The Great Madness

Has the world gone mad? It certainly seems that way to some of us. Even the most cynical never imagined the government shutting down the country for fear of a virus, but it has suddenly become the new normal. The cynical, if they thought of it at all, would have thought the opposite. Instead of a great lock down, the response would have been for the beautiful people to insulate themselves from harm, while abandoning the rest of us to the plague. Instead, we have all gone mad together.

Not everyone has got the fever, that is this panic fever, not the one caused by the Chinese coronavirus. Our world is now firmly divided into two camps. There are those fully invested in the great panic over the virus and there are those who look at the other camp, gobsmacked by what appears to be a general madness. Those in panic look at the rest of us the same way preppers look at normal people. They just assume the gods will strike us down for doubting the virus

Of course, the people in the skeptic camp could be the ones suffering from some form of madness that prevents them from seeing the threat. The trouble is, the great plague is not exactly lighting up the scoreboard. America has tested over 600,000 people suspected of having the virus. Over 500,000 tested negative. Of the positives, 12,000 needed hospital care. In a country of over 320 million people with 200,000 empty hospital beds at any one time, that’s not much of a crisis.

Yet, despite the numbers, formerly sober-minded people continue to carry on as if there are bodies in the streets. Steve Sailer, a man not known for excitability, is calling this virus a great adversary of the human race. Greg Cochran has completely lost his marbles over this thing. Geneticist and HBD enthusiast Razib Khan is in hiding, convinced the end times are upon us. In fact, the whole HBD community is a click away from fleeing to Antarctica to wait out the end of civilization.

Of course, part of the panic, a symptom of that particular virus, is a set of abracadabra phrases that have become so common they seem like something from a secret society, understood only by the initiates. The duller sorts chant about “exponential growth” while others talk about “the hospitals being overwhelmed.” That’s why we have to “flatten the curve” and “slow the spread.” These incantations are to chase away doubt and reinforce the belief that people are dying in the streets.

The dying in the streets bit is not much of an exaggeration. A popular bit of folklore now among the panicked is some version of the anonymous ER doctor or nurse relaying how they are overwhelmed and letting people die in the hallways. This urban legend turned up in China, Washington, Italy, New York and now New Orleans. Formerly sensible people now pass these whoppers around on-line, never bothering to think that maybe they are being fed a just-so story by people seeking attention.

One emerging aspect to the madness is the moral dimension. The HBD crowd seems to have been hardest hit. They spend a lot of time contemplating nature and their fellow man’s refusal to respect it. Part of what is driving them now is a sense that nature is going to finally exact some revenge. In other words, this panic is part of a strange revenge fantasy, where they are finally vindicated by biological reality. This sudden sense of moral purpose has made them immune to reason.

Another aspect to this general panic, unrelated to the virus itself, is a different type of revenge fantasy. Many people are cheering the collapse of the economy and civil life on the mistaken belief that what emerges from the rubble will have them at the top of the social hierarchy. This is a phenomenon shared across the political spectrum. It seems to be most popular with young people unhappy with the status quo and far too caught up in purge fantasies to be reached with facts and reason.

Probably the most salient aspect to this panic is the role of women. As has been noted too many times to count, the West is now a gynocracy. It is not a matriarchy, as women have stopped bearing children and stopped caring about children. Look around and you see childless women in positions of authority all over the West. In fact, these are women who reached their status by rejecting every aspect of womanhood. The West is now a world run by middle-aged childless women.

Anyone who has been around women in a crisis has observed a strange phenomenon among childless adult females. Some switch gets flipped in a crisis where their protective instincts get misdirected at the adults in the room. This part of their nature was never allowed to mature in the raising of children, so it comes bursting forth in an incoherent desire to help when their help is not needed. They become like mother ducks loudly herding the brood to safety.

For a society run by such women, every crisis is met with demands that everyone shelter in place. Notice how over the last few decades that public officials no longer call for volunteers or tell people to pitch in and work together. Such independent action violates the frightened female’s sense of duty to her brood. Instead, mild weather events now close the schools and force people to work from home. This virus scare is every middle-aged women’s Hunger Games moment.

Mass panics are a known phenomenon. The general panic that took place in France between July 22 and August 6 1789 is known as The Great Fear. It was a period of rural unrest, driven by both a grain shortage and rumors of an aristocrats’ “famine plot” to starve the peasants. The exact reason for this panic is in dispute. Ergotism is a favorite reason for those with a certain sense of humor, but most historians consider it one of the primary causes of the French Revolution.

At some point, the bloom comes off this lock-down rose once people start to feel the real cost of listening to madmen. People will remember that the same folks who swore Boris and Natasha had used their mind control devise to install Trump in the White House are the many of the same people peddling this panic. Necessity will force a lot of people to stop going along with what they have suspected from the start is nothing more than a mass panic. Soon, this all comes to an end.

Like the Great Fear, the Great Madness will leave a mark, or at least it should leave a mark on our society. You never can be sure about these things, as the West seems to be unusually immune to learning from these events. Two centuries ago The Great Fear meant the end of the feudal order and eventually a revolution. It was not the sole cause of the revolution, maybe not the main cause. It was certainly an example of how the old order was no longer able to maintain order.

It is too soon to know what this panic means for us. Perhaps it further undermines the legitimacy of the system and the people that profit from it. Perhaps it sets off social changes that slowly transform our society in ways we have yet to imagine. Maybe the fever breaks and this event, like the Russian hoax, gets forgotten. Given what most likely awaits on the other side of the lock-down, it is hard to imagine this great madness being forgotten. There’s always a price to be paid for following madmen.


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Gasman
Gasman
4 months ago

Out of the park, ZMan! Out. Of. The. Park!

I couldn’t come up with the word that sums up the cause of the vast majority of the problems in our society, but there is nothing more applicable than gynocracy.

joey junger
joey junger
Reply to  Gasman
4 months ago

In Deutschland they’re already reporting that domestic violence is way up because of this. Of course it is: Some women don’t know when to relinquish the remote and you got to set them straight. Some feminist pointed out that the home is more dangerous to women statistically than a dark park. Perhaps someone should point out to her that women don’t live in dark parks.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  joey junger
4 months ago

Someone should point out to these women that they commit the majority of domestic violence,
They’re just not terribly good at it and men seem to be ashamed that they are victims.

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/19133-women-more-likely-to-commit-domestic-violence-studies-show

https://www.mintpressnews.com/woman-aggressor-unspoken-truth-domestic-violence/196746/

https://time.com/2921491/hope-solo-women-violence/

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  bilejones
4 months ago

Really? Wow. This confirms even moreso what I previously thought. The root of the problem is that too many men are too weak willed. Women want to be led by a strong man, they say they don’t but they do. Always pay more attention to what people do than what they say. Why do you think they lust after bad boys? Because we pass their shit tests. I hope times get tough, that is pitiful and hard times create hard men. There’s a silver lining for ya.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  FashGordon
4 months ago

Our society reacts brutally often with lethal force to men who stand up to their women too firmly.

This tends to limit male options and for many, celibacy and porn become far better.

The repair option isn’t very pleasant either, essentially it means getting rid of the actual bad actors throwing away large parts of the current society and after forcefully demilitarizing it.

That’s not easy.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  abprosper
4 months ago

What does “too firmly” mean? Lethal force? I dunno what cases you might be referring to but what I meant was strong in willpower. Just say no. A woman lacks the strength the physically harm a man, she can’t “make” you do anything you don’t want to. Would you have trouble physically deescalating a situation with an irate 13 year old? Because that’s about how strong an average woman is. I’ve had a couple situations where a girl freaked out on me. All you gotta do is hold them and prevent them from harming them self or you until they… Read more »

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  FashGordon
4 months ago

There are outliers…married to one. Years ago decked a guy on a commuter train, laid him out flat, broke his nose. Hit him so hard 8mm of bone was pulverized below her knuckle. Felt for the guy. He had to ride to the next stop where the police were meeting him having gotten his ass kicked by a girl in a blue suit, pearls and heels in front of 40 people.

UFO
UFO
Reply to  FashGordon
4 months ago

Well, what I’ve noticed (and I’ve mentioned it here before) is that women can smell weakness. I’m usually pretty strong willed and dominant, but when I get tired (happens often, I have a busy schedule) my girlfriend would notice and suddenly she would say things she doesn’t normally say, try to take the lead, etc. Happened with multiple. There is no “equality” with women – the man is either the benevolent dictator or he is the woman’s mistreated slave. It’s harder to stay dominant now that physical “abuse” is not permitted. I’m not saying you should beat the shit out… Read more »

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  UFO
4 months ago

Once, my girlfriend poured a cup of tea all over me, pushed me, and punched me in the head. I slapped her in the face and she immediately stopped flipping out. “I’m gonna go to bed,” she said. She never tried doing anything physical with me again (except sex).

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  UFO
4 months ago

Punching a woman is like punching a 13 year old, this is something a negroid would do, completely unnecessary and weak as fuck. “the man is either the benevolent dictator or he is the woman’s mistreated slave” Binary light switch brain thinking is also something nogs do, and slapping and punching is not benevolent. A wigger is worse than a nigger, I expect a dindu to act the part, but you have no excuse. I’m not saying women are saintly creatures you must not lay a finger on, I’m saying chill the fuck out because hitting someone with 50% of… Read more »

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  joey junger
4 months ago

“Some women don’t know when to relinquish the remote!” Nice to still laugh….thanks! Few women understand anymore that marriage is teamwork. Women now behave like demanding selfish angry ill-disciplined little girls. I still can’t figure out the evolutionary adaptation/advantage for men to tightly hold that remote surfing-channel switching-surfing. You’re intense and it doesn’t look like a fun brain space to be. I suppose it’s a form of renewing your High T. Don’t interrupt Basic Husband when he’s holding that remote. He looks like he’s intensely piloting a jet. Hmm…..I view him as a testy space alien…guaranteed he thinks the same… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Range Front Fault
4 months ago

Range, my new favorite homeless guy James LaFond blames a lot of female cruelty on what happens when you take someone who’s powerless and give them permission and/or instrumentalities for payback.

You’re not the helpless type, thus your “manlike” attitude to all this.

I can still remember when well-adjusted wahmens with “inner strength” were more common. Nowadays, a gal like that might as well be Helen of Troy – and is probably worth that kind of effort to hang onto.

Penitent Man
Penitent Man
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

I took a college course (required) in gender studies, which honestly was a mandatory coffee klatch for women… but the female professor did have one interesting exercise. She brought up visual advertisements for products that showed women and asked us to imagine males in those advertisements in the same physical positions as the female models in the ads. Vacuous faces, infantile poses or ridiculous expressions of glee. It was interesting when you did the mental exercise (little did I know fast forwarding 25 years men would be taking open-mouthed soyboy selfies). Anyway, I garnered some hate from the females in… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Penitent Man
4 months ago

It’s going to be a mess as young men figure out how to be men. It’s that bad for the younger generation.

