Going by my own experiences, my sense is Europeans fall into three groups with regards to the Muslim invasion of Europe. There are those who are moderately xenophobic about the whole thing and are not afraid to say it, even if they are called Hitler for their trouble. These are people who have long ago grown tired of explaining the basics of human behavior to their betters so they no longer bother. They just oppose immigration. These are the Old Europeans.
The second group are those who are emotionally moved by immigration to the point where they seek out positive immigration stories in their news so they can feel good about it. They see a story of a European being kind to a migrant and they are filled by a warm glow, like the feeling you get when you drink liquor on a cold day. Like the first group, these people no longer bother explaining their position. If you do not get it, you are probably a racist so who cares what you think?
These are folks who call themselves New Europeans, but like everything else about them, that is a lie. Their imagined future does not include Europeans. Instead, it is a mythical world where dusky fellows speaking gibberish operate the machinery of Western civilization, without any of the hard work and intellect that is required to maintaining it. The European is just an avatar, forever basking in the grace of the world he created for the benighted.
There is a third group that never gets into the news, because they do not participate in the great debates over the Muslim invasion. At least they do not show up on the street waving banners or on the television screaming at members of the other group. This is the silent majority, so to speak. Most Europeans are in this group and most would just as soon never discuss this issue. These are the New Men of the New Europe.
On the one hand, generations of hectoring by the beautiful people have made these folks instinctively fearful of being lumped in with the xenophobes and racists. They do not think about it. Like trained animals, they simply react to commands. Their logical parts can hear the arguments against immigration, comprehend them and agree with them, until they hear the cry “racism” and they hit the panic button, erasing everything they have in their mind on the topic.
On the other hand, these folks look at the trial of Geert Wilders and they know this cannot end well. Whatever one wants to say about his positions or how he goes about stating them, you cannot have a civilized country while throwing people in jail for holding an opinion. The only difference between what the fascist did and what is happening now is the fascists were honest about it. The Dutch authorities are slathering on a frosting of lies to go along with their thuggery.
The New European has grown accustomed to working out these contradictions. It is what defines him. There is always a good reason for not joining on one side or the other. Generations of abuse by their betters have left them unable to look their betters in the eye. At the same time, generations of groveling have made them too weak in the fight against the xenophobes. They are dispensable Europeans.
And they are being dispensed with at an accelerating pace. When European leaders are not coming up with news reasons to snuff out their own people, the Muslims are taking a more basic approach to clearing out towns and villages they would like to occupy. Set off enough bombs and those still alive get the message. That message is, “You’re not welcome. This is our country now.”
There are dozens of families who will never see their loved ones again, thanks to the leaders of Europe. They created this. They invited this and they refuse to address it. They want that warm feeling so bad they are willing to sacrifice as many of their people as is necessary to get it. Like heroin addicts, they cannot get enough of the opiate of multiculturalism. It is always more and more, while life gets worse and worse.
The New European Man will read these words and wave them off. “Our leaders will figure it out eventually. They are just trying to do the right thing, the humanitarian thing.” That is what is called wishful thinking, the thing you cling to when you got nothing else or you are unwilling to consider anything else. It is why the New European Man will not be a part of what comes next for Europe. They may not even be in the stands for the big game.
The Muslims have figured out that European leaders are paper tigers. They will not fight. Eventually, the xenophobes will figure this out as well. The guys joining Pegida, Sons of Odin and similar groups will learn the same lessons the Muslims have learned. Then they will adopt the same tactics. This is a civilizational disaster unless the New European Men figure out that the future belongs to those who show up.
If a rabbit could talk, it would sound exactly like Karl.
It is well said that if a lion could speak, we could not understand him. A rabbit, on the other hand…..
You lost me…talking rabbit?
I thin you mean No Country for White Man.
“The guys joining Pegida, Sons of Odin and similar groups will learn the same lessons the Muslims have learned. Then they will adopt the same tactics. This is a civilizational disaster unless the New European Men figure out that the future belongs to those who show up.”
The problem with this is that most of the “far-right” and anti-immigration parties/groups have been heavily infiltrated by the intelligency agencies of the European establishment, this isn’t a Conspiracy theory:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_stay-behind_network
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabant_killers
There is similar examples in other European countries, the French Front National had the Party personal security organized by Jacques Foccart, the man responsible for France’s Africa foreign policy (basically the Neo-Colonialism still displayed like the Mali intervention).
Notice how these Muslim attacks make everyone “sad”. “Sad” people in Brussels observing a moment of silence, then applauding their own virtuous sadness. The “sad” Parisians lighting up the Eiffel Tower into the Belgian flag. Come on! Enough “sad”. How about “angry”? How about getting so riled up that you actually start thinking about what to do about this situation? Now, the “sad” pu**ies out there are going to equate that anger with the idea of dropping more bombs on Syria, and try to weasel out that way. But use that anger to start doing things, large and small, to honestly identify the problem and start driving these evil people out of our civilization. Put the Muslims you encounter on the spot, and make them choose between overt support of our enemies, or apostasy to the core of the Muslim religion. These “sad” people save their true anger for “evil right-wingers”, who are, by and large, working hard to pull the “sad’s” butt out of the social and cultural meat grinder. We live in an awful time, in that our western culture lies to itself so much.
Sounds like the Eloi are importing Morlocks.
I and most people I know loathe these self exploding twats.Another 20-30 atrocities and maybe somebody will start the ball rolling on what is inevitable,a reckoning.
@ Thud – As you may be aware, here in Germany we have an unlimited speed limit on our autobahns. This was heavily influenced by the major car manufactures years ago. Since then, our ADAC (German auto club) and various insurance companies put pressure on successive governments to restrict the speed limit. In response, the government has made it clear that anyone who causes an accent while exceeding 130kph will be held liable. However they have not come out and banned unlimited speed.
