The Death Of Progressivism

Note: Behind the green door, there is a post about how the presentness of this age results in collective amnesia, a post how AI will destroy us, a video from the bed of my truck and the Sunday podcast. Subscribe here or here.


In certain circles the triumph of Donald Trump is being viewed as either a sign that liberalism is dying out or the sign that it is dying and the forces opposed to it are finally on the ascendant. Still others, stuck in the thinking of the last century, see the victory of Trump as a sign that the forces of darkness are ready to turn out the lights on the liberal order they are committed to defend. In both cases, there is that old problem of language in that no one seems to have the same definition of liberalism.

This confusion is not helped by the fact that for about a century the people at the retail end of politics have used the word “liberal” as a label. In the United States, people we call the left also use the term liberal. In fact, they often use the term left to mean super-liberal or radically liberal with liberal simply meaning pro-government. Liberals for example, want Medicare for all, while the left wants single payer. To confuse things even more, the right wants government regulated healthcare.

Putting aside the retail use of the word liberal, there is confusion as to what is meant by liberalism in modern discourse. The civic nationalists continue to insist it means the moral and political systems based on things like individual rights, equality before the law and the consent of the governed. Critics tend to view it as the collection of bourgeois cultural and social fads that have ripped through the West. One imagines liberalism as John Locke and the other as John Rawls.

The truth is the liberalism of the 18th century has been dead for a long time. In Europe, ideology replaced liberalism in the 19th century. The triumph of ideology resulted in two great industrial wars in the 20th century and then the rise of managerialism in response to the dominance of the American empire and the Cold War. In Europe, the dominant political order is managerialism. Rights, equality before the law and the consent of the governed exist only as rhetorical flourishes.

In the United States, the Lockean liberalism of the Framers quickly gave way first to a reformist Protestantism, culminating in the Civil War. This slowly gave way to what was called progressivism in the 20th century. progressivism is the reformist Protestantism of the past but stripped of its Christian overtones. The mental and moral structures remain but lacking the fixed points of Scripture and the Christian conception of God, the implementation has wandered all over the place.

Another way to think of it is that the European left travelled down a road that began with the decline in Christian faith. The first step was to use reason to arrive at the same ethical conclusions as Christianity, just without the Christianity. This then led to thinking about new ethical conclusions based on reason alone. Ideology is, after all, a set of moral claims backed by the authority of reason. The two great industrial wars in Europe were about how we ought to organize ourselves.

In the United States, reason has never played much of a role in what has often been called liberalism, because it never dropped the mental structures that it inherited from the Protestant reformers. The original progressives littered their language with references to Scripture. This stopped in the 20th century as Jews joined the elite and entered progressive politics. The moral structures stayed in place, but the authority for them simply disappeared, but has always been assumed.

It is why the people we currently call the left are so fond of claiming that they are on the right side of history. In part, this is a reference to the Hegelian historicism they experienced in college but is much closer to the Calvinist sense that the righteous act as they do because they are righteous. Instead of being on the right side of history, they could just as easily claim to be on the side of angels. They do what they do because they are trying to bring the rest of us along to the glorious future.

It is why modern progressivism is so thuggish. Without a Bible to hold up as his authority, the modern progressive has only her fist to shake at the crowd. Since she is on the right side of history, she is the white hat, so anyone in opposition must be the black hat and against the black hat, you must use any means necessary. What was called Woke was the fanaticism of the Puritan but untethered from Scripture and the reason to interpret and apply Scripture.

This explains the progressive takeover of Protestant churches. Instinctively, they seek moral authority for their claims, so they take over the old moral authority and decorate it with their symbols. Elite divinity schools are full of progressives who reject everything about Christianity, but they seek the framing of Christianity to animate their own progressive moral claims. Protestantism gave birth to progressivism and then was slowly devoured by it.

One of the oldest debates within Christianity is between faith and reason. This is the source of the phrase, Athens and Jerusalem. What we see with progressivism is the end result of that debate. The people called woke are briming with faith, but devoid of reason, so what they believe cannot be expressed in words. Woke was a visceral expression of progressive faith. The often-comical irrationality of it was the logical end of the abandonment of reason.

The growing sense that the fever has broken, which some see as a sign of the end of liberalism, is something much simpler. The fever has broken, and that fever was the secular religious fervor of late stage progressivism. It was the primal scream of faith without reason. What this signals is not the death of liberalism, which happened long ago, but the death of progressivism. Like a demon leaving the body of the possessed, the old Calvinist demon is leaving American politics.


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Mycale
Mycale
1 day ago

In 2017, if that dopey woman “pastor” gave that “sermon” (which was just a MSNBC screed), she would have been paraded in the media for months as the bravest person who ever lived. And sure she got some press in the progressive sphere but people mostly rolled their eyes and laughed at her. We’re all sick of hearing this stuff and it doesn’t work anymore. These people had their chance to remake the country in their image for the past 15 years or so, and it turns out we do not want what they are selling and it is our… Read more »

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

“Woman pastor,” LOL.

Christ’s disciples were all men…

Ivan
Ivan
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

womyn

rayj
rayj
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

‘I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man’ (1 Timothy 2:11) Can’t say you weren’t told. Scripture affirms unambiguously that females are not to teach men. Further, women are not allowed to assume ANY type of authority over a man. No woman-pastors. No women teachers. No women supervisors. No girlbosses. No women judges. No women cops. No household Disney Princesses, because that’s the generational lifeblood of Feminism. No queens (Once-Great Britain, I’m looking at you. You asked for it and you’re getting it). Conservative and Christian men believe that females are superior morally… Read more »

fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

No women voters!

rayj
rayj
Reply to  fakeemail
1 day ago

No women voters yup, no women with power in any public institutional sphere.

Who dragged the nation Unceasingly Left over the past century, and compromised the churches of God? Supra.

fremde
fremde
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

Christcucks always,always go after white countries.

England/Britain/UK had constitutional monarchs some who were women.

Russia had queens and empresses;as did Spain.
Then again Russia is a toilet.

America has gotten it,is getting it, and will continue to get it at a turbo pace thanks to Trump. Don’t blame women for the next chapter of dissolution.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

Timothy doesn’t go as far as no women in secular government. Paul is pretty laser focused on the Church in his letters to Timothy.
That said, women as political leaders is a pretty clear Biblical curse. One of the few female leaders who the Israelites had (Deborah) was ashamed for the guys who asked to lead.

mazarin
mazarin
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

Of course a Catholic implies English girls deserve to be raped by Pakistanis.Maybe those rape gangs are a vehicle for your god’s vengeance?
I bet ,when you read about all those rapes, it made your day.
Does that mean your Pope is right when he says the real problem is when victims of paedos speak up, rather than the raping?

Been to France and the UK and I gotta say France is closer to the abyss.
Hopefully they never vote for Marine Le Pen and keep voting for Macron or maybe Melenchon!

Who’s the child in that photo?

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  mazarin
1 day ago

I don’t believe Rayj is a Catholic.

ray
ray
Reply to  Piffle
22 hours ago

Catholic as a child. Not Catholic now.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

“1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV): Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” This is how you know what church/denomination/ministry has fallen into error (taken position against the very Biblical teachings they claim to follow). Unfortunately that seems to include many (most?) Protestant denominations. Trump, who is a Christian in name only, should/would have known this and never attended such… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Compsci
Templar
Templar
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

Trump, who is a Christian in name only…

Let’s not make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Templar
1 day ago

No, but the truth has intrinsic value. Trump is not a Christian and does not know the Bible and its teachings. Therefore he is an easy mark for those charlatans who do and those who practice such false teachings. He is defenseless against those people, when it would be easy to defeat them on their own terms.

Templar
Templar
Reply to  Compsci
19 hours ago

Trump is not a Christian and does not know the Bible and its teachings.

