Most of us have a lefty in our lives. No matter how hard you try to avoid talking politics or current events with them, it always happens and you come away frustrated by the experience. The reason for this is Lefty is nothing but political, so even discussing the weather can lead to them veering the conversation into something like global warming. Progressives have politicized every nook and cranny of life, so dealing with a liberal means wrangling over progressivism.
What makes it doubly frustrating is that normal people tend to treat people as if they are normal, rather than members of a bizarre cult. You forget yourself and make a reference to current events and all of a sudden, you are wrangling with lefty over some topic in a way you find deeply frustrating. Usually, they take something you have said and twist it around so that you find yourself trying to argue about something you never intended to discuss. It is as if they exist to be a social irritant.
That is the first rule when dealing with lefty. As soon as you realize you are dealing with one of these people, accept that everything they say is the opposite. The progressive mind is a lot like the mind of a criminal, in that it assumes its own guilt and acts accordingly. The criminal says things to lead prying eyes away from their own culpability. The progressive will accuse others of things he or his cult are doing at the moment. When they accuse X of something, it means lefty is doing it.
The Russian hacking stuff is turning out to be a great example of this. Exactly no one in America thought about the possibility of Boris and Natasha scheming to upset the last election, until out of the blue, lefty started saying it. A year later we have learned that it was not Trump working with the Russians, but members of the cult inside government that were scheming with the Russians. None of this would have come to light, but the guilty minds of the left compelled them to accuse others of their criminality.
Similarly, the progressive, on an individual basis, will seek to shift the focus from the topic at hand to something related, but far enough away from the topic to send the conversation off on a tangent. The most common method is “What about X?” Mention some failing of Progressives and Lefty will blurt out “what about X among your right-wingers?” Normal decent people respond to questions and Lefty uses that decency to avoid addressing the failings of his cult. Lefty naturally shifts the focus off himself.
Another trick Lefty will use is to start talking about exceptions. This is another way of distracting from some obvious truth, like the fact blacks commit a lot of crime, to a debate about exceptions and outliers. The alt-right boys call this tactic NAXALT, as in Not All X Are Like That. As with the above tactic, this is all about shifting the focus from an unpleasant topic for Lefty. Put the two together and in a few questions, lefty can shift the conversation so far from the original topic, you no longer remember what you were saying.
This is why you always avoid answering a question from lefty. The surest way to send him into a panic, is to respond to the “What about X” trick with “Let’s not lose focus” and then return to the original point. An alternative is “We can talk about that, but first let’s focus on” and then get back to the issue. This almost always causes them to spasm as they are being forced to address an unpleasant topic and what they thought was an easy escape is now turning into a trap. Often, they just walk away or explode in anger.
That is the thing to keep in mind when dealing with lefty. You can no more convince them to question their faith than you can talk a schizophrenic out of being crazy. All they can be for you is a prop, or, if you get good at tormenting them, a toy to kill some time when you have time to kill. This is the hardest thing for normal people to accept. Normal people think they can cure Lefty by presenting facts and evidence. There is no cure. These people are forever lost to a form of mental illness. Just accept that and act accordingly.
Most important, when dealing with lefty, always make him the focus. A good tactic is what that British dunce Cathy Newman tried to do to Jordan Peterson. “So, what your position is…” is a good way to focus on Lefty in a very personal way. They hate this. They want to believe they are simply accepting transcendent truths, rather than their own individual opinion. That is the thing with people in cults. They hate themselves. That is why they are in a cult so they no longer have to face themselves or have their own identity.
By personalizing the topic, re-framing it as their opinion or their belief, it has the effect of separating them from the herd. Often, they will become quite passive and even submissive. That is because Lefty has no opinions of his own. He truly is the Borg and the Borg is him. He sees no separation between himself and the faith, so isolating him rhetorically makes him feel detached from his true identity. It is why liberals always set their chat shows up as a gang attack on some helpless non-liberal.
Finally, always insist on clear, plain language. A central tactic of the left is to disrupt the opposition by sabotaging the language. The habit of expanding the definition of words to include fringe or dubious examples, then contracting the definition to exclude the original stuff. The use of modifiers to turn definitions on their head or neologism that conjure banal or even pleasant images for negative things. The game is to force you to accept their language, which is a back doorway of forcing their moral framework on you.