What they have done is increased the number of 120 and 130-kph speed limit signs all over the country. In fact, it is nearly impossible to find long stretches of unlimited speed autobahns. Fortunately I know a few and use them often! 😉
I say that to say this – the German government recognized the risk to life at these speeds and without fan-fair or public out-cry, initiated a subtitle yet effective way to slow people down. Given the full understanding of what multi-culti can actually lead to, I suspect our policy on immigration will follow suit. It may be slow, but it will happen.
In 2006, 250kph on the A9 headed to Berllin.
i understand that people dying or getting maimed in speed-related car accidents is a problem that needs addressing and that strategically placed signs may help. But what do you see as the immigration-related problem that needs solving in Germany and what policies do you suggest your government implement to solve them?
It’s pretty simple; enforce the existing laws, just like in America.
The problem in the U.S. is illegal immigration and overstaying visas, so yes, enforcing the existing laws here would be the solution. What exactly is the problem in Germany that enforcing existing German law would solve?
Enforcing the laws would prevent unauthorized people from being in our country in the first place. As in the US, non-citizens have to apply for a visa. That’s why when you come here for a visit, you’re only allowed a 90-day stay maximum. If you exceed it, then the officials find you and ask you to leave. If we enforce the laws, we restrict and control those who come in and know who’s in and who’s gone. Like passport control at the airport.
With the refugee situation, Merkel lifted the requirements and simply opened the gates to undocumented foreigners with either forged paperwork or no paperwork. By enforcing entry restrictions and forcing people to leave who are not allowed to be here, then the problem of illegals would not exist to the extent it does today.
You may not be aware of this but all German citizens (and foreign guests) have to register with the town hall where they live. If you move from Frankfurt to Mainz, then you de-register with the Frankfurt city hall and register with the Mainz city hall. In a way it’s like in the US with your drivers license; if you leave one state, you have to obtain a new drivers license in the state where you reside. And in the same way, if you are caught unregistered (or driving with an out of state license) then there is a penalty.
Okay, so Merkel created the current problem by fiat by opening the gates to a million or so “undocumented foreigners,” i.e., Muslim refugees, with either forged paperwork or no paperwork. Why?
Brussels is the capital of the EU and where the headquarters of NATO is localized but they have a whole neighborhood called Molenbeek that is basically a muslim ghetto in the heart of the city.
Belgium’s problem is worse than other European countries because it isn’t a real country, the South is French and the North is Dutch, Brussels speak French but is in Dutch territory, you could honestly say that if wasn’t for the decision of which side wil get Brussels the country would had dissolveld long time ago.
Not sure Belgium is going to secede from itself anytime soon, but yes, it’s a small country divided by language and culture. Have you ever seen the statue of Brabo in Antwerp? Interesting story. Legend tells that’s where the city got its name.
True. This is well known here. There are similar ghetto’s across Europe, primarily in France and Sweden. Germany has a few as well and there is major surveillance going on that never existed before. Italy has been interesting to watch on their approach to the problem. The mafia takes no pleasure in anyone crossing paths or disturbing their control. Despite their criminality, they don’t tolerate anyone “messing in their back yard.” The Italian government, despite it’s corruption problems, is very quick put pressure on the Muslims which is why you don’t hear of similar situations.
Rosengård, in Malmö is a Muslim slum where native Swedes diare not tread. Same with Rinkeby in Stockholm.
@ theZman – Not to change the topic (which is good) but I recently read about US police being able to confiscate private property during routine traffic stops. It seems Americans have had property and cash taken away and they have to prove it is actually theirs. I thought there was something against unlawful search and seizure in your 4th Amendment. Would be interested to hear about that subject
@karl – You’re thinking of civil forfeiture. The intent of these laws is to break up drug gangs. For instance, the bank reports a regular large deposits of cash into an account which is then swept by a foreign bank. The Feds will seize the account and maybe the accounts of anyone associated with the account. The logic behind it is the patter of activity suggests the thing is the product of a crime. The people may not be charged, but they have to explain how they came into possession of the thing in order to get them back. Again, the court has to issue the order to seize the items.
This gets abused by local cops, like everything else. You could be driving from the casino after hitting it big and get pulled over with a trunk full of cash. The cops will seize the cash and force you to go through a lengthy legal process to get the cash back. This does not happen a lot, but it certainly happens. The courts have upheld civil forfeiture as constitutional, as long as due process is observed. But, that has opened the door to mischief.
@ theZman – “civil forfeiture” is an interesting term. It seems like a twist of words for the government to accomplish what your Constitution prevents. But I can see the benefits and possible abuse. Hopefully your police are generally honest.
@Karl – it is a narrow exception, at least that is the intent. It’s actually something we inherited from the Brits. There’s two forms. One is civil forfeiture which is when the state seizes property that is most likely the result of a crime. Then their is criminal forfeiture where they state takes the property of a criminal. In both cases, due process rules apply so it is not as scary as it sounds. But, all power given to the state will be abused. Men are not angels.
The term civil forfeiture is used because no criminal charges need to be filed. It happens to motorists as well as businesses that have a high percentage of cash income. This can take a long time to read, but it got to me.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/
I can only imagine the frustration and anger of a law abiding person running a local BBQ and being pulled over by the local cop and having his daily earnings taken away because of a “suspicion”. Unbelievable. No wonder Americans are so frustrated with their government.