On the other hand, they can look to the girls as role models. The girls figuring out how to be feminine will have the hardest time.

This is what we’ve allowed to happen. We don’t deserve what mercy God might show us.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Penitent Man
4 months ago

Hi Penitent! I’ll bet you miss those tough ass Southern women with a sprinkle of magnolia.

Penitent Man
Penitent Man
Reply to  Range Front Fault
4 months ago

I call them a couple of times a month. They are definitely worth talking with. Hope you are well Range!

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Penitent Man
4 months ago

We are just fine and being prudent, not gathering with folks. Salt Lake City on lockdown. Mayor Erin Mendenhall is a totalitarian lefty with a degree in gender studies which qualifies her to boss people around. Gov. Herbert has held out against her…the state is strongly cautioned to stay close to home but no threats. What a difference between the two. I sent an email to Herbert’s office suggesting the problem is within the Salt Lake corridor. Lock those people down and leave southern and eastern Utah alone. The numbers are not here in southwest Utah. Well what do you… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Penitent Man
4 months ago

Funny story. I actually took a feminist studies course waaay back when. Hell, there wasn’t even a Feminist Studies department in those days. But I needed units and it was a night course, so what the hell. I remember nothing of the course, except the instructor and one particular funny incident during lecture. The instructor was a large, mannish, short haired, lesbian. Typical stereotype. She was lecturing on the evils of Freud and his insidious theory of “Penis Envy”. She remarked, “…Freud’s theory of Penis Envy, drives women “wide”…” You could have heard a pin drop, except for a few… Read more »

SidVic
SidVic
Member
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

Lafond is a very dangerous example for men. Accordingly, I kick in to his patron account. My contribution, such as it is, to the arts. Concerning women… My three daughters have been home. Wife is exhausted, but so far holding her own. Was worried for a time that the oldest girl was a genuine psychopath when she was eary teens. She appears to have lined out but the youngest, a 14 teen old, is coming on strong. She got everbody fooled, but i, alone apparently, know, of what lurkes beneath the sweet placid exterior.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

Exile…sweet…thanks! Thus my manlike attitude enhanced with a sense of observation, cultivated patience, a healthy acceptance of reality and a mist of floral and citrus essential oils.
Your thought….powerless becomes payback….is deep stuff for women. Don’t know how we grow away from that.
BH and I went through a bit of a power back and forth. Then we dumped the power play and let surface our natural structure of “separate but equal facilities.” Ran it past him for his take and in his gregarious conversational way replied, “Yep.”

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Range Front Fault
4 months ago

Every civil rights group founded in the 20th Century was not satisfied with legal equality and non-discrimination, but sought privilege, superiority and revenge.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

James LaFond blames a lot of female cruelty on what happens when you take someone who’s powerless and give them permission and/or instrumentalities for payback.

Thus the aggressive attitude exhibited by blacks towards whites and queers towards straights. On the one hand they endlessly claim to be victims while on the other they act like the cock of the walk. I’m a great proponent of Teddy Roosevelt’s maxim to “Walk softly but carry a big stick.”

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  joey junger
4 months ago

Talk to cops who work in areas where there are a lot of lesbian “couples.” Look at how Dinduisha treats her kids in public.

Or date the wrong chick(s). Ask me in person sometime.

This always reminds me of the line in Gene Wolfe’s “Shadow of the Torturer” where Severian the apprentice torturer tells the reader that we used to allow women in our guild, but they proved too cruel, exceeding the punishments required by the authorities, so we take in men only now.

SidVic
SidVic
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

I read accounts where the apache squaws were the most vicious to prisoners.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  SidVic
4 months ago

Lewis & Clarke describe a lot of this, much to the chagrin of NuSchool archaeologists and anthropologists.

Severian
4 months ago

I like it to the Salem Witch Trials. A discharge of a decade’s built up stress, after which the new culture the old folks were barely holding in check takes over. I’m cautiously optimistic. I’ve had people warn me not to call it Chinese flu, lest I be called a racist. I told them I couldn’t care less what the Chinese think, since they just put 20% of us out of a job. Haven’t heard a peep about racism since, and a few more people making bat soup jokes and the like. This might be the end of the neo-Puritans.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

Think McMartin Preschool and Satanic molestation case the AIDS hysteria of 1880’s.

This is a replay of them on a global stage.

Severian
Reply to  Rwc1963
4 months ago

Rwc, I remember those. Which is why I just can’t take the Media’s doom-mongering seriously. This is the, what, 9th time we’re all gonna die!! just since 1970?

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

Call it the Wuhan Virus. Most of the people warning us against “racism” are deans and administrators of universities that have become totally financially addicted to Chinese students and the money they pay (they pay full fare) over the past 15 years. They fear offending their Chinese masters, and loosing the money train.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
4 months ago

And again, Yes, Minister is prescient on this, 40 years ago. Season two, episode two, Doing the Honours. Humphrey works to get an exception for his Oxford college on having overseas students pay full rates for their tuition. “Anything but home students! We only get 500 per head”

Severian
Reply to  BadThinker
4 months ago

Yep. I spent umpteen years in academia; I’m well aware of the impact our Most Favorite Trading Partners have had. Hell, even at the third-rate public college I attended for undergrad, in one of our least intellectual states, way back at the dawn of the Clinton Era (1988-2020)… even there and then, we joked that you needed to know Mandarin to pass chem lab, and we all made “Blade Runner” jokes every time it rained.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

An end to the neo-Puritans? There will never be an end to them because they thrive on human misery. Maybe we should call them “Corona-Puritans”.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

It’s been said that the Salem Witch Trials were the rock on which Theocracy shattered….

Hopefully, decades from now, we’ll be able to say that Corona Panic was the rock on which “I f***ing love science” shattered.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 months ago

One thing this panic has done is expose all the degreed frauds in the medical industry who can’t even do basic math and research. Sadly it looks like the majority are little more than credentialed idiots.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 months ago

Meme, we can only wish. But I suspect not. Scientism is our new religion and religion is never required to be rationale as is any faith based belief.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

A very wise man once wrote, “It is not science versus religion but scientists versus ministers.” There is no conflict between science (which is only knowledge, after all) and religion. The two operate in entirely different spheres. The problem comes when the priests try to extend their sway into territory not properly theirs. Time and again the Bible has been proven to be reliable in its non-theological information. For example, when the Jews took back Palestine, they were able to dig new wells following the Biblical descriptions of where the Patriarch Abraham dug his. For decades archaeologists laughed at the… Read more »

robins111
robins111
4 months ago

Well said. Especially the comments about childless women

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  robins111
4 months ago

If we do decide a witch-burning is the best course of action, this time instead of old women, may I suggest we concentrate on the Cloud people. I would nominate anyone who’s ever received government money or benefits beyond regular salaries or pensions, in other words, those who’ve milked the system at the expense of the Dirt People.

Maus
Maus
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

Hey Ben, be careful about your selection criteria. Probably you and certainly a lot of the people you advocate for are going to receive $1200 “government” money within the month. And most of the Cloud People won’t get that gibsmedat because their AGI is too high. The stimulus check is a distraction. The real weaponized government intervention was the $4 trillion of Fed “infinity cash” propping up a nation drunk on debt. If you’re underwater in a mortgage or auto loan; have credit card debt; owe thousands in student loans for a worthless degree; or run a leveraged hedge fund,… Read more »

Lawdog
Lawdog
Member
Reply to  Maus
4 months ago

Many of us with student loan debt did not have the foresight to choose a lucrative field of study. You can’t blame an 18-year-old for making dumb decisions. Also, I spent most of my student loan refund money on pot.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Lawdog
4 months ago

I wound up with some “student loan” debt on a degree I would never have been allowed to finish. I took out a loan from the base credit union and paid back every last red cent. As for the “not having the foresight to choose a lucrative field of study.” bravo sierra. The internet has been around over 25 years. You could easily have done the research if you had cared to do so. No, while I don’t exactly “blame” an 18 year old for making dumb decisions neither do I choose to either absolve them of responsibility for said… Read more »

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Maus
4 months ago

I will not be the slightest bit embarrassed to cash that check you mentioned. My wife drives a school bus and has been out of work since BEFORE the shitstorm actually started. The district’s spring break (for which she did not get paid since she didn’t drive) started TWO FEKKING DAYS BEFORE the Prez’s Wednesday evening briefing. The next day, i.e. the 12th, was when people started to panic – hoarding toilet paper and bottled water. She has been out of work (and not getting a paycheck) since then and right now there’s no telling WHEN our (never to be… Read more »

David Davenport
David Davenport
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

” I would nominate anyone who’s ever received government money or benefits beyond regular salaries or pensions …”

That would be a large percentage of the American population. Most Democrat voters fit in that category, if ” beyond regular salaries or pensions” is modified to “including regular salaries or pensions.”

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

When you say “regular salaries or pensions” I hope you’re including Social Security and the miserable pittance I receive from the Dept.of Veteran’s Affairs. Oh and the pittance my son gets from the DVA for being rated 100% disabled after they would not let him re-enlist in the Army. I also hope you include the payments my brother gets for putting up with the bravo sierra and charley sierra for 20 years. For that matter, I hope you include the pittance my son’s father-in-law gets for having fekking TWO artificial knees pursuant to his stint in that little party they… Read more »

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
Reply to  robins111
4 months ago

This goes far beyond childless women. The MSM has been inducing panics in the American people since the 70’s with alarming regularity.

Problem is most oeioke have short memories so they never call the MSM on this shit.

I’ve been around long enough and my memory is still good that I can recall a lot of the panics the MSM caused.

These are very evil people, not just some box wine harpies going off the deep end.

Member
4 months ago

I’ve been replying to people I’ve known for years when they bring up the cold and flu season by telling them that destroying the economy is a bad idea. Or telling them that it’s all being blown out of proportion by the media. One guy I had to call a fking retard because he came out to meet me with a broom to ensure I maintained social distance. The guy I called a fking retard just excused himself to go back inside and cower in fear. Everyone else, though, grows extremely angry. I can watch as their facial expression changes… Read more »

John Smith
John Smith
Member
Reply to  Daniel Millet
4 months ago

Yep. And to them, you are like those rogue faggots that ran around deliberately spreading disease to other faggots. If you don’t believe in their bogeyman – they will brand you as one of his minions.

I learned early to just zip my lip. You get enough morons like that in a group and fire them up – and they will start burning witches and heretics.

Outdoorspro
Outdoorspro
Reply to  Daniel Millet
4 months ago

On the other hand, I have been constantly amazed at just how willing and eager so many people are to go along with and support each new directive. They repeat each new “abracadabra phrase” as if they’ve known and believed it their entire lives.