I’m late to the party but just wanted to add one point that no one except Dutch addressed at all.
I agree with everything in this essay except for one line: “There is no cure. These people are forever lost to a form of mental illness.” Yet we know this isn’t literally true because there are some former leftists who eventually turned Conservative. (Mike Vanderboegh comes to mind but there are many others.) And they usually wind up being stronger Conservative voices than most, simply because they’ve seen the dark side and know the evil we are fighting against intimately.
I despise the left as much as anyone but I cannot bring myself to hate them. Really, if one believes in the Lord, then one knows that there is always hope. No one can be written off as “forever lost” during their lifetime, because we are all His children.
As Shiboleth suggested, I think the God fearing among us have a responsibility to at least give some thought to deprogramming methods. It may be impossible, it may be too late, we might not be up to the task, but I think we have to try, for His sake.
How to be a social justice warrior – a hilarious mocking of the SJW.
https://youtu.be/ZBdnyrzq96s
I don’t know if it’s due to my personality or my lack of interaction with leftists for the most part, that makes me unable to debate or discuss things with them.
Every time I try, I find myself going into deconstructionism and nihilism, within minutes. I just can’t muster the energy or desire. They just depress me, even being in the same room.
Otherwise, I would do what I want to do whenever they speak-punch them in the mouth. So, I just avoid them.
The one I like to use, whenever they make some pronouncement, as if it is an obvious and universally accepted truth, is to say: If you really believe that, then there’s something far wrong with your thinking.
You can almost hear the train inside their brain coming off the rails and crashing.
Or – as you say – insist that they define their terms. Simple but effective. (And often amusing.)
As in: No, you said i[insert word here]. Explain what you mean by that.
There is no arguing people out of their positions. The best you can do is to get uncommitted or questioning observers to go along with you.
One thing I tell those I am debating, “I hope you get what you want – for you. Let liberals be liberals, let conservatives be conservatives, etc. Just don’t rope me into your schemes. I don’t mind your opinions – you may even be right in some respects. I just don’t like being imposed on. I am against coercion.” Of course most debaters will agree that imposition is wrong; it’s a tough sell to say otherwise. Panarchy is the term for this notion that people should get what they advocate for.
I don’t think frontal attacks work very well. Turn the flanks, as B. Liddell Hart used to say.
I recently had occasion to engage a young lady of the “liberal” persuasion in a political discussion. A typical leftist, she soon displayed her complete ignorance of history. She had not the slightest clue of the intersection between Islam and the Nazis.
So ignorant was she that she actually posited to me that that Muhammad and the establishment of Islam was historically concurrent with St. Peter and the foundation of the Catholic Church in Rome. She further claimed that North Africa had always been Muslim. Seriously this young lady actually believed these absurdities.
Rather than asking her how stupid she really was, I asked her if she knew the difference was between 64 and 635. Realising at that point that she had painted herself into a corner, rather than answering the question, she responded that “I hate Socratic arguments,” I.e. “I hate reason and logic.” If ever there was an admission that not only had she lost the argument but that she really had no argument to begin with, that was it. She then retreated and left before she could further embarrass herself.
That was to bad because I only had one more question for her. Namely, “How can you expect to form cognizant opinions about a question of present circumstances when you are admittedly ignorant of the established events of the past from which they originate?
Z, regarding the tactic of NAXALT…I plead guilty to using this tactic. Here’s my supporting argument: I believe in God; His chosen people exhibited both the worst and the best in humanity; there were the Pharisees who lied about Jesus to get Him killed and thought they were superior to everyone among other things; then there is the other half including God Himself – Jesus the Christ, the Apostles and the Holy Mother. This is our example of how “not all X are like that”.
One must believe in God to see this.
