The Future of White Nationalism

At American Renaissance, I was introduced to an old guy from VDare, who seemed to experience the world strictly through the search functions of his phone. Someone told him about my site and the first thing he did was search for the site name and “white nationalism” to see if I had opinions on the subject. His first hit was a post where I called white nationalism the dumbest thing going. He tried giving me the business about it and I gave it right back to him. I will forever be off the VDare Solstice card list as a result.

In fairness to him, he was a good sport about it. In fairness to me, my criticism of white nationalism is mostly about aesthetics. The term is not a new one. That means it comes with baggage and that baggage is not easily overcome. When most Americans hear “white nationalism” they think of snaggle-toothed rustics, wearing wife beaters and jorts, complaining about the coloreds. Getting modern whites to overcome the cult of anti-racism is hard under ideal conditions. Having Cletus as your sales rep makes it impossible.

That’s something the white identity people need to accept. For generations, Progressives have tightly associated racism with the South. The good white/bad white thing that John Derbyshire discusses is based entirely on this image. Bad whites shop at Walmart, like domestic beer and hate black people. Despite the fact that blacks have been moving back to the Old Confederacy for decades, black culture holds that the South is still aggressively racist. It’s at the core of the statue toppling and confederate flag burning manias.

Even if you can somehow get past the image problem, white nationalism is not some new concept developed by the alt-right. It has a history and it has a lot of veterans of its prior iterations. Those people are still kicking around. The web site Storm Front, in addition to being an FBI honey trap, is the home of the old White Nationalist guys, who used to follow guys like David Duke. If you borrow the language and symbols of these guys, you are inviting them and their ideas into your new version of white nationalism.

There are two problems with this. One is many of these guys were not the best people or the most stable people. Stepping way outside the moral framework is never easy, but it is a lot easier if you’re crazy. It’s also easier if you have nutty ideas that no one takes too seriously. Even the most generous evaluation of White Nationalism 1.0 says it was mostly a reaction to the cultural revolution of the 1960’s. It never came up with a plausible way forward politically or culturally. It was mostly old racists who just liked to complain.

Again, even if you manage to rehabilitate the language and symbols, you can’t get past the fact that prior efforts were a failure. A pretty good rule of life is that failure is assured if you follow in the footsteps of previous failures. It’s why adopting Nazi symbols is stupid. The Third Reich was most notable for being a disastrous failure. Associating your thing with failure is just bad marketing. It also tends to attract people who find some sort of satisfaction in losing. New Movements need need language and new symbols.

Putting all of that aside, prior iterations of white nationalism always suffered from the fact they were reactionary. At their very best, they could only offer a critique of the prevailing order. They had nothing to offer as an alternative, beyond demands to wind the clock backwards. Reactionary movements always fail in the long run for the simple reason that yesterday can never follow tomorrow. Even if everyone agrees the current arrangements are not working, what comes next is never a return to the old order.

There’s something else that prior white nationalists movements never got right. They assumed that a majority white nation was a given. If they could just get a majority of whites on their side, they would win the political battles over race. America is 70% white at the last census and will be majority-minority in a few decades. The issue today is not about keeping America white. That horse has left the barn. The question before us today is how whites will survive as a minority population in a majority-minority country.

That means the math is not about 50% plus one. Whatever comes to define white identity in the age of identity politics will have to appeal to and serve the interests of the vast majority of whites. That can’t just be a visceral hatred of non-whites. Whites in America are mostly from west of the Hajnal line, which means low clannishness. Old fashioned tribal signalling against the next tribe is not going to work. What comes next has to be an ideology that promotes a positive identity offering a promising future.

That’s probably the most encouraging thing to come out of the Charlottesville protest over the summer. The people involved began to appreciate the need to build new symbols and use new language. Even guys like Andrew Anglin are pushing his people to drop the Hitler images, beyond obviously satirical stuff. Mockery of taboos and irreverence for social norms has a place, but it can’t be the focus of a political movement, if it is going to draw in the skeptical. The white identity people seem to get that now.

