No one knows when slavery started, but it seems to have been a part of human civilization from the start. There is evidence of slavery in the earliest civilizations along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Mesopotamia, the Nile in Egypt, the Indus Valley in India, and China’s Yangtze River Valley. This suggests slavery was integral to the establishment of large-scale settlements.
Slavery was the norm in the world until European Protestants decided it was immoral and began to ban it. Until the Protestant nations of Europe rose to power, slavery was tolerated by Christians. The Catholic Church opposed the treatment of African slaves in the New World but was not opposed to slavery. It was the Protestants who went the next step and demanded the end of slavery.
Of course, slavery was not what modern people imagine. Slaves often had rights and there were rules for how slaves must be treated. The very first law codes were created to deal with the treatment of slaves. This makes sense since if there are a lot of slaves, there is the risk of a slave revolt, so keeping the slave classes happy was always going to be a primary consideration for society.
This was true in the American South. Contrary to the nonsense version of history taught in schools and popularized through movies and television, the African slaves in North America were treated well. They were valuable property, one of the most lucrative investments in the New World, so slave owners took care of them. A happy slave was a productive and profitable slave.
In fact, slaves were much more productive than the freemen. Contrary to the cartoon version of history, the plantation owners cared more about their slaves than the white workers on the plantation. One reason for that is slavery as a form of labor was much more productive than paid labor. The slave owner was more likely to have a hired man whipped than to whip one of his slaves.
That is the show this week. It is about the economic reality of slavery in the South leading up to the Civil War. The source for this information is an old book titled, Time on the Cross: The Economics of American Negro Slavery by the economists Robert Fogel and Stanley L. Engerman. It is a great work of revisionist history, a skill that we will need to hone, given that our official history is mostly nonsense.
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This Week’s Show
Contents
- Intro
- Cartoon Version of Slavery
- Time On The Cross
- Ten Points About Slavery
- Final Thoughts
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J. Burden and George Bagby did some excellent shows on the reality of slavery. Apparently the vast majority was not plantation slavery, but small farms. It also gets in to the health and diet aspects. The Africans in America working as slaves had far higher protein intake and far better health than European serfs and factory workers. Two generations forfeited our entire inheritance through guilt over some evil that by and large never was. Even the Klan rose up in response to horrific and violent abuse during Reconstruction. It rose up in response to the Waukesha’s Michael Browns and Karmelo… Read more »
“…generations forfeited our entire inheritance through guilt over some evil that by and large never was.”
Oh, really? Please, tell me more…do you have any other examples, perhaps?
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from the enemy it is that truth is whatever you want to define it to be. I hold myself to the standard of the enemy when dealing with the enemy. There was no slavery of blacks in America. The blacks flew over here in their flying saucers from Wakanda after they got bored of building pyramids in Egypt etc. Conflict between blacks and whites on the continent began when whites started to arrive escaping from the black despot kings James and Charles.
There’s only one flaw with that history–Wakanda wasn’t established until a couple hundred years after the Nuggras built the last pyramid in Egypt. Otherwise, spot on.
Wrong, retard. The pyramids were built in the form of Wakandan spaceships, so they PRECEDED the pyramids.
don’t feel constrained to observe the white oppressor colonizer misogynist ‘linear’ thinking!
Good point. Rationality and reason are White Supremacy.
So is civilization, which is why it must be destroyed.
I liken it to what I imagine my husky would tell everyone if she could talk: “No, massa never fed me or gave me expensive toys and treats or spent every fucking morning at the dog park talking to a bunch of boring old people just so I could frolic and get humped by all the boy dogs.”
Hope she’s not one of those Doberman-burners.
“If there’s one thing I’ve learned from the enemy it is that truth is whatever you want to define it to be.”
And I’ve learned from my Savior that the truth is what it is, regardless of what I might want it to be…
If you throw Sex-Slavery into the recipe, a few hours ago, Virginia Giuffre was ritually suicided.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cql67qk0dd3o
Just like Jeffrey Epstein.
Meanwhile, Robert Maxwell’s daughter, Ghislaine, is still stealing oxygen from the atmosphere.
That would be Ian Robert Maxwell, aka, “Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch”.
Don’t forget the carpet baggers and race traitors eager to exploit Southern Whites under the reconstruction regime.
Nobody had a more nuanced and accurate understanding of slavery than Jefferson. He understood that slavery was a violation of the rights of Africans, and that it had a negative effect on whites as well. Yet he also understood that Negroes were intellectually inferior to whites and that the races could never successfully mix when emancipation occurred. Consequently he advocated the deportation of Negroes once freed. Jefferson also understood the paternalistic aspects of Southern slavery, and pointed out in Notes on the State of Virginia that it was much more benign than Roman slavery. The aspect of the slavery question… Read more »
From 250,000 people to 45 million is quite a genocide. I have heard that one of the factors for the failure of the American Colonization Society was the sheer numbers of blacks that needed to get to Liberia. It was classic America. You can spend time and energy solving a civilizational problem and lay the groundwork for an enternal paradise on a geographically perfect continent. Or you can spend your time making a lot of money as fast as you can and kick the can down the road fat and happy and leave a far bigger and difficult to solve… Read more »
Two problems with “back to Liberia: 1) It cost money and the ex-slave problem was in the South, so screw them, and 2) Liberia was allowed to govern themselves. It should have been colonized (governed) by American Whites for a century or more as the former slaves were shipped back. Of course, that takes money too.
Merchant rule in the West must end for all time. Merchants along with farmers comprise the two indispensable occupations necessary for settled civilization, but the mentality that makes a good merchant makes an utterly terrible architect and manager of civilization. It’s why Russia is kicking the tranny ass of the GAE. Their merchants have been unleashed to do merchant things (10% flat tax, anyone?) and grow stinking rich, but they are not allowed to rule. ‘Their’ merchants are not the architects and managers of the Russian civilizational project. Reformist merchants led by Pres. Trump act to preserve the economic system… Read more »
This is incredibly well stated.