I forget the Latin for it, but the term of art is “against the thing” while the alternative is “against the person.” If forced to pick, I’d wants the state to prove the property is the proceeds of a crime before they could seize it. That said, I understand the trade-offs at play. Paco the heroin dealer has a million in cash in his crib that he got from selling heroin, but he can use to hire lawyers to get out of the charges against him for selling heroin.
Is that properly translated as “against the Thing”?
The Thing, or alThing, was the Saxon version of the State.
Recompense was based on wight und weregild, payment to the state, payment to the family, such as blood money for murder.
Half of Viking society were lawyers, anyone could volunteer to represent a claimant.
The idea of “Europeans” erroneously lumps everyone on this side of the pond into one group. It’s not the same as calling everyone from California to New York an “American” regardless of where your ancestors came from. I understand your concept about these groups but the comment “…even if they are called Hitler for their trouble.” would not be a fair to our French, Swiss, and Spanish neighbors. Keep in mind we Germans can trace our tribal roots all the way back to the Alamanni, Franks, Angles, and Saxons which goes back over 2,000 years. The broad sense of the term “European” has to be used with a grain of salt as no German would wish to be confused with an Austrian or Swiss, any more than the Spanish would want to be confused for Portuguese. Germans and French are not European in the same way Texans or New Yorkers are American.
As I can only speak of Germany, there is probably some truth to how people generally respond to the Muslims, but you have to remember that for the Germans, our association to the Muslim religion is based on the association with Turkish-Germans since the1950’s. And while not fully integrated despite multiple generations of them living here, I would have to say most Turks are fully vested in German society. For example, if you look at our prisons you would find a very small percentage of Turks which would indicate their social sense of responsibility since they tend to be very conservative and law abiding. They have a very solid and strict family structure and in some ways, is exactly what German families were only two or three generations ago. Granted the Turks don’t tend to achieve highly in academia or business, but they do make up a large percentage of skilled workers at VW and thousands of small/medium companies across Germany.
For the Dutch and the French and our UK cousins, their association with Muslims are very different as they have had a much closer association with middle-eastern countries for hundreds of years. Germany did very little, very late in regards to colonization which resulted in little contact with foreigners in our own country – with exception of the Turks, and only in the last half of the 1900’s. As I mentioned before, this is why no one in Germany expected the behavior that we experienced over New Years Eve. Unlike our Nordic or French neighbors, Germany does not have a history of such an open policy towards foreigners, especially those from the middle east. The first time most German ever met a Black-American face to face was during WW2.
The current situation is a completely new event for Germans for all three groups you mention. It has polarized the hard left (AfD and NPD), caused a reality check for the SPD and CDU and even our Green and Die Linke party’s are taking a second look at how this could affect us – in fact they are more center leaning now that they are older and less “pie in the sky”. I have read reports that this whole situation is even polarizing the left parties who are waking up to the reality of what a multi-culti society can turn into in reality. All those theories about holding hands and singing kumbaya went out the window on New Years eve.
As for “paper tigers”, we are not looking for a military solution to this problem The force of arms, while popular with American culture, is one of the main reasons the middle-east is in such an uproar over the west. I would imagine if people 10,000-km away started drone-bombing your country, you would all react the same way. Prior to the US involvements in the Middle East, the majority of terrorist activity was home grown with groups like Symbionese Liberation Army in the US or the Baader Meinhof here in Germany. And don’t kid yourself that we’re are standing idly watching things happen. The German police, despite their passive appearance, know exactly how to handle a situation without attracting attention, especially when it comes to making foreigners know they are not welcome. The town of East Palo Alto is a well known drug haven and predominantly black, crime ridden area. Divided by Hwy-101, the Palo Alto police (on the west side of Hwy-101) would often loiter around the bridge the joined the two cities and without using force, let the people in EPA know they were not welcome. It’s the same here, trust me.
I should mention that this situation really caused some shifts in the CDU and SPD as they have just announced a 6% increase in our old age pensions. Considering the annual increases have not exceeded the cost of living increase for nearly 25-years, the CDU and SPD are taking the recent AfD influence very seriously. And with the closing of the southern borders, the human traffic we experienced last year is nearly at a stand still. Even my son, who is very liberal, is rethinking his position and his attitude about “…we can all live together as one world”. It may be the very wake up call we need to deal with our future given how badly this turned out.
We Germans have had some hard lessons about what happens when you don’t fully consider all the possibilities of our actions. Frau Merkel may have had an “American moment” but we see the course turning. Honestly, I really don’t see Germany, or the rest of Europe, becoming Muslim any more than I would expect California, Arizona, New Mexico or Texas to suddenly become Mexican.
And you’ll be blathering on about that until the moment you have your throat cut after watching the Muslims kill the rest of your family in front of you. Decuck yourself, gelding.
“…after watching the Muslims kill the rest of your family in front of you.”
only after they gang-rape your wife amd daughters. *Then* they cut all your throats.
Decuck, indeed. Quit with the long-winded intellectual exercises. Too late for that. This is an existential threat, not a philisophical one.
Put down your books and pick up a gun (oh, that’s right, it’s too late for that, isn’t it?).
Thank God for the 2nd Amendment.
@ FuelFilter – Who told you we don’t have guns? Of course we do! What do you think we used to wipe out all our native deer, wolves and bear – spears and arrows? We just don’t wave them around or hang them in the back of our pick-up trucks. Well, okay, to be honest we don’t really have pick-up trucks except that horrible Volkswagen Amarok. So you got me there. Speaking of guns, did you know the Glock-19 is Austrian made and is the most popular pistol in America over Colt and Smith & Wesson. Just saying! 😉
You really think that if a rush of citizens went to get their weapons out of government storage that Merkel would actually allow it?! Ha! No. The reason we Americans keep our weapons close by is so we don’t have the nanny state telling us we can’t bring them home and controlling if and when we may protect ourselves. You actually think that saying we keep out shot guns on gun racks in our trucks is some how an insult. It’s not. It’s a God given right, and we’re proud of it.