The irony here is the New Left went through a similar problem. Before they were able to start the cultural revolution, they existed as an ad hoc counter-culture. The old commies from the CP-USA days tried to glom onto it, but the new radicals correctly saw that as a bad idea. They eventually purged their ranks of the old guys and their old ideas. Now, the cultural movement that seeks to destroy the New Left and the Baby Boomer culture is going through a similar process as it organizes itself.

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Severian
Guest
“Associating your thing with failure is just bad marketing.” Here’s where Americans’ breathtaking ignorance of history is a real advantage. Call Fascism “the Chinese model,” for example, and you can get people to think about what it actually is, what policies it entails, etc. (If you say “China sure looks like Fascism,” though, they give you a blank look and say “But the Chinese aren’t gassing Jews!” This is what you get when your society only knows history via Call of Duty games, but I digress). The “white nationalist” people would be smart to push every single clause in the… Read more »
Member
Hard to disagree with. Despite the grossness of his satire Anglin gets it. My approach has been to be as accepting of WN’s as possible and not talk down. The hope is that they will do some footwork for the new right, with the knowledge that punching right is counterproductive. Your calculus seems to be that these people are such a small minority as to be both numerically and tactically insignificant so purging is OK. The problem I have with your approach is one of empathy, I guess. The left doesn’t care how moderate one is. When you look back… Read more »
Severian
Guest

On the other hand, it might be as simple as calling it “The Reality Movement.” Most people are already sick to death of professors, 30 year old college kids, actors, and other cosplayers who’ve never held a real job ordering us to ignore the evidence of our own lying eyes. These days, acknowledging the bum-poundingly obvious is rebellious and edgy. “Get with the real world… you know you want to. All the cool kids are doing it.” Find a photogenic James Dean type to push it, and you’re good.

Dennis L
Guest

I like that. The left had a lot of fun calling themselves the “reality based community” during the Bush years. Their problem was they were in a non-reality based bubble.

cerulean
Guest

Leading up to the last election, some of the campaign material I saw referred to civil rights being for all people. Taken as a whole, it pretty much implied that the goal was for the law to be color-blind. Perhaps I read too much into it, but that’s how it struck me.

While this color-blind business might not satisfy some people here, I thought it was a great idea. Interesting that this approach did not need to give itself a name in addressing the public.

wondering
Guest

There ya go. Just what I was thinking when I saw a headline the other day “How can we convince Trump voters they elected a lemon”? It was like “How can we convince people who know what they wanted and what they didn’t want — and voted that way — to disbelieve what they’re watching and swallow our propaganda instead? “The reality movement is what got DT elected and why McCain, Corker, and Flake were upset enough to give their crude and vulgar “politics is so crude and vulgar” speeches this week.

D&D Dave in the Bubble
Guest
D&D Dave in the Bubble
“Mockery of taboos and irreverence for social norms has a place, but it can’t be the focus of a political movement, if it is going to draw in the skeptical. The white identity people seem to get that now.” So does the leftist movement. If there is an event without that taboo symbol, pay for a stooge or two to carry them into the rally. Much like they did when the Tea Party era started. The left would pay for a few guys to show up with offensive signs or T-shirts and make their way to their comrades, the state… Read more »
Dennis L
Guest

“Once the opposition is gone, they will be first to go, not realizing their skin too is white and that the beast must fed.” The left is too caught up in their virtue signaling to care. Just as they can embrace gays, feminism and muslims, with caring about how that ends.

