Old Think

The other day, Andrew Torba was scheduled to appear on the Tucker Carlson show so I figured out how to find it off the underground TV system. I no longer have a TV subscription, so I have to rely on the web for this stuff. Cord cutters can say what they like about services like Kodi, but it is a hassle compared to regular cable. So much so, in fact, that I rarely watch television. Instead, I download movies and TV shows and binge watch when the spirit moves me.

Anyway, I found a stream and tuned in to the show. I did not know when Torba’s segment was scheduled so I had to sit through the whole thing. Watching Tucker interview some old guy, I felt like I had gone back in time. I have not watched these shows in a long time. I get my news on-line. I skip the Blue Team – Red Team hooting that makes up political banter in the mainstream press. In fact, I barely notice most of what passes for current events discussion.

The Torba piece was short. Carlson spends little time on-line. The things Torba said about intent platforms censuring people was obviously news to Tucker. He was genuinely surprised when Torba explained the realities of who controls the internet and the power they have over speech. The reason for this is no one in the mass media understands any of this stuff. They live in the media bubble and the sorts of things we experience on-line are alien to them.

This is not a new phenomenon. Back in the old days when people were coming home every night to a dozen CD’s in the mail from ISP’s offering a free month of internet, the mass media was unaware the internet existed. I recall laughing myself silly one night, watching a couple of airheads on the local news in Boston, talk about “the mysterious underworld of the internet” as if it was the back room at Rick’s Cafe. They carried on like the internet was an opium den.

It is another example of the great divide. We are at the point now where most everyone under the age of fifty is getting their information from on-line sources. The median age for the TV chat shows is mid-60’s and the age for traditional print publications like magazines and journals is seventy. The people working the chat show circuit are people who came into the business from newspapers and political magazines. Even the young people on TV are living in the old mindset.

When you consume news on-line, you scan the high points until you land on something of interest. On a daily basis, I visit maybe ten sites. I do not read every word. Often, I just skim and move on. Social media provides a feed to skim the news. Information about the world is now a stream and you can dip your cup into as you see fit. Since you can absorb vastly more information by reading, the on-line experience is more informative and more customized to your interests.

News consumption in the information age is on-demand. You take what you want, when you want it, at the speed you want. The old model was an on-supply model. You got what they gave you, on their schedule and their pace. Sitting there watching Tucker and his guests plod through each segment was painful. I no longer have patience for the banter and mugging that is traditional television. I just want the facts and do not have any interest in their attempts to color it with their personal touch.

It is not just an age issue, but that is certainly a big part of it. The young people you see in the mass media are just fogy-ish as an old fogy. They are positive that the old model is still relevant. They create the news and supply it to you in doses they believe you can handle. Meanwhile, most people have consumed the stories via their social media accounts long before they turn up on the chat shows or big shot news sites. People tuned into see Torba inform Carlson about what was happening with speech on-line.

The people in charge get this to some degree. That is part of why they are berserk for cracking down on dissident speech on-line. Trump was elected because an ad-hoc army on disaffected people went on-line and drove the news cycle, while the people in charge were selling that old hag Clinton on TV chat shows that no one under the age of sixty bothers watching anymore. Their efforts to match this have resulted in memes like “How Do You Do, Fellow Kids?” where the old thinkers are made to look ridiculous.

It is tempting to cast this as a bad development. The Fake News phenomenon has simply been met with a guerrilla version of it. Mike Cernovich peddling Pizza Gate on twitter is just as corrosive as the New York Times making up stories about Trump. It is important to remember that the news has always been fake. In the 18th century factions had their newspapers promote false narratives in favor of their faction. It is the source of the Sally Hemmings stuff. Yellow Journalism was a thing before radio existed.

The only question today is the impact of the speed and volume. Fake News delivered by town crier can be mulled over and debated. Propaganda posing as news in the daily paper only comes in once a day. For people glued to their computers and mobile devices, being immersed in a solution of fake news, agit-prop and craven nonsense is a fact of life that is new to our age. Maybe it cancels itself out and all of it becomes background noise or maybe is erodes public trust and begins to set off panics. Or something else.