As for the “social distancing” part, it seems like for too many have been waiting for their opportunity to be their own neighborhood/workplace enforcer.

Mostly, I’m amazed, though not at all surprised at just how easy this slide into authoritarianism is happening.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  Outdoorspro
4 months ago

With how godawful society has become I suspect “social distance” is a welcome concept to embrace for many.

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  Daniel Millet
4 months ago

When I told people the other day that we all gotta go sometime, I thought they might explode. Not because it was flippant, exactly. But because it mocked their deep seated fear of a not-terribly infectious or dangerous cold virus.

If I were the Chinese, I’d be putting the PLA on troop-ships right now! The simpering communists in government will bend over backwards to accommodate the invasion, and the populace will cower in their homes.

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

Psalms 90, brother, Psalms 90. Plus, a basic knowledge of human existence since, well, humans have existed. And some basic math skills. Duh.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

A lot of people saying “we’ve all gotta go sometime” mean “they’ve all gotta go sometime” – usually the same people cocksure they’ll get a ticket on the Ark Ship to Planet Poz b/c “meritocracy.”

JZs
JZs
Reply to  Daniel Millet
4 months ago

The panic was started by rogue governors and mayors, each of whom instituted unconstitutional martial law light. But let’s not sugarcoat what Trump has done here. Not once has he criticized actions of these insane mayors and governors as it pertains to civil liberties. In fact he has blessed what they have done. And all the Q people believe he is in absolute control, almost like a omnipotent god. To cut to the chase, I don’t think I’ve ever been more pessimistic for the outlook going forward than I am now— not because of the virus, which I think could… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  JZs
4 months ago

We’ll see how good Trump is in walking this fiasco back. My hope is that the governors of the states—who are spineless—will size upon government recommendations for limiting their panicked edicts. As a local political pendent here once said, “Politicians are spineless, so you must lends them yours”.

Once I laughed at that, now I see he was oh so correct.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Daniel Millet
4 months ago

Odd, my experience has been pretty much the exact opposite of yours. Most people with whom I interact agree with both of your premises. They’re not “cowering in fear” so much as trying not to get pinched by some over zealous John Law. A potential $1,000 fine and/or half a year in county lockup is nothing to sneeze at.

Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

A nurse down in Charleston, SC told me that, had the city not issued a “shelter-in-place” order, statistical models projected there would be 70,000-100,000 DEATHS in the city. I immediately told her that figure was absurd. The population of Charleston is around 135,000 people. That would be a 50%-75% mortality rate, while The Virus seems to only have a 1-1.5% mortality rate.

These bogus statistics are what panicked hospital administrators are telling nurses in meetings and briefings. You’re right, Z Man, that this fear-mongering is feeding into their feminine desires to protect and to seek attention.

Severian
Reply to  Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

The Pravda effect. The media have been in control for do long they’ve forgotten how to craft a plausible lie, and they no longer see any reason to bother. Sadly, they seem to be right. People I once considered sober and intelligent are swallowing the most absurd lies. Again, it’s the Witch Trials. Cotton Mather was a pillar of his community before, but a laughingstock the rest of his life.

One of Many Georges
One of Many Georges
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

Total power is a win-win: if they believe your lies, that’s a win. But if they don’t, you still get the humiliation win of them not being able to do anything about it.

As to how you’re remembered, it depends on who writes the history.

Aren’t you a history professor, Severian? You could write up a big history book from our point of view.

Severian
Reply to  One of Many Georges
4 months ago

I was, once. Thank you, Buddha, for early retirement. That’s another reason I’m cautiously optimistic — young people are natural rebels and skeptics. The college kids I used to teach had had their natural rebellion and skepticism pretty well beaten out of them, because, well, how can you prove it isn’t “cisgender privilege” and whatnot? But the lies they’re being told these days are so big, and so obvious, that their natural tendencies can come roaring back. “Won’t get fooled again,” the old song went. Let’s hope….

Maus
Maus
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

But Sev, I was promised deaths, inordinate numbers of deaths. The threnody from all media is still pulsing in my ears as I am trapped in the staycation from Hell. Why hasn’t Gavin Newsome died? Why not Nancy Pelosi? Or Kanye West? Or Rachel Maddow? Where are all the deaths?

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  Maus
4 months ago

Well, Tom Hanks DID have vegemite on toast. That’s LIKE death.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Maus
4 months ago

Maus -Bill Gates promised PILES OF BODIES!!!!

Member
Reply to  MemeWarVet
4 months ago

He’s probably just thinking of the death toll from Windows updates.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Maus
4 months ago

I keep saying – show me burning corpse pyramids or GFTO!

No one has been able to, and no one ever will. This is an op being used to take our money, freedom, and future.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

Without high-tech medical treatment, that death rate will be much higher. I admit (optimistically), that the overall death rate may be low(er) because we still don’t have reliable statistics of the overall infected rates of a population.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

No one is denying treatment, nor for that matter against calling in some extra reserves from around the country. It’s the shutdown of the economy via shelter in place emergency edits that are at issue. All to “flatten” the curve, which is to say prevent a few more deaths. Those lives saved must have a monetary value placed on them such that they can be evaluated against the loss to the economy caused by current prevention attempts. As I’ve said, the base line estimate for the bail out (conservative, it will go up) is $2+T. That does not even include… Read more »

Penitent Man
Penitent Man
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

I’m sure all this concern for sparing a few more lives will make the abortionists and their supporters completely rethink their positions. After all, if the value of someone in their 80s is still worthwhile to stopper the economy… what is the value of someone with 80 years ahead of them. I’ll be holding my breath.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Penitent Man
4 months ago

Penitent, I assume you are dead by now. 😉

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

I agree with your points. I think the stated fatality rates are possibly an order of magnitude high because the virus has spread far faster than our ability to test and track the infected.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

As I’ve said before, the average person is innumerate. Just have that discussion with wife at breakfast yesterday wrt current $2T bailout/relief package and just how much money that was.

Here’s an exercise to the reader. If we were to give $1M compensation for each dead COVID-19 victim how many would have to die before we ran out of $$$.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

The MSM is purposely lying and misleading the public as to the stats surrounding cv1-9 infection and hospitalization rates and death. Though quacks like Fauci and Brix also went out their way to scare the green piss out of people with their mass death predictions early on.

In general you can watch TV coverage for a week on CV-19 and end up knowing no more than when you started.

It;s best if people avoid TV news for their mental health

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  Rwc1963
4 months ago

In Minnesota, and several other states, they no longer report negative results. That way the denominator locks in place (frozen 3/23 for MN), while the numerator rises as positive cases accrue, thus making the virus more “infectious”, to the uninformed observer, by the day.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

Hmmm Million is 1e6, billion 1e9, trillion 1e12, right? So 2e12 / 1e6 = 2e6/1 = 2 meelion!

A helpful way to think about it is to imagine the entire population of Nebraska, or Indianapolis + its suburbs.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

I know i nurse in that same city. I asked jokingly if the bodies were piling up. ”No, we have seen a couple cases come through but we are anticipating a huge spike to start this weekend and everybody is really kind of freaked out. Even the doctors are really stressed. Everyone is exhausted from the protection protocols. Preparing for this has really scared some people. We are hearing terrible stories from other hospitals.” Along those lines. Oh, and that was LAST weekend. Apparently they are still waiting in panic. We are experiencing a kind of mass Voodoo Curse, where… Read more »

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Screwtape
4 months ago

I had a very similar conversation with an old friend who is a nurse.

She and her colleagues are stressed out from preparing for the wave of infections and deaths, they’ve heard the scare stories, but of course, they haven’t seen any cases.

#CoronaHoax 2k20

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Screwtape
4 months ago

I am reminded of the excellent Castalia House book The Missionaries by “Owen Stanley”.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

The over-reliance on flawed stats and models shows just how innumerate most people are. Zman had some great comments about this on this week’s podcast.

Severian
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
4 months ago

I will believe the panic-mongers when any combination of the following happens: 1) the “urban outdoorsman” community gets decimated (we’ll have to rely on anecdotal evidence for that one, because any admission at all that they’ve got it acknowledges that hobos are a problem, and we won’t be having that.. 2) Countries in S/SE Asia are decimated. They’re right next door to China, the Himalayas are no barrier in these days of air travel, and their public health systems are…. Asian. If this thing is half as bad as the panic-mongers say, India won’t have to worry about overpopulation for… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Severian
4 months ago

It would be very useful, now and after the epidemic winds down, to have a website listing all the media’s various nightmare scenarios that were predicted and then failed to materialize. You could even organize it in table form. One column is “predicted deaths/cases by X date” and the other is “actual deaths/cases by X date”. I know that there are plenty of these kinds of sites listing, say, the failed predictions of doomsday by the Watchtower Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses) The hardcore members just ignore them and keep kicking the apocalypse can into the future but who knows how many… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  pozymandias
4 months ago

Perhaps we could update, and reissue the classic book, “ Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds” by
Charles Mackay?

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  pozymandias
4 months ago

The counter-factuals can (and will) always point to the very real fact that just a couple of garden gnomes provide an entire neighborhood with “herd immunity” from infestations of pygmy albino giraffes.

Andy Texan
Reply to  Tyler, the Portly Politico
4 months ago

Am old enough to remember the acronym GIGO (garbage in /garbage out). A classic case of computer modeling gone amuck. So much like the hockey stick curve that launched a million windmills and a bird holocaust.

ProUSA
ProUSA
4 months ago

The women who comment here might have the right stuff to lead. Fearless moms with strong sons.

Edit: hysterical is pretty close to hysterectomy. Macron and Trudeau would get one if they could.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  ProUSA
4 months ago

Not to be pedantic, but the Greek word for womb is the root for hysteria – early doctors diagnosed it in women and attributed it to their hormones. Gee, but we’re all so much smarter now (/s)!

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  ProUSA
4 months ago

Macron is a trophy husband. Trudeau is a product of nepotism. At least the french have rejected macron en masse. Gives me hope. They’ll come around to the national front, this whole mess might be the catalyst for that. Canada is probably doomed.

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  ProUSA
4 months ago

Ha! It’s only the relative obscurity of the term that keeps “hysterical” from being stricken from the lexicon for systemic sexism.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

Looking back, the Victorians had a few interesting, effective, and appropriate options for the treatment of female hysteria.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
Reply to  ProUSA
4 months ago

The panic mongering is a feature not a bug of the MSM and it’s been going well over 50 years. Think of the sinking of the Maine or Gulf Tonkin.

You need to understand fear is a tool for population management. A scared people don’t think, they become herd bound and can be shaped like putty.

Too many ignore the psychological or PR aspect of the MSM to their detriment.

