At American Renaissance, I was introduced to an old guy from VDare, who seemed to experience the world strictly through the search functions of his phone. Someone told him about my site and the first thing he did was search for the site name and “white nationalism” to see if I had opinions on the subject. His first hit was a post where I called white nationalism the dumbest thing going. He tried giving me the business about it and I gave it right back to him. I will forever be off the VDare Solstice card list as a result.
In fairness to him, he was a good sport about it. In fairness to me, my criticism of white nationalism is mostly about aesthetics. That means it comes with baggage and that baggage is not easily overcome. When most Americans hear “white nationalism” they think of shitless rustics complaining about the coloreds. Getting modern whites to overcome the cult of anti-racism is hard under ideal conditions. Having Cletus as your sales rep makes it impossible.
That’s something the white identity people need to accept. For generations, Progressives have tightly associated racism with the South. The good white/bad white thing that John Derbyshire discusses is based entirely on this image. Bad whites shop at Walmart, like domestic beer and hate black people. Despite the fact that blacks have been moving back to the Old Confederacy for decades, black culture holds that the South is still aggressively racist.
Even if you can somehow get past the image problem, white nationalism is not some new concept developed by the alt-right. It has a history and it has a lot of veterans of its prior iterations. Those people are still kicking around. The web site Storm Front, in addition to being an FBI honey trap, is the home of the old White Nationalist guys, who used to follow guys like David Duke. If you borrow the language and symbols of these guys, you are inviting them and their ideas into your thing.
There are two problems with this. One is many of these guys were not the best people or the most stable people. Stepping way outside the moral framework is never easy, but it is a lot easier if you’re crazy. It’s also easier if you have nutty ideas that no one takes too seriously. Even the most generous evaluation of White Nationalism 1.0 says it was mostly a reaction to the cultural revolution of the 1960’s. It never came up with a plausible way forward politically or culturally.
Again, even if you manage to rehabilitate the language and symbols, you cannot get past the fact that prior efforts were a failure. A pretty good rule of life is that failure is assured if you follow in the footsteps of previous failures. It’s why adopting Nazi symbols is stupid. Associating your thing with failure is just bad marketing. It also tends to attract people who find some sort of satisfaction in losing. New movements need need language and new symbols.
Putting all of that aside, prior iterations of white nationalism always suffered from the fact they were reactionary. At their very best, they could only offer a critique of the prevailing order. They had nothing to offer as an alternative, beyond demands to wind back the clock. Reactionary movements always fail in the long run for the simple reason that yesterday can never follow tomorrow. Even if everyone agrees the current arrangements are not working, what comes next is never the past.
There’s something else that prior white nationalists movements never got right. They assumed that a majority white nation was a given. If they could just get a majority of whites on their side, they would win the political battles over race. America is 70% white at the last census and will be majority-minority in a few decades. The issue today is not about keeping America white. That horse has left the barn. The question before us today is how whites will survive as a minority population.
That means the math is not about 50% plus one. Whatever comes to define white identity in the age of identity politics will have to appeal to and serve the interests of the vast majority of whites. That can’t just be a visceral hatred of nonwhites. Whites in America are low in clannishness. Old fashioned tribal signaling against the next tribe is not going to work. What comes next has to be an ideology that promotes a positive identity offering a promising future.
That’s probably the most encouraging thing to come out of the Charlottesville protest over the summer. The people involved began to appreciate the need to build new symbols and use new language. Even guys like Andrew Anglin are pushing his people to drop the Hitler images, beyond obviously satirical stuff. Mockery of taboos and irreverence for social norms has a place, but it can’t be the focus of a political movement, if it is going to draw in the skeptical.
The irony here is the New Left went through a similar problem. Before they were able to start the cultural revolution, they existed as an ad hoc counter-culture. The old commies from the CP-USA days tried to glom onto it, but the new radicals correctly saw that as a bad idea. They eventually purged their ranks of the old guys and their old ideas. Now, the cultural movement that seeks to destroy the New Left and the Baby Boomer culture is going through a similar process as it organizes itself.
