews are right about everything except [short list]” is convincing (it isn’t), but—
If nothing else, Jews have an *older claim* to universal morality than almost everyone does. It’s conservative, both temperamentally and epistemologically, to assume they’re right. And they do agree: Kill the babies.
I tried using math on this issue but all I came up with was that two wongs don’t make a white.
“Morality, likewise, is something determined analytically.”
At best, it’s determined analytically in the sense of figuring out what morality seems to produce the best results for a certain people at a certain time. But even that can change over time or as the people change.
2+2=4 doesn’t change with time or the people doing the counting.
I am deathly tired of single-issue people going on about abortion. I don’t like it either and am pro-life for our own communities but this same tiresome posing has been going on for decades as everything falls apart apace. We are now threatened with multiple civilization-ending crises being overrun by invaders, hyper-inflationary pressures, faced with looming global thermonuclear war, and rampant feminism but to dwell on any of these would be indecorous in polite company. No, instead they must insist the millions of migrant invaders have as many children as can possibly be managed once they get there. But I… Read more »
The Palis in Gaza, as gross as they are, are demonstrating the will to live that white people must learn. Life is surprising and humbling.
This. The relentless defeatism and sense of resignation needs to go to be replaced by a natural vitality and sense of urgency.
The Palestinians may not be the most sophisticated people but they are totally confident in themselves and never question or second guess.
Ah yes but the robust will to live does not present itself without the willingness to die.
The debate here is almost as great as Mr. Z’s post
Thank you one and all
I’ve raised this general idea before but it has been a while. Abortion has the same potential for no-compromise polarization and motivation that slavery did. Observing how slavery is used to this day to short-circuit rational discussion and coerce both physically and mentally I am convinced abortion has at least as much potential were it to be taken up and used in the same manner politically. The pro-life advocate need not seek common ground with the baby killer and in fact is morally obligated to seek nothing less than total political dominance over baby killers. Think also of who the… Read more »
I don’t think that’s true. A modest majority, or at least the largest plurality, are pretty much ok with abortion being legal in the first trimester and illegal thereafter. Which is more or less the law in Europe. American leftists are about the only ones hell bent on unlimited access to abortion at all stages of a pregnancy.
I am not offering an opinion on the moral outlook and temperature of the population as it is today. What I’m suggesting is that this topic in particular has great potential for inspiring fervent advocacy and partisanship that could be usefully directed against the people on the other side of the divide as we say around here. I’ve expressed my contempt for the political and moral agency of the general population before. They will think what they are told to think for the most part and especially if it is an idea that resonates with traditional inherited moral strictures.
Abortion has been at the forefront of safe, harmless conservative issues for decades and has yet to accomplish much of note.
That’s largely because of the reality of how insincerely abortion is politically utilized today. The whole point of today’s essay really. I am imagining a movement that takes anti-abortion to the same extremes as anti-slavery was taken. It is charged with at least as much potential given the right charismatic and uncompromising leadership. Come to think of it, Lincoln, Brown and everyone in-between weren’t even very charismatic, they were just so sure of their moral correctness they were ready to see hundreds of thousands die in the service of imposing their morality by force.
Since SCOTUS overturned Roe, the Baizuo Financial Complex, aka Lauren Jobs, George Soros, Mackenzie Scott, Reid Hoffman et al, have organized to establish a new “underground railroad” to transport negro women seeking abortions from behind enemy lines in the red states to places where they can get the abortion at baizuo expense. Before SCOTUS did what it did, negro women had to pay for their own abortions and thus frequently did not get them, but now that the bat signal has been lit, every negro woman can get a “free” abortion. In summation, rich white leftists are now paying to… Read more »
Where can I contribute? The last thing we need is more ferals running around.
I’m all for people procreating in the context of a nuclear family, but not under the current conditions of society. In fact, I would give them abortion vouchers. A one-time abortion voucher is cheaper than Obama phones and food stamps for an entire lifetime.
> Why would any right wing dissident complain?
Because it’s short-sighted. Any degenerate behavior in the black population that society tolerates will eventually spread to the white population.
If you want to befuddle Christians, ask them why abortions, which are a 3,000-year-old procedure wasn’t addressed by Jesus in the New Testament? He knew about it and it was hotly debated at the time. If it was so important to jesus, why didn’t he spell it out for us. Of course, they’ll respond with “thou shalt not kill.” But Jesus was supposed to be all knowing and the embodiment of perfection. He should have known that they were stupid people/skeptics like me who need to have it spelled out for them. It seems to me that people are trying… Read more »
^^^ Logical Conclusion: Jesus didn’t care about abortion or he would have spelled it out. If Jesus didn’t care about abortion, why should I?
like slavery, which I think is a bad idea. Tar baby and all…
But, like slavery.
Well, why didn’t Jesus address that one? He didn’t care.
In other words, it’s not a biblical commandment that slavery be eliminated, it was eliminated because of societal preference.
There is no societal preference for eliminating abortions. The anti-abortion nut jobs are in the minority.
The Didache, or teaching of the Apostles, possibly older than the current forms of the four canonical Gospels, prohibits abortion and the exposure of unwanted infants. I am a former Episcopal priest and convert to Catholicism who from an early age admired the Catholic opposition to abortion and am also old enough to remember when generally Evangelicals preferred to ignore abortion in part because it was not prohibited by Scripture. It has always been a moral matter for the Church, if not for various Protestants who prefer to draw their own conclusions than respect holy tradition. As a priest I… Read more »
numbers 5 :11: Y H W H gives Moses an abortion potion.
@ZFan – that’s all well and good, but we don’t live in a theocracy. Catholic preferences, which aren’t even accepted by a large number of practicing Catholics, let alone the majority of Christians, cannot be imposed on a secular society. Church is in your home and in your house of worship in a secular society. Sure, government can tip its hat to the various religious faiths and the general notion of there being “God”, but when you get down to specifics, the church can’t follow one particular sect’s ideas on this subject. Put another way, Kansas and Ohio have already… Read more »
^^^ the GOVERNMENT can’t follow one particular sect’s ideas on this subject.
