Return of Heptarchy

We don’t know a lot of the British isles, prior to the Romans arriving. Archaeological and genetic evidence gives some broad outlines, but the details of daily life and the history of rulers and tribes is largely unknown to us. The best we can do is piece together some general ideas based on what has been dug from the earth and what the Romans recorded about what they found when they landed in Britain. There’s also genetics which can be used to trace the movement of peoples over time. This helps build a general picture, but it is filled with assumptions.

What we do know is that for most of her history, various tribes controlled areas of land and those tribes eventually formed kingdoms. The Picts, the Celts, the Welsh, the Angles and later, the Saxons, are familiar names to people fond of history. Similarly, Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria  and East Anglia probably ring some bells for most people. These were some of the kingdoms of the Heptarchy, a period in British history that lasted from the end of Roman rule until most of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms came under the overlordship of Egbert of Wessex in 829.

It’s useful to keep this in mind when looking at the changes that are coming to the UK if they follow through on the Brexit vote. The Scots are talking about independence again. The Welsh have been talking about independence for a while and may get serious about it again. Then you have the always difficult problem of the Irish. Membership in the EU was a disaster for the Irish in many ways, but they instinctively wish to go the opposite of whatever way the English are going so it is hard to know what happens with them. Then you have the Unionist issue, which is complicated in the best of times.

Whether any of this will come to pass is unknown at this point, but there’s no doubt that the UK is about to go through a period where it redefines itself to meet the world of the future. Those two great forces discussed in yesterday’s post are at work in the UK now. On the one hand, we have movements toward greater local control, even independence, and on the other hand we have a movement to fold the whole country into Europe as an administrative zone of Germany. For now, the smaller is better side is winning the argument, but how far it goes is up in the air.

The issue that lies beneath all of this is whether or not the United Kingdom as a concept is of much use in the modern world. A unified island made a lot of sense in an age when invasion was a reasonable concern. A divided squabbling people would not stand a chance against Norse raiders. The Continent has produced many threats that required a strong and unified Britain. Today, invasion is not a concern and the greatest threat from the Continent is a fresh batch of regulations that make flush toilets less efficient. It’s entirely plausible that the costs of being united outweigh the benefits.

Scotland voting themselves out of the UK is an obvious first step, but that may not be a great move on their part. The Scots remind me of the French-Canadians. They like waving flags around more than they like self-sufficiency. Similarly, the Welsh voted Brexit and seem to like being in partnership with the English. Preservation of local customs and language don’t require independence. The Scots and the Welsh would probably be happy with the symbolic parts of nationhood, but let the English run foreign policy, trade and the central bank, as long as they have a voice in Parliament.

The other side of this is the fact that the English may be tiring of the Scots. In the last two national elections a clear line exist between the Scots and the English. SNP is basically Labour with more Brave Heart references. The Scots vote for a populist left-wing party while the English are voting for what passes for a nationalist right-wing party now. UKIP in Scotland is a collection of fringe nuts, while in England it is a real party gently tugging the Tories back to where they belong on the Right. I bet more than a few English would like to vote the Scots out of the UK and be done with them.

Then we have the Irish. Currently, there is free movement between England, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Britain leaving the EU means a return of border controls to the UK and that means borders come back between Ireland and England. There’s also the fact that Norther Ireland voted heavily against leaving the EU and is making noises about gaining special EU status. That’s only possible if they are an independent country. How likely is it that Northern Ireland will follow the same path as the Scots and begin badgering for independence? How long before the English tire of them?

All of this is idle speculation, but the ground is shifting in the UK.

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Empty13
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Empty13

Scots have oil. Brits won’t let them go.

Piffle4Me
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Piffle4Me

Those are British investments and the Brits sill control the army. That was settled in the 18th century. The UK mad it absolutely clear during the last Scottish referendum that North Sea Oil did not 100% belong to the Scots. The Scots need the UK way more than the other way around.