“Sir Arthur St. Clare, as I have already said, was a man who read his Bible. That was what was the matter with him. When will people understand that it is useless for a man to read his Bible unless he also reads everybody else’s Bible? A printer reads a Bible for misprints. A Mormon reads his Bible, and finds polygamy; a Christian Scientist reads his, and finds we have no arms and legs.”

-G.K. Chesterton, The Innocence of Father Brown

Last edited 19 hours ago by Templar
ray
ray
Reply to  Templar
1 day ago

There are many things in which Donald need not be perfect, but this is not one of them.

Trump is a CINO. America is either a Christian nation, or a feminist and woke nation. Scriptural Christianity is the foundation of a nation, as it receives God’s favor.

A president who is a REAL Christian, and guided by Scripture, is non-negotiable. Because anything else will fail.

Pozymandias
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

I’m not so sure. The only recent President who was (maybe) a “real” Christian was GW Bush. That didn’t exactly give him the best decision making skills. The value of traditional faith for those of us who are skeptical about the specific spiritual claims it makes, is that it hews more closely to the realities of the human condition than modern secular liberalism, not to mention things like Marxist utopianism. It’s ironic that if you start with a purely secular mindset, based in evolutionary psychology and an understanding of the fact that existing races have evolved in isolation for quite… Read more »

ray
ray
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 day ago

G.W. Bush is a globalist, and worse. He is decidedly NOT a Christian.

fremde
fremde
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

Christianity is globalist. Jesus was a cuck.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 day ago

Dub-ya was a phoney, all the way through.
I believe that Carter was a (born again) Christian, but hardly the most effective guy to ever camp out in the oval office.

Luther's Turd
Reply to  rasqball
1 day ago

An evangelical, hence a confused Christian.

Luther’s Turd

Dutchboy
Dutchboy
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

Unfortunately, too many of the Christians in this country search scripture and find Christian Zionism therein.

Templar
Templar
Reply to  ray
18 hours ago

There are many things in which Donald need not be perfect, but this is not one of them.

As much as I’d like for America to be governed by a Catholic warrior-king in the vein of Louis IX, that’s just not in the cards right now. Best to work with what we have at hand, and Trump represents a major improvement over his predecessors. More devout men will follow.

ray
ray
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

‘Trump, who is a Christian in name only, should/would have known this and never attended such an assembly.’ Right. Any real Christian would never invite that woman, who is the express enemy of God and nation, to attend. ‘This is how you know what church/denomination/ministry has fallen into error’ Yep, that’s an excellent litmus test. Donald is lost spiritually, as indicated long ago with his embrace of a New Age witch — Paula White, an ‘apostalic leader’ — as his Spiritual Advisor. Somebody his daughter would just luuurve! That’s as lost as lost gets. To date, Donald is a creature… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by ray
Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

This ability to read the state of souls is quite impressive. 🙂 David tended to be pretty impulsive and somewhat a creature of his surrounding culture.
I don’t know who inherits the Kingdom. I’ll let you know if by some surprise I make it myself.

Templar
Templar
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

Christ’s disciples were all men…

And warned us that women should not speak in church, let alone be ordained.

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

My view is that we should allow women as pastors but with a cap so that it doesn’t get above a quarter or a third.

What I worry more about is women as invasive species. Once something becomes x percent female, the men run away

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
1 day ago

No. Absolutely not.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
1 day ago

Once something becomes x percent female, the men run away

All the more reason to keep them ALL out. This kind of kudzu-like invasive feminization is particularly destructive in places like science and technology where brilliant men are driven off to make room for mediocre women.

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 day ago

but that’s the thing – if it’s capped at a certain level – can things remain pretty stable?

Oak Park, IL (suburban area adjacent to the west side chicago ghetto) has retained a white majority because the real estate agents had an informal “one black per block” policy that steve sailer has mentioned

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 day ago

Alas, feminism was only one, and probably a lesser reason for women in the workforce. Sometime in the 60s, men decided that they needed–or wanted–a second income. At that point, the prohibitions against women working attenuated, women began to enter the workforce in increasing numbers, and 70s feminism accelerated the process. And seeing as how most households in the West have become dependent on two incomes, it is difficult to see how we can put that particular djinn back in the bottle.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

Taking steps to increase real wages would be a good first move. The more lucrative the husband’s career, the less necessary the woman’s is.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

And seeing as how most households in the West have become dependent on two incomes, it is difficult to see how we can put that particular djinn back in the bottle.”

It can be done, but it requires some will that just doesn’t exist right now.

ray
ray
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
22 hours ago

I can think of a number of way to, as you say, put the djinn back. Takes wanna first.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  ray
21 hours ago

Problem is that in order to put sufficient pressure to pay men 2.25x current wages, you need men willing to stop working for 1.0x wages.

Do you believe there are many men who would do that?

Or can that maybe be only approached from the other side? Bring cost of living down to where one guy’s income is enough for a family?

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
1 day ago

I made a “notebook observation” back in ’95 that once an office workspace becomes greater than 25% female, the “tone of everything chages”, and NOT for the better. I stand by that observation, and as an aside, can you find me a white-collar ocupation in AD 2025 that is less than 50% skirts?
(It’s be a shame to keep female orgaizational talent out completely, but, things being what they are…)

ray
ray
Reply to  rasqball
1 day ago

Yup.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  rasqball
1 day ago

Certain tech fields are still heavily male-dominated. I was in one.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  rasqball
11 hours ago

This is exactly what happened to the professoriate in the academy. Once it became feminized, the university was ruined.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

You think they were trying to tell us something by naming the traitor in their midst Judas?

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

Progressives are aware of the scorn and ridicule, too, due to media they no longer control. For utter narcissists, that must really burn.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

Paul banned women as leaders if the early Church, and the Bible specifically warned against being led by women…Apparently, their shortcomings as leaders, both secular and spiritual, have been visible for millennia…And the left is almost entirely a feminist movement, which started with Carrie Nation and her followers, who sought not only the vote for women, but abolition of alcohol, and socialism…All quite successfully, but proving disastrous for the American nation….

Mycale
Mycale
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 day ago

Obviously, the entire thing was ridiculous and feels like a setup – and Trump seems to have caught on to that. It happened quite a bit in the first term.

This is where I do wish Trump was a more religious man. How effective would it have been if he went out there and said this, thus undermining any spiritual authority that this “pastor” claims to have and wield over him.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

Exactly. He should have stood up and left the assembly. He could have taken a middle ground and simply said that the “minister” had forgotten her spiritual duty’s in favor of political activism. No conservative religionists would have taken affront—and the other would have been put on notice.

stranger in a strange land
stranger in a strange land
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

or stood up with his back turned to her till the screed was ended.

Tars Tarkas
Member
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

“And sure she got some press in the progressive sphere but people mostly rolled their eyes and laughed at her.”

Wrong response. Her immediate excommunication from the church and shunning would have been a much better response. In a better time, she’d have been charged as a witch.

Mycale
Mycale
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 day ago

The Episcopal Church is fully on board with her message, as it is the church of the GAE. It’s the church for the type of people who flew pride and BLM flags outside our embassies to make a point, if they have a church.

Zfan
Zfan
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

That’s why I and the Episcopal Church split. I couldn’t abide the progressivism, it had an immune response, and we mutually rejected each other.

davidcito
davidcito
Reply to  Zfan
22 hours ago

Supposedly episcopalians have the highest IQs of all religious sects.

Zfan
Zfan
Reply to  davidcito
9 hours ago

So we think, but IQ does not equal either wisdom or faith.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 day ago

“Her immediate excommunication from the church and shunning would have been a much better response.”

I appreciate the sentiment but this has not been keeping track of the Anglican church in the 20th century. They “ordained” her.

