The China Questions

The trade war with China is heating up, so the usual suspects are now turning up in the media to pronounce on the issue. There is the sense that many of the pundits are relieved to take a break from discussing the culture war that surrounds the Trump presidency and the Progressive response to it. Talking about trade and global economics feels like old times. Here is a longish post from David Goldman, the man behind Spengler of the Asia Times, addressing the trade war.

As is always the case in these matters, the Michael Crichton observation about the media should be kept in mind. The growing rift between China and the United States is a complicated matter by itself. The impact it will have on global trade, the US economy and geopolitics is even more complex. Even people paid to risk real money in these areas don’t have a firm grasp of all the moving pieces. The people posting in the media know even less. Often they know nothing at all.

That does not mean there is nothing we can know. The first question, in any heated trade dispute between two countries, is “who is buying and who is selling?” and the related question is, “What is being traded?” In this regard, trade disputes are not a lot different from disputes between customers and vendors. How they proceed and how the end is entirely controlled by the relationship and the products in question. That determines who has the most leverage in the dispute.

In this case, the relationship is easy to sort. U.S. imports from China totaled $539.5 billion in 2018. U.S. exports were $179.3 billion. That export total is about 7% of all U.S. exports for 2018. Put another way, the U.S. market is about 5% of the Chinese economy, assuming the fake Chinese economic numbers are even close to reality, which is surely not the case. The Chinese market is less than one percent of the U.S. economy in 2018. Imports are about 3% of the U.S. economy.

Right away, the relationship between China is the U.S. is not an equal one, in terms of dollars, but also in terms of impact. Then there is the nature of trade between the two countries. Almost all of the U.S. exports to China in 2018 were aircraft parts, electronic components and car parts. In many cases, these are either high precision items the Chinese cannot produce or they have intellectual property that the Chinese will try to steal, so they are made in the U. S. and sent to China.

This is why Trump is playing hardball. He believes he has far less to lose than the Chinese in a trade war. Even if all trade with China comes to an end, the cost to the U.S. economy is not going to be devastating. In fact, it will be hardly noticed. Much of that trade will be replaced with other cheap labor countries, as it is not really trade in the conventional sense. America’s economic relationship with China is about off-shoring manufacturing to dodge labor, tax and environmental laws.

This is a point that cannot be made enough. When American producers sell good to Canada, and Canadian producers sell good to America, that’s trade. When American producers move manufacturing to Mexico, then bring those goods back home under a tariff free regime, that’s not trade. China is not selling the world anything the world does not have or cannot make. What China is selling is a safe haven to avoid the labor, tax and environmental laws that exist in the West.

That does not mean there can be no impact. That’s the other set of questions that can be examined from the outside. China can play a long game, as the Chinese leaders are not facing annual elections and endless media scrutiny. The West, particularly Trump, are in an endless election cycle. Any little blip in the economy is magnified by the media and then fed into the political calculus. While this trade war will inflict more pain on China, they have a much higher pain threshold than Trump.

That’s the theory. It is not all that clear just how much pain Trump will suffer from this standoff with China. The timing actually works in his favor. The slow buildup not only gives American business time to adjust, it gives the political class time to cast it as the typical good guy versus bad guy story. Xi Jinping is not exactly a lovable Jackie Chan type of guy, so casting him as a villain will be easy. In other words, Trump may be trading a little economic capital for a lot of political capital.

Then there is the question of just how much pain China can take and for how long. It is just assumed by Western analysts that the Chinese can absorb any amount of suffering for as long as it takes. After all, China weathered the Cultural Revolution without a mass revolt by the people. Mao had to die before the party moved to end the madness. Why would the Chinese people revolt over a slight down turn in the economy? Why would the party move against Xi Jinping, if the trade war contracts her economy?

No one can know this, but we do know that wealthy people are far more sensitive to small changes in the economy than poor people. We see this in the West. A small down turn has the middle class turning against their party, but a generation long depression in coal country has not caused a revolt. That same reality may be true in China. There are a lot of people living bourgeois lifestyles along the Chinese coast, all financed by one-sided trade with the United States and her allies.

While all of this economic 4-D chess will occupy the pundits, there may be a simple answer to what is going on with China. It could simply be that China has become a liability to the West. The benefits of moving manufacturing to China has been consumed at this point. What’s left is the liability, which is currency manipulation, IP theft, espionage and financial shenanigans. China is running out of friends in Western capitals. The appetite for tolerating this stuff may be waning.


