With the holiday season upon us, it means I clean out the podcast attic of topics I thought about doing but did not do for some reason. One topic is the categorization of the political tribes and subcultures in this age. Despite the billions of words spewed forth by the internet every day, we lack a sensible way of describing our politics. We still fumble with antiquated terms like left and right.
It can be frustrating for people with a speaking role in politics, as you are often lumped in with people with whom you have little in common. An example in the show is Keith Woods, who claims to be a leader of the dissident right, even though the term was invented before he was born by and for people in a country with whom he shares little in common in terms of politics.
Of course, the reason he embraced the label “dissident right” is that the prior labels he used got a bad odor about them. His politics have not changed as the labels changed, so the labels only confuse things. This is why the term “dissident right” has lost its meaning and is no longer useful. As with citizenship, if anyone can join the dissident right, then there is no reason for it to exist.
This is not unique to the dissident right. “Conservative” has been a meaningless label in the United States since the Cold War. At one point, Bill Kristol, Bill Buckley and Goth Fonzi were all on Team Conservative. The only thing they had in common was the guys signing their paycheck. Conservatism became a land of unwanted toys and now it is just a punchline.
That is the show this week. It is a disorganized mess as I was mostly thinking out loud about the obvious political categories. At some point I would like to create a map like the one done years ago for the so-called right. Maybe something not tied to individuals who come and go, but to more permanent categories of political thought. It would also be nice to have some useful labels for these things.
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This Week’s Show
Contents
- Intro
- The End Of Dissident Right
- Labels & Ideology
- Naming Names
- Dissidents
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What term should be used for a person who likes Jerry Seinfeld, Sandy Koufax and Susanna Hoffs and has Jewish friends in their life, but also despises the fact that elite Jews hold incredible disproportionate power and influence over Western society and seek to silence those who point it out and question it, and also work furiously to drown White countries with Third World people?
“Antisemite” just doesn’t cut it. A new term is needed.
jewtruther
This is just normal thinking in Christian society for about 1500 years or so. Remember that these terms are used to define you. Like Z points out, nobody is really a “white supremacist” the way people talk about it, or even a “White nationalist.” Very few people they call “antisemites” have problems with Jews on an individual level, and even are acquainted with or friendly to Jews in their professional and personal life. Most people they call “transphobic” actually have a lot of sympathy for people who declare themselves transgender and understand this is a bad road they’re going down.… Read more »
NOTICER
Is this a struggle for national self-determination or not? If it is, then “loser” is the first term that springs to mind. I say this not unkindly, but merely as a statement of fact. If it is not, then this whole thing is a waste of time comparable to a Trekkie convention, so why bother to care? As for “anti-Semite”, I think that people who claim to be white advocates but use anti-white terminology are also losers. People like Anglin and Fuentes may behave like counterproductive punks or worse, but calling them anti-Semites is a form of anti-white collaboration. The… Read more »
Was right with you at the start. Not sure where the logic went awry, but might want to check your math. I think you probably dropped a sign somewhere. The first step has to be identification of the problem. One who sees Jews as a problem obviously must have identified some specific action that he wanted to do, but was prevented from doing so by inherently Jewish action(s). I doubt most people can point to even one such, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. Personally, I think Islam is a far greater threat than anything else we… Read more »
“Normal and not retarded”? Seinfeld is hilarious. Jews are great at assessing a situation and capitalizing upon it (see Punk and Glam Rock – I love Marc Bolan). At the same time, one must recognize that capitalizing upon situations in our modern world means a race to the bottom (see Punk and Glam Rock). And, certainly, we then arrive at the cusp of the global Svengali.
Even the antisemites get a pass for Susanna Hoffs.
“Zinc Wigger” 🙂
Perfect name for him!
or the big fat brown buffalo!
Linguistic balkanization is a good thing. It allows people to form up to focus on common interests. And there are many interests as there are personality types. On my saltier days, I tend to break it down into control freaks vs. individualists. The collapse of organized religion tracks to this breakdown because it has been consolidating the control freaks and driving out individualists for decades. Either you’re an economic unit owned by the authorities and you do what your told or you are a rational actor, you own you, and the purpose of “authority” is to simply keep the peace.… Read more »
Judean peoples’ front? No, wait, the PFJ!
SPLITTER!
Z man
I like the Occidental Club idea for a shirt.
I like Occidental Club, too. Z works, too.
I worry that people might think that “Z” stands for “Zelensky”. Also, I think there was some trouble a few years ago with “Z” being banned in European countries because it was supposed to have some connection with Russia’s battles in Ukraine.