Whites didn’t bring the KneeGr0wz to the New World.
j00Z BROUGHT THE KNEEGR0WZ TO THE NEW WORLD.
Whites were largely just bystanders to The Great Endarkening.
It was entirely the work of the j00z.
The j00z controlled the entirety of the Trans-Atlantic chattel slave trade industry.
Well there’s at least one JIDF agent, chez Z, doesn’t want the goyim to learn who ackshually controlled the Trans-Atlantic Chattel Slave Trade.
And it was a phenomenally profitable Slave Trade for The Tribe; possibly [likely?] the single moast profitable trade The Tribe ever entered into.
[Which, in turn, could serve as a means by which to understand why they decided to assassinate Lincoln.]
“Lincoln freed the slaves!” Now we’re all slaves to global capital, thanks a lot asshole.
On another note it’s funny when you learn that Irish immigrants in the new world were often used for dangerous work as they were not worth as much as a good african slave.
I think we should have let them split. We might be a lot better off today. They would be stuck with the poison from all the angry blacks.
When I was in college, some of the blacks would give me hell about how my great-great-grandpa was an awful slaveowner. I would let them know that my Irish ancestors dug out the canals in New Orleans and died by the score from the horrible diseases and no one cared because new Irishmen arrived off the boat daily. The black slaves, on the other hand, were valuable because they could generate revenue and could be bought and sold and were well-treated. They would always walk away grumbling to themselves. I also reminded them that because I’m part Irish/part Coonass/part German… Read more »
If you go back far enough, like typically before the IR, most all of us (90%) can trace our ancestors to those who worked the land. Most did not own such land, but were tied to it through birth in a noble’s principality. You could not leave the land except through permission. You worked the land, turned over a portion (typically 30%) of food produced each year, and for “vacation” you owed the nobleman several weeks of duty/labor on his projects! This does not include the regular wars that noblemen were fond of fighting every period of years, nor the… Read more »
My first semester in grad school I was at a student/faculty mixer and got into a discussion with, among other luminaries, the uni’s reigning god of “African-American” history on the subject of slavery. Both blithely and naively, I related to him that Russian serfs had it worse than negro slaves in the American South. I thought his wooly head was going to explode. And I was fortunate not to get kicked out of the program.
Exactly…and when the Irish died, they were dumped in a mass grave, and replaced by more cheap Irish…
The enemy deny this ever happened you know. When I used to try to engage in rational discussion with enemy partisans I’d bring up Irish slaves in Jamaica and the obvious consequences and measurable effects in the population to this day. They just flatly deny it ever happened. I do the same now when dealing with them. There’s nothing to discuss and no common ground for establishing some harmonious equilibrium.
Just like no one and I mean no one talks about all of the white Christian slaves kept by the Barbary pirates, with much of it sexual slavery of women.
I’m glad we cleaned out that nest of vipers once and for all.
”Exactly…and when the Irish died, they were dumped in a mass grave, and replaced by more cheap Irish…”
And yet, where are the “Irish” now? Go to any large Eastern city and they have risen to positions of great wealth and prosperity—they ain’t tossed into a communal grave anymore!
And how did our Black population do in the same time period (after emancipation)? Well, not so good.
Food for thought.
Let them eat potatoes.
Sorry, had to
I dunno. Eat the potato now, or ferment it and drink it later?
“Our history” That is the crux of why this thing failed. Any old interloper could come in and claim to be one of us. Of course, those two guys feel zero guilt and zero shame over America’s past. They were posing as us in order to speak for us. It is a very old trick. A trick that for thousands of years our best were wise to. They practiced exclusion so that interlopers could not plant themselves in our midst, masquerade as us and plant lies and sophisticated guilt and shame and deconstructive narratives within our story. Our history my… Read more »
“It is a very old trick.” Literally as old as the story of Adam and Eve.
The original transgression against the god was our people’s far superior knowledge and prowess.
Thus, the story of the Trees. On the one hand, our sciences which they could not understand, whose greatness brought the jealous wrath of the gods. On the other, immortality through fertility, through the womb. Each man will die, but the Tribe lives forever. Thus, the Adam must take the Aryan Eve.
Whiteness was the Original Sin. Today, we are told that we all come from black Africans.
‘The original transgression against the god was our people’s far superior knowledge and prowess’
No, it was not.
I have difficulty parsing the degree to which drugs, demons, and ivory tower narcissism have each scrambled your reality matrix, but it is scrambled to the point where you should get professional help, Alzaebo.
It takes a very small, very weak psyche to believe what you believe.
The story of the tree is a metaphor for moral relativism before humanity had invented the concept.
Always fun to see how people rationalize that story. Particularly since it’s obviously a morality play about Man kicking God off the throne, appropriating to himself the power to define Law. 😉
It doesn’t really matter what the economics of slavery were in the 18th and 19th centuries. It is no different than what is going on today. A small group of wealthy elite do what is in their economic interest, regardless of what the consequences to the population as a whole will be. The same type of man who imports foreign slaves totally incompatible with the already existing population will import foreign wage serfs like Mexicans or ship his production equipment to a foreign land and fire all his workers to save a few bucks. This is why controlling the wealthy… Read more »
Greed is utterly pernicious. And unfortunately, it has always been one of America’s chief hallmarks.
I say this as a descendent of the first Americans, by blood English and German, who were American before Americans got their own country, and whose grandsons fought in our Revolution: this project is a failure and it is time to move on to something else, having learned from a civilizational post-mortem. I’m pretty flexible about whatever replaces it because white people can make almost anything work, as long as we avoid the worst mistakes of the our ancestors: no Africans, no Muslims, and absolutely no Jews.
May I humbly suggest no pajeets?
Same and agree. Whites cannot survive democracy. Infiltration has brought genocide by racial replacement.
