Conventionally Speaking

Political conventions are probably the dumbest aspect of American politics, especially in the modern technological era. Half a century ago, they still made some sense from a logistical perspective. Getting all the national and local players together in the same physical place was the only way to maintain the network. It was also a television event that gave the party a chance to make their pitch. They also brought in the donors for the grip and grin sessions that seem to work on rich people.

Today, the old-style convention looks increasingly like a pointless relic. The only people who need to meet in person these days to talk politics are dissidents and that’s because of the pogroms against white activists. The people in charge can avail themselves to all the modern technology of the day. As far as a television event, the convention looks ridiculous to most modern people. It’s like watching a movie from the 1970’s, where people are using pay phones and wearing suits on airplanes.

The parties stick with them mostly because politics is a risk-adverse game. These days, every campaign has pollsters and consultants telling the campaign what to do. Inevitably, they say the same things over and over, as that is the low risk strategy for the consultants and pollsters. If the campaign does the normal stuff and fails, the candidate gets the blame. If it succeeds, then it proves the tried and true methods work. That’s why the parties stick with convention format.

As silly as it all is, the convention does offer some insights into what is happening behind the scenes of the party. That was clear on day one of the Democratic virtual convention now in day three. The people hired to produce it were not creative wiz-kids given the challenge of creating the first virtual convention. Instead, they hired people who make corporate videos and infomercials. Anyone who has had to consume corporate video saw the fingerprints on day one.

That tells us the people running the DNC and the Biden campaign are just as old in their thinking as the people running the party. Joe Biden (77), Nancy Pelosi (80) and Chuck Schumer (69) hit middle age before the typical voter was born. They were set in their ways before the first ISP came into operation. These are analog people living in a digital age, by avoiding anything new and different. This virtual convention was made for people who put their face right up to the screen in a Zoom session.

Thus far, the convention tells us that there is a serious rift between the young woke crowd and the old guard. The choice of speakers to highlight is the tell. They featured the genocidal Andrew Cuomo and Obama’s Wookie on the first night. They gave Bernie Sanders a few minutes and a canned speech. The Bernie wing is not happy, which is why they are rioting in their strongholds, so using the first night to remind them who is still in charge of the party was a message.

Maybe the most amusing part of the show thus far was the angry guy routine done by Andrew Cuomo. He did his thing sitting at a desk, like a corporate CEO addressing the company by video conference after a big round of layoffs. The point was to be inspirational in a tough time, but instead it was angry and bitter. The only thing missing was a threat that if morale did not pick up, the beatings would continue. Cuomo is the argument in favor of sending the sons of politicians into exile.

It’s also clear the party bosses don’t understand what they have unleashed with the anti-white rhetoric. They did the old corporate diversity crap on the first night, but it was actually worse than the corporate diversity training videos. It did not address anything that has been happening for the last few months. The use of the Buffalo Springfield song would have gone over well with the 70-plus crowd, but by that point it was well past lights out in the nation’s rest homes.

Another indication of the general detachment from reality is the use of Republican turncoats in this convention. The idea is to use these faithless finks to show undecideds that even the Republicans are abandoning their man. Most people unsure about voting for Trump already hate the GOP. That’s why they tend to sit out elections. Trotting out Colin Powell and John Kasich just reminds them that they hate the same people who hate Donald Trump. It has the opposite of the intended effect.

Another insight that can be gleaned from this thing is the party is deeply worried by the overall lack of enthusiasm for their guy. The first night drew roughly half the audience they drew in 2016. The party then ordered their media organs to bump the numbers up in subsequent stories. In this age of lies, we can expect the media to claim the Biden speech was watched by every human on earth, but the reality is this thing and his campaign are not all that interesting to people.

Now, it should be pointed out that the lock downs have broken all the normal patterns of behavior with regards to media consumption. The sports leagues are experiencing their bad television numbers. People working at home are no longer talking about sports and TV shows with co-workers. There are no live audiences, so the social proof has been removed from sports. This convention may be suffering from the same thing. People are disconnecting from mass media due to the lock downs.

Putting that aside, what comes through in this convention is that conventional politics has reached the end of the road. The Democrats will soon be the brown party and their cries of racism will sound even more absurd than they do today. Whatever replaces the Republicans will be the white party and calls for constitutional principles will sound as absurd as the whining about white privilege. This convention and its reliance on 50-year old pop culture references is the end of the end.

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David Wright
Member
2 months ago

Seems like a farewell tour for the old sixties radicals. The young woke crowd is standing by with pillows.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

It happens now. Early Boomers cling to positions of authority until the Millennials force the geezers out of the way. That’s two malignant generations in charge of everything. Zoomers will have to elbow the Millennials out of the way eventually, too.

Bruno the Arrogant
Bruno the Arrogant
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Which probably goes a long way in explaining why the positions of authority are still occupied by aging boomers. A more astute generation would have figured out how to depose them long, long ago.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Bruno the Arrogant
2 months ago

thanks to the overall fecklessness of young people, my own career was extended by 10+ years! thanks, fuck wads, I didn’t even have to be at 50% of my peak to out work you nimrods 😛

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

I am not known for going out of my way to be kind and gentle to idiots online, but you certainly have me beat, oh great big man. Your purported machismo and constantly shouted opinions and abilities scream “entitled insecure boomer!” And the teengirl emoticon beautifully caps it all off.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  3g4me
2 months ago

i pay the kid who details my car, more than you earn in a week. suck on them lemons, loser.

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

That’s so funny! I’m 75, even older than the oldest boomer. I tease my several months’ younger husband, saying I am ONE President (FDR) older than he. A real line drawn in the sand.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Bruno the Arrogant
2 months ago

The youngest Boomers are 56 or so.

They’re going to be with us for a while.

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

Assuming the left doesnt put you boomers in box cars and the right doesnt go Night of the Pillows, sure. 4,200 boomers pass on to the Next Woodstock every day, man.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Educated.redneck
2 months ago

I’m not a Boomer.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Educated.redneck
2 months ago

good. most of the old boomers are boring. i’m one of the few interesting boomers.

MikeCLT
MikeCLT
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

These youngest boomers really aren’t boomers in the sense of the boomers who were born in the 40s-50s. They came into adulthood during Reagan’s first term.

Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

Those younger kids ruined their brains with drugs. The older boomers were almost out of college when drugs became big and were fortunate to grow up in a more “intelligent” era. Have seen this in my family. Youngest bro’ born in 1954 — got lots of goodies, trips, camps that the older ones never dreamed of — and is majorly effed-up.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Dr. Dre
2 months ago

it’s like when there are multiple chicks in a nest, and oops! little tweety “fell” out and died.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

It is hard to exercise authority and leadership when someone is more concerned about peer pressure than performance. The Boomers’ self-absorption actually helped them exercise authority. Gen X’ers could fill those roles but will be frozen out by people now in their late Sixties and then passed over for people now in their Thirties.

Sandmich
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Now that you mention it, at my medium sized company all but a handful of the retired boomer slots were filled with “kids” in their mid twenties. They seem to do okay I suppose. A large part of that is logistics, if they spend months training someone who’s in their early 40s they know they could be looking at having to do it all over again in 10 or so years.

Kentucky Headhunter
Kentucky Headhunter
Reply to  Sandmich
2 months ago

More likely they can pay someone in their 20’s 3/5s of what someone in their 40’s would ask for.
40 yo people routinely die at 50 now? 50 yo people are constantly looking to bolt to new companies to start over?

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Between Gen X and millennials, the millennials are clearly naive followers. They need to be led. There’s zero inclination to buck the system, and this is always good for promotions. A Gen Xer would work for Satan and know he’s Satan. The millennial wouldn’t have a clue, even if he walked past a pentagram on the floor with lit candles. Zero critical thinking skills. Gen Xers are better striking out on their own, when they can.

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 months ago

Eh. Like boomers, and like every cohort since we tamed fire, only about 5 pct think logically and dialecticly, sufficient to use critical thinking skills. The idea that critical thinking is “taught in college” rather than an inborn, genetically determined talent brought to fruition in college is another egalitarian lie of our Enemy.

Chad Hayden
Chad Hayden
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 months ago

Great point JR.

To anyone who reads this and has children: it isn’t enough for boys to lift weights anymore. You need to put them into a contact sport, preferably boxing or MMA.This is a MUST and will reap untold benefits for their lives. Even football won’t do the trick as it seems like a monkey game to smart kids.
Rugby and wrestling also good options but taking a punch is irreplaceable.

Last edited 2 months ago by Chad Hayden
Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Chad Hayden
2 months ago

excellent point. nothing teaches you to keep your hands up better than a kick in the face 🙂

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Yeah, that was always obvious in my corporate career. The people ahead of us would die in their jobs.

You’re a lot smarter than me. It took me at least 10 years to realize this.

Heck, if I were really smart I’d have dropped out of undergrad and cleaned up during the dotcom boom.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

you should have killed us when you had a chance.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I was recently on a flight that had two millennial pilots and a millennial cabin crew. I was praying the entire time that the redundant backups kept the plane flying…a metaphor for the country.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 months ago

Were any of them white?

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 months ago

was one of the pilot’s last name “Howser”?

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I’m a late Xer and I walked out on an utterly bizarre late Millennial supervisor around Thanksgiving last year.

I never should have taken that role because this guy had bizarre personal characteristics.

The pompador haircut, problem glasses, forced deep tone of voice, tattoos, working 80+ hour weeks tracking towards burnout, limping around the office because he was physically damaging himself during his bike workouts, intensely criticism of petty things like adjective choice, and a super creepy catchphrase eventually made me realize life is too GD short.

Maus
Maus
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

OK, I’ll bite. What was the creepy catchphrase? The rest of it sounds like every millenial male I’ve come across (other than complete soibois).

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Maus
2 months ago

The guy constantly tried to reassure me he was not a micromanager by saying something like,

“I’m not trying to put my hands in your shorts.”

Or

“Don’t feel like I’m trying to put my hands in your shorts.”

Just no.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

If I had a dollar for every millennial I’ve dealt with like this.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

shit, that guy was in love with you!

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

that sounds like a run of the mill Type A personality. hey Zman, I just realized that term isn’t used any longer. do you remember it being bandied about to describe ahols in the office?

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Tsk tsk Z. Spell checker letting stuff get buy ewe. Too bad you don’t have a sharp secretary from the really old days, before even our times 🙂

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

That lack of sobermindedness was part of my redpilling; my generation is going to send people to camps, its just a who/whom thing now.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

These woke POC’s lack the IQ and talent to run much of anything.

Import the Third World, become the Third World.

Amwolf
Amwolf
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

Lothrop Stoddard’s The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy accurately predicted this 100 years ago.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Amwolf
2 months ago

Thanks, just pulled a copy from one of the big PDF sites.

Amwolf
Amwolf
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

You’re welcome. It’s an outstanding book and Stoddard was well ahead of his time. I also recommend Into the Darkness and Lonely America.

A couple of recommendations that examine the aftermath of importing the Third World into Europe include Douglas Murray’s Strange Death of Europe and Clare Ellis’ The Blackening of Europe: Ideologies & International Developments.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

A new (“to me”) insight: half a century of dumbing down American education system has “prepared” White America to be at a closer intellectual capacity to the third world filth we’ve been importing for roughly the same time. 🙁

Last edited 2 months ago by Ben the Layabout
Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

The destruction of education is a key component of destroying civilization. What it all comes down to is that blacks cannot be elevated to the level of civilization. For that reason, civilization must be reduced to savagery. Only in a savage environment can blacks be equal to whites.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I wonder what millennials will do with power. Lefties rage against boomers, righties patiently submit and wait their turn. How does that change when boomers are out of power?

sentry
sentry
Reply to  Paintersforms
2 months ago

A good portion of young gen is more bitter cause they experienced feminist courts & minorities hurting them in some way or thee other.
Boomers were privileged cause their lives were safe & soft.
That’s the main difference.

There’s a reason youtube is filled with popular sjw mockers, these guys are mostly watched by regular teens that have dissociated from current world politics. This is how they view the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGcuAHun9Dg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOYOLuVV0UY
Then there’s mgtows who hate whores & blame current status on liberals & then there’s east european migrants who don’t tolerate getting bullied by races colored like shit.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

I was born in the 80s, so I get it. I’m just wondering what we do when there’s no more excuse for underachieving. Didn’t create the mess, but we’ll have to stop being part of it and start cleaning up, or we cease to be.

