In Defense of Error

The other day, I followed a back and forth on Twitter between two smart people and one of them pointed out that the other had been wrong about the issue in the past. The details are not important as nothing serious ever gets discussed on Twitter, but what struck me is how even smart people can resort to this sort of score keeping. In the context of an internet exchange, it is about as sensible as claiming the other guy has cooties. It’s just a childish way of dismissing an argument or criticism without examining it.

It is a form of the fallacy of the undistributed middle. Someone could have a great record of being right about a topic, but those past predictions have little or even no connection to the current prediction. A gambler can get on a great roll at the craps table. It does not mean he’ll keep winning. This also means that the legendary loser at craps can win once in a while too. That’s the way it is with intellectual endeavors. You will get a lot wrong, but you can get a lot right too. Intellectual advancement is the story of trial and error.

Anyway, it got me thinking about something that turns up a lot on the dissident right. That is the quest to purify one’s past. It seems that a lot of people feel they should be ashamed of having been a libertarian or an unthinking conservative, who listened to Rush Limbaugh and voted Republican. Often you hear people talk about their journey to this side of the great divide as an awakening. It’s not a terrible way to frame it, as it certainly feels that way when you are going through it.

I know in my my case, I still remember when it dawned on me that the Bush people were serious about the spreading democracy stuff. From 2001 until 2005, I was quite confident that the democracy talk was mostly public relations. It was a way to troll the Left, by using their language as a justification for Afghanistan and Iraq. What was really going to happen is the CIA would find a friendly strong man to take over as an authoritarian. We’d install our guy and that would be that.

Even during the election with the purple finger stuff, I was quite confident it was just a show for domestic consumption. Then, it became clear they really thought they could turn Iraq into a European style democracy that would be an ally to Israel and help with the coming war with Iran. The scales fell from my eyes and I quickly moved from thinking the neocons were wrong to thinking they were crazy. Bill Kristol was just as deranged as the guys talking about the invisible imam and the end times.

Now, I take solace in knowing that I was not the only one to make this error. Tucker Carlson often talks about how he supported the war on terror and then realized it was going to be a catastrophe. John Derbyshire has written about his regret for having gone along with something he always sensed was a bad idea. Lots of smart and skeptical people were fooled by the Bush gang, so I don’t lose sleep over it. The neocons are very good at turning virtues into vices. It is their nature.

The thing is though, I’ve always thought the two best things to happen to our side are the Bush years and the Obama years. For men of my generation, the Bush year opened our eyes about the reality of the Buckley Right. Whatever the Buckley project was at the start, by the 1990’s it became a vehicle to undermine heritage America, every bit as toxic and dangerous as Progressivism. The Obama years created more race realists that an army of Charles Murrays and Steve Sailers.

The point is, mistakes have consequences, but they are often a necessary intermediate step in discovery. This is true of science and technology and it is true in the evolution of culture and society. The bungling of guys like Richard Spencer, which set off the aggressive campaign of censorship and de-platforming, has opened a lot of eyes, especially on our side, to the realities facing us. If the alt-right had been more prudent early on, the battle lines would not be so clear now.

A point I made on RamZPaul’s Christmas special was that the aggressive censorship and the fallout from it will make us better in the long run. James Edwards did not seem to like that point, but I am right about this. This is not a game you win by mastering the other side’s rules. There are no rules, just force. Our side will be better as we learn how to navigate around the searchlights, armed patrols and ideological enforcers. The path to victory is not in the appeal to their virtue, but the exploitation of their vices.

In a way, the dissident right is the result of error. Much of the skepticism that defines this side of the great divide is the result of having been wrong about a great many things, especially the integrity of the people in charge. Just as science and technology are the story of error, whatever comes next is going to be the result of many mistakes. It’s what an awakening is, when you think about it. It is that point when you realize you have been wrong about important things and begin to figure out the right answers.

110 thoughts on “In Defense of Error

  1. Z Man;

    ‘I’s OK to be white’ is excellent rhetoric for use on the ‘normies’ as it jars their emotions, creating cognitive discomfort for future use. I see your post as a parallel effort in that direction for those now ‘noticing’. Maybe something like ‘it’s OK to be a second order noticer/perceiver’ would be good rhetoric using better words

    What I mean is that it was (maybe) Machiavelli who said something like ‘first order minds can see situations clearly through all the chaff, flares and countermeasures put out by TPTB to disguise their actions and motivations. Second order minds can also see clearly once the situation is pointed out to them (by a first order mind) and third order minds benefit neither from observation or explanation, they just flow along with the tide.’

    Comprehensive first order minds are rare in any age and second order ones are not so common either. IMHO, being ‘red-pilled’ is when the built up cognitive discomfort caused by non-congruent observations is rectified, usually by having the light-bulb go on after somebody with a first order mind shows you the key insight(s) that enables you to reorganize your mental framework in ways that reframe your unfocused cognitive discomfort into a new (to you) and useful set of patterns.

    I fully affirm that I am more of a second order mind with an occasional flash of unprompted clarity. So I am naturally grateful to those such as yourself who often provide the key insights.

    Best wishes for a happy new year.

  2. I came here via the libertarian leaning Maggie’s Farm blog, which posted this video yesterday:,-by-7-year-old.html

    I see this video as something of a Rorschach test. To the civnat libertarians at Maggie’s Farm this video is an awe inspiring rendition of the national anthem. But once you swallow the red pill the video looks more like a eulogy for a long-dead nation than a celebration of patriotism.

    The kid is cute as a pin and she sings beautifully and with emotion, but she’s Asian. The Star Spangled Banner is *not* of her history. The chance that anyone in her family has died, much less made a significant sacrifice, for this country is near zero. This would be unremarkable, except the other kids are all dressed in Wells Fargo shirts, and virtually none of them are white. And the song is being sung at a soccer match, a decidedly non-American sport, for the LA Galaxy, which has a fan base that is almost entirely Hispanic.

    It’s almost like a scene from Idiocracy. Welcome to Hell, brought to you by Wells Fargo and the LA Galaxy.

      • Good, I agree now go home to Mother Russia. This is a Nordic not a Slavic country. You have no place here. See how easily how your own ethnic philosophy can be used against you?

    • It is possible for non-white immigrants to assimilate fully. But there are severe limitations. They must see their present and future as inextricably linked to the future of the majority population, and be willing to forsake their own ethnic past. If they have viable alternatives to doing so, they will not take the necessary steps to subjugate their identity to the majority identity. It is psychologically possible to appropriate the history and ancestry of the majority as one’s own.
      But today the centrifugal forces are too great, and the conditions that made this kind of assimilation possible no longer exist. Grade school teachers seamlessly moved from the hagiography of the “melting pot” to the wonders of multiculturalism.