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
4 months ago

There is another class of females you can add to the gynocracy, married women with children who left the raising of their children to nannies while they pursued a career. The Governor of Rhode Island Gina Raimondo is the perfect example of this. A full-time adult life of pursuing credentialism and position. Lots of NY’ers have summer homes in RI. If someone with NY plates is driving around RI they will be pulled over. Their choice will be 14 days of self quarantine… alternatives being discussed for not self quarantining being a fine and a stint in the graybar hotel.… Read more »

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Yves Vannes
4 months ago

One can make the case that that should be routine when facing New Yorkers.

Outdoorspro
Outdoorspro
Reply to  bilejones
4 months ago

Can we please add Californians, and citizens of Portland, OR and Seattle to that list?

ronehjr
ronehjr
Reply to  Outdoorspro
4 months ago

Don’t forget Chicago. comment image&pn=1&iax=images

Chad Hayden
Chad Hayden
Reply to  ronehjr
4 months ago

Wow, she looks like an extra in a zombie movie.

Member
Reply to  Outdoorspro
4 months ago

Portlanders don’t drive. They just ride around on TriMet (our public transportation system) all day and will lecture you about the joys of being locked in a rolling latrine for hours to get somewhere you could drive to in 17 minutes. Of course no one in Portland had a job before the shutdown anyway so the daily routine around here is pretty much as always. 11:00 am: Rise and shine 12:00 pm: Start smoking weed. Well there is the 9:00 pm run to the “funky” bar to get wasted on hipster beer made with locally grown hops. That’s on hold… Read more »

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  Yves Vannes
4 months ago

Mid-afternoon yesterday in my Middle TN town, I parked in a Kroger parking lot to run in and get some things. The car opposite me had New York plates (they do the front ones there, we don’t have them in TN) which immediately caught my eye. Further examination revealed that the owner of the SUV was a Member of the Montauk (Long Island) Fire Dept., advertising this with a large red-lettered plate attached above the Empire State plate. I wished I could have stayed around to see the owner and get the full story of why they were so far… Read more »

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  Dr. Dre
4 months ago

Was it in department livery or just a private vehicle. Around here it is common to have a plate designator that bolts above the plate or a placard (which I had) since we often responded directly to calls and these indicate to PD to let us pass through blocked streets. But so many NYC’ers have decamped to the Hamptons and stripped the groceries bare (they were on winter stocking schedule) that natives are fed up.

David Davenport
David Davenport
Reply to  Dr. Dre
4 months ago

” I wished I could have stayed around to see the owner and get the full story of why they were so far from home with an an auxiliary verhicle that was part of an important safety department.”

Betcha he’s a retired fireman who moved to TN because TN has no state income tax.

Judge Smails
Judge Smails
4 months ago

I saw this comment on ZeroHedge a couple a weeks ago under a story about Tulsi endorsing Biden:

“40 years of dem/repub rule careening from one disaster to the next to globalize our economy……..to bring us to this……house arrest.

We dont need another election……..we need insurrection……and we need it now.”

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Judge Smails
4 months ago

This from The Grauniad splash screen. “Thanks to your support we can continue to provide our vital reporting – in times of crisis and beyond. Millions of readers across the world are visiting the Guardian every day for open, independent, accurate journalism. Trusted news has never been so important” These are the people who spent three years telling us that “Russia” whoever he is, installed their/his/its (pronouns are so hard) man Trump in the White House by spending $100k on Facebook ads. Mini Mike Bloomberg meanwhile, one of the worlds smartest men, according to an ex-Mayor of NYC, pissed away… Read more »

Trojan House
Trojan House
Reply to  bilejones
4 months ago

Bloomberg should have learned from the Russian and solely advertised on FB. He would have saved $549,900,000 and been president by now.

ChrisZ
ChrisZ
4 months ago

One change to expect going forward: Z writes that a national lockdown was previously unimaginable; but now it’s not only imaginable, it’s lived experience. Therefore it is now part of the toolkit of responses to all manner of crises, actual and potential. As Macbeth observed, once you’ve set the precedent, you’ve ensured a repetition. Looking a little more deeply, maybe some thought should be given to WHY this was unimaginable to begin with. Maybe because we believed all that stuff about rights, liberty, limited government, etc. Did we just learn that it was all b.s.? I don’t know; but “trust… Read more »

Member
Reply to  ChrisZ
4 months ago

I wouldn’t panic about all that yet. A whole lot of unconstitutional and frankly vile stuff was done under Wilson during WW 1, but when Harding came into office, he and then Coolidge just quietly undid it, papered it over and most schoolkids and adults today have no idea that we lived under a government that incarcerated political dissidents and sent gangs of thugs around to beat and intimidate groups that didn’t fall into line. The section on Woodrow Wilson in high school American history classes is two sentences long and says “WW1! Then League of Nations!” Meanwhile the sentence… Read more »

ChrisZ
ChrisZ
Reply to  Vizzini
4 months ago

Thanks Vizzini for a great reply. Same to Compsci, Badthinker, and Exile (commenters at the time of writing).

The “fraternity” of commenters here is something that deserves appreciation.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  ChrisZ
4 months ago

There have been lockdowns/curfews of a sort before, always justifiable by events—earthquake, hurricane, floods—large natural calamity. Readily observable, with an end in sight as things are sorted out. This is the first one based on unverified/disputed “modeling”. In short, arbitrary. Yep, this will happen again.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

This ought to be causing the Muh Constitution conservatives to be up in arms over freedom of assembly (no exception for disease, only war). Goes to show that folks like Glenn Reynolds over at instapundit are just playing for an audience, not actually serious about their tricorn hats when things go bad.

Member
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

Well, we’ve been told for years to give up all our rights to the gods of climate modeling. I guess that was taking too long so now it’s the SIR models for the totalitarian win!

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  pozymandias
4 months ago

Pozy, I think there’s something to be said for your thinking here. I believe a blog post was ref’d the other day with commentary upon a faculty member’s interaction with fellow faculty cheering on the shutdown as good for the environment. They were “warmists”.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  ChrisZ
4 months ago

It’s worse than Shakespeare imagined. Courts respect, bend or ignore precedent to reach their desired results on most occasions, from the trial court level all the way up to Notorious RBG.

Laws only protect you to the extent others choose to enforce them in good faith. Talmudry is the foundation of modern Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence, common law be damned.

Tacitus
Tacitus
4 months ago

Excellent article with a salient point. One aspect that I’ve noticed as the best indicator of the great panic divide is the fear of death. Perhaps this is the sine qua non of the freak out camp. Most of my friends, like myself and my family, do not fear death irrationally so, and all share your opinion. My coworkers, several of whom are urbanite consuming insect men, are quite apoplectic over this to the point of keeping NPR on at all times, getting the drip drip drip feed of fear porn.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Tacitus
4 months ago

My father was among the first wave hitting the beach at Omaha and nearly drowned disembarking from the landing craft. Couldn’t see these “urbanite consuming insect men” doing the same.

Many modern-day “conservative” Christians think that people have moral duty to live as long as possible, no matter how miserable they are. They also refuse to face the reality of limited resources and unlimited demands. Along with outlawing abortion, they want to outlaw death.

As a female Z-lander, I think this hysteria is insane and I’m working. (Sound of Bronx cheer directed to NJ Gov. Murphy.)

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Tacitus
4 months ago

To put it in a crude and oversimplified question:
Would you wish to have a (1) .5% chance of dying but live in an economically ruined country or (2) a 1% chance of dying and continue living in a free and prosperous country? I would think most people would choose the latter option if presented properly. But perhaps I am naïve.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  NJ Person
4 months ago

Very good. I’ll try that next. Yesterday I told a childless woman her choice might be to continue to live her life while permitting one in twenty incredible old guys like me choke–at an age nobody expected to reach a centruy ago–or being suddenly dropped into a life she never thought possible. Girl thought it over but didn’t budge. Maybe Corona 20 can specialize in childless women.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  NJ Person
4 months ago

But who/what the hell is living? I am home and there is literally nothing left outside the home. I can go to the grocery store, the gas station, and back home. What would be the difference if no restrictions were in place and I was told to decide for myself to self-quarantine?

Tacitus
Tacitus
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

Compsci: exactly, this is not living, but rather a collective terror destroying the psychic fabric of seemingly half the world. People no longer are able to make their own choices in order to mollify a crowd of hysterical individuals terrified of their own mortality.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Tacitus
4 months ago

Its been a few weeks. That time frame hardly will destroy anything in our national psyche that wasn’t already sick. My option is that America has growing pains, its used to being a frontier society and socially ordered that way. Now most people live in urban areas (8 of 10) and we are unable to adapt to new circumstances. Its also highly corrupt and maleducated and that has to be fixed to make complexity work. The TL;DR is that have less freedom because there are 325 million of us mostly living butt to nut which is how it has been… Read more »

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

I think people are reacting quite differently depending on context. In my case I rarely r go out anyway, don’t eat out and go to maybe one “public” event like a movie a year. I kind of was going to see the Vin Diesel film Bloodshot in the theater but its on demand and eh whatever, Other than the bookstore being closed I rather like physical books , a few goods being in short supply , and of course the anxiety, I hardly notice the changes. That joke about introvert utopia from the Babylon Bee is close to reality for… Read more »

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  NJ Person
4 months ago

I’m with you. It’s quality over quantity and the long-term good for all Americans, not just my little potty self.

The flaw in your argument is that you are right.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  NJ Person
4 months ago

Its the other way. 1% chance of death with economic damage, 5% with vibrant economy.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
Reply to  Tacitus
4 months ago

The MSM makes it look worse by focusing on every outlier they can find like the athlete who dies of CV-19 or the teenager or child who does.

They are trying to make it look like everyone is threatened. They did the same thing during the AIDS outbreak/hysteria of the 89’s. When they stated ANYONE COULD GET AIDS not just gay men who did anal and drugs like crazy and who had 30 partners in a night in bath houses.

The Right Doctor
The Right Doctor
4 months ago

What a weird time to be alive. If others weren’t going through the same thing, they wouldn’t believe you when you described it to them. Looks like we picked the wrong month not to be on the Space Station. I thought I might be reporting from the front in this event, but I haven’t seen any more patients who needed testing. So I’m reporting from the back. This week my wife and I were going to see some of the sights of Arizona, so we took the week off long ago. She ended up having to go to California to… Read more »

Outdoorspro
Outdoorspro
Reply to  The Right Doctor
4 months ago

Nice post TRD. Up here in Montana, I’ve been thinking of places to go explore while the crowds are away. If we were more into fishing season, the possibilities would be limitless. The same lack of business has happened in our medical community as well. In the lab, the micro folks are pretty hard hit, but the rest of the lab is enjoying the break from the regularly stressful work days. Our testing volume has dropped by nearly half. They are taking the opportunity to finally get me trained up as a proper blood-banker, so it helps my career a… Read more »

Toasty
Toasty
Reply to  Outdoorspro
4 months ago

I’m here in Texas and all the state parks are shut down. I went camping on the wilderness beach of North Padre island last night and at 8pm the cops swept down the beach kicking everyone out even though there was nearly a half mile gap between each camper. I then had to go back into the city and rent the last room at overcrowded hotel.