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Margaret Sanger, whatever else she was, was a white woman. She promoted reproductive choice for women and basically founded planned parenthood. She really believed that such choices should be available to any woman who wanted them. But she also believed, for some reason, that black women would use them more frequently, on average, than white women. In some of her interviews she explicitly stated that she wanted to keep the growth of non-white minorities from increasing relative to what was, in her day, the overwhelming majority-white US population. Whatever her ideological or eugenic reasoning may have been, what she predicted did, in fact come true in part. According to the very pro-abortion Guttmacher Institute (as well as just about all other sources) black women currently choose abortion at 3 times the rate that white women do. That’s a relative narrowing from what it was in the year 2000, 5 times as much, so maybe whatever it was she was picking up on is wearing off. I don’t have any particular point to make by noting this, except that Margaret Sanger made a correct prediction. Maybe it’s due to the fact that more black people are low income, and that low income people find themselves in pregnancies they want to get out of more often than better-off people. We need an income and wealth matched cross-race comparison to see if Ms Sanger really hit the bulls-eye, I guess, and I don’t know if that exists. Relative to just whites, I don’t think the black population percentage has changed much, if at all in the past 50 years; but blacks are a smaller percentage of the population as a whole than they used to be, due to largely non-black non-white immigration, while whites are on track to lose majority status within 20 years or so for the same reason. So, if Margaret Sanger wanted to ensure the continuation of the US as primarily a white, Western-European nation, she appears to have failed, even if she did get one detail right here and there.
Might she turn out to have been some harbinger of white-race based identity politics? I wouldn’t be surprised, if enough whites begin to think of themselves as just one race among many and not “normal” or “deracinated”. I believe that most white people do not think about being white very much. It may be unfair, it may imply that white people expect good treatment in most circumstances and expect to be listened to, and many other things that constitute a sort of “white privilege”, but it all partly operates by white people not explicitly thinking about “white” as a group identity, as something they should care about,be loyal to and discriminate in favor of. The discrimination, such as it is, is mostly at the subliminal level, which lets white people sincerely feel innocent even while reaping the benefits of unfair arrangements. But if more and more whites come to consciously think of themselves as a soon-to-be minority besieged by competing ethnic-based interest groups, struggling over bits of power in a world where there is no longer an acknowledged ethnic majority that runs things, we will have full-blown race based politics without any fig-leaves about being a united nation. The Union, the single nation, e pluribus unum, for whatever it was worth, will be dead, brought down by irreconcilable racial and ethnic differences. Or maybe something unprecedented will happen and forge us into new unities.
“Even if everyone agrees the current arrangements are not working, what comes next is never a return to the old order.”
Arguable counter-examples: the restoration of the Bourbon monarchy in France 1815-1830 and the current restoration of the Spanish monarchy. Different from the past regimes, but connected enough to count as returns to the old order.
No, far too different to count them as a return to the old order. The fact that the restored Bourbon monarchy fizzled out so quickly makes my point. There’s no going back. The current Spanish monarchy is an ornament. The king is ceremonial.
The future of WN is dead as long as its current contingent are at the reins. Guys like J Taylor at least have a framework – one I don’t think is possible or necessarily practical – but he’s done some legwork.
The rest of these master tacticians couldn’t see past using nazi memes to trigger people and firmly associate themselves with one thing that most Americans see as very bad. They also can’t seem to realize the utter futility of “race” over ideology in terms of what any of us on the dissident right have in common with white coastal urban progressives. (Note, I’m mixed, so feel free to criticize.)
I’d suggest that those of us on the dissident right need to think about an identity that transcends nations and regions – even race and ethnicity – so to speak in the way that gypsies, jews, etc. could always move around to different places in the world, but still survive and in some cases thrive.
Their identity, or rather diaspora somehow always remained intact. Stragglers along the way would become converts/adopted into the tribe and fully assimilate.
We need our own diaspora.
I’m not sure if you’ve come across any of the writings from the The Fifth Political Theory who is a reactionary who has been pondering the framework of that said diaspora. I’ll quote a bit from his intro post on his site:
“It is true that the Western heritage is in decline all across our world, as our numbers shrink relative to the growth of Asia, Africa, and Latin America, and as people from those regions move unopposed into what we conceive of as our “regions”—and as we ourselves become more absorbed into a bland, universalist, interchangeable consumer culture.
But it is also true that in the aggregate, Europeans and Eurocolonials have no interest in taking self-presevatory action to counter these trends. Remember, you can only save those who elect to save themselves.
So for those that care about the perpetuity of the West, our values, our heritage, our traditions, and our families, is the solution really to be found in speaking in terms of nations and geopolitics? Outside of perhaps Poland and Hungary (which themselves are part of the pro-immigration European Union), are there any European or Eurocolonial nations which support ethnic nationalism and nativism? Are there any nations which conceive of themselves as nations outside of the third world and Eastern Europe?”
Link is here: https://fifthpolitical.wordpress.com/2017/04/29/5pt-intro/
“A pretty good rule of life is that failure is assured if you follow in the footsteps of previous failures. It’s why adopting Nazi symbols is stupid. The Third Reich was most notable for being a disastrous failure. Associating your thing with failure is just bad marketing.”
So, Dixie is stupid? The Confederates failed, so piss on the battle flag?