A few posts ago you said:”I’ve gotten better at talking about these things with normies and reality-curious Progressives. I have a library of pithy stories and examples to make it easy for them to accept biological reality on their terms. In the case of reality-curious Progressives, I frame things in moral terms. It does not always work, but it keeps them from shrieking “Witch! Witch!” and notifying the authorities. ”
If you would be willing to share a few of pithy stories and example I think that would make a fascinating and useful post. I find it best to illustrate ones assertions with real life examples. For example, race is a subject that the vast majority of Americans have been so heavily propagandized into that they are incapable of speaking of race honestly, though many can still act honestly. I often try to point out the stupidity of insisting on treating each and every human being as though we know absolutely nothing about that individual, when in fact if we know their race we know quite a lot, on average. I like to ask them whether they would let their young children or grandchildren play in a yard full of pit bulls as a way of illustrating that pre-judgement, which they call prejudice, is often right, important and useful.
Me: So exactly what genocide did white people inflict on Aborigines?
Lefty: Uggh. Pick up a history book moron.
Me: Answer the question. What genocide?
Lefty: Well, well, but, you know, the, you know…..RACIST!
Bull Shit! Just shoot them in the face and walk away. Done deal with that lefty.
Tried to have discussion with a comrade about oil being made today by ocean plant life via methane that turns into oil, and when he could not rationally back up his denial, physically attacked me.
A person, well practiced in the Socratic Method, can usually cause immense cognitive dissonance in “Lefty”. You know you are winning when they say that they don’t know the facts. They will then declare and retreat to “how they feel” about an issue.
Ask them what percent of CO2 is worrisome to them. Ask them what percent of the atmosphere is currently CO2 (0.04%). Ask them what level of national debt would indicate a problem with the financial system. Or what the current US debt in dollars is presently (21.4 trillion). Or what the entire networth of America is in dollars (84 trillion), for example.
Don’t give them the answers. Watch them struggle for (or with) the unknown facts. This works well with most neocons (after all, they are Lefties, too).
Study the method, then have fun!
So, what you really mean when you say “pro choice” is that you advocate the murder of helpless children for the crime of being inconvenient, annoying, or expensive.
then they say it is not a child, it is a clump of cells. but if little miss progressive gets prego it is a child, baby showers, gifts, etc. it is a child if you want it, clump of cells if you do not want it. do as you please with no moral consequences. these people will gladly slip the noose around your neck. just like Muslim countries, a select few cut off heads, stone, and whip others, but the cult followers join in on the festivities by the the thousands.
That’s why the Lefties do not want a “Gay gene” discovered. Because suddenly some folks will choose to eliminate. THEN suddenly it’s NOT just a bundle of cells to them but much more.
These are the same people who stirred up crowds about witches 500 years ago. And the same people who looked into peoples’ windows to make sure they weren’t doing something to violate God’s laws. They never change.
Re “NAXALT”: Doesn’t “X” , the exception to the rule or premise, validate or confirm the underlying rule or premise?
So . . . “You’re right, not all “X” are like that or do that; so then you do agree that . . .”
Get the smelling salts.
Doesn’t this then focus the discussion on the underlying facts, rationale, premises and conclusions?
“Do not impose your wishes on reality”, as someone once said.
Life is not perfectly linear, except in theory.
Progs engage in SIN to avoid pain.
Shift the subject. Ignore the facts. Name call.
-Herman Cain-
SJWs always project….so go immediately at what they are projecting from. Russians?= Uranium One.
This is so much like some of my experiences. Spot on.
Would be helpful if folks would stop referring to their opponents as “liberals” and instead use the term “leftist.” There is nothing liberal about the hateful and bigoted leftists, and there is no reason to allow the left to be considered as liberal. Thanks!
Reminding a liberal to stay focused is quite amusing. I’ve had them stand up from a table in anger and head toward me. Of course I said it with all due respect that a liberal/progressive deserves, which is none. Take a statement made by a liberal and point it back at them as a question in opposition to their position can generate a volatile reaction also. Too easy. There’s no point in trying to win them over. Strictly for entertainment.
Ran into a kid today at the phone store. He worked there a couple days a week , but spent most of the time smoking medical marijuana in his parents basement.
Hated President Trump but really couldn’t give any good reasons why. He was however a big Bernie Sanders supporter.
I ignored the president Trump insults and keep hammering the fact Hillary screwed over Bernie big time.
He admitted no one liked Hillary yet seemed embarrassed to admit it
I kept up the “Bernie got screwed” over thing and it really seemed to take the wind out of his sails.