Reply to  Toasty
4 months ago

Martial law has arrived. Now that the government has got a taste, whatever happens next will be like nothing we’ve ever known.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Toasty
4 months ago

Sad story, but expected. The reason and rationale for the closure was simply ignored and no exceptions could be made. Big Brother must always seem as invincible, no matter how absurd. Similar situation here throughout the few remaining stores open. Plastic shields now on all counters in front of cashiers. The irony of course is than no one can communicate through the solid plastic shield, so *both* customer *and* cashier, bend around the shield to transfer money and talk. I spent a good 15 minutes or so in one of those new “social distancing” register lines where tape marks on… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  The Right Doctor
4 months ago

Celebs with a positive is a growing list. To mind: Boris Johnson, Prince Charles. Tom Hanks. I don’t wish grave illness or death on anyone (well, not them anyway…!) but it’s likely somebody famous will die of COVID-19 at some point.

Alzaebo
Reply to  The Right Doctor
4 months ago

The common cold is a corona virus.
Literally.

Whitney
Member
4 months ago

These stupid b****** have shut the entire country down because they are scared to leave their houses and they’re screaming at everyone else just “stay home! just stay home!” all the while they get every living thing delivered to them by Amazon, instacart or shipt, a myriad of other services that have all the sudden enter the delivery business. We’re catering to these people. What we need to do is shut down all the delivery services and make these stupid b****** leave their house. I’m pissed, my business has been destroyed and pretty sure this is what we missed in… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Whitney
4 months ago

Coming from a small business family in the upper Midwest, I deeply sympathize with you. I live in the greater NYC area and am quite familiar with the nasty ladies of which you refer. However, the foreign-born first-generation ladies that I know are strong and do not shriek like the locally born and raised and mostly single specimens. Also, Ann Coulter and Heather MacDonald have been heroic. One key factor that makes the toxic brew is the malign influence of academia. People outside the radical left (including conservatives, moderates and even traditional liberals) have largely ignored what has been happening… Read more »

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Whitney
4 months ago

Whitney, I’m very sorry to hear that your business has been destroyed by this. I’m incredibly pissed off as well, I have friends that have lost jobs, and even ‘white collar’ friends who have been told either take a pay cut or quit. I count myself incredibly lucky. God bless you and I hope things turn around. Keeping you in my prayers.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  BadThinker
4 months ago

Yes, I too wish you a better future, Whitney – and anyone else here suffering from the rule of fools. I have friends whose small businesses are suffering and whose husbands’ jobs are in question. We’ve largely been insulated from this – I don’t work outside the home and my husband’s job is secure. I always buy bulk when money and space permits, so we have yet to run out of anything. I am truly and deeply sorry for those here who have been impacted.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Whitney
4 months ago

Years ago when the daughter was young and in a smallish private grade school, the school sent home a letter informing us that one of the newly enrolled students had a peanut “allergy”. This was serious and I’m sympathetic to the parents—however the “accommodations” the school was asking of the other parents was absurd. We were asked that all lunches/snacks the students brought to school be checked for any peanut “ingredients” and those no longer could be brought to school. Further, the allergy was of such extent that the mere breath of a student who had eaten such for breakfast… Read more »

Dukeboy01
Dukeboy01
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

My brother picked up my nieces after school one day when the younger one was about 5. They were attending Catholic school at the time and there was a ban on peanuts.

My niece was sitting in the backseat, giggling up a storm. My brother asked her what was funny. She pulled out an unopened package of peanut butter crackers.

“I took this to school and had it allllll day!”

“ABBY! You’re not supposed to take peanut butter to school.”

“It’s okay, Daddy. I didn’t get caught!”

She’s gonna be a bad seed.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

When the letter announcing a new student’s “penis allergy” comes…

Alzaebo
Reply to  Whitney
4 months ago

OMG, that’s it, that’s it.
Combined with the power of “go online- make me famous!”, we are seeing rule by Instagram Karens as they try to outdrama each other.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Whitney
4 months ago

Whitney….sorry to hear, hon. Damn and blast these unhinged harridans! They ruin our world. Take care, may you have a spine of steel and land on your feet, Whitney.

Deana
Deana
Reply to  Whitney
4 months ago

Whitney – I am sorry about your business. Truly. But every time I see the news it seems like a lot of men are advocating the shut down. Male doctors, epidemiologists, emergency management types. Even Dr. Birx, the female physician standing along side Trump, has indicated that a lot of this is over the top. Look. I loathe feminists. But this panic seems to be a joint effort.

John Smith
John Smith
Member
4 months ago

I learned many things from this. I used to thing that 25% of human beings were capable of learning and reason. I’ve revised that; it now stands at 15%. The rest are irredeemable cattle. I also learned that our leaders and media slobs are the same people and not to be trusted or relied upon. If the super plague ever appears, it will kill everyone except the Omega Men. The united states could now easily fragment into three or four smaller countries, most of which cannot get along with each other. There probably won’t be any room for dissidents in… Read more »

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  John Smith
4 months ago

The first basic law of human stupidity states without ambiguity that “always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.” Let us know when you’ve come to the (inevitable) realization that your 15% number is still way too high. 🙂

Epaminondas
Member
4 months ago

A well-known local liberal and his wife were in a store yesterday, and the woman had on a bandanna wrapped around her face like a bank robber. She was rushing around the store piling items in her basket while her long-suffering liberal husband waited patiently and quietly to pay. He seemed defeated, resigned. She was in complete panic mode, eager to get out of the store and away from the rest of us plague-infused animals.

I’m in the provinces. Take the above scenario to New York City and you have panic on steroids.

Tykebomb
Tykebomb
4 months ago

Hey, remember three months ago when we assassinated a high ranking foreign general and threatened to invade a country?

Man that was crazy.

Henry Lee
Member
4 months ago

Our son and his girlfriend live next to her parents about fifty miles closer to Atlanta. The “kids” are gen something in their early forties. We and her parents are in our seventies. Hers are in bad heath and we aren’t. The girlfriend is having a meltdown because her parents went out the other day for fried chicken at Publix’s hot bar. We are pretty much staying at home because there’s nothing left to do out. We did have a sausage biscuit from McDonald’s drive-through the other day on the way to Kroger and Sam’s for some necessities but we… Read more »

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Reply to  Henry Lee
4 months ago

As a tail-end Boomer, albeit of the non-egotistical variety, I agree that it’s a matter of perspective. Geez, how many scares have there been in my life? Global cooling, global warming, Y2K, SARS, etc. Ten years ago, H1N1 infected 60 million Americans, 274k went to the hospital and 12k plus died. How many people remember that? The gay Moslem Marxist Mulatto was president and he wasn’t blamed for his inaction.

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
Reply to  Henry Lee
4 months ago

Lived in a northern county/suburb of the ATL for 20yrs. Imagine the panic if CV19 had hit in the middle of a snowmageddon event (anything > 2″), and/or an arctic blast (windchill < 20 F).

Henry Lee
Member
Reply to  Stranger in a strange land
4 months ago

As an Atlanta native, let me give some perspective. Back before global warming, Atlanta’s winter events would be ice storms rather than snow so the natives have developed a fear of any winter precipitation. This is fed by the usual media overreaction. In the early 80’s, there was a big one. We were told at work that we could leave at 3:00 PM. At 3:00, I walked out the door. It only took me a few minutes more than normal to get home since it was getting slippery. People who stood around and talked about it took hours and some… Read more »

TomA
TomA
4 months ago

The fish rots from the head is a dictum that describes the current malady that infests Washington DC. We are being led by the likes of Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, AOC, and Maxine Waters. And many of the Repubs are just as bad as they tend to lean into covert criminal grifting as their primary psychosis (Hello Pierre Delecto). After they trash the world economy printing fiat currency by the quadrillion, they plan to do an Alfred E. Neuman “What me worry?” and “I did for the children.” The only really fatal disease we face is in DC.

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
Reply to  TomA
4 months ago

Agreed. It used to be that politicos tried to hide the details of their corruption and stupidity… but now they display it in broad daylight and even advertise it. I don’t think anyone can deny it anymore… the wheels are falling off, and unless something is done, this will end badly and soon.

The Babe
The Babe
4 months ago

It is hard to imagine this great madness being forgotten. Well, one thing the left (I shall not call it the j-left, out of respect for Z’s delicate sensibilities) is good at is memory-holing. The most monstrous dishonesties, even atrocities, but once the leadership almost subconsciously “vibrates out” to the hive that it should be forgotten, then … it’s as if it never happened. Except, of course, for events required in their demonology: Emmet Till, That Thing From World War Two, et cetera. But then it becomes our responsibility to keep alive memory of their insanities. Our mythmaking has been… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  The Babe
4 months ago

I read somewhere that Haven Monahan and the entire 2006 Duke Lacrosse team have tested positive for the china virus. Just awful. Jussie Smollett, however, tested negative. So thats some good news in all of this mess.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Screwtape
4 months ago

Screwtape – Thanks – that got a guffaw from my husband (I’ve read him the post and the thread).

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  The Babe
4 months ago

To be fair we don’t control the media so it’s a bit harder to disseminate myths, but I doubt this will be forgotten. It will be hard for people to forget being forced to shelter in place for months. Sportsball is cancelled, bars are closed, everyone is scared to walk within 6 feet of each other. I doubt this will be forgotten anytime soon. It has affected the mentioned Js the hardest so since they control all the megaphones, the message is deafening. The ffing emmit till thing… the constant image presented in the TV ads… the amount of vengeance… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  FashGordon
4 months ago

Its not the event that is forgotten. E.g. Nobody has forgotten the fact that Hitler bombed pearl harbor.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  Screwtape
4 months ago

Yeah now, sure. But back then it was fresh in the memory of the herd and they responded by putting japs in camps. This will be fresh too.

Stranger in a strange land
Stranger in a strange land
Reply to  Screwtape
4 months ago

…which killed 6 M minority people.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

Zman, you do well to question the narrative. However, isn’t it possible that there is valid reason for concern, if not the panic, about the Coronavirus? May I submit for discussion that it is not a cold or the seasonal flu? A disease that kills 1/3 of the residents of a nursing home in scarcely a month (Kirkland, WA) is not “normal”. Nor is the flooding of ER rooms and the consequent depletion of medical and staff resources, albeit only so far in “hot spots” (Italy, perhaps next NYC?) By all the scenarios I’ve read, the peak for the illness… Read more »

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

Ummm, no. This is globalist bullshit spread by insane hysterical females and soyboys who want to LARP that they’re in a “Resident Evil” movie.