      • The question that every minority I know asks is “If I forsake my identity and adopt a majoritarian view, will the majority reciprocate by treating me fairly?”. The answer to that is not a clear “YES” judging from the history of the country.

        Every immigrant group even the “white” ones such as Poles and Italians have been at the receiving end of severe ethnic and racial prejudice.That combined with aggressive tribalism inherent in Asians and Hispanics make for a very bad combination.

        The best outcome was for the US to remain close to 100% Nordic but that ship sailed in 1840.

    • Sure, and what sacrifices did your family make, Kemosabe?

      Most white families have made ZERO sacrifices for the country since the end of ‘Nam. A pitiful 2% of white America serves and dies in the military. And BTW, unless you are of English and Scots-Irish descent, the star spangled banner is not of your history either.

      And ROFL about soccer, sure those fine guys kneeling for the anthem be Amurrican but not some girl who sings the anthem with pride and emotion. Colin Kaepernick and LeBron James are as American as Apple pie.

  3. I prefer “In Defense of ‘Repentance/Redemption’”. Perhaps One’s personal acknowledgement of “errors” is the precursor to the aforementioned, but only a continuing “limbo” until . . . PERSONALLY “resolved” thru each and every very special/unique One’s DYNAMIC, DAILY “pursuit” of One’s individual path to One’s personal SALVATION as restored/ “justified” by the Redemption. What JC “did/accomplished/finalized” is DONE. The on-going “legacy” of said is being daily REaffirmed in the PEACEFUL deeds/ “demonstrations” of said special/unique One’s CHOOSing NOT to be a “ZERO” and thereby remaining “One of the Manifest[ed]”.
    So, this being the eve of another, what will most likely be an even more “tumultuous” year, 2019; I wish to take this opportunity to re-emphasize the increasing importance for said “Ones” to put some serious physical distance between that portion of “citYzens” and “coasters” CHOOSING to remain UN-repentant/washed/prepared – the “zeros” most prone to become desperate zombies resorting to consuming each other or come busting down One’s door if/when “critical mass” is reached. More specifically, get inland, rural, “GATHERed/GUNned/GARDENed” and . . . S-I-M-P-L-I-F-I-E-D – preferably on a portion of arable county dirt that is UNencumbered and UN[gov]addressed. I suspect it was the “will” of the almighty “Author” in the Beginning that the “Remnants GATHER”. The “Blessings from the Beginning” are revealed and thereby accessible to the faithfully repentING/REDEEMed/GATHERing RemnantS, reveling in daily fellowship of collaborative PRODUCTIVE enterprise and the opportunity to assist/gather other repentING in greatER need – RE: the second greatest Commandment. And as such . . . relieved, humbled and thankful for sight of One’s salvation BEFORE having – unknowingly – “run out One’s clock”. “Where two more gather . . .”, who/what “resides”? Stand TOGETHER or . . . “swing/get SWAT-teamed” A-L-O-N-E – military strategy 101. Power in numbers – especially to those Ones pursuing honorable conduct by righteous intent, while . . . “packing heat”. The ball remains in each One’s “Court” who diligently and meticulously maintains said “Court” by said honorable conduct. The “CHI” of/to said conduct: Charity/Humility/Integrity. Carry on, fellow Repentants maintaining [good] “standing”! Hoo-rah.
    To all others, I humbly entreat you to seriously re-assess your current condition AND situation. Failing that, you may be in store for a very “rude reality check” – if [still] in such an “apostate condition” – by “showing up” at “this digs” or similar others Tick-tock.

  4. Have to admit getting fooled by Dubya, despite the “little voice” in my head, the legacy of the clear eyed Realpolitik types that taught me in school. But having a few dozen friends, colleagues and neighbors vaporized in a morning will cloud one’s thinking. And while raised on Buckley missed the shift, once the Soviet Union fell and we emerged back into a multilateral power structure. But the real positive from the last few years is that so much of the agenda of the Left has come into sharp relief, masks dropped and claws visible. Even here, well behind enemy lines, seeing the benefits of people starting to realize they are not a thing to be negotiated or reasoned with. Kavanaugh was big around here. Lot of centrist women asking “wait a fucking minute that could easily be my son” Meanwhile the shrieking Progressive harpies here were all screaming for blood. Any male blood.

  5. The journey you describe is (or should be) more properly described as a gauntlet. Those that survive to reach the other side are more likely to be robust and uniquely able to weather future storms of uncertainty, hardship, and threat. The weak and stupid are supposed to perish and the smart and strong are supposed to prevail. Otherwise, evolution’s path leads to degeneracy and extinction.

  6. Z Man, I just sent an email related to this subject to Derb. In short, do folks on our side limit our appeal by clinging to the “Right” label? The Buckley right was 1) religious conservatives, 2) economic libertarians and 3) Cold Warriors. The economic libertarians brought us the so-called “free trade agreements” (e.g., NAFTA — 900+ pages), outsourcing, and the addiction to cheap foreign labor. The Cold Warriors quickly moved on from anti-Communism to the never ending war on Islam and the “Democracy for All” crusade. The religious right, who I tend to sympathize with on many issues, also tends to alienate many who otherwise would be our allies. And…the worst of the worst, the neocons, are poster children for “invade the world invite the world.” Rather than “Dissident Right” should we take up the label “Dissident Nationalist” and then put off the arguments about these other issues until after our glorious victory over our common enemies? Just a thought…

  7. Motive on the part of the neocons was purely self-interested. That essentially all of the elite fell in with them says all one needs to know about the number of gentiles left in the US elite who dare cross Zionists. Bush senior likely had the last row, accidental though it was, with the lobby. No telling when the last true rival to diaspora power made it into national prominence.

    • Isaac, with all due respect, how do you get away with speaking so truthfully? I like you buddy, don’t endanger yourself…

  8. If the bulk of your info comes from main stream media how could any of us have known? Until fox news. Loved it !

    Bought their books, cheered them on and then came 2016. Suddenly most became Never Trump Loons.

    Now it’s easy to see. The left has infiltrated everything and their playing for keeps. Someone mentioned a kind of ” mission statement ” and think it’s a good idea.

    Let people know what we stand for. Asage any fears of being “bad whites”. Just fellow americans looking out for one another 😉

  9. This is an excellent piece. The bit about “exploiting their vices” is key. I hope people take note of it and start working on ways to make this a reality.

  10. What seems to have happened is a slow erosion where it was hard to recognize where or when our country was betrayed. There was the 1900 immigration, where they assimilated or went back. Even by 1986, we assumed the amnesty grantees would assimilate and we would get border security. Trump’s wall dates to Reagan – like the tax cuts traded for spending cuts.

    It would be like having a friday night card game for years, but suddenly two players you knew started cheating.