@ 5MilesOut – Actually we have them at home just like you do. No, the comment on pick up trucks was not an insult. I’ve seen movies with this arrangement and it was amazing to see that people could drink and drive and have a firearm in their truck. America – what a country! 🙂
Oh, Karl. You are precious. You don’t even have the cojones to come on out and admit when you’re trying to insult an American. It’s cute… a little sad, but still cute.
@ 5MilesOut – If I wanted to insult America or Texans, you’d know it. But I have no reason to do so. You have to remember that much of what Germans know about America (or Texas) is from movies and TV shows. The result is a very distorted version of the reality of life in America. I am often defending the US with my German friends who think what they see on TV is how things really are.
But having said that, I suspect while walking around with a firearm in public in Texas would be “normal” it would probably not be a welcomed site in San Francisco or Vermont.
Like many Americans who visit Europe, the perspective of life is limited to a short holiday with little contact with the “natives”. Because few Americans can speak German it limits their ability to engage and ask questions. It’s why I enjoy this site since I get a bit of a cross section of the US – there’s people on here from across the US.
Okay, buddy.
Your game-shooting shotguns are hardly a match for a custom-made Ar-15s or semi-auto pistols in all their various forms. And can you buy and hold unlimited amounts of ammo (as bulky as that would be for a shotgun)?
@ Old Codger – As I am not a sport shooter, so I would have to look up our laws. But as far as I know, there are not that many restrictions on the weapons or the ammunition so Germans can own shotguns, long guns, pistols and revolvers. And of course we can store them at home.
I was surprised at the quantity and quality of handguns and rifles owned by Germans in the former East back in the early 90s. The owners were anxious to show off their collections to an American. Gun laws were somewhat tightened after a school shooting in Erfurt, but there are still plenty of firearms legally in peoples’ homes.
Glock, you say? I thought you didn’t want to be confused with an Austrian?
Ah, well — I love my G19. 15,000+ rounds and counting. I own a few Smiths, but if TSHTF, the Glock would be on my hip.
15,000 rounds? If you fired 1 round per second, not stopping to reload, it would take you about 4-hours of non-stop shooting to go through it all. So what happens at the fifth hour? 🙂
The Tupperware Glock bought its market share with yuuuge discount sales to LEOs around the country! Hardly a fair comparison. Take out LEO sales and that Tupperware falls significantly.
I believe the Glock is most popular with both US military and police forces.
Karl, I’m sorry to report that large portions of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas are indistinguishable from Mexico. So much for your theory. I would suggest that you think about the implications of that very seriously.
But are they Mexico, or are they still US states? Is your concern the population is changing or that these states will become loyal to Mexico? Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the demographics of America have changed faster than any where else in the world in the last 250-years. That’s not the case here in Europe. People come to America to become American, not turn your country into where they came from. It’s the same here.
Here in “old Europe”, things happen a bit slower. And besides, just look at how badly organized the Middle East and the Muslims really are. They haven’t figured out the most basic concepts of industrialized civilization. Why do you think American and European engineers are over there building everything for them?
You may have heard Belgium was just bombed today…thoughts and prayers to those families who lost loved ones…but don’t kid yourself – we are resilient people and will not roll over because of a few fanatics. Germans are more like the Israelis than the Americans – we do what we have to, we just don’t make a media sensation of it.
“People come to America to become American, not turn your country into where they came from.”
Sorry, Karl, but that hasn’t been the case for 50 years now. Pre-1965, immigrants made an effort to integrate into American society and become American– mainly because they pretty much had to. Nobody here spoke their language or gave a damn about whatever culture they came from for the obvious reason that they had already integrated and left all that behind. Post 1965, we opened the floodgates to 3rd world immigration– both legal and illegal– and since then most immigrants have simply ceased to integrate. Large parts of the southwest have become indistinguishable from Mexico for the simple reason that they never stopped being Mexican. That includes language, politics, and education levels. These are not people who came here looking to better themselves; rather they just wanted to keep being exactly who they were, but on a different piece of real estate.
Here’s a little US history exercise for you: figure out what happened in 1965 that fucked everything up completely. HINT: Ted Kennedy.
That must have been around the time they started teaching in Spanish and English in schools? Okay…I take everything back.
I have lived my entire life in Texas, and we have never resembled Mexico. The border towns do. Texas has always had a huge German and Czech and Irish community, as well as Mexicans. So, you’re incorrect.
@ 5MilesOut – Ah, a native Texan! Have you visited New Braunfels. We have the original Braunfels here in Hessen, you should come visit it. Germany has very strong ties to Texas that go back to our Mainzer Adelsverein.
I suspect the Mexican-Texas thing is a sensitive subject so I will ask this carefully. 🙂 Was Texas part of Mexico or part of Spain before it became a Republic (state). I understand Texas is also predominantly Democratic (?) and sided with the south to defend slavery (just history, not a commentary on current Texan politics as I am watching the Ken Burns ‘Civil War’ documentary). Why doesn’t Texas fear a sudden surge of illegals into Texas given the proximity to Mexico?
I live in New Braunfels. When I was a child and went shopping at wuests grocery with my grandmother many of the customers and cashier ladies spoke German(as a first language). Today they speak Spanish. I have seen a serious demographic change here in Texas during my lifetime. I’m only 50. Its all coming to an end. The culture of theft that Mexico endures has made its way here. Just like in Mexico many folks are beginning build walls around their homes. Give it another twenty to thirty years and we will all have to speak Spanish to conduct business. Even cities along the border are conducting business in Spanish — and they are doing it in spite of the wishes of the State bureoucrats in Austin.