You don’t believe this, so that statement was just a way justifying your personal preference.
The truth is, it’s not what you’re selling as much as how you’re selling it. A good car salesman sells a lot of crappy cars. Likewise, a crappy car salesman probably won’t sell a whole lot of good cars.
Nationalism has some ugly baggage from the 80’s. It was mostly Jews and FBI intentionally making Nationalism look bad. Luckily only old men, like Z here, remember that stuff. The younger generations don’t have a clear idea of Nationalism, but they think it’s cool how their parents and grandparents freak out whenever you say NAZI! It’s like Voldemort from Harry Potter. “Speak not the name!”
What we need to do is make Nationalism cool again. All the pieces are in place, Nationalism is the counter-culture. There’s no rules here, whatever sells, sells. Hit the gym and hit the books. If you can train like a Spartan, do it. If you can engineer like a Nazi, do it. If you can pull off a fashy haircut, get one. Make yourself powerful and sexy, then say;
“I’m a Nationalist”
“And we are selling a product to be sure” <= wrong
I see we are back to the "better marketing" approach for building a political movement. Sigh. It's not about words, it's not about manipulating people into joining, like you are AARP.
Form follows function; what is the function of a white nationalist party? What is its purpose? To organize white individuals into a cohesive political *and* cultural group. Why? To survive in a sea of non-white peoples.
Why haven't the mass of white people done this already? Because they are not scared. Or they are scared but think siding with nigs is a better option than siding with other whites.
In summation, a successful white nation must have a well defined enemy, and must communicate the danger of being outside the walls of whitedom clearly and frequently. All this marketing talk is for fags and cat ladies.
I couldn’t agree more. Restoration will never get off the ground if it’s just about skin color (which is just a marker for a generalized genetic/culture feedback loop). Homo sapiens naturally diverge into different races because we have different spirits and evolutionary paths. This is why mixed race people are so troubled because they are torn between two disparate developmental paths.
The European man’s spirit is righteous exploration. We must embody those principles or our spirit will languish and perish like it’s been doing.
How about just breaking up america? Let each state go its own way to a great extent?
How far do you think satire should go and where should it stop? There’s no doubt that Anglin’s shtick and the memes of Trump in a Wehrmacht uniform gassing journalists had a very broad appeal, probably because such total disregard for the taboos was refreshing. Maybe we have wrecked existing taboos so thoroughly that this kind of stuff is no longer necessary? Maybe continuing is overkill and mean spirited? I think most of us know what Anglin was up to, same with Sam Hyde. Seeing someone just honestly let go of those restraints was obviously an attractive spectacle, Hyde’s ratings for his show on basic cable were pretty high.
In order to sell something you need advertising. Unfortunately the left has all that media sewn up. There is a willing audience ready to buy the product.
The empty football stadiums prove that. Whites are finally fed up with the propaganda , but won’t come out of the darkness until they see positive coverage of white nationalism on TV.
The media is owned by that “certain group ” and they will never stop the evil whitey narrative even as they continue to lose money.
Which is strange. Ever since I can remember money has always been their God. it seems they would have an agenda.
One must never speak of it though. It’s up there with all the other great sins, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
TV is a dying media format. Most young people get their videos off the net and don’t rely on cable, etc. It;’s mostly for older people and the dumb. Doubt it? Look at the commercials on FoxNews – all aimed at old people.
Trump figured that out. He relied on tweets, rallies and youtube videos to get the word out.
IOW we don’t need the media, besides it was always a gatekeeper for the elite and it would never ever give us or Trump a fair shake.
Go around around it and use the new media venues.
Things are never as bad or as they seem. Positive things to note: Jeff Flake has joined Corker in the “Jig is Up” club. Beating that Strange guy in AL had consequences. Not every seat will stay GOP, but since the point of all this is to destroy the GOP, this matters not.
I suspect that white nationalism will simply merge with regular old nationalism, which redounds to the benefit of all. I suspect other forms of black and Hispanic nationalism will lose steam. The former because they’re gonna get swamped by the latter, and because many of the latter are just white people. You know, like “white Hispanic” George Zimmerman.
We’re reaching Peak Globalism worldwide. The economic benefits are receding as all the cheap labor in easily capitalized markets reaches capacity, or starts demanding wage increases. Much of the rest of the world, meaning the Middle East and sub Saharan Africa aren’t anywhere near civilized, stable, or educated enough for Globalists to set up camp. That means making the most of the people you have.
I think the racism charge will lose its potency over the next 10-15 years as more and more people just throw up their hands and say, “OK, fine, I’m a ‘racist’, but you’re still wrong, and I’m not apologizing for what I think.”