Member
The question before us today is how whites will survive as a minority population in a majority-minority country. Sad but true. You know, even when I was growing up lo these many years ago, I used to think, “Okay, there’s a Black Congressional Caucus and Hispanic one, so why shouldn’t there be a White one?” Also, I would say that other people got to be Polish-American or German-American or whatever, but given my British background, I was just a “plain-old American”. That is, there was no such thing as, say, “English-American” or even “Scottish-American” because people like that just blended… Read more »
james wilson
Guest

All you need to do is look at countries where whites are a minority to see that American whites will not remain the same. The smaller the plurality, the bolder they become. In Mexico they are not even a plurality but a small minority, and they rule government, academia, and and media of every sort. Sound familiar? Heh.

Duke of Deploraville
Guest

What are jorts?

Anyway, can there not be a white nationalism without the redneck and Nazi associations? A non-crackpot white nationalism?

You make some good points about avoiding offensive symbolism, but the defeatism (“The issue today is not about keeping America white. That horse has left the barn”) here is disturbing.

Who says reaction is always doomed to failure? If that were so the Soviet Union would still be in business.

Ivan
Guest

Well white nationalism will never work with faggots like Richard Spencer. And by faggot I mean someone who is individually and only strong collectively. Faggot as a homosexual slur is a misappropriated term as a faggot is a bundle of sticks.

White nationalism would require an ethos of masculine men capable of giving rousing speeches while standing in front of a podium shirtless. The type of man that young men look up to and reflexively call “Sir”.

Bunny
Guest
Ryan T
Guest

I go back and forth between “yes we need to band together and fight the poz!” and “why bother working on a patient that clearly doesnt want to live?”

It becomes understandable why many choose to plug back into the matrix.

Tim of Mt Pleasant
Guest

Like you pointed out in the other post, LA is an excellent test case. What are whites and Hispanic whites doing there? From what I can tell, they self segregate, like all the other racial groups do. The SWPLs of course talk diversity but most of them hole up within 2 miles of the coast, or Silver Lake.

Member

I recently moved to The Netherlands and have been traveling around and talking to a lot of people. The term white nationalism would be extremely uncouth to utter here. But European nationalism? That’s not just perfectly acceptable but viewed with much positivity and affection.

ronehjr
Guest

It has been disappointing to see the TRS guys be almost completely co-opted by the WN crowd, even treating David Duke like he is still relevant. I expected more from them.
Do you think going with more of a christo-european identity is plausible, or do you think the different european ethnicities will never coalesce and christianity cannot be resurrected in this country. Because if that is the case, we are probably doomed, because I think we need both blood and religion, and it is unlikely we can come up with a decent replacement for christianity on such short notice.

Glen Filthie
Guest

I am trying to envision white survival in a minority situation and all I see are race wars looming. Trying to figure out how that 5-way pie fight will shake out is a daunting task too.

Blacks pretty much universally hate whites. Browns from the arab world do too. Asians are about 50/50 for and against. Can’t comment on Hispanics as I haven’t met enough.

However it shakes out, I don’t see peaceful coexistence happening.

Member

The Asians will end up going with us because they will be rejected and mistreated by the others. You can take that to the bank.

PRCD
Guest

Asians loosely see us as people in decline but recall all the white people in their math books. We can work with them. Consider also that they have money – lots of it – and can’t see supporting everyone else with it.

james wilson
Guest

Why do you think blacks hate whites and not hispanics, who have zero affection for blacks? Because they know if you fuck with hispanics there is a likelihood they will fuck you back plus some. The attitudes of 48% a white America will not be the same as what exists now–a sign saying kick me. Leaving marginal groups without a firm hand does greater damage to them by far than overt hostility, which actually has many benefits.

Ivan
Guest

Precisely, it is human nature to gang up on the weak. And White Europeans have been willingly emasculated and apologizing for themselves for 50 years.

One wonders why we have this ideology engrained in us as it certainly isn’t genetic. Ever heard of the Vandals, Veringians, or Vikings?

Obviously the answer is Christianity. It is an ideology of matriarchal supremacy. Go ahead and downvote me I know you want to, and you know I’m right.