Last edited 1 day ago by Piffle
Filthie
Filthie
Member
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

Past 20, 25 years maybe? The hell of progressivism is that eventually you WILL get mugged by reality. Were a few swirls further down the progressive toilet than America is in Canada and the wheels are coming off. People no longer have a choice. The first 10 or 15 years of the progressive age were great in Canada. Canadians LIVE freak shows and the queers, vibrant, and clowns were happy to perform. It’s easy to make fun and laugh while Darwin and Murphy have sport with others… but if it goes long enough everyone else will get sucked into that… Read more »

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
1 day ago

Off topic– So I actually wrote this post last night but decided to save it for today. But I was so disturbed last night it had to come out, so here we go. This place (the US) is cooked. Even if Trump deported a -million- illegals this year, and he won’t come even close to that, the die is already cast. The horse is out of the barn, whatever analogy you prefer. We’d need at least 5 million a year for the next 4 years to even come close to reversing and they simply don’t have the will or the… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 day ago

“We’d need at least 5 million a year for the next 4 years to even come close to reversing and they simply don’t have the will or the manpower for it.” Exactly. It can’t be done. Same situation wrt Climate Change. Solution—mitigate damage. Sour the milk for illegals. Kill job’s, destroy welfare for IA’s, prevent political involvement. Offer incentives for “voluntary” repatriation. Deport immediately all who run afoul of the law. This of course may well be impossible as the reason IA’s were admitted in the first place is that they were desired by TPTB and served their purposes. Nonetheless,… Read more »

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 day ago

Yep. Got off the Interstate to get gas in Ogallala, Nebraska fourteen years ago and there were a bunch of coal-black Africans of some kind walking down the street. And Ogallala is the most dusty, roughneck, stereotypically-Western mud-and-cow-piss town I have ever personally seen.

I hear there are Somalis in Grand Island, too…

Some Guy
Some Guy
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

Driving around Boise, Idaho, it is amazing how many coal blacks one sees. They weren’t here 3 years ago. The treachery of our elites is monstrous. Nowhere is safe.

Lakelander
Lakelander
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

20 years ago when I was at my freshman orientation at Nebraska-Lincoln I remember mentioning to my dad in the car about how there were barely any minorities in this city (part of the allure for me, even back then). At that moment, we just so happened to pass the state penitentiary to which I exclaimed “OH, there they are!”

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 day ago

Apex – Good luck and God speed. Expect the usual denials and ‘black piller’ labels in response. People here are too busy celebrating the ‘winning’ of a dyke Coast Guard head getting sh*t canned, while ignoring all the other womyn and degenerates she’s seeded the ranks with in the past few years. My husband sees the same demographic dregs as you when he must make his business trips. We are blessed to live in a heritage White town/county, but we don’t pretend it’s anything more than a fading remnant of the America we grew up in. People would much rather… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 day ago

Glad you found a new home. Have to say that I agree. It’s nice what’s going on with Trump, but it’s too late to save the country as a whole. We’ll see if we can carve something out, but if you’re in the right stage of life, it’s probably best to try and find a new country.

Fast-Turtle
Fast-Turtle
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

This country has been dog-eat-dog for some time. At least now I get to see the fear in the eyes of the local ‘immigrants’ that only a few weeks ago strutted around toting their Friday Modelo like they owned my town. Where I live 50% of whytes are liberals, and they took the bait so deep, there is no getting the hook out of their gullet. One, a recent big city transplant to my small town put a ‘black’ patch’ on his Faceberg page on Inaugration Day – guy is 59, just started a new job at local uni and… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Fast-Turtle
usNthem
usNthem
Reply to  Fast-Turtle
1 day ago

One of the many things I despise about s***libs is they always just assume everyone thinks the same as they do and always feel free to blab their TDS and obnoxious opinions to whomever they’re speaking with. Oh, and TDS is a real affliction as far as I’m concerned – someone needs to come with pill or maybe electroshock therapy…

Steve
Steve
Reply to  usNthem
1 day ago

someone needs to come with pill or maybe electroshock therapy…”

Taser or chair?

usNthem
usNthem
Reply to  Steve
23 hours ago

LOL – they’re probably mostly incurable, so I’d say chair!

Fast-Turtle
Fast-Turtle
Reply to  usNthem
11 hours ago

It is seriously a weird defect on their part. An overall sign of their defective status — they blurt whatever trope enters their minds … as if the state-approved propaganda is THE WRIT. What I have noticed with most of them is if you mildly push back with some ‘wrongthink’ but they have not put you in the category of ‘bad orangeman supporter’ — say your shitlib neighbor you help jump start cars, simple things like that that shitlib wimp males cannot undertake — they say nothing, purse lips with a blank look on face …. then when the wrongthink… Read more »

Last edited 11 hours ago by Fast-Turtle
Fast-Turtle
Fast-Turtle
Reply to  Fast-Turtle
11 hours ago

Here, an example: Z Man Reader: Hey, what’s a matter over there? Shitlib Male: My c-c-car won’t start. I don’t know what to do. Z Man Reader: Hey, no problem, I will bring my truck around and jumper cables. Shitlib Male: Y-y-you can do that? Z Man Reader: Sure, it’s really not hard. Shitlib Male: Wow, that is so amazing! D-d-did you hear about that P-p-poo tinn? Invading Ukraine for no reason he is s-s-so, he’s Hitler! Z Man Reader: Are you aware a lot of Ukrainians fought on the side of the 3rd Reich in World War Two? Shitlib… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

There will be carve-outs. We see that shaping up now. They also will be under constant siege, at least initially. Some European nations will survive qua nations. I suspect much of the censorship was and is aimed at keeping Euros from seeing what unfolds in North America. If someone is young enough and without enough life constraints, what Apex has done is the rational choice.

usNthem
usNthem
Reply to  Apex Predator
1 day ago

Fifty years ago, these swarthy POS’s were a novelty – pretty soon YT is going to be the freaking novelty…

rayj
rayj
1 day ago

‘It is why modern progressivism is so thuggish. Without a Bible to hold up as his authority, the modern progressive has only her fist to shake at the crowd. Since she is on the right side of history, she is the white hat, so anyone in opposition must be the black hat and against the black hat, you must use any means necessary’ Modern progressivism or Woke is thuggish (and totalitarian) because it is a female inspired and female dominated movement . . . in truth, a religion that already has replaced Christianity in America and much of the West.… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

“…the nations are over-run by the Religion of Women, which is what Woke really is, an endless empowering of females and disempowering and demeaning of males. . . even of masculinity itself.”

This! Wonderfully stated, Ray.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

Men let it happen for 100 years. /shrug

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Piffle
22 hours ago

This is indeed correct.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

Very well said. Not only the truth about women, but that everyone is busy declaring victory in a war that has yet to be fought. Trump may officially ‘cancel’ government sponsorship of DIE, but neither he nor his accolytes have nor will address the inherent and innate differences and inequality among the races and between the sexes. Cancelling symptoms/cutting off a head or two does not kill the Hydra.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  3g4me
1 day ago

3g, rayj, or Compsci, do you have an explanation about how such obvious prohibitions on homosexuality and female leadership are so blithely ignored by most Christians? How are these obvious violations of Scripture embraced by most Christians?

My explanation is that the media and the people who own it have an unprecedented power to dictate our morality due to their ubiquity. No people have encountered this totality of mass media before.

Last edited 1 day ago by LineInTheSand
3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

Line: People are stupid and easily led – period. Full stop. They want the easy answer and easy solutions. They don’t want to have to work – let alone hurt anyone’s feelings – to effect lasting change. E.g. see the thousands of comments telling all the mestizos and blacks to come back ‘legally’ and all will be just fine. Churchianity is no different and is feminized to the core.

ray
ray
Reply to  3g4me
1 day ago

The feminized route is the smoothest route. Most people go along with the crowd because that intuits safety. Men are less susceptible to the herd stampede, yet still quite vulnerable and weak, as our times illustrate.

Last edited 1 day ago by ray
Steve
Steve
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

Dispensationalism. Pretty much all sects are so insistent on distancing themselves from the OT, the Law and the prophets that He referred to, that they are suckers for the God of Love and similar Marcionite tripe. If one buys into dispensations it’s not much of a reach to go from “OT Law doesn’t apply because it’s old” to “Pauline restatement of OT Law doesn’t apply because it’s old.”