I am American and I presume you are as well. Abortion was illegal throughout the country before the 20th century, though we know it occurred and was rarely prosecuted – mostly in the case of the death of mother- and as far as I know it was never a capital crime. It has always been with us and I would guess that all who read this have family members and/or friends who have been involved in an abortion. It is widespread in our culture, in Western Europe where I lived as a young man, and in East Asia and Latin… Read more »
Because women pregnant outside of marriage were stoned to death, hence–no problem..
In many ways the abortion stuff is a false issue obscuring the real questions about the role of women and the role of the Sexual Revolution in modern society. I have always found it interesting that abortion only became an issue a few years after oral contraceptives were invented. Indeed, the precedent for Roe v. Wade that established the bogus “right to privacy” was the case of Griswold v. Connecticut, when Planned Parenthood challenged a state law banning contraceptives. In other words, The Pill made the Sexual Revolution possible, but women proved to be too feckless and insouciant to take… Read more »
“they needed to be able the shred the baby as a back-up plan”
Of all of the great surprises of my life, one of the biggest is that women, who supposedly have an innate desire to mother life, would rejoice in killing children in the womb.
I’m not the first one to say this, but female nature is nothing like what tradition tells you.
This is one case where the wisdom of tradition is simply incorrect. Women are much less admirable than our ancestors told us they were.
It’s like a psychic punch to your most vulernable part.
LITS —
Yep. When contained by a masculine society, women are a generative plus, and a delight and help.
When ‘liberated’ from all responsibility and consequence, women are chaos and tribulation. Women organized politically are death to civilization.
Men desire freedom. Women desire security and safety, for themselves. Largely, they are a herd. It is what it is.
To be fair, a lot of mythology has women labeled as troublemakers The embodiment of all consuming darkness is usually female (Nyx, Morrigan, Izanami, Hel, Lilith, Whore of Babylon, etc.). Unfortunately whites seem prone to simping for women when things stop being tough. The promoter of life has turned out to be men not women. Makes sense, patriarchy promotes stability and reproduction while matriarchy promotes death and chaos. Myth and religion has the sky figure being male and frequently a promoter of the people and fertility. God (whole Trinity)/ Archangel Michael/ Deus/ Perun/ Amon-Ra/ Indra/ Brahman/ Jupiter/ Donner/ All-Father/ etc.… Read more »
In the hermetic tradition, the moon is a woman symbol because it is so changeable. The female tendency toward eccentricity and chaos has long been noted.
“It is what it is”
If more people took this attitude towards things the world would be a saner place. Instead the typical Western attitude has been to assume that if something seems unfair or undesirable we must crusade to get rid of it, usually through legislation and mass movements. This leads directly to utopian notions that there is some demiurge directing all of history towards some omega point. You see this in those sappy leftist bumper stickers on old Volvos about how “the arc of history bends towards justice”, with justice defined as a lot of egalitarian nonsense.
Being able to actually hold the baby is the game-changer. That’s when the maternal instinct really kicks in. Out of sight, on the other hand, out of mind.
They seem to instinctively understand this, in their preference for abortion over adoption.
The only thing I actually learned from looking at crime stats, because I already knew the rest from experience/observation, is that if a kid is dead, its mother killed it (statistically).
It’s easy to make up evolutionary excuses for that, but it’s still evidence that men and women are very, very different. Men kill each other, women kill children, and nobody kills women (statistically).
We pretend the *exact opposite* is true. Insert evolutionary excuse for that.
Women prey on children all the time. Lots of deviant women out there.. Nearly two centuries ago children were given to the father because it was assumed he was the better caregiver. That all changed in the late 1800s. The whole “maternal instinct” shit is a modern invention.
Regardless of the moral issues, the 10th Amendment clearly assigns such issues to be decided by the States..At the time the Constitution was passed, abortion was a crime in every State..So Roe v Wade, one of the worst and most idiotically written SCOTUS decisions in history, had to be reversed, simply on Constitutional grounds..Now if women want an abortion, and it isn’t allowed in their State, they can go to another State where it is allowed….
So IMO, as a Constitutional lawyer, a Federal law banning all abortions would be un-Constitutional as well…and will not happen
Hah. Yes, you are right that it would be unconstitutional… but just because something is unconstitutional is hardly a guarantee that it “will not happen.”
“If the New York Times announces that the cool kids are now wearing flowerpots on their heads, conservatives will swear it is true and produce the conservative case for flowerpots.”
“Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QLzthSkfM
We are *all* “Devo”—as in “devolution” now. Sigh….
I couldn’t help but think of those oddball spudboys too.
“This means it is a local issue. States and localities can then treat abortion the same way they manage other thorny moral issues like the location of gentlemen’s clubs.” After I grew out of my younger, more stupid, pro-life years, this is similar to something I’ve always been saying. This should be decided at the county level or maybe even the way liquor permits are decided by municipality or precinct. If you live in a rural county and don’t want abortions, have at it. If you live in an urban County and need to have access to abortions, that’s good… Read more »
Nature has practiced eugenics for millions of years. Big-brained humans with their ethical constructs try and stymie it.
In the long run , eugenics win. Always.
Is this an example of our larger dilemma? Given that pro- and con- must remain in disagreement on account of the disagreement being fundamentally moral and not political, what do we see if we widen our view? The same dilemma seems to apply to homosexuality, to child mutilation via “trans surgery,” immigration, endless meddling in other countries’ affairs… Disagreement on formerly salient issues like who pays for medical care and how much now seem almost quaint and not so morally fraught. My point is the central problem inhabitants of North America appear to have is we are composed of morally… Read more »
“trans surgery”
Stylebook violation. It is officially “gender-affirming care.”
Wonder why they don’t call it “castration” or “sterilization”?
Euphemisms are fun until you end up being the one at the receiving end of “special processing” or “diversity”.