We Slavs are still waiting for our reparations from the various Ottoman and Arab slave trades all throughout the Middle Ages.
During Ivan Groznyi’s disastrous reign, the Krim Tatars practically emptied southern and eastern Russia of peasants via slave raids.
We Vikings chose to demand tribute and plunder rather than reparations.
There is an alternative view that the word “Slav” has nothing to do with us being slaves. It is thought by some that the word “slav” was derived from various words related to “slavi” which means praise or worship of God.
And finely shredded cabbage, amirite? Cole Slav?
Of course ‘Slav’ doesn’t derive from ‘slave’, it can’t because ‘slave’ derives from ‘Slav’.
Still happening to this day. Ukrainian and other Slavic girls are kidnapped or lured to Israel where they remain slaves for the duration of their short lives, before they permanently vanish.
Collective/group guilt is a Jewish specialty. It obviously is biting them on the ass now, but for the longest time facilitation of those emotions along with control of media and popular culture diverted attention from the Jews’ key role in American slavery. That is going away fast, and by conflating in the American mind the relatively benign slavery found here with that in, say, Cuba, the Tribe has set itself up for even bigger trouble in the years to come. Closely related to the collective/group guilt propaganda is the myth that whites in the Antebellum American South were impoverished trash… Read more »
… has brought the entire race to the point of extinction.
the left has completely obliterated the history of lynchings by convincing us that it was a rachial thing. it was actually a criminal thing. more whites were lynched than blacks. if you raped or murdered someone, the outraged community would often take things into their own hands. whether you were black or white, .there were very few prisons in those times in many areas. prisons cost a lot of money that many communities didn’t have . so flogging, Exile , or hanging were all that was available .
Recent news headlines should have served to make the light bulb go on in at least a few folks’ heads about the necessary place lynching had in society
I love how the Left has canonized Emmitt Till, who was supposedly killed for whistling at a white woman. Turns out his father was hung in Italy during WWII for raping and killing an Italian woman. It’s hard to overcome your genetic heritage.
“I love how the Left has canonized Emmitt Till, “
Iddn’t that weird. When, in reality, they carmelized Emmett Till?
And to think my daughter thinks I have a dark sense of humor…
My son just calls it, “extra crispy”…
We should bring back that particular punishment for our dusky confreres.
One key problem with this economic argument is that it’s only economically more efficient when you don’t count the costs because society at large pays the cost while you get all the benefits. This is absolutely the case in the modern version of slavery, these temporary workers. The farmer (employer) gets all the benefits of low wage highly compliant workers while the community gets a bunch of brown people ruing the lives of the community and clogging the schools and healthcare system entirely for free. The agribusinesses do not pay any of these costs. They don’t experience the joys of… Read more »
Unfortunately for this interpretation, the browns clogging up the works would be the case whether or not the farmers hired them. The farmers just happen to (or arrange their lives such that they) recoup at least a part of those taxes they pay.
I get the envy. Almost universal in the human condition. Doesn’t make it any less sinful.
Big business including big ag is in on the importation. They wouldn’t be here if they weren’t hired. They also wouldn’t be here if big business including big ag were not facilitating it. What did we do before we had this crap? Teenagers, migrants (internal) and other temporary workers. There are propaganda videos on youtube from the 50s and 60s of teenagers and college students working on farms during the harvest. What about all the automation? They should not need nearly as many people. What envy? You think I envy any of these people? We need the laws to be… Read more »
“Big business including big ag is in on the importation. They wouldn’t be here if they weren’t hired. They also wouldn’t be here if big business including big ag were not facilitating it.”
Doubtful. Are you arguing that the Dims, the party leading the charge to bring them in/back are beholden to Big Business? I guess it’s plausible now, but was it a couple decades ago when they were championing same? A decade before that when they pretended not to, but enacted legislation to make it so? ’65, with Hart-Cellar?
What would be required for the narrative to break down?
The incontrovertible fact is that the transatlantic slave trade was the best thing to ever happen to the negro race. This has never been refuted. It cannot be refuted. Probably the penultimate examples of “no good deed goes unpunished” are the two entities which did the most in world history to end slavery, the British empire and its American offshoot, now bearing primary blame for its existence. Other than Robert DeNiro, I’m unaware of any white men who are willing to pay to copulate with negresses when there are alternatives, so I am skeptical of the stories of such from… Read more »
According to the FBI, there are years where not a single White on black SA is reported. The other years are single or low double digit reports. The other way around is never less than 10s of thousands.
I’m guessing we no longer have access to those crime stats. And eventually, just like the JFK files, they’ll be redacted, scrubbed or simply “lost.”
There must have been a lot of such couplings going on if the present admixture of White DNA in the American Black is estimated at 25%. We’d need to explain such before assuming your hypothesis.
I think that percentage is closer to 15%, but that still means that shenanigans took place.
The NIH says 13%. Landmark Study Looks at Genetics of Africans, African Americans | National Institutes of Health (NIH). Bearing in mind how fake and gay any stats issued from that institution are known to be, and the disparity between yours and Compsci’s numbers, I am going to wait for better data. Also, a quick Bing search did not readily present a number. Had to go to page 3 for that one.
The techies and their bots disapprove of genetics mightily.
Sigh…. Your data is a simple NIH “news” excerpt from 2009. It states it’s a survey of around 2500 respondents (data points). Here is perhaps your “better” data. “23 and me” says Black DNA has a White admixture of 24%. “23 and me” data was used by Bryc 2014 for a published research paper see: Bryc et al., 2014, “The Genetic Ancestry of African Americans, Latinos, and European Americans across the United States,” published in the American Journal of Human Genetics. Bryc has the better numbers (150k) and confirmatory research. You might not have seen/heard of this study because such… Read more »
I would put even less faith in 23 and me than I would in NIH. In clown world, all official stats, especially from such pozzed institutions, are presumed BS.