David Wright
Member
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

Boomers did not have it safe and soft. They had opportunities. They made their children or grandchildren lives safe and soft.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  David Wright
2 months ago

…and took the opportunities. Life isn’t easy.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Paintersforms
2 months ago

greatest gen: willing to plant a tree

boomer: willing to reach up to a lower branch and pick the fruit

gen x: whines that no one cares if they have fruit; does not get any

gen z: accidentally kills the tree; blames a boomer

millenial: is fruit

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  David Wright
2 months ago

Excluding the Vietnam war categorically, Boomer lives weren’t that dangerous compared to previous generations and they had the highest wages as percent GDP in US history. Instead of building with that, having strong families, the went with a low TFR (1.8 kids per household) and indulged themselves, On top of that, they did nothing to prevent any of the innumerable problems we now suffer from. Now sure a fair bit of this is the fault on the Silent Gen Ronald Reagan, easy divorce, signing the 86 “we give up” immigration bill and getting rid of forced retirement among other things… Read more »

Official Bologna Tester
Official Bologna Tester
Reply to  abprosper
2 months ago

I am a Boomer, and let me tell you something. If your not a Boomer your missing out, because this stuff is thoroughly good.

comment image

Last edited 2 months ago by Official Bologna Tester
Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Official Bologna Tester
2 months ago

Is that his 2nd or 3rd trophy wife?

Official Bologna Tester
Official Bologna Tester
Reply to  Paintersforms
2 months ago

Paintersforms said: “Is that his 2nd or 3rd trophy wife?”

One does what one can.

comment image

Is that sobbing I hear ?

Last edited 2 months ago by Official Bologna Tester
Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Official Bologna Tester
2 months ago

That’s as gross as hepatitis.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Paintersforms
2 months ago

Number 2, but barely hanging on. Had a little work done. He’s already cheating with #3. He manages female Oxycontin reps for Purdue. Teaches them to shove their tits in doctors faces.

Official Bologna Tester
Official Bologna Tester
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 months ago

Bitterness and resentment is the rocket fuel that will propel the 21st century smack into the immovable object of oblivion. Enjoy!

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Official Bologna Tester
2 months ago

Love and healing already did the job.

The Right Doctor
The Right Doctor
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 months ago

Speaking as a doctor of forty years’ experience, I can attest that the shoving of tits by pharm reps into doctors’ faces is a lost art.

Maus
Maus
Reply to  Official Bologna Tester
2 months ago

There’s something atavistic about all this intergenerational angst. It’s like the ape scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey when stripped of the generational cultural markers. Always got to remember that biology > culture > politics/economy. We are hardwired tribal in the meat.

Official Bologna Tester
Official Bologna Tester
Reply to  Maus
2 months ago

Ok.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Maus
2 months ago

I find all this inter-generational smack profoundly boring. In point of fact there’s not a generation alive that’s worth a dam’. We’re all just varying shades of awful.

My Comment
Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
2 months ago

Agree. As a boomer I am constantly amazed at the idea that we inherited a white utopia. The silent generation gave us most of the things that people hate about us such as mass immigration and feminism. We, of course, let it get worse just as each following generation has let things deteriorate even more.

But none of that really matters. Most whites have been against the dreadful charges that have taken place but, as we can see with Trump, what we want doesn’t matter.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Maus
2 months ago

Peel back the veneer of civilization and it’s the old silverback trying to fend off the young challenger.

Replace that veneer, and it’s sport. All in good fun. Just a bunch of shit talking.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Official Bologna Tester
2 months ago

So what happened with you then that you’re broke and broken…

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  abprosper
2 months ago

Do we have child # 3 or the new house with the bonus room upstairs? The bonus room of course! And let’s fill it with Pepto Bismol colored velour furniture. And oak baby! Lots of oak.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  David Wright
2 months ago

Wrong. Boomers were always soft. They were given opportunities. And it shows today. Even when they were binging coke in ’79 and driving their girlfriend to the abortion clinic, they were soft.

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

Yup. Millenials have felt the leftist boot on their face, or have put on the boot. Affirmative action in school admissions is a huge red pill for many of us Millenials. My 1st choice post secondary school had 2 rates of admissions for a male of my qualifications: 2-5% if white, 95-100% if black. Gee, seems like the “systemic racism” i hear about was inverted, I wonder what else is wrong with the Narrative. Then the jobs market where positions and promotions are based on whats between your legs instead of between your ears, and pretty soon you are on… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Educated.redneck
2 months ago

It was a faustian bargain for people our age. Lefty took it, righty didn’t. Lefty riding high for now, until the devil gets his due.

I didn’t take the bargain. Figured it would be better to struggle in youth and have the chance to succeed in middle age instead of losing all in the reckoning. We’ll see if it was a good bet.

Amwolf
Amwolf
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

“A good portion of young gen is more bitter cause they experienced feminist courts & minorities hurting them in some way or thee other.”

I’m a late Gen Xer and I can relate to both. I’ve been burned in family [kangaroo] court and had significant run-ins with a couple of minorities, with one of them being heavily involved in the aforementioned kangaroo court. Bitterness is an understatement in this case; these red-pilled/black-pilled experiences turned me hard right from my former associations in the Civic Nationalist and Paleolibertarian camps.

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  Paintersforms
2 months ago

See above: camps. Just “who-whom” left to decide.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Wow. I was just about to write this almost exactly as stated.

sentry
sentry
Reply to  David Wright
2 months ago

Woodstock was giant ritual marking transition from christian era to age of aquarius.
Jesus was not good enough for those fuckers, they wanted satan’s c**c in their asses.
That’s when female empowerment, homo tolerance & diverse vibrancy was presented as a strength, resulting in current clown world.

Last edited 2 months ago by sentry
Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

The people I knew who went to Woodstock and events like that, just wanted to get stoned and find easy pussy. Whatever the back of the rock album said, they mindlessly repeated. That was the way to get the wimmin.

Last edited 2 months ago by Epaminondas
Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Epaminondas
2 months ago

hippy womyns. zman, i bet most of your young audience have never experienced a woman with a full pelt (or at all, for that matter).

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

Armenian chicks in 70s hiphuggers.

She unzips, and that pelt springs like it’s attacking.