Last edited 1 day ago by Steve
ray
ray
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

You are so right. They don’t like what the OT says, so they pretend it’s been superseded by the NT or annulled by Christ. Which is not the case.

I’m an OT person although I recognize the superiority and inevitability of Christ’s ways — the Kingdom of the Father, the Kingdom of Love. Guess you could say I’m getting phased-out.

Last edited 1 day ago by ray
Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

Christ is God. What He added or annulled has all the same authority as the OT. It’s not a matter of personal preference.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Piffle
20 hours ago

What did He annul or add? I mean, we have His words saying “Not one jot, not one tittle til all has been fulfilled”. Pretty much regardless of sect, we believe He is coming again. So not all has been fulfilled. So who was telling Peter that pork was no longer unclean?

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Steve
11 hours ago

Look up what Jesus said about divorce. Remarriage is (generally) an adulterous act which it was not under the Mosaic Law. Christ seems to revert the Law here. For sure, he’s changing it without any appeal beyond Himself. Who was telling Peter he had the authority to change the Mosaic Law? Peter acted in the Church era, where the authority of the Father flowed through the Son and the Son bestowed it on Peter, at least when we’re talking about the area the practice of the religion and explanation of faith/morals. That’s why we can’t choose from the OT at… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

I think as Ray stated that our “Christianity” has become feminized and therefore subverted. We have been told repeatedly to be “non-judgmental”, accepting, forgiving, and to “turn the other cheek” to the point of tolerance of *evil* within our midst.

Not all sects and branches are this poz’d—yet. Of course, you are correct wrt to the media which once themselves infected served to spread and enforce the infection, but what was the disease? That is the question.

ray
ray
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

As I explain above, the disease has been with humanity almost from the beginning.

You could say that the disease came from outside humanity, but in different ways, both the male and the female proved susceptible to it. As was greatly desired by that outside influence.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

“How are these obvious violations of Scripture embraced by most Christians?” This is will be unpopular with the Protestants on the board, but from my view, it’s the logical conclusion of the right of private interpretation. Early Protestantism parallels the Catholic faith* in many ways. As Protestantism carries on in the next 500 years, stranger and stranger groups appear. Their ideas drift father from the Catholic faith as everyone gets a hold of a Bible and decides for themselves what it must mean. I can find Christian groups that think God hates alcohol consumption, when the NT is quite clear… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Piffle
1 day ago

And I think the OT even has a passage making fun of people who preach no alcohol.”

It goes way beyond that. In Deuteronomy 14:22ff, Moses lays out what the tithe is. And, interestingly enough, also that the expectation of the tax for “welfare” is 3%.

(He tells you what the tithe is three times, but this is the most clearly explained.)

Let me ask you: how many homilies have you listened to in your church where the tithe has been explained according to scripture? Are you certain that the covenant has been honored?

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

“Let me ask you: how many homilies have you listened to in your church where the tithe has been explained according to scripture? Are you certain that the covenant has been honored?” The Mosaic Law has been fulfilled in the New Covenant. We’re in the Church era, and so the Church talks about what to give and how much. There are lots of specifics that have “expired” in the Mosaic Law in favor of guidance that belongs to the current era. Further, proper tithing in an usuaristic/wage world is a little tricky. The tithe was 10% of the increase of… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Piffle
20 hours ago

Ah. Dispensationalism.

IME, most priests are perfectly happy lecturing about Malachai 3 and a few (out of context) verses in the NT, but I have heard exactly none talk about what Moses said about it.

Why is that? Why do they only talk about giving to the church, and therefore, them, rather than what Moses says tithing is all about?

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Steve
11 hours ago

What I discussed is not dispensationalism, which is busy carving up the NT and specifically Jesus to apply to different groups. I have no idea where your personal idea of what priests give homilies about is coming from. The Catholic Church in the Roman Rite works under 3 year lectionary. The vast majority of the Bible is proclaimed in 3 year cycle. Every Sunday Mass includes an OT reading, Psalms, an NT reading, and a Gospel reading for which we stand. Protestant pastors can recycle the same sermons to their hearts content. Catholic priests have to deal with this week’s… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Piffle
7 hours ago

You have no idea what dispensationalism is, do you? The Catholic church uses the term “dispensation” a little differently, more of a relaxation of the rules. The generally recognized dispensations are the Edenic Covenant, the Adamic covenant, the Noahic Covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, and what you are calling the Church Age. Most obviously are OT. Dispensationalists believe that God changed His mind and changed the rules of what it meant to be living a Godly life. Which is balderdash. Since He is perfect, all His decrees are perfect. Changing the rules would either mean His prior rules… Read more »

Last edited 7 hours ago by Steve
ray
ray
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

Howdy LITS: ‘How are these obvious violations of Scripture embraced by most Christians?’ Human beings are fallen and weak. Most prefer the easy road. These particular violations reach to the beginnings of humanity. Because the violations never have been overcome, they continue to operate and metastasize all down the line of generations. This world became cursed with suffering, death, and entropy because it was discovered that those violations existed in the primal man and woman. The woman rebelled against God via covetousness and the will-to-power. Are these not at the very core of both empowerment-feminism and modern mercantile culture? The… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  ray
20 hours ago

I think the story of the woman at the well has a lot more to it than most recognize.

Yes, the woman had lain with six different men, but the obvious implication was that there were five males guilty of adultery.

Samaritans, yeah, I guess. But the story does not dwell on the sin, bur rather on the redemption.

KarlHallmarx
KarlHallmarx
Reply to  rayj
1 day ago

The hypothetical Bible-less mod-prog transitioned in mid-sentence there. See also the 2002 Sam Power bestseller, “A Pronoun From Hell”

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  rayj
6 hours ago

Your observations are correct, but you are not taking into account that, while their misandrist animus is ALWAYS “there,” these XX’s are NEVER (well, with very rare exception) down for a “fight to the finish.”
We know what they’re like when “theirs is ‘the whip hand'”, and shame on us for empowering them. But (figuratively speaking!), a light tap in the eye socket followed by a love-tap on the sternum, and suddenly it’s “why are you always mean to me! That’s not MY whip…and if it is… YOU made me pick it up and use it!”
Have faith, mein bruder!

usNthem
usNthem
1 day ago

We can only hope the demon of secular progressivism is being excised. Maybe White anglos were already on their way down this road as the 20th century dawned, but Jews entering the elite surely turbocharged progressive politics. It’s pretty much been a mounting disaster ever since.

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  usNthem
1 day ago

 Z put it best as “but the authority for them simply disappeared”. In the U.S. at least, Progressivism relied on the structure of Christianity as a basis for their claims. As late as several years ago they’d try to turn ideological debates into religious debates, but the result was just hollowing out the religious claims to their cause. Now when they say “well Jesus wouldn’t want you to do that” the response is “don’t care”. And it’s not necessarily that they “don’t care” about Jesus, just that they don’t care what someone else says about him.

Fast-Turtle
Fast-Turtle
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 day ago

I have a new retort for nearby lefties, “I would be careful being an enemy of the state now.”

davidcito
davidcito
Reply to  usNthem
22 hours ago

It’s mostly women who set us on this path. J’s may have sped things up, but show me a man who votes left, and I’ll show you a wife who has his balls in a vice.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  davidcito
18 hours ago

Weird how progressive feminism (social gospel) didn’t really get rolling until after 1881. Of course, the Dispensational types blame the white women.

Last edited 18 hours ago by Alzaebo
DLS
DLS
1 day ago

When progressives took over puritanism but dropped Christianity, they removed the limiting principle that kept those who ruled in the name of God from complete tyranny. Jesus boiled down the entirety of God’s teachings into two rules: love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If you try to follow those rules, you can still rationalize a lot of bad behavior, but it has limits. Progressives are unbound by limits. This brings us to C. S. Lewis: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to… Read more »

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  DLS
1 day ago

Lewis was a serious writer who meant his words. The one everyone overlooks in that quote is “sincerely.”