The counter culture in this country is decidedly NOT left wing.
What is “baby boomer culture”?? Pretty broad segment of the population with experiences and backgrounds from A to Z is hardly a culture. Is it Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump? Bernie Sanders or Ben Carson? James Woods or Harvey Weinstein? Rahm Emmanuel or Thomas Sowell? David Limbaugh or Gloria Steinem?
Since you’re on the topic of terminology that is counterproductive, I would like to add the use of the term “white” to describe the Caucasian race. Not even albinos are “white”, and virtually all of us are variations of beige shading and color tone. We vary from the nominal paleness of the Scandinavians to the olive skin tone of the Mediterranean peoples. And what distinguishes our race is not our color per se, but our superior adaption to climate extremes.
People of Moderate Color
This is probably the most useful/powerful sentiment on this blog:
“Reactionary movements always fail in the long run for the simple reason that yesterday can never follow tomorrow. Even if everyone agrees the current arrangements are not working, what comes next is never a return to the old order.”
We forget often that this is a new thing, and because we’ve been told certain stories/morality plays for so long now, it is easy to fall into the trap of more of the same. All the while, time is ticking away…
Image is indeed most important in selling a product. And we are selling a product to be sure. First off we need to consider the market segment that gives the biggest bang for the buck in terms of numbers. I’d say that would be blue collars and middle-class in the rust belt, mid-west and the sun-belt.
I don’t think we’ll have much success with the upper class whites since they tend to be isolated from all the shit they promote or ignore.
Secondly what are we trying to sell them? For the life of me I have no clue what the WID is offering folks. Pride in our accomplishments, history, ethnic identity, That would be start. How about making it a subscription based thing like the NRA so at least it can fund itself. Maybe include a glossy magazine like the American Rifleman but call ours Euro Heritage. or something.
Have a segment aimed at kids as a corrective to the garbage taught in public schools.
In Israel, 18 year olds serve in the military BEFORE they go to college. Another idea.
Israel has a one year mandatory service in the IDF. The problem with any ”draft reinstatement” is the fact that IMHO about 2/3 of the general population would be summarily rejected for the military. Drugs for one, they’ve been doing the whiz quiz for 40 years now, flunk and out.
When we drank, smoked, drugged, slugged, and ate fat, we deplorably built the modern world.
Someday the Elfin Safety of the workers will mean we will do nothing at all- so we need Mexicans and Somalis to do it.
We just don’t measure up, why try?
I do not find “white nationalism” to be an apt descriptor of what goes on in the United States. White Americans have always viewed themselves as patriotic, not nationalistic. Patriotism has been the rallying sentiment of white Americans since the Revolutionary War. America has never had a “nationalist” movement. Nationalism is a foreign sentiment.
I think you’re right and this nationalism is a new thing for us, brought on by the 10s of millions of immigrants whose presence is being felt by adversely impacted citizens of European ancestry. It’s emerging from the sentiment of being displaced and replaced, of becoming the unwanted Other in the very country our ancestors built. Part of this new nationalism is the desire to reclaim and cultivate our European-American tradition and heritage that is now being replaced by Latino, African, and Middle-Eastern cultures, many incompatible with our Euro Christian culture.
That and the fact that we are openly disagreeing with the open borders crowd. That’s why “nationalism” has to be used now. It opposes globalism.
You may be making a better point than you even know. Most historians believe that nationalism got its start in the French Revolution. To a certain extent it was a result of the centralized administration of the Ancien Regime. In his pamphlet on the Third Estate Abbe Sieyes refers not to the countries that made up France, but the nation as a whole. The thinking started with the king. So it seemed natural for those who took over after the king to think of a unitary state. The federalist program of the later Girondists was seen as an attempt to return the country to a situation reminiscent of feudalism, or one in which the royalist reaction would be able to pick off one province or department after another. The circumstances of being involved in war on multiple fronts made the centralized administration more necessary, too.
The idea of nationalism goes against the American tradition of federalism.
Its just going to need to go for the whites like it does the others. In my field, people walk around in suits and do financial desk work. The black guys in suits, when they see each other getting on elevators or walking through the building lobby, give a bit of a smile or a nod to each other. They are in a little club. If the world is going tribal, the white guys will start to openly identify with their own club too.
Outside of that, and finance is only merit-based to a point, as so much of success in that field is being at the right place at the right time, look at the medical community. Mostly white and Chinese-American. Merit based, as you do not get the gig if you don’t know your stuff. Pity hires are for the staff, not the M.D.s. In another context, math and geometry are now elements of white privilege. Merit is stil out there in the areas that matter, and in fields that can meaningfully change the world for the better.
