Regulating The Public Space

There are few things good about aging, but one of those benefits is you start seeing how history often repeats itself. There is nothing new under the sun, but when you are young most everything is new to you. When you get old, you have experienced enough to begin noticing the repeats of things you saw in your youth. For example, those old enough to remember the early the days of the internet, probably recognize what’s happening with the tech giants trying to regulate the public space.

By early days, I’m not talking about the iPhone 4 days. I’m talking about the Windows 3.1 days, when the internet was for weirdos, who knew how modems worked and liked tricking the phone company for free long distance. It was when hobbyists assembled their own computers It was when NewEgg was called Egghead and operated in shopping centers. That was before the phrase “social media” existed, but there was still plenty of social media and plenty of people on it, just smarter people.

Usenet and bulletin board systems served the same role as Twitter and Facebook, without the cute names and billionaires trying to control the platforms. Like the big social media platforms, they started with the same general idea. They would be open forums for people to debate and argue. The internet was going to be free from the censorship of the old media and free from government control. The same things people say about bitcoin today were said about the internet in the olden thymes.

What happened to those first public forums and those that succeeded them is a good lesson for understanding what is happening to the big social media platforms. Usenet, for example, started as an open platform for anyone with internet access. It did not take long for jerks and troublemakers to arrive. Soon, the squabbling and fighting fractured the community into separate channels. In short order, Usenet became a million little havens for like-minded people to talk about their thing in semi-private.

Bulletin boards followed a similar path. Their successor, the message board also followed a similar arc. The first boards for college sports, for example, soon turned into free-for-alls and shattered into hundreds of small, private boards. Unlike Usenet, the creators of these boards initially tried to regulate the content by having moderators ban trouble makers and people trolling for attention. That just encouraged the trouble makers to find clever ways around the rules, in order to disrupt the communities.

What was discovered in those early efforts of public forums is that the public is pretty awful and needs to be regulated. You just can’t let everyone into a public forum and have them say what they wish. On the other hand, the cost of regulating who enters and what is said is prohibitive. The more you regulate the forum, the cleverer the troublemakers get at disruption. This sets off an increasingly costly game of cat and mouse between the moderators and the people seeking to disrupt the forum.

The solution to the problem was the oldest of solutions. Peaceful separation allowed everyone to have a forum, but it reduced the incentives for the disruptive. Going into the forum of a rival group, for example, and posting a bunch of troll-bait, did not provide the same dopamine rush to the troll as it did on a public forum. There was no one around to see it and cheer it. It was like being a graffiti artist in a blind community. These trolling efforts were quietly removed and the community could easily ignore them.

That is what will happen with the big social media hubs. Twitter is the first that will splinter into a million separate channels, as it is the most public. Gab has weathered the assaults and now provides a home for dissidents. Telegram is now becoming the favorite tool for young people creating small communities. Others are working on alternatives for other tribes, looking for a place on-line both free of censorship and the sorts of people who just seek to disrupt. This is a repeat of the message board phenomenon.

YouTube and Facebook are a bit different. Facebook already has the ability to let users self-segregate within the forum. That solves the trolling a bit, but the company is run by the sorts of people who liked being moderators on chat boards in the old days. They can’t help but meddle in the discourse of others, even those in private groups on the platform. Given the demographics of the platform, it will probably collapse at some point as people realize its user base is old people, robots and gullible advertisers.

YouTube is the one to watch. As server capacity outstrips demand, the cost of hosting video will keep dropping. There are services popping up as alternatives to YouTube, with some starting as commercial enterprises. This service lets you create a branded channel that can be distributed on a variety of platforms. If you have talent and can hold an audience, the days of relying on YouTube are numbered. Since YouTube has never made money, it’s hard to see a future for the service as currently constructed.

None of this is to say that the tech oligopolies will come to their senses and stop trying to suppress speech on-line. In all probability, they will exhaust themselves trying to stamp out dissent, which means things will get much worse. Apple, for example, is now censoring speech within chat programs like Telegram. Microsoft is promising to moderate speech over Skype. The people behind these efforts are driven by hatred and self-loathing, so they lie awake at night thinking about this stuff.

The trouble is, it is expensive. The latest YouTube banning probably cost the company $10 million dollars to organize. It’s pretty clear they invested a lot of manpower in reviewing specific videos. The return on that investment was mostly bad press and greater awareness by regulators that there is a problem. That’s a lesson from the old days too. No matter how right they were to regulate users, the forum moderators were always looked upon unfavorably. They were the prison guards of the system.

That last bit is probably key. A decade ago, Apple was a cool brand run by an equally cool genius who liked wearing black turtlenecks. Now it is seen as a Chinese electronics company run by an angry homosexual. Similarly, YouTube used to be a place where young people could express themselves. Now it’s where old Jewish women yell at young people for using naughty language.With every censorship effort, the reputation of the oligopolies declines. Silicon Valley is now the universal villain.

The point of all this is not that libertarians are right that the market will magically sort out the problem for us. All of this could have been avoided if the government had done its job and cracked down on these oligopolies a long time ago. The natural disaggregation of the public space will not happen without help from the state either. It’s that wide open public forums cannot last. It was tried decades ago by smarter people and a much smarter user base. Eventually, peaceful separation became the only alternative.

If you like living off the sweat of others, then ignore the following. On the other hand, if you care about your community and want to support those working hard on your behalf, consider supporting my work by donating the price of a beer or a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. Unlike those mega-corporations, I will not use your money to destroy your family and community. Or, you can send money to me at: P.O. Box 432 Cockeysville, MD 21030-0432.

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Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
1 year ago

A peaceful separation? That phrase sure seems to come up a lot lately.

Reply to  Wolf Barney
1 year ago

You took the words right off of my keyboard. The Balkanization of digital media, as Zman describes it, looks like a microcosm and a paradigm for humanity.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Wolf Barney
1 year ago

Its stage 3 in the 5 stages of grief that ” I have to go to war or be killed or enslaved because cultural Marxists and globalists fucked my nation.” #1denial. very few people are still stuck at this stage #2 anger. We have a lot of that #3 bargaining. hey maybe we can have a peaceful separation #4 depression. black pills ahoy #5 acceptance. better check my preps and my accountability lists Most people on the Right are still at 2 with a fair amount at #3 and #4 and avery few at #5 When enough reach 5 and… Read more »

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
1 year ago

To our opponents, “peaceful separation” means us in shallow graves. Never forget that.

Member
1 year ago

>All of this could have been avoided if the government had done its job and cracked down on these oligopolies a long time ago.

But why? Anything the government does sets a PERMANENT precedent (until collapse). Is it worth setting permanent precedents just because a lame silicon valley revenge-of-the-nerds culture ran rampant from 2014-2021?

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

“If you see a Libertarian, Punch him. He’ll know why.”

Member
Reply to  MemeWarVet
1 year ago

I’m betting I can draw before your punch is ready to let fly, little girl.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Anyone trying to push Libertardianism picked the wrong comments section to do it in

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

You pull a gun on someone who is punching you and it’s a felony in many states . Proportional force it’s the law

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

A.B., there are exceptions of course—and valid ones. I’m pushing 70 and are of light build, so I’m required to defend myself with my body (what still’s working) when a 6’1” muscular meat bag begins to pummel me? Not here, not most anywhere. A codified defense is of course “a reasonable fear of death, or grave bodily injury” for use/display of a deadly weapon (my side arm). That one goes from fist a cuffs to lethality in one step is of course a factor to be considered in assessing guilt, but the defense as stated above is valid and indeed… Read more »

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Compsci
1 year ago

Of course, just what i said proportional force .

Member
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

I am an incredibly persuasive speaker and charismatic man, and will have no difficulty convincing a jury that it was proportional force. 🙂

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Maybe.

A gunslinger mentality is a great way to get dead or seriously hurt.

Also best hope that whoever you just murdered doesn’t have outlaw kin.

In reality though the kind of people liable to punch you over politics are groups like Antifa who often have tacit backing of the State

You may be in trial in some Lefty town and you can ask the guy in Charlottesville how that went for him.