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Carl B.
Guest
Carl B.

Quote:

“The appetite for tolerating this stuff may be waning.”

Corporate/Globalist Media, the GOPe, and the Democrats are 100% behind tolerating this stuff.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

China has been at war with the US since 1950. The US politicians who pushed to let them into the WTO should be tried as traitors and hung.

Patrick Henry
Guest
Patrick Henry

And recall that prior to WTO accession China’s MFN status required annual renewal by Congress. The cynic in me likes to think there’s too much money to be made in China for multinational Equestrian corporations with no national allegiance to not be there, even with things such as IP theft. It is just a cost of doing business. On the other hand, maybe people will wake up to SOE control of essentially every critical sector of the Chinese economy: banking, manufacturing, raw materials, telecomms and agriculture.

Member

The Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is important to keep in mind and I think equally important is the Dunning-Kruger effect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Georgie
Guest
Georgie

Do you remember the one that Steve Sailer often talks about, where you can see a phenomenon more clearly if there’s a word for it?

wpinbacker
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wpinbacker

The Sapir–Whorf hypothesis

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Too bad Teaparty Doc isn’t around to confirm this, but I read that people tend to revolt when things had gotten better — then start slipping back again. And that is what is happening in china. Spengler should just fukking move to China he washes their shriveled balls so much; “muh calculus!”. He is a pompous fraud and very safely ignored. Unsurprisingly, all he sees and cares about is money. Absolutely no sense of manufacturing being a strategic and national security issue. You get the sense he would enjoy negotiating the surrender of the West to China. One point I… Read more »

Zeroh Tollrants
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Zeroh Tollrants

Spengler and Thomas Friedman should be forced to hold a public Chinese ball washing contest to settle once and for all, who is the king.
My money may be on Friedman.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

now that would be worth seeing 😛

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

Also, what happened to Tea Party Doc? I loved reading his comments.

JR99
Guest
JR99

I don’t know who will win but I know who deserves to win: China, because it actually cares about promoting its majority Han population at the expense of others, while the US cares about promoting anyone at the expense of its white majority. This is barbarity against nature in its most basic form.

Member

Agree strongly. Their politicians haven’t sold out to the zmans new best friends, the jews and clearly prioritize their people’s welfare first.

Guest
Guest
Guest

This is not really even a contest. In twenty years China will still be China. The country we now call the United States will be Mexico Norte. Demographics is destiny.

All China has to do is wait and avoid getting sucked into a shooting war. I think it can manage that.

Exile
Member
Exile

Lotta truth in that, but China still has a long climb and they’re sensitive to quality of leadership issues due to centralization. If I had to bet, you’re calling the right shot. Average IQ 106-ish, no major distribution skew or other funny-math (https://theslittyeye.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/iq-geography-in-china/). They’ve historically avoided major external conflicts and are known for playing the long game with a lot of irons the fire at once. The people betting on them to collapse b/c cooking the books are taking the longer-shot gamble.

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

“…they’re sensitive to quality of leadership issues due to centralization. ” Indeed. They might ultimately decide to move to liberal democracy, i.e. fake democracy, themselves, to secure their position better. When the peasants get angry, and when the liberal elite class’ propaganda efforts aren’t quite effective at getting the masses to believe the “correct” things, the liberal elite can move new politicians into place in order to placate them, then work behind the scenes to ensure nothing “unreasonable” occurs. The peasants get the illusion of “equal recognition”, i.e. that they are free and equal to all other men in society,… Read more »

DLS
Guest
DLS

I dunno. China is getting old fast, and has a major male/female imbalance. They have a smarter homogenous population, but they have to steal our ideas due to their lack of creative geniuses. Doesn’t make the US forecast any rosier, but we both have our problems.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

plus they are committing ecocide (air, water, and land pollution). losing tons of farmland to desertification. and then there are all the weird and deadly disease bubbling up all over the place. not a bright future at all.

Ris Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris Eruwaedhiel

China had a huge male/female imbalance in past Imperial times due to widespread female infanticide and the propensity for wealthy men to scoop up many of the remaining females.