Solomon Honeypickle, proud octaroon
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Solomon Honeypickle, proud octaroon

There is essentially no private economy in Shitland. People either collect benefits or work in social services, with not a lot in between. The Shits are a mongrel race and hardly worht discussing…

Piffle4Me
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Piffle4Me

It’s exactly like the French Canadians. Two things ended the seemingly endless calls for separation. First one was a clear path for exit with a very high (but fair) bar, not just 51% in a referendum with no exit plan. And during the last vote where Canadians said, sure leave but no, no union where you keep the protection of Canadian army and currency. You want independence, you got all of it. Separatists died totally as a cause when the politicians realized it wasn’t a path to Toronto doing all the heavy lifting while pretending independence. I’m convinced the Scots… Read more »

Dr. Mabuse
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I found this old Mark Steyn article from 10 years ago: http://www.agriville.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewThread.cgi?1132888927 It’s interesting how relevant it still is, and to the political situation in other countries too. I’d almost forgotten about André Boisclair, “a coked-up gay “party boy” routinely described as having ‘matinee idol looks'” who was the leader of the Parti Québecois, but he’s a perfect example of the frivolous nature of a lot of politicians. More relevant, though, is Steyn’s observation that a lot of other countries achieved independence since 1989 – Latvia, Slovakia, Slovenia – but for some reason Quebec couldn’t do it, despite having a… Read more »

Doug
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Doug

One thing is evident, the modern state is a system which is an unmitigated disaster. Less is more as far as the size of organized nation states sure looks like it’s time has come around again. The whole concept of the American Compact of Confederation has much going for it. It is interesting those who crafted the document called the USC stepped way outside the bounds of their mandate given to them by the CofC, and created the back door of administrative tyranny we dirt people are yoked with today. Patrick Henry and his brethren where very accurate in their… Read more »

LetsPlay
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LetsPlay

Amen Brother! I do, however, think differently about our founding documents. I think the Constitution and the Bill of Rights of the USA are some of the most beautifully conceived and written thoughts on liberty and God’s will in the heart of man. What happens though, through no fault of the authors is the never ending war between good and evil. Those elected leaders are human and the human weakness inherent in many, and unexposed until faced with money and power, does not surface until that weakness is tapped. Then the responsibility of containment becomes the duty of the citizens.… Read more »

Doug
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Doug

I hear what your saying, and have given the same much thought. There is a conundrum about it, it involves the concept between omission and commission. And in some things there is a chasms of difference between them. The evil perpetrated by those doing it certainly is mostly not possible without some sort of consent from those the evil is directed towards. I think it is just as important to understand the Fabian’s and their roots. Because if one thing that almost all of us have suffered is the revised history they have been responsible for. It is part and… Read more »

Dan Kurt
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Dan Kurt

re: Gary North

Remarkable output of mostly high quality analysis since the 1960s. However most of it has been Calvinist exegesis. His full court press, incorrectly in hindsight, about the Year 2000 computer problem damaged his reputation. People have long memories of a failure so he carries a tarnished reputation according to many. His continuing remarkable output has never stopped. Look for him on Lew Rockwell frequently vas well as his own site, just Gogle him.

Dan KurtTBnJG

Dan Kurt
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Dan Kurt

Addendum:

Google: Free Books Gary North. He gives away all (or most) of his books and dozens of his essays in e-format.

Dan Kurt

Doug
Guest
Doug

I think we are all in one way or another having to figure out a lot of things that have been lost. There just is no way North or probably anybody, but maybe for Jefferson and Henry and a couple little recognized people lost in infamy, who knew or now knows the answer. Skosen was correct I think in his insights that for the first time in 5000 years of recorded human history, more people have lived in Liberty, in the last 234 years, than in all of those 5000 years, than all the humans who have lived, including all the… Read more »

LetsPlay
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LetsPlay

Good stuff, thanks for the references.

FYI, the “True History of the American Revolution” is available in pdf for free download from the Internet Archive at https://archive.org/details/truehistoryofame00fishuoft

I know it’s only a buck, but … lots of good stuff available there for FREE!

I’ll have to put down my current reading, Philip Caputo’s “Acts of Faith” and check this out.

Doug
Guest
Doug

Oh Man your welcome, thanks for the tip on free. archive.org have a range of books aside from TTHOTAR? There is a awesome account and great primer for “The True History of The American Revolution”, ‘Ben Comee: A Tale of Rogers’s Rangers’: 1758-59https://www.amazon.com/Ben-Comee-Rogerss-Rangers-1758-59-ebook/dp/B01FRGO08Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467306927&sr=8-2&keywords=Ben+Comee (.99 cents), it is a primer in the sense that in relation to your comment above regarding the creation of the documents, had a true grass roots dirt people element that is overlooked, you see how the dirt people gestalt of the rights of men was born and grew out of 4th generation insurgency warfare of the… Read more »

John Hinds
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You people rant and rave but don’t fight. You’re like the warrior in the shield wall, banging away with your weapon the on the boss of your shield, clamouring for a fight, trying to find the courage to step forward a pace towards the enemy. Problem is, you aren’t hurting nearly enough; you’re not yet cornered, hungry enough, naked enough, bereft enough of dignity. Really, you eat their shit sandwich and ask for more – most of you. The overlords have your number, understand your limits. They might one day over reach – mandate, e.g., that they grope your children… Read more »