 

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Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
7 years ago

for me it comes down to not trusting even a single corporation, company, or institution. i basically read current events at aggregator sites, skimming as you mentioned. the only thing i trust are blogs that i have become familiar with over time. IMO, it is much more important to understand trends and direction of movement, than individual pieces of data. the absolute betrayal of its base — and America — by the gop, shocked me to my core. shocked because i thought a certain way about the system and considered myself well informed and realistic about human nature. but i… Read more »

Tim
Tim
Member
Reply to  Karl McHungus
7 years ago

That’s one thing you and I agree on Karl. I was a registered republican and always voted for them, grumbling, but doing it. Caught up in the red blue team hooting (wonderful perspective that and I’m going to steal it). Discovering it was a show, and you were played for a fool, is a deeply angering experience for people. No one really likes being the butt of a joke, and that betrayal is driving more of our politics than people realize. Tim

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Tim
7 years ago

is there anything specific you disagree with me on?

Anonymous White Male
Anonymous White Male
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

I remember doing a bit for my acquaintances in the 90’s about the Clinton/Dole divide. Picture them on the debate platform. “You are a pervert, sir, and not worthy to be president!” “You are a troglodyte that opposes positive, organic change in our nation!” Debate over. “Hey, Bob. Your wife sure is hot. Can I screw her?” “Only if Bob Dole can screw Chelsea.” “Great! Bring the wife over to the White House tonight and we’ll play it by ear. Be sure and bring some Cuban cigars.” Yep. Its just a show. And now, with Trump backtracking on everything he… Read more »

Amateur Brain Surgeon
Amateur Brain Surgeon
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure that out but what you write promoted me to remember (I am the same age as Israel) when I learned about Pravda and Izvestia and I thought the poor Russians were being lied to by their own gov’t every day. Ane then, finally, I realised that I was, in effect, living in Russia and my gov’t lies to me each day. I live in Florida and there was a story in the Palm Beach Post about congressional creeps Marco Rubio and Bill Nelson handing out water at a parking lot in… Read more »

Rod1963
Rod1963
Reply to  Amateur Brain Surgeon
7 years ago

The fact is what is news is decided by a paper or TV networks editorial board via fiat. Most papers just buy their news from AP and other newswires.and add their own filler stories.

News that offends the advertisers automatically gets nixed. The same for news that makes certain local pols look bad. News that hurts the real-estate market the same. News that makes minorities look bad gets the same treatment.

By the time they are all we have left is some feel good stories, a few local crime stories, weather and sports porn.

.

Amateur Brain Surgeon
Amateur Brain Surgeon
Reply to  Rod1963
7 years ago

Yep. As for real estate, when you earn a local politician is buying up suspect property, get some of the same questionable dirt also as it is likely there will be upcoming changes in land use etc. Years ago, the local pols began buying up land on a then obscure road that was later rezoned. What a shock… A former mayor purchased properties in a homeless populated, drug-rampant inner city zone and then the city swooped in and “cleaned-up” the place but not as much as the mayor cleaned-up on her purchase of distressed properties when she sold them for… Read more »

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Rod1963
7 years ago

Quite so. Local radio and TV affiliates no longer have any editorial discretion at all. You left out one thing: They never miss the “news releases” from the Governor’s office, or the State AG’s office, or any downstate college poll showing that our beloved leader, A Cuomo, remains widely popular, or that some bold new initiative has emerged from the mind of one of our progressive senators… none of these initiatives are heard about again, but that’s the point. It’s like Winston Smith eating his lunch in the Minitrue cafeteria, hearing about the advances in the production of pig iron,… Read more »

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

When I lived in the heart of Empire in the 80s, I listened to Braden and Buchanan daily on WRC… their gig ended because, as I recall, Tom couldn’t stand Pat. My guess is that Pat was too earnest, that he didn’t see things from the “DC” point of view, that he wasn’t a cynic like Braden and the rest of the gang. To a lifelong Washingtonian nothing says “rube” like believing in what you say. Pat in this sense was a rube. The whole idea of the olde-tyme ‘debate’ format was to keep discourse within the bounds drawn by… Read more »

there was a time when...
there was a time when...
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

DC is Hollywood with a military and bueros.