The rest of them out there, not skilled or trained in the more difficult and meaningful professions to master, will seek to glom onto the prestige and status of such work, or even try to participate in some way. But intellectual and work habit merit will win out, and the real participants will mostly remain white and Asian. It is just how things sort out. Eliminate such work, out of spite or “unfairness”, and you get a return to the dark ages.
I wonder what the stats show in hiring for bureaucracies, or such as the teachers unions. Or in LGBT preference.
An Overseer class, lethally protective of their privileges.
We will be ruled by the freaks and stupids.
You both are right. The med schools discriminate against white men and private practices prefer to hire them. The result is that there are not enough to go around. Therefore you have the big organizations that need a body to fill a slot inevitably filling it with minorities, women, or foreigners.
IOW, we’re all going to pay more for competent doctors because of the gatekeepers
From what I’ve read, med school admissions have been politicized even beyond affirmative action requirements and therefore weaponized (against whites and asians) and compromised. It’ll be scary going to the doctor in this country in the near future. (Even scarier than our industrial corporate medical system already is.)
Haven’ heard of it being taken out…The ACA had requirements — quotas — in it — to get gov. funds, med schools, research centers,hospitals, etc., had to have the right number of blacks.
You can still find good ones. Just try to stay out of hospitals and emergency rooms.
The real conflict is between the post-national oligarchs and the rest of the population. That’s because the interests of the oligarchs and the interests of the population are in conflict.
The tactic of the oligarchs is to divide the population in order to conquer it. Thus they create black lives matter to stir up the black people, for example, to take advantage of racial division.
Embracing ‘white nationalism’, which is as practical as it is popular, is playing right into their hands. It’s a way to let the more excitable part of the population burn their energy on something pointless and which can only be a failure.
The first and most easily realized achievement that will gain widespread support is dismantling the Prog money machines and racial preference scams. The support for those programs decreases every time BLM protests, and every time yet another lefty professor tweets.
If we don’t take them out now, while whites are still in the majority, they will never be taken out – the other races will use the ‘historical oppression’ cudgel against my great grandchildren because it will still be on the books and in their interest to do so.
After that, we’ll have a chance to get politicians who speak truth and can actually go after the graft and gangsters of both parties. But ending the scam that puts Jamal and Jose into college over Brad/Phuong/Vijay/Huang will do a lot to clear the political and media field of mouthy, sub intellects whose primary job is to repeat the script that Soros and Steyer had written for them.
I am trying to envision white survival in a minority situation and all I see are race wars looming. Trying to figure out how that 5-way pie fight will shake out is a daunting task too.
Blacks pretty much universally hate whites. Browns from the arab world do too. Asians are about 50/50 for and against. Can’t comment on Hispanics as I haven’t met enough.
However it shakes out, I don’t see peaceful coexistence happening.
The Asians will end up going with us because they will be rejected and mistreated by the others. You can take that to the bank.
Asians loosely see us as people in decline but recall all the white people in their math books. We can work with them. Consider also that they have money – lots of it – and can’t see supporting everyone else with it.
Why do you think blacks hate whites and not hispanics, who have zero affection for blacks? Because they know if you fuck with hispanics there is a likelihood they will fuck you back plus some. The attitudes of 48% a white America will not be the same as what exists now–a sign saying kick me. Leaving marginal groups without a firm hand does greater damage to them by far than overt hostility, which actually has many benefits.
Precisely, it is human nature to gang up on the weak. And White Europeans have been willingly emasculated and apologizing for themselves for 50 years.
One wonders why we have this ideology engrained in us as it certainly isn’t genetic. Ever heard of the Vandals, Veringians, or Vikings?
Obviously the answer is Christianity. It is an ideology of matriarchal supremacy. Go ahead and downvote me I know you want to, and you know I’m right.
It’s odd to blame Christianity for events that coincided with the disappearance of Christianity among our leaders. It makes more sense to blame the shallow pseudo-religion of the progressives which has replaced the old faith.
Exactly. Progressivism is a late stage Christian heresy. Progressivism fills the role that a real life grounded in family, community and faith used to have for most whites until WWII.
Actually you have rejected the God of the Bible for last 50 years and your Father Satan has filled the void, tough guy.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = matriarchal? Were Jesus or any of the apostles women?
The peoples you mentioned all liked to fight and were good at it but that’s not the same as having a civilization.
blacks don’t get along with anyone else, nor do they get along with each other. as has been stated here before, the Mexicans are pushing the nigs back into the south from almost all corners of the US. here in socal, each group has their own towns/cities so everyone pretty much gets along. as for muslims, send them all back,
It has been disappointing to see the TRS guys be almost completely co-opted by the WN crowd, even treating David Duke like he is still relevant. I expected more from them.