Karl Horst (Germany)
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Karl Horst (Germany)

@ John Hinds – I think you may have mistaken this blog for another one. You can find it here – https://twitter.com/ragingidiots

Soviet of Washington
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Soviet of Washington

John should go back and read one of the foundational documents a bit more closely if he thinks this is new:

“…accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”

John Hinds
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We conquered Germany then gave them their freedom. I stood in the ‘shield wall’ there but found the Germans to be quislings. You might hate Hitler – I do – but at least he knew how to take risks. That’s more than you can say for his (fitting) replacement. The pendulum swings, dudn’t it? I found the Germans to be, like the rest of the Euroweenies, ungrateful, resentful, selfish – its a long list. They don’t appreciate their heritage any more than we in the U.S. We stand on the backs of giants and piss in their mouths. Geothe’s Faust… Read more »

Doug
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Doug

“You people”? That’s a dead giveaway John Hinds. Let me ask you how that your talking about is working for you since your admonishing us people? Sincerely, I think you mistake dignity of liberty, and of the dirt people for subservience, dignity being something I’m honored to say is in abundance on Z’s blog. But there for the grace of God many of us may go John. I’m no serf, and I see no other serfs here. I see strong thoughtful considerate people who have a genuine care for what is going on, and all seem dearly involved in trying… Read more »

John Hinds
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I don’t apologize. Neither do I tend towards ad hominem attacks. Actually, I like your comments here. Most of us aren’t interested in the Truth as much as being validated in our thoughts, our existence. I think you are one who loves Truth. So, how bout this, Doug:. We can suffer outrageous fortune as we strut and fret our way on life’s stage but that only promotes/encourages the outrageous. It’s only when, finally, we’re driven to take up arms and by real opposition find a good end that we win and they lose. A valid point made here is the… Read more »

Doug
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Doug

LP, I can’t help but be moved by your heart felt comments. I’m moved by yours to express my most heart felt sense of things. A guy name of aka John Mosby wrote this below. It speaks to something that cuts to the chase. That secession from tyrants and what they are doing is a matter of the heart and mind, as it is action. Secession of the heart is withdrawal of consent, and that secession is existential and 100% defensible from those out to deny us our freedoms. That withdrawal of consent, or giving it freely with full grasp… Read more »

Dan Kurt
Member
Dan Kurt

Doug get an editor.

Dan Kurt

LetsPlay
Member
LetsPlay

First off, nice work on the writing and use of paragraphs to make it easier to parse your thoughts! Much appreciated. Secondly, I keep going back to the Founding Documents as simply those “documents” that encapsulate basically the same thoughts that you, John Mosby, Gary North, and others including myself consider a natural fact. I don’t know why people hold them in such disrepute. Nothing the libs, socialists, or any other fascist mofo say or do can change the basic nature of man and our natural God given rights. I only marvel at the simplicity and beauty of the way… Read more »

Doug
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Doug

As you say, the entire reason for governments existence now is for TBTF. It’s sole function now is to survive it’s illegitimacy. It abandoned it’s mandate of will of the governed and consent of the dirt people. That can only be so if virtually every actor of the state goes along and or enables this abandonment of consent for it. It must be so, for how could it be anything else? Where the state manages to survive is the almost incomprehensible thought of life without a state so many just can’t wrap their heads around, it horrifies them, it’s Impossible!… Read more »

Thomas Allen
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Thomas Allen

Doug, I like what you say. But for the Love of Mike, Use some paragraphs. The word salad you write is just one dense block of wordy prose. Indent. Line Break. Something. I agree with much of what you’ve said, but please make it easier to digest. Thanks.

Kyle
Guest

Ditto… Been wanting to say the same for a while!

Doug
Guest
Doug

OK, thanks for the constructive criticism. I have a terrible case of dyslexia, not trying to make excuses, but I have serious trouble with those concepts of construction. I kind of have to just write as the words form. Sincerely, my apologies to you if it is aggravating. I’ll try to be more conscious of things. It is splendid to be able to share thoughts with you all, great bunch of people here, lots of real good thinking. Inspiring and enlightening.

Wilbur Hassenfus
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Wilbur Hassenfus

I’ll believe Brexot actually happens after it’s implemented. The rulers over there aren’t in the habit of letting the dirt people interfere with business.