And abortion / birth control drugs = “women’s reproductive health”. If abortion, or trans surgery, or homosexuality, are not immoral or depraved, then why all the bizarre circumlocutions? I wonder what they’re calling euthanasia in Canada. Probably not ‘euthanasia’, though even that is a periphrasis for “assisted suicide” (and maybe “strongly encouraged suicide”). When cannibalism becomes the Next Big Thing (around 2035, probably) I wonder what the vegans will do? Will they make an exception? And what will it be called? Certainly not cannibalism, because that evokes images of painted and feathered tribal chieftains of color, raising beating hearts to… Read more »
And there is an anthem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJsieUqWlRA
Necro. Necrosexuality is the next big thing. Soon we can confidently add an “N” to the rest of the gibberish – LGBTQN.
If evangelicals can—metaphorically—live side by side with immoral neighbors, then I don’t see where they can claim a “love of God”. The most basic premise of the Bible is that to love God is to hate evil. If nothing is evil, then nothing is good.
The evangelicals *are* the gay couple who bought an African to rape. Progress! That aside— I don’t remember his phrasing but one of the few things Nick Land said that anyone understands is that rulers cultivate new disagreements among the people because each new disagreement is a new site of rule. This isn’t just “divide and conquer” or “let’s you and him fight.” Controversy itself is a massive expansion of power. One day there was no dispute over whether kids’ genitals should be sawed off to tickle the fetishes of their mothers and teachers. The next day there was, and… Read more »
Keen analysis of the Uniparty grift. You grok it. As for the no-hope GOPe, it should be exterminated with prejudice. ‘The political experts, who are always wrong about everything, rush in to explain how this is a threat to Trump as women too busy in their cubicles to have sex are furious about abortion. It is all nonsense. . . .’ Hardly. Abortion IS the core issue amongst U.S. women, because its widespread availability signals a society so subjugated to feminism and gynocentrism that it will make it ‘legal’ to slaughter children in the womb, then part-out the leavings for… Read more »
If God truly loathes AINO, I wish he’d get on with showing it by lobbing a few mighty thunderbolts at Wall Street, Harvard, DC and Hollywood.
I get where you are coming from, but in my understanding, that’s not the way it works. The stories in the Bible have shown that God allows his people to suffer the consequences of their folly, but always afterwards forgives and accepts them back as they repent of their folly. Unfortunately we have not yet begun to learn—much less repent—from our folly and that entails much suffering ahead.
Yeah. I intentionally conflated the Christian god with Zeus and other rash, vengeful deities. Our foes could use a right proper smiting from a nasty Greek god.
Compsci —
This is my understanding also.
O.K. —
I share your sentiment and tend towards Old Testament solutions also. Deal with it and move forward.
The Boss is letting evil ‘come to its fullness’ kind of like the way a boil must come to a head before lancing.
Seems there’s a lotta evil to get full! lol
Having been born in 1980, it is a minor miracle that I survived the womb. 1/3rd of those conceived in 1980 were aborted, and 70% of those abortions were committed by white women.
There has never in the history of the world been a more deadly place than a modern woman’s womb. Not even Auschwitz!
An infant crawling across no man’s land at Verdun would have been more likely to survive than a soul in a modern woman’s womb.
I agree that it IS a problem for “Trump,” and that women *are* “pro-abortion,” but not for anything involving “women’s rights.” It’s so much simpler and dumber: Women are herd animals, and “abortion” is a fashion statement, nothing more. Being overheard questioning the sanctity of “abortion” is like being photographed wearing last season’s shoes — a social faux pas which can never be lived down, with which all the other hens will torment her to the very end of her days.
It’s the emotionality of the issue to be sure for women. If one thought about what the true effect of all these changes wrt forcing women having to have a baby against her wishes, she’d ignore the issue. In truth, it’s a non issue in today’s modern society. Even ignoring available for all contraception and chemical abortive, physical abortion on demand is not in danger. At worse, it’s a bus ticket away.
Couldn’t agree more Ray. When at least half of the women in the US (probably more than half in Canada) think that the biggest political issue is being able the snuff your child conceived during a bad mating decision, there really isn’t much hope for your society. They are convinced they are intellectually and “morally” superior to those that disagree with them. It really does show that you live in a post Christian society where the moral basis for right and wrong has been totally destroyed. These are the people running all of society’s institutions. God help us.
I think the grift of which you speak encompasses far more than just the abortion issue. Con., Inc. absolutely loves judicial activism. Every time some crazy left-wing court issues an insane opinion, the grifters on the right can fundraise off of opposition to it. At the same time, the court has ruled and “separation of powers” and Muh’ Principals requires we respect the ruling! We can’t really do anything about it now but we can hope to appoint a judge to overturn it at some unknown time in the future. This reliable grift is why the Senate always approves the… Read more »
It’s not just the insane judicial rulings they like, it’s being the opposition party they like the most. They can posture and preen about everything being powerless to actually do anything. When their vote doesn’t count because they are outnumbered, they vote the right way. They then run home to their community and brag about their voting record and how they are the most conservative member of Congress. But when their votes actually matter, when the Democrats don’t have the votes, the cuckold arises and gives the finger to his voters.
Good article, and why Clarence Thomas is perhaps the greatest living American hero. I never thought I’d see the day when that evil human sacrifice practice was abolished. Pro-abortion people to me sound like the pro-slavery folks from the 1800s.
Do you really believe that Clarence Thomas is “the greatest living American hero?”
I don’t want to disparage the man. He’s awesome. Best of his breed.. But the greatest?
Please consider that you may say things like this because there is a part of your psychology that still craves affirmation from people who want to kill you.
MLK was the greatest American hero of the past. Clarence Thomas is the current greatest American hero. And Candace Owens will heft that mantle once Thomas exchanges his robe for a bed jacket and a case of Milk of Magnesia. It’s nuggras all the way down the line. Always.
Black Labrodors are the greatest Labrodors.
On our side of the divide, we shouldn’t discount heroes because they are Black or not White. Give praise where it’s due.