    It has sunk so far everyone has to rewind and go on a quest to discover the truth. That usually starts with the mainstream conservatism (where you see the Buckleyite and neoCon isn’t it), then to the idealistic, philosophical, theoretical, and individualistic libertarianism, then eventually to what is now still a bit nebulous as the alt-right.

    Prosperty depends on regular (as in regulated – property rights and extortion are regulations too) free markets. That depends on individual freedom. But what the libertarians have trouble dealing with is you can’t just write rules or create legal machinery outside of cultures that will accept it (what, an AI zap band if you violate teh NAP?).

    Trump Voters in general, and the alt-right in particular have noticed you need a culture, and as Breitbart noted (maybe call it Breitbart’s law) Politics is downstream from Culture. Right now there is debate on how much race/ethnicity, good philosophy and ideas, religion, morals, or civic virtus are required in the mix.

    The second key is the return of “If we don’t hang together, we will all hang separately”. Our enemy doesn’t care, they will deplatform, dox, disemploy, or destroy you regardless if you have swastikas or just as a few hard questions like Tucker Carlsom, or whatever Sargon of Akkad did. The rules have changed, assuming there are still rules.

    • We used to expect immigrants to assimilate into American society. Now we are supposed to import savages and assimilate to their society.

  11. Your basis philosophical point is well known but always in need of pointing to – it’s the impermanence of all things, the constant change, the only thing that does not change is that everything will change.

    That’s why you reach an age where you see the destination is always getting further away, and you have the realization that it is not the destination that is the goal, it is the journey. Play your hand well with what you understand, take your stand with decency and honor, and be ready to sacrifice even life for an idea or a people.

    • Seeing where this is going is difficult to accept, but necessary. Being face to face with people who hate what I stand for, over the holidays, has both made things clearer for me, and has further radicalized me. To top it off, they like to spout, “I wish people were more tolerant and could get along better”. Really? Liars.

  12. The white middle class Californians who are fleeing that state are probably stumbling out with “their faces sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought.”

    • I hope you are right. Someone I am close to is fleeing Portland, OR, which her politics helped destroy, to a mid-sized town in WA. Once there, she will be an activist for the same policies the effects of which she is now fleeing. If only stupidity was painful.

      • California liberals still blame all of that state’s problems on Republicans. It’s been a one-party state for decades, and yet they still manage to get away with that. I’m not sure that an utter and complete collapse would change their minds.

      • In the past twenty years Southern New Hampshire got destroyed by the same kind of bozos invading from Boston, MA.

      • When we were poorer stupidity used to be fatal. We might be blessed with those circumstances again in the near future.

  13. To some extent, you are mixing up the “they”s. The Uniparty model is OK for domestic politics, but when it comes to foreign policy you want to look at the Red Empire/Blue Empire model. If the Red Empire (mainly the Military-Industrial Complex) had its way, we absolutely would have installed a dictator. However, because the permanent bureaucracy has way more power than the nominal government, the Blue Empire (especially State) always gets its turn at bat.

    The invasions and occupations were Red; the “democratization” and expansive refugee programs were Blue. This is just the sort of thing that happens in an empire divided by internal conflict, particularly one so sharply-divided as America.

    If we didn’t have democracy here at home, it probably would have been “install a friendly strongman” with e.g. Iraq or Libya. If you look at Trump, for example, he clearly prefers dealing with dictatorial figures like Putin and Xi Jinping and even the Kims; they’re somewhat predictable and have the authority to make important decisions in any negotiation.

    Of course we have to acknowledge the reality that we *do* have democracy and a permanent Blue-dominated bureaucracy here, which means any form of foreign policy that needs to be conducted at large scale is almost certainly going to be corrupted beyond recognition, and is therefore very dangerous to attempt even when Republicans are nominally in charge.

    We might even see a repeat of this with Trump’s trade negotiations. I have no doubt that he’s doing a great job talking to foreign leaders and lining up deals; but eventually this must yield some kind of written trade compact, and that means involving the legislature, the bureaucracy, or both. Trump’s ostensible successes on trade could then be muddied by poison pills like the one crowning LGBT “rights” that they tried to insert into the NAFTA renegotiation – still not sure what actually happened with that.

    Every instance in which one fails can in theory be described as an error, but in many cases there is no path to success, only failure of a different degree or character. All of the talking we do, all of the “recommendations” we make – we have to understand that as long as we have the system that we have, virtually anything that we try to make that system do is going to look like a mistake in hindsight. We have to be very careful about our evaluation criteria, what we think “success” really looks like, and be honest regarding the things we know will probably go wrong and the unintended side-effects they’re likely to produce. That’s the only way to act rationally in this fallen empire.

    • Lance;

      An excellent and original exposition. Certainly, *one* of Bush II’s errors was not recognizing this reality, IMHO. Supposing the aptly named internal Blue Empire was actually on his side because of his veiled membership in the Globo-Uniparty was, in retrospect, the height of folly. But now we can see the truth.

      Trump appears to get it at some level. I hope he’s thought long and hard about workarounds. One hopeful sign is that the leaked complaints about his management style center around not listening to ‘his’ ‘experts’. Ms Conventional Wisdom, Peggy Noonan’s wistful trolling for credible leakers in this weekends WSJ is another.

    • Lance, we also need to keep in mind that once Trump is gone, whenever or however it comes to pass, expect a “slash and burn” of anything and everything he has stood for. The military will be wearing high heels, the energy companies will be banned, and small business will be all jammed up. The border wall will be physically destroyed, piece by frikkin’ piece, with the fragments put in museums next to the pieces of the Berlin Wall. Guns will be banned, and the door-to-doors will commence. Rush will be taken off the air, and sites like this one will be taken down. Old movies and a lot of books are going to be disappeared. The mask is off, and things will go all-out. The very idea of our having little conversations, like this one, will be viewed as treasonous, and openly labeled as such. Stasi and reporting your neighbors, here we come. And the normies will be too stupid and historically unaware to what all of this even means.

      The only paths will be overt acquiescence, along with some sort of intellectual Underground Railroad, and open rebellion, Molon Labe style. Is there a third choice, other than getting out of town and laying low, which is a variation of choice one?

  14. “This is not a game you win by mastering the other side’s rules. There are no rules, just force.”
    So true! The early seeds of this reality were planted with Roe vs. Wade, which was a pure exercise in raw political power. Whatever your view of abortion, to pretend the constitution addresses this issue one way or the other is ludicrous. Today, both parties will flip on an issue 180 degrees in one second, depending on how it effects their power.

  15. I’m glad you expressed some sympathy for Spencer. Until Cville, public demonstrations were a reasonable idea to explore. We didn’t know of the treachery of the police and the courts. Now it is there for all to see.

    One thing we have learned, as you say, is, “There are no rules, just force.”