It seemed effective. it’s going to be my new tactic with the young Bernie Sanders supporters. 😉
I cut off any progressives left in my life back in 2008. This included a friend of decades. No regrets – life is too short to waste on BS and people who want to destroy everything I hold dear.
I have a progressive loon ‘friend’ on Facebook who loves to post long-winded ‘corrections’ to my posts. I gave up trying to convince him of anything as he is impervious to facts or reason. Now I just immediately delete anything he posts on my page. I try not to read a single word before deleting but sometimes snippets like “dog whistle”, “right-winger”, “denier”, “consensus”, “FOX”, “man-caused” etc. jump out as I delete. Some day I might tell him that he was only wasting his time these last few years.
here are the arguments i use with sjws
1) if america is so racist, then how come more blacks have come here voluntarily than during the slave trade?
2) if women were really being paid 77 cents for a dollar a man made – wouldn’t that actually mean that women were thought as more valuable employees?
3) Why do you have to be an egalitarian. Should there be affirmative action for nfl punt returners?
4) What if residential patterns are the result of preference and not segregation (although the answer I get for this is “that is the same argument that segregationists have been saying for decades” which has me stumped)
5) if white people are racist, how come they let in many nonwhites in the u.s.? Do you think a majority black or amerindian country would let whites into there country?
The arguments I use for SJWs are from the headknocker lesson plan: Right Hook, left Uppercut, Straight Right to sternum. The last is my favorite, I enjoy watching them attempt to catch their breath while in the dying cockroach position. And if this doesn’t teach them a lesson you might have to show them your S&W.
I have them in my family and they are mostly intolerable to be around. I simply don’t have contact with them beyond email at this point. From full on SJW, to the now cliche “libertarian-who-is-really-just-a-cuck-in-hiding” to gamma-boy tendencies, I’ve seen the full spectrum of reality-deniers, up close and personal. It is a mental illness, of sorts, because they are impervious to facts, even facts drawn from their OWN LIVES and EXPERIENCES, if those facts violate their world view. And everything becomes an instant Rorschach tests because of this if you are around them long enough. Not sure how to drag them out of it, other than sequestered deprogramming like the anti-cult movement of the 70s.
Speaking of “Lefty”, Barack Obama’s national portrait has six fingers on his left hand! Digit fluidity I guess.
You can’t talk to a member of a cult, you can’t reason with him, and you can’t trust anything he says or does. Only when he is ready to jump ship from the cult do you have a chance.
I get exposed to the cult members, even in my own family, and can think of nothing other than Jim Jones in Guyana. Sooner or later they will be expected to drink the poisoned kool-aid.
The Lefty only believes in evolution and natural selection when dealing with a Creationist-believing Christian. When it comes to race, not so much.
Did you see this one, Z? Pretty hilarious. If it had been a white kid, they’d have smacked it down quick, but it’s a kid of Asian ancestry, so you can almost feel the conflict the writer and school administrators are suffering. The fact that he actually conducted a scientific study, and that his scientific study has identified the same gaps as we see on the ACT, SAT, and virtually every IQ test ever devised by man regardless of socioeconomic status is completely ignored.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article199440204.html
Another very good strategy, particularly if you’re out there arguing with the crazies on social media, blogs, etc. is to simply ignore their points and keep making your own. Repeatedly, and with examples, preferably by linking them to Lefty media. My favorite last week was sending them to Vanity Fair where they could read VF’s puff piece on how that dossier got written…page after page about how Steele’s contacts worked at the Kremlin.
That VF column was back when Steele was Hero of the Resistance (April 2017), and VF didn’t know Hillary was paying the bills.
I don’t reply to people because I’m trying to convert them. I’m simply laying out warning signs for people who wander through there later. I’m frequently told by friends that they think Sally is a nutbag, but Sally is one of their customers or they see her a lot in public and don’t need the hassles…so they appreciate that I’ll come along and say the thing that simply needs to be said. A common character trait of Progs isn’t simply that they are religious disciples. The Mormons are too. The problem with the Progs is that they are VINDICTIVE, and will definitely come after you, so you have to watch your back.