Oh wait! I feel that Antarctic ice pack a-tremblin’, Hans! Der Based Aryan Superman ariseth!
Name one better. Clarence Thomas actually went ahead and did what nobody else had the courage to do and overturned Roe vs Wade. I never thought I’d see it in my lifetime. Absolutely huge.
How or why does this distinguish him from Kavanaugh, Barrett, Gorsuch, or Alito?
Yeah! What IS his distinguishing feature? For the life of me, I just can’t imagine…
Did it all on his own, did he? That’s some trick!
I recant. Up goes a poster of Thomas dressed as Superman on my bedroom wall.
Greatest, or currently pretty outstanding. Just as long as we do not make the fatal mistake of ignoring contributions simply because of skin color. “Through all my teachers I am made wiser. “
“Best of his breed.”
Some people just can’t help it.
Clarence Thomas seems like a fine man, but he’s most definitely not the greatest living American hero. If he wasn’t black, he wouldn’t be on the Supreme Court. He’d be a very solid lawyer and maybe a middle-tier judge somewhere.
Stop accepting the morality of those who hate you.
If you want a great Supreme Court justice look no farther than Scalia. He would run rings around liberal justices’ arguments, crushing them and mocking them with ease. All the while, weaving beautifully tight arguments that they would refuse to address because they couldn’t refute.
Scalia’s written dissents (for they more often were) are simply a masterclass in writing with logic, style, and grace. Too bad he was killed in a brothel.
He would build a logical trap. There just was no escape. The best part was that he’d mock the shit out the liberal justices as he built the trap.
I agree. Thomas seems like a decent man, but he is not the greatest living American. He is the Thomas Sowell of legal theory, vastly overrated because of his race. He should auction off the next place he wants to live as a neighbor. White people would bid up his “black neighbor card” (a promise to move next door to the winner of the auction) into the millions.
Again, denigration is not a plus here. Sowell has a record of published economic conclusions/understanding/wisdom via his books that exceeds just about every other academic in the field of economics. The benefit of Sowell’s race has less to do with him than disingenuous Whites who wish to tout a “conservative Black intellectual” for their purposes.
However, that was not Sowell’s entire career. He was a He was a Catholic HS school graduate, a Marine in the 50’s, a grad student at the University of Chicago, an employee at the Fed, then a Professor at Cornell University—all before AA took hold.
There are 10k random White people who can spout all the libertarianism Sowell spouts. I’m not putting him down, I’m putting in perspective. Sowell is and has always been one of the e black guys they drag out to claim liberal schemes to “help” blacks are the cause of black dysfunction. He’s a solid guy that gets way more credit than is earned due to his race and a lot of his views on race. Same with Walter Williams. They are celebrities because they are black. If they were not celebrities, they would likely be working economists either in academia… Read more »
That’s nice about Scalia. Great legal minds are admirable.
But the “facts on the ground” are that Clarence Thomas actually overturned Roe.
We need to applaud real deeds rather than hot air. Which is why I have a problem with the constant sniping against Rufo on here. Biden and the Dems understand facts on the ground – which is why they’re flooding the country with (soon-to-be-boting) illegals.
Scalia was dead. What did you want him to do? Vote from the grave. If he had been on the court, he absolutely would have voted to overturn Roe.
As to Rufo, I agree. I respect that he gets stuff done on the ground. Even if he’s not exactly on our side, he’s moving the ball in the right direction.
Jannie: I don’t know if there’s a version of Godwin’s Law with regard’s to slavery, but there ought to be. How many logical fallacies does this equate to? Strawman? False Dilemma?
I think the slavery-abortion comparison is valid. Except killing defenseless babies is far worse than providing lifelong job security and free, employer-funded healthcare.
Ryan Faulk did a deep dive into slavery. Assuming he is correct, slavery as we “know” it is a pack of lies. Most of Europe had a lower standard of living than did American blacks under slavery. They were taller, they lived longer, they had a higher literacy rate and weighed more than Eastern Europeans. There are records of federal government interviews with freed slaves from the close of the Civil War into the 1930s. Most of the evils of slavery (outside of just being a slave) are a pack of lies. Even today in 2024, white on black sexual… Read more »
Look, I despise your average diverse section as much as the other. But, seriously, if you don’t think that some slave-masters were cruel because the slaves were valuable, then why do people abuse their farm animals, including workhorses?
“Some” being the key word. To hear the morality play of AINO, you’d think every dam’ slave owner was Baal constantly stabbing his barbed tail into the backs of innocent slaves just to get his sadistic jollies.
Yes, some probably were exceedingly cruel. They’re called outliers.
It’s like lynching. It’s a pack of lies. A large portion of men lynched were White (something like 1/4-1/3). They were not lynched on such trivial things looking wrong at a White woman. Most were infamous criminals, many with child victims.
Look, I know. There is even the case where, I believe it was New Orleans, a female was so cruel to her slaves that the town chased her out of town. Again, this shows that this behavior was aberrant, analogous to animal cruelty.
And, lest it be misrepresented, I have no white guilt and find diversity untenable. But I also think that there were many casual cruelties, just as there are many casually cruel animal owners.
To wit: To hell with modern grievance studies, but slavery is a lousy lot in life.