    • The specific idea for the Cville torch march came from an Estonian nationalist movement, a movement that is tolerated in its own country because of its anti-Russian platform. In contrast to post-facto claims it was inspired by the Klan, this part of the demonstration had not been predicted by the left.
      Experience in Western Europe should have clued anyone in that the establishment would not allow the march to take place without violence. There was also a larger participation of blacks for the left in Virginia, an element absent in the Milo riot at Berkeley.

      • I would say if the Charlottesville march was limited to just the surprise torch rally, it would have been a huge hit. The mistake was holding and attending the next day rally.

    • The important thing in judging Spencer is to know he has choices. He had much better options than most of us and he could be teaching coeds at a private college right now. That’s a nice life. Instead, he is in this thing. Whatever flaws or errors you want to assign to him, you have to balance it against the truth of his situation. It’s not easy being him. I’m not a fan boy, but I think you have to be fair to the guy.

      • Good point about Spencer. And regarding Charlottesville, it’s usually referred to as an obvious mistake. I have to admit that at the time, I had no idea that what happened would happen. Maybe a lot of wiser folks than myself saw it coming, but they must have kept it to themselves, because I didn’t hear them.

        • The initial expectation is that Alt-Lite figures would also make speeches, and supposedly Pax Dickinson was expected to appear. That was in the name “Unite the Right” after the Heilgate fallout.

          Everyone knows who Richard Spencer is, but how many heard the name Wes Bellamy.

        • Despite the Monday morning quarterbacking, nobody at the time believed that the police and the government would assist antifa like they did. The alt right at the time was still naive enough to assume that the police and city would do their job, even if it was the absolute bare minimum. Most in the alt right at the time were conservative and had trust and faith in institutions like the police. Not anymore.

          • To support your point about the attitudes towards the police of the people at Cville, some chanted “Blue Lives Matter” at the beginning of the day before things went bad. We got an education.

      • I give him an A for courage and C for intelligence. However, someone who is much more intelligent, Greg Johnson, is starting to irritate the hell out of me because he reverses those grades, and ultimately nothing can be accomplished of lasting import without courage.

  16. “This is not a game you win by mastering the other side’s rules. There are no rules, just force.”

    This is something that I believe the Dissident Right is still figuring out. It seems that many prominent members still believe that if we just show normie whites and Jews the facts and logic, they’ll change their minds and we’ll be able to pull ourselves out of this.

    They continue to act like we’re in a college debate when it’s obvious that we’re in a bar fight. The other side doesn’t care about your arguments. They want to punch you in the face.

    • For all the talk and admiration of those old paleos, that’s one thing they didn’t talk much about, that our foes play by different rules. There’s a rapidly growing realization that we can’t rely on logic and facts. We all need to spread that message far and wide to our conserva-normie friends.

  17. I always believed the Bush admin for its fervor for Mid East democracy. They pushed it hard, with major “Churchillian” speeches. In our age of 24 hour media focus, he wouldn’t have been permitted to then unabashedly install a puppet dictator in plain sight. This should’ve been obvious to everyone, except cynical ideologues who are great on big picture theory, but are empirically and perceptually limited.

    • Karzai was a dictator, but he was a puppet of Iran, Pakistan or whomever was the highest bidder that day.

      The plan was to use Chalabi in the same fashion, but he had no constituency in Iraq. The reluctance to co-opt Baathists was also a major problem. There was a claim, made after the man had fallen into a coma, that PM Sharon of Israel told Bush that Arabs wouldn’t accept democracy and it would be a long war of occupation. I tend to doubt it as a self-serving claim for a domestic Israeli audience to make Netanyahu look foolish in comparison. At the time Bibi was out of power and made grandiose claims to Congress.

    • Actually, things blow by so fast anymore it would have worked. Let’s say we installed our guy, made sure our European allies got a piece of the oil lucre, and made sure the country was reasonably stable, it would have blown over. Within a year, only a small number of Lefties would have cared. The Left might mention it, but it would simply be a rote statement necessary to move on to what they want to talk about.

  18. My problem is I’ve figured out I was wrong but have no right answers. I’ve become a fucking moron trapped in an ideological warp between what I know is true and what every person, institution and organization in my life said was true.

    I kinda joined this rag-tag group at Zman because I don’t know my ass from a hole in the ground anymore and at 67 that’s not a good place to be. I’ve fought, bled and killed for my country in Nam. I built businesses all my professional life and employed a couple thousand people. I’ve paid to educate a couple smart kids I met along the way, helped a couple open their own businesses and paid for operations that good folks couldn’t afford. I paid my taxes and fought with the regulators to make progress when they stood in front of me and said stop!

    And now I’m an old white, Christian, straight man and I’m the problem with America. I have become obsolete.

    • A high percentage of those kids you “helped” may have been racist. Have you ever considered that?

    • Hoagie, you are my doppelgänger. And I suppose that means we are both obsolete. But how much do we need to whip ourselves in atonement? We were both lied to. We both did what the script said and were successful at it beyond our dreams or at least for me, beyond what I deserved.

  19. Libertarians were the original dissident right, trying to tell conservatives and leftists that they were building their own prisons.

  20. I agree that you can’t hold every little error against someone, nobody is an Oracle, but for something the magnitude and importance of Iraq or the neocon wars in general is different. Also, a young person whose worldview is still forming could be mistaken—like myself. It was a key moment of catastrophic import. Talking heads and political officers who supported Iraq can never be fully trusted because how can we know, when the chips are down that they will not stand with Sauron again, behaving like the mind weaponized Shia, who blend in with the Sunnis until key moments of transition? And greater honor to those who opposed it from the beginning, and the first dessert storm. Magnitude and consequence are the point. Expiation is possible but difficult.

    That said yes, Iraq was useful in showing that there are indeed factions that do not have our greater good at heart. And giving us evidence to prove it, but none of this will matter I bet. When the chips are down, everything will happen just the same again. It’s analogous to your foot falling off and saying, well that proves we have diabetes, lol! I suppose so, but why did we need diabetes in the first place. Scientific progress is upward and always good in principle.

  21. “I know in my my case, I still remember when it dawned on me that the Bush people were serious about the spreading democracy stuff.”

    I don’t think people should be too upset with themselves because they had different perceptions of the situation in the past. As you mentioned, a lot of much more serious people with much more to lose also got swept up in the situation. I mean, think about a guy like Hosni Mubarak. There’s no way he though in his wildest dreams that we were really serious about what we were saying about democracy and the Middle East. Even up to the point we threw him overboard (basically because Obama though he wasn’t authentic enough) he probably still couldn’t believe his eyes about what was going on – people running a superpower getting high on their own propaganda product.

    “What was really going to happen is the CIA would find a friendly strong man to take over as an authoritarian. We’d install our guy and that would be that.”