I would buy an Occidental Club shirt. Those in the know might associate it with the Occidental Observer which is just fine with me!
Or possibly Hunter Wallace’s Occidental Dissent…
Man, I really liked the term “alt-right”. Too bad it has been tainted. I suppose we know what Catholic Monarchists felt like in Scotland in 1568. Or what National Socialists in Ireland felt like in 1946. Or how Libertarians feel now.
It was a great term, but it was easy to anathematize. I think the issue with labels is they need to be fixed. Marxism can be debated, but only within the framework Karl Marx. Libertarianism can be stretched in every direction because it is not tied to a specific person and his ideas.
One could argue Bastiat, Hayek and Mises are as fundamental to libertariansm as Marx, Engels and Lenin are to Marxism.
I agree with you. I’d add Rothbard with a big exclamation point, too.
But @Zman’s argues (rightly, IMO) that right-libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are no more than a tiny splinter of a splinter, while the left-libertarians, playing on sloppy emotionalism rather than logic and reason, are much more appealing.
In today’s world, one cannot really discuss things like, for instance, the effects of tariffs, but rather only how they make one feel.
That’s the problem, they keep stealing our terms. Kind of like how the Left defines everyone as “racist,” “denialist,” or “white supremacist.” Taking that last term literally, I have no problem with it. Whites should remain the majority in America, and in a democratic re public, we’d set policy. Doesn’t mean we’d have to go back to Jim Crow. Not that that would be an entirely bad thing. Blacks were actually better off in those days, I think.
They did the same with discrimination. To discriminate, in the past, meant to be able to discern differences (e.g., a discriminating palate). The journey of this word to its modern anathemic use is the story of the Left’s control of the morality writ large.
The language has been so corrupted that I no longer care what labels are used or by whom. They can call me notsee, hater, anti or phobic whatever, and I just chuckle. I smile at the reaction if I call myself a fascist. While ethno-nationalist is a term I’ve used, it doesn’t feel totally satisfactory. Only thing that really matters is the friend/enemy distinction, and that is quite clear. People who can’t/won’t call the other side ‘enemies’ are the ones who are confused, weak willed, and always willing to lose – regardless of label.
When I’m online and get called a “racist”, “homophobe” or one of the other myriad leftist labels, I generally reply that they’re using the word as a stand in for “bad person” according to their moral code, and since I don’t share their morality I’m not in the least bothered by the charge. At this point they either slink away or their firmware glitches and they continue to repeat the charge as if no response has been made (this also tracks with the feminine instinct to have the last word). I only do it once, and move on.
On the small business quip here is an interesting one. Theil is clearly a major force behind this attempt to reform the GAE. Yet his big thing is how competition is for losers. Why? It doesn’t scoop up all of the money in the room and lead to unfathomable profits.
How is that any different than the current GAE? Where is the impulse to reform?
Something to put in our pipes and smoke.
Theil is unquestionably correct, based on the current situation. Government power is being used to create winners and losers in business, and everything else, for that matter.
It’s not a huge deal for Theil if government were defanged, and could no longer make or break peaceful people of the wrong persuasion. He’s already got his, and, from his POV, would prefer not to be broken. That may be his entire calculus, pure self-interest, but if it aligns with mine and every other producer’s, I’m not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.
I always appreciate it when you mention Libertarians, it brings me back to my activist days. Man, what a circus that was! Everything from LGBT and swingers to White Nationalists. We were even talking to the Warren Jeffs people, didn’t realize what a bunch of scumballs they were. I guess I enjoyed hobnobbing with the weirdos which probably makes me a weirdo myself. BTW, these days I call myself a populist. It’s as good a label as any, I guess.
Populist is a good word. Allows both the “left” and the “right” to identify themselves in relation to the regime. Lately I see more leftists, or former leftists, calling themselves populists. I identified myself as a populist sometime pre Trump, back when it was considered a positive word, then it became a bad word when he got elected, now it is becoming a good word again. The Satan Pope has denounced populism, so we know we are in the right for embracing it, both in word and deed.
We may be dissidents, but it connotes a limited vision. Is that what we aspire to be? Does that mean we don’t want to win? If we do win, then what are we? We need something that transcends the current moment. I like the term Occidental Man and the Occident. It is grounded in antiquity and reflects the view of who we are as a people and binds us to our ancient homelands using the language of our people into the mists of time. Occidental Traditionalists. Traditionalists for short. Of course, what is our tradition? Well, our tradition is Occidental… Read more »
In hindsight, 2016 was definitely the dog catching up to the car. But I think that in 2024 we have a much better picture of our enemy, their tactics, the scope and limits of influence that Trump can have in the White House, the path forward, and what can be done. As Z points out in his podcast, something as simple as pushing for a return of free association would be huge. Pete Quinones has talked about busting the myths of World War II and even something like that, just getting it into the consciousness, is enormous.