Eloi: Sure, slavery is a lousy lot in life. So was being an indentured servant/slave in the early American colonies. Jews were delivered from slavery in the old testament, but owned slaves during Jesus’ time. Entire Irish villages were enslaved – by both Vikings and Mohammedans. It’s always a question of who-whom. It is also an historical fact that the majority of American slaves were better fed than the immigrant laborers in the north. All this quibbling about who rates higher on the misery and suffering index is tiresome. I have no desire to be a slave or to own… Read more »
None of us are fans of slavery. Either morally or politically. We are also men of a different era and where the true cost of slavery is now well known. We all wish slavery had never happened. But we were not unique in history in keeping slaves nor were we uniquely bad in how they were treated. Almost everything taught to our kids about slavery is a lie. Just like everything that happened on Jan 6th is a lie, Charlottesville is a lie, the civil rights movement is a lie to Southern Jim Crow is a lie. Most of the… Read more »
You can’t use any media as a bellwether of what people are thinking, but some are a smidgen closer to reality than others. Watching MSNBC will tell you as much about political reality as asking your dog or your baby their opinion. Likewise, the comments online on late night “comedy” show clips are just filled with disheartening, mouth breather platitudes. It’s just sound and fury. The proliferation of bots also makes it hard to parse the dumb from the literally automated, the figurative NPCs from the real simulacra (which I guess is a paradoxical term.) But Forbes and the Wall… Read more »
Abortion is one of the issues that divide those who want to support traditional whites. Traditional Christians see every baby in the womb as sacred, even if retarded or disabled. I understand and respect that point of view, although I don’t share it. If the struggle for existence was less harsh, I’d agree with you. Non-believers like me want to prune the unfit branches of the tree, as sad as that may be. We want our people to be as strong as possible to face the adversities of existence. If whites ever win some land, disagreements like this make me… Read more »
We can’t, you’re right.
I think a more effective (and moral) way to “prune the unfit branches” would be to summarily execute felons and criminal aliens before they have a chance to reproduce. I fail to see how allowing irresponsible whores to fornicate without consequences is in any way eugenic.
Christians will far outnumber any non-Christians in the future white ethnostate. Non-believers can either accept that reality and live with it, or they can slink back into whatever remains of AINO. Can’t imagine many would do the latter.
I didn’t downvote you, my friend. I honestly don’t know how the Christian versus Christian populations will shake out. In any case, I wish you guys the best.
I would be honored to be a humble member of your community, if you’d have me. I wouldn’t make trouble.
You’d be welcomed with open arms, as would all true dissidents, God-fearing or not. I really don’t see this as a schism that has the potential to create much mischief.
Only if they are required to abandon their atheism and get baptized and that we have anti-blasphemy laws in place that are heavily enforced.
I’m kind of in the same boat as you are in. I am a non-believer, but call myself and think of myself as a “cultural Christian.” If the atheists create a White ethnostate and invite me, I’m not accepting it. I’ll go with the Christians any day of the week. Organized atheism (as opposed to people who would call themselves agnostic or simply non-believers) is the worst form of cultural cancer and they are universally unpleasant odious people. There are many factions within atheism, all with pretty stupid or evil motivations for their atheism. The feminists are atheists because they… Read more »
The factor unifying all of them is ego.
I don’t believe I will see a “white ethnostate” in what remains of my life (pushing 78), nor do I believe there’ll ever be one, given demographics and land distribution. The only ethnostate now extant, so far as I know, is Israel. Ponder all the implications of that and an ethnostate, assuming it were possible, might no longer seem a good idea off paper.
Think a little bit further. If abortion was defined as murder, and murder was punished with the death penalty, (both of which are highly supported by the Bible) there would be a lot fewer of the people who get abortions. One way or the other. Particularly since accomplices and people who make contracts for a crime can be charged with the same crime.
So there is at least the possibility of some common ground, there.
“Traditional Christians see every baby in the womb as sacred, even if retarded or disabled.”
Yes they do. They are also against exterminating the retarded or disabled people breathing air.
“Non-believers like me want to prune the unfit branches of the tree, as sad as that may be.”
The sad part is, the definition of “unfit” gets ever more encompassing once the Improvers of Mankind get going on it.
I doubt it… We need as many as we can save.
It’s revealing that the GOP establishment wants to keep every fight on the federal level. Supposedly, they’re the states’ rights party, the “let’s keep everything as local as possible” party. And that’s a winning argument. It has moral standing, “Let each community decide what’s right for it.” It also plays into a weakness of the Left, which is much, much weaker in flyover country and really doesn’t have a great desire to fight it out state by state. But, as Z notes, staying at the national level national level is good for the actual people in the GOP establishment. First,… Read more »
I no longer receive any fund raising mail from ConInc or the Rs. I think what did it was when I wrote on the return mailer that I hated them with the intensity of a thousand suns because they were backstabbing cowardly cucks, and included a Monopoly money $100 bill. I know this had no impact on their sense of shame or dignity, but it felt good nonetheless.
I’ve often said that I would rather be punched in the face by an honest “D” than stabbed in the back by a fake “R”.
TomA: I’ve done the same. I’ve returned every postage-paid envelope with a couple of pennies taped on for increased weight and written “I hate you” or “Never” or similar messages. I’ve called. I’ve blocked numbers. After dozens of such mailings, I finally got the Heritage Foundation to stop bothering me. And then just the other day, at our new address – yet again. I just tried calling the bast*rds but they’re closed. I haven’t voted since 2016. I’m not registered to vote. I haven’t signed up for any causes. There must be a special list for “people to harass who… Read more »
“I’ve often said that I would rather be punched in the face by an honest “D” than stabbed in the back by a fake “R”.”
When you live in AINO, both happen on a daily basis.
Albeit not daily, that would explain some of the aches and pains I feel from time to time. There is at least some consolation in knowing it’s not all old age related.
Yes, this has been going on for a long time. I remember, throughout the 90’s and well into the 2000’s, getting pleas from the GOP and Conservative, Inc. that “We need a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning NOW!!!” Enclose a check to save America. Meanwhile, the public schools and academia were being ruined, which was clearly apparent to anyone paying attention, and our southern border was being brazenly invaded.
Considering the treason of our political class for decades now, if I didn’t believe in divine justice I would be very despondent.
But they finally succeeded! You cannot burn a pride flag! Vote Harder!
For all intents and purposes the Fruit Flag has replaced Old Glory as AINO’s banner of choice.
They don’t call it the GAE (Global American Empire) for nothing.
Ha! Good point, Eloi. It sure isn’t America anymore. I’m glad I got to see some vestiges of what it used to be.
The abortion argument is so abstract it’s meaningless. It used to be easy to find photos of aborted fetuses on the internet. If that was still the case, I doubt there’d be a debate.