    I honestly had this in mind too; basically we’d install someone friendly to us and who had enough self restraint (i.e. wouldn’t let his sons run around killing and raping anything not tied down to the floor) so nobody in the serious countries would feel awkward about standing next to him in a photo op. If you’d told me we’d go to war and not only not get a friendly government out of it but no oil either, I’d have thought you were crazy.

    “Then, it became clear they really thought they could turn Iraq into a European style democracy that would be an ally to Israel and help with the coming war with Iran.”

    I thought that the idea of going to war was to create an anchor state in the area for us. In the Levant, we have Israel and Egypt while in the Persian Gulf we used to have Iran until Jimmy Carter decided to toss the Shah overboard. The only reason to keep a unified Iraq at all was only if we were trying to have some sort of a powerful balancing state in the area. If the idea was to push some sort of democracy and some Israel friendly states, the first thing to do would have been to break Iraq up, something that the entire Bush administration was completely opposed to.

    • I remember the exact moment I realized I had made a mistake with GWB – I vividly recall listening to his 2nd inaugural address with all its Wilsonian messianic rhetoric and exclaiming “he really believes this!” Until then I thought all the idealism was just a cover for an exercise in pure power politics. But just like in 2000, I remained blinded by Team Red/Team Blue. I loathed (still do) the Democrat party so I just assumed that anything the GOP did must be good. By 2008 I was moving away from that view – my vote for McCain was not a bit uncomfortable. The last vestiges of conventional politics largely evaporated after I watched the GOP nominate feckless Romney and repeatedly cave to Obama. Just as others mentioned, i suffered a brief bout of libertarianism in an attempt to square the circle between failed Bush conservatism and the increasingly toxic cultural marxists. Gay marriage killed off that brief delusional interlude – the libertarian answer was to get the state out of marriage, which was just principled surrender.

      Anyway, as someone mentioned, thank God for Trump and the service he’s provided.

    • I use to start some meetings with the phrase: “Anything worth doing is worth doing wrong.” Everyone would remain/become quiet. It was meant as a jumping off point to discuss the need to reduce endless committee discussion—usually designed to avoid responsibility and risk. In short, the order of the day was to move forward and solve problems and accept the risk/consequences of being wrong. Those unwilling needed to be somewhere else.

  22. I was right on 9-12- 2001 and I still am. Send the Air Force. And very publicly fire the failed leadership of the entities that failed to stop the attack.

    • Bob, sounds about right. No heads rolled and the organizations involved got more staffing, greater funding, and even more authority. What’s wrong with this picture?

      • Polling data usually indicates that Islam is the most unpopular religion in the United States, but this has never led the political class to slash immigration from their countries. Part of the reason is that Anti-Islam sentiment is concentrated in white evangelicals, and the establishment loves pissing on them. Anti-Islamic movements led by Sikhs and Hindus would have far more efficacy than the movements led by Zionists with the support of Evangelicals. The contrarian view is that if Evangelicals started praising Islam, we actually might see immigration slashed.

        • Anti-Immigration sentiment increases after a terrorist attack, but leads to nothing other than an increased security state. Steve Sailer has written many posts about the “backlash”. US conservatives and Euro nationalists are guilty of “chasing the stick” as the proprietor put it. “Not All Muslims” is a low-IQ and effective argument that happens to be true. Fearmongering about terrorism only sees the security state grow. The best reaction to a terror attack is silence.

          • The hilarious thing about bringing in all the Muslims is that the people supporting it are just fine with it, as long as the new guys don’t live in their neighborhood and take their jobs. The imports are some sort of pets that live in a far-off zoo. Maybe we all need to put loudspeakers up in the middle class neighborhoods we live in, and blast out Muslim calls to worship five times a day. Freedom of religion and all.

          • The problem with the attitude that you describe Dutch is common across the board in a myriad of social ills. Folks just don’t connect the dots and perceive the big picture as to how Muslims or other third world immigration affects them in their little slice of the “world”. Not a discussion goes on for 10 minutes or longer where I don’t need to digress to draw the point as to how the current discussion is not simply academic, but affects those in the room—sometimes directly, but always indirectly.

          • Somalis and other invaders are ethereal to many white liberals, elsewise they are pets, restaurants, etc. What is not ethereal to white liberals are their conservative relatives. White liberals have primal fears that the Handmaiden’s Tale will come to life, and non-whites will be expelled. Terrorism also doesn’t kill anywhere near enough people to disrupt daily life to the extent of the Second Intifada. Trump in the White House does disrupt the daily lives of liberals.

  23. Right on, Z-man. 20 year card carrying Libertarian here, no apologies, just a regret for being so naive for so long. Bush did indeed open my eyes with his silly (and plain ideological) ideas wrt universal democracy, equality, and civnat insanity. By the time Obama rolled around, I was wary—but still hopeful—that we might have turned the corner on the great question of our racial divide. Instead another illusion was lifted and the threat of the Left became obvious, if not ominous. And so here I post today. 😉

    Christmas family get together was interesting however. There is a lot of work to be done and a delicate balance to be considered. For the older crowd, the message must be tailored. I am heartened by my brother-in-law’s voluntary soliloquy on his perception of the general loss of freedom in the US since his childhood. He’s starting to get it. My son lectured me on taking care of the needy and universal health care and the like. I returned with concepts of “moral hazard” and examples of “rationed” care under most socialized medicine implementations.

    Group differences equating to differential outcomes is a bit easier to discuss. The family works in high level tech/med industries and interacts with those who don’t or are not able to master their fields or for that matter, themselves. The offspring don’t have the basis to understand why, but they do have the intelligence to form associations as to similarities among such folk they interact with. I simply explain that there is a scientific basis to account for such observation. Names and research follow from there.

    Have I changed a mind? Not initially, but I have placed an alternative on the table for consideration and they’ll never see the world in the same way again—one can not unring the bell.

    • For the cost of the wars since 2010, we could have paid for a “public option” for health insurance, and funded the training of more doctors in medical school to obviate the need to import South Asians.

      The true cost of lolbertarianism was its ascendency during the recession as a fusion with populist anger at Wall St. Conservatives were tripping over themselves to praise the Silicon Valley types for being “entrepreneurial” and resisting regulation. Now we are stuck with hostile monopolies.

      The stock acquired in the banks by TARP would have returned hundreds of billions in dividends had it not been sold to appease lolbertarian Tea Party anger at “nationalized banks”. And if we still owned that stock, Jaime Dimon wouldn’t be able to annihilate the 2nd Amendment.

  24. Bravo. This is probably going to be a shooting war before it ends too. I tell everyone – AR15’s for the family, at least 4 high cap mags each – and stock up on ammo.

    But you are still making mistakes yourself, Z. This may be picking the fly chit out of the pepper, but you keep forgetting that the world is not run by the US, and that other players are on the board too. And you seem to forget their virtues and vices make the average Jewish globalist multibillionaire look like a saint. They are the reason the third world is the chit hole it is, not America.