Keep doubling down. Reread. You’re still wrong. The data was from “23 and me”. The analysis from independent researchers using/mining that data. Such is done frequently by researchers into IQ and such. Government collections are often serendipitously used for other purposes years after collection. There is no reason to suspect anything wrong with the data. Whether you believe “23 and me’s” reports to purchasers as to their racial/ethnic heritage is beside the point. The data base seems sound. The secondary analysis indicating 25% admixture is from other than “22 and me” personnel. If you’ve other information, then cite it. Here’s… Read more »
23 and me has been known to lie, to claim everyone is ‘x’% African, etc. Also bear in mind that the unfortunate increase in the number of mulattoes (half and half) skews the percentages. Some blacks, like Valerie Jarrett, are heavily White (and thus then hate genuine Whites all the more). Others, like Jodie Turner-Smith, not so much. And finally, always ask yourself just how much sh*t mixed into ice cream that you will accept.
Again, read the comment. The data set is not proven to be incorrect. “23 and me” constructs the individual’s entire genome, then attempts to interpret it. If their interpretation is suspect, so be it. But you are implying their genome typing is incorrect. There is no evidence for this and every reason to believe otherwise. Modern sophisticated systems can put together your genomic map for a few dollars these days. The percentage of admixture is of course an average figure across 150k individuals. To read it otherwise is silly. I suspect we have Blacks with higher admixture being more civilized… Read more »
I thought Valerie Jarrett was part Persian?
Born in Iran to mixed-race black parents.
Or, Compsci, you could just crank up your trusty BS detector and look around you. Do you really think our lovely and intelligent African-Americans are actually one-quarter white? 23andMe, my ass.
Pay attention, learn some genetics. Yep, they are one quarter White if you look at DNA—not behavior. That percentage is an “average”, I’m certain it varies among our native Black population. We don’t particularly know just which genes, or rather all that these genes do, that they’ve inherited, but we can estimate the number/percentage. European Whites are said to have approx 2% Neanderthal genes—but not all Whites have the same Neanderthal genes. It is estimated that perhaps 20-30% of the Neanderthal’s gene pool survives across the modern human (non-African) population around the world. Hell, we share 98% of our genome… Read more »
As Steve notes, you also must take into consideration selection bias – those blacks with the money and interest to use 23 and Me are those with greater White admixture. There are plenty of blacks with minimal White admixture. And lots of experience has taught that those with more – while just a bit more clever and capable – are also a lot more envious and resentful. We can also see what an average of 20% black admixture does to Puerto ricans.
“As Steve notes, you also must take into consideration selection bias”
To be fair, he did. Towards the end of that post. That was what I was getting at. That by the time people got to the disclaimers, they would likely have already reached a conclusion.
If anything, I think we under-appreciate environment and other effects we don’t even pretend to understand, let alone describe. If there is such a thing as a spirit/soul/mind, it transcends pure materialism, and thus, genetics.
Given your professions of Christianity, you know the soul exists. There is no subjunctive.
It all depends upon the parameters of the subset. If children of a mudshark and a buck are counted as “African-American,” perhaps that 25% number is within the realm of possibility. If not, no way in hell. And, AFAIC, halfbreeds are neither fish nor foul and should not be counted as such.
The typical negro one runs into whilst strolling through the hood is not one-quarter white. He does not possess the white genetic material equivalent to having one white grandparent. You can easily enough determine that just by looking at him–if you really must.
Pro-tip: Make sure the self-selection bias thing is the first thing you mention, or most people will gloss right over it. 😉
That’s their problem as much as mine. Pro tip: read and reread, then comment—especially if you disagree.
Here’s another pro tip: if you dispute citations which support the premise of the argument you disagree with, then provide some of your own in rebuttal. Otherwise, we don’t engage in dispute, simply naysaying and yelling over each other.
Oddly enough, if you had followed your own advice, you would have realized I was agreeing with you.
Though you may or may not realize it, I usually do agree with you. Laconism is a double-edged sword…
Oops. That was supposed to be a reply to you, @CSci.
One 1/2 breed can get his 1/2 white genes into a number of black women or men. These offspring also spread white genes into the black population.
While miscegenation did exist, it was probably more in the lower classes and far less widespread than it is propagandized about today. Most slave owners had a lot of choices. Like today, you’re going into the bottom of the barrel.
Evolution by natural selection works very quickly (observable phenotype change) over several generations when the fitness advantage is large. A half-African/half-European slave would be vastly more likely to have superior (1) pattern recognition capability and (2) impulse control/emotional self control/deferred gratification. Thus they were VASTLY more likely to successfully perpetuate their genes. Baseline Africans (without admixture) have a racial mean IQ of 72. That means that half are dumber. A half-white who manifested an 85 IQ (the population mean of Americanized Africans, descendants of slaves) had a huge advantage over the bulk of his competitors. Rinse and repeat over several… Read more »
The same principle applies to animal husbandry in general. You don’t necessarily need European genes in the slave populace to selectively breed superior individuals into your herd, any more than you need European genes in your cattle herd to improve it over a mere handful of generations. That’s just what happens when you are willing to spend $1000+ (50 oz of gold, at least $150k by today’s reckoning) on a strong, young buck.
Hence the athleticism we see in American Blacks. Africa is a big place with a couple billion Blacks or so. Yet, with some exceptions, we don’t see them running away with sports competition medals as we do with Western Blacks.
