66 thoughts on “Fringe Politics”

1. Whose version of tomorrow belongs to me was that?

   • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_hiaOIWfm0&bpctr=1556984191

     • Thank you, I listened several times over the last few days, but now they memory holed it.

2. I could listen to you talk about National bolshevism all day because it cracks me up every time you say nasball

3. Too many foreigners.

4. PineTreeGang finds your lack of attention to deep ecology disturbing.

5. Hmmm. That’s confusing a system of measurement for legally testing speech claims with demand for ordinary people speaking in strict construction (measurements)

   So, no, that’s not a description of Propertarianism. Instead, P provides the ability to write strictly constructed law, constitutions in that law, and decide conflicts in court by that law. Then apply this to political, economic and financial claims in the commons. In simple terms it allows us to extend involuntary warranty for commercial claims to political claims.

   The artifice I had to explain to achieve this (the proof) is huge, but the underlying operational logic something about as simple to explain a programming language.

   It’s a very technical innovation in logic, science and the law. So because of this I attract the supergeeks so to speak. But to reach broader numbers I use (extensively) aphorism and aphoristic statements like nietzsche or confucius to summarize the painfully analytic arguments.

   It’s hard to criticize the inaccessibility of my work in the context of intellectual history: I’m certainly easier than Kant, Hegel, or Heidegger and more rigorous than Nietzsche (who was a critic but lacked actionable solution). On the other hand, It’s harder than most of the 20th century thinkers for the simple reason that operational logic is a leap over set logic.

   So the fundamental problem I have is reach. Interested dissidents or activists can understand the policies, but not the foundations – they might not have the ability (or patience). And because it’s a method for composing law and testing the testifiability of speech, and the attendant suggested policies it does not provide the ideological or philosophical wants of activists (larpers of political ideology.)

   Law is the means of engineering social orders of any complexity. That’s what I write about.
   And I put the western group evolutionary strategy in historical terms, explaining it in world historical context. And why it’s been so impactful in each historical era. And then why the world recoils against it. An so if you want to preserve it and its benefits, you have to fight for it. (Hard). The rest is entertaining the audience, teaching them, and seeking out those who are capable of composition, argument, and defense of that strict construction of law.

   I am very aware of the achievement. That does not mean I will ever be (or desire to be) a populist. 😉 But that said. Just try to debate people who learn it – and watch what happens…. 😉

   • What’s the elevator pitch?

     • It’s like a curveball but instead of breaking down toward the shins it breaks up toward the crazy.

   • Curt, I’d like to summarize what you claim to have accomplished. Correct me if I am mistaken. You believe that you have constructed a philosophical and legal system where untruths and parasitism can be objectively defined, demonstrated and criminalized. Therefore, you have said things like that a student should be able to sue a sociology professor for lying. Acts of philosophical untruth and parasitism can be demonstrated as clearly as, say, the proofs of De Morgan’s laws. Subjectivity in court concerning these issues has been eliminated at least in principle. Correct?

   • I’m surprised Z isn’t more taken with Propertarianism, it being a typical American style technological fix. Of course it won’t fly, it’s way above the head of 99.9% of genpop. The rubes are only interested in the gibs and Propertarianism is apparently designed to defeat politicians attempting to auction off stolen goods at every election.

     • Propertarianism is just high IQ libertarianism and fails for the same raceblind reasons. What treachery would the toucans wreak with the penumbra and emanations within Propertarianism?

       It’s sad how hard these smart guys will work to avoid facing up to race and toucans.

       Doolittle’s philosophy is like the byzantine system of epicycles that astronomers constructed to avoid the conclusion that the earth revolves around the sun.

       • He talks about those things obliquely: conflicts between groups that follow a different evolutionary strategy, different genetic groups etc.

         My problem with P is that it attributes to man an exaggerated degree of individualism and places too high a value on individual exchange and too little on group dynamics.

6. Faye is a really interesting thinker, although I do wish some of his writings were more fleshed out. Why We Fight is a prescient overview of the emerging right, but Sex and Deviance is a bit too scattershot and fits in better with the French postmodernist nonsense machine, to borrow from Roger Scruton.

   We really do need a Thomas Paine type who can de-esotericize the philosophy of the 21st century right. I can only read so much Faye or Moldbug before my brain turns to mush. Bowden sort of comes to mind but he’s dead and I’m not sure how much he offers for an American audience outside Pulp Fascism.

7. Anything worthy of being called a civilization was founded and developed into a high cultural civilization around an ethnos, a throne and an altar. Initially it was made up of 3 estates: the king/warriors, the priests, and everyone else. As it evolved and became more and more complex it developed new vertical and horizontal hierarchies. This is the archeo, the structure.

   It doesn’t mean picking up where we left off 300 years ago, but it does outline the institutions that naturally developed, how they developed and the kinds of symbiotic relationships the differing estates operated under.