    Do you think there are no dissidents in the middle east, Z? Have you ever asked yourself what would have happened if Bush The Elder let Saddam slide when he invaded Kuwait? Nobody ever said what was on those endless convoys of Iraqi trucks that drove past the UN inspectors without getting checked. There IS a morality to be had for having ‘our guy’ in charge of that cit show – and others round the globe. You seem to think that taking your ball and going home is the only possible answer to foreign entanglement.

    Where is the morality in doing that with South Africa, for example? We are about to find out – I believe that your mindset will be applied there, and that we will lose all our legitimate business ventures in the nation, that all the whites are going to get slaughtered along with even more blacks – and when the smoke clears, China is going to move in and clean up what’s left.

    This is also a continuing flaw of the Dissident Right. We have no real plans beyond Leftie. What are we going to do about our external enemies? How are we going to deal with our real friends and allies? We have to have a direction that goes beyond sticking a bayonet in Leftie’s gizzard and hanging his corpse from a lamp post. (That’s assuming he doesn’t cut his own throat first, which is entirely possible given their antics lately).

    For the dissident right to succeed it and grow it has to grow up and have a plan for the future. For some reason we seem to bog down on issues like that and don’t want to think further ahead.

    • Glen, funny you should mention AR’s. Guess what was given out to family members this Christmas. 😉 Of course, this is a gun friendly state—just about everyone (non-Lefty) has one. Sort of like in Yemen where every male gets an AK as a right of passage.

    • Glen, have you seen or thought about a statement of principles (dare I say manifesto) to express our side? Like in 100 words or less? I’ve been trying to get people I know to dip their toe in the river in the hope they may someday cross over to our side, but get tangled up in trying to express “our thing” as eloquently as Z and others. I either say too much or too little and come off as a nut or worse. In that regard, I would like to offer some vision of what comes after Lefty beyond just saying a general return to sanity (although that’s pretty accurate). Thoughts, anybody?

  25. Alinsky’s tactics work, but then we get into the argument about reasoned discourse, parliamentary rules, not stooping to the level of the demented left, etc. Right now, I am willing suspend earlier thinking completely, and support Trump without reservation, after all what’s our other option?

    • Yup, the “reasoned discourse” is out, and “don’t stoop to the level”. While the deep state, behind the scenes, is deadly serious and pretty good at moving the ball along, the antics of the Proggy left are really ridiculous. Having endured MSNBC in my house during the holidays (The lack of self-awareness here is amazing. I would never in a million years go to someone’s house and turn on Rush), I realized that the level of discourse is about seventh grade. It consists of media types vying with each other to come up with the most odious Trump stuff they can conjure. No news, all speculation about this and that, laced with name calling. It’s all Mean Girls and Soy Boy gnashing of teeth. Someday, people are going to look at videos of this stuff and be astonished at what they see. The stupidity is mind boggling. Yet, that is our enemy.

      I have taken the holiday gatherings approach of “I know a lot of things that you are incapable of understanding, and I am not about to share any of it with you. You are not worthy of my time and effort to explain things to you”. The other one is “Do you really watch this stuff? It rots your brain, and makes you incapable of reasoned thought”. I have become this vaguely menacing, mysterious guy in the room.

  26. I think that a lot of our guys went to libertarianism first because they (correctly) sensed that there was a lot wrong with leftism, but they couldn’t renounce the Sin of Sins of the establishment worldview: racial awareness (or race realism, racial solidarity, whatever you want to call it.)

    That sense of the Sin of Sins has been so thoroughly instilled/brainwashed/bluepilled that a lot of people simply can’t de-program it; indeed, for some it seems so obvious that they mistake it for a feature of reality itself. That’s why they’re stuck with the pathetic DR3 business. People will tie themselves in knots to prove, even to themselves, that they’re not thinking racially. And look at real-world cases, like the awful business with the Tibbets family.

    I think the internet helps a lot of guys take that last step in de-programming. When I was a high school student, for example, the hottest anti-left “dissident” literature you could get your hands on was Ayn Rand. AKA, color-blind libertarian Alisa Rosenbaum. But once I found other stuff on the internet, I red-pilled fast. Nowadays redpills are as easy to get as porn.

    • I was living in New England during the 80’s and 90’s. Libertarianism was a safe way to not be liberal, without getting lumped into Evangelicals. That way, when the harpy tried to lecture you about her uterus at a party, you could just give her the hand and say “I don’t care about that. I’m a libertarian.” I suspect a lot of people moved from conservative to libertarian in the Bush years in order to be against the war on terror, without sounding like a lunatic.

      • I’ve always seen the use of “libertarian” as a shield against being lumped in with evangelicals. Support of Ron Paul was rare in my high school peer group, upper-middle class. I can only think of maybe five people from those years. Anti-war activity basically ceased after the election of Obama and his Iraq pullout in 2011. Of course, libertarianism doesn’t perform well in decaying Rust Belt metros, its base has always been rural Westerners.

        • Yep. I was living in DC in the 1990s. I was conservative but not religious. Although I agreed with much of libertarianism dogma, calling myself a libertarian was as much as about letting my “moderate” and liberal friends and co-workers know that I wasn’t a Christian Conservative as it was about my belief in free markets.

          Libertarianism is often a refuge for non-religious conservatives, at least, until they figure out that libertarianism is the coward’s way out.

        • I met Ron Paul in 1982 and have been aware of his politics since I was a young Reaganite. Ron Paul’s fault was in speaking badly of America while assuming that the America Firsters of that era had the background to understand that it was really his opposition to the post war one-world-ism that American elites were leading. Most Americans just do not understand the issue of Globalism and the role of America in leading this parade until very recently.

      • Libertarianism is found in Silicon Valley still for that reason. You can be against big government but are finished if you come out against any of the cultural jihad du jour. Even someone as powerful as Peter Thiel had to leave for being a thought criminal

    • I can remember, a long time ago, how good it felt to be against affirmative action, quotas, special treatment of minorities, etc, because I was against discrimination. I was proud to be more anti-racist than the liberals, who who were in favor of discriminating against Asians, for instance in college admissions, etc. Being color-blind was the purest way to be anti-discrimination and anti-racist, which of course was the highest ideal.

      Now, I don’t give a shit about racism and cringe when I see Dinesh D’Souza, Charlie Kirk, and Tomi Lauren out there preaching color-blindness and DR3. You can see how these types stand tall and proud and are so sure that their position is the morally superior one.

      The only thing that can change their minds are the rapidly changing demographics and the increasing hatred of whitey, along with the growing number of race realists out there red-pilling folks like crazy.

    • With the election of Dubya, I knew what was coming and just needed a safe harbor. I drifted over to the Ron Paul crowd out of desperation. I wanted to see things in libertarianism that simply were not there. It took years for me to understand these guys were just another flavor of liberalism.