Ryan
Guest

It’s odd to blame Christianity for events that coincided with the disappearance of Christianity among our leaders. It makes more sense to blame the shallow pseudo-religion of the progressives which has replaced the old faith.

Caleo
Guest

Exactly. Progressivism is a late stage Christian heresy. Progressivism fills the role that a real life grounded in family, community and faith used to have for most whites until WWII.

Stonehands
Guest

Actually you have rejected the God of the Bible for last 50 years and your Father Satan has filled the void, tough guy.

PRCD
Guest

Father, Son and Holy Spirit = matriarchal? Were Jesus or any of the apostles women?

The peoples you mentioned all liked to fight and were good at it but that’s not the same as having a civilization.

Karl McHungus
Guest

blacks don’t get along with anyone else, nor do they get along with each other. as has been stated here before, the Mexicans are pushing the nigs back into the south from almost all corners of the US. here in socal, each group has their own towns/cities so everyone pretty much gets along. as for muslims, send them all back,

Member
The first and most easily realized achievement that will gain widespread support is dismantling the Prog money machines and racial preference scams. The support for those programs decreases every time BLM protests, and every time yet another lefty professor tweets. If we don’t take them out now, while whites are still in the majority, they will never be taken out – the other races will use the ‘historical oppression’ cudgel against my great grandchildren because it will still be on the books and in their interest to do so. After that, we’ll have a chance to get politicians who speak… Read more »
Member
The real conflict is between the post-national oligarchs and the rest of the population. That’s because the interests of the oligarchs and the interests of the population are in conflict. The tactic of the oligarchs is to divide the population in order to conquer it. Thus they create black lives matter to stir up the black people, for example, to take advantage of racial division. Embracing ‘white nationalism’, which is as practical as it is popular, is playing right into their hands. It’s a way to let the more excitable part of the population burn their energy on something pointless… Read more »
Dutch
Guest
Its just going to need to go for the whites like it does the others. In my field, people walk around in suits and do financial desk work. The black guys in suits, when they see each other getting on elevators or walking through the building lobby, give a bit of a smile or a nod to each other. They are in a little club. If the world is going tribal, the white guys will start to openly identify with their own club too. Outside of that, and finance is only merit-based to a point, as so much of success… Read more »
Ursula
Guest

Uh-oh.

comment image

Alzaebo
Guest

I wonder what the stats show in hiring for bureaucracies, or such as the teachers unions. Or in LGBT preference.

An Overseer class, lethally protective of their privileges.

We will be ruled by the freaks and stupids.

Member

You both are right. The med schools discriminate against white men and private practices prefer to hire them. The result is that there are not enough to go around. Therefore you have the big organizations that need a body to fill a slot inevitably filling it with minorities, women, or foreigners.

PRCD
Guest

IOW, we’re all going to pay more for competent doctors because of the gatekeepers

Ursula
Guest

From what I’ve read, med school admissions have been politicized even beyond affirmative action requirements and therefore weaponized (against whites and asians) and compromised. It’ll be scary going to the doctor in this country in the near future. (Even scarier than our industrial corporate medical system already is.)

wondering
Guest

Haven’ heard of it being taken out…The ACA had requirements — quotas — in it — to get gov. funds, med schools, research centers,hospitals, etc., had to have the right number of blacks.

Member

You can still find good ones. Just try to stay out of hospitals and emergency rooms.

Bill Robbins
Guest

I do not find “white nationalism” to be an apt descriptor of what goes on in the United States. White Americans have always viewed themselves as patriotic, not nationalistic. Patriotism has been the rallying sentiment of white Americans since the Revolutionary War. America has never had a “nationalist” movement. Nationalism is a foreign sentiment.