Get back to me when Bill Gates “piles of bodies” show up.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

Nonsense. A disease that kills 1/3 of what type of population—nursing home—elderly folk, infirmed, weak and at end of life. 1/3 to 1/2 will be afflicted with Alzheimer’s, the rest with diabetes and heart disease. The flu or common cold will kill off the same amount. All such common diseases are deadly when you are of that cohort. That’s why, even before the pandemic, many precautions are taken when visiting your elderly relatives—and often children are asked to stay away. As to your meteor analogy. We are not talking of predictions right or wrong, but what you do when such… Read more »

Deana
Deana
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
4 months ago

Ben. I’m a nurse at a major trauma center. I do understand what you are saying. We are fine so far but the numbers are increasing. I suspect the last couple of weeks bought a lot of hospitals some time to prepare more. Gut feeling? Most hospitals will be fine due to slowing this down somewhat, enhanced preparedness, cancelling surgeries to make more room, reorganizing and quickly training staff, and so forth. I’m no longer worried about being overwhelmed. I want to see our economy open up so we can save businesses and get back to our lives. I always… Read more »

TBD
TBD
4 months ago

I’m happy to remain a forum dissident on this issue until / unless facts prove me wrong. The data is clearly still very dodgy. It’s unlikely that the virus is anywhere near as deadly as we’re being told. Yet at the same time, what I’m seeing by way of direct evidence from various hospitals (US and international) is downright alarming. Squabble all you like about statistical totals and percentages, and fair enough. But professionals on affected wards are being overwhelmed. The reports I’ve read aren’t panic or hoaxes. It isn’t helpful for Our Thing to line up a Mexican firing… Read more »

Jim Smith
Jim Smith
Reply to  TBD
4 months ago

“I suspect the hour is upon us.” Me too. Even if the panic turns out to be groundless, it may yet be the trigger.

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  TBD
4 months ago

Live in a town full of doctors outside NYC, most practice in the city. The direct observations from them are 1)deterioration in patients can be astonishingly rapid and not predictable in patients that are not old and co-morbid. 2)pulmonary damage is unlike what they have observed in normal pneumonia patients and may not be fully reversible 3) critical patients require up to 3x the duration on ventilators–which creates a cascade of resource problems. I’ve had pneumonia 3x (2 viral 1 bacterial), there is a normal curve of improvement–apparently that is not the case here. The gear resourcing issue is mostly… Read more »

TBD
TBD
Reply to  SamlAdams
4 months ago

I landed a case of viral pneumonia when I was in the Army. Went from stud to dud overnight. On my *** in a cot for a week. It’s evil. No joke. See what SamlAdams wrote. Anything worse than pneumonia is worth being wary of. Brothers, please don’t laugh this off. Skepticism is fine, but watch the downside. Also have family in industrial chemicals / supply chain management, manufacturing and providing (among much else) hand cleaner and all that jazz. They are going like mad. The airlines were about six weeks ahead of the government on this issue. Trust me,… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  SamlAdams
4 months ago

SamlAdams – that prognosis comports to what I’ve read elsewhere. Yes, it can be unpredictable and, in certain unlikely cases, deadly. But none of that changes the overall statistics – most people are not falling dead in the streets. Certainly the co-morbid groups should isolate themselves, and just-in-time is a scourge on all aspects of our economy, along with outsourcing all production. But none of that justifies the economic shutdown or overall panic. If I’m one of the unlucky ones, then I’m gone. I’m still far more worried about the future of my children.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  TBD
4 months ago

TBD. We shall see. But again, since you are so anxious to err on the side of caution, this must assume you have a value in mind of the lives saved by your particular precautions. Great, how about elaborating? Specifically, How many lives will be saved in this pandemic? What do you monetarily estimate their worth? How do you estimate the cost of the effort currently underway? How do you compute the cost/benefit ratio using such numbers? These are not gotcha questions. They are important questions and ones that indicate whether we have reasonable people in leadership/discussion or whether we… Read more »

TBD
TBD
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

Compsci, it’s not a question of how I calculate matters. We won’t mathematick our way to a solution. The simple fact is that the senior people in government are going to have to give it their best, and then unscrew things along the way. I accept your concerns – I have them, too. But our focus needs to be on the way forward. What can we do, here and now?

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  TBD
4 months ago

TBD. And the simple response IMO is that “giving it your best” requires an evidence based, reasoned decision process. You have repeatedly posted that you believe the present actions of government are justified, hence meet my criteria. I simply asked you to elaborate as to why you believe such. Your failure to provide such—evidence in the form of fact base reason—I maintain is proof of what I contend is an “emotional, fear based” response on your part (as well as millions of others, you are not alone). That’s fine, but emotional response is not an rationale argument for your position.… Read more »

Deana
Deana
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

There will be plenty of time in the coming months to figure out why some urban areas had such a hideous experience with this while other similar urban areas did not. It is easy sit back and demand an “evidence based approach.” Fine. I don’t disagree. The “evidence” that finally turned around the naysayers at our facility was watching and hearing what the physicians and nurses at the Papa Giovanni hospital in Bergamo had to say. That hospital is large, wealthy and very sophisticated. Had US government and medical people observed Bergamo and against that evidence decided to wait and… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

I think the economy is a real concern. But from what’s been happening first in Hubei province in China, then in Italy, Spain, now happening in the UK, Denmark, Switzerland and many other countries, and probably in Iran although data there is pretty sketchy at best, and also in NYC, Queens not least, even if I wanted to just ignore the human cost, I could ask ‘what the heck is that going to do to the economy??’

roberto
roberto
Reply to  TBD
4 months ago

How about actual data ? Portland VA medical center. As of yesterday, 3 positive results out of over 100 returned test results. 1 of those was early in all of this and that patient who had many other serious medical issues died. The other 2 positive patients are recovering at home now.

TBD
TBD
Reply to  roberto
4 months ago

It sounds positive. Good luck, and thank you for your service. But for the moment it remains a small data point. I don’t trust the so-called ‘data’ on an international basis. Instead, I’m looking at anecdotal evidence out of China, Italy, Spain and Washington. Not because they’re definitive, but because in the absence of reliable population-level data, the anecdotal info is more persuasive at the moment. I will be *delighted* to be shown wrong, if it comes to pass.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  TBD
4 months ago

I’m also a ‘forum dissident’ as you put it, on this one. And I’d be happy to see evidence that I’m wrong to be so. I share the general concerns about the economy and grotesquely expanded state powers. But I don’t think letting this virus run its course would make a bad situation better in either case.

exfarmkid
exfarmkid
4 months ago

“Gynocracy”. Well…..THAT explains a lot. Kudos.

David_Wright
Member
Reply to  exfarmkid
4 months ago

Yes it also explains well the constant school closings for temperature drops or snow above two inches. Sometimes it is not the actual weather but fear of outrage from the parents for not reacting strong enough.

The female teachers are also known for threatening students with the police to control them. Gee, how did all of this happen?

Jim Smith
Jim Smith
Reply to  David_Wright
4 months ago

Speaking of government schools being shut down due to the virus panic…is that not a potentially huge positive? Read all about it: https://www.breitbart.com/education/2020/03/25/actress-sam-sorbo-coronavirus-the-impetus-to-rethink-education-in-america/

Judge Smails
Judge Smails
Reply to  Jim Smith
4 months ago

Our local school district has been pushing $110 million bond to build new schools. Instead they could go to a four day schedule. Half the students come on Monday and Tuesday and half on Wednesday and Thursday.Students do the balance of their school work online. You instantly double the capacity of your buildings and save on utilities by reducing the heat, AC, and lighting on Fridays. However, this will never fly because there would be no kickbacks to the administrators for construction contracts.

BadThinker
BadThinker
Reply to  Judge Smails
4 months ago

And the fact that single incomes are much harder to get by on than they used to be..

Allen
Allen
4 months ago

For all of our technological marvels humans are still gibbering in the caves ever fearful of the dark magic. Just fifteen years ago people had already resorted to cannibalism in the Superdome after a few days. At least if you believed the same crowd as today. As was then there will be no price to pay, because the shamans saved the fearful tribe from the angry gods.

joey junger
joey junger
4 months ago

Maybe you and Ramzpaul are right that the types waiting for society to collapse can’t hack it in a Mad Max/ World Made by Hand scenario, but I’m not sure. Plenty of people in the past were relishing the idea of a collapse or were at least willing to capitalize on it for their cause dejure. I remember reading a memoir by a member of Noske’s Freikorp who went off to fight for Germany after World War I and ended up getting imprisoned for a long time with his friends by the newly-empowered democrats; when the stationary this soldier used… Read more »

ronehjr
ronehjr
Reply to  joey junger
4 months ago

I’m sure I have limited information in this regard, but I haven’t read or listened to anybody in our thing who wishes for the collapse of civilization. The most I’ve heard, is they want the current regime to be discredited. But even Mike Enoch, who is at the top of that list, expressed doubts that this event would do a whole lot to push us in that direction. But every little bit helps.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  ronehjr
4 months ago

Impossible to predict what could happen but I’d take a small chance of victory over no chance any day. Remember, we are the descendants of Alexander.

FashGordon
FashGordon
Reply to  joey junger
4 months ago

I can do 40+ push ups, so can my close friends. A collapse is not be something I would be too broken up about 🙂

Judge Smails
Judge Smails
4 months ago

Students at NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts demand $29,000 refunds for their Spring tuition. Instead the school’s Dean emails them a video of herself dancing to the REM song “Losing my Religion”.

https://vimeo.com/399761785/befce790d7?fbclid=IwAR0dJpmV1ntow6p9Pc08OxsJ1DVeNVP-5j3jz-ag69bmJDf6lzZOeA6HntI

SamlAdams
SamlAdams
Reply to  Judge Smails
4 months ago

I’ll be discussing two room and board refunds first thing on Monday morning.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Judge Smails
4 months ago

Breathtaking narcissism.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Judge Smails
4 months ago

What in bloody hell was that strange old woman in the video thinking she was doing?

I like to be the “fly on the wall” and understand what motivates people, but this case is a complete mystery to me.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Dutch
4 months ago

How many millions of dollars have American parents spent in elevating these mad hags to the Cathedral? Parents, please spend more time evaluating where you spend your own money and your childrens’ financial future (and sanity).