“Warning: Armenian guard pelts”

Last edited 2 months ago by Alzaebo
Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

Can’t say that I have. Frankly, when looking forward to dining on a bearded clam, I prefer to not need a machette and a flashlight in the search 😀

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

Egads. Too much information

(Ok, the difference between a clitoris and a golf ball?
A man will search half an hour…
For a golf ball)

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

No likey beaver pelt.

sentry
sentry
Reply to  Epaminondas
2 months ago

I know, but I don’t care about their intentions, I care about results of their actions, don’t think God cares either, any faustian reasoning for indulging in sin leads to Hell, doesn’t matter how good their intentions were.

Last edited 2 months ago by sentry
Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Epaminondas
2 months ago

Yesterday it was the hippie, today it’s the soy boy cuck. Like a bunch of dogs begging for a treat. No wonder the man-hating.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

Since you bring up Jesus, all I will say is that, like many great men or ideals, how his so-called followers acted is quite different from the Christ described in the Bible. Somethng about telling a tree by the fruit it makes….?
If I can substitute “traditional values” for “Jesus” in your post, I agree with it overall.
Alas, we live in an age where nearly all those in power sell us thorn bushes and insist it will be a crop of figs, just have faith and patience!

Last edited 2 months ago by Ben the Layabout
Durendal
Durendal
2 months ago

National Justice Party

nationaljusticeparty.com

Enoch, Striker, Hovater,Ahab and Smasher are starting a political party.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

I wonder if they’ll do better or worse than the American Freedom Party. Or even reach Lyndon LaRouche levels of support. We’ll see!

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  Marko
2 months ago

Hopefully they will be able to create a true third option.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

I don’t mean to be so dismissive. I just hope they don’t get spergy, and appeal to more than just people who are J-woke

Bruno the Arrogant
Bruno the Arrogant
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I suppose that’s the most diplomatic way to put it.

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Well, every success story’s prior projects failed until that one that worked. More power to them, dont punch right.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Educated.redneck
2 months ago

“Don’t punch Right” gave us Christopher Cantwell and the Cuckbox

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Heh.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

It almost certainly will.
That said there are almost certainly no political solutions anyway and now is the time of LARPING so why not?

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  abprosper
2 months ago

I’d prefer those on our side create a partionist movement.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
2 months ago

Me too. There is a sense of that happening in the US now. We see it when Antifa goes to the non screwed parts of rural America.
Its not easy though our states are rather mixed and we don’t have a clear alternate ideology to what is out there.
Now neither does the Left but to paraphrase the Big Lebowski “Say what you want about the Woke, it least its an ethos, sort of.”

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  abprosper
2 months ago

You know, abp, I think we do have a clear ideology. In fact, it may be a bit TOO clear. I think our problem is that the vast majority of us are afraid to go out on a limb and try to start a movement that could easily get us de-personed. I also think few if any of us have done the hard work of putting a plan of action together. We know what needs to be done, but few know confidently how to do it.

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  Marko
2 months ago

We shall see. Im hopefully because at least they are trying. There are lots dissidents and millions of normies very close to us. I suggest watching there promotional video. Supposedly Enochs speech from the kick off event will get released later today.

whitney
Member
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

It’s not happening. You want to build but this is the time for smashing so that your grandchildren will have a chance to build. We’re entering a nomadic phase because every time you put down roots the brigands will show up to rip them up. It won’t last forever but depending on your age it will probably outlast you

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  whitney
2 months ago

I’m more hopeful than you it seems.

whitney
Member
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Well it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been called the voice of doom.

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  whitney
2 months ago

You know the old saying about the man in the arena. Well I’d rather be in the arena than those cold and timid souls who complain and yet wo der why nothing happens.

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Agreed but should we dismiss all others because they might be like Sargon or Spencer? I hear lots of naysayers but no actual solutions or real world changes. I’m getting a very strong gadfly vibe.

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

I hear lots of naysayers but no actual solutions or real world changes.  Because you already have a preconceived notion of what a “solution” and “victory” looks like so you are myopic AF. There are solutions posited here all the time if you take the time to read between the lines. Most involve subterfuge and positioning which is -exactly- what needs to be happening at this stage of things. Pro Tip: They don’t involve a head on confrontation “in the arena” with the gov’t backed lefty mob. If however, you’d like to test your theory, go pick a fight in… Read more »

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  Apex Predator
2 months ago

You sound like a woman standing on her porch yelling at the neighbor kids.

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

When you’ve put even an ounce of your ass on the line and in the risk I’ve put myself in, come talk to me. Otherwise keep tapping away keyboard warrior. If we were not ‘monitored’ I’d link you to my rap sheet so you can see my bonafides and I can prove myself to an internet warlord. But you run your f-cking mouth with no experience probably having no minorities in your AO or gotten into a verbal much less physical confrontation. Walk on son, you are too short for this ride.

Last edited 2 months ago by Apex Predator
Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Apex Predator
2 months ago

As an aside, Apex, let me thank you for the warning. Talking to black drivers in Philly, I could tell they were looking for a good reason to punch me in the head, since that’s “discourse” in their world. I’m going straight up Marine stiff, “yes sir no ma’am I don’t know anything about that, excuse me”. Fudge the conversation, now I wonder if I should even go back there. Those 1630s streets in Northwest are a nightmare, and some ditz might get ideas. I felt safer in Compton, Newark, Gary, Bronx, or southside Chicago. Goshdam Philly has a Camden… Read more »

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

if there are better people or groups out there show me them? I’m not wedded to Enoch or his crew but someone has to try.

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

So we wait until the great white savior descends from on high?

Sevier
Sevier
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I’d like to say that I wish them the best. If it offers them legal protections, I’m happy for that. If it causes the left to shriek about a pro-white platform, I’m happy. If it causes a national conversation and gets curious people to start looking for alternative media, I’m happy. If it makes people re-consider what “acceptable” political discourse is, and what they can talk about or demand, that’s a win. If it means that republicans get pulled rightward trying to prevent voters defecting, I’m happy. If it forces the government and media to take off the mask and… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Sevier
2 months ago

Huzzah, Sevier!

Every tool in the toolbox.
Who dares, wins.