Healthy fetuses, that is. Not malformed and probably unviable ones.
It’s a heavily Christian argument. The “Science” crowd doesn’t care about abortion. They could see fetuses all day and it doesn’t matter. A clump of cells, whatever.
There’s also the pesky argument of WHO is doing the aborting. I remember the Freakonomics guys 20 years ago turning heads by claiming that abortion rights caused the decline in crime starting in the late 1980s. Christian groups act like it’s little innocent Beckies from Des Moines getting abortions. But it’s not! I’ve always wondered if Christian groups knew exactly who they were lobbying for…of course Christians can be the ultimate telescopic philanthropists.
Regardless of the sociology, it only takes a few weeks for the embryo to become recognizably human. At that point, it’s certainly an innocent human life being taken. If there’s no solution to prevent that situation, wtf. Maybe try a little harder. I’m all for being tough, but that’s too tough even for me!
Paintersforms,
Regardless of the various arguments to step around it; regardless of the race or sex involved; regardless of who does it and does not; it was, is and remains a sin.
And this has caused me some consternation as a Christian, as we can all thing of scenarios where, practically, the abortion in some instances would be the ‘best bet’.
May the Good God have mercy on my rotten soul for saying such.
I’m an atheist, though not a philosophical materialist; I have a different metaphysic. That notwithstanding, I believe in what in the Bible is the law “written on the heart”, as in Natural Law. One simply knows, down there in the marrow, that abortion is destruction and one cannot countenance it and maintain a clean conscience.
It is most likely a sin and I get that. But is it the biggest sin and worth the single-issue attention it gets? Is it worth all those years of politicking and donations and picketing and clinic-bombing? Jeez, you’d think that Roe legalized murdering your grandmother. I try to be a good Christian myself, but I just don’t see this – never saw it – as a worthy single-issue obsession that some Christians have about it. For example, the sexualization and vulgarization of popular media is a bigger, more corruptive issue for society at large than what some trash hoe… Read more »
They are lobbying for the babies.
This is undoubtedly true. But what are babies? Or rather when does a fertilized egg deserve “personhood”? One side says immediately, the other only after natural birth (9 something months)—and then maybe not. As hinted at in today’s missive, most common people are at neither extreme, but the extremes seem to rule the debate and as with all extremists, there is an impossibility to come to a compromise. One side or the other—actually both sides—needs to be defeated for the issue to be put to bed. I don’t see that happening. Despite Z-man’s thinking, the issue is (here is AZ)… Read more »
A fertilized egg has a different genome than either of the parents. That doesn’t make it a baby, but it does make it something different, and that difference is the beginning of independence. (How independent are any of us, anyway? I have a family name, and my parents ‘owned’ me until I reached the age of majority. The state makes a claim on me, I owe a debt to society to maintain and perpetuate it, etc.) Personhood is a moral status, so I don’t think it’s appropriate to argue it on a strictly biological basis, but I do think it’s… Read more »
Paintersform. Personhood, is when society accepts the claim for protection of the conception of egg and sperm. The blastocyst has a potential, but to me is not a human being. Indeed, at those early stages of reproduction, it may be the case that the blastocyst fails to attach to the uterus in the *majority* of cases and is flushed out of the system *normally*. Do we morn these lost “lives”? Of course, at the other end of the reproductive cycle, late term abortion to me is pure murder and evil. Personhood is not at issue, I grant that without hesitation.… Read more »
“Christian groups act like it’s little innocent Beckies from Des Moines getting abortions. But it’s not!”
You’d be surprised.
The aspect of who gets abortion and even the grizzly spectacle of aborted fetus’s on operating tables is so 20th century, Roe vs Wade theatrics. The real story is that the battle has been lost and lost a while ago, but the pro-life folk don’t comprehend it. First, the overwhelming number of abortions—estimated at 80% are chemically inducted! That is to say, mostly via the “morning after pill”, which is a misnomer as the morning after seems now to spread into weeks. But I’m not an expert here. Second, the FDA has now approved an over the counter birth control… Read more »
Another reason, “The Science,” doesn’t see is that they’re making bank on trafficking all the various abortion output products.
I’m surprised nobody thinks about the demographic aspects of the 60,000,000+ abortions since Roe v. Wade.
That’s a lot of non-existing native-born people we’re replacing with leftovers from the Aztec empire.
Yeah, but most of those abortions have been basically inner city, as previously pointed out. Pick you poison I guess.
I imagine the vast majority of anti-abortion activists are also vehemently anti-racist, well, as regards non-whites anyway. Thus, when it comes to the relationship between abortion and crime rates, they see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil.
You have to wonder how it is “pro-life” to allow a future black murderer to be born.
Picture Becky Nobortion prancing around like Miracle Max with her fingers in her ears.
“I’m not listening! I’m not listening!”
How do you know a person in utero will be a murderer?
I would argue that the only two issues self-styled conservatives attached moral arguments to – instead of more “facts and reason and muh constitution” – was abortion and gun rights. And look at the two very issues that have gained traction and even conservative wins in recent years. As we like to say round these parts, conservatives conserve nothing, but they have conserved two things at least. It’s amazing what popular morality can achieve, isn’t it? Of course progressives know this well, and therefore the two issues they can’t win a moral argument for are the ones they are most… Read more »
I think this is right. You win in politics by establishing yourself on the side of the angels. Note however that conservatives had little role in both of these issues. It was Trump who delivered on the judges. It was the NRA that delivered on guns, often in the teeth of opposition from Conservative Inc. Conservative will coattail the morality, but never champion it.
It’s not that these are their hot button issues, it’s that they aren’t getting their way with them. It doesn’t matter what the issue is, leftists only accept getting 100% of what they want before demanding more. It is why they win.
When they do make moral claims, it’s always weak. For example, There’s an easy slam-dunk on the college loan racket in making a moral claim college students were sold a fake bill of goods by the Higher Education Industrial complex, and they should foot the bill for all this outstanding debt.