A Postcard from the Volcano
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

So, in other words, (in your own words, really) in defense of libertarianism you’re willing to shoot unarmed little girlls. Pre-emptively.

Good to know.

Member
Reply to  A Postcard from the Volcano
1 year ago

>So, in other words, (in your own words, really) in defense of libertarianism you’re willing to shoot unarmed little girlls. Pre-emptively.

There’s thousands of us. All looking at you.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

There is millions of us . I like those odds. In any case, Libertarians won’t get a say in things no matter who is in charge. The Left is highly authoritarian and only tolerates corporate action when its woke or in their interest. If Leftists were kicked off YouTube there would be a law, yesterday As for the Dissident Right, we know all your tricks. Many of us came from your end of the field You have a mostly Libertarian society now and it sucks. No one s going to let you double down on that. The Dissident Right doesn’t… Read more »

Member
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

Out of curiosity, what is the “libertarian threshold” here? The only comment I made was, roughly, “it will be unwise to centralize MORE power for left wingers to eventually wield, just because of a brief problem that outraged you for less than a decade back in the 2010’s.” Have you all become such philosophical Eloi that this is an outrageous potential outcome? See, while you see me as a libertarian (I’m not), I see you as neocons, forging eternal patriot acts to correct 2001’s problems, and making 2020’s people live with it. Anyway, back to the subject: We can shoot… Read more »

Lars Emillson
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

“You have a mostly Libertarian society now…”

What an amazing assertion. There is nothing remotely libertarian about the ongoing incest between big corp and bloated gov, or the debt-based jewbuck cabal, or the gun-backed tax, property confiscation, and redistribution racket. or corrupt militarized law enforcement, or endless war mongering abroad, or institutionalized anti-White persecution, etc.

If our society were actually libertarian-leaning, tyrannical behemoths like Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube would long since have have been dissected under anti-trust legislation.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Lars Emillson
1 year ago

I’ve never met a Libertarian that believes in anti trust legislation of any kind. You might be the first. Now in fairness not having corporate subsidies reduces big corporations somewhat but no Libertarian I’ve met is opposed to foreign trade cheap labor or has a real plan to do with things like dumping to destroy markets either .These things cause endless problems Most are basically money obsessed anarchists who like big corporations. That said our society doesn’t need a lot of things like gay marriage (the least harmful of all of these) weed, vagrancy and porn that are now legal… Read more »

The Last Stand
The Last Stand
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Whatever is good for our people is our only principle. If that means nationalizing, regulating, or breaking up corporations so be it.

Member
Reply to  The Last Stand
1 year ago

Well– now, I think what you have in that is a trust problem. In that– who you gonna trust to do this? I don’t trust you. I don’t trust my neighbors and my society, who elected a foreign invader as president a mere ten years ago. I don’t trust my fellow citizens who were okay with making the purchase of a product from a private company (health insurance) a condition of citizenship. Fuck everyone. For Big Companies, though, I take a pragmatic solution: Socialists have to live by socialist rules. So for these big companies that get in bed with… Read more »

Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Government regulation isn’t the same thing as socialism.

Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

It’s still a trust issue– and the USA is no longer a high trust society, and is too mixed now to ever be again.

Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Well, I agree with that. And that’s why secession is the only solution, I’m afraid. All conversation that doesn’t entertain that reality is just window-dressing.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Join or die. Not exactly a new slogan but an apt one I think.

In any case Libertarianism is a dead letter. The future will be regulated for the common good, the only question is whose vision of the common good will it be either the Left or the Dissident/New Right

Member
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

There’s no “common good” with this much diversity. Are we going with the common good that allows Muslim men to rape kaffir women who are dressed provocatively? Or the common good that allows panicked females to destroy the livelihood of any male whose gaze lingers on her too long? Maybe the common good that allows urban youth to simply take your car radio because you neglected to guard it for an hour while you ran into a restaurant? You have several decades of solving the diversity problem before you need to turn your mind to the common good problem. And… Read more »

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

The US will never be a high trust society again no matter what the racial dynamic. People aren’t religious enough In any case the US is too developed to tolerate the high levels of our historical grifting Left or Right it is going to be a lot more regulated just to make sure people have enough income to raise a proper family and stable jobs if we don’t do this, we won’t have babies, And note after it fell, the USSR went into population freefall and thus far not a single nation has ever recovered Hungary might but Poland’s baby… Read more »

LineIntheSand
LineIntheSand
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

You understand that there are two paths before traditional whites: minimize diversity or libertarianism.

Libertarianism fails because of the inherent tribalism on non-whites. For many non-whites, ethnocentrism often is more powerful than the deracinated pursuit of individual advantage. Non-whites, as a group, want to crush whitey and there is no reason to believe this will change.

If libertarianism fails then we must pursue the other path, as difficult and unlikely as it is.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  LineIntheSand
1 year ago

Libertarianism would only work in a society where everyone was White and middle class or up and is a Libertarian themself.

In reality it will be voted out of existence by non Whites and will just mean Whites have to pay for spoils for everyone else.

Grab the spoils or be screwed. Truth is there are no cuck options, no retreat options , no Benedict option.
Fight for your people or else.

Right now, the Fight is political and economic but its not going to stay that way forever.

The net result is simply Join or Die

Lars Emillson
Lars Emillson
Reply to  LineIntheSand
1 year ago

“Libertarianism fails…” Libetarianism explicity supports feedom of association or disassociation for any reason. No justiciation to higher authority needed, Libertarianism explicity supports the right of self-defense with whatever level of physical force is required. These are core principles. A secession from the larger, diversity-ridden polity is perfectly consistent with these principles. This includes the formation and defense of a tribe, or any other type of orgainzation, based on race or ethnicity. But then, how White men choose to organize – whether libertarian, fascist, socialist, republic, monarchic, oligarchic – is not really the issue. No matter what shape our eventual collective… Read more »

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Lars Emillson
1 year ago

This will work great till woke people get you deplatormed from all banking , nearly all shopping and and unemployable

They are already trying to do this to gun companies claing freedom of association.

So no. Its bullshit

Rule or be ruled.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

My problem with pretty much EVERY single argument I’ve ever seen about “regulating” the market – is that the entities in question have ALWAYS gotten so large BECAUSE they were intimately connected to the state. Google is deeply in bed with the deep state – and is (as I believe you yourself have pointed out) almost another arm of the government. Facebook is the same way. So the arguments that they should be “regulated” by that very same government – seem just a bit naive and ignorant of the true situation. Going back thru time – when it was usually… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

They didn’t “get a free pass” – they are CONNECTED. That’s worse than a free pass. This is why I can never take lefties seriously – they’re like naive children about the true nature of what is REALLY going on. When the local factory owner’s kid runs around town banging all the dumb girls from the wrong side of the tracks , smashing cars up in drunken driving escapades – and smashes into the local carpenter’s work van – and the police don’t do shit about it ……. it’s not because he “got a free pass”. It’s because the police… Read more »

Ivan
Ivan
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

You describe how I felt about the whole “Money out of Politics movement”. Haven’t these retards ever heard of Quid Pro Quo? The explicit exchange of money isn’t necessary to make deals, and in fact plausible deniability is preserved if you refrain from actually exchanging money.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

I don’t give a crap about economic systems if outright Communism or more likely National Socialism got people to have kids at a decent clip, I’d got for it So long as the White TFR is at least 2.1 which it hasn’t been since 1972 BTW ! and its 80% White the rest doesn’t matter. As it is the current system is not working and giving more power to woke multinational companies in hopes they’ll trickle jobs on us like some golden rain is stupid A healthy future US will probably be a closed fairly regulated market with little foreign… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

Except it didn’t The Chinese might have out-bred their commie leaders lust for death, but the Russians sure didn’t. What was left after the Soviet goat-fuck collapsed was a destroyed country and a seriously lowered expected life span AND a shitty birth rate. Nazis DID increase the birth rate – then they took all those extra male bodies and buried them in the ground. Less than one lifetime after the Nazi experiment left German a smoking pile of rubble – the people left in Germany think it’s a good idea to let the entire third world immigrate into their homeland.… Read more »

Lars Emillson
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

They got a free pass. And they were in bed. They got a free pass in part because they helped big gov surveil the citizenry and propagate the approved narrative. How many times did Zuckerberg hobnob with BO in the WH?