Fuel Filter
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Fuel Filter

“…the greatest threat from the Continent is a fresh batch of regulations that make flush toilets less efficient.” I get what you’re saying (tea kettles, toasters, BTW, did you know there are more than 60 regs governing fucking PILLOWCASES?!?) but I gotta strongly disagree with you on that statement. By far the greatest threat are the moslum cockroaches infesting the island. They undermine the livelihoods of the dirt people, the educational system (read up on the “Trojan Horse” scandal that Michael Gove rooted out, much to the chagrin of those snakes Cameron and May) the safety of children (Rotherham and… Read more »

Dutch
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Dutch

I go with Fuel Filter on this one. The open borders have created a Muslim invasion, not much different than the Vikings back in the day. I would guess many more Leavers voted on the issue of open borders than about any other matter. Now that parts of the country are Islamized, dealing with it may not be a regulatory issue any more, but rather a hand-to-hand battle, day by day and block by block. These people are cutting off heads in the street, raping children, and blowing up the Underground. Regulations will not change the status quo, such as… Read more »

Doug
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Doug

That’s it in a nutshell Filter, the whole point of the state is to makes laws so you outlaw anything that gets in the way of the take or increases your share from the extortion racket for you and your buddy’s.

Karl Horst (Germany)
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Karl Horst (Germany)

@ Fuel Filter – In the US you have various safety and engineering standards such as OSHA, ASME, ANSI, UL and others which have been normalized with CSA (Canada). If you look at TUV or DIN (German) SAI (Swiss) and BSI (British) standards, you will find they are not always the same. From the perspective of raw materials, steel is a good example as there are different types in the UK, Germany and America and they not all the same. Part of the EU charter was to harmonize all these regulations. This is one reason why you see 60 regulations… Read more »

jay dee
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“harmonization of industrial and commercial standards …………….”

Heck, even I see that as vital, and I can’t count past 10 without taking off my socks and shoes.

PJ O’Rourke had a good bit on 220V long ago…….about how you couldn’t plug something in without first putting on rubber boots…..lol

Karl Horst (Germany)
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Karl Horst (Germany)

@ jay dee – “…I can’t count past 10 without taking off my socks and shoes”. I guess all those things they say about how bad American schools are is completely unfounded. 😉

Karl Horst (Germany)
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Karl Horst (Germany)

Ireland and Scotland aren’t going anywhere. They have traditionally been, and for the most part remain poor countries dependent upon the greater economy generated by trade with the British. One only need drive around Ireland, which is roughly twice the size of Switzerland but with less than half the population (4.5 million vs. 8.1 million respectfully) to appreciate the reality of the Emerald Isle. Unlike Britain, Ireland has a devastating history which has kept the island poor and depopulated to this day. The Irish economy is not tied to the land, and technology, as the Irish are quickly learning, can… Read more »

Fuel Filter
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Fuel Filter

“What made Great Brittan so powerful so quickly was that it learned to rule as market nation which ignored borders and put diversity to work.” Bullshit. What made Britain (watch your spelling) so powerful was: a) it was a democracy. b) it brought actual *civilization* to decidedly *uncivilized” parts of the world. c) it was an industrial and intellectual powerhouse long before another nations were. “Diversity”? You on that hobbyhorse again? Ever hear the story of how the Brits stopped cold the Indian practice of sutee? Some Indians were about to enforce that abominable practice and a British officer tried… Read more »

Karl Horst (Germany)
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Karl Horst (Germany)

@ Fuel Filter – I’m pretty sure England, under King George III, was not as democratic as we know it today- thus the need for your Declaration of Independence. What I mean by Britain (thank you for the spelling check) being able to deal with diversity is from the perspective that they were able to successfully capitalize in foreign countries, which had ethnic and religiously diverse populations, without the need for military invasion and large scale war as was common across the rest of Europe. I’m not saying they did it peacefully, but they did a much better job than… Read more »

Tom Saunders
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Tom Saunders

Actually the U.K. was the most democratic nation state in the world in the latter 18th century, with the possible exception of the Swiss. All of the grievances listed in the Declaration of Independence were products of Parliament. The Continental Congress wanted to garner support in the English population while increasing the fervor for independence in the Colonies. The King lay outside both groups and, as head of State, an easy target to fix and demonize (Alynski wasn’t really all that smart, certainly not on the same level as Hoffer, but effectively distilled obvious political agitation lessons from history. Alynski… Read more »

Karl Horst (Germany)
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Karl Horst (Germany)

@ Tom Saunders – Interesting read. Thank you.