Georgiaboy61
Member
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

If you have to ask who the “mark” is, it is probably you!

bilejones
Member
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

The parties are merely the two wings of the same bird of prey.

Anonymous White Male
Anonymous White Male
7 years ago

“Mike Cernovich peddling PizzaGate on twitter is just as corrosive as the New York Times making up stories about Trump.” I actually don’t know the truth about PizzaGate. The way in which the MSM has avoided this makes you wonder. And the only people I have seen online that oppose the narrative of high-ranking politicos engaging in molesting children (oh, no….that never happens) dismiss PizzaGate with “Everyone knows this is a lie!” Repeat hundreds of times over hundreds of sites. I have been of the opinion that if the MSM says the sky is blue, I know it is really… Read more »

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Anonymous White Male
7 years ago

cernovich and others (like kim “fatass” dotcom) explicitly said they had video and documentary proof of pizzagate, and that they would release it to the public within 24 hours. never happened. maybe it is true, but until the videos come out, i just ignore pizzagate articles (and note who is promoting them).

Toddy Cat
Toddy Cat
Reply to  Karl McHungus
7 years ago

Pizzagate was probably just BS, but it was weird, and it did seem to make some pretty high-level people uncomfortable. There have been pedo sex scandals in Britain and Europe, and I doubt that our elites are any more moral than theirs are. You can’t help but wonder if this wasn’t a publicity stunt by Cernovitch et. al. that nonetheless hit just a little too close to home for some people…

Rod1963
Rod1963
Reply to  Toddy Cat
7 years ago

We have Epstein’s “pervert island” which apparently has been visited by a who’s who of D.C.

No one wants to touch that story or investigate it.

Remember the D.C. Madam who was found hanging in her garage? Stone silence from the press and police.

Sim1776
Sim1776
Reply to  Toddy Cat
7 years ago

When you read the actual emails from Podesta’s account from the Wikileaks dump, there is a certain creepiness to the language used. I feel Pizzagate was used as a distraction from the fact that the Podesta brothers were involved in some really weird occult shit. Abramovich and the imagery that she publishes is disturbing to say the least. Really bad optics for the campaign manager of a presidential candidate who already has major image issues. Im in my 40s and get none of my info from the boob tube. Even reading online articles, I pay close attention to the words… Read more »

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Sim1776
7 years ago

There is certainly something there.
The Podesta’s are almost certainly pedophiles, close friends of Clement Freud and frequent visitors to his Portuguese holiday villa.
Even the conservative Daily Telegraph noted the connection to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/15/police-were-told-two-years-ago-about-clement-freuds-madeleine-mc/

Anonymous White Male
Anonymous White Male
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

Did you record the process while it was being created? I would love to see it. And if true, then Cernovich cannot be trusted. He would just be another participant in the fake news world. We will never hear anything from the media about how they beat the false dead horse of Trump/Russian collusion. If we can’t trust our side as well, then we are just left with busting caps in people’s asses. It would be a great move by Cernovich to admit he was played. But, if he did, he would be discredited by the opposite side and would… Read more »

Ryan
Ryan
Reply to  Anonymous White Male
7 years ago

A grifter is aware that they’re lying to you. Mike Cernovich is full of shit, but I strongly doubt he realizes it.

A.T. Tapman (Merica)
A.T. Tapman (Merica)
Member
Reply to  Ryan
7 years ago

Mike is trying to grind out a few pesos pedaling his monkey book. Everything is about selling the monkey book, everything.

Ryan
Ryan
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

PizzaGate may have been a 4Chan prank, but InfoWars has been on team a satanic cult of pedophiles secretly rules the world since I was in college in the early 2000’s. I got to watch Alex Jones when he was only on public access in Austin. Seeing what he’s done in the last decade and a half leaves me a) very impressed by his entrepreneurial skills,b) terribly disconcerted by man’s ability to believe horseshit, and c) in total agreement that an internet full of false information is dangerous.

forest grump
Member
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

That may be the case in pizzagate, but there are a lot of pedo’s and occultists in positions of power .

here is one example: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/09/12/gatekeeper-of-dc-society-sally-quinn-comes-out-as-occultist-used-hex-to-kill-people/

and there is a LOT of these stories , which give me hope that not all
of law enforcement as been turned.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/13/at-least-11-mayors-accused-of-child-sex-related-crimes-since-2016/ .

as I recall this summer there was a pedo ring busted up this summer that led to arrests all over Europe of mid level government and bureaucratic functionaries. .