There weren’t so many couplings (rapes) as guilt demands. All the photos of black Union soldiers are entirely of pure Bantu Africans. The work of a house negro was preferrabe to that of the field negro, and easily more prestigious. It was these women (Sally Hemmings) who deliberately mated with whites (Tom Jefferson’s brother) to ensure her family would remain with the house. Hemmings would pass today, and one of her sons did pass in Ohio. After the war a relatively small number of largely white former slaves, male and female, found unlimited reproductive success. It is no less true… Read more »
“In fact, slaves were much more productive than the freemen.” An interesting fact—probably included in the book you referenced, but I’ve not read yet—is that slave owners learned way back before Stalin how to incentivize their slaves to maximize production. Slave owners began to assign slaves their own plot of ground which could be worked by the slave on his own time, that is to say after his assigned work duties on the master’s land. Slaves had every incentive therefore to work quickly and finish their master’s work and get back to working their own assigned plot of land. Proceeds… Read more »
That actually more describes Lenin’s New Economic Policy, which Stalin swiftly killed because it threatened his absolute control. Along the same lines, in the years before the Civil War, slaves sometimes entered trades such as blacksmithing and barbers and kept some of the profits with the bulk going to the owner, of course.
I don’t know the time, I assumed Stalin got rid of it—not started absolute collectivism—but my dates still say he did in 1928 with forced collectivism. Lenin might have first preached the idea, but he was a wax figure in the basement of the Kremlin by then. The fact relevant here was that when surfs were allocated a “private” parcel of land, the resulting productivity went through the roof. Here is the ChatGPT summary of what ai was getting at: By the 1940s and 1950s, private plots made up only about 3–5% of the agricultural land, but: Produced 25–30% of… Read more »
That actually refreshed my memory, and, yes, Lenin proposed it and then died, and Stalin implemented it. I’m not wed to capitalism as a moral thing or ideology or whatever but it is undeniable that its incentives spurs more production.
Capitalism is productive and destructive in equal measure.
Yep, when 90% of the population lives hand to mouth it does seem like socialism or capitalism is a better bet. Then you get it and everyone lives the “Life of Riley” and the society degenerates to where we now are. Oh the irony…
As with any economic or political system, there is a vast panoply of second-order consequences. They are largely unforeseen, and many of them are pernicious. It’s only ex post facto that we see what we wrought.
Hmpfffff. I think I want to call BS on one – possibly two of the ten facts. black slaves were treated well they reciprocated by being productive Maybe some were… but hell’s bells – most blacks – at least half – are too dumb to hold down a job at McDonald’s. They are literally borderline retards. There’s only two things that make blacks behave: fear and common sense. If they’re too dumb to have common sense, the only way to keep them in line would be a whip on their ass, or the very real threat of it. Looking at… Read more »
Also keep in mind that most of our American experiences with Africans are with those with European admixture who are the descendants of slaves. Baseline Africans are in aggregate WAY WAY more violent and stupid and dyscivilizational. Stupidly nice white people get a skewed appreciation of reality because when they meet baseline Africans inside American universities and corporations, they are the crème of the crop, drawn from the upper tenth of the top percent: extreme outliers. My second job was working in warehouse where I was the only non-black. They were nice guys as I recollect (this was before the… Read more »
In college, the black athletes had “tutors” that did their work for them. It was one of those commonly known secrets that was exposed when one of the “tutors” at University of North Carolina blew the whistle. Funny how the NCAA didn’t even give the Heels so much as a slap on the wrist.
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet, so apologies if you brought this up, but for those interested: Eric Foner’s first book, Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men is great on the economic ideology propping up abolitionism. Free labor simply couldn’t compete with slave labor in e.g. the Midwest, they thought at the time, so that’s why the Republican Party got such a huge following there so fast. (Foner is also a great example of a truly repellent person nonetheless doing excellent scholarship — he’s a Commie, literally, but he could keep it in his pants back then).
When Eric began work on an historical project, he never foned it in…
Until pretty recently, most communists who weren’t true insiders thought of themselves as opposition to the order we have now: unity of finance and state, intelligence and academia, technology and policing, etc. So they did a bunch of interesting work, especially in history, not anticipating that what they made was for us. Now communists are just Democrats—or local-equivalent regime partisans. Last time a Brit student schizo sold me a Socialist Worker, it was an emotionally wracked guide to ethical shopping “under Trump,” like Teen Vogue for ugly nerds. At the “library” of the future—a chatbot whose job is to hide… Read more »
the african slaves in America were slaves in Africa first and sold off by their African brothers. That’s who they should be mad at, if anyone.
Starting to arrest some of the kritarchs. To borrow a phrase from a POS many will remember “Faster Please.” There’s no avoiding the use of force to settle who is going to be in charge. The enemy has made it clear they do not and will not accept any alternative governance to their own. They openly justify using any manner of sedition, treason and violence as means to re-establishing themselves as dictators of our lives right down to asserting authority to mutilate our children’s genitals or subject us to medical experiments. The admin would be perfectly justified in declaring the… Read more »
“The admin would be perfectly justified in declaring the baby killing communist pedophile party an existential threat to the nation and begin rounding them up and giving them the J6 treatment.”
Hey, hey: that is not who we are. If America did that, we would be no better than Europe.
The chattel slavery system is the beau ideal of capitalism, with a class of workers supported at a minimum level of food, clothing, and shelter and the police authorities preventing any escape from their servitude. No pesky wage demands, strikes or labor unions to deal with. It was the 19th century version of “you will own nothing and you will be happy.”
And yet the capitalists of the day moved heaven and earth to end it, on three continents.
Finance ended it, because slaves don’t have debts (let’s say). As property, they were effectively outside the system. Their minds could be free, possibly, to imagine a free world. Now all their songs are about money, and they name their kids after purse brands.
It can be thought of that way. The people are screwed from many angles. I don’t think “banking” is primary, but its interests are almost always served.
They want deindustrialization now. What gave them the taste for it? Seems like a bad idea. Was there a test case? Maybe.
Chris Z Man —
Thanks so much for reaching out. I really appreciate it.
I would ask the group for advice, my brother passed away on Jan 25th, it was very hard on me because we were very close, he was my roomate for the last 25 years and best friend. How do you deal with the loss and depression? This is the first time I’ve had the energy to post.
Hmm … my old mail dot com email address is invalid. Weird.