All it will take is a president willing to cut their goodies in half and you won’t see near the amount of non-English speaking Mexicans. Those same Mexicans will tell you this. If their opportunities of leisure by way of the American tax dollar is cut, even a little, they will head further up north, where they are viewed as exotic creatures. I will worry about this only if one of those commies is elected president.
“I will worry about this only if one of those commies is elected president.” Sorry, I thought Trump was a Republican and Clinton was a Democrat. Which one of the presidential candidates is a Communist?? Not trying to be smart, just trying to understand your comment.
It seems to me that what you “think” and what is true are not the same.
@ Sam – it would seem the US, due to it’s sheer size, should be able to deal with the immigration problem better than Europe. Not only do you have a much larger population, you have the land as well so they could be assimilated as with past immigrants. Or is that not possible?
I suspect that the biggest problem isn’t so much people heading south, as it is the fact the US government fails to adequately enforce its own laws. It seems to be a common western trend.
@ Sam – From what you have described, it would seem your state (and other border states) is coming full circle. Looking at the history of Texas, native Indians were displaced by the Spanish over four hundred years ago and now the “native” Texans are being replaced by non-native immigrants from the south. I’ve always found the idea of “native” Texan being a white-European a bit odd, since the original Texas natives were neither white nor European.
Yes, of course I’ve been to New Braunfels, many times. I’ve been all over the great state of Texas. Texas was, at one time, its very own country. It’s why it has and is called The Lone Star State. And it is the only state flag in America that can fly at the same level as Old Glory. And we are given the right to secede any time we choose. To a native Texan, talking about Mexico isn’t in the least bit uncomfortable or a sensitive subject; it’s only upsetting to Mexicans, which… who cares about them!? No, again, Karl with a “K”, Texas is a Republican state. As far as your ridiculous slavery gab, nobody in Texas cares about that, either. And those illegals crossing Texas borders tend to not stay here; they wander up north or to Cali, where the “gettin'” is good.
@ 5MilesOut – Does Texas have the same immigration problem as California?
The whole of America has a problem with illegal aliens. And what’s your point, exactly? We have a world-wide problem with leaders that seem to have the same strange reasoning abilities as yourself. This type of thinking, Karl, is a plague on the rest of us that were blessed with self-preservation and clarity.
My part of the State of California already is quite similar to Mexico. Its richer nicer and somewhat safer but its very Hispanic in culture. That said its a big state and some parts are different than this, Whiter or more Asian. In that regard its more Brazil with a slightly higher IQ/Lower time preference population.
Its suffers from all the normal 3rd world problems though, untenable welfare state, high crime in ethnic areas , crumbling infrastructure and hugely declining academic performance (top 5 to bottom 5 in a few decades) . It also has a lot of capital flight
New Mexico has it worse since it lacks Silicon Valley and Hollywood.
Texas is something of an anomaly as it gets capital inflows, a Conservative government and has better assimilation than the other States but it too is not doing that well.
European nations will probably not end up that way though.
My though as an outsider is you need to tell your firms to live without cheap labor no more Turks nor anyone else who isn’t German. You have ample natives to do this work, East Germans and others and the increase in wages and homogeneity will increase population growth, Instead of allowing your Left to determine education, teach Germans self loathing, you might want to stop that as well. Germany is a great nation and while the totalitarian temptation wasn’t good for the country, its not worse than any other nation has ever done. Its not especially evil, just the ordinary human nastiness
@ AB Prosper – From what I understand, the situation of California (and other democratic states) is not because of who lives there, but because of the party that runs it. Is this correct?
I appreciate your comment on the Turks and East Germany. The Turks are actually not cheap labor, especially now that we have a minimum wage. In fact there is no “cheap labor” in the way you have Mexican day laborers. We do have Poles and other old East Bloc laborers, but our laws on employment are very strict so it’s harder and hard to hide this sort of thing, especially where construction is tightly controlled..
Volkswagen built a huge facility in Dresden some years ago to take advantage of the lower cost of living in the East, but 80-years of communism and isolation from the west will take a while to recover. Taking down a wall is easy, re-adjusting a culture is not. I will say that East German education was in many ways superior to West German since they were not so liberal. They are certainly capable, but it will take a while since there is little infrastructure or opportunity on that side of Germany.
“@ AB Prosper – From what I understand, the situation of California (and other democratic states) is not because of who lives there, but because of the party that runs it. Is this correct?”
They’re both highly related. California was at one point a swing state. Loads of immigrants have helped in turning it blue. Those people vote Democrat every single time, they vote for more immigration. They vote for more illegal immigration, in the forms of politicians that won’t enforce existing laws, overturning said laws, as well as amnesty programs for those already here illegally… The cycle continues.
@ joe – Do you suspect all of California will go they way of Detroit? Are LA and SF heading that direction? I recall several California towns including Stockton have declared bankruptcy. I remember that at one point, if California was a country, it would have been 9th in world economic prosperity. Are most Americans as pessimistic about the future of America as the media seems to indicate?
CA is an interesting place. I live and work in Silicon Valley, so I feel like I’m at ground zero for the haves/have not debate. I’m lucky enough to be in the former camp (I get a rather large paycheck, but because of the high cost of living, I eek out a middle class lifestyle. But here you are lucky to get even that).
The traditional middle class has fled CA in droves in the last 15 years. And when I say CA, I’m referring to the metro areas. Central CA is a different story. Affordable to live there as it is mainly farmland, but there are very few jobs.