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Judge Smails
4 months ago

NYU can be summarized as a world class math department, with a decent physics, enginnering and medical school and, I hear, a good philosophy department, latched to god only knows what but certainly all the demonic psychopathologies associated with the far left.

bilejones
Member
4 months ago
M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  bilejones
4 months ago

Out here in the burbs, I can tell you, child or no child, many are ready to drop a dime on anybody displaying insufficient adherence to the New Soviet ideal,

ExNativeSon
4 months ago

Rhode Island Is hunting down New Yorkers driving across its borders. I thought borders were racist. We officially now live in a police state environment. Even the ACLU, which I was a long time member of, may actually do what they used to stand for and sue Rhode Island. Z mentions women in this post and yesterday discussed the make believe cocoon of academia. My wife is a twofer. She is a retired lifelong professor. She is virtually paralyzed at home in fear. Both the university and the college I used to teach for are both completely shut down. Did… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

Madness for sure. The thing is we have the data. Indeed, we have an almost perfect experiment for understanding how bad the virus could be: the Diamond Princess. You literally trap 3,700 older people in a tin can and let the virus run rampant. The only part that isn’t perfect is that those infected got great medical care. No models, no assumptions, just 3,700 older people trapped on a ship with the virus. What are the numbers? 712 infected, so ~19% 10 dead (all or almost all super old, sorry, but they’re old) so 0.27% (I don’t know the number… Read more »

NJ Person
NJ Person
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

Numbers, numbers. Logic, logic. When I brought them to the attention of an elite schools educated lady, I got the response “I care about people, not numbers”.

If it is any comfort, the WSJ does give some more push back today.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/worst-case-coronavirus-science-11585351059?mod=opinion_lead_pos2

BTP
Member
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

@Citizen – How do you account for the other data points? 1. China lost their frackin’ minds. Were they simply in error and over-reacted? MB Lamar (below) thinks the whole thing was a false flag, what is your explanation of that data point? 2. Italy is spiking deaths – around 50% increases over normal daily deaths, by my back-of-the-envelope calculation, much more in the north, much less in the south. Obviously, a system designed to handle x deaths per day is overloaded by 1.5x deaths per day. How do you interpret this event? The Diamond Princess really did happen, but… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

Good points. 1. China My suspicion is that when the Chinese figured out they had something on their hands, they weren’t sure how bad it was. They knew was extremely contagious but didn’t know how lethal. As a result, they had to act as though it was the plague and lock down everything. Probably the right move given what they knew at the time. 2. Italy. I’ll grant you that Italy is mess. But the numbers coming out of Italy, Spain and, now, Switzerland are outliers. Their cases per million and, especially, deaths per million are massive out of proportion… Read more »

BTP
Member
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

@Citizen –

I can buy that. Indeed, a virus that’s hell on compromised lungs could be a grave problem in a place where everybody smokes and breathes smog all day long. So maybe a combination of it being more serious to a Chinese population and an over-estimate of that real danger leads the Chinese to react with something like panic. Northern Italy is old and smokes and is filled with Chinese expats.

That does explain why we aren’t seeing anything like the advertised mortality rates, or for that matter hospitalization rates.

ExNativeSon
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

CSC–Yes indeed. This is in NO way a binary choice. I mean unless you are life long government employee, journalist, pundit, entertainer, or circus clown.

You must not be a professor and actually work in the real world for a living.

Ray z
Member
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
4 months ago

Anybody who gets on anything named the Diamond Princess gets what they gets. Talk about a symbol of the gynocracy.

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

The power of the MSM can’t be disregarded here. The lessons to be learned are the same as always. The virtuous Leftist elite saved you, while the benighted bigots, in their arrogant and evil stupidity, circled the plutocratic wagons and left you high and dry. If you will pull your heads out of your ignorant butts and vote in a socialist utopia already, it will be much better next time.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

Yes, control of the media is more important than control of the government.

BTP
Member
4 months ago

Yeah. So, look: I remain concerned about this whole thing because a high transmission rate coupled with a relatively high mortality rate can be real trouble. The problem is that we are not seeing what was advertised on either count and the lack of these results doesn’t seem to have bothered anyone in charge. Literally, the one person I know who had the virus – the adult daughter of a friend, works in healthcare – quarantined herself for a couple weeks and was last seen out on a boat with her dog and some friends. Tom Hanks remains un-ventilated. My… Read more »

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

Wuhan is the Richmond to Beijing’s Washington. They also had a Hong Kong problem. China is in a rare spell where the worlds opinion is important. I am able to make something of that.

BTP
Member
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

So, M.B. Lamar, what do we make of their reaction? Was it false flag? Over-reaction on a massive scale?

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

I think it was purge under cover of virus. I cannot in even the slightest way substantiate that, other than familiarity that Wuhan has been a hotbed of rebellion going back to Chiang Kai-Shek, and that Xi was clearly on shaky ground by November. I can’t believe they wanted to spread it to the west given the egregious harm to their economy and reputation. I think outside leftists got in on the action as a means to achieve New Green Deal Round 2, through Stalinist crisis exploitation tactics. The House Stimulus points to that, That would be the 5-eyes, up… Read more »

Member
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

I’ve been wondering the same thing M.B. How much of the Chinese reaction was directed towards arresting “undesirables” and purging Communist party apparatchiks who weren’t sufficiently supportive of Xi? I think the provincial leader of the Wuhan area got sacked and is probably shoveling sh*t on a collective farm somewhere while Xi appointed one of his buddies to take over the response in the area. We haven’t heard much from Hong Kong lately either. How many of the protesters there were “quarantined” in some mainland gulag as part of the virus response never to be seen again?

BTP
Member
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

ok, so you think China was a false flag or some sort of operation to disguise a purge. I don’t know that that’s a more logical explanation than that the Chinese let loose the Pale Horseman on the world, to be honest.

Member
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

It’s not a false flag – the disease exists and they know to be cautious from the SARS outbreak. I think though it could have been a matter of “never let a crisis go to waste”. Might as well throw all these troublemakers into the gulags while we’re busy quarantining people.

Member
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

I saw the explanation for the Italy thing the other day in a Telegraph article of all places and they’ve been one of the biggest boosters for shutting down the world economy forever. What’s caused the Italy panic is their general incompetence at keeping medical records. Basically what happens is someone is in the hospital because they are in the final stages of terminal lung cancer or they’ve had their leg amputated because of complications from diabetes. They pass away in their hospital beds at which point they are THEN tested for coronavirus. If the test comes back positive, then… Read more »

M. B. Lamar
M. B. Lamar
Reply to  RDittmar
4 months ago

Worth considering the relationship too. If the CCP tells Italy to fudge the numbers, they’ll fudge em.

Member
Reply to  M. B. Lamar
4 months ago

I don’t thing you can discount the possibility that the Italian government is looking for handouts from the EU either. Didn’t they almost go belly-up like Greece during the 2008 panic? I can see them threatening the EU to give them billions else they’ll be unable to stop the spread of the virus and it will sweep across Europe. It’s the same game Turkey plays with their excess of Exploding Muhammads.

BTP
Member
Reply to  RDittmar
4 months ago

– I don’t find that compelling as an explanation for Italy. If it were compelling, then the Italian ERs would not be overloaded, especially in the north of the country, where all the Chinese settled to make “Italian” textiles.

Are you suggesting the reports of the Italian healthcare system being completely overloaded and entirely fabricated? Serious question.

Member
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

I am certainly not an expert on the Italian healthcare system, so my opinion is the metaphorical equivalent of the you-know-what that everybody has. I did see the other day however that apparently Italy doesn’t have the same system of primary care that we do in the United States. In the U.S. if you get sick you might go to your family doctor and get some prescription antibiotics to clear up whatever you have. In Italy, if you get sick you go to the emergency room. There are no family doctors that operate like family doctors do here – prescribing… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  RDittmar
4 months ago

RDittmar: THIS!!!! They already admitted that they are testing after death (here in the US as well) and, despite whatever actually caused the death, if they find COVID-19 then they attribute death to the virus. Lies and damned statistics. Plus age, co-morbidities, AND they still refuse to release any information on the races of those dying (tons of Chinese here and in Italy).

Member
Reply to  3g4me
4 months ago

This is going to be one big drawback to Trump’s effort to flood the land with coronavirus test kits. They’re going to do everything they can to juice the number of both cases and deaths to distract attention from awkward questions when the unemployment rate hits 35%, so they’ll be testing everyone who comes into the emergency room. If you die on the way to the hospital after getting run over by a bus, the doctors will shout “Test this man for COVID-19! He’s positive! Another victim of the virus!”. And on top of that, we don’t even know how… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  BTP
4 months ago

BTP, we err on the side of caution. There is a middle way. What we seem to know is that the disease is not overly fatal as compared to just about any disease we have encountered. As a bonus, it seems fatal in the least economically significant portion of the population. This suggests a more reasoned quarantine response—one that does not create economic disaster.

Paul Martin
Paul Martin
Member
4 months ago

Another problem fueling the panic is the automatic triggering of downstream actions by “emergency” declarations from above. Tying respective layers of government together absolves public officials from acting responsibly while serving as a force multiplier for the madness. The only thing spreading exponentially is the panic itself.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Paul Martin
4 months ago

Small businesses in places like CA and NY have been devastated by this. All because these degenerate governors and mayors pounded their scepters to the floor and decreed “This shall be done!” A freedom loving America (which no longer exists and hasn’t for years) would turn to them and say, “Who the hell are you anyway?” How dare these civil servants order livelihoods to be destroyed by some slightly stronger flu?

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Paul Martin
4 months ago

Well put Tim.

Exile
Exile
Member
4 months ago

These are all symptoms of a low-trust society led by unreliable or downright bad actors. First of all, it’s hard to teach people how to cope with this kind of society when you aren’t allowed to discuss these problems without risking internal exile or imprisonment. Normies aren’t to blame – they’ve been taught to Trust the Planners. We abnormies aren’t immune – we just tend to trust different planners. The HBD crowd isn’t herd immune to herd mentality. I suspect a lot of those smart guys are following a fellow smart guy’s lead. This demonstrates Mosca and Pareto’s “inevitability of… Read more »

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

The lesson our pretend rulers will take away from this may very well be how easy it was to manipulate the huddled and befuddled masses. They stumbled into this with the WuFlu but this lesson now learned won’t go unused by them in the future. The silver lining for us is that fool me once, twice, thrice requires more and more effort for diminishing returns.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

Perhaps the American populace has lost the Mandate of Heaven and we have been given the rulers we deserve?

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

Comp, We are not part of the “we” that chose this. Get used to making the distinction between Us and “Americans.”

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

All of us, and I bet you too, were once upon a time part of the problem—however small—and in that have a hand in events. I know I was for the majority of life. In that manner, I accept the inclusive “we” in the above. All here posting I agree are attempting to rectify such past mistakes.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
4 months ago

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Civ insulates people from consequences, which over time makes people immoral and crazy.

Future belongs to the barbarian. Or the hick, redneck, dirt person, what you will. Paradoxically, these are the most capable of being civilized today. Society people are more worried about wiping their butts.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 months ago

Our society has too many vertical layers. The quality of information that trickles down through each layer gets worse the higher we stack it. Likewise with wealth distribution, social affinity, etc…

For all that right-wingers appreciate hierarchy, we could do better with a more horizontal society in many ways.