Do you think going with more of a christo-european identity is plausible, or do you think the different european ethnicities will never coalesce and christianity cannot be resurrected in this country. Because if that is the case, we are probably doomed, because I think we need both blood and religion, and it is unlikely we can come up with a decent replacement for christianity on such short notice.
I recently moved to The Netherlands and have been traveling around and talking to a lot of people. The term white nationalism would be extremely uncouth to utter here. But European nationalism? That’s not just perfectly acceptable but viewed with much positivity and affection.
Like you pointed out in the other post, LA is an excellent test case. What are whites and Hispanic whites doing there? From what I can tell, they self segregate, like all the other racial groups do. The SWPLs of course talk diversity but most of them hole up within 2 miles of the coast, or Silver Lake.
I go back and forth between “yes we need to band together and fight the poz!” and “why bother working on a patient that clearly doesnt want to live?”
It becomes understandable why many choose to plug back into the matrix.
What are jorts?
Anyway, can there not be a white nationalism without the redneck and Nazi associations? A non-crackpot white nationalism?
You make some good points about avoiding offensive symbolism, but the defeatism (“The issue today is not about keeping America white. That horse has left the barn”) here is disturbing.
Who says reaction is always doomed to failure? If that were so the Soviet Union would still be in business.
Jorts are cut-off blue jeans.
Acknowledging demographic reality is not defeatism.
Reaction did not kill the Soviets. The internal irrationality killed the Soviets. You’ll note the lack of a Czar or restoration of a ruling family. Reaction is oh-for-forever, because it is a purely defensive crouch.
“The lack of a Czar”
C’mon, Z, give Putin time. The guy can only do so much so fast…
Well white nationalism will never work with faggots like Richard Spencer. And by faggot I mean someone who is individually and only strong collectively. Faggot as a homosexual slur is a misappropriated term as a faggot is a bundle of sticks.
White nationalism would require an ethos of masculine men capable of giving rousing speeches while standing in front of a podium shirtless. The type of man that young men look up to and reflexively call “Sir”.
Hasn’t that already been tried?
The question before us today is how whites will survive as a minority population in a majority-minority country.
Sad but true. You know, even when I was growing up lo these many years ago, I used to think, “Okay, there’s a Black Congressional Caucus and Hispanic one, so why shouldn’t there be a White one?” Also, I would say that other people got to be Polish-American or German-American or whatever, but given my British background, I was just a “plain-old American”. That is, there was no such thing as, say, “English-American” or even “Scottish-American” because people like that just blended in as “regular” Americans without having some separate identity.
As you say, those days are over. Growing up when I did, I actually did internalize the old claptrap about “judge a man by his achievements and not by the color of his skin.” Of course, the Left these days has no such belief at all, and for them, the “color of your skin” (in the broadest since of group identity) is the an inherent and inescapable element of everyone’s identity, particularly with the intention of “righting historical wrongs” at the expense of white people who didn’t necessarily have anything to do with those wrongs (and who haven’t in particular “benefitted” from them).
And given the various ideas that go with “race realism” (and “sex realism” too), the New Right (or whatever it is that we call the non-GOPe) has its own, rather different, realization that biological facts do have an inherent role to play in determining how all of us individuals function as parts of various groups in society, and that these groups are not simply “social constructs” that can capriciously pushed around according to our political objectives (as Leftists believe).
As you also say, the train has left the station when it comes to a “white majority” America. But if that’s the case, what exactly is the rallying cry for White Americans who don’t want to see the country turn into the next South Africa? I mean this question quite literally. I look for some positive message/goal/policy on the New Right, and I can’t see what this is. As you say, it’s gotta be something more than “I don’t like those people and they gotta go.” Apart from anything else, it’s pretty clear that they won’t (and that entirely leaves aside the issue of the millions of illegal aliens; there are more than enough trouble makers who have indisputable US citizenship).
I really am eager to know. What is the goal and the message moving forward in the attempt to rescue “regular” Americans from the fate that befell the white residents of Salisbury or Johannesburg? I don’t get a “positive” sense about this from the people I read over on Gab. The problem is clear enough but the solution is not.
Do you have an answer? I know I don’t, and really would like to know how we conceive of ourselves and our future. Those Fourteen Words are an aspiration, not a policy.
All you need to do is look at countries where whites are a minority to see that American whites will not remain the same. The smaller the plurality, the bolder they become. In Mexico they are not even a plurality but a small minority, and they rule government, academia, and and media of every sort. Sound familiar? Heh.
“Mockery of taboos and irreverence for social norms has a place, but it can’t be the focus of a political movement, if it is going to draw in the skeptical. The white identity people seem to get that now.”