Yves Vannes
Member

China has had the run of all our gov, univ and private labs for at least 3 decades. They’ve ripped us blind and they’re still doing it.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

and none of the upvotes will move there.

Drake
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Drake

China can fracture along cultural lines at least as easily as the U.S.

JR99
Guest
JR99

America is no more free than China and in many ways much less free. In america you can criticize government but if you talk about race, gender, IQ differences you will lose your job and be unemployable forever. even with being able to criticize government, if you criticize the left your social media accounts will be banned or shadow banned in conjunction with the left in government . The USG records every single electronic communication you make, which can and will be used to blackmail or embarrass you at any time, and there is enormous propaganda fed to you by… Read more »

MemeWarVet
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MemeWarVet

It’s almost as if a tiny ethnic minority doesn’t rule over China and Russia!

Marko
Guest
Marko

Each country (China, Russia, US) has its own form(s) of censorship and coercion. “Free speech” in the US means you can criticize, insult, and expose powerful people…but you cannot make any hay of their ethnicity. In China, you cannot criticize, insult, or expose powerful people in public…but casual prejudice and racism is rampant and tolerated. (Russia, which I know less about, is probably closer to China in this way.) In the US, elites fear that racialism will lead to societal disorder; in China, elites fear that exposing party leaders will lead to societal disorder. It’s very interesting how the US,… Read more »

Rod1963
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Rod1963

Then move to China if it’s such a paradise.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

>>>Then move to China if it’s such a paradise.<<<

China is the ethnic homeland of the Han. It is for the Han, by the Han, and of the Han.

I almost feel bad calling out a Boomerpost this retarded, because there are some really awesome individuals of that generation who post here. That being said, Murica!posting is just a cope and I hope that all of us, regardless of age, can move away from that sort of nonsense.

This is the land of my ancestors. I want it back.

Marko
Guest
Marko

Correction: Eastern China – specifically East-Central China – is the home of the Han. Southern China is arguably Han. But the vast northern and western regions of China are not. China, remember, is an expansionist, authoritarian state. The “Han homeland” would be a mere slice of China.

Soverytired1
Guest
Soverytired1

As more videos get out of entire cities being built in China that are literally empty, with row after row of poorly built skyscrapers (unfinished on the inside) going unused become common knowledge in the west, I think it will wake up the most ardent “pro-China” hacks in the US to the fact that something is really, really out of wack.

When China can make the pre-2008 US housing market look sane, you know you’re in big trouble.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Was watching a vblog post of this brit who has been living in china (shinjzen) for 12 years. showed how even in the lived in buildings, they aren’t doing any maintenance on the shared spaces, with lots of decay and things breaking down. and this was in expensive buildings. also, they always use poor quality materials and fittings — even in expensive buildings. the entire country is one giant con. just like Spengler.

Member

You might read Godfree Roberts over at UNZ.
He persuasively debunks the anti China propaganda spoon Fed to the western peasantry. His paragraph of the Empty Cities meme is worth reading

Exile
Member
Exile

I hope Z’s right about Woke Capital fatigue with China. As with almost every one of our other struggles, the China trade problem would be much easier to solve if some of our billionaire class simply instructed their hirelings in Congress and throughout the U.S. government/media/academic complex to solve the problem. In the case of Congress, detailed instructions would be required, but there are plenty of smart guys on their payrolls that already write everything the Congress legislates or even says in public anyway. 90% of our present populist discontent is simply the result of the elite class roadblocking the… Read more »

Maus
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Maus

Yang is hardly a rich man, let alone a second-tier plutocrat. According to Forbes, his net worth is a mere $1 million. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2019/08/14/heres-the-net-worth-of-every-2020-presidential-candidate/
Yang is just another guy like Elon Musk with tons of wild ideas about improving society, most of which are really expensive but ultimately would fail. The Left can keep him.

Exile
Member
Exile

Yang’s not the main issue, he’s just the best example we have so far in this election. The main point is to stop framing everything in Left-Right and form a movement based around our own interests.

The present frame gives “the Right” muh tax cuts but makes them live with Tranny Story Hour, and gives “the Left” muh social justice but makes them live with 3 roommates while pushing coffee 20 hours a week

Prussian
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Prussian

What are you talking about?! How dare you! Capitalism and freedom indubitably yield Progress, you commie!
comment image

Seriously though, fantastic post.