Thanks.
Good to see you back
“How do you deal with the loss and depression?” One way—and this may not work for all—is to give sorrow and loss in life *purpose*! To this effect, I ask you, “How would your brother have felt if *you* had died first—leaving him all alone and in grief as you are now? If you believe he would have felt as you now do, or even worse, then your suffering and sorrow has meaning and purpose in that you are now suffering in his place. As you would have gladly done if possible in life, you now do in death. Sorrow… Read more »
Probably not much help, but The Stone Boy, a short story from the early 60s, IIRC, is my go-to.
Even if one was the proximate cause, it does not follow that one must feel remorse. Accidents happen.
I get the whole “Psychotic Steve” thing that is likely to ensue, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Mourn.
I wish it could be as trite as looking up the stages of grief, and while that could be useful, the actual mourning is a lost art you will have to work out for yourself.
The only way out is through.
Kind of interesting that a good revisionist history on the actual reality of slavery would written by two guys named fogel and engerman. Who’d a thunk…
Neocon apologetics.
Indeed, the slaves in Africa died rapidly and horribly of starvation and maltreatment, while the slaves who reached America (sold by kings and tribal leaders who had excess numbers of them) got good food and decent working conditions…Some were given firearms to supplement their food by hunting small game…As Ali said when he was in Zaire for the rumble in the jungle…”I’m sure glad my great great granddaddy caught that boat..”
But slavery was dying by the 1860s because of the flood of Irish immigrants, who were cheaper than slaves, and didn’t have to be purchased….
This is one of the myths they address. Contrary to this assertion, slavery was booming prior to the war.
As a member of the Ebil Ebil White Mens, I tend to rise early so as to get in a full day of Raping, Murdering, Pillaging and Oppressing of the Minorities. Buff them stereotypes!
Guess I’m a little miffed that Enslaving is off the board. But, not a perfect world sigh.
I transferred my Enslaving energy over to Pillaging, as that was my second favorite activity. I mean pillage pillage pillage, right?
Both sides of my family are from the South. I had only one wing who were former slave owners. My mom’s grandmother still had the plantation complete with sharecroppers working it. My mother could play with the black kids but the white kids were off limits. One time her grandma caught her playing with a white boy and she was spanked so hard she had to ride the school bus for a week sitting on a pillow. When her granddaddy was away, the grandma would have black workers come in the house for my grandma’s safety. The grandma viewed whites… Read more »
Some people might not understand what you’re saying about not allowing their children to play with other white children. But being from the South myself, I get it. Like you, one side of my family were slave owners and the other side was not. The reason you wouldn’t let your child play with another white child if you ran a plantation way out in the country is what you said in your third to last paragraph. The only other white children close by out in the country were likely “morally deficient” as you put it. You might have to travel… Read more »
our betters consistently are silent on the continuation of slavery in the modern world in a form that is much worse than anything in the south.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/global-silence-amid-hts-allies-take-alawite-women-sex-slaves-syria
From the Catholic Encyclopedia: “in 1462, Pius II declared slavery to be “a great crime” (magnum scelus); that, in 1537, Paul III forbade the enslavement of the Indians; that Urban VIII forbade it in 1639, and Benedict XIV in 1741; that Pius VII demanded of the Congress of Vienna, in 1815, the suppression of the slave trade and Gregory XVI condemned it in 1839; that, in the Bull of Canonization of the Jesuit Peter Claver, one of the most illustrious adversaries of slavery, Pius IX branded the “supreme villainy” (summum nefas) of the slave traders. Everyone knows of the beautiful letter which Leo XIII, in 1888, addressed to the Brazilian bishops, exhorting them to banish from their country the remnants of slavery… Read more »
It’s horribly ironic that the extremely brutal Arab and Brazilian slave-trades go almost completely unmentioned these days while the comparatively humane American slave trade is held up as an object of the utmost barbarism.
Gee, for the life of me I just cannot imagine why this is the case. Oy! Such a perplexity!
I would argue that industrialization spells the end of slavery as a system that works, and Trump is the greatest anti-slaver ever to have lived. The current GLOBAL system relies on slavery, with the usual low quality control and lack of real scale. The Germans tried industrial slavery with predictable results, as did the Soviets post-War. The Iphone? Made with cobalt and nickel mined by child slave labor in the Congo, imprisoned by child slave labor soldiers, and assembled in China with slave labor that is so bad that FoxConn had to install anti-suicide nets on their buildings. So many… Read more »
“European Protestants decided …” Specifically Englishmen and, more specifically, Quakers and Evangelical Anglicans.
One of the things about slavery that I discovered years after skrool was that the banks owned more slaves than anyone else. Need money to money to put your crops in this year? Take a loan out with the bank and use your slaves as collateral. Jefferson, for example, was leveraged right up to the hilt, including his slaves.
Black slaves in the old South actually assimilated quite well to American culture versus their ancestral tribal culture in Africa. They became devoutly religious, were diligent workers, developed strong family values, and most strove to improve themselves both physically and via education when provided. This occurred in large part because of artificial selections forces that rewarded these behaviors. As a cohort of America, blacks improved significantly over time and were on a track to earn their freedom naturally within a few generations. Even after the Civil War, this trend continued until President Johnson killed it with the Great Society civil… Read more »
Every assertion you make here about the black family can be decisively proven wrong by statistics still available online to those who are willing to dig for them. Your claims are essentially those of Saint Thomas Sowell, who proclaimed any negative distinctly black behavioral proclivities as aping the Scotts-Irish, and laid all blame for the lack of modern black family structure on Johnson. Absolute hogwash.
Sowell is an absolute joke and the worship of him even is worse. The aping of the Scots-Irish excuse fails spectacularly even as a lie in that the ethnicity of the whites in the immediate vicinity of slaves tended to be English or to a lesser extent Jewish. The Scots-Irish Southern majority was most prominent in the areas of Appalachia or immediately adjacent to it where few slaves were found. What Tom gets right, perhaps inadvertently, is that it requires strict supervision for blacks even to maintain a modicum of decorum and proper behavior.