Some are calling Nat.Justice a fed honeypot, but I see them more as a muslim-style probe.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 months ago

Don’t overlook Fifth Column opporunities. To be able to operate from cover, perhaps even inside the enemy lines, must not be discounted. This is especially a good option for those who must keep a respectable front for career, social or other reasons. Depending upon what you have planned of course, weigh the risks, because if the enemy finds you out they will be merciless. Finally, this is an appealing option to those who — not without reason — fear the risks of joining any type of organization. When the time comes to plug those storm sewers or burn the cell… Read more »

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

One man is bashing himself in the head with a hammer. Another man comes along and says..

“…why are you bashing yourself in the head with that hammer?”

“Because it feels so good when I stop.”

CAPT S
CAPT S
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

At this point stop looking for national solutions; work at the neighborhood level. Guaranteed you have like-minded neighbors … work together. Build something – start a homeschool co-op, a Boy Scout alternative, a tradesman guild … have 6+ kids and raise them to be great Americans – do something tangible. Stop looking for someone to deliver solutions … make solutions happen.

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

As dissidents we simply do not have the power to stand on our own in the political arena yet. That arena will have to take on more damage and that damage is still coming.
Best to just wait it out. Entering the political arena right now as a political party will just get 10,000 woke media outlets spewing vile and framing your picture in front of a Nazi flag.

Last edited 2 months ago by G Lordon Giddy
The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
2 months ago

As dissidents we simply do not have the power to stand on our own in the political arena yet.

This is exactly it.

We have yet to reach a critical mass of people who realize that our people do have a collective identity and collective interests.

This is why the people who think we should focus on local efforts in our communities are also correct.

Grassroots is the only way in short term.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

Both. This is a territorial war in both the Internet and the real estate.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
2 months ago

They are drawing fire.
During an election season.

Will the patriots hear the gunshots, and cower, or say about the martyrs, “This lunacy stops when we make it stop”

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 months ago

Lots of patriots in small towns like Klamath , Colorado City and Fort Collins have already done that. Run Antifa out of town on a rail. A guy in Austin legally shot one dead. Its just gets little coverage. Thing is its strictly defense and our side and related sides don’t have a reason or means to take offensive action in scale. Yet. This leave Antifa to act at leisure in Blue cities which have sympathetic leaders. This is destructive but our side in many ways would be happy to be rid of larger cities entirely and as we want… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  abprosper
2 months ago

“Antifa to act at leisure in Blue cities which have sympathetic leaders”.
What better location to highlight both this cancer on civilization and those who enable it?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I have to agree with you on that note. I’ll give an example; Back in ’07 I was getting coffee at a local joint and there was a Marine Major on line with me. He struck up a conversation with me about the current state of affairs (I’m former Army) with the service and he made mention of the fact that they can’t get the new kids to do anything and he also makes mention of the fact that he can’t get any of them to pass a background check to qualify for any meaningful security clearance. I laugh because… Read more »

skeptic16
skeptic16
Member
Reply to  Steve
2 months ago

I used to frequently fly into the Columbia SC airport for business trips. Often, there were several army inductees headed to Fort Jackson. They looked like kids from the audio visual club. I could probably do better in basic training than most of them and I was in my late 50s at the time. I couldn’t imagine trusting my life to these boys and girls. If ever I had a chance to sit with them on the plane, I would have tried to talk them into not serving. Unfortunately, they were kept together and away from the civilians.

Federalist
Federalist
Reply to  skeptic16
2 months ago

A lot of these guys are good people. They’re our people. They are very young and mostly trying to fulfill a duty and do something good. Because of the system that we have, they may enlist because they need a job with good benefits or for the GI Bill.
The issue is not really with these enlistees. It’s that this government and its military is not worthy of these kids. They’re being taken advantage of.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Federalist
2 months ago

They aren’t ubermensch, yet they put all they got on the line.

They’re doing something, anything, gods bless ’em.

Last edited 2 months ago by Alzaebo
Rob 70
Reply to  Federalist
2 months ago

Kids that enlist nowadays enlist because their only other option is fast food or a low paying warehouse gig. Some are in it for the GI Bill, but most are not.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  skeptic16
2 months ago

How strong do you have to be to operate a drone?

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Steve
2 months ago

Well said. I’m a peacetime vet and I wasn’t overly impressed (or impressive, to be honest!) in the 1980s. Whatever its ideological failings, the military today has a hell of a time finding qualified people.In the first place, the vast majority of young people have no interest in the services, so part of your wish came true. Google “too stupid for military” and you get about 84 million hits 🙁 In sum: of the prime recruiting herd (18-26), about 70% don’t meet basic critera. About 50% too fat/health issues, 20% too stupid, and 10% too criminal (usually drugs). Link: https://observer.com/2018/08/pentagon-most-americans-are-too-fat-stupid-to-enlist-in-the-military/… Read more »

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Steve
2 months ago

Excellent story. And exactly the point I’ve tried to make here a number of times: when you’re arguing out your position with somebody – in the context of making progress you’re not necessarily trying to convince that person – you’re trying to convince the people who are listening in on the argument.

This works both in person – and in the internet space on forums and social media. There’s an awful lot of people who just read – and never comment or post.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Steve
2 months ago

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

Federalist
Federalist
Reply to  Steve
2 months ago

…no parent of European descent who cares about their family should ever willingly sacrifice their children to a government that despises them.

This is how I feel but could not have said as eloquently as you have. As prior service, I would never want my sons to enlist.

MikeCLT
MikeCLT
Reply to  Steve
2 months ago

 It seems that the only time that politicians speak of us whites in favorable terms is when they’re placing a flag over the coffins of our children.”

There is more wisdom in this observation than in 10,000 volumes of Conservatism Inc. commentary.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Now is the time of LARPING , enjoy it.
After that comes “We are all Dirlewanger’s now”

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

What does everyone think of Mark Collett, Laura Towler and their Patriotic Alternative group in England? Recently I saw that they hung White Lives Matter banners all over the country. It seems that they’re “in the arena.” I’m undecided if that’s the best strategy or not.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Wolf Barney
2 months ago

Ain’t nobody else saying it.
I cheer them loudly.

tarstarkas
tarstarkas
Reply to  Wolf Barney
2 months ago

Mark Collett has no judgement. There is no doubt that he is charming when he wants to be, but he does really dumb things.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

As the St Louis couple learned comes a point in which you can’t hide and the fight will come to you. Even a half assed organization is better than nothing and if it takes playing in the arena to get it, so be it. However our side still thinks its freedom fighters especially our most militant wing, the WRSA militant Right types. Giving our enemies freedom is what got us into this mess and until we realize that our job is take away the legality of certain choices and take away freedom putting our boots on their necks till we… Read more »

whitney
Member
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Mee-oow!