Instead of this obvious means of damaging the left’s patronage network, they talk about how forgiving loans would be stealing. It’s true, mind you, but a far weaker moral claim than refusing to help the guy with 200k in undissolvible student loans.
Elected Republicans will do or say the thing that causes the least bit of disruption in their personal lives. It is why they frame issues this way. They are cowards first and foremost, and grifters as a distant second. And in cases such as Mike Johnson, apparently easily blackmailed.
None of the forgiveness plans I’ve seen have ever been designed to help the recipient in a high earning field with $200k in debt. The forgiveness plans usually cap the amount, leaving plenty to be paid back by a med school graduate or budding lawyer or architect. The issue of unfair forgiveness misses the point, IMO. As I’ve stated repeatedly, we have waay too many people in tertiary education (leave vocational aside for now). At absolute best, we only have perhaps 15-20% of the population that can make good use of a college education. (Again, leave remedial HS education out… Read more »
Another moral, albeit considerably less prominent issue, is vegetarianism. Leftists tend far more toward vegetarianism–on environmentalist and animal rights grounds–than do those on the right. But Leftists understand they don’t yet have nearly enough control of this issue to take away our T-bones, chicken strips and bacon, so the issue doesn’t get as much play as gun control and abortion. But make no mistake, the Left would love to make us subsist on pea tendrils and tofu, and if they ever get traction on the issue it will become very prominent, indeed. Of course, by the time that happens, AINO… Read more »
Absolutely spot on, Ostei, the Left will never stop. If I may add a bit of lived through knowledge of history. I remember sitting about the TV with family when the Surgeon General first declared smoking to be a “potential” health hazard. In those days about 2/3’s of the country had picked up the nasty habit. Smoking was allowed everywhere and never considered twice. Well, the Fed’s couldn’t allow the benighted population to continue their unhealthy ways, so with the help of the “do gooders” (primitive Leftists) got on to the job of reducing smoking. At first we were treated… Read more »
Good thing I quit smoking when I did (1998), because if I hadn’t, I might be living in a cardboard box under an overpass in El Segundo, subsisting on cantaloupe rinds, fish-heads and rice! The cost of cigs, like everything else about AINO, is quite insane.
There are worse places than El Segundo, even considering the sewage treatment plant and refinery. Beats an overpass in Hawthorne or my old hometown of Inglewood!
Republicans hate winning.
“Republicans hate winning.”
Even more importantly, the don’t hate to lose. They really like to lose, as that gives them something to fund raise off. Let’s face it, that’s what is really important.
Republicans are cucks. It’s not that they don’t hate to lose. Republicans LOVE to lose.
I imagine the average Republican politician has an anus the size of Lake Huron…
Which leaves them something left to strive for: Lake Superior.
The GOP has no interest in “winning” on behalf of normal Americans because we’re not their real constituency. Voters are the rubes in the audience of their carnival freak show–objects of contempt to be exploited and fleeced.
When it comes to their real constituents–corporate America, Wall Street, the MIC, Israel–Republicans fight like rabid dogs.
The tricky thing about abortion is that while it is a moral issue for one side, it is a practical issue for the other side. Large numbers of women are too lazy to take precautions — or something “just happens” — and abortion offers a convenient way out of the mess. For women, keeping their options *wide open* is the driving force. The few women who oppose abortion are acting out of loyalty to another culture, like hispanic chicks or trad-Christian gals. Once they get absorbed by the Feminist Borg, and properly assimilated, they too will parrot the standard vaginal… Read more »
“90 percent of gals want freely accessible abortion”
That’s simply not true. Opposition to abortion is higher among women than men.
In a glorious alpha world, alpha men would knock up chicks — like Simon Cowell impregnating his mate’s wife — and not have to pay a dime to support the child. Doesn’t this already happen amongst a large proportion of the non-white peoples currently living in all Western nations? There’s your alpha world! Don’t know if you were joking with the statement above, or if I misunderstood; but such a world without both men and women willing to take responsibility for their actions would be rather dire. The alpha men and the women to whom you refer in the above… Read more »
OF-
I think you are correct about that particular community fitting into a certain idea of alpha maledom.
Then, look at how that community is propped up and marketed to women outside that community.
It’s sickening.
Geese,
I very sorry – but I don’t really understand your remark? What do you mean, exactly?
Is the “community” to which you refer “non-whites” as I mentioned above?
OF-
More specifically, I was trying to be coy about referring to obsolete farm equipment.
Abortion is much like marijuana, mushroom, “micro-dosing” things like cocaine and Adderall. Probably ok for the “elites”; they can generally handle it and will indulge in it in small amounts, if at all. Unleashed on the great unwashed, all of them are a civilization destroying disaster. If states were rational actors, they might come up with some tailored bans for abortion (1st trimester, for example) and see how that goes. On the other hand, it’s pretty clear that pot legalization has been a huge mistake, but states can’t/won’t unwind it. So the same is going to happen with abortion…all or… Read more »
While I agree with your sentiment, our elites drink babies’ blood and sacrifice them to Baphomet. Not sure they can moderate well.
ProZNoV: “One thing is for sure: I’ve never met a “pro-life” woman who thinks any woman should face so much as a $5 fine for actually getting an abortion; it’s always the evil abortionists fault.”
The “pro-life” women are the ones who go on mission trips to Africa and come home with adopted black babies. And then find a cuckservatard to marry them.
Yes. When you think about it, bringing back an African trophy baby and being against abortion, which has culled millions of black future criminals, are one and the same. I recently posted the demographic reality of abortion. Needless to say, it has been a win-win. The women you describe eventually will celebrate castrating little boys as an affirmation or whatever.
This corresponds with all stats I’ve seen:
https://www.guttmacher.org/infographic/2017/abortion-rates-race-and-ethnicity
The insane white women who celebrate abortion are right for all the wrong reasons. Eugenics deserve our support.