So does the leftist movement. If there is an event without that taboo symbol, pay for a stooge or two to carry them into the rally. Much like they did when the Tea Party era started. The left would pay for a few guys to show up with offensive signs or T-shirts and make their way to their comrades, the state media reporters. Then with the press help, the stooges and their imagery become the face of the Tea Party, their pictures to be shown over and over during CNN and MSNBC 24/7 news cycles.
Now today if there is a protest but the honky isn’t carrying any Nazi paraphernalia or Confederate flags, no problem. Just focus your video and photography on the counter protestors carrying that paraphernalia along with the signs akin to “We fight hate.” Stock film works wonders too to show to the low info mofos and shape their opinion.
Again, the final joke will be on the Democrat party who white leaders run around denouncing whites. Once the opposition is gone, they will be first to go, not realizing their skin too is white and that the beast must feed. Even after the right-of-center whites are eliminated and their help in achieving it will not matter. Useful idiots at their finest.
“Once the opposition is gone, they will be first to go, not realizing their skin too is white and that the beast must fed.” The left is too caught up in their virtue signaling to care. Just as they can embrace gays, feminism and muslims, with caring about how that ends.
On the other hand, it might be as simple as calling it “The Reality Movement.” Most people are already sick to death of professors, 30 year old college kids, actors, and other cosplayers who’ve never held a real job ordering us to ignore the evidence of our own lying eyes. These days, acknowledging the bum-poundingly obvious is rebellious and edgy. “Get with the real world… you know you want to. All the cool kids are doing it.” Find a photogenic James Dean type to push it, and you’re good.
I like that. The left had a lot of fun calling themselves the “reality based community” during the Bush years. Their problem was they were in a non-reality based bubble.
Leading up to the last election, some of the campaign material I saw referred to civil rights being for all people. Taken as a whole, it pretty much implied that the goal was for the law to be color-blind. Perhaps I read too much into it, but that’s how it struck me.
While this color-blind business might not satisfy some people here, I thought it was a great idea. Interesting that this approach did not need to give itself a name in addressing the public.
There ya go. Just what I was thinking when I saw a headline the other day “How can we convince Trump voters they elected a lemon”? It was like “How can we convince people who know what they wanted and what they didn’t want — and voted that way — to disbelieve what they’re watching and swallow our propaganda instead? “The reality movement is what got DT elected and why McCain, Corker, and Flake were upset enough to give their crude and vulgar “politics is so crude and vulgar” speeches this week.
Hard to disagree with. Despite the grossness of his satire Anglin gets it. My approach has been to be as accepting of WN’s as possible and not talk down. The hope is that they will do some footwork for the new right, with the knowledge that punching right is counterproductive. Your calculus seems to be that these people are such a small minority as to be both numerically and tactically insignificant so purging is OK.
The problem I have with your approach is one of empathy, I guess. The left doesn’t care how moderate one is. When you look back at the situation in Southern Africa you had an overtly racist regime in SA and by comparison the remnant of one of the mildest colonial regimes in world history just north of it. If you knew the situation the differences were quite stark. But no one seemed to care.
My point is, if people want to see snuggle toothed rubes in jorts that’s what they’ll see. But winning is what matters. If winning means not having WN buddies, I guess that’s what we’ll have to do.
I just don’t see mods jumping into the foxhole with me.
It’s about imagery, not ideology. If you promote a positive image that white people find naturally attractive, they will join. The great error of the last 50 years has been placing hope in reactionary politics. “They are going to call us racist anyway” is simply reactionary defeatism, another way of saying, “Let’s lose with our principles intact!”
“It also tends to attract people who find some sort of satisfaction in losing”
Nazis aside, this has been a huge problem with what one might like to call the Neo-Confederate movement. There’s a huge difference between being proud of your cause even though you lost, and the actual glorification of losing, even implying that there is something morally compromising about winning. Having people going around saying defeatist crap like “Here’s to the lost causes, because they are the only ones worth fighting for!” is worse than useless. Movement Conservatism has also fallen into this trap in the last twenty years or so…
Ah, the old “moonlight-and-magnolias” horseshit. Better to lose with honor and all that. I always tell people, “the Confederacy started conscription first;” if they don’t get it, then there’s no sense wasting time on them. The good thing is, the nobility-of-defeat people come around in time, and do good work once you’re actually winning. Neo-Confederate stuff works great, provided you don’t say the C-word. Those people will get with the program later.
I was not aware the Rebs had conscription anywhere, or needed it. I could stand to be corrected. They did have a desertion problem every growing season, but even the women were enthusiastic about the war, and few men could go against that grain. I’ve read that of the few that did not join, some were made to wear a dress. Conscription in the North was a nasty business.