CAPT S
CAPT S
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

You seem to be saying the only option is to walk into the arena and courageously sacrifice ourselves … because Rome and the Emperor are worthy. But listen to the others here … they’re saying “let’s blow up the f’ing arena.” Nothing cold and timid about changing the loser paradigm. TR would’ve understood that.

Last edited 2 months ago by CAPT S
jimmy
jimmy
Reply to  whitney
2 months ago

Mr dear Mr. Doom, T.S. Eliot > Quotes > Quotable Quotecomment image
“We shall not cease from explorationAnd the end of all our exploringWill be to arrive where we startedAnd know the place for the first time.Through the unknown, remembered gateWhen the last of earth left to discoverIs that which was the beginning;At the source of the longest riverThe voice of the hidden waterfallAnd the children in the apple-treeNot known, because not looked forBut heard, half-heard, in the stillnessBetween two waves of the sea.”
― T.S. Eliot, Four Quartets

tarstarkas
tarstarkas
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Where? I can’t wait to see this….

De Ferrers
De Ferrers
Reply to  Marko
2 months ago

Their entire act is spergy. Beyond shows on their network they aren’t on, its all J-Q all the time, forever, and that explains everything. When they appear off platform, its the kill stream which is hosted by a pill poping degenerate that posts revenge porn videos of his almost underage girlfriends. You should be dismissive, this entire thing is a dumb larp for internet weridos.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Marko
2 months ago

If nothing else, it will generate some entertaining clips from Nick Fuentes’ show

ronehjr
ronehjr
Reply to  MemeWarVet
2 months ago

And a cat boy shall lead them. Good luck with that.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Marko
2 months ago

I hope I may insert an anecdote that everyone except Sentry is bound to like. In the 1980s, my paents and I were legal residents of a rural
[insert spittoon sound effect]
county in VA. In one Presidential election, the entire county recorded exactly three votes for LaRouche. My family was traditionally Republican but that year we did a protest vote. 🙂 I can’t remember which election, but the Republican choice must’ve been really bad if my “Greatest Generation” parents wouldn’t vote for him.

CAPT S
CAPT S
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

If it was the 80s then my guess for GOP pantywaist would be Bush the Elder in 1988. He was sold as a great hero – WW2 aviator, Reagan VP, etc – but he was establishment globalist through and through. Your folks probably saw through the facade. It was 4 years later that many of my age bracket went for Ross Perot.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  CAPT S
2 months ago

Yes, you’re likely right. For me the typical third-party weenie, LaRouche was just a varation on whomever the Libertarians were pimping that year 😀

De Ferrers
De Ferrers
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Internet sperg turned politician has worked so well in the past. See e.g. Sargon of Akkad/Carl Benjamin and his great UKIP run.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  De Ferrers
2 months ago

Well….. Loomer won the Republican primary.

MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Chet Rollins
2 months ago

The whole world sure did memory hole that incident with her tires, huh?

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
2 months ago

Loomer has special powers.

Natarnsco
Member
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Another political party…
We aren’t voting our way out of this.

Last edited 2 months ago by Natarnsco
Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Natarnsco
2 months ago

Ballot box, jury box, cartridge box 🙂

skeptic16
skeptic16
Member
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

This is like campaigning for president of the Austro-Hungarian empire. In 10 years or less, the US will either be some authoritarian dystopia or will have broken apart.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  skeptic16
2 months ago

“We’re entering a nomadic phase”

This is accurate, something to be worked with.

I’m going to think deeply on this.

The startling fact of modernity is mobility- we’ve never had such mobility, and our assailants have it too.

Maybe our deep instincts- millions of years as hunter/gatherers- will aid us in our strange new world.

Last edited 2 months ago by Alzaebo
gwithian
gwithian
Reply to  skeptic16
2 months ago

How does one enter the race?
I don’t speak Austro-Hungarian but I ‘ve always admired those Aussie rules football players.
I mean there’s obviously more to their country than sports but to me it just illustrates the muscular dynamism of that fine country.
I don’t see my role so much as leader but more as a steward for both the people and their fine culture.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  gwithian
2 months ago

Oz is beaten only by New Zealand in the degree that they’ve laid down for the fascist government fatwahs about WuFlu.
Not a testicle among them.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  skeptic16
2 months ago

True!

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Totally not a fed honeypot, of course.

Vegetius
Vegetius
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

If it’s a gag, I support them.

If it’s what the man called “unintentional self-parody”, not so much.

Either way: poor Sven.

Epaminondas
Member
2 months ago

It used to be interesting to watch the intra-party squabbles back in the sixties/seventies. Back then, cultural issues were being monopolized by the left wings of both parties, though Nixon managed to scam his way to victory by suggesting Southerners were right to avoid the radical policies of the Democrats. The GOP has been scamming all of us ever since, convention after convention. Covid-19 has mercifully put all this to rest so we can get down to the real issues of “who, whom”. Tip of the hat to the Trump team who were first to recognize that this would be… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Epaminondas
2 months ago

One commentator stated how simply aghast he was that the party in control of basically all media could create such a hopelessly tone-deaf out-of-date debacle like the Democractic Convention.
The ZMan’s observation that they gave the reins to people making corporate videos is spot on. Those are almost universally run by incompetents businesses can hire on the cheap or recent college grads desperate for any job.

Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
2 months ago

I knew quite a few of these types. They are more clueless than you think.

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
2 months ago

“Whatever replaces the Republicans will be the white party and calls for constitutional principles will sound as absurd as the whining about white privilege.”
—————————
I am conflicted about this. I’m Canadian, and I can tell you – I would give my eye teeth for an electoral college and your Constitution – and the national will to enforce them. That constitution of yours is a great document, and enforcing it and protecting it should be a core goal of the dissidents, I would think?

Durendal
Durendal
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

The constitution sounds great until our politicians and courts either ignore it or use it as a weapon.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

you sure are a mopey fukk. why not hang yourself today?

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

Go prance around Chicago and Manhattan in your magatard hat and chaps, tough guy. Bonus points for nipple rings.