Jack: I hate, hate, HATE posts and threads about abortion because it brings out everyone’s moralist, black/white side. I am a baptized and believing Christian. I adore babies. I have never had an abortion. I find the advocates of partial and post-birth abortion (like Peter Singer) to be evil ghouls. BUT. I equally abhor reading people who mourn that not enough Down Syndrome children are being born any more. Or those who insist babies who will spend their lives in beds and wheelchairs, deaf, blind, and dumb, are ALWAYS a blessing and that every family ought to be grateful for… Read more »
3g:
“It is a complex physical, moral, and ethical issue ”
Looking at the racial stats, I find it a very simple issue.
@3g: The Bible, from my perspective, clearly indicates where suffering comes from. And it is not the Lord. God didn’t torment Job, and Jesus didn’t dispute Satan’s ability to offer the kingdoms of the world. So, agreed, that this is not God giving cruel tasks as a blessing.
Who cares what women think about this issue? I mean, of course they want someone else to pay the price for their choices; they are women.
Why has legalizing weed been a huge mistake? Honest question.
Do you know many people who’ve been consistent tokers for 20, 30, 40 yrs?
Are you aware that most commercially avalable Cannabis (Indica, Sativa, hybrids) strains have been GMOd to the point that they are psychoactively…an entirely different monster (think “Quaalude and Mescaline cocktail”)?
Normalizing pot culture was one of THE WORST….
For me it is a non-issue…
I think liberals, blacks and jews SHOULD abort their children, to be honest…😂
That’s not a joke filthie. The scum getting abortions are exactly the people we want getting them. White, leftist women produce more white leftists. Fuck them.
You first… (-;
I say this openly, although I say “existential enemies who want us dead and gone” instead of “liberals, blacks, and jews” and precede it with “I’m not conservative. I’m right-wing, so …”
I suspect that the overturning of RvW was just a bone thrown to the normiecons to keep them believing in the corporate grift that is America. That is to say, it was not a ‘victory’ but a tactical political operation of the enemy which perhaps hasn’t worked out like they hoped.
Add me to the chorus of people who simply don’t care that less of them will be around. It’s not my job to save them from themselves.
The Democrats shot themselves in the foot by promoting abortion so much, especially among the blacks. If those millions of blacks weren’t killed before birth they’d have overwhelmingly grown up to be Democrat voters. In which case states such as PA and MI would be firmly blue, not swing.
“This means it is a local issue.”
Anyone who’s done politics knows your local issues are just as controlled and fabricated by the same people.
DeSantis was another example which I got lots of gnashing of teeth from conservatives and the dissident right when I pointed it out early on…until it became so damn obvious it was blinding.
This is a shared delusion (local issues) by the conservatives and the dissident right which says a lot.
The one thing that really really really turned me off about the DeSantis was when he pandered to the Jews by signing that bill the Florida legislature passed in Israel. Evangelicals and Jews may love that, but whatever votes he gains from them are more than canceled out by the growing chorus of people like me for whom this is a huge turnoff.
Every state with a “based” governor did the same—and no others did. Never has a message been more clearly sent. And I’ve seen *not one* conservative receive it.
Exactly. Suck all the oxygen out of the room with ABORTION while stealing the country out from under the rubes’ noses. As if I should care about bolsheviks removing themselves from the gene pool.
The oleaginous Speaker Ryan did the same thing in Trump’s first term with the TAXES nobody cared about or campaigned on.
I am totally turned off by the culture wars these days. Of course, I lead an Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle and also wish that everybody else did, but that’s the least of our problems today. Culture wars give the Whigs an excuse for being flaccid do nothings. They’re not going to manipulate me with this sort of thing anymore.
Abortion is not solely a local/state issue. The Dems promise to codify Roe on steroids at the federal level if they get the chance, making it no longer a local/state issue. That is what they are running on. If the GOP runs on a federal ban, they will lose and Roe+ will be federal law overruling state restrictions. Voters in red states, when given the choice of no restrcitions or a ban, chose no restrictions. That was when they had the chance to vote solely on the abortion issue. Ohio voted pro abortion but still elected GOP politicians. Not sure… Read more »
From the moment the Court ruling was handed down, I have made the claim that the Fed will eventually legalize full-term abortions across the entire country, overruling any state or local objection. Much like the ban on gay marriage in California, an initiative against an issue will be used to universally legalize said issue.
We will see. But I think this will be one of Biden’s second term’s accomplishments.
The Dems will have the same problem as the GOP. All it takes is a few Senators to filibuster it in the Senate. Then there is the issue of the courts, which will most likely overturn this scheme and send it back down to the states. In other words, it is just part of the same grift as the federal abortion ban.
I agree with your analysis when considering the country as pertains to the political landscape today. When you consider, however, how it may be reshaped in the next election, and then some court-packing or a retirement or two, suddenly those checks go away.
I admit freely that I do not know the logistical shenanigans that will accomplish the institution of full-term abortions, but I feel this is the way the culture is shifting and the thing our elites want. Time will tell!
Give it a few years, conservatives will support late term abortion too. They’re always just a few years late.
> Give it a few years, conservatives will support late term abortion too.
Of course! We have to have outreach to the wahmin. You might think sacrificing babies to Moloch is wrong, but sacrificing babies to Moloch is the ONLY way we can elect TRUE CONSERVATIVES!
Conservativism is merely the trailing shadow of radicalism as it races toward perdition. Or words to that effect…
Trump clearly thinks Abortion is a losing issue on the federal level, and has gone so far as to counter-signal some state measures against IVF. Kari Lake, trying to prove herself Trump’s top sycophant, railed against a court ruling allowing pro-life legislation to stay. There is clearly some frustration from Trump that he gave his supporters exactly what they wanted, and they aren’t satisfied. Well, welcome to politics. It would be better if he just kept his mouth shut on the issue, but we all know that’s not in his nature. The only plausible argument being made is we need… Read more »
Mission statement was always Eugenics. Effect, eugenics.
Nature has practiced eugenics for millions of years. Big-brained humans with their ethical constructs try and stymie it.
In the long run , eugenics win. Always.
That is my only real hope for the future.