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

““Where did America go wrong?” many will ask, searching out some terrible error from the recent past in the hope of applying a remedy. An observer might feel as if he has been sucked into an absurd alternate reality similar to the narratives of popular science fiction. In the second installment of the ‘Back to the Future’ films, hero Marty McFly finds his hometown, the quaint Hill Valley, in a state of anarcho-tyranny under the control of idiot-villain Biff Tannen. Marty’s antagonist managed to make himself a wealthy national icon through time travel and ruled his empire from the casino… Read more »

Monsieur le Baron
Guest

When I look at the Imperial Capital, I see men in their 70s lording over men in their 50s. The ancient lead the aged.

Such an affair chafes. Only a whipped dog would want to wait decades for a chance at the crown.

The Yugoslav revolution wasn’t just a communist revolution, but one where the youth overthrew their elders and the age of leadership fell below 30.

JohnTyler
Guest
JohnTyler

I wonder how US domestic taxes, policies, rules, laws, regulations, etc., plays/played a role in US companies establishing production facilities in other lands. I can’t help but believe that it’s a significant factor, but that’s a wild guess on my part. Anybody have any ideas?? Also, Germany is one of the world’s largest exporters, yet producing anything there (I speak of German domiciled firms) is really expensive. So how is it that their export products are so competitive?? Any ideas, anybody?? Does the German govt. give their firms tax breaks for stuff exported? As for China, all one can predict… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

There’s some tongue-fu with VAT’s and trade rules that give Germany “shadow” duties and tariffs and functional export supports – Buchanan went over some of it in Great Betrayal and Republic and I think it’s still in force. The EU also functions as a captive export market for Germany. There’s an old saw about the EU that it was formed to give Germans a market and let French farmers play bocci all day. US domestic labor and tax policy has always been a huge driver for the Open Door. The guys selling us the libertarian snake oil about GDP and… Read more »

Maus
Guest
Maus

One clear example of business-killing regulation is California’s mandates regarding electricity distribution. To promote carbon neutrality that counteract “climate change”, electricity must be a mix of certain minimum percentages of wind, solar and other green energy sources. This minimum threshold increases to 100% by 2045. It is the predominate reason that California has some of the highest national costs for electricity per KW. Ironically, the area around northern CA that could use 100% hydroelectric power from Shasta Dam cheaply, must still purchase relatively more expensive wind and solar generated electricity to comply with the regs. Insanity!

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

here’s a hint about German exports: they aren’t shitty BBq’s and toxic kids toys. Here’s another hint: rhymes with “bercedes”.

Lorenzo
Guest
Lorenzo

German cost of production is high, but the quality of its manufactured goods is also high. Much of their industry includes so-called “Mittelstand” firms, medium sized and often privately or family owned enterprises. Even BMW is 50% owned by 3 individuals. The Mittelstand companies are therefore immune from the whip of the financier driving them to cut quality and squeeze the loyalty out of their employees.

This probably has something to do with their success in exporting.

dad29
Guest

US laws and regs surrounding labor, enviro, safety, and taxes are killers. In a well-run manufacturing business, the cost of direct labor is only about 5-6% of the total cost-of-goods sold. In the USA, there’s overtime cost, health-insurance cost, retirement-bennies cost, OSHA cost, all of which have to be added to “direct labor” numbers.

In Communist China, none of the above have to be added, and that “direct labor” number might be much less than 5-6%. Slavery is good, ya’know.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Don’t forget affirmative action, which is a huge extra cost. It forces you to hire and keep incompetent people on staff, paying them as much as you pay the competent people who fix their screw-ups. In China, underperforming employees can be summarily fired without making a federal case out of it.

Member

Taxes, policies, rules, and other stuff are straight up excuses for hiding the elephant in the room when offshoring/outsourcing happen, WAGES.

dad29
Guest

Really? I’ll repeat myself for your benefit:

In a well-run manufacturing business, the cost of direct labor is only about 5-6% of the total cost-of-goods sold

Was that slow enough for you?