   The differing estates often operated under very different social and economic structures. Whatever we do going forward let’s not subject our own people to a one-size-fits-all structure. We have ‘diversity ‘ aplenty within our own tribe. Let’s have freedom enough to sort ourselves out and let’s allow each estate(community if you prefer)to order itself.

8. Most entertaining! Thanks

   I was intrigued by the part on taibi and his early influence on the alt right. I read somewhere that he played pro basketball in Uzbekistan. Our minor leagues are pros there, much like with baseball in Japan.

   I was in Sicily a while back and learned that Mussolini put a serious dent in the mafia and eradicated malaria by planting eucalyptus trees. What else does he need to do for them in order to be loved and not reviled? Shows that people’s thoughts are almost entirely formed by propaganda.

   Kevin Macdonald is speaking in the south? Where exactly?

9. An off-topic, renewing moment from Rural-Revolution, plus comments:

   http://www.rural-revolution.com/2019/05/do-they-know-what-green-is.html

   Now/whip crack! Back to organizing and identifying fringe politics!

10. Z man and dissidents:

    Have you seen the Katie McHugh article by the special people at Buzzfeed. Jesus, she threw a shit ton of people under the bus and ruined many lives. I truly believe there can be no women in the circle of trust. Which is why we need to set up many layers of op sec for this thing.

    • Hoo-boy! Next time, give us a warning! Talk about Trudeau-level eyebrowry… My psychobitch-detector just blew up.

      Anyway, who the fuck is Katie McHugh? Never heard of her before.

      • Hahaha!

        Sobran’s death was also her introduction to even further-right media; when he died in 2010, her online search for obituaries led her to the VDare and American Renaissance websites, she said.

        Amren and Vdare! Holy God, that’s what Buzzfeed considers further-right?

        Damn, these clowns have no idea what’s coming for them.

      • Former Breitbart reporter.

        Kind of a dim bulb. Like most grifters, she seems to have taken the ‘reformed’ persona after failing to make it in the right. She is currently doing her ritual purification to the left to atone for her sins.

        The left will not forgive, and not the friends she betrayed.

        • I see, thanks.

          Funny article, though. Check this:

          Sobran’s death was also her introduction to even further-right media; when he died in 2010, her online search for obituaries led her to the VDare and American Renaissance websites, she said.

          Amren and VDare are ‘further-right’? These people have no clue, do they?

      • Fired from Breitbart a year or so ago for hatethink of some sort, seemed to be “one of ours” at that time.

        • Wait a moment! Is this the girl who got beaten to pulp and brutally raped to death by Corey Lewandowsky at a Trump rally?

          • Good news, Gentlemen! I get that you feel betrayed by Cute Katie. Sure, you quietly climb out of bed, your head pounding with that hangover, as you creep to the door, fumbling the doorknob before she wakes up. Turning back for one last glimpse of her, you knew it was the alcohol talking last night, what were you thinking, you notice the 70 extra pounds, the bad skin, the rumpled snoring mouth, and she is still talking….in her sleep! But you knew what you were thinking…last night. And….you’ll do it all again. Next time she could be Glenn Close you remind yourself!
            All right…..all right. Choose better—I know you can do it! Stash those plans for an internment camp for Shitlib women and women who betray you. Get on with life now. You have gained better radar. Still lots of good gals out there of the thought-full conservative bent.
            Good grief…..you have Whitney, Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman (assuming she’s a gal…no offense MRV) and a Range Front Fault (this basin-range fault is exhibiting no current seismic swarms, yet being in the great basin is old and unpredictable, in 500-1000 years can easily break a 7.8 on the Richter scale and move entire ranges up 15+ feet in seconds as a normal fault, or up and over as a thrust fault, example the Carlin Trend, one of the largest gold mining districts in the world due to hydrothermal alteration) and a loyal reasonably thinking base of women! Do not despair!

          • I get that you feel betrayed by Cute Katie.

            Cute Katie!?! Are we talking about the girl in the Buzzfeed article? The chubby yenta with the ridiculously fake eyebrows and the psycho stare?

            Hell, I’d rather do Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I appreciate the warning, but I’m old enough to spot a bunny-boiler.

          • Katie’s twitter photo looked attractive, but it was very suspicious that we never saw her from the neck down.

            Guess we know why now.

          • Err..yeh. Ruth Bader Ginsburg?! Methinks thou doth protest too much.

          • Ouch.

            So, is it the Lewandowsky-girl? The one that got MILO and Shapiro at each others’ throats?

          • No, that was Michelle Fields, a mixed race grifter. Katie McHuge is just a fat, white traitor.

          • Michelle Fields, that right!

            Thanks. I guess I could’ve googled that.