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Carlsdad, if we applied the Communications Act of 1934 to Social Media companies, it would solve most of our problems.

One of the act’s provisions denied Ma Bell the ability to deny phone service to someone based on their personal beliefs.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  MemeWarVet
1 year ago

I’m not fully familiar with the 1934 act – or the follow-on 1996 act.

But from what I am familar with – those acts would apply more to the actual internet services used to transmit the content supplied by Youtube, Google, Twitter – etc. , than they would for opening up those company’s platforms for opposing view points.

Regulating Twitter, Facebook, Youtube – etc, seems more like regulation of TV stations – than it does the airwaves they transmit over.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Cal; The communications acts were, made necessary because common or regulated property had to be used to advance the technology. Re wireless, the radio spectrum is, in effect, a commons that is easily made useless by everybody just doing their Libertarian thing. My use of frequency X most defiantly harms your ability to use it too. But you might want to use frequency X too. How to sort this out_? You and I alone might be able to sort this out by ourselves like good Libertarians, but the situation becomes unwieldy as more actors are added. And, all it takes… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Al from da Nort
1 year ago

That’s a very good explanation – but doesn’t apply to Youtube or Twitter or Facebook. Yes – everybody can setup their own radio station on 92.9 FM. Because the airwaves ARE a common. Without somebody saying : ” you get this frequency with this much wattage ” everybody is potentially stepping on everybody else’s dick. The internet however – technically – is NOT, a common. Until the available bandwidth gets filled – nobody is stepping on anybody else’s dick. And all it takes to resolve bandwidth issues – is to add more, or go to a better technology. If people… Read more »

Chris_Lutz
Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

If you look back at the when the anti-trust laws came into effect in the early 20th century, one of the reasons was the robber barons were controlling the gov’t. So thinking that a vast public outcry to make the gov’t break them isn’t naive. It has happened multiple times with from the robber barons to AT&T. In the 90’s, Microsoft pumped money into Apple to keep it afloat and avoid more antitrust scrutiny.

Al from da Nort
Al from da Nort
Reply to  Chris_Lutz
1 year ago

Chris L;
Agree. The historical pattern with new technologies seems to be ‘Cutting edge to oligarchy in one generation (sometimes less)’.

For example, railroads were cutting edge technology in the 1850’s. They had different gages (track separation), weren’t interconnected, etc. But by the 1880’s they had become standardized and were busy exploiting the farmers and miners. By the 1890’s they had to be broken up/regulated due to political pressure from public outcry.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Al from da Nort
1 year ago

And in modern times the railroads have been deregulated thru the Staggers Rail Act.

Now we have actually have functional companies running efficient freight rail lines using modern technology and being run at a profit.

Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Good post. And what it points to is the reality that all of our various quandaries point to–we need a new country with a very different government and populace.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

Well, we could become Mennonites, who may safely be described as white people practicing their own religion, disciplined and industrious, untainted by diversity, procreative, passing their history and language on to their children, thriving in new countries with very different governments and populations. The 70,000 Mennonites in Bolivia, for instance, are doing rather well, as are their brethren here in western NY.

Our quandary is that we want some generalized equivalent of what the Mennonites (and Amish) actually have, through tradition, faith, community, etc., but without the work.

Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

I’m not sure a horse-and-buggy society is necessary to have a flourishing, traditional society. Not that I have anything against the Mennonites, mark you. I’m just not particularly tempted to join them.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

That’s my point, Ostei. Neither am I. But it’s a community that will outlive the rest of us, for all our talk of ethno-solidarity and rejection of hypermodern capitalism.

They’re interesting and impressive people, and they made their decision a long time ago, and it seems to work for them.

The Last Stand
The Last Stand
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

It will work until the Leftist Borg takes notice of them. They have to solidify control over mainstream society first before liberating the Amish and Mennonites and bringing them the wonders of diversity.

David Davenport
David Davenport
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

“. But it’s a community that will outlive the rest of us, for all our talk of ethno-solidarity and rejection of hypermodern capitalism.”

Amish and Mennonites exist in America only because the larger society tolerates them. But who say can for sure that some future ever-Leftward marching USA gooberment will tolerate such deviant Christian groups?

One of the stupidities of Libertarianism is the notion that politics can or will whither away and leave Libertarians unharmed in some future Utopia.

Lars Emillson
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

Ostei, I had occasion several years ago to tour the eastern farmlands of Paraguay where there were several large and separate Mennonite communities. They had immigrated there from Germany more than a century ago, I believe. They spoke both their native German and the Paraguayan Spanish. At the time I was more interested in the geopraphic sites, but I did notice the lush condition of their fields, the high-quality construction of their massive barns, and the excellent condition of their modest, but attractive homes. As far as I could ascertain, they do use certain types of machinery and they drive… Read more »

Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

>A simple way to solve a lot of this is to restore property rights to the people.

I agree vehemently with this solution. It probably only takes a couple well placed lawsuits, too.

>Regulating markets is the duty of the state.

Well, as long as it’s being done by someone we trust. 🙂

Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Which is pretty much Sunspot’s point, I think. Kto kogo?

Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

The unanswerable part is: Who are we going to trust to do this regulation. I’m a total Trumptard, and I wouldn’t even trust him to do it. How about you? We’ve gone from a high trust society to a low trust one to a complete shit trust one now at this point. The “trust someone to regulate” solution is simply going to be economic warfare, switching which side at each election, from here on out. And frankly, I’d trust a king more than I’d trust a liberal democracy. At leas the king wants to leave his children in a good… Read more »

Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

We agree, but for different reasons. My take is that Google (etc) are Big Socialist Network Industries, and therefore are 100% subject to whatever Big State wants to do to them. What I don’t want is a law intended to break up Google to eventually stop a little Mom and Pop internet provider from existing, while not hindering Google int he least. Which is what happens Every. Single. Time. You guys are always catching dolphins in your tuna nets. Figure out a way to reserve punishment for abusers, instead of incurring it on everyone and anyone, and not only will… Read more »

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

” In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.” It would seem Sunspot is saying that we have long ago passed the point where we can expect the government to control itself. “I am unable to conceive that the people of America, in their present temper, or under any circumstances which can speedily happen, will choose …men who would be disposed to form and pursue a scheme of tyranny… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  james wilson
1 year ago

Good quotes. And exactly why all these people moaning that the government should “control” Google, and Twitter and Facebook et. al , are wrong. The original concept of these United States was that if you didn’t like Puritans beating your ass for coveting another man’s woman – you could move your ass to another state where the people didn’t look so badly on that. Like Madison said: “the society itself will be broken into so many parts, interests, and classes of citizens, that the rights of individuals, or of the minority, will be in little danger from interested combinations of… Read more »

Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Such fine principles. Such awful results.

Judge Smails
Judge Smails
Reply to  james wilson
1 year ago

Give your new Congolese neighbors a chance, they might surprise you.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Not to be too argumentative here, but it’s the job of *what* State? Seems when we are talking about protecting “free” expression, we only have to look around to our “peers”, like France and Britain to see that they regulate free expression to the detriment of the expressee. Plenty of hate speech rules and folk currently on trial (Le Pen for example). So the question is, as posed previously, who/what is that State you magically cede regulatory authority to? Or for that matter, forget the State, how would you word a statute to be applied to our large media entities… Read more »

Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

We’re low-trust mainly because we’re diverse, and there’s no fixing diversity. I would trust my government, be it democratic or autocratic, far more if it was rooted in a homogeneous populace.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

If we had a homogeneous society we might be able to have a government something along the lines of the one that the normie-cons constantly refer to when they instinctively defend “Muh consteetution!!”.

Which was NOT “democratic” – at least not in the way the word is currently used.

I’ve got no real urge to live under a dictatorship or autocracy. The only reason to have one IMHO – is to keep uncontrollable people under control.

Get rid of the uncontrollable people – and let the rest of us live in our high trust (white) society.

Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Democracy is only as good as its voters. The quality of the American voter has declined precipitously since, oh, I dunno, about 1965. So, in theory, if we could somehow get a voting public that resembled the American one in 1965, democracy could flourish again. However, it was that very populace that was gulled into believing that importing the Third World was just a peachy idea. So there must be obdurate safeguards built into democracy, even when voters are reasonably intelligent and moral.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

Democracy works in pre-modern towns and, apparently, in Switzerland. Any vast, multiethnic empire such as India, China, greater Russia, or the United States, cannot be democratic.

The quality of the voter is neither here nor there. The quality of the candidates, on the other hand… in 2016 we had a vain, semiliterate billionaire going toe-to-toe with a corrupt and drunken murderer. The voter had two choices.

Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

> The only reason to have one IMHO – is to keep uncontrollable people under control. You’ve worded this better than I could. Any law they pass to stop Google abusing its power will also apply to me (and, ironically, not apply to Google in the end). When I say I don’t want this bullshit, fuck-you solution, they start yelling about the white genocide and libertarians (wtf?) These big-gov solutions are fitted for a diverse society. But they won’t work in a diverse society because everyone’s going to grab what they can, when they can, and there’s no such thing… Read more »

Dalits Vs. Daleks
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

White people invent printing press… now, most major newspapers and publishing houses controlled by Jews. White people invent democratic republics… now, your entire government controlled by Jews. White people invent the dollar… by as early as 1913, already controlled by Jews. White people invent radio… soon, most radio stations and radio networks owned and controlled by Jews. White people invent film and cinema… in no time, movie studios owned and controlled by Jews. White people invent television… in the blink of an eye, all TV studios and networks are controlled by Jews. White people invent the Internet… guess what? All… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Dalits Vs. Daleks
1 year ago

/that/ is why we can’t have nice things. I’m not in elementary school any more – and I really object to being punished because little Chaime has been scheming everybody out of their lunch money. The rest of us kids were treating everybody each other fairly. And when somebody got out of line – they got beat up during recess when the teacher wasn’t looking. The kids who got beat up knew what they did – and kept their mouths shut. Otherwise the beatings would get worse – AND they’d be cast out permanently. Chaime thought he could run to… Read more »

Christopher S. Johns
Christopher S. Johns
Reply to  Dalits Vs. Daleks
1 year ago

I’d up-vote you just based on your forum name.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Progressives are the biggest market regulators out there. Progressives lie. That’s what really needs to understood. Pretty much every market regulation I’ve ever seen – was aimed towards dispossessing me of something I wanted or needed. Gun regulation = market regulation. Removes gun ownership options I would otherwise engage in absent the government saying NO. Regulation of the automotive market. I seem to remember getting along just fine driving cars without ABS, airbags, GPS, backup cameras… etc. The critical thing to understand is that you’re going to have know how to navigate – and not smash the vehicle into things.… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

And history is showing us that there is no limit to a government that you ask to regulate you into safety. Once you start down that road – EVERYTHING is open to regulation. And since since absolute power absolutely corrupts – it is INEVITABLE that this government will go out of control. All it takes is a wacky leftist ideology of POC worship or blank slateism thrown into the stew – and you’ve got what have right now. Long before all the POC showed up and the lefties adopted blank slateism, whites were getting sick of living under the yoke… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

LOL

“but our problem is not too much government”

Said every damn commie I have ever run across.

Said every damn lefty progressive in this country since I’ve bothered to pay attention.

There is never too much government for those who wish to push their boots into our necks.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Cal, I hear you. Seems Z-man is really asking for a government of “Angels” and not “men”, but he can’t tell you how to change men into Angels. Libertarianism’s answer to this conundrum is to eliminate government by ideally reducing your government to “yourself”. And that would equate in Z-man’s thinking to unworkable anarchy. Both approaches seem problematic, but are not without valid insight into the problem. Seems to me what Z-man is implying (although he may not realize such) is that government would indeed work—at least for him—if he were in charge of it, or it’s organization. Hell, that… Read more »

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

No one ever leaves anyone alone, It’s not what people do . Someone’s boot is always on someone’s neck. Best ion be your on theirs

Otherwise you should enjoy the abortion on demand, free porn, celebrate gay marriage ,love the legal weed of clown world and just push for less gun laws

Long term if f you don’t want some woke company deciding what you can say or your ISP banning you from the Internet for having the wrong opinion than you had best get boots on their necks

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Gentlemen….you are both correct. The is a giant circle and a cycle. You can argue over how much and when. Believe Derb once wrote about a great-aunt whose husband died in a mine accident. At that time Britain had just started up gov’t pensions, in this case for widows, and his great-aunt and her children received gov’t aid and didn’t have to lose all and go destitute upon the death of her husband. Derb noticed this is about human nature and our need for security. People would eventually vote security through government, and “reliable” pensions rather than church and charity.… Read more »

Rod1963
Rod1963
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Spot on. The libertarian types don’t give a rats ass about people, period. When Clinton was preparing to sign NAFTA, the opposition didn’t come from chain smoking Libertarians, who just ran their mouth about “muh free markets” would fix everything but from white factory workers who smelled a giant rat and fought to stop it. As our country’s industrial and technological sectors got a** raped, the “free marketeers” said squat. The only time we heard from the buggers is when someone tried to stop abuses. You see it here, anyone who proposes any sort of government regulation to reign in… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Rod1963
1 year ago

> The only time we heard from the buggers is when someone tried to stop abuses.

> The libertarian types don’t give a rats ass about people, period.

Are you sure it’s legal to use both those sentences in the same paragraph?

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

An electorate that was 90% White people elected Roosevelt 4 times in fair open elections making him for all practical purposes President for Life LBJ expanded the New Deal into the Great Society and minus the Black Problem and later immigration, were super happy with that Most of Europe has socialized medicine and welfare states essentially no one wants to be rid of either and they are probably better educated about the tradeoffs than Americans are What they don’t want is more migrants Also you have right now with a few caveats more freedom from government than you would have… Read more »

Member
Reply to  A.B Prosper
1 year ago

>If regulation gets the babies, than get too it.

Why don’t you chart out birthrates vs. regulations on the books, over time?

As you take away people’s autonomy, you make them permanent children. Children don’t have children, they drink in clubs and vote for gibs instead.

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

I’ve done this actually but it has to take into account urbanization and technology to be relevant The US is not a nation of farmers and hasn’t been in any lifetime here. AFAICT from my research the US TFR has been in gradual decline since 1900 or so and steep decline since 1930 with the baby boom in the middle THis was before income tax BTW It hit below replacement in the 30’s with the Great Depression, my estimates say 2.0 or a bit higher TFR or so with no birth control, a highly religious population but a high childhood… Read more »

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

You’re on fire today, Calsdad. Good thinking!

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

The internet has done vast damage in normalizing one sided contracts of adhesion (eg every EULA ever). Restoring, even enhancing, their former disfavored status under the law would vastly improve matters across-the-board including the kind of “opt-in” privacy system you’re talking about. We need a silicon-savvy pol (Yang?) to push an internet bill of rights that includes opt-in privacy, Draconian penalties for doxxing and a mandatory set of limitations on EULA’s and other “click to agree to this 30 page shit no one ever reads” contracts of adhesion.

CAPT S
CAPT S
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Trusting in regulation as a problem-solver assumes 3 things: that 51% of voters are of sound ethical judgment, with this being their primary motivation in the polling booth; that these voters elect statesmen of integrity and justice; and those being regulated are prohibited from lobbying said statesmen.

There’s no solution in regulation because we’re a postmodern culture, with >50% of the populace unable to objectively make ethical distinctions. Sure, we can have congressional staffers gin up a few hundred pages of regulatory balderdash but I can’t fathom how that works out for our side.