So the quote has never been apposite. No political actor seeks the good. Rationalizations are not “sincere.” Means are ends. Rule is its own purpose.

The guards beat you to beat you. The witch is shaved to reveal the privy mark because the witchfinder is a pervert. Christians import Africans to end civilization.

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
1 day ago

The unspoken predicate of Progressive beliefs is that the Government, the proposed main instrument of collective “salvation”, is actually competent and can deliver against promises. The crisis of Progressivism isn’t so much the ridiculousness of the ideas – because people will obviously believe any BS – as it is the abject failure of Government to deliver better standards of living in recent years. It’s possible people are rejecting the instrument and working backwards towards questioning and rejecting the stupid ideas.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

All true. But what comes next? America First seems to indicate a form of nationalism is taking root, but in a proposition nation, what does that even mean?

Xman
Xman
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

“New Nationalism” indeed. He is channeling Theodore Roosevelt in many ways.

Last edited 1 day ago by Xman
Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

And he was the first great Progressive President. Nobody was more responsible for giving progressivism a national foothold than Teddy. Wilson and FDR were able to do what they did on his coattails.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

True, but, ultimately, Trump and his supporters will need to actually define what they mean by “America.”

They had no answer to that question in the H1B dust up. A country is its people, and the Trump team can’t (won’t) define what is an American.

Lavrov
Lavrov
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

I think Trump gave the answer – “Business of America is Business”. To Trump, everything is real estate. Greenland is a terrific property. Gaza needs to be evacuated so that it is built to its (real estate) potential.

John's Spam
John's Spam
Member
Reply to  Lavrov
1 day ago

Jay Alfred Nock in “Our Enemy The State” makes a case that the revolution and subsequent United States were driven by and founded on mercantilism, and the Bill of Rights was merely a sop to get the “Liberal” fringe to sign on.

Templar
Templar
Reply to  John's Spam
20 hours ago

Jay Alfred Nock in “Our Enemy The State” makes a case that the revolution and subsequent United States were driven by and founded on mercantilism, and the Bill of Rights was merely a sop to get the “Liberal” fringe to sign on.

Wasn’t that also the thesis of once-respected historian Charles Beard?

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

Spot on! Who Are We is the question before us. We, Americans, acknowledge and have put it front and center. Trump and the techno-optimists are mercantilists and machinists. They avoid the question but it is answered. For them the answer is: Business owners, financiers and employees. Don’t forget consumers. In the past 25 years the answer who are the consumers has been, eyeballs on screens, the people buying them as packaged data, retail stock market investors and imported consumers/GDP. The techno-optimists are being very clear. The consumer is the US government in the form of military technology. I think everyone… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

To do so seems almost a bridge too far at this point. Can we really imagine Trump declaring that Americans are people of geographically European and genetically Indo-European descent? Can we imagine the paroxysms of Leftists and non-whites? Right now, AINO is not ready to hear this truth. It probably never will be.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

I still stand by that if we’re going to hang onto “Indo-European” that it’s only a matter of time before another Vivek will be leading us into our “shared” future based on our “shared” history. Genetically Indo-European will absolutely include giving green cards to all the h1-B visa holders and massive apologies that it took so long.
I don’t think it’s that hard to come up with the genetics of what American means. But it will involve everyone facing what it means to be the children of English, Italians, Scots, etc.

Last edited 1 day ago by Piffle
Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Piffle
1 day ago

Note I said genetically Indo-European and hailing from geographical Europe. Vivek and the Subcoons do not meet the second qualifier.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

It’s not going to matter in the least if it ever becomes popular. There’s no magic soil anywhere. If Vivek the Bright and clear native Ohioian is genetically part of our “greater ethnos” being descended from a conquering Thor or whatever, he more than qualifies.
Also, what’s wrong with being an American or a Scot or an Italian? It’s a serious question. Is it just too boring?

Last edited 1 day ago by Piffle
Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Piffle
7 hours ago

Greater ethnos, my ass. Indians and Iranians simply do not qualify, and let’s get that straight. Whether Turks do is a stickier matter. But if they’re Muzz, they certainly wouldn’t.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
22 hours ago

This. I do not consider genetics to over rule culture. And wrt Indians (with a dot), the current science tells us India is not *one* people—genetically—but many people.

This simple fact provides an answer to why a country with an average IQ estimated at 82 can design their own modern jet air craft and build nukes.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

Maybe that works in the short run.”

It always works—in the short run. Nature abhors a vacuum. The question is, for me anyway, which do I want of the two choices. I’ve rejected the first and look forward to the second—whatever form that takes—even if it signals that the “end” is nigh.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

Vivek’s the id of the administration, blurting out the real meaning behind every good-seeming happening. He skulked back onto Twitter a few days ago to triumphally proclaim that Trump’s anti-DEI moves signify the end of narratives of racial grievance. (That’s an approximate quote; Twitter is unsearchable if you haven’t doxxed yourself to Elon.) In other words, you’re no longer allowed to complain, white boy. The great national meritocracy has arrived. The “facts on the ground”—e.g., 6% of new hires in the last five years—are now righteous. Complaints go in the waste basket labeled “woke right.” Here’s the new nationalism: Domestic… Read more »

george 1
george 1
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

The tech bros supporting Trump will most likely build a surveillance state that will dwarf even the one we have now. That can only benefit the managerial state. Couple that with digital currency and very little freedom will be left no matter that they call it “Nationalism.”

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  george 1
1 day ago

It is a legitimate concern. Ultimately, Trump and MAGA might be more likely to make mass arrests of us. It will depend on whether a full transition can be made to “who,” with us as “who.” That’s quite possible, too, but the suppression of white identity is schedule to be in the hands of a Pajeet as things stand.

george 1
george 1
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

That is certainly the truth.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

America is not, and never has been, a proposition nation, despite Trump’s speeches…America was created for the posterity of the anglo-europeans who fought the Revolution…But if the proposition folks win out, America is doomed….Compare it to China, which is 85% Han Chinese, with the strong cohesion of culture that brings about…

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 day ago

America was created for the posterity of the anglo-europeans who fought the Revolution”

Yet this intent was so easily subverted and defeated. Why?

It seems like many whites have a desire to transcend race and to imagine that everyone else feels the same.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

“It seems like many whites have a desire to transcend race and to imagine that everyone else feels the same.”

Now, yes—but in the recent past? As short as 100 years ago we had bloody race riots in Northern cities. 60 years ago we still had segregation. Something changed from the early American Founding Stock and today? What?

Spiteful Mutants and general prosperity (affluence) unknown in the historical record. In short, genetic decline caused by easy living. The (White) species was never evolved for those conditions.

Last edited 1 day ago by Compsci
Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

Turn-of-the-century immigrants and their children went all in on progressivism and overwhelmed the founding stock.

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  Vizzini
1 day ago

At the same time as the newly college-educated females of the founding stock were agitating for progressive policies, i. e. Prohibition and Woman Suffrage. The country then got both, good and hard, and the 17th Amendment directly electing each state’s US Senators, pretty much eliminated the authority of the state legislatures. I’d start the ball rolling to repeal the 17th before worrying about the 19th (Woman Suffrage, as it used to be called). Also, the country during the 1st quarter of the 20th c.allowed itself to become embroiled in the awful European WWI, with equally awful President Woodrow Wilson mucking… Read more »

george 1
george 1
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

Yes. A tragically mistaken concept.

fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

Why? Because those at the top love cheap labor and cheap votes and it’s easy to trick the masses that they are nobly “transcending race” instead of being royally screwed.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

It seems like many whites have a desire to transcend race and to imagine that everyone else feels the same.”