Whiskey
Guest
Whiskey

China apparently wanted three bases in … Greenland and Trump forced Denmark to renege on the deal they had made with Xi. China has made no secret of its ambition to own pretty the entire Pacific right up to the California coast. Meanwhile half of Western Canada and Southern California are owned by China. Half of Irvine CA is nothing but Chinese owned empty apartments. The security establishment is now in panic mode knowing that offshoring manufacturing has allowed China the ability to have drones, thinly crewed ships and subs to match the US Navy in maybe 10-15 years. And… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

you are wrong about so much; I guess not being able to get laid does that to a fellow. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that Irvine is not half empty apartments. just fukking shoot yourself and spare the rest of the world your eeyore view of things.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

If the Chinese will let us have our country back and expel our current foreign occupiers, I’ll happily pledge allegiance to the Little Red Book.

Exile
Member
Exile

Murdoch-Murdoch “Yellow Dawn,” catch that fever…

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

>>>Murdoch-Murdoch “Yellow Dawn,” catch that fever…<<<

Their best episode in quite a long time, that was.

Whenever a commenter here repeats stale, GOPe talking points, I hear it in R/The Donald’s voice.

Member

From personal experience I know that China does not respect the idea of intellectual property. That alone is reason enough not to do business with them. That brings me to my favorite misogynistic question. ” What does that have to do with the price of naked chicks in China?” The answer is nothing. Forgive me. I say these things for my own benefit.

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

US national debt is about 100% of GDP; high but manageable in current low interest environment. China is at 300% of GDP!? And their economy is contracting.

Guest
Guest
Guest

That is comparing apples to oranges. The 300% figure you are quoting includes all government debt, corporate debt, and household debt.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-debt/chinas-debt-tops-300-of-gdp-now-15-of-global-total-iif-idUSKCN1UD0KD

China’s national debt is around 50%-55% of their GDP, depending upon which source you cite.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/270329/national-debt-of-china-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

Thanks for the links 🙂 You are right, any comparison with China is apples-to-oranges, given the nature of their government/society. The point is, they are drowning in debt and there is no way to know anything as far as total amount. how much is bad, etc. Unless they have found a way to “beat gravity” it’s all going to come crashing down. If I was betting, the trigger for the crash will be when Trump goes after them in the F/X markets (to counter the yuan devaluations).

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

They are stretched thinner than most people realize due to having a tentacle in many costly land grabs, all over the world. Their stealth takeover of major parts of Africa is on shaky ground.

Ris Eruwaedhiel
Guest
Ris Eruwaedhiel

Why is their takeover on shaky ground?

The Babe
Member
The Babe

Xi Jinping is not exactly a lovable Jackie Chan type of guy, so casting him as a villain will be easy. I suspect that the experienced fiction writers in the media can recast any villain as a hero, and any hero as a villain. Trump is always the villain in the CFU (CultMarx Fictional Universe™.) I’ve actually done some business in China. Total nightmare. They don’t just try to cheat and wheedle, they try to humiliate you in every deal. Make you lose face. It’s part of their thing. Not just in business–in daily interactions. I lived there for a… Read more »

Someone
Guest
Someone

Damn, now that Trump has stolen the left’s issue, they are no concerned about us peons except when we would like less government and tax cut or less importation of the turd world into our communities.

I guess I’ll have to pay an extra nickel or dime at Harbor Freight for a few items I buy once in a while. I don’t really buy electronics all that much. Bought a small TV in clearance isle at Best Buy. Other than, it’s a used desktop or laptop for me.

Phil O’Dendron
Guest
Phil O’Dendron

I like to remind my lefty acquaintances that in 2009-10 they used to say “I’d gladly pay 10% more for a can of soup so everyone can have health insurance.”

Well, they can pay 10% more for their phone/tablet to have it made in Nebraska/Ohio, etc.

Ant Man Bee
Guest

Good analysis. It gets even more disturbing when you go one level deeper, or if you are just frank about it. You ask, What is being traded? At bottom, what is being traded is our way of life. We are the Indians selling Manhattan Island for blankets and trinkets. We are selling the American way of life in exchange for cheap rubber and electronic garbage. We are selling our own entire country out from under our children’s feet, because we have nothing else left to sell, except access to American social capital, American infrastructure, and the best real estate on… Read more »

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

‘At bottom, what is being traded is our way of life.” Applause,

Z and others have written about the strip mining our our local social capital to benefit global corporations and foreigners.

Member

You need to take all the land between the Rockies, Red River , and Appalachian Mountains and declare an independent country. I don’t think anybody will fight against you or have the will to do anything.