CAPT S
CAPT S
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Sorry, personal experience makes me no fan of modern era regs ginned up by lobbyists, and you’re naive if you don’t think that’s who writes them. I live on a farm … can’t legally sell milk, although my product is far superior to Big Dairy. Small farmers are continuously shoved out of the marketplace due to regs bought and paid for by Big Ag … tell me how that expands the marketplace? I can’t legally retrieve a bucket of gravel from the creek on my property, as it might threaten native grasses. Buzzards threaten calves, and hawks descend on poultry,… Read more »

David Davenport
David Davenport
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Here’s a useful antitrust precedent to apply to FB, Goog, TWTR, etc.:

“Paramount Pictures, Inc., 334 U.S. 131 (1948), (also known as the Hollywood Antitrust Case of 1948, the Paramount Case, the Paramount Decision or the Paramount Decree) was a landmark United States Supreme Court antitrust case that decided the fate of movie studios owning their own theatres and holding exclusivity rights on which theatres would show their films.
United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc.”

– Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pictures,_Inc.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Precedent only matters to the extent the present decision-makers respect the precedent on principal or its merits. If precedent had the mystical force process-honks rely on to give slippery slope arguments validity, the Warren Court would have been impeached en banc and White cultural hegemony would reign unchallenged. You can’t beat a results-first opposition with a rule of law defense. Start thinking about what you’d like to achieve not whether the rules permit it.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

Government did do its job. The primary job of government is self preservation. Government did nothing that would draw criticism from powerful controllers of up and coming media.
Job done,

The Last Stand
The Last Stand
1 year ago

This raises a question. Censorship is not an effective longterm tactic to fight dangerous ideas. The concept of free speech is its own Achilles heel. What works?

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  The Last Stand
1 year ago

Balance. A little censorship but not too much. Driving at 0 gets you nowhere, driving at 200 gets you killed. Ideologues think in binary terms. Practical thinkers see those false dichotomies as positions on a continuum. Deciding where to reasonably dig in on a slippery slope is easier than coming up with a whole new approach, if one even exists. Public speech will always be censored and the debate will always hinge on how and how much.

Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

Additionally, discourse within homogeneous communities requires less censorship. America is extremely diverse, and as diversity grows, so does censorship. Diversity causes everything it touches to wither and die.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

Ostei, are you sure? I see where you are going, but there are ethnic communities, religious communities, etc. Hard to imagine that rules of discourse, even within such homogeneous communities, won’t run a broad spectrum—from censorious to open—which would get us back to where we are now, calls from competing groups to restrict others’ expression (or do we just disconnect from each other as well?).

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

I don’t think so there was almost no corporate or state censorship five years ago yet equally high levels of diversity

The US when it was 90% White had heavy use of obscenity laws and vice squads

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

Driving 200mph does not get you killed. It only increases your chances of getting killed. I pretty much speed each and every single time I have gotten on the highway – traffic willing. And I have been doing it for more than 35 years. I can drive in rush hour traffic with a highway full of similarly minded people at 80mph – with everybody’s car hanging off the bumper of the guy in front of him – and everything works just fine. On the other hand I know people (women and Asian drivers) – who can’t seem to drive down… Read more »

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Dude…you’re killing me! Years ago living on Oahu, Hawaiian friends would call it “Driving While Asian!” They used to laugh and say, “If all you see is a set of eyesballs barely above the dashboard, watch out.”
As for driving-while-woman, gave up bike riding because I kept somehow aiming for the pylons in the middle of the bikepath. Sigh….

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 year ago

One of the cities near me filled up with Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

There was an awful lot of “Driving while Asian” going on in that city during that time.

They seem to have gotten better over the years though.

Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 year ago

Even Danny Ongais was a human shunt…

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Carlsdad – sounds like you drive like me – and I am female, albeit a unicorn. The problem is not merely Vo Chang and a majority of women (although they are a large part of it). The problem is that Most People Are Idiots – even most White people. Sure, get rid of diversity and you can have the autobahn with no speed limit (God, I loved driving on the autobahn). But when I drove on the Italian highways I was terrified going merely 85mph – because the other drivers were nuts! tl;dr: As Zman said,a total lack of rules/control… Read more »

Member
Reply to  The Last Stand
1 year ago

How about… if you think censorship is okay, you agree to be censored. I.E. Alinsky’s make them live up to their own ideals. Treat a socialist by socialist rules, treat a freedom guy by freedom guy rules.

So under these rules, YouTube is subject to government regulation, as much as we can pile on. Gab is not.

The left has never had to live under their own system. They always retreat under the muh freedom umbrella when anyone punches back. We need to take that sanctuary away from them, but leave it for decent people.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Sunspot
1 year ago

I’ve proposed that system before – it drove the normie cons nuts.

But I still think it would be a good way to make for a separation.

You want a welfare state? Then guess what you have to pay for it.

You want a warfare state? Your ass just got drafted – AND you’re going to get taxed to death to pay for it all.

Companies full of white guys won’t be forced to accept “diversity”.

This is exactly what Alinsky said: make them live up to their own rules.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  The Last Stand
1 year ago

Truth wants out and all that. Overt Censorship need only work long enough to provide cover for the rest of the social engineering to take hold. Then its all Huxley, the sheeple are too overwhelmed, distracted, and satiated to care. The seeds of badthoughts find no fertile ground. Then censorship need only be overt in cases where self-censorship and the other conditioned mechanisms are failing. In current year, the online censorship is overt and heavy-handed because the technology got too far ahead of the forces at work in meatspace. The problem of anonymity and decentralization allow for badthinkers to strike… Read more »

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
Reply to  The Last Stand
1 year ago

In the past, most porn was illegal and any speech or especially art and writing directed at minors was regulated both for good reason. TV was heavily regulated until quite recently as was radio and many private or public venues had morals clauses For that matter homosexual conduct was illegal as was sex outside wedlock also for good reason All of these anti freedom laws existed to slow the propagation of harmful behaviors and ideas. Most likely if there is a Dissident or New Right state it will be pretty authoritarian on some topic for several decades as an interregnum… Read more »

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
1 year ago

Do you moderate here at all, Z?

Yours is about the only internet meeting place I’ve seen that doesn’t seem to have any trolls. I think the only one I have seen is Tiny Dink or whatever his alias de jour is. Another odd thing about this site is that the posters all seem to talk TO each other, rather than past or at each other. The flame wars of the old message boards and most blogs are curiously absent… and it is most refreshing.

Firewire7
Firewire7
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

This venue has probably the best comments section I have ever run into. Its almost like we are using the Information Superhighway to allow the Z community to enjoy coffee and a stimulating chat every morning.

Sean Detente
Sean Detente
Member
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Never moderate. Instigate intelligent conversation in your comments. Gather likeminded fellows. Generate a support network for your fellow whites. Erase the need to always apologize for being white. Remember white is always right.

Jockeying with liberals never works. Everyone always loses that game. Whichever comes first, Separation or civil war may be required.

Whitney
Member
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

I don’t understand tiny duck. Because when he chooses another name it almost always has the initials TD so it’s easily identifiable so why even bother to change the name? And he’s everywhere. Is it the same person or a bunch of people using the same handle?
I’ve actually seen that with a couple posters here where they post a bunch of personal attacks that make them seem like they’re off their meds and the next day it’s a totally different tone which makes me think it’s more than one person on the same name.
Its baffling to me

Reply to  Whitney
1 year ago

There always has to be at least one 8-ball in the rack.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Whitney
1 year ago

You can’t be sure Tiny isn’t a right wing troll. He’s invariably tossing softballs to be hit out of the park. If not, he’s incompetent. Your choice.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  james wilson
1 year ago

Agree.
Whichever, he’s not great at it.

Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

This is really a great place. I wish I had joined much earlier.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

Agreed. My gosh, casting one’s mind back to the days when reading the NRO blog, or the Belmont Club, or Instapundit, belonged to everyday life, like taking a shower or feeding the pets. It’s like my car ran out of gas on a country road and I had no choice but walk through green fields, to rediscover the smell and color of truth.

And the commenters, well, a long and energetic thread can be as entertaining and instructive as a classic Russian novel.

I still need to send my unmarked twenty to the PO Box for Z-man.

A B
A B
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

You mention Fernandez.