Ursula
Guest

I think you’re right and this nationalism is a new thing for us, brought on by the 10s of millions of immigrants whose presence is being felt by adversely impacted citizens of European ancestry. It’s emerging from the sentiment of being displaced and replaced, of becoming the unwanted Other in the very country our ancestors built. Part of this new nationalism is the desire to reclaim and cultivate our European-American tradition and heritage that is now being replaced by Latino, African, and Middle-Eastern cultures, many incompatible with our Euro Christian culture.

wondering
Guest

That and the fact that we are openly disagreeing with the open borders crowd. That’s why “nationalism” has to be used now. It opposes globalism.

Member
You may be making a better point than you even know. Most historians believe that nationalism got its start in the French Revolution. To a certain extent it was a result of the centralized administration of the Ancien Regime. In his pamphlet on the Third Estate Abbe Sieyes refers not to the countries that made up France, but the nation as a whole. The thinking started with the king. So it seemed natural for those who took over after the king to think of a unitary state. The federalist program of the later Girondists was seen as an attempt to… Read more »
Rod1963
Guest
Excellent article. Image is indeed most important in selling a product. And we are selling a product to be sure. First off we need to consider the market segment that gives the biggest bang for the buck in terms of numbers. I’d say that would be blue collars and middle-class in the rust belt, mid-west and the sun-belt. I don’t think we’ll have much success with the upper class whites since they tend to be isolated from all the shit they promote or ignore. Secondly what are we trying to sell them? For the life of me I have no… Read more »
Alzaebo
Guest

In Israel, 18 year olds serve in the military BEFORE they go to college. Another idea.

YIH
Guest

Israel has a one year mandatory service in the IDF. The problem with any ”draft reinstatement” is the fact that IMHO about 2/3 of the general population would be summarily rejected for the military. Drugs for one, they’ve been doing the whiz quiz for 40 years now, flunk and out.

Alzaebo
Guest

When we drank, smoked, drugged, slugged, and ate fat, we deplorably built the modern world.

Someday the Elfin Safety of the workers will mean we will do nothing at all- so we need Mexicans and Somalis to do it.
We just don’t measure up, why try?

Alex
Guest

This is probably the most useful/powerful sentiment on this blog:

“Reactionary movements always fail in the long run for the simple reason that yesterday can never follow tomorrow. Even if everyone agrees the current arrangements are not working, what comes next is never a return to the old order.”

We forget often that this is a new thing, and because we’ve been told certain stories/morality plays for so long now, it is easy to fall into the trap of more of the same. All the while, time is ticking away…

TomA
Guest

Since you’re on the topic of terminology that is counterproductive, I would like to add the use of the term “white” to describe the Caucasian race. Not even albinos are “white”, and virtually all of us are variations of beige shading and color tone. We vary from the nominal paleness of the Scandinavians to the olive skin tone of the Mediterranean peoples. And what distinguishes our race is not our color per se, but our superior adaption to climate extremes.

Karl McHungus
Guest

People of Moderate Color

wondering
Guest

What is “baby boomer culture”?? Pretty broad segment of the population with experiences and backgrounds from A to Z is hardly a culture. Is it Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump? Bernie Sanders or Ben Carson? James Woods or Harvey Weinstein? Rahm Emmanuel or Thomas Sowell? David Limbaugh or Gloria Steinem?

Member
Things are never as bad or as they seem. Positive things to note: Jeff Flake has joined Corker in the “Jig is Up” club. Beating that Strange guy in AL had consequences. Not every seat will stay GOP, but since the point of all this is to destroy the GOP, this matters not. I suspect that white nationalism will simply merge with regular old nationalism, which redounds to the benefit of all. I suspect other forms of black and Hispanic nationalism will lose steam. The former because they’re gonna get swamped by the latter, and because many of the latter… Read more »
sirlancelot
Guest
In order to sell something you need advertising. Unfortunately the left has all that media sewn up. There is a willing audience ready to buy the product. The empty football stadiums prove that. Whites are finally fed up with the propaganda , but won’t come out of the darkness until they see positive coverage of white nationalism on TV. The media is owned by that “certain group ” and they will never stop the evil whitey narrative even as they continue to lose money. Which is strange. Ever since I can remember money has always been their God. it seems… Read more »
Rod1963
Guest

TV is a dying media format. Most young people get their videos off the net and don’t rely on cable, etc. It;’s mostly for older people and the dumb. Doubt it? Look at the commercials on FoxNews – all aimed at old people.