LineInTheSand
Guest
LineInTheSand

How did that work out in Arkansas in 1957?

Member

Someone should point out to The Orange Man that the major import that should be taxed when it comes to the States is people.

Official Bologna Tester
Guest
Official Bologna Tester

thezman said: “Why would the Chinese people revolt over a slight down turn in the economy? Why would the party move against Xi Jinping, if the trade war contracts her economy?” Well, according to this article in the Atlantic from Jan 5, 2012 . There’s a lot of crap goes on in China that most people aren’t aware of. I’m not so sure China is as strong as the financial media would have us believe.

” How China Stays Stable Despite 500 Protests Every Day.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/how-china-stays-stable-despite-500-protests-every-day/250940/

Member

Ever wondered why there’s so much media coverage of unrest in China and none on the Gilet Jaunes in France?
The coverage it does get is the usual bullshit.
Nice expose here
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/05/10/the-propaganda-war-on-the-gilets-jaunes/

Official Bologna Tester
Guest
Official Bologna Tester

bilejones said: “Ever wondered why there’s so much media coverage of unrest in China and none on the Gilet Jaunes in France?”
The corporate media’s sins of commission or omission no longer surprise me in the least. That’s their job.

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

“That could pit the Communist Party against some of the Chinese firms and individuals who have been enriched (and have entrenched their influence accordingly) by three decades of export-led growth. It’s not clear whether CCP will be able to take on these Chinese economic interests.”

That is a very dangerous situation for the political elite.

Honest question: who, in the long-run, are more likely to be concerned with the well-being of the Chinese people, the CCP men, or China’s Money class?

Member

You didn’t mention the Fentanyl that has killed several times as many Americans as the various terrorists have. 23,000Kg was seized at a Mexican port. WMD is an act of war, and we went into Iraq for far less. Then there’s China’s human rights violations. But, EXACTLY!: “This is a point that cannot be made enough. When American producers sell good to Canada, and Canadian producers sell good to America, that’s trade. When American producers move manufacturing to Mexico, then bring those goods back home under a tariff free regime, that’s not trade. China is not selling the world anything… Read more »

Official Bologna Tester
Guest
Official Bologna Tester

thezman said: “That does not mean there is nothing we can know. The first question, in any heated trade dispute between two countries, is “who is buying and who is selling?” Here’s a cute little cartoon vid on trade imbalance called ” Thriftville vs Squanderville.”
Think us and China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DvuyvuHmJI

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

The key point for me is that all of this is over the 3% of the economy that is what we import. In the big scheme of things, 3% is a rounding error. As Ant Man Bee pointed out, we are giving away our way of life for these imports (and the export of the jobs, the pollution, the intellectual theft, and so on). China and others have deftly identified the individuals who have the juice to allow things to happen, and also can be cheaply bought off (the Clintons and Biden, to name a couple).

Official Bologna Tester
Guest
Official Bologna Tester

Dutch said: “China and others have deftly identified the individuals who have the juice to allow things to happen, and also can be cheaply bought off (the Clintons and Biden, to name a couple).”

Check this out. Here’s an artical intitled: “A Chinese Spy Worked In Senator Dianne Feinstein’s Office For Twenty Years ” https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-03/chinese-spy-worked-sen-feinsteins-office-twenty-years
That Commie bag of wrinkles knows tones of our most sensitive information. Where the f**k was the FBI?

A B
Guest
A B

My problem with Goldman’s analysis is we don’t have reliable numbers about China. I visited Shenzen in the late ‘80s, and while the buildup of the city was underway by then (there were truly massive numbers of bicycles though), five minutes outside the city limit one still saw farms being worked with oxen. A visit to several of the Chinese megacities a couple years back showed amounts of outwardly-visible advancement in 30 years that is truly mind boggling. But it can’t help but be a hollow advancement, it all happened too fast. Something working in our favor IMO is the… Read more »

Zeroh Tollrants
Guest
Zeroh Tollrants

When we’ve been there on business, they tend to take a LOT of pics of my 6’2, 260 lb hubby & they also have this weird habit of wanting to touch/rub his very hairy forearms, lol. That’s also happened in S Korea, as well. I’m 5’2 so I don’t draw much attn other than I’m about 25 lbs fatter than your avg Asian.
Pretty amusing stuff. 1

Karl McHungus
Guest
Karl McHungus

if he charged them to touch him, they would love him even more 🙂

Nunnya Bidnez, jr.
Guest
Nunnya Bidnez, jr.