Do you have the impression he’s lost the pop off the fastball since joining PJM? It felt like he was producing good, deep stuff near daily. Now, seems rare.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  A B
1 year ago

Agreed. He was my “Z man” back in the day. I even bought one of his e-books. But Trump’s election disoriented him, and the last time I checked in, his fastball had indeed lost its pop.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

Plus PJM is, or was (haven’t checked it lately) an annoying, insulting site designed by incompetent dickheads, pardon my anglo-saxon.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

As I’ve said before, the comments are at least 50% of my learning/benefit from this group. Z-man is of course the other 50%. Can’t have one without the other. But I don’t think the comment section formed from some statistical anomaly. Z-man puts thought into his musings and writes about such at a high level. He’s not (IMO) cursing the darkness, but in a long process of lighting a candle. This piques interest and attracts a certain audience and that inevitably forms the type of comment community Glen remarks upon.

Calsdad
Calsdad
1 year ago

I really think this whole discussion is missing a very vital piece of the puzzle: beatings. Going back probably 17 years ago now – I got into big arguments with the Linux tech nerds at the job I had about how to properly handle the massive increase in email spam that was happening at the time. They kept talking around all sorts of technical solutions to the issue – but most of these guys were Unix geeks going all the way back to the 80’s – so they were exactly those guys you talked about who populated Usenet. I kept… Read more »

Outdoorspro
Outdoorspro
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

I completely agree that the lack of immediate and often painful repercussions has had a seriously negative effect on our society, both online and off. The problems with the offline part are social media and legal. Today, if someone receives a well-deserved beating, it most likely will be recorded, carefully edited to portray the ‘beater’ in the most negative way possible, then auto-played constantly. This will be followed by investigations, the ‘beater’ getting fired, and lawsuits. Sort of takes the incentive away from being civilization’s enforcer and gives the incentive to the ill-mannered dick. My liberal Canadian wife (BIRM) likes… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  Outdoorspro
1 year ago

Men always had two choices when confronted by another. Fight it out or walk away. Just like the animals do in the wild. Our feminized culture has mostly eliminated all that, including on-line. Create an environment where posting things can cause a couple of very angry people to show up at your door uninvited, and a bunch of this stuff would go away.

King Tut
King Tut
Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

“Create an environment where posting things can cause a couple of very angry people to show up at your door uninvited…” We already have that; they are called Antifa.

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  King Tut
1 year ago

Yup, Antifa. They are sort of a hired Mexican Cartel hit team, sent out by others to do their bidding. They do the heavy lifting because the soy boys aren’t willing to face their enemies directly, and they have to hide behind the coattails of others. Bezos might be physically capable of settling matters directly and personally, one on one. But Zuckerberg or Eric Schmidt? Big LOLs. The Zuck sends Sandberg out to fight his girlie slap fights for him now. Personal honor and face-to-face is so yesterday. The laws are also set to discourage such settling of scores. Go… Read more »

The Last Stand
The Last Stand
Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

Who exactly are Antifa though? Judging by remarks made by some people they are hired Soros goons. Others indicate that they are bored college kids radicalized by professors.

The tactics for dealing with the one group do not necessarily apply to the other and it would be helpful to know what is behind those black ninja suits.

Reply to  Dutch
1 year ago

Oh how I wish a pack of Antifa would show up at my door. Give me a much needed opportunity to let off some steam.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Outdoorspro
1 year ago

It probably took me until my 20’s to get there , but I have grown to hate that “violence is never the answer” thing. When I hear people say that , I ask them this: “What is the universal language ?” Typically, they’ll totally fall into the trap and say “Love”. That’s when I get to say : ” you’re completely wrong. The universal language is PAIN. Literally EVERY living thing understands it. I can’t reason with a shark that just grabbed hold of my leg – but I can punch it in the head until it lets go. I… Read more »

The Last Stand
The Last Stand
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom.”
(Starshiptroopers, by Robert Heinlein)

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

This is the dilemma of anonymous speech. Absent Facebook levels of accountability, which leave you horribly over-exposed to doxxing, the solution is to ignore the troll. Deny him his frission of engagement. Imperfect, but optimal.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

“IMHO this is a basic behavior issue, that you can even see manifest in animals.”–calsdad To the power dynamic, add the male/female dynamic. Watched the fishies in the bowl, the dude fish chasing the girlie fish round and around and around endlessly. It was either for fishie nookie or guppie dominance or fish beat down. Over and over and over he was chasing her in circles. Wah-Wah-Wah poor little tormented girlie fish. Then noticed the he-fishie was stopped, just breathing, resting in the other side of tank. The girlie fish watched for a moment, then rushed over to him, nudged… Read more »

Ivan
Ivan
Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 year ago

My fish tank story is a little different. I put about ten minnows in my first tank to help the nutrient cycle get started. One day the guard to my water filter was off while cleaning and sucked up one of the minnows and spit him back out with some striped scars along his body. He was weak for a few days but gradually came back to life. Over the next couple months that minnow grew disproportionately fast and proceeded to peck, harass, and somehow kill every other minnow in the tank. All social instincts in it were dead, it… Read more »

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Ivan
1 year ago

Shhhhh…….Don’t tell Apex Predator.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Range Front Fault
1 year ago

Range, right! I might also add from a youthful interest in Nature shows that in the animal kingdom, violent confrontations are most dangerous when the two competitors are fairly evenly matched. Such begets injury and death. However, most always, the “fight” is not even, is brief, and when over, order is restored to the group, and everyone gets back to cooperative survival.

Seems only humans want to fight until death or live in an unordered, unchallenged, “hierarchy”.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Compsci
1 year ago

Interesting…..that only makes sense.Add male cats to the list of fight to destruction and die by abscesses.

Hoagie
Hoagie
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

The reason you’d get the crap beat out of you if you walked around the neighborhood trolling is because they know who you are. Take away the anonymity of the net, require REAL names addresses, phone numbers and emails and let’s see how fast it calms down. It’s easy to be a commie ass hole if you can’t be found.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Hoagie
1 year ago

Hoagie, unfortunately—as AntiFA and Leftists in general have shown—it can’t be done without great risk. The troll’s anonymity is my anonymity. Indeed, in the very early years of the Internet and email/message board communication, our department head published a manifesto for use of our systems in this “brave new world”. There were 14 or so points, all I thought were good—like no anonymity, one had to use one’s real name—and the concept of “generosity” in ones use of the (limited) facilities—respect for copyright—and so forth. Sorry to say, within the decade just about all his points were ignored or had… Read more »

Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Duels. Just imagine if they legalized dueling. Politician lifespans could be measured in seconds, in today’s environment. They’d have a little more interest to make citizens happy.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

Cal, if the allegory you write is about concerns eliminating trolls, I might add that how the comment software chosen here may present some possible “solutions”. Some comment software allows ratings—like this one does—but the ratings have little import to them. That is to say a Tiny Duck troll with 50 dislikes appears loud and proud next to a positively rated comment with 50 likes, and I’ve noticed TD gets continued reads and responses even days later. Trolls thrive on being noticed and responded to. Perhaps another comment/discussion software that in some manner sends highly negatively rated comments into the… Read more »

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Compsci
1 year ago

Excellent point. In a perfect Z world, the “obvious” trolls should have no thumbs up, thumbs down, or replies. Just treat their input like junk mail, tossed unopened into the garbage. To down vote a TD is food and drink to him or her or it; it means you’ve read and been irritated by he/she/its verbal offering.

For all we know, TD may be the moniker of some sociology department at a state university studying us, probing for our sensitivities and weak points.

All of TD’s comments seem computer-generated to me.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

OK, I’m Tiny Duck and I get -45 on a comment. Or, I get -0 on another comment. Which result is preferred by TD?

New policy: From now on, either here or at Unz, I go +1 for every TD comment. All of us should do the same. +117 for TD resulting from (say):

The white man is on the run. He knows women Love men of color, that a new society is being born from the Wombs of white women who love black men

he knows social justice is coming and his own women hate him

-Tiny Duck

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

That was my quick Rich Little version of a Tiny Duck comment.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

Bartender……A double brandy for the gentleman….quick!

Thorsted
Thorsted
1 year ago

“Black Pigeon Speaks” has just been banned from youtube with nearly half a million subscribers.