“The aping of the Scots-Oirish”
I see what you did there.
The exact statistics on the Black family cohesion may or may not be correct, but the parallel statistics on Whites mirrors the same proposed progression and those are solid. As the laws against divorce weakened, as welfare became the ex-wife’s new husband, as Feminism took hold, complete family units lessened.
There is no reason to assume the phenomenon was not felt in Black family units as well. Sowell never argued other.
Southern slavery was an ideographic situation. Slaveowners had complete control over their slaves and could thus impose their morality and expectations upon them absolutely. That is why slaves behaved reasonably well. As white power over negroes diminished–and was much later forfeited entirely–the true nature of the African reemerged and here we are living in a gilded Gambia.
Yep. Look at old pictures of pre civil rights Blacks in cities or even in civil rights protests. They were dressed in the manner of middle class whites. When the civil rights era was over, Blacks took off their skin suits of civilized, Western society and reverted to their underlying nature. Less so for the “talented tenth”, but not entirely different. Every other race or ethnicity that immigrated here over a few generations adopted the prevailing White culture—but not Blacks. They couldn’t reject the trappings of the civilization they grew up in fast enough, and we—disingenuous Whites—encouraged it!
Quite. And we must give the negroes a certain amount of credit for the low cunning that makes them such effective con men. Ergo, one reason they comported with white aesthetic, cultural and behavioral norms–at least to a certain degree–was that they realized they could fool whites into believing they were just like us. That bit of legerdemain accomplished, they could then gain key political concessions, obtain power, and be off to the races. In this respect, they were absolutely right.
Given how crappy things were in the early colonies it doesn’t surprise me that many men went to try their luck in the western wilderness.
On the topic of slavery in North America, I found James LaFond’s book Cracker Boy to be fascinating. Black slavery was only part of the overall story. The subject matter is fairly grim but I think a dissident reader would find it worthwhile. One amusing aside – based on reading diary accounts cited in the book, it seems that the problem of poorly disciplined anglo women goes back a long way…
George Fitzhugh left us two comprehensive volumes on the institution of slavery in America within the context of both then-emergent capitalist practice and communist theory. Modern attempts to reframe it, even when not disingenuous, are largely superfluous. Lately, those by mostly very young people calling themselves national socialists to pitch it as a capitalist plot to drive down white wages and take white jobs parallel to today’s demographic engineering project might be the most laughable.
And, well, the top slave traders in the Mediterranean, well into the 2nd millennium after Christ, were the “Venetians” (yes, it’s your usual suspects), with Christians also doing their share of purchases, and the Vatican “tolerating it” (not that their not tolerating it would have stopped the trade to any meaningful extent, understandably).
By the middle of that millennium most Christian purchases in the region were ransoms sponsored by Catholic clergy. Meanwhile English and Dutch mariners were offering their services to the Barbary pirates, with the legendary raids on Iceland and Ireland being captained by one Jan Janszoon van Haarlem.
Revision this–the transatlantic slave trade was the best thing ever to happen to the sub-Saharans.
One could take the absolute worst possible view of slavery, of white people, and of western civilization in general, yet still be unable to refute this truth
“A happy slave was a productive and profitable slave.”
The ruling class really put this idea to good use on AINO, didn’t they?
Read “American Slavery As It Is”, which is not a history book, but a contemporary account written in 1835. It presents a different view.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VK6LH43?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_a_conn_dt_b_pd_1
Excellent summary. Last summer or fall you mentioned this book and The Revolution of 1861 as two books to read in order to get a better understanding of the conditions prevalent prior to the Civil War. Time on The Cross creates cognitive dissonance because of the cultural bombardment with the prevailing narrative in education, the Media and cinema. I often found myself wondering “they actually let them publish this?” The observation that the Civil Rights Movement was nothing but revenge is something I’ve understood since it started. The difference no is they aren’t even bothering to hide that fact. Darryl… Read more »
After listening, I think PERPETUAL slavery is an abomination, especially if one can be born into it. Don’t think I’ll ever change my mind about that. Children belonging to their parents, imprisoning criminals and making them work, even indenture— no problems with any of that. As long as the debt can be paid off. As for the treatment of slaves, the victor often demonizes the vanquished. Nothing new there, anybody with half a brain will take that stuff with a healthy grain of salt. As for the economics of it, sure, I could see it being more efficient for an… Read more »
I call it “Revisionist Revisionist History,” but that’s neither here nor there, I suppose.
History, like science, must always be open to revision in light of new research.
Scanning the comments, I get the thought an examination of the IQ (Irish Question), or maybe a broader Celtic Question, might be useful. Sounds like Northern life was especially hard on them. Honestly, it’s a topic that fascinates me, not just in terms of America, not just because I’m part Celtic. My impression is that Irish generally have affection for America, in spite of hardship, because so many came here and established themselves. Then there’s the whole ancient thing, caught between the Latin and the Germanic, the Catholic and Protestant, etc. Unrelated, I also suspect the decline of Protestantism, and… Read more »
Thanks! I will definitely read this book. Have you read “The Peculiar Institution” by Kenneth Stampp? I first read it in the 1970s, reread it this year. Published in 1956, the author seems to pursue a middle ground between the “slavery was pure crueltyl” and “slaves were happy as slaves” camps, the second of which may have been a straw man even at that time. He agreed on most of the 10 points, except for disputing that slaves were better off than poor white workers.What’s humorous was the prologue in which he asserts that blacks are exactly like whites except… Read more »
He also stressed the hostility of poor southern whites to slaves due to the economic competition. The South had few factories, most of which were staffed by slaves. He mentions one in particular that made it a point to only hire free labor. The moment the white workers went on strike, they fired them all and replaced them with slaves.