Last edited 2 months ago by 3g4me
Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

Sorry Karl! I wasn’t trying to be a dink or crap on anyone. I am a Yesterday Man and think that thing is what made America great…and that a lot of America’s current problems stem from letting the Usual Suspects wipe their arse on it.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

Much like “it is not who votes that matters, but who counts the votes,” it can also be said “it is not the Constitution that matters but who interprets the Constitution.”

Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Durendal
2 months ago

That’s just an excuse.

So what – I’m supposed to be opposed to the 2nd amendment now just because a bunch of trannies in Seattle are running around with AKs ?

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Calsdad
2 months ago

Just as voting should be massively restricted, so too should all the other ‘rights’ we supposedly have/had. Everything should be based on racial demographics.

Educated.redneck
Educated.redneck
Reply to  Calsdad
2 months ago

In a word, YES. And I say that as someone with gold “Life” rockers. “Rights for all” is part of the egalitarian crap sandwich that led us to this.
Rights only for citizens, citizenship only for straight white Christian Heritage-American men with legitimate offspring who meet minimum wealth requirements. (And trying to change that requirement is treason with a mandatory death sentence.)

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Educated.redneck
2 months ago

Heinlein’s SF novel Starship Troopers has, if I recall correctly, an intersting world. Relevant to this topic, even if you were born in the country, you were merely a “Legal Resident.” To become a citizen you had to pass certain standards, forget what, probably serving in military. The point was well made: you had to earn your right to be a citizen; it wasn’t just granted because of where you happened to fall out of Momma’s twat. His spoof on the military was neat: they would take anyone, and find duty to suit the individual’s political views. But they had… Read more »

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

This kind of setup makes for great SF but is unworkable in a society at peace and expensive as well.
You can’t really hack the hard times create strong men equation in any meaningful way anyway.

Last edited 2 months ago by abprosper
Epaminondas
Member
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

It only works for the Historic American Nation. The rest don’t give a shit and have been trying to change it to suit themselves since at least the 1840s. Once the Democrazies gain the brown votes they need to occupy all three branches, the Constitution will merely be a pretense for discriminating against whitey.

B123
B123
Reply to  Epaminondas
2 months ago

Yes, only NW Euro people understand it. Other Euros assimilated to understand it over time too. Only a small fraction of non-whites are genetically equipped to understand.

That said, I think Americans forgot how you won those rights in the first place. The British didnt just give up their colony.

Without muscle behind it the constitution is just a piece of paper.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

Believing in constitution is just as silly as believing that facts and logic will get you anywhere. The enemy doesn’t care about any of that. They do what they have to do to get their way.

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Hun
2 months ago

oh great one, share the source of your wisdom!

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

The source is probably Chairman Mao: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

And he was right.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  c matt
2 months ago

Sounds reasonable. And, based on comments I read here and elsewhere, if/when the need comes, America has more guns than citizens, in private hands.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Karl McHungus
2 months ago

Good luck waving your constitution around while savages are pillaging your contry and raping your kids because “white privilege”.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Hun
2 months ago

comment image

Last edited 2 months ago by LineInTheSand
Calsdad
Calsdad
Reply to  Hun
2 months ago

Wrong. The Constitution is an embodiment of what a bunch of white men thought would be a society in which white men could flourish. Just because it’s not working out in the current day – is not the fault of the document – it’s the fault of the people of the current day who refuse the honor and ENFORCE the society and government that document was supposed to define. People who make arguments like this are not qualified to be analyzing or leading anything IMHO. They remind me of a person who gets a Corvette and then proceeds to bitch… Read more »

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Calsdad
2 months ago

Keep telling that to yourself, while your country is being taken away from you.
You sound like the guys claiming that true communism hasn’t been tried and only if you did it for real, with the right people, it would finally work.

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Calsdad
2 months ago

Horse hockey. Its was written for a vastly English (not Anglo Saxon here, English) Protestant population and no one else. It died with the waves of European immigration and over issues of trade and slavery. Its not that good for Germans who are usually authoritarian , their boot on your neck or yours on theirs. Its document is long dead and if the DR gets power we are going to have a new Constitution and some kinds of speech, some religions and a whole lot of behaviors like easy divorce smoking dope and possibly porn and abortion are going to… Read more »

whitney
Member
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

The Constitution is dead

whitney
Member
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I really hope I dream about that tonight

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

I tune out literally everything someone says after they make a reference to “constitutional conservatism.” As if. The phrase is like “Mermaidish Unicorn.”

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Lysander Spooner pointed out a long time ago that the Constitution either authorizes exactly the state we have or is utterly powerless against it, and so is at best worthless.

American ideas ranging from normie conservatism to libertarianism are so tempting, because they imagine a sane and peaceful world. But the world rightly insists, every day, that it’s crazy and it’s after us.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Hemid
2 months ago

As Pat Buchanan once put it, the founding documents were not created but were the birth certificate of what was in the hearts of the men at the time. It’s always current values that shape everything. Current sentiment locked down by court decisions.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Hemid
2 months ago

Politics is so arbitrary. As some wag once noted, our Country’s founding document, after overthrowing the previous government, specifically made it a crime to overthrow the government.

The Right Doctor
The Right Doctor
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

You know what? ‘We’ did the same thing – the Confederate constitution forbade secession.

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

John Adams was kinda right, a Constitution is only made for a moral and religious people. Problem is the Christians have no men willing to take out the sword and chop some degenerates heads off for violating moral laws.
Christianity with a few exceptions is part of the problem now. And I say that as a Christian myself.

Rich
Member
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
2 months ago

Christianity has been attacked, undermined, and demonized (literally), leaving a vacuum that has been filled by things anti- Christian. Those things are very aggressive.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
2 months ago

There are still men, Christian or not, who will gladly volunteer to chop off some heads when the need arises.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

I would kneel and kiss the Cross if they would give me leave to be be a Crusader.

Last edited 2 months ago by Alzaebo
Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

What about the Constitution that explicitly forbids govt discrimination on the basis of race but that Justice O’Connor just said ignore that part because of a “compelling government interest.”

She didn’t even try to pretend that AA was constitutional. The Left has its Magic Dirt while the Right has its Magic Constitution.