Our rulers are as depraved as the emperors of the late roman empire .

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  thezman
7 years ago

Zman, are Twitter and 4chan somehow immune to the disinformatzya trolls of the NSA?

Bunny
Bunny
Reply to  Anonymous White Male
7 years ago

Regardless of the truth, Clinton seems to think Pizzagate and other “fake news” was instrumental her defeat. “‘You had counties that had voted for Obama and were not particularly keen about voting for Trump, but worried that I was going to jail, worried that I was, you know, running a child trafficking operation in the basement of a pizzeria.’ This in reference to the Pizzagate scandal, which Hillary insisted was a complete falsehood cooked up by a Russian conspiracy (her words) to discredit her. ‘And you put yourself in the position of a low-information voter, and all of a sudden… Read more »

Caleo
Caleo
7 years ago

In this case, you’re completely wrong about Tucker. I don’t watch TV, but I watch segments from Tucker’s show on YouTube. He is very aware of what’s going on. Generally, he invites witless Progs on his show and then eviscerates them with basic facts and logic. Right after Trump won he had on some folks from the New York Times, and he made them look like fools. Nicholas Kristof was one of them. As you know, these people have a platform that creates the impression that they are omniscient sophisticates. Tucker popped the bubble and made them look like the… Read more »

JerryC
JerryC
Reply to  Caleo
7 years ago

I agree, Tucker is very sharp. There’s no way any of this is news to him. He was probably acting all shocked for the benefit of all the old geezers in his audience who don’t do much online. It is a TV show, after all.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  JerryC
7 years ago

don’t talk about Zman that way! 😀

James LePore
Member
Reply to  Caleo
7 years ago

Tucker is the only thing I’ll watch on cable news.

Saml Adams
Saml Adams
Reply to  Caleo
7 years ago

Remember the Boot piece and it was a classic. Back when Tucker started I characterized his interview style (on the long pieces) as methodically picking the appendages off a Daddy Longlegs. Really quite effective and the hubris of Progressives keeps them coming on thinking “but I’ll be the guy that bests Tucker”

Epaminondas
Member
7 years ago

Part of Tucker’s schtick is to look incredulous or puzzled. I would bet my bottom dollar he regularly dips into Breitbart, Drudge, and other websites.

The move away from TV news by the younger audience can only be an improvement over the Orwellian Info Monster coming out of Manhattan.

Dutch
Dutch
7 years ago

The new Apple phone is going to be able to identify your face and know, even if it is off, if you are in the room through facial identification. So it will take a “face-print” of every site we call up and every page we read. Can’t see what could ever go wrong with that!

You will not escape the attention of the Borg.

Doc
Doc
Reply to  Dutch
7 years ago

Maybe I’m paranoid, but do you suppose the ancestry companies collect your DNA for the deep state?

Member
Reply to  Doc
7 years ago
Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Doc
7 years ago

I’m assuming the deep state has everything on everyone. In most cases, they just aren’t sure what to do with it yet.

forest grump
Member
Reply to  Dutch
7 years ago

yes. I’m sure they do

Severian
7 years ago

I imagine former Soviet Bloc citizens can answer that. The only difference between now and then is speed. imagine Yakov Smirnoff’s voice for this if you want: In Soviet Russia, you can assume all the official news is fake, but you can’t assume the samizdat is true; the security services may have planted it. Current best estimates for the Stasi and Securitate (Romanian secret police) have anywhere from 30-50% of the *entire population* on the payroll in some capacity. Theodore Dalrymple wrote that a Romanian dissent estimated it would take 5 generations to overcome the corrosive social-psychological effects of communism… Read more »