Can’t tell you how many times last week I wrote the following:
“Clinton/DNC $$$$–>Coie Perkins$$$–>FusionGPS$$–>Christopher Steele$–>Kremlin Agents”
I’m not writing that because I suddenly expect Sally to say to herself, “Holy cow! He’s right! Hillary WAS working with the Russians!” I write that because it is a simple, easy to understand, unbroken chain of money from Hillary to the Kremlin with NO BREAKS OR GAPS. It is a straight line that even the most numbnuts FBI Agent could understand and trace…which throws a spear right through Sally’s chest and her “impeach Trump” screeds.
I feel bad for the Asian kid and his/her family. They probably thought they were doing a great project. Now they have to move.
The mega question is . . . what do we do about the tens of millions of people who can no longer think cognitively nor recognized reality in daily life? Persuasion therapy is a pipe dream. Lead by example sounds nice, until the amydala-driven mob starts rioting. Evolution provides a clue. Why not create an environment where they must use their wits to survive and thrive? Otherwise known as anti-dependency.
The best strategy for discussions with most white leftists about race realism is to point out that where they work, who they are friends with, who they date, where they live, where they send their kids to school, where they hang out, etc are in majority white places among few NAMs.
In terms of what they actually do, not what they say, they act no different than someone who understands race realism.
That usually makes them hate me but also ends the argument.
This, exactly. A leftist friend who recently told me she thought open borders were a great idea decided to buy a house in an all white, conservative town rather than in a largely black/hispanic town next door. She could have bought a larger house there, but she preferred the smaller house in the all white neighborhood, at the top of her budget. I guess diversity is better for other people.
Did you call her on it?
Yes. She wasn’t amused, especially when I told her not to feel bad about it, because the ghetto town next door would eventually wash over her cute little all white town like a muddy tidal wave.
My question to the open border idiots is, “Do you lock your doors? Why?”
Once upon a time I stumbled upon the empirical realities of race realism. Because I finally found the logical connection between science and many social outcomes, I took to using statistics and scientific evidence to refute my leftist friends at work.
I work with otherwise very smart coworkers in an empirically focused field and was confused when they would consistently try to dismantle my arguments in ways that were illogical and increasingly about questioning the sciences I spoke about (cognitive sciences, evolution, biology, statistics, etc).
It became readily apparent that scientific evidence, no matter how concrete, would change their opinions. They were unreasonable in ways that mimicked the hyper-religious right debating atheist types – incapable of considering anything beyond their religion. At that point I began to understand leftist progressive ideology as a religion.
That is where we are in this debate. We are no longer dealing with people capable of rational opinions. They are dedicated to their bizarre moral framework without historical foundation and the tenets of their increasingly arbitrary and evolving religion.
Luckily, most of the leftists are not zealots and are simply people that are easily swayed by a dominant moral narrative or simply do not have the time/inclination to critically examine reality. If we can break down the leftist arguments publicly and in an empirical manner, we may be able to persuade the public of the merits of our arguments.
Most of all just have fun , once you get good at dealing with lefty it can be quite entertaining.
My favorite tactic is agreeing with them as they speak until the very end and then blurting out “ you don’t actually believe that shit do you”. They looks on there face are priceless.
I love how they claim they believe in science, and then have no response when you ask them how many genders there are, if there is a correlation between race and IQ, if nuclear power and GMOs are safe, if men are genetically better at math, or to explain the science of embryos.
The alt-right boys call this tactic NAXALT, as in Not All X Are Like That.
You might have mentioned it on here yourself, but lefties are absolute geniuses when it comes to conflating “some”, “most”, and “all”. It’s disingenuous in the extreme.
“Similarly, the Progressive, on an individual basis, will seek to shift the focus from the topic at hand to something related, but far enough away from the topic to send the conversation off on a tangent.”
A tactic my friends and I like to refer to as “The Texas-Two Step”. As you say the tactic is to keep them on the present subject and they are defenseless. The one-trick pony or bumper sticker talking point has been used and nothing to back it up with, so they are left scrambling for anyway to get out of the trap they set for themselves.
My analogy of the day is Clubber Lang in the first fight against Balboa in Rocky 3. Lang has Rocky pinned in the corner and wailing away on him. Balboa tries to get out of the corner, but Lang stiff arms him and gets him right back in the corner to pummel him more. That’s how defenseless the typical lib is once the talking point has been brushed aside
The most amazing phenomenon is when they actually acknowledge what you say is true, but then instantly forget it, and never allow it to alter their beliefs. These are the people of science.