I read Frederick Douglass’s autobiography. Was he lying?
Time for these people to finally go back home to where they belong. When our people, I think specifically the Portuguese, found these people living in the bush, they were not only so primitive in technology, with no written language no art no philosophy, but they were so morally degraded, engaging in cannibalism of the dead, there was a serious debate among the best minds about whether they were even human. the thinkinghousewife did a lot of research on this and she found that without the profits from the use of slaves Europe would have fallen to the Saracens. the… Read more »
Here’s a bold personal request.
My copy of the book is long gone but I remember reading and discussing it the year it came out in my small, elite major/class within a very elite university. We reflected the national debate pretty well. My copy is long gone but I recall one of the authors dedicated the book to his wife, who “always knew that black was beautiful.”
Correct? And which one? Thanks in advance.
What exactly is supposed to be the point of slavery apologia?
What are people here trying to achieve?
It’s not an apologia. It’s a book report on a cold-eyed analysis of the economics of slavery in the ante-bellum South.
The trick is to sort through the macro, which is mostly bullshit, and the micro, which is true.
The worst thing about being a slave is the long hours. And you don’t get paid!
You get lifetime room and board, which many people were not able to provide for themselves in a completely laissez-faire economy with zero public assistance.
You sound like a Communist, sorry
What “completely laissez-faire economy“? When? Where?
As soon as any government decrees land parcels; regulates land usage; inserts itself into commercial disputes; imposes a money system; regulates banking; builds or controls ports or roads; declares existence of limited liability entities (which are only imaginary); monopolizes defense; or collects tariffs and taxes there can be no laissez-faire.
It’s ok to reject libertarianism and communism. Those creeds are stories about fairies and unicorns. They have some truth only on their margins.
If you listen to the show, slaves kept about 90% of their labor. This was much higher than the freemen. That does not mean slavery was puppies and rainbows. it just means the condition of slaves was better than the comparable hired man. Life was tough back then for most everyone.
Great show today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcgAdlKeQHs
Mildly Off-Topic, but the /pol/ server is now showing some tantalizing indications of possibly coming back from the grave:
CROSS. YOUR. FINGERS.
Cold hard fact according to A J Froude: the need to continually import slaves in the Carib was because slaves would not reproduce, and in Brazil because they couldn’t keep them corralled. In America they reproduced aplenty. Virginia made a business out of it, surpassing Tobacco. On a different note, both Tocqueville and Charles Mackay wrote identical discriptions of their trip down the Ohio river. One side was noisy with construction and the other was silent, with the occasional group of slaves milling about a field doing nothing. Large scale slavery may give labor, and industriousness, a bad name to… Read more »
Sounds like working for Amazon
Taxes and “fees”, house payments, car payments, credit card payments, medical payments, insurance payments – yeah, slaves.
That’s why the phrase, “wage slave”, resonates so much to those working stiffs.
The curious feature of man is that, even if he believes to his very core he is a slave, and there’s no whip to keep him under control, he still chooses wage slavery over hanging out a shingle.
Absolutely true, hence the concept of “slave mentality”. Yep, people would rather be kept and told what to do than risk independence and the accompanying responsibility for self.
Ask my dog about that. She runs off leash and could take off anytime, but never ventures farther than she can see me. She’s free to be a predator, but that’s been bred out of her. Now she only wishes to sit around by me and get fed twice a day. I’m certain if she was separated, she’d take sick soon and die.
Do we have any legit photos of “Pam Hyde”?
Thanks in advance.
No, no, no. You don’t get to play Hyde the Salami.
The worst thing about slavery is that it brought “them” here.
We got the Pilgrims and then the Africans. A recipe for disaster.
The dreaded Afro-Puritan combination.
The deep American South was a HOT disease-ridden wilderness. African slaves were about the only way you could get labor in the deep South. I believe it was Memphis that the whole damn town died of yellow fever in the late 1800’s.
“African slaves were about the only way you could get labor in the deep South.”
Not exactly true but close enough. After the war they created the sharecropper system and desperate whites worked the fields just like the blacks. But it must have been pure hell. Anybody who could tried to escape that situation.
“The deep American South was a HOT disease-ridden wilderness.”
Sounds rather like sub-Saharan Africa, but without the lions, tigers and mambas.
If so, the place never should have been colonized. Unfit for habitation.
Barney Rubble: ‘The worst thing about slavery is that it brought “them” here.’
Courtesy of (((them))).
The great unsolved question is why did (((they))) decide to assassinate Lincoln?
Capitalism brought them here.
It was capitalism. Prejudice against this truth has contributed to the fecklessness of cripples who call theirselves conservatives or libertarians.
Per the current meaning and current context of “slave”, nobody wants to be a slave. I don’t care how well they were apparently treated. The very nature of slave means you have no rights, or at the very least, you have no say in what those rights are…you are beholden to whoever makes the regulations. I’d rather live as a poor farmer than a slave who lives in a mansion. I think we all would.
But maybe the problem is in semantics. Rather than “slave” or “slavery”, maybe we should say “permanent servant” or “permanent servitude”.
Prisoners With Jobs?
Tax Serf
Marko, you’re delving into a viciously brutally existentially dangerous psycho-sociological trap, which the j00, sigmund freud, called, “Projection”.
Just because you approach life in one particular fashion does not necessarily mean that the other EIGHT BILLION hominids on the face of this Earth will necessarily approach life in the same fashion as do you.
“Projection”, or its close sibling, “Making Assumptions which you do not Realize you have Assumed”, are psycho-sociological traps which will ruin you.
tl;dr == Step back just a few short feet, and SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES.
“The worst thing about being a slave is the long hours. And you don’t get paid!”
Tell that to any corporate flunky on salary. He’ll laugh in your face.
The worst thing about being unemployed is that you never get a vacation.
Had to think about that one…. 😉