Many Europeans don’t want to face their parents. We have become disconnected from our greater family ties, including founding stock. It’s nicer to come up with parents that were better than ours.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 day ago

And 100% governed by Han Chinese men. That’s what makes the biggest difference. Even with our currently pitiful demographic situation, if the United States government was the sole property of white men, things would be markedly better.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  KGB
1 day ago

Even with our currently pitiful demographic situation, if the United States government was the sole property of white men, things would be markedly better.

Would they? It was a Congress full of white men that passed the CRA and Hart Celler.

Last edited 1 day ago by Jeffrey Zoar
fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 day ago

Correct. Those at the top, white or not, cannot and should not be trusted. EVER. They have to be held to account as good stewards for the people or they CAN and WILL screw everyone over.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  fakeemail
1 day ago

What is the proper mechanism for holding them to account? The guillotine?

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 day ago

The Puritan prong of the ruling duopoly is the most dangerous of the two and has been since Massachusetts was founded.

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 day ago

Cohesion, my azz. What kind of “culture” allows a dictator (Mao T’se Tung and a few others) to murder millions of their own people who disagreed with their political policies? There will probably also be a similar ugly reckoning should Mainland China gain a foothold on Taiwan.

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Dr. Dre
1 day ago

The thing about Chinese and Russians is that they’re not habitual inveterate scab pickers (*)… They move on and get on with life.

I supposed if they suffered from Copeium Addiction they might concern troll about the USA being unable to avoid another civil war. But probably they’re too busy just doing stuff and not kvetching about Other People.

*AKA Devotees of the (ahem) Culture of Critique. Supposedly the readers of this blog ought to be immune to this poison.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

America First is a steam valve to relieve the pressure and curtail the drive to white identity. It inadvertently may prove to be a vehicle. Let’s hope.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

Agree. The Left is correct. America First is whites pushing back. The identity politics/anti-white tide was finally getting whites to get off the couch but since whites still have a tough time thinking of themselves as a people, the colorblind CivNat America First was what they latched onto instead. But you can see the white identity politics bubbling up everywhere with America First. The H1B dust up showed that whites weren’t going to go along with being swamped by “legal” immigrants, especially Indians. So, yes, America First is a colorblind CivNat release valve to keep whites from joining the identity… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

comment image

Let off some steam…

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

But what comes next?”

If white Americans won’t accept that they are a group among competing groups, is it next-best good strategy to aim for colorblind meritocracy? Will that goal buy us time or further mislead us about the real issues of sovereignty?

If we refuse to have an identity, are there any other strategic options besides colorblind meritocracy?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 day ago

Colorblind meritocracy should be more than sufficient. There’s a reason whites created such an objectively great culture and why our science and technology was the envy of the world.

Just embrace freedom of association. We will rebuild our society, and others will build the crappy cultures they came from. For better or worse, we will also see if the prog tech bois can build something out of pajeets.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

Which is why meritocracy can never be allowed to become once again the “law of the land”. It a multi-racial society such cannot be allowed as it is proof of inherent and immutable differences among the races. In every country where mixed races exist, and one race outcompetes the other, violence/conflict is the norm. Where the superior race is in the minority, genocide is the eventual result. We (Whites) are quickly becoming a minority. A book for your perusal: “The Geometry of Genocide” by Bradley Campbell. Oddly enough, I suspect it will teach few people here anything they don’t already… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Compsci
Ketchup-stained Griller
Ketchup-stained Griller
Reply to  Compsci
1 day ago

The NFL is proof of inherent and immutable differences among the races. It’s right in Normies’ faces every day.

Last edited 1 day ago by Ketchup-stained Griller
The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Ketchup-stained Griller
1 day ago

The NFL is going to rig the three-peat.

After that is done they will beat us over the head with their poster boy as the GOAT. The fake TayTay marriage will happen shortly thereafter.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 day ago

Taylor can’t get married without wrecking her brand. To keep her current schtick going, she needs a bitter breakup with Travis. Her next album after that would be her biggest ever.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Ketchup-stained Griller
1 day ago

So are the Olympics. In spades. In fact, their proofs are so abundantly clear I’m surprised the Olympics haven’t been terminated.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

So are the Olympics. In spades.”

Never fear. I saw what you did there.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

“Colorblind meritocracy” reveals inherent racial differences in intelligence but denies the genetic basis of culture and smothers genuine ethic nationalism and communities. That is the world Steve Sailer advocates – a theoretical United Nations Hilton resort, instead of the current Patel motel. A thousand times NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  3g4me
1 day ago

I believe you misunderstand. The consequent flip side of freedom of association is freedom of dissociation. I tried to get through a Sailor piece once, but he embeds so many assumptions into his stuff, and I wonder if he even realizes it.

Whatever you mean by UN Hilton Resort, no I don’t think that’s what freedom of association means. It starts with “Get off my lawn!” and goes through “Get the hell out of my neighborhood before I shoot you” and, eventually, kicking out everyone who is not compatible with society. IYKWIMAITYD.

Mycale
Mycale
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

You can see this most clearly with big city governments now, where the government exists to protect deviants, bums, junkies, perverts, and criminals against normal people. The progressives see the dregs of society as their weapon against normalcy. And of course, this isn’t anything new – Bio-Leninism is a thing, anarcho-tyranny is a thing. Yet, it is interesting how clear and obvious the program has become in the past five years or so, particularly since COVID and the Floyd riots. When it came to Obamacare, the progressives were quite happy to make health insurance worse and more expensive for normal… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Mycale
Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

Big city governments are SOL. Many if not most are nearly insolvent, and federal sugar is very dicey now. Note that when Trump went to LA he demanded that fire recovery be tied to the end of mail-in balloting. It is likely bluster but that’s where things are going. As a matter of fact, that was my biggest white pill of late. More than ever people need to get out of the cities because as we have seen repeatedly they prefer collapse and ruin to prosperity, and that’s about to be dialed up to 11.

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Mycale
1 day ago

it’s also the fact that the big cities act as “safe houses” of sorts. Like the DDC (federal district court for the district of columbia) is basically a free for all. No democrat is going to get convicted of anything there and no republican is going to get acquitted of anything either. The judges are all basically dem operatives.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

I wish I could upvote these two comments more than once.

Christopher Zeeman
Christopher Zeeman
Reply to  DLS
1 day ago

downvoted you thrice so far.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Christopher Zeeman
1 day ago

“That there’s funny, I don’t care who y’are.”

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

That’s what this forum needs. There are so many posts that are funny, it would be nice to have up, down and laugh.

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Christopher Zeeman
1 day ago

Tsk tsk.

(and not for the downvotes)

Xman
Xman
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

Right. Modern progressivism is basically female narcissism. It’s not about accomplishing anything tangible — health care, pensions, housing, higher standard of living, etc. — it’s about the dopamine high of claiming moral one-upmanship (one-up-personship?) over the bigoted Evil White Racist Males.

So what if Los Angeles burns? It has it’s first Lesbian Fire Commissioner, and it’s first Woman of Color Mayor.

That’s all that matters.

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

Yes Xman. I would argue that the manifest incompetence gives normal people lots of reasons to question the “moral” propositions of Progressivism. If they could put out actual fires, people might cut them more slack. The moral order of our ancestors got traction in large measure because people could see the real-world benefits – societal cohesion, long-range planning etc.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

Stated explicitly by AOC: “It’s more important to be morally right than factually correct”

ray
ray
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 day ago

‘Let’s ignore the truth and do what me and my girlfriends want’.