If I discover a person is a liberal, or even strongly suspect it, I cut the conversation short. I really do not want to be in the same room with these people and don’t want them around me.
Using their own tactics against them works when chosen carefully.
Once an atheist nurse began spouting off about how Christianity is stupid and all wars are wars of religion and religion has killed more people than anything. I went to the department director and had the nurse kicked out of my room and banned from assisting me. Talk about a departmental cultural change.
Another instance was similar, only this was a left wing anesthesiologist. Banning him made it difficult for the schedulers and his entire group, hurt him in the pocket book, and everyone knew that the problem was him, not me. I never said boo about much, but these people knew I was conservative and said things trying to trigger me. They got triggered back big time.
Just dealing with it is not enough. Figure out subtle, and not so subtle ways to continually fuck over the other side. Work at it like a chess game.
The reason I talk about the Left as a religious cult is it triggers the hell out of them. Whenever I’m dealing with a Progressive, I keep shifting the conversation back to the topic of liberalism being a puritanical secular religion. Their positions are not based in facts and reason, but based in the tenets of the faith. It really makes them crazy.
Admittedly, I have far fewer liberal friends as a result, but I don’t miss them.
Equality is liberal creationism. Make sure and call them creationists, they really hate that.
So true. No where in evolution can you find a reason for equality. Only religion can justify it.
People who appeal to evolution as authority moreso than others usually reveal themselves at some point not to believe in it.
I have heard this “religious wars” nonsense quite a bit from lefties. I always ask them to name the last religious war. Aside from some recent muslim on muslim action (e.g Iraq-Iran) , they have to go back 1K years to the crusades, which over hundreds of years killed 1-3 million people. I point out that Stalin and Mao killed about 100 million, and they were clearly atheistic. I once heard Bill Maher counter this by claiming, in perfect liberal circular reasoning, that their governments were really secular religions. But of course, he was twisting the meaning of secular religion to tie it to traditional religion, not to his progressive beliefs. So two avowed atheist mass murderers, who actively persecuted and executed religious citizens, can by extension be blamed on traditional religion. Two things lefties will blame every bad thing on, without support or reason, are religion and racism. All the while they are the most religious (progressivism) and racist people you will ever meet.
I think the Nazis should be included in this tally as well. I just finished reading about Dietrich Bonhoeffer and how the Nazis rapidly neutralized and eliminated the Church’s influence in Germany so it could move forward with its plans unopposed by religion.
#donthiredemocrats
We don’t all have the authority in the workplace that a surgeon does in the OR. My surg. tech. daughter just has to put up and shut up with leftist doctors and nurses. She was very excited the other day because she found a conservative, like-minded doc who she’s been assisting. She finds that more often among doctors than nurses, but still not enough.
I’m in a reasonably prestigious senior position, but even I would find it a tough battle to get someone banned from working with me for expressing an opinion I didn’t like.
Lmao! Doc you are my favorite! I’m reminded again why I look forward to what you’ve got say.
You could have titled this, Dealing with the mentally ill and it would work the same.
Now that you mentioned Peterson again, he does have a term that works very well by calling these types the ideologically possessed. A bit different than just an ideologue. Of course those types are well represented in Libertarianism and a lot of conservatives.
Progressivism is a totalitarian faith. Whether liberal, conservative or libertarian, they embrace the same transcendent universalism.
Animus possession?
The pigheaded neocons need to get added to this category. If anything they are even worse.
I take it when you say “frustrating” you mean “aggravating”.
I could have gone either way. I like “frustrating” because it suggests an obstruction to the normal flow of human relations. But, it is aggravating too.
Ha ha, yeah. Frustrating in practical terms, and personally annoying.
I don’t have a problem dealing with lefties. See I’m a rancher. That means I deal with cattle – that are slow, stubborn and stupid. I deal with horses that are devious, lazy, and skittish. I deal with my German Shepherds who are loyal, loving, and way smarter than any leftie I ever dealt with. So lots of training to deal with them. Though I do admit when they do piss me off I just turn to the dogs and command….Kill. Eat. Runs the leftie off all the time.