So the metro areas have serious fiscal issues under the surface. They owe a tremendous amount to public workers’ pensions negotiated by their unions (part of the reasons unions/workers’ rights get such a bad name over here). It does seem to be only a matter of time until we all go Detroit/Stockton etc. The saving grace is that the tech companies bring in ridiculous amounts of money to keep the San Franciscos of the world afloat for just a while longer. No idea how long it will last, or maybe it will never pop.
From the bottom end, as was mentioned earlier, we’ve had a massive influx of Mexicans both legal and illegal into the state in the last 30 years. Many do integrate, many do not. Many have trouble finding jobs due to automation and too high supply of manual labor jobs. It’s ticks the locals off to see teenagers/college students getting squeezed out of the entry level job market in favor of grown ass immigrant men.
Crime and culture is another factor. Drunk driving is not seen as taboo in mexican culture. They are big into “machismo”, and a person is viewed as effeminate and can’t handle their liquor, if he has to call a taxi to get himself home. Many drive around with no insurance. It’s not uncommon to hear a story about getting into an accident, and then seeing the mexican fellow just run off.
Statutory rape is another topic of soreness. Culturally in Mexico it is not unusual for older men to be with teenage girls. This obviously bothers the locals. Especially native born hispanics in the state who have their daughters being catcalled by grown ass men. So yeah, we all have our equal share of problems.
When I lived in Silicon Valley back in the 80;s and 90’s I had a sense that the state was very divided. Northern California had a very different sense of itself than Southern California. Nearly to the point of being two entirely different states. I really never cared for LA but found the real beauty of the state north of SF all the way to the Oregon border.
There is a division between norcal and socal, but it’s a different one that the haves/have-nots. It’s more of a cultural division. Norcal people on average don’t like Socal people. They view them as overly materialistic, flashy, etc. And there is some truth to it. In Socal, what car you drive, how you dress are much more important social signifiers than in Norcal. The flipside is that Socal people view Norcal folk as a bunch of preening hippies. These are total generalizations of course.
Norcal there is more of a premium placed on activism and intellectualism. More virtue signaling and that sort of thing. People take their environmentalism very seriously. Cars and clothes matter much less. There was the famous story about how Mark Zuckerberg drove his old Volvo for a very long time, even after he had made his money. There are many such examples of mid 20s millionaires who wear their hoodies and sandals still.
How long until you pack your bags, Karl, and move to safety in Poland or Hungary? I want to remind you that those two countries are only safe because they are “fascist”, full of “Hitlers” and are “extreme” right wing. And God bless ’em for it.
We tried to get our part of Poland back a “few” years ago everyone got upset with Uncle Adolf over that little event. Hungary, well, they’re doing better than Poland but just. Unfortunately like all old communist countries, they are nice places to visit but you wouldn’t really want to live there. Having said that, Budapest (that’s actually two cities, not one) is beautiful. If you ever get over here, make sure you go. Prague is also very nice. Poland, I would advise you don’t go in the winter, the entire country smells of brown coal.
“Smells of brown coal.” Sorry, that made me laugh. Those countries a recovering from communism, yes. I’d live in a free buck broke country any day of the week over a muslim/communist Hell hole. It takes mass amounts of smugness to view the world the way you and your German volks do. It’s sad. It’s very, very sad.
Not smugness, just a different perspective. Germans have no connections with the racial problems America has been dealing with for so many years. I remember the Los Angeles race riots, then it seemed to spread around the US. Remember, we’re less than half the size of Texas and after having most of our country obliterated80-years ago, it’s difficult to understand how cities like Detroit could happen without the help of a war.
Karl, it is not erroneous to lump you all together in this instance as Europeans because the member countries of the Eurozone all have the same policy in regards to “refugees”. Isn’t this policy handed down from Brussels? Yes, we know that you are German first and foremost, as people in France are Frenchmen, etc., etc., however the Moslems in your country and throughout Europe consider themselves Moslem first, last, and always. Even the Turks you often speak of. Do you know how I know that they have not assimilated? Most importantly, because they are Moslem, but also because you refer to them as Turks, even though, presumably, there are many born right in Germany and may never have been to Turkey at all. You say you don’t worry about them because they are vested in Germany, but in truth they are not. They just let you think that they are, while they bide their time. Islam is playing the long game, and this “refugee” invasion is part of the Third Jihad. In Islam, you, and all non-Moslems are part of Dar al-Harb or House of War. The attacks in Paris and now in Brussels are just battles in a larger war. The only question is: will the people of Europe defend themselves? Or hold useless vigils while Moslems plan their next attack.
I can only speak about the Turks I know personally. Many of whom are friends of my children. If they are playing this “long game” then they play it quite well. Do you have a personal experience of Muslim’s where you live? I’m just curious how they fit into your schools and society in general. Do they assimilate better or equally to the Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Indians? I guess the question is do you believe the US will amend it’s constitution on freedom of religion to prevent some people from practicing their religion?
In the long run, Moslems have no intention of assimilating anywhere. Until they have the numbers to assert supremacy, they “play along” as much as possible to avoid scrutiny. Dearborn, Michigan is not referred to as Dearbornistan for nothing. I don’t know the answer to your question because I don’t know how Islam will be viewed here when people who understand the ideology of Islam reach critical mass. People talk about Islam as though it were solely a religion, yet the religious portion makes up about 40%. The rest is political and social ideology, mainly geared to the mistreatment of non-Moslems. One can argue that Islam is seditious, and therefore can be banned, which is how I hope things turn out. Sharia is incompatible with our constitution, and with any civilization that wishes to remain free.