Mr. House
Mr. House
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

or abortion in other words 😉

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Xman
1 day ago

there’s also the presumption that people elsewhere can pick up the slack. Sure you can sacrifice LA to the wolves but there’s always the state of California and the feds to pick up the tab.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

The still unspoken truth of Luigi-mania is that the left hates the Obamacare they hath wrought, but dares not admit it, either to themselves or to anyone else.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 day ago

It isn’t that rational. Think of Luigi as this era’s Charles Manson. Eventually Clouds realized that Manson’s ascendance posed a threat so he was marginalized and memoryholed as much as possible (“he’s a racist!” had started its run). The people, mostly women, who idolize Luigi are emotionally incontinent and are drawn to the bad boy.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

The women of the left are squirming in their seats for the pretty boy killer, but the men among them who aren’t mere Democrats (their smart fraction) have a saner view, shared by many of us who were already regarded as part of the “rising threat of domestic terrorism”: Events like this have been made necessary. The bad guys are framing the latter group as a subset of the former, always using the phrase “support Luigi,” to discredit the observation/attitude—and they seem to believe their own propaganda. In the first few weeks, feds went wild “you won’t do shit”-posting with… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Hemid
1 day ago

It’s pure projection. Most of the feds who went wild are full-fledged personality cultists. Dangerous types, those boys, but highly malleable.

Mr. House
Mr. House
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

Lots of people think Manson was an MKultra project

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

Yes. The most significant issue of our Age is: What do women want? I wish I were joking……….

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Captain Willard
1 day ago

I think its more “What do women think they want?” Riley Gaines is not a one-off. IME, there are a lot of Gen Z women who are seeing the light.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

Gen Z whites, being a plurality rather than a majority, and thus quite rightly feeling more threatened, are going to be very different from the larger white generations that preceded them. We see it already in the exit polls.

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  thezman
1 day ago

as someone who still shares a lot of liberal beliefs but is also cynical, I view politics as a mix between a video game and also supporting the sports team (i.e. being a red sox fan). I sort of have a paranoia about the TV/movie villain like Doug Neidermeyer or Greg Marmalard taking over and while I dislike wokeness, I dislike it mainly because I feel it will empower people I imagine to be the embodiment of those two characters.

Anything about healthcare, infrastructure and all that is just secondary.

fakeemail
fakeemail
1 day ago

OFF TOPIC: Zman or someone should do a deep dive of the LA fires. This was so clearly allowed to happen, just like the Maui fires. It was sabotage in the mask of incompetence in terms of the fire department cut budgets, the lesbians at the helm, the lack of water, the refusal for forest maintenance because of smelt-fish or some slug or whatever, etc. I don’t know whether DEW weapons were used, but I tend to think it’s not necessary when the rest of this purposeful neglect went on. The true story of this event lays bare how the… Read more »

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  fakeemail
1 day ago

I always wonder what the point of all this is. I naturally am conspiratorial. Like the 2020 rioting wasn’t organic and had to have some sort of purpose beyond “racial justice” or other such window dressing

fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
1 day ago

BLM riots were govt engineered, same as covid, same as vax, same as stolen election, and on and on.

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  fakeemail
1 day ago

so you think the us government intentionally released covid? It’s good to know I’m not the only schizo on here.

As soon as the media went from “eh, nothing to worry about” to “SHUT IT DOWN” I felt that there was someone from on high giving commands. Something felt off.

RealityRules
RealityRules
1 day ago

Interesting. I don’t think we are finished with progressivism. I think there is another strain that infects the techno-optimists. They are self-described progressives. Their entire project is defined by progress. Perhaps we are witnessing the death of social progressivism. Even then, there are mass numbers of those faithful hanging around. In a world where technical progressivism has seized the reins, what happens to them when they have no cognitive ability to take a place in a technical progressive world? Can you banish social progressivism? Now, I have an answer to this. This is where mass deportation enters. Most of the… Read more »

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  RealityRules
1 day ago

The techno-optimists appear to be staking everything on so-called AI.

This is why they got Trump re-installed.

Trump will let them build Skynet on their terms.

They’re already talking about using it to cook up more mRNA brews.

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 day ago

We are going to have to man up and take a seat at the table with them. White America is going to have to prove we are a more stable partner than black females and vengeful black urban machine hacks. As long as mRNA stuff is voluntary then fine. What we need to do is be a part of building skynet. Someone is going to control the tools of tyranny. If we master them and build them it at least is us who will be in control. You don’t want it to be Soros Jr. telling blacks how to wield… Read more »

DLS
DLS
1 day ago

“…they could just as easily claim to be on the side of angles.” Geometrists?

mmack
mmack
Reply to  DLS
1 day ago

Don’t be obtuse.

stranger in a strange land
stranger in a strange land
Reply to  mmack
1 day ago

I think DLS is right.

ray
ray
Reply to  stranger in a strange land
1 day ago

Buncha rhomboids.

stranger in a strange land
stranger in a strange land
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

acute reply

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  mmack
1 day ago

He’s got an acute case of obtuseness.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
1 day ago

Z’s schema is sound, but needs a bit of elaboration. Specifically, what caused Leftists–or progressives–to abandon reason, and what was the philosophical/theoretical system that replaced it? The simple answer seems to be that the world wars were the final salvoes that demolished reason’s supremacy, although prefigurations of this phenomenon date to Nietzsche. Hence, if Western society is based on reason, and the result was the mass slaughter of WWI and WWII, of what use is reason? This question, in turn, led to abhorrence of Western colonialism/imperialism, which triggered decolonization and postcolonialism as an intellectual field of a sort. But there… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

I know this isn’t your assertion, but the sequencing did not matter. Any philosophy that is anti-rational and anti-civilizational, to the degree those two can be disentangled, will be anti-white. Sure, some East Asians can be reasonable and build great things but they are outliers. Rationality and civilization are white norms. And because of the Great Replacement, we live in the ruins.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

I don’t think it’s that involved. I know you hate having everything reduced to Marx, but grab Ockham’s Razor. He took an irrational, or even anti-rational ideology and dressed it up in emotional terms. Made it an easy sell to midwits. Why are college campuses so full of progs? They are full of midwits.

And, of course, women are like a moth to flame for ideologies that emphasize their primary attribute — emotionalism.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

Without the horde eager to grasp onto what he was pushing, Marx is just another fringe kook scribbler. The problem is more with the horde than with him.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
20 hours ago

Fair. Though paraphrasing Him, “The hordes will always be with us.”

How do we deal with the combination of poisonous ideas and ignorant hordes?

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Steve
1 day ago

Compared to pomo, Marxism is quite rational. It was a fairly logical, albeit misbegotten response to the misery occasioned by the early Industrial Revolution. The emotional trappings were to sell copies of The Communist Manifesto.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

Postmodernism is literary. That’s the basis on which it’s rejected by what’s come to be called “wokeness.”

The lesson taken from Derrida’s “White Mythology”—a lesson found nowhere in it, but its title does bait it—is: Literariness is whiteness. To produce or even acknowledge meaning in philosophical texts—in the metaphorical-speech tradition of Europe—is only to perpetuate whiteness. (Knowing what Derrida actually said is whiteness, too.)

The academy adopted this attitude to accommodate dumb students—to make room for diversity as it arrived—not because they believed it. But now they do believe it, because they’re dumb.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Hemid
1 day ago

The alleged absence of meaning in speech acts–including the written word–is simply another facet of the postmodern argument that signs bear no positive corellation to the signified. In other words, we are all occulted by language. Not only that, but cultural groups–de facto, races and ethnicities–are walled off from one another by their respective discursive structures. When somebody–Derrida or whoever–claims asserting meaning in the text is an act of whiteness, ultimately he is repudiating reason. Writing, after all–and granting certain experimental, avant-garde counterexamples–is an act of reason. And civilization, has needs built upon reason, is therefore white and must be… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

You helped lead me to the distinction light with the explanation that PoMo is pure nihilism. Anti-whiteness is at war with civilization (and winning) and the resultant nihilism makes is a key component of PoMo

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 day ago

Reason got its marching orders with the opening bars of the overture to Der Freischütz. Lou Salome’s draft horse just wrote the epitaph.

Tars Tarkas
Member
1 day ago

Progressivism is far from dead. It’s not even sick, let alone dead. The forces of progressivism need to be annihilated and that can only be accomplished by the destruction of the engine of progressivism.