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Thorsted
1 year ago

Crap. I really like his stuff.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

He’ll probably surface at Unz

Vegetius
Vegetius
Reply to  Thorsted
1 year ago

What, did Queen Ann link to one of his videos or something?

Felix_Krull
Member
Reply to  Thorsted
1 year ago

That’s what you get for relying on enemy infrastructure. They keep wailing about censorship and alt tech, but they still post all their videos on Youtube, making money for the opposition.

If the creators can’t be arsed to move platform, why should I?

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Felix_Krull
1 year ago

Pretty much the point I’ve been making for a while. Plus – if people move platforms, and start posting all the same things they did before , what can Google, Youtube, Facebook, etc – do about it then? The only recourse then – is to have the government start shutting people down. Which will go to illustrate very clearly who is really the enemy. This is how the fight will play out. If you refuse to engage and want to just keep whining about how all those leftie content platforms are “unfair” – you’re not really fighting the war –… Read more »

Felix_Krull
Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

They suffer from battered wife syndrome. They’re being assraped by people who hate and despise them, and they complain about the lack of lube. A lot of them even have the lack of self-awareness to complain that there are no alternatives to Youtube.

If you want to do your favourite youtuber a solid, flag him, help wean him off the globalist tit.

Oh well, in a few weeks, YT’s terms will include a clause that you can’t post content on supremacist platforms; we’ll soon see who will walk the walk and who will fold.

Member
Reply to  Calsdad
1 year ago

> If you refuse to engage and want to just keep whining about how all those leftie content platforms are “unfair” – you’re not really fighting the war – are you? I want to know… where are the hackers? When I was a young man (in those glory days ZMan mentions in his article) any company doing the equivalent of what YouTube is doing would have received the Electronic Wrath of Every Dork in the Universe. I’m a hardcore computer guy, and I KNOW the defenses are not enough to stop even a mild 4chan assault– so where are they?… Read more »

Reply to  Felix_Krull
1 year ago

What is the viable alternative to Youtube?

Felix_Krull
Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

Seriously?

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

The viable alternative to Youtube is not watching it.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Thorsted
1 year ago

Well, this is bad news – not surprising, just bad, like learning that your 90-year-old mother broke a hip… I just checked to make sure that PJ Watson and The Truth Factory are still available; I don’t watch political videos often, but when I do, I tend to binge-watch, and BPS was one of the best.

I’m binge watching PJW and TTF now, just in case.

David_Wright
Member
1 year ago

Maybe we on the right should have back up systems in place. Like the bbs of old, through dial up, off the internet and away from IP address locations. Are there still serial ports on computers? Ok , I jest but for the real subversive sounds interesting.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

I’m still interested in “pirate Internet” ala pirate radio. I don’t have enough tech background to have a good sense of its feasibility and lack the free time to give it a good look. Would appreciate a “for Dummies” reply from those of Us in the know

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

The entire Dissident Right should be on TOR.

Thus far, only Daily Stormer has made that leap. I’d strongly recommend to Z that he do so in the near future.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  MemeWarVet
1 year ago

I thought Tor was thoroughly Fed-compromised if not outright back-doored or false-fronted. Weren’t they exposed for similar around the time Snowden started making news?

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

>Tor sites can’t be shut down by the Silicon Valley Thought Police, that’s the reason to have a presence there.

>If you are any sort of bad thinker, you should be using a VPN. Drop what you’re doing and get one now if you don’t already have one.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

If the Feds really want you, you’re fucked, The issue is the endless horde of freelancing antifa wannabe’s and the corporations whose resources they control. You just don’t know who might be building a dossier on you.

Reply to  David_Wright
1 year ago

There is supposedly something called the “dark web,” but I’m totally in the dark about it…

Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 year ago

It’s just websites you go to directly via IP address, with no easy-for-girls-to-remember url to type in. So they’re “dark.” It sounds a lot more Awesome Pirate Adventure than it really is.

Vegetius
Vegetius
1 year ago

We cannot cede one bit of digital space without smart resistance.

Even when a platform is pronounced dead by the cool kids, our people must continue to plant the flag, 24/7.

MossHammer
Member
1 year ago

Carlsdad identifies a critical difference in the social exchanges: physicality. Online communities lack physical community and I suspect that tying stupidity (trolls) to an actual person, possibly living or working in your physical world, might self-select.

How can we dissidents “panic early” regarding the use of online tools, gathering points, etc. to minimize the natural effects of scaling the collection of like-minded people?

An aside. Zman thank you for broaching practical and strategic topics over the last few posts. As a “newly minted” dissident, I’m hungry for forward-thinking / doing labor.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  MossHammer
1 year ago

You’d need a “secret-cell” structure to provide security in the Current Year. Michael Hayden (piss be upon him) recently bragged in Big Media about how he uses socks to infiltrate us, incite newbs to fed-posting then calls in the FBI et al. Mailing lists, user lists etc are a huge point of vulnerability when Big Other takes down a dissident influencer. Samizdat- Sovs learned these lessons in an even harsher school. Look to spycraft & criminal organizations for strategy & tactics.

MartyEv
MartyEv
1 year ago

“The same things people say about bitcoin today were said about the internet in the olden thymes”. Very much like this line, if there is something much more annoying than libertarians, it is bitcoin people. I understand there might be something to bitcoin/blockchain that is valuable for dissidents, and sure there will probably be some success stories (hopefully from those friendly to whites), but I’ve never seen a group of people so convinced that they’re going to be billionaires and rule the world. Don’t they realize the state and big tech corporations are already making their plans with the technology… Read more »

Guest
Guest
1 year ago

I’m fond of saying that Constituitons are formed of paper and ink, while institutions are formed of the accumulated cultural wisdom of a society and its traditions. The Bill of Rights was an attempt to encode the God-given rights of Man, as understood by the Founders through the prism of Western Civilization, that no government could infringe. It is a product of Western culture, and more particularly of English culture. There is no cultural foundation for these rights in countries outside of Western Civilization, and there’s simply no reason to believe the rights encoded in Bill of Rights, including the… Read more »

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  Guest
1 year ago

Exactly. And personnel is policy. I think it was Frank Herbert who said in one of the Dune sequels (about the BG’s?) something to the effect that a system of perfect laws is inferior to a tyranny of good deciders.

Reply to  Guest
1 year ago

Burke and Scruton tip their caps.

Yves Vannes
Yves Vannes
Member
1 year ago

Silicon Valley is engaged in a balancing act. It’s no longer the hippie libertarianism (everybody gets their own space) of the old days. There are still a few people like that around but they are terrified of their employees, many of whom are literally members of antifa. On the other hand if they outright ban all dissidents then dissent has no way to blow off steam except to take IRL action. The more astute understand the need not to completely deplatform dissent. This strategy is on its way out. Sort of. “Yang Nervousness ” of a white uprising and violent… Read more »

Jay
Jay
1 year ago

Get something to sell

Juri
Juri
1 year ago

I think that current campaign is only testing the water for massive internet blackout.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Juri
1 year ago
Member
1 year ago

Zman – another excellent post. Yes I remember the BBS days. Was never a super nerd hacker but remember those days (pre-AOL chat room) in mid-90s. I’m about your age and yes, it is true that the Interwebs have swung wildly from one extreme to the other – I remember the libs all lamenting the fact back in the early 2000s that the right was dominating the tubes. I guess it is a constant swing between the forces of freedom (us good guys) and the forces of equality (the devil’s spawn).

karl Mchungus
karl Mchungus
1 year ago

OT: i predict the HK protests will spread to the mainland and the communist party will lose control and be removed from power.

Juri
Juri
Reply to  karl Mchungus
1 year ago

No, they will not. Days of colored revolutions are over. Ukraine was the last hooray. Next hot spot is Persian Gulf.

Dalits Vs. Daleks
Reply to  karl Mchungus
1 year ago

I predict that there are two possibilities here:

1.) You know absolutely nothing about Chinese history. Or,

2.) You actually know a great deal about Chinese history. Hats off!

Either way, whether it’s Shih Huang-ti or the Heavenly Kingdom of Great Peace (LOL), one thing is certain: China will keep on being Chinese. Would that we could say the same thing for the West, which will also become Chinese. Today Vancouver, tomorrow the world!