@ Kathleen – The issue of Sharia is a concern here too with the potential for a plural legal system. But banning religious freedom is a slippery slope. Who decides? I would think that anytime a religion infringes on basic human rights, we draw the line there whether it’s a religion or cult. I would agree if a bunch of lunatics want to drink Kool-Aid or have a particular dress code that’s one thing. It crosses the line with threats or actual harm to those who don’t go along with it.
@ Kathleen – The Muslim problem is not one of a people its a problem of ideology. You assume all Muslims act the same, everywhere, all the time. This is simply not the case. If it was, every Muslim everywhere would be running around performing a Jihad in accordance with the Koran. The fact is they don’t. Do you honestly believe every Muslim is just waiting for the chance to give up their western freedoms just to put on a Burka and go back to the stone age? Look at Iran in the 1970’s – all Muslims but all very western – until an extremist (Khomeini) showed up. People everywhere (even the average Muslim) just want to live their lives in peace.
Every religion and every political group has its extremists, some are just more dangerous than others. ISIS is the problem, not the average Muslim who’s running the local corner store or performing surgery at the community hospital. Every major religion has boasted they would dominate the world, the Communists did the same thing. Even Germany’s Austrian Chancellor talked about a 1,000 year Reich and we all know how that worked out.
Religion and politics are basically the same; they both use symbols to distinguish themselves from other groups, they require their followers to adhere to a basic creed, and they seek to control a population by enforcing their belief and value systems upon whom ever they can using violence if and when necessary. While the rest of the civilized world figured this out centuries ago, the Muslims are playing catch up. Fortunately, the west has “been there, done that” so we know how to deal with them by drawing from our own respective histories.
I’ve been telling you it’s the ideology. And all Moslems are required to follow it or risk being an apostate which can have dire consequences. Islam has been at this for 1400 years, they are not playing catchup, and the comparison to communism is meaningless except that they are both antithetical to free societies. No, I don’t believe that every Moslem wishes to don a burqa or strap on a suicide vest. Some are just cultural Moslems, some eventually convert to another religion, some become atheists.
Notice how there is no strong reform movement in Islam as nearly every other religion went through at one time or other. That is because Mohammed is seen as the perfect man and all Moslems must follow his example for all time. In Islam, the raised nail gets the hammer. Also, jihad is not only a call to commit violence. If certain Moslems find committing acts of violence abhorrent, they have other avenues open to them to participate in jihad. They can give money to groups that support the furtherance of Islam ideology, and they can immigrate to non-Moslem lands (known as Hijra) to spread the seeds of Islamic ideology. Moslimas can bear many Moslem children as their contribution to jihad. Jihad is the struggle against the infidel.
It is essential that non-Moslems understand the ideology of Islam and it’s very real threat to our free societies. Eventually, Islam brings barbarism and totalitarianism everywhere it goes. Why should we allow an ideology to flourish which seeks our destruction? The myth of the moderate Moslem will be our undoing if we are not careful. Image that I offer you a bowl of Skittles. Some of the Skittles have poison in them, yet I do not know which they are just by looking. Would you want to partake of those Skittles? My point is that there is no reason to take the chance. It doesn’t benefit our societies to have Moslems among us. Any non-citizens should be repatriated to their respective countries, while Moslems who are citizens already should be told in no uncertain terms that Sharia is banned here and they better find a way to assimilate.
Also, Karl, the Moslem Brotherhood has an actual written plan to undermine our society.
http://shariahthethreat.org/a-short-course-1-what-is-shariah/a-short-course-14-the-muslim-brotherhood’s-strategic-plan/
@ Kathleen –
“Notice how there is no strong reform movement in Islam as nearly every other religion went through at one time or other.” That’s because Islam is the youngest religion on earth. Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity all predate them by thousands and hundreds of years respectively. Christianity has had 2,000 years to change and has become the moderate religion we have today which is very different from what it was 500 or 1,000 years ago. Of course there will always be extremists like the Branch Davidians and others. And like Muslims there are plenty of Christians who don’t drink or play cards or allow their children to participate in various activities. On the other side of that coin, there are plenty of Christians who think nothing of having a beer at a BBQ or a poker party.
Islam has only had serious contact with the western (modern) world for the past 150-years. Prior to that, their cultures were just about equal with the west at least until the Industrial Revolution. In fact if Americans and Europeans were not in their countries for oil, they’d still be trading camels, goats and rugs to each other. I suspect they will have to go through a period of reform at some point. Just like Communism fell in Russia, and de-evolved in China, Islam is due for a reformation. It’s tried a few times, as I mentioned about Iran in the 1970’s. Unfortunately the most recent contact with the west has resulted in them getting drone-bombed with little means to retaliate. Which I believe is party to blame for the current situation of isolated acts of violence against the west.
I know there are passages in the Koran that state violence is encouraged against the infidel. And I know that ISIS, the Mulsim Brotherhood and other extreme Muslim groups are using these verses as justification to enact violence against both Muslims and non-Muslims. Given that there are an estimated 1.9 billion Muslims in the world, if even one percent of that number were seriously radicalized and followed every word of the Koran, I suspect there would be more people killed than the numbers that are being reported.
Why do Muslims, who follow the Koran, kill other Muslims who also follow the Koran? It’s counter productive. It’s the extremists who are the problem, not the average Muslim out doing his thing, raising his kids and getting on with life as best he can.