3g4me
3g4me
1 day ago

Z’s post today: tl;dr: Virtue, untrammeled, becomes vice. As two great Christian thinkers already explained long ago: ““The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues. When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  3g4me
22 hours ago

Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent! Adam Smith 1759.

TomA
TomA
1 day ago

Political labeling is downstream from evolutionary reality. Some of us still regard root productivity as the only moral good that matters (because the alternative leads to extinction). However, sustained and improving productivity always leads to affluent excess and then a cohort of the population soon learns that free-riding works. As the parasites grow in number, their grift can only be propagated through political cons that succeed in fooling the masses. Any con will do if it works to achieve that goal.

Johnny Ducati
Johnny Ducati
Member
1 day ago

My 1966 Webster’s dictionary is the newest one I own that still has the old cultural and political definitions of the word “liberal”. I hate that progs and perverts were allowed to pollute and twist our language to use against us.
They need to be excised from society permanently

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

The question is what replaces progressivism. People need to believe in something.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

The current hysteria surrounding so-called AI strikes me as the latest attempt to fill the religious and spiritual void in modern society.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

When I look around, I see progressives in retreat but I don’t see them giving up on their incoherent “ideology” and looking for a replacement. More like hunkering down in their echo chambers. Increased polarization.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 day ago

That’s my point. To defeat them, we have to offer an alternative. Trump’s America First is a (sort of) nationalism, but until you can define America or Americans, you don’t have a tangible replacement.

A Z often notes, you have to have a positive identity. Just being against progressivism isn’t enough. You have to be for something.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

Yes. It is the same as ever: who/whom. Z frequently writes, correctly, that who decides is far more important that what is decided. This is the current trajectory, too, thank God.

ray
ray
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 day ago

Father, Son, Scripture. Real MAGA.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  ray
1 day ago

Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

ray
ray
Reply to  Piffle
22 hours ago

Works for me.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
1 day ago

I detect an attempt to return to progressivism’s earlier focus on wealth disparity. Demonization of the Tech Bros as oligarchs, and MAGA as their political weapon, is being floated. Inflation has been noticed. You get the picture. Their problem is it will not work and will fail spectacularly. People no longer have long memories but even a goldfish recalls the progressive love affair with billionaires of less than a year ago. Heck, Biden hung Medals of Freedom around the necks of a couple of them mid-month. It may be drawing to a close but many progressive organizations are the personal… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

Should Leftists decide to wage war against capitalism, they’ll be attacking their own kind. Coca Cola, after all, is to the Left of Cornell, and this is the rule rather than the exception in post-Cold War capitalism.

Tars Tarkas
Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 day ago

While I am not one to fret about ‘wealth disparity,’ it’s hard not to notice the wealthy and the upper class elites have mostly gotten wealthy bilking the system in some way, not by inventing new things that make our lives better. Hierarchy is natural and nothing to fight, but now we have a system that rewards corruption and dishonesty.

Yman
Yman
1 day ago

progressivism only die when Chinese eradicate Jews and Christianity

My Comment
My Comment
1 day ago

Only thing we can be sure of is hysteria will always be a key component of the left because many women thrive on hysteria. Most people are hysteried out. Not leftist women. The minute sane people let down their guard we will get a new hysteria that impacts society at large

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
1 day ago

It may be the death of Progressivism as the Imperial Faith. That only means the rollbacks of intersectional flags in military, diplomacy and business. The demon always seeks new hosts, but its declining power has also likely been a result of demographic changes that have been reducing the number of viable vessels for some time now. In the end it will probably evolve to fit a new landscape of peoples and cultures. The current period is probably a kind of “thaw” or “передышка” to borrow from the Cold War terminology. A time to catch a breath from all those religious… Read more »

Tom K
Tom K
1 day ago

OT:

Looks like a Black Swan has just landed in the form of AI out of China called DeepSix. Ruh-roh for Silicon valley if it’s true.

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Tom K
1 day ago

Those interested in following this minus triumphalist Chinese hype or American sour grapes copeium should have a look at the X feeds of Marc Andreessen and Steve Hsu for starters. Then some of the folk they interact with.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Tom K
17 hours ago

Financial war waged by rogue software has arrived, ahead of AI-directed slaughterbot drones.

Arthur Metcalf
Arthur Metcalf
1 day ago

Trump on the “Stargate” endgame: “I think it’s going to be something that’s very special. It will lead to something that could be the biggest of all.”

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Arthur Metcalf
1 day ago

It could! I’d be happy to rebuild a civilization of purebloods. Could there be a greater opportunity?

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Arthur Metcalf
1 day ago

They picked, “Stargate,” for the project name because, “Skynet,” would have given the game away!

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 day ago

Late Stage America is a bit cargo cult. If you give a desired outcome the right-sounding futuristic name it will automatically manifest itself — provided that gazillions of money printer brrrr gets directed to the Right People.

Arthur Metcalf
Arthur Metcalf
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
23 hours ago

I’m picturing the Antichrist.

David Davenport
David Davenport
22 hours ago

“Ideology is, after all, a set of moral claims backed by the authority of reason. The two great industrial wars in Europe were about how we ought to organize ourselves.”

That’s too broad and sweeping, Zman.

Neither Germany nor France nor Britain nor Germany sought grand cultural or poltical changes during WWI, the war of 1914-1918.

“… how we ought to organize ourselves…” Who is this “we,” Mr. Zman?
Big changes may have resulted  from WWI, But not because the elites in those countries began the war seeking big cultural or political changes.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  David Davenport
20 hours ago

Amen, bro. When they were surrounded by redskins, and the Lone Ranger asked , “How we were going to get out of this, Tonto?”

Tonto said, “Who’s this “we” shit, Kemosabe?”

What “we” need to focus on is no bigger of a “we” than we absolutely need. Most of “we” don’t want what “we” do.

KarlHallmarx
KarlHallmarx
1 day ago

“A collection of bourgeois fads that have ripped through the West” is good enough for me if I ever have to explain liberalism. This definition rolls in the latest wrinkles and firmware updates on the creed such as Nietzschean cyberspace disembodiment (previously limited to Dungeons-and-Dragons settings, or represented by ye olde Matrix films of the Wachowski non-bros– “Nerd Lib” as Steve Sailer dubbed it)

kerdasi amaq
kerdasi amaq
1 day ago

What are the odds that the progressive liberals/communists will be stalking the land like undead zombies from 2026 onwards in the run-up to the 2028 presidential election?

TempoNick
TempoNick
1 day ago

Non-Europeans love to point fingers and talk about the decline of Christianity in Europe, but I don’t buy it. To me, Christianity is in many respects institutional over there, like city council or the court system. People don’t need to attend every city council meeting or trial for the institution to remain omnipresent and relevant. I see churches packed on the holidays. The fact that people have better things to do the other 40 weeks of the year doesn’t bother me at all. Besides, doesn’t the bible say that you weren’t supposed to judge other people in the manner of… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  TempoNick
1 day ago

In the same sense that even the west’s atheists are Christians, Europe is still very Christian. But it’s become the dyke archbishop flavor of Christianity. Indeed the Satan Pope approves of every EU policy so reliably that one can wonder if they run it by him first.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 day ago

The Pope does not approve of every EU policy.

Piffle
Piffle
Reply to  TempoNick
1 day ago

Christianity has been in decline in Europe since the late 19th century.

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Piffle
1 day ago

Decline? Norwegian Parrot more like. And no shortage of Cleeses.

Ozornik
Ozornik
1 day ago

As was said – ‘there is nothing new under the sun’. Need yet another proof? – <<The female woman is one of the greatest institooshuns of which this land can boste.>> that was written century and a half ago!

Last edited 1 day ago by Ozornik
The Greek
The Greek
1 hour ago

The rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated

trackback
11 hours ago

[…] ZMan rings the Passing Bell. […]

heymrguda
heymrguda
1 day ago

Yes, things have improved so much since The Catholic Church has gained cultural ascendancy since WWII.