“China my china, I’ve
Wandered around, and you’re
Still here.
Which I guess you
Should be proud of…”
— Brian Eno

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  karl Mchungus
1 year ago

Ah, no. Some of those guys actually read Tocqueville and Burke and know that when authoritarian rule concedes even a token of it’s authority it loses all in short order. The opposition has read that also, but they, like us, are not moving forward without a black swan. But here’s hoping you are right.

A Postcard from the Volcano
Reply to  james wilson
1 year ago

China is like a forest w/r/t forest fires. So long as everything is going jim-dandy economically, (which is now), then no forest fire. When the peasantry is too poor, too tired, or too fed up (which they’re not right now), then there’s a lot of tinder and underbrush and deadwood on the forest floor, and then, WHOOSH! Either Tai-ping Rebellion or dynastic change. The Chicoms started out as the Taipings, and without Deng Xiaoping they would have crumbled like Tai-pings after death of Mao. But Deng saw the road to prosperity, and prosperity arrived, so now, Chicoms are not failed… Read more »

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  james wilson
1 year ago

The “thaw” under Khrushchev, and Mao’s idea of letting “a hundred flowers bloom” demonstrated to both rulers that they held tigers by the tail. Neither man was thoroughly evil, but neither was receptive to changes in their power or their self-regard. When a weak dam holds back millions of gallons of fury, you can’t pull your thumb from the hole. You can’t be moderate, you can’t listen to that little voice of decency and humanity in your soul.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  james wilson
1 year ago

Plus they have the USSR as a recent example. Hardliners knew that once they eased off the totalitarian levels of oppression they’d de-stabilize badly. The post-Stalin era was a long march of concessions & decline by the Reds. OTOH, David Satter, (caveat – a raging lib & Askepath-sympathizer) always said that the Brezhnev era when he lived in the USSR was no longer totalitarian because it didn’t need to be – they had already crushed effective dissent & were left with a largely somnelent, if snarky, populace of sheeple by the 1970s. China may be in a similar phase.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

I sure hope something wonderful and unexpected occurs in China before I die. I like the Chinese, and they deserve something better than a permanent kleptocracy and life under the eyes of a panopticon.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

When in their history have they NOT lived under such a system?

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Exile
1 year ago

There seems to be a lot more personal freedom in China than in the Untied States,
That may or may not be a tempory thing.

A B
A B
Reply to  bilejones
1 year ago

Bike, that most assuredly is not the case.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  bilejones
1 year ago

move there then.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  karl Mchungus
1 year ago

Sounds crazy, but then the USSR went down out of the blue when all our experts said otherwise, when ‘A Day in the Life in the USSR’ was a popular coffee table book in the late 1980s.

Not that I will put money on this horse, but it has happened before, this sort of abrupt change.

Cloudswrest
Cloudswrest
1 year ago

“… but there was still plenty of social media and plenty of people on it, just smarter people.”

It was the beginning of the end when the AOL people got internet access. There was a phase change in the quality of Usenet postings. It was also around this time that I got my first spam email. Seeing that first spam email I was like totally WTF! I was outraged. My inner sanctum was violated.

Christopher S. Johns
Christopher S. Johns
1 year ago

May the tech wokeocracy endure at least a decade of mostly meaningless, but very expensive, embarrassing, value-destroying and time-consuming anti-trust litigation before their bell tolls. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Christopher S. Johns
1 year ago

When Standard Oil was broken up, Rockefeller ended up with controlling ownerships of all seven successor companies and his personal wealth was much enhanced.
For some funny reason that never gets discussed much.

John Gritt
John Gritt
1 year ago

The real analog for Twitter is IRC and not Usenet. Usenet is the analog for forums. Even the hashtag comes from IRC as it is the symbol that precedes channel names. On IRC anyone can create a channel. Persons can hold channels by running bots. Eventually some IRC networks let channels get registered with permanent owners. IRC channels with operators would kick / ban trolls. Trolls would fight back with flooding. It was all rather fun. Twitter is an asynchronous chat services that pushes chat out to subscribers of users (aka personal channels) and saved hashtags (if you use say,… Read more »

Dutch
Dutch
Reply to  John Gritt
1 year ago

And the guest at the party craps all over the host. I guess your mother never taught you any manners when you were a kid, John.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  John Gritt
1 year ago

This arrogance of yours, John, does it serve you well in everyday life? You speak ex cathedra as if everyone here has failed to finish high school.

I assume your mother bragged about your reported IQ and that it is a badge pinned to your breast.

There is a class of man – mainly white guys, as Eddie Murphy would have said – obsessed with their IQ and the length of their dicks. Are you one of these men, John?

You make interesting points, then ruin them by being an asshole. Why?

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  John Gritt
1 year ago

John, you trolling again…? Pedantic as the last time too. Z-man got the basics correct and most importantly the concepts that he wished to impart using the (incorrect specific) analogy. You did too, John, but your insight was not important to anyone but yourself (esteem). As to an IQ of 122, that would put Z-man solidly into the upper 10% of individuals, which should be more than enough to handle trolling from folk like you.

John, thanks for playing, see you tomorrow.

Exile
Exile
Member
Reply to  John Gritt
1 year ago

Gamma-pedantry is ghey. Have a nice month, sperg.

Lance E
Member
1 year ago

While I share your opinions on big social brands, most of the public doesn’t. Apple and Google/YouTube are still insanely popular brands. They may be in decline, but to say that Apple is “seen” (by whom?) as a “Chinese electronics company run by an angry homosexual” is fantasy, wishful thinking. Almost nobody sees it that way, and the collective voice of the entire dissident sphere isn’t loud enough to meme that into reality. I’m not intending to blackpill, but the dissident thinkers need to deal with reality. Huffing one’s own farts will only lead to failing tactics and nonsensical strategies.… Read more »

Macumazahn
Macumazahn
1 year ago

From “I’m not entirely sure I am cut out to be a media whore” to “If you like living off the sweat of others” in just seven short weeks.
Disappointing. Z-Man, I thought better of you.

Pimpkin\'s nephew
Pimpkin\'s nephew
Reply to  Macumazahn
1 year ago

I hate to say it, but you make a point. The monetization of the Z-man is noted, with its associated ‘fluidity of principle’. I’m still sending him a soiled twenty, though.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

I’m mulling it over while continuing my mite, I thought the “help me get out of Lagos” was a big error. I see it’s been dropped.
Let’s give him some time it’s early days.

Now that he’s monetizing, the fuckups that be will be after him so I hope he’s got the server/host bases covered.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Pimpkin\'s nephew
1 year ago

I’m mulling it over though still sending my monthly mite.
His “pay for me to flee Lagos: was dumb beyond belief.
But it’s early days and I’m sure I’d have not done better,

Monsieur le Baron
Reply to  Macumazahn
1 year ago

It’s comic hyperbole.

Frip
Member
Reply to  Monsieur le Baron
1 year ago

Unsure if some of you are joking. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter how someone “comes across” when asking for funding. (Not an easy thing to ask for.) Just consider the mental and spiritual fulfillment we gain from our top polemicists in this time. The sheer joy of the experience on a DAILY basis. Simple equation: What is that worth to you?

Sextus Empiricus
Sextus Empiricus
1 year ago

“A decade ago, Apple was a cool brand run by an equally cool genius who liked wearing black turtlenecks. Now it is seen as a Chinese electronics company run by an angry homosexual.“

An angry self-righteous homosexual.

Problem with Apple is that the only alternative is Android/Google, queen of customer surveillance.

trackback
1 year ago

[…] The solution to the problem was the oldest of solutions. Peaceful separation allowed everyone to have a forum, but it reduced the incentives for the disruptive. Going into the forum of a rival group, for example, and posting a bunch of troll-bait, did not provide the same dopamine rush to the troll as it did on a public forum. There was no one around to see it and cheer it. It was like being a graffiti artist in a blind community. These trolling efforts were quietly removed and the community could easily ignore them. That is what will happen… Read more »

Xenophon2020
Member
1 year ago

I miss alt.pavetheearth. Yellow double stripes around the equator or not?