But let’s assume for sake of argument that there are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world. Of those, ISIS represents about 50,000 members (rough estimate). Even if we doubled that number to 100,000 hard core extremists running around the world chopping off heads and blowing up train stations, that is a pretty small threat to the rest of the world in real numbers. (100,000/1,900,000,000 = 0.00052%)
Consider that in 2011 there were 32,479 Americans killed in car accidents. That is more than the total number of people killed by terrorists in the past decade world wide. If the Muslims were really so radicalized that every one of the 1.9 billion (or even 1% of 1.9 billion) word of the Koran, I suspect the number of people being killed in America and everywhere else would be exponentially higher. Let’s take your Skittles example and apply that to the real risk of driving a car. Have you stopped driving yourself or your children knowing the risk of being killed is a reality? Of course not.
There are no absolutes in politics or religion. Extremists only appeal to the disenfranchised and those with a grudge against a society or government that has oppressed them in some way. Otherwise, people just want to be left alone to get on with their life.
Consider also that these 1.9 billion are not the top percent of anything in any of their societies where they live. They are generally the lowest and poorest and least educated. It’s why the largest number of Muslims in America are poor blacks and blacks in prison. They have nothing to lose, and they can justify their anti-everyone attitude under the guise of their newly found religion.
You’ve got some serious blinders on in regards to Islam. You are trying to apply what you know of other religions and extrapolate it to explain the failure of adherents of Islam to come into the modern world and reform themselves. Will they? Unlikely. The people who commit acts of violence to advance the aims of Islam are not extremists. They are following the very example of Mohammed, they are following the teachings of the Koran. They are soldiers for Allah. And in poll after poll done here in the US, a majority of Moslems say they would not personally commit acts of violence, they are not necessarily against it, and they support the imposition of Sharia, which isn’t going to be imposed without violence. Islam is wholly unlike any other religion, because again, Islam is a theocratic, totalitarian political system using the shield of religion to advance islam’s aims of world domination.
The largest numbers of Moslems in America are not black. Most of the black Moslems in our country are from Somalia. Moslems here are from all over the ME and parts of Asia. Your driving example is flawed because I am willing, as most people are, to take the risk that I might be injured or worse in a car accident because the risk is very small and the benefits far out way that small risk. And I also, due to my excellent driving skills, have a certain amount of control over mitigating that risk. It is a guaranteed certainty that Moslems will eventually commit acts of violence against non-Moslems. Knowing this, why would I want them here? Because there is absolutely nothing positive that they bring to the table of humanity as a culture or a society. There is zero benefit to letting them into our free and democratic societies.
The West cannot live with people who believe they must annihilate us or cause us to submit. We do not have the luxury of waiting around while Moslems decide whether they should reform Islam or not. The Third Jihad is underway.
Buddhism and Hinduism don’t (didn’t) need ‘reform’ movements. Christianity – esoteric Christianity – doesn’t either. Popular christianity? That’s a different matter. What has Zman called those? Evangelical militant industrial complex? But you have to admit that Christ’s teachings were underpinned by a reverence for ‘Love’. Interestingly, that comports with Buddhism and Hinduism. Just spitballin here, but it sure seems that Islam is the darkness the background of which makes the other Faiths appear as brilliant truth and beauty. People must choose.
@ Kathleen – And so did the Communists, the Fascists and the Nazis. Yet here we are.
Big difference: Islam is 1400 years old. Still going strong. Still slaughtering infidels.
Yes, in the hudna before jihad, one contributes through dawa, “soft war”.
Soldiers have always only been 10% or less of any national population.
You’d feel differently about Turkish Germans if the better of the soccer players on your national team weren’t of that descent!
@ Old Codger – Germans ancestry goes back more than 2,000 years. Not unlike the French and Brits (although most Brits came from here or up north originally so they are more like us than the French). The concept of “auslanders” is new to us. If you look at pictures of the French football teams from the 1940’s and today, there are hardly any ethnic Gauls on the French teams! 🙂
I wouldn’t place bets against California becoming effectively Mexican. The poorer, inland parts, anyway. Their white cloud people masters will be safely secluded on the coasts. And certainly the open-borders types want to turn Texas “blue,” i.e. Democrat-voting, by bringing in more Mexicans. No, I think there is a very real chance that these states, in part or in whole, become essentially Mexican.
VDH wrote a book on it: http://www.amazon.com/Mexifornia-Becoming-Victor-Davis-Hanson/dp/1893554732
Horst my man, you seem like a nice decent German, educated / brainwashed by your media into thinking that a nice easy-going approach will solve this. You unfortunately have very little idea of what Frau Merkel has planned for you. Did you know that she won the 2010 European Commission Coudenhove-Kalergi Preis and that this is part of the Coudehove-Kalergi Plan? Your liberalism is dangerously naive.
@ shirleyversace – I would welcome your side of the story of how 16-years of non-stop war in the Middle East has improved anything for anyone.
What’s with the downvotes? Chickensh*ts. Very informative, Karl Horst, thank you.
Not suddenly, no, but very surely. All in one generation. One more, and they will become autonomous or secede, in all but name, as they assert their place on the gravy train and in the Overseer hierarchy.
What’s the over/under on Karl recognizing his “character” in this post? 😛
I wouldn’t define myself by someone else’s opinion, especially with an article that starts with “Going by my own experiences” when I suspect his “own experiences” don’t include first hand knowledge and experience of all things German. It would be like me defining Americans by their stand on Mexicans or Blacks based on what I read, rather than what I have come to learn from people who live there. Now, if the article started with “Going by my own experiences after having lived in Germany for the past 10-years…” then we’d have something to debate other than just opinion. 🙂
Ha!! “That’s just, like, your opinion, man.”
(Love that logo. The feminine version is, “A great lover is good to you, and bad for you.”)
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“Nah, you just say Bingo!”
Bingo.
People who won’t fight to hold their land, deserve whatever happens to them.
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