Trump figured that out. He relied on tweets, rallies and youtube videos to get the word out.

IOW we don’t need the media, besides it was always a gatekeeper for the elite and it would never ever give us or Trump a fair shake.

Go around around it and use the new media venues.

Julius izard
Guest
How far do you think satire should go and where should it stop? There’s no doubt that Anglin’s shtick and the memes of Trump in a Wehrmacht uniform gassing journalists had a very broad appeal, probably because such total disregard for the taboos was refreshing. Maybe we have wrecked existing taboos so thoroughly that this kind of stuff is no longer necessary? Maybe continuing is overkill and mean spirited? I think most of us know what Anglin was up to, same with Sam Hyde. Seeing someone just honestly let go of those restraints was obviously an attractive spectacle, Hyde’s ratings… Read more »
PropagandaHacker
Guest

How about just breaking up america? Let each state go its own way to a great extent?

Karl McHungus
Guest
“And we are selling a product to be sure” <= wrong I see we are back to the "better marketing" approach for building a political movement. Sigh. It's not about words, it's not about manipulating people into joining, like you are AARP. Form follows function; what is the function of a white nationalist party? What is its purpose? To organize white individuals into a cohesive political *and* cultural group. Why? To survive in a sea of non-white peoples. Why haven't the mass of white people done this already? Because they are not scared. Or they are scared but think siding… Read more »
Ivan
Guest

I couldn’t agree more. Restoration will never get off the ground if it’s just about skin color (which is just a marker for a generalized genetic/culture feedback loop). Homo sapiens naturally diverge into different races because we have different spirits and evolutionary paths. This is why mixed race people are so troubled because they are torn between two disparate developmental paths.

The European man’s spirit is righteous exploration. We must embody those principles or our spirit will languish and perish like it’s been doing.

Mr. Frosty
Guest
“A pretty good rule of life is that failure is assured if you follow in the footsteps of previous failures. It’s why adopting Nazi symbols is stupid. The Third Reich was most notable for being a disastrous failure. Associating your thing with failure is just bad marketing.” So, Dixie is stupid? The Confederates failed, so piss on the battle flag? You don’t believe this, so that statement was just a way justifying your personal preference. The truth is, it’s not what you’re selling as much as how you’re selling it. A good car salesman sells a lot of crappy cars.… Read more »
armenia4ever
Guest
The future of WN is dead as long as its current contingent are at the reins. Guys like J Taylor at least have a framework – one I don’t think is possible or necessarily practical – but he’s done some legwork. The rest of these master tacticians couldn’t see past using nazi memes to trigger people and firmly associate themselves with one thing that most Americans see as very bad. They also can’t seem to realize the utter futility of “race” over ideology in terms of what any of us on the dissident right have in common with white coastal… Read more »
bruce galbreath
Guest

“Even if everyone agrees the current arrangements are not working, what comes next is never a return to the old order.”

Arguable counter-examples: the restoration of the Bourbon monarchy in France 1815-1830 and the current restoration of the Spanish monarchy. Different from the past regimes, but connected enough to count as returns to the old order.

bruce galbreath
Guest
Margaret Sanger, whatever else she was, was a white woman. She promoted reproductive choice for women and basically founded planned parenthood. She really believed that such choices should be available to any woman who wanted them. But she also believed, for some reason, that black women would use them more frequently, on average, than white women. In some of her interviews she explicitly stated that she wanted to keep the growth of non-white minorities from increasing relative to what was, in her day, the overwhelming majority-white US population. Whatever her ideological or eugenic reasoning may have been, what she predicted… Read more »
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