    • Not sure I’d say no women whatsoever but they are clearly a high risk, especially unmarried childless career gurls. Married mothers have more skin in the game No argument with vetting them twice as hard and raising the bar.

    • Just finished it. What a goy-grovel. For those without the stomach for this bile, here’s a synopsis: “I take full responsibility for everything I said and did but lets talk for pages more about the people who were responsible for making naive little me into a monster and not stopping me as I got more monstrous.” Another soulless, wormtongued climber.

    • Jesus-Joseph and Mary! And you guys call us mercurial! Can’t you tell a parody when you see one. If at least half of you guys haven’t done what I just wrote about I’d be surprised.
      Are you going to allow some humor in the brave new counter-world you wish to create, or can we not laugh at our own human nature?
      So get back on your horse and let’s get the sheep up the plateau to summer pasture. There’s work to do.

11. At the risk of sounding like a special snowflake… is there any way to get transcripts of these podcasts? For various reasons, mostly work-related, I simply don’t have time to listen to something on headphones in secrecy for an hour. I can, however, read a transcript of an hour-long show in about 15 min. Would that be a gigantic pain in the ass, or is it something doable?

    • I’d do a couple, no charge.

      • I would greatly appreciate a transcript, too.

        • You’re following this, Z? Just say the word if you want a few Power Hours transcribed.

12. Yeah, I’m pretty sure that Doolittle is a nut. When you started reading parts of his seven pillar word salad, it sounded exactly like one of your Xirl Science bits.

    • Are you familiar with Doolittle’s protege, John Mark? His YouTube stuff is actually pretty good.

      • http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=17246#comment-99899

13. I’m sure that “Fringe Politics” is an interesting topic for a podcast, especially for somebody like Z who’s an astute observer of the overall scene.

    But personally (and non-astute-wise), I’ve been sort of under the vague impression that for quite some time now, we’ve really had nothing BUT fringe politics. I’m sort of hard-pressed to think of anyone in public life right now who isn’t some species of crackpot.

    For instance, I’ve never really been able to figure out what “right-wing” actually means in its own terms. Insofar as I’ve ever been “right-wing”, all I really meant was that I was opposed to blatant stupidity, craziness, and hate-filled spite — which pretty much just means “opposed to the Left”. When I hear a group of people or an individual described as being “far-right”, it usually turns out to be one of two things: either (minority of cases) costumed LARPing weirdos who like talking about Hitler, or else normal people who would simply prefer for their country to remain recognizable and for their people to not be replaced and exterminated by foreigners. That doesn’t sound very “right-wing,” the same way “not wanting to be eaten alive by zombies” doesn’t sound like a particularly “right-wing” position on The Walking Dead.

    • I have not listened yet, but my own take is that conservativish “leave me alone” movements or expressions immediately get labeled as “ultra right wing” or “fascist”.

      The Lefties are all about not leaving people alone. They want the skims, the gibs, the shaming, and the ostracizing. Any room given for “leave me alone” impedes all of that.

      • Since the Left controls the language, anything they don’t like is called right-wing, which mean bad in Prog-speak.

        • So to engage the other side, we need to do it ways that are, as little as possible, verbal arguments immersed in the language that they control, or easily verbally described things and actions, subject to their twisting through the use of their dominant and prejudicial language.

          We need to operate in the shadows, which has the bonus feature of encouraging the ephemeral concepts of “Magic Dirt” and “WT’s Magic”, which freak them out, even though they can’t really define them or acknowledge them. Or, more exactly, the concepts are very difficult for them to put into their language, without promoting the things in ways they can’t snuff out with words. Just like IQ and HBD, to acknowledge them is for the other side to lose his semantic thread.

          Which is why I am adopting the attitude of responding by “that’s just stupid” when I am surrounded by stupid things or arguments. I am not going to define why. If they want to go there, my response is “stop being such a dumbass”. Arguing over why they are being a dumbass, doing and saying stupid things, does not to be argued, let’s just leave it as self-evident and go from there. I do not want to get into arguments where they control the language of the arguments.

          • You can operate in the open, but you must adopt and coopt the entrenched propaganda. It’s the only way that a hated white man can do it. Why did the nasocs adopt red as their color?? Hint, hint.

            If you’re a minority of course you can say whatever the hell you want. LOL

        • How do we get the language back?

      • The neoliberal big business types don’t want to leave you alone either. Hence the massive amount of money spent to get your eyeballs in front of their psychological propaganda marketing. Ask your doctor about Xilcor.

14. I haven’t listened yet but I sincerely hope that the segment on NazBol features the phrase “Erik Striker is a Wignat retard and no one should take him seriously.”

    • Ha, I do mention him, but I am more polite.

      Striker makes me laugh. I just imagine that he does his podcasts after drinking all day.

    • HAIL STRIKER!
      HAIL VICTORY!
      HAIL OUR PEOPLE!