Saml Adams
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Saml Adams

Actually the little tiff between Charles I and Cromwell’s gang, re-ordered the relationship between the Crown and Parliament permanently, despite the Restoration. And with the balance of power permanently in Parliament’s hands. The issue was really the extension of those rights to colonial America as the colonies became economic powers of their own. The oft forgotten Galloway Plan of Union (one of my ancestors, actually) did propose a re-ordering of that relationship and was narrowly defeated in the First Continental Congress. As is the case with success, the British did not really think through the political ramifications of a wildly… Read more »

Saml Adams
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Saml Adams

Pretty much anybody with ambition simply left Scotland. It’s scenic, still makes great whisky, but otherwise not much to offer. Full disclosure, all my ancestors on one side were Lowland and Highland Scots. The former deported first to Northern Ireland to mix it up with the locals thence to the New World, when they became too troublesome there. But what you have left is the genetic equivalent of No. 6 fuel oil. They just need a teat to remain fastened to and are not too particular about whose teat.

UKer
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UKer

For whatever reason in the past, Britain tended to work (literally) as an entity despite some strong differences. Many things have been cited as reasons in that Britain avoided some of the bloody revolutions of other countries which merely set those nations back in their haste to declare freedom, another was the success of the Industrial revolution and harnessing alongside that with the clout it could gain through a well-drilled navy and established legal system, and the relative smoothness of succession to the throne which — wars of the roses and Cromwell apart — which guaranteed less upheaval that might… Read more »

Aggie
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Aggie

Having never shopped there, I know very little of the British aisles. 🙂

Although the Scots psyche is often portrayed on the premise of rugged, strong-minded and scrappy individualists, the concept of Big Government is deeply ingrained in their identity. A Brit co-worker told me last week that he anticipated the post-Brexit reaction we have seen regarding a do-over for Independance – in the English / Welsh states, the ratio of private / public sector employees is about 10:1. In Scotland, it’s closer to 4:1.

Saml Adams
Guest
Saml Adams

That is the Scottish psyche. Those with it simply self-deported (or were deported to serve as “a useful buffer against the wilde red men” on the colonial frontier. The remainder….not so much.

Ivar
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Ivar

My English friends tell me that if English people had been allowed to vote in the Scottish referendum, Scotland would have been long gone.

UKer
Guest
UKer

Quite right, Ivar. We English would have voted for them to bugger off because we are somewhat sick of Scotland ranting about independence after that historical chap called Mel Gibson inspiring them all to wear blue make-up. They can keep their deep-fried Mars bars.

bob sykes
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bob sykes

The EU’s mere existence undermines the legitimacy of all the national governments in its confines. Every European country has the potential to split into smaller ethnic fragments. Both France and Spain could lose their Basques regions, and the Spanish Catalan region spreads into France, too. Then there is Corsica and Brittany, northern Italy and Sicily, Bavaria, etc. etc.

Karl Horst (Germany)
Guest
Karl Horst (Germany)

@ bob sykes – As thezman pointed out, Texas has the economic ability to stand on its own and I would probably argue Bavaria could too. However these small, fragmented areas of Spain and France you mention wouldn’t last very long on their own. Having said that, there are two tiny countries over here that I can think of that have shown it can be done; Andorra (between France and Spain) and San Marino (in eastern Italy) which are fully independent, but really function as nothing more than tax free zones and tourist attractions.

Tom Saunders
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Tom Saunders

I wonder if what is taking place is what McLuhan predicted in “Medium is the Message”. His argued that our current society is textual based and postulated that, as the world became more saturated with video media (he was specifically addressing TV but all video falls into his rubric) and progressively less textual, pressure would build across humanity for a return to tribalism. As someone above has pointed out this urge to ethnic/cultural/political separateness is not confined to Northern Europe. Brexit has everyone’s attention but it seems to be a worldwide phenomenon. I see a wide variety of justifications for… Read more »

Jim O\'Neil
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Just minor typo note; 1st sentence British Isles, no aisles.

Doug
Guest
Doug

Jim, are you the Jim O\’Neil of Canadian Free Press fame?

Jim O\'Neil
Guest

No Doug, I wasn’t aware of him until I read your Query. However he’s one of the few O’Neil’s who spells his name right, with only one ‘L’. 😉 Thanks for pointing him out, I’m reading his ‘The Islamification of America, and the Emasculation of the U.S. Military’ right now

Jim O\'Neil
Guest

OOPS! I double checked and he uses two ‘Ls’ to spell O’Neill, oh well.

John
Guest

Odd, but I thought that invasion was the whole reason for the ‘troubles’ the Brits are having now?