    • I went libertarian first because so many “conservatives” turned out to be full of shit. The libertarians of the time really did believe in freedom and small government – not just slogans about them for the rubes.

  27. I like the Chinese saying about crossing the river by feeling the rocks under your feet. You try out different footholds until you find the ones that work and advance you toward your goal. Life is not waltzing across a series of bridges.

    As far as the Buckley right going wrong, I think it was when they used the Cold War to react to Communism and make a god out of capitalism, which facilitated the entry of libertarians into the leadership of the conservative movement, displacing the Southern Agrarians and traditionalists to the margins, and eventually out altogether. All, of course, facilitated by the war mongering, opportunistic neocons.

    Life is not just about economic systems. And as we are seeing, economic systems are simply tools, not societal saviors. You can watch your country go to ruin on the best TV ever made by the most efficient, productive factory on the planet. That doesn’t change the facts on the ground one iota.

    • Yeah, us anti-Communists were willing to take on almost anyone as an ally, as long as they opposed the Commies. This was understandable, and perhaps even necessary at the time, but it pretty much poisoned the “Movement” as anything but an opposition to the Soviets. Buckley and his people needed to fold their tents and go home after 1991, making way for a new kind of conservatism that would address the actual challenges facing the country. This didn’t happen, so we now have the spectacle of these guys trying to re-start a conflict that they won over a quarter-century ago, just so they can relive the glory days, and of course keep the checks coming. Lots of these guys are more Cold War re-enactors than they are anything else.

  28. Even though a lot of conservatives got it wrong when we went into Iraq, a few were right in opposing the war, such as Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis, Thomas Fleming (Chronicles), Ron Paul, and a few others. I also remember their horror at the new Patriot Act, and what it would mean for ordinary citizens.

    • The strange thing about the Bush years is how everyone was so wrong. The Left’s opposition to the wars never made much sense. it was mostly just LARP’ing. The rallies and parades were so silly it made Bush seem sensible. The paleos succumbed to a lot of conspiracy mongering that made them sound nutty. The Ron Paul people came off as un-American by blaming US foreign police for 9/11.

      For normal Americans, figuring out the right answer from all that was impossible.

      • Most people on the left were not expecting a long war, they were expecting a repeat of 1991 that would see ExxonMobil and friends take control of Iraqi oil reserves in a neo-imperialist plot. When the time came to award the contracts, Iraq gave them to Russian and Chinese state-owned oil companies. Nary a peep about that here, even from neocons. The Russians even got the *arms* contracts for Iraq.

      • Bush came across to most conservatives as a tough sheriff, determined to avenge 9-11 and the evil Saddam. Yet a few of us saw Bush as a PC pussy when he gave his “Islam is a religion of peace” speech and refused to shut the door on Muslim immigration.

        • How about Bush’s seeming relentless inability to defend himself, his administration, and by extension, us (his supporters), despite a perpetual onslaught from what we perceived to be “the other side”.

          And then, after his Presidency, he sits on his hands for eight long years, uttering not a single peep of protest while Obama dismantles the Constitution, the Rule of Law, the traditional family, race relations, International relationships, the entire U.S. health care system, and on and on…

          But it was truly only until Donald Trump humiliated his feckless baby brother, his worthless administration, his unwarranted and totally disastrous wars, even his worthless father and grandfather, that far too many of us finally saw (and fully understood) the true breadth and scope of the Bush New World Order duplicity, the galling (and formerly incomprehensible) love for all things Clinton, and their patrician hatred for we Normals.

          No question about it. We was played.

          In a major red-pilling sweep, it dawns on us that the reason he never stood up for himself is that he agreed with the “other side” the whole time. He knew better than anyone that they were simply running the long con, playing the clock out until the old system was so hallowed out that the keys to the USA could be officially handed over to their Davos pals.

          Thank God for Donald Trump. What a service he’s provided.

          • Very well said. Another reason Bush never stood up for himself and conservatives was his preening belief that, as a Christian, he should turn the other cheek. That’s great in his personal life, but we hired him to do a job, a lot of which was battling the left, not interjecting his personal religious beliefs into his work duties.

          • Someone recently brought up WMD’s in Iraq and that’s why we needed to invade. I asked when they were found and when was the WH news conference touting the news? Silence except for finding some left over gas shells which had been buried since the first Gulf War.

      • Most Paleos were right more often than wrong. Nutty, no. A few maybe but grumpy moreso.
        Maybe not a good position to take publicly but 911 was blowback from some of the US government actions, alliances and policies.

        • Forgotten by the right, but certainly not by the left, was Falwell/Robertson saying a few days after 9/11 that the US deserved it for being degenerate. Neither man blamed Israel, but if they had the history of this century would have been far different. Instead both reverted to form after this rare form of lucidity in their otherwise grifting lives.

        • I don’t know. I recall a lot of kooky conspiracies about Saddam’s weapons. Scott Ritter still turns up in The American Conservative. I agree that the paleos were right in a lot of ways, with regards to the WoT, but their presentation often made it easy to dismiss.

      • I think I got it right from the beginning.

        Sad dam was a brutal asshole. But he was exactly the kind of cat that has always ruled Arab tribes throughout recorded history. “Saving” Iraq wasn’t worth one American life. “Transforming” Iraq into a democracy was always a foolish fantasy. I used to tell the lefties I argued with that I wish they were correct that we were invading Iraq “for the oil”. Because at least that was a rational (if immoral) reason and one that could actually be accomplished.

        It’s not that I’m some kind of genius, btw. Far from it. I just realistically read the history of the region and looked at their present condition.

        • Exactly. What’s strange is that guys like Zman, and millions of “conservatives”, had blinders on and didn’t really want to see what was going on right in front of them.
          It wasn’t hard for a reasonably informed individual to see the handwriting on the wall.

      • Z Man;

        You’re right about the many confusing political cross-currents during the Bush II years. Having been around during Vietnam, the anti-war demonstrations against Iraq II looked to me like aging ’60s lefties who wanted one more hit from the bong of self-righteous opposition to ‘the man’ (even though they were now ‘the man’ themselves). Besides this, the Clinton/Cloud’s ‘spread-democracy’ ideology was behind Bush’s Iraq occupation policies too.

        So it was pretty tempting to support Bush II despite his highly questionable ‘religion of peace’ BS and whitewashing Clinton’s culpability for 9/11: I despised his obviously shameless critics who voted for the war when it was popular and shrieked dementedly against it when it bogged down. Turns out the shameless shriekers were right for the wrong reasons about Iraq. Their silence about Libya tells you how utterly contemptible they are.

        But Progs. being contemptible does not exonerate the Bushies for being stupid. To begin with, W was an adult during Vietnam and so had no excuse for not knowing his domestic enemies: Same people both times. He had to know his time window was going to be short. But he let the State Dept run the occupation anyway.