Whi were the pre-Greek Aryans?
The various Yamnaya descended Steppe Aryans. Their language, Proto-IndoEuropean is our mother tongue. They went into Western and Eastern Europe, Anatolia, Persia and into the Himalayas. The Egyptians also have their DNA so it is assumed they were the warrior priests of that empire for at least some portion of it as well.
Sanskrit and Latvian are the two closest languages to Proto-IndoEuropean. Latin and Greek are also direct descendants.
Hope that helps.
Rush Limbaugh was on top of the issue of “conservative” being a word that needed to be retired long before anybody else in the mainstream. I thought it was a reach back then, but it turns out he was on to something. He understood.
Dissident Realist seems to work for me. Currently. It seems to be constantly evolving.
I always liked “race realist” but certainly that term will scare the normies. My wife is the perfect barometer. She’s very conservative, but if she flips out, I know normie will flip out as well.
“Realist” always has bad optics because it carries the connotation that you are part of the “truth” instead of one of those idealistic unicorn farts types.
White ethno-state? That ship has sailed. Anyone who claims to be a “realist” of any flavor needs to start with a frank admission of where we are, and a realistic path to a better future. Though it’s the path I took, since I don’t see a realistic way out, going Galt is no better answer for a race realist than it is for a libertarian.
Right now, can’t beat plain-old Nationalist. Ramzpaul used to say this was what he was, and I think it’s the best and snappiest label until something else comes along. You can be a civnat or WN. Christian Nationalist. Turkish Nationalist or Tibetan Nationalist. Quebec Nationalist. It can be broad or narrow. It’s vague, but with a bite: ALL peoples deserve a homeland. It is normie-friendly (Oooh, the Irish deserve their own country!”) and progressive-friendly (oooh, the Palestinians deserve their own country!”) yet repels progressives (Ooooh, white nationalism is Nazism!”) while forcing them to reveal their anti-white bias. It also removes… Read more »
I prefer traditionalist. It roots one in the customs, heritage and culture of our people before we collectively went soft in the head.
I thought everyone would get a kick out of this. Medium, the ultimate globo-homo digi-rag had a story on why Bluesky is having exponential growth. They featured an engineer named Jaz.
Jaz’s bio:
Jaz
Gender Nomad
IRC made me gay
Backend (Go) & Infra @ Bsky
Does musical things and computer things
27. they/them 🏳️⚧️
Go Jaz in the safe space.
Somewhat OT or perhaps not “Morgoth” on substack (a very English gentleman) believes the UK will become a Woke North Korea as much of Europe and the US puts away the woke. Interestingly, Canada’s Trudeau enthusiastically says he’ll arrest Bibi, as does the UK’s Starmer. International Lawfare relies on these people and the Thermidorean Reaction in the US will likely seek to remove them as the UK has now targeted Musk. The UK’s Parliament has “summoned” Musk to “explain” his “disinformation” on X. The next step is an arrest warrant for Musk and the US does have an extradition treaty.… Read more »
Why did the cucks allow the insane SJWs to rebrand themselves as woke?
They absolutely hated and despised being called SJWs. The term is dripping with sarcasm and ridicule. Woke has no such effect on them. It’s their word. They love it.
Labels work both ways. They re-label us with labels we hate. SJW is the weapon of the right that White Supremacist or Racist is the weapon of the left.
somewhat OT: Blue Sky (conspiracy website mentioned in the podcast). And we now have Mt. Blue Sky (formerly Mt. Evans) the big mountain west of Denver. They changed the name in 2023 but I didn’t hear about it until this year. They claim it was what the indians called it but I never heard that before. And who made the decision to change the name? It’s all part of purging the past, the whole monuments business, imo. I have this suspicion it’s connected somehow to the weird murals at the Denver airport? We know there are underground labyrinths under that… Read more »
I’d label myself as an iconoclast. I want to destroy every deleterious institution, policy and person who works against our interests whether they be on the ‘right’ or the ‘left’. It’s a good all-encompassing term to describe my politics.