The 1862 Conscription Act. The exceptions to this law — especially the “20 N*gger Law” exempting overseers from the draft — originated the phrase “rich man’s war but a poor man’s fight.” CSA armies were heavily conscripted, and conscripted straight into the national army – a big violation of states’ rights.
The law exempted overseers, not the owners of the slaves, most of whom were too old to be drafted anyway. Someone had to keep the Southern economy going in order to grow the crops needed to feed the armies as well as the cotton necessary to float the loans from Europe to finance the war. The percentage of slaveowning families military age sons volunteering was well above the average, so the “poor man’s fight” argument doesn’t hold water.
“Rich man’s war, poor man’s fight” is what they said at the time, not the historical reality. Kinda like “there were no WMDs in Iraq.” Sure there were, and everyone but Rachel Maddow viewers admits it now, but at the time. Contemporary opinion, not how it really was.
It was the rich Christian plantation owners who are primarily responsible for bringing Africans to this country, thinking they could civilize them because they had the secret to salvation. And now they mostly care about stopping abortion so that the only check on their population growth be removed.
I think abortion is evil and degenerate, but we wouldn’t be in this position if Christians hadn’t brought an alien people into our society in the first place. We have Christians to thank for the cult of Negroe worship, that’s a fact Jack.
Over the years I’ve been on some winning sides and some losing sides with basically the same principles. It sometimes seems as if Fate decides things more than the tactics one decides on using.
But one is still expected to do one’s best, and what is best is whatever the consensus of the age determines.
Have been following Gab. It looks like the consensus there is going against the WN. But what the consensus is certainly doesn’t look like National Review conservatism, either.
This may turn out OK.
Serendipity plays a big role in human affairs. Why did Maxentius decided to come out and fight Constantine at The Battle of the Milvian Bridge? He had successfully held Rome against siege in the past and he was prepared to do it again, but he made a series of crucial errors and found himself dead as a result.
The Mongol army was on the Hungarian plain, with no army between them and the Atlantic. They were poised to sweep across Europe, but then the Great Khan Ögedei got drunk and fell off his horse, killing himself. The Mongols returns home to pick a new Khan.
“Associating your thing with failure is just bad marketing.” Here’s where Americans’ breathtaking ignorance of history is a real advantage. Call Fascism “the Chinese model,” for example, and you can get people to think about what it actually is, what policies it entails, etc. (If you say “China sure looks like Fascism,” though, they give you a blank look and say “But the Chinese aren’t gassing Jews!” This is what you get when your society only knows history via Call of Duty games, but I digress). The “white nationalist” people would be smart to push every single clause in the old Confederate constitution that doesn’t contain the S-word — it’s not that hard, because very few of them do — without calling it Confederate. Hell, you could probably get away with calling it “States’ Rights” — again, we get our history from video games — but to be safe, call it Calhounism or Hartford Convention 2.0 or something similarly “edgy” for the Facebook generation.
What I like about the phrase “white identity” is its banality. To most normies, it has no meaning whatsoever. That makes it inviting. “What do you mean by white identity?” It keeps the focus on positive things and makes it hard for the usual suspects to start ululating about Hitler or the KKK. To some degree, “pro-white” works this way to. To oppose “pro-wwhite” means you are “anti-white” and people tend not embrace anti anything.
You just reminded me of that great meme that has been floating around for a while. A picture of 4 people, A black guy who says I am Black and I am proud to be a Black man. An Asian who says…I am Asian and I am proud to be an Asian. A Hispanic chick who says…..I Spanish and I am proud to be Spanish. Then the white guy who says…..I am white….so I am a racist.
Unfortunately, for too many people the very word “white” has bad associations. Even pro-abortion people don’t call themselves pro-abortion, because the word “abortion” brings gruesome images to mind. So they substitute “choice,” because who could be against choice? Sadly, I think “pro-white” will work like that. If you’ve been to college, or these days even high school, you’re conditioned to unconsciously regard “white,” “Western,” “Christian,” and “civilization” as swear words. So maybe we’ll have to go with “pro-Reality” for lack of a better term (or, find some super-sciencey way to say “white” — “the high albedo community” or something — to make folks think they’re smart when they say it).
I agree that anything with “white” in it is a non-starter. Too many whites will be turned off. I would propose championing the same attributes that black profiteers use to keep other blacks on their plantation. Personal responsibility, respect for the law, speaking well, love of country, etc., all of which will get a black accused of acting white. Whites will get it, and you might even pull in a small percentage of minorities.
I think “Pro-Western” works well, without coming off as overtly ethno-centric.
“High albedo community” 😂