james wilson
james wilson
7 years ago

I’ve quizzed a couple dozen young people about where they get their “news”. They actually don’t know, which is the first important understanding, but the answers they give to my questions are straight out of Google or Yahoo home page. After informing one girl of an irrefutable fact which contradicted the narrative, and after some astonishment and perhaps trepidation, she asked me where I got my facts. Before telling her how I gathered facts I told her it would be more productive for her to question how she got hers for the first time. My process of gathering information–your process–did… Read more »

bilejones
Member
Reply to  james wilson
7 years ago

“The Borg are winning but the losers are much more fun.”
The Borg won in the 1950’s with CIA direction of the TV stations and the “NYT & WAPO Papers of Record” with Operation Mockingbird.
They are slowly starting to lose.
It will be interesting to see if the rearguard action by google, facefuck and twatter.

Member
7 years ago

Fox’s entire daily show is on YouTube. Some feeds are live ( with no pause or reverse ) and some feeds are live BUT have a 4 hour cache, so you can go back and watch , much like a DVR. I watch Tucker this way ( I am also a cord cutter ).

Steven Johnson
7 years ago

Village culture, in which news traveled by word of mouth from one trusted source to another, produced some remarkable mass delusions and enthusiasms, perhaps more than the age of top-down news did. We might be looking at another golden age of popular crazes, if we’re not in one already.

TomA
TomA
7 years ago

There is an insidious aspect to the mass media fake news business that bears comment. Immersion in false or contradictory information causes brain damage in the sense that it defeats the benefits of rationality. In others words, you can actually become stupider via the process of habitual exposure, and this addiction sets up a vicious cycle of mental degradation. The end-state is sheeple who reflexively react to buzz words and phrases with programmed behaviors. It is the death of independent thought.

Member
Reply to  TomA
7 years ago

Hey TomA: I would agree with you, but first, I have to find out what other people think.

Ryan
Ryan
7 years ago

Traditional TV is going to die of. A TV channel is nothing but a non-interactive website that streams content you probably don’t want to watch most of with annoying ads that can’t be skipped. A normal internet site is superior in practically every way. Cognition in an era where almost all information is untrue is a hell of an interesting problem. As others have pointed out in the Soviet Union some lies were so reliably lies that one might infer the truth from the pattern. But the falseness of information in our era doesn’t pattern off the truth in any… Read more »

Lorenzo
Lorenzo
Reply to  Ryan
7 years ago

Problem is, it costs money to gather the facts that constitute news. With dwindling revenues, there are fewer people being paid to dig up information, so what we’re fed as news, is talking heads bloviating about whatever is the hot issue of the day.

Print media spend too much on editorial writers and teevee spends too much blonde newsreaders and both not enough on people out in the world finding stuff out.

So we get dumber every year.

Member
Reply to  Lorenzo
7 years ago

Hi, Lorenzo: The end result of mass dissemination of information is ignorance and conformity. As for myself, I am not getting dumber. I am just losing my mind.

bilejones
Member
7 years ago

We all know that Pedophilia is the next depravity to be “normalized”, right.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/revised-uk-child-sexual-consent-guidelines-provoke-backlash.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
7 years ago

Zaestro, is “Old Thought” a play on 1984’s “Old Speak”?

Steve Ryan
Steve Ryan
7 years ago

“Or something else.” Nothing like leaving a cliffhanger for the next post! 🙂

Someone
Someone
7 years ago

I’ve been using the internet for news since ’99 when I paid about $10/month for internet dial-up. I could not stand the lefty BS of the local rag. These guy were behind 20 years ago and still are by the looks of it.

jbspry
jbspry
7 years ago

“It’s important to remember that the news has always been fake.”

If children only learned that and nothing more in our schools, the world would be transformed.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
7 years ago

re:cord cutting, Hulu has a live service that is pretty compelling. for about $40 a month, you get a ton of channels — including local networks — and a cloud DVR. there are a bunch of sports channels too, for those so inclined. beats the hell out of cable and other online services.

Bill
Bill
7 years ago

It’s important to remember that the news has always been fake.

billb
billb
7 years ago

It’s pretty simple to find the show you want and not wade thru the parts you don’t want. Go to YouTube and type Andrew Sorba tucker in the search bar.