The demographic problem is fixable, we just need the political will. It can be considered “fixed” without perfection. Perfection is likely not possible, but fixing it is. There are very few diverse people in the US who would be stateless if we revoked their citizenship, plus many millions are flat out illegal aliens with no citizenship to revoke. Mexico has foreign birth citizenship. Any kid born in the US of Mexican parents are Mexican. The same is true of some other ethnic groups. These people walked here and they can walk home. A large portion weren’t even born here and… Read more »
Hmmmmmm…. I lost all use for labels with the dissolution of the old Alt Right.When fags like Milo, Spencer and Vox Day started schtumping under the label I started looking for better digs. I am not happy with the idea of abandoning the Dissident label to the faggotry and clowns as it sets a terrible precedent. If they are allowed to take possession of the labels then eventually they will take over any label you come up with. I get that Dissidents are uncomfortable with policing their own ranks; lest the wrong people do the policing – which to me… Read more »
Going on about how everyone else isn’t a REAL conservative doesn’t further the cause.
The primary issue, the one on which all others depend, is the GR and reversing it. Someone is either on our side for that or they aren’t. That’s where we draw the friend/enemy distinction.
Good show. The labels people put on have long been problematic. The basic problem is that what “Right” means to one person means something completely different to another person. This is exacerbated by the mass perfidy problem you discussed earlier this week. Very interesting ZMan. I had you for a person who supports mass deportation. Could you make a show about what it is you envision? Do you think we have a demographic problem? What is/are that/those problem(s)? What other problems does that create? What do you propose as the solutions assuming you and a faction you had on your… Read more »
Canada does have a federal Green Party, and most of the provinces have one as well. They’re small, though in a few places they’ve ended up supporting a larger party in a minority government situation. I think there’s a Green Party in the UK as well.
Semantic confusion will continue because the establishment finds it useful to obfuscate differences, and hide their true affiliations and allegiances.
However, for better or worse we are on the cusp of a new socioeconomic order (the so-called “Fourth Turning”), which will inevitably create a different establishment, a different constitution (even if the meaningless text is retained), and different semantics.
Same confusion, though.
One could say we already have the new establishment, the new constitution (although the meaningless text has been retained). So either it has already happened or we are about to get a new new establishment.
The recent election of Donald Trump goes to show you that many people are against liberal policies, but have been voiceless in a media landscape that tilts overwhelmingly left. The public disenfranchisement of these men is striking when you consider how much money they have cumulatively to spend. How is it possible that left-wing ideology can trump the almighty dollar? We live in a world where reality is divorced from its presentation, as the mainstream media struggles to stretch the truth till it snaps. I find it amazing that Fox News even exists. If you didn’t know better, by watching… Read more »
The only demographic that voted majority Trump was Whites. Also, the riggers took a year off. Waiting a little longer will yield no more re-puke-lican presidents.
The exit poll diviners say hispanic males were close to even between Trump/Harris. And Trump also got the biggest share of negro males of any R since 1960. I think it’s just fewer of them being willing to vote for a woman president, and as soon as the Ds nominate another man (if they can bring themselves to) then they’ll go back to voting D. However, if the Ds can’t bring themselves to nominate another man, and I think that’s a real possibility, I don’t think they’re even capable of having a conversation with themselves about whether or not they… Read more »
“addict of topics”. So even you can’t get it right. AI. Sloppy.
“addict of topics”. So even you can’t get it right. AI. Sloppy.”
What the hell. Simple spelling error for “attic”. I read right over it. You our new spelling/grammar Nazi? Or have I misunderstood your comment?
I read over it too & I really doubt AI can convincingly discuss the vagaries of the term dissident right or would even be allowed to in the first place. What a bizarre accusation.
I read morons who sometimes claim that Shakespeare was a composite or someone else or whatever retarded modern theory. The bottom line is, When you read Shakespeare’s works, you get a consistent sense of the man behind the words. There is one man, and he is whoever wrote those words. Now, Z is no Shakespeare (who is?), but you definitely get a sense of the man behind the words. I don’t know what Z looks like or his bio, but I have the sense of the man. That is the ultimate AI detector. For reference, here is your query in… Read more »
I’ve always assumed his occasional spelling errors were due to speech-to-text.
What is wrong with you? This is not normal behavior.
What happened to the thread software? Different the past few days.
The plugin has a bug, so I disabled it. Otherwise, everything was blurry and weird.
It may be working now. Let me know if there are still issues.
Seems to be back to normal.
Yep, normal now.
The issue was because a poster put a malformed URL in his username, I think. Deleting that user’s post, if you could do that, probably would have resolved the issue.