      • I didn’t find hailgate cringe at the time and defended Spencer vociferously.

        Observed reality showed me my mistake. I reject any WN “leader” who hasn’t learned from the compound disasters of 2017.

15. Matt Taibbi still writes for Rolling Stone. His work on the lead up to the financial crisis is excellently summed up in ‘Griftopia’ and he coined the now popular term ‘vampire squid’ in reference to Goldman Sachs. His direct experience in Russia as an ex-pat gave him enough insight on how patently absurd the whole Russiagate thing was, and how the Clinton’s fingerprints were all over it. Because his NPC programming still defaults to ‘orange man bad’, he stays stuck banging on that wall like a broken Roomba. He’s a devoted Bernie Bro.

    Ames got into trouble for his writings of escapades with underage Russian ‘devotchkas’ in the eXile and has been somewhat un-personed. His claims that they were fiction were appropriately ignored.

    • I always hated Taibbi and Ames like snakes, but Taibbi has really had his eyes opened by the Russiagate scam. He’s worth watching

      • Taibbi is worth reading. But yeah, just know his biases. He wrote a great piece on Romney and Bain Capital.

16. Third Positionists would seem to be the best fit with Dissident Right American populism. For better or worse, this would skew recruiting toward younger generations less indoctrinated with “Fascism Bad.” While the German version is comprehensively anathematized, few react to Mussolini like Hitler. Heinlein remains popular here. Southerners in particular have a tradition of aristocracy that Americans need to embrace, not erase. Bannon’s appeal on the Right, whether you buy into him or not, wasn’t damaged by spluttering about Pareto. We need creative ways to work aristocracy and its values into the fabric of government, with strong firewalls against its removal by democratic elements (such as the Seventeenth Amendment).

    • The old WN guys certainly thought so, but their lack of success is not unimportant. The “new south” probably needs a new ideology to go with it. What I think about when listening to Third Position guys is just how little has happened intellectually on the Right in the last century. In responding to the Left, they could never move past fascism.

      • Occidental Dissent has gone “full socialist” Yang Gang with a lot of historical and political background stuff lately and I don’t think their readership has tanked. They may be open to the new ideas I agree they need, to the extent any political ideas can be new. Openly embracing fascism or socialism in America is kryptonite but you could put together an essentially fascist or socialist policy platform, strongly counter-signal attempts to label it as such and stay viable. Mixing the right policy ingredients would be important but personnel would be critical. It would take someone with Jared Taylor’s self-restraint to resist the relentless ploys by media left and right to make you wear their side’s Devil costume. A big part of our problem may be that we feel obligated to give source-credit for our ideas rather than just saying “I want $1000 a month because it’s good for my people in 2019 America, not because Marx or Lenin. I want the death penalty for heroin dealers because I live here, not because Hitler or Heidegger.” While I personally respect the Southern and German traditions that have been buried with the straw men of revisionist history, we can’t move forward if we’re constantly paying public fealty to a demonized past. We need to answer attempts at labeling us by globalist apparatchiks ( “Are you HitlerLenin”) by saying “century-old dead dictators and their beliefs aren’t relevant here. Stop living in the past. Here’s what we want to accomplish now and moving forward.”

        • Hunter Wallace of Occidental Dissent is a very easily gaslight individual. He let his hatred of Ricky Vaughn push him into associating with costumed retards he was mocking only a few months prior.

          I haven’t read OD since the Vaughn dox.

          • There must be a way to screen these people. Serious, real people will not do ANYTHING because there are so many retards and spergs on the fringes.

          • Johnny55, since the White Movement has no organizational framework of any kind there is no way to screen ‘these people.’ In any event, people who can’t put up with a little background noise aren’t going to be of much use when it gets real. I may have taken a few too many Black Pills lately, but I don’t see useful resistance developing in any Anglosphere country. It is going to be, “I’m all in favor of LEGAL immigration” and “The Democrats are the REAL racists” until the stage goes dark.

          • He’s learning. As far as SoNats go, he’s a leader like it or not. I’ll give him credit for admitting that UTR was a bad idea and changing his approach.

      • This is why a “workers” or “labour” party is literally I think the only thing that makes sense and, in code, speaks to the truth as to who you’re talking to. It serves so many functions, it’s literally perfect for our cause.

        Any serious thinker and reader eventually comes to the realization that WEALTH is not gold, it is not diamonds, it is not debt, it is not interest, IT IS THE PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY of the people. That is how Japan became the no. 2 economy in the world with literally no natural resources or mineral wealth.

17. “here is a surprising amount of overlap between Southern nationalism and Canadian nationalism.”

    I never thought I’d read that statement. Definitely have to listen to that podcast.

    • Primarily their enemies, was my first thought,

    • Im not surprised. They are both branches on the anglo-american tree that have long struggled to survive under the shadow of yankee power

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