“Future belongs to the barbarian” is right in tune with my listening for the weekend – REH and James LaFond would agree with you.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

Yeah the trickle-down effect. Turns out gynocracy isn’t as non-heirarchical as advertised. May be worse for all I know. Gossip, etc. Hard to say because I’ve never known patriarchy.

Agreed about horizontal structure. If we’re going to have leaders they shouldn’t be out of touch. Federalism was a great idea. Sort of a hybrid.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Paintersforms
4 months ago

Anyone who’s ever worked in a hen-party office environment can attest that every gal there knows where she fits in vis a vis every other woman in the joint.

The Right Doctor
The Right Doctor
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

Gotta say something funny. We interviewed for a receptionist – we have five who work in a common area. Our male office manager explained the process to me: the other workers get a vote. All are women.

We hired a woman who is working out fine. The manager was perplexed at the time, telling me that there was a better candidate who was also a stand-out beauty but they didn’t like her.

I laughed and said, “I get it. You don’t.”

He’s gay. He thought for a minute and said, “Now I get it.”

Jim Smith
Jim Smith
4 months ago

Creeping optimism here: We know our society/nation/country can’t go on like this. We know a political, social, financial, even civilizational “correction” is coming. And the longer we wait, the bigger the smash-up. So if the virus brings it on now…is that necessarily bad? Besides, are we not in the middle of a 4th Turning?

T. Morris
T. Morris
Reply to  Jim Smith
4 months ago

I’ve been pointing this out as well. The main thing to keep in mind is that whenever and however it comes it’s most assuredly not going to be painless. Good people are going to get hurt. That’s just the way the world works.

Johnny le Pen
Johnny le Pen
4 months ago

Another humiliation we have in store: the vibrants of all countries basically just ignored the lock-down orders and continued to do their hang-out-unproductively-outside thing.

If the virus turns out to be not so bad, we’re going to be seen as a bunch of pussies who follow the anarcho-tyranny rules, while it will be plain as day to them that they’re above the law.

Bad for morale, bad for precedent–and didn’t even take out any vibrants. Sheesh.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
4 months ago

The panic is media driven, Just like the lead up to the Iraq war and before that they did it with the AIDS outbreak… Every day on TV we are subjected tp medical experts who say that cv-19 is as bad as the 1918 Influenza outbreak and that millions will die and our hospitals will collapse under the patient load. Everyday there is the demand for more ventilators despite the fact that most people put on them who have cv-19 will die anyway. That idiot Cumo is on every morning proclaiming gloom and doom in NY and it also freaks… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Reply to  Rwc1963
4 months ago

The data from the most tested country; Iceland indicates this virus isn’t as deadly as thought. Apparently being cooped up concentrates the mind; I have seen now MSN, the Telegraph and even Cuomo question a total lockdown of everyone. Why is this so much deadlier than SARS? Well; Wuhan is the replacement for Detroit in its peak. More. Just in time supply lines being cut when you have razor thin heavily indebted margins= panic. When you own the media; and banks Do you get to pick the hype. They wanted QE. They wanted a bailout. Instead they set off a… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
4 months ago

The definition of Gynocracy is my esteemed congressional representative screeching in front on congress, fovever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMN8h0ahUvA

Bill_Mullins
Member
4 months ago

ZMan asked Has the world gone mad? The short answer is (IMNSHO) “Yes”. Between the proponents of Talib’s cowardly and insidious “Precautionary Principle” and those who would do literally ANYTHING IN THEIR POWER to bring down the President, I believe that the world has gone stark, staring bonkers! At least temporarily. In a country of over 320 million people with 200,000 empty hospital beds at any one time, that’s not much of a crisis. I suspect that Covid-19 is about as much of a crisis as SARS, or MERS. Remember them? From where I sit, the biggest difference between SARS… Read more »

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
4 months ago

Perfect post.

3g4me
3g4me
4 months ago

Brilliant, Zman!!! Of course, part of that is because we are in complete agreement on this, but part of it is that you are a far more skilled wordsmith than I, putting my thoughts and often incoherent rage into a thoughtful, logical, and rhetorically persuasive form. Long past time, I’m upping my monthly donation.

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
4 months ago

I don’t know about Razib Khan, but you might want to consider that Steve Sailer and Greg Cochran are in the “high risk” category for COVID-19. That would explain their panic

Member
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
4 months ago

Steve Sailer is at high risk for a bad case of the brown nose if he doesn’t extract his head from his @$$ before the year’s out.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  RDittmar
4 months ago

I’ve recently caught up on Cochran’s blog and I must say I’m shocked. I thought Z-man perhaps exaggerated. No. At this point, I’m inclined to no longer follow him. You can be the sharpest knife in the drawer—Cochran is—but you can’t be correct 100% of the time. Shouting down, insulting your detractors and repeating your epidemic modeling formula as if handed down on Mount Sinai does not impress me as a reasonable way to convince others of your truth.

Member
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

I have no patience anymore for people who claim to be on our side going off the reservation to support the Left’s latest hoax/power grab. The Trumpening has exposed so many so-called “conservatives” as being nothing more than dishonest grifters that it’s just not worth following anyone anymore after the onset of hysteria. You can’t tell if it’s symptomatic of temporary derangement that might improve, or evidence that someone’s been running a long-term con.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  RDittmar
4 months ago

Agree.

Thursday
Thursday
Reply to  Compsci
4 months ago

Z-man is, sadly, correct about Cochran. Cochran has completely lost his sh**t. His site is now like reading Nassim Taleb on Twitter; all froth and spittle. It isn’t helped by his terrible writing style and apparent lack of the ability to explain his position with anything approaching clarity. I would have thought he could look at it dispassionately given the very real level of uncertainty with our current data. But no. I wonder if the cause isn’t due to the fact he has been arguing against reality deniers for so long that he is stuck that mode: “Anyone who disagrees… Read more »

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
Reply to  RDittmar
4 months ago

Steve Sailer had cancer about 15 years ago. He may have experienced collateral damage from the cancer treatments that may increase his risk with COVID-19.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
4 months ago

Still doesn’t justify hysteria or making everyone else pay for his heightened risk. See Compsci’s peanut allergy anecdote. Admitted, I’ve been a Sailer detractor for a few years now, but he’s still being hysterical.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Abelard Lindsey
4 months ago

At least he has some reason for preaching caution. What’s Talib’s excuse for outright cowardice?

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Bill_Mullins
4 months ago

Taleb’s “precautionary principle” is a debateable approach to low-probability severe impact risks, but it’s not “cowardice.” All-caps Trumperism aside, lets you and him fight or settle down a bit.

Bill_Mullins
Member
Reply to  Exile
4 months ago

Could not disagree more. From where I sit Talib’s principle smacks far more of cowardice than caution. Oh, and for the record I am anything but an “all-caps Trumperist”. I just tend to call things as I see them. I have downloaded and read Talib et al’s papers and they appear to be outright cowardice wrapped in academic gobbledygook and collectivist nonsense. You and I will have to agree to disagree WRT Talib and his lily-livered ilk. I despise cowards even more than I despise ivory-tower academics. Both groups are culls and should be treated as such. Talib’s PPwould have… Read more »

hamsumnutter
hamsumnutter
4 months ago

“high risk category”? …. pass the Kool-Aid please.

Tarstarkusz
Tarstarkusz
4 months ago

The very people the press constantly lies about are spreading the junk in the press as if they weren’t known liars. To keep our guys out of it, Sam Harris knows just how dishonest our press is. The guy spends 1/2 of his public air time denying the lies told about him in the press. But when it comes to lies in the press about other people, he believes them without hesitation. It takes quite a bit of narcissism to see the world like this. The press is honest and competent in all matters except YOU and the subjects you… Read more »

Member
4 months ago

So, the CARES package passed and was signed, and it includes loans for small businesses harmed by the panic virus. Loans. I saw this movie. Guido: “Shame how your shop keeps gettin’ broke into, eh? Tell ya what, for just a little off the top, we’ll make sure that don’t happen again.” They destroy your business, then act like they’re doing you a favor by allowing you to become indebted to them to build it back up. If this were a movie plot, we’d know damn well whose head Clint Eastwood was going to put a bullet through by the… Read more »

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Vizzini
4 months ago

It’s nuts. Let me destroy your life, but here’s a fair interest rate on a loan. I literally can’t hike in a park by myself because the authorities have chained it off due to the “shelter in place.” You know what? Maybe I’ll jump over that chain to hike on property maintained by MY tax dollars and was put there for the benefit of ME. I think the founding fathers would already be on that hiking path. Or possibly shooting at the Governor’s mansion (I won’t go that far).

Member
Reply to  JR Wirth
4 months ago

(I won’t go that far)

Of course. None of us will. We’re all good citizens, here.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Vizzini
4 months ago

The $1,200 for “taxpayers” is an advance on 2020 tax returns aka a “tax-credit advance” on your own future tax payments, which will then be clawed back out of your 2020 return. Winning! The $1,200 amount also reduces between $75k and $99k AGI for individuals. The child credit and married/HH income thresholds are similarly constrained. $6-700 max for non-taxpayers. Pretty tight bandwidth for a relief package. I am curious to see just how much of this “cash” gets disbursed. Not exactly a middle-class windfall. Also interesting how the magic $100k income number hangs around these things – and has for… Read more »

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
4 months ago

I think that the culture of teaching women to “reject every aspect of womanhood” is the great crime of the age.

No, worse than a crime, a blunder.

Tarstarkusz
Tarstarkusz
Reply to  Christopher Chantrill
4 months ago

Never attribute to incompetence that which can be adequately explained by malice.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
4 months ago

Early in my life I accepted the maxim “never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence” and throughout my life this maxim has caused me to be blind to a whole lot of malice.

That maxim may have been a useful heuristic in an older time but it is strongly misleading and disarming in ours.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Tarstarkusz
4 months ago

Tars and Line, embrace “both”.

Wilbur Hassenfus
Wilbur Hassenfus
4 months ago

“Viruses don’t spread over time. If anybody has it, everybody gets it at once. Italy is a figment of your imagination. Spain is a figment off your imagination. All diseases are equally harmful. If you don’t die of it, nothing happened. All hospital beds are ICU beds. Arithmetic isn’t real. Doubling is linear. The number of confirmed cases is <1/8 of what it actually is, because numbers aren’t real. It’s just like the 1965 immigration act: If it’s not a disaster immediately, it can’t ever be any kind of a problem.” That was ZMan. And now, back to planet Earth:… Read more »

Whiskey
Whiskey
Reply to  Wilbur Hassenfus
4 months ago

Where are all the dead homeless in LA?

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Whiskey
4 months ago

Walking Dred. “Change… More change…. We wuz kangz…”

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Wilbur Hassenfus
4 months ago

Good strawman argument made in first paragraph. But unfortunately, not one made them here. Perhaps you meant to troll another group?