“any non-Chinese who claims to understand it is lying”
Are you familiar with Sidney Rittenberg??
his autobiography is “The Man Who Stayed Behind”
He emigrated back to the US in the early ’80s, with his Chinese wife and 4 kids.
His son got a job working at a McDonalds in the Bronx. His other kids are doing well in the US too.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

We are a consumer economy. Domestic supply lines were ripped out of this country by the 90’s. While we can go back to manufacturing our own things, the path won’t be easy and will involve a significant amount of pain. This is good pain, but it is nonetheless pain. Even then, places like Vietnam will inherit the windfall. An economy where the average American has no savings and 7 year auto loans are the thing to do, even small price increases of Chinese goods will be felt. Moderate and large increases in product cost will not go unnoticed. The economy… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

Can confirm. They have this down to a science – hit the store, grab Item A, or Items B/C/D to hit the mark, cased out beforehand. Stores have tried to harden the targets, make them less accessible, armed security, behind-the-counter or warehousing, but it’s a losing battle, You can devise all the elaborate laws and security systems you like, but when the system refuses to lock up repeat misdemeanor offenders, you’re going to have a shitload of $800 thefts, If you’re planning on visiting, don’t bring anything you can’t afford to have stolen. And bring sensible shoes, ladies – it’s… Read more »

Member

Most of the Chinese crap I bought has proven to be made of inferior materials and methods. I can see why we only use them to assemble our goods. They can’t be trusted. If they go away, I won’t miss them.

dad29
Guest

Your challenge, friend, is to buy something that does NOT have ChiCom components built in. Good luck!!

Ursula
Guest
Ursula

We should be making everything we want here in the U.S. anyway. To hell with these people crying about their intellectual property being stolen by the Chinese who are manufacturing it. Make it all in the U.S.A.

guest
Guest
guest

I’m reading a few Chinese law blogs, a decade ago they were still giving legal advice on how to enter China, today they give advice how to leave without getting kidnapped in the process, because you can actually be held against your will as a western manager, if your Chinese business partners (which you have, since it’s all joint ventures) claim something is unsettled or unpaid, hence winding down is becoming a cloak-and-dagger operation.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

China hardlining is the one thing I never see Trump’s detractors attacking him for. It suggest that even the elite is starting to fear the prospect of a country w 4 times the people starting to get its act together. It does not take a Clausewitz or Sun Tzu to see that if they really did that, the US cannot stand up to it in the long run. But there is another interesting possibility. As any dictator worth his salt knows, nothing unites a nation, otherwise fractured or not, so much as an external enemy or threat. The US was… Read more »

Member

Z Man, your observation is pretty spot on except one major point, stuff that China makes today at the price it sells and at the scale it delivers cannot be replicated anywhere, this is why all the fat cats in US are extremely worried that they may have to forgo some of their stock option gaines in future years to pay for higher labor cost and disruptions. Think of the year China really took off, around 2002 in my books (thanks to the traitor Bush family), we already had NAFTA for a few years, deindustrialization had started but leveled off… Read more »

Prussian
Guest
Prussian

One doesn’t need to look far to find that the Chinese are, to a very large extent, terrible people (their treatment of animals makes me STRONGLY desire to nuke their country from end to end). This, in spite of the fact that their IQ’s are high, and Jews are few and far between. I’m wondering, does this count as evidence against those who would attribute the West’s woes to the JQ and white dysgenics? On the other hand, both the elite and masses of China seem to be nationalistic (exactly how common is the term “baizuo” I wonder?). I’m quite… Read more »

David Zimmerman
Guest
David Zimmerman

Great article. FYI: in 2003, an American spy attended a meeting between China and Russia. The main topic: the take over of America. Russia was not interested in occupying the mainland; they merely want Alaska and Canada. China, realizing their inhabitable land is dwindlng and that America is similar to China, desperately want to conquer and occupy this great country! China and Russia have a pact against a common enemy, the USA. Then, there’s Isalm, an ally of Russia, otherwise known as the Red/Green axis of evil. At one time the goal of Islam was to conquer America, and the… Read more »