        • > Having been around during Vietnam, the anti-war demonstrations against Iraq II looked to me like aging ’60s lefties who wanted one more hit from the bong of self-righteous opposition to ‘the man’ (even though they were now ‘the man’ themselves).

          I agree. The way you could tell it was a LARP was how contained the “anti-war” response was. None of the antics that were seen in the 60s and 70s, it was just carefully contained and curated. The message was telling shrub (the 2000s version of Drumpf) off but simultaneously not to rock the boat either. Boomers wanted to relive their wild and rebellious Vietnam days yet loved what Bush was doing their 401ks (until 2008 of course).

        • Al, supporting GWB in 2001-2002 was all we had. He made the proper gestures and said the right things, and there was no real alternative to supporting him that made any sense, at the time. Yes, I got played, but the menu of choices was a weak one. Back then, we played by the rules, and supporting GWB was the best choice in a limited rule book.

          BTW, it was Obama that got me (and likely many others) to chuck the rule book. He did serve one useful purpose.

          • You absolutely had a choice, and you and millions of others made the wrong one.
            You willingly went along with a lie, which is what the Bush administration was.
            Plenty of people all over the political spectrum saw what was going on and spoke openly about it.
            You allowed yourself to be played.

    • I was fooled on the Afghan war, but I started getting queasy when Laura Shrub began blathering about “girls going to school.” That was my big red flag that this was going to be the nation building Dubya ran against.

      I was never fooled on Eye-raq. By then I had taken the Pat pill. I actually had two pro-war people, lefty-libertarian types, admit to me years later I was right. It was a lonely time to be anti-war. No argument, no matter how sound, was going to change the mind of the bloodthirsty American public.

      • Some kind of payback was absolutely required with Afghanistan. The initial campaign was a brilliant Airborne / Light Infantry raid. Chased out OBL, destroyed the Taliban government and broke their stuff. At that point we should have issued dire warnings and gone home.

        I knew something was terribly wrong in 2003 when we started offloading heavy units and building up a permanent presence.

    • It was not going into Iraq that was wrong, but the conduct of the invasion ie what we did after we invaded. The Allied Forces, or any military anywhere, have but one aim – to destroy the enemy either by killing it or capturing it. We did neither, still suffer from the consequences of this misguided military strategy.

      The West no longer has the guts to do a military intervention well, it may sound uncomfortable, barbaric even, but when one faces evil there’s no half way of destroying it.

  29. The awakening is the reason the dissident right fails to use forceful tactics. The majority (I would probably argue close to 100%) of the dissident movement arrived here by noticing things, not a forceful situation where someone proclaimed this is the way things are. So the dissident tends to not forcefully proclaim their positions.

    This fact (as i see it) puts the dissident right in the position to exploit the other sides vices (that is a wonderful way to phrase it Z). As John Rivers has noted on GAB, the path forward for the dissident movement is to pit the other side’s vices against a larger and larger portion of the traditional right (christians are his population to target). The dissident movement should focus on forcing Twatter and Faceberg to apply their community standards against the obviously homophobic teachings of the christians. Push the other side to attack larger and larger portions of the people not yet awake.

    • Christians are well aware of their adversaries, thank you very much, MS. In case you haven’t noticed, several of our churches have fallen to them. I think the cool kids call it ‘churchianity’ or somthing, as if it is a thing. They only see part of our defeat; where queers and feminists caper about the pulpit and ape the traditions of the church they destroyed. What those children miss is that those churches often empty out in short order and they end up closing their doors.

      The more I think about your proposition, the more I disagree with it. As a Christian my sensibilities align with most of the the dissidents. I don’t want queers or women telling me what I can say or think. I will be keeping my guns, thank you very much. And no, I don’t want to flood my country with violent, stupid human trash from the third world so that idiots like Nancy Pelosi can fortify their democrat media/welfare complex. The dissident Right has not been exactly respectful of my religion or indifferent. I will take either over what the prog left is offering.

      May God rot my balls for saying it, but I feel in my heart of hearts that it’s true: if you want to drive a wedge into your enemies – it might be better to pit the prog against the Jew….

      • The number one most important and impactful thing we can do is try to awaken fellow believers to the reality of the JQ (both the political and spiritual aspects) and the bastardized, un-Biblical version of Christianity that proclaims you must welcome foreigners to invade your land and violate your women.

        My home church literally had a full-scale replica of the Western wall built–complete with Israeli flags–and encouraged us to pray against it. They mean well but this is pure satanic idolatry.

    • I see a lot of grousing from some corners on our side about how 2018 was at best stagnant and in many ways a disaster. From the pt-of-view of some individuals who suffered at the hands of our enemies, yes.

      But what strikes me as most important about 2018 was that the left no longer wears a mask or seeks to hide its intentions. People are going to begin noticing things a lot more quickly because our enemies will be a lot more open about who they are and what they intend to do about legacy America.

      We should help them along by tweaking them as often and in as many ways as possible.

      • And for part of that tweaking, we should pin the next logical conclusion of their atrocities hard on them. There are only two places they can go with that – either full denial and full stop, or to admit their acceptance and keep adding steam to their runaway train. Either way will open more eyes of the normies.
        LGBQT? NO, it’s LGBQTPedo! Feminism? NO, it’s Black/Brown/White feminism! Open borders? NO, it’s Open Households! Gay marriage? NO, it’s open marriage!
        And so on and on and on. Call it out always.
        Edit: I disagree with letting them get on with the persecution of Chrisianity. The faith as a whole may be too fragile in the world’s view at present to survive such a pogrom unless it can be fortified on the carcasses of the shitlib sects in real time.

      • Yves;

        Another sorta good thing about 2018 was that a lot of Paul Ryno’s CoC owned placeholder pubbies in Congress got culled by false-flag D ‘moderates’ the Progs. parachuted into suburban districts in an eminently foreseeable (but evidently not foreseen) replay of ’06. Given Nancy Palsi’s plans they will be forced to drop the mask and so should be reasonably easy to replace with MAGA folks in 2020 so long as the local R Parties nominate strong candidates and start paying some actual attention to the shameless Prog vote stealing we saw all over the country this fall. No more of ‘That’s not who we are’.*

        The chief evidence that Congressional ‘leadership’ didn’t foresee this obvious Prog ploy is that they did as little as absolutely possible to enact their campaign promises. Once they had the House, Senate and Whitehouse they were out of excuses. Their genius election plan: ‘Control spending_? Build the Wall_? Infrastructure Program_? We need to give the base some reason to vote for us_? Nah, bro, are you f’n kidding me, all we need is a corporate tax break. Negative ads will do the rest.’
        * I must respectfully disagree that there is no need for having some ability to say ‘who we are’ even though it is indeed a waste of time to gnaw over the fine points.

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