Diversity Heretic
Member
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

The Constitution didn’t even prevent the Civil War. That being said, it was a reasonable arrangement in 1787.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

The United States Constitution was great. Now it is routinely ignored and in many ways like its Soviet counterpart: yes, you have rights on paper, but don’t think they can be exercised. Courts pull things out of their ass and pretend the decisions have a constitutional basis. It is fantasy paperwork because the constitution depends to a large degree on trust and honor, traits not shared by Third World invaders and the Empire’s actual rulers who laugh at such pretensions. The constitution will continue to shrivel as a relevant document as the nation becomes browner and the police state expands.

Last edited 2 months ago by Jack Dobson
MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

The 1787 Constitution had a great run, by historic standards. For a founding document to remain workable for 2+ Centuries is quite astounding.

That being said, it’s a dead letter here in year 233.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Some argue the Constitution was a dead letter even before the Hartford Convention and was killed by Marbury, which effectively vested all real power with the United States Supreme Court. It is a pretty compelling claim when you watch the arbitrary nature of even lower courts. Kritarchy was a long time coming. Even after the “Second Founding,” which ultimately did render the Constitution a dead letter, there was some adherence to the Bill of Rights and the separation of powers. The Constitution undeniably became a totally empty governing document with the Brown decision and was shot in the head just… Read more »

Sevier
Sevier
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

Marbury v Madison destroyed the United States in the cradle. When a judge can overrule the congress, the people effectively have no redress against the government except through authoritarian populism or rebellion. The U.S. was successful because of the stock of it’s people and their culture. It’s been a long slow burn since then. Greater abuses of authority beget further abuses. Compound that with massive immigration, subversion of the culture, and a uniparty system… it’s amazing we did so well for so long on our momentum. I have no doubt in my lifetime I will see a judge declare some… Read more »

Sevier
Sevier
Reply to  Sevier
2 months ago

P.S. Judicial review is cancer and any judge that uses that argumentation should be lynched, with due process, by the people.

I’d also argue it’s more legally sound to do so than this kritarchy hogwash.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Sevier
2 months ago

Yes. First, the judges and law “professors”.

Something else Mi General, Pinochet, got exactly right.

Sevier
Sevier
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 months ago

Thanks for the up votes and stuff, I can only assume you’re a trs guy, like I have been for years. I’ve generally been a dissident. The Pinochet stuff is a 7 years ago tier meme.So who knows, maybe we met at an old amren and maybe the name stuck and you remember me. For reasons I have had to back away. I only recently started posting here because I wanted to reach out to Z, mainly because I believe in his work and I felt it important, I dont even talk to trs people anymore or ID folks because… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

I tried to understand Marbury/Judicial Review (restraint?) and got confused. As I understood it, it meant that (back then at least) the Court basically said that we agree you have a case, but Congress said otherwise, and we won’t do anything about it. Yet much later, it seems the Court’s decisions are all and what the Legislature meant bedamned.

Sevier
Sevier
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

The terms of the case aren’t necessarily as important as the precedent the case established. Chief Justice John Marshall struck down a law because he deemed it “unconstitutional”. It’s essentially a get out of jail free card. If the supreme court decides it doesn’t like a law it says it’s not constitutional and *poof* the law doesn’t count anymore, and noone can do anything about it unless the supreme court takes the case again and changes it’s mind. This is how we got desegregation, gay marriage, abortion and all manner of insidious “judgements”. It’s a complete miscarriage of justice and… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Sevier
2 months ago

Your explanation seems clear. I think I have judicial restraint confused with review. To use your final example, couldn’t Congress (for example) repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Sure, but that would be even more unlikely than the Supremes striking it down 🙁 I just re-read the Wiki page and…so the Supremes can “strike down” (judicial review) Congress’s laws. This part I can understand. Congress make bad law, Court say “uh-uh.” I guess I’d need a much more detailed explanation of how this same doctrine allows the Supremes to pull new “rights” out of their Judicial rectums, but apparently… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by Ben the Layabout
The Right Doctor
The Right Doctor
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
2 months ago

I was stunned, even as a young man, that my high school history teacher thought Marbury/Madison was some great breakthrough in the history of self-government.
I remember asking, “Why are you surprised that, given the opportunity, a court ruled that it would always have the final say?”

Sevier
Sevier
Reply to  The Right Doctor
2 months ago

It’s not that the court has final say that’s the problem. It’s that the court can say a LAW isnt a legal anymore. And they invent non-existant ‘rights’.

Their duty is to judge according to the law. Not invent it.

Last edited 2 months ago by Sevier
Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

The Brown decision and the 1964 Civil Rights Act were our Trudeaupean Charter.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Regarding the Hartford Convention, I suspect that we may be heading for a test of the Compact Theory in the next 100 years or so – maybe sooner.

The country is growing more and more diverse and that diversity is concentrated in regions with the Southwest heavily Hispanic, NE and other parts heavily White, etc. At some point, the laws coming out of a Washington with no cultural or ethnic ties to various regions will be ignored.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
2 months ago

+1. I remember reading in history, that as the Roman Empire (the real one, not the pretend one that lasted into “modern” times) fragmented, the author made the point that the locally appointed Roman judge might make a ruling. If he was lucky, the ruling would be merely ignored. If he wasn’t lucky…

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
2 months ago

It is happening now. Sanctuary cities for illegals, sanctuary cities for gun owners. Of course, since the Marxist Left is ascendant there will be attempts to have that only work one way, but it is out of their hands ultimately. Look for state-sanctioned disruption of residential and commercial electrical and water services to continue to be a routine feature of American life, and the State’s anger to boil over as people work around it. California does it now. Soon other governments will follow. Virginia started to do it to counties that were to become 1st Amendment sanctuaries but realized its… Read more »

Sandmich
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

A smidge optimistic. States could figure out how to live without the Feds but for Medicaid. Even for SS and Medicare they could probably figure something out, but Medicaid is pure printed graft on the back of a legacy reserve currency. The pain on a state would have to be quite extreme before that level of sacrifice was contemplated.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it

Man, for a President like Jackson once more!

KGB
KGB
Reply to  thezman
2 months ago

Jefferson was of the opinion that governments needed to be kept honest by the occasional pitchfork and torch procession — hence his notorious quote about the tree of liberty — and that the governmental compact needed to be reviewed/replaced every couple decades. Of course he was President on the occasion of the Constitution’s 20th birthday and nothing came of it. Also, I shudder to think what today’s political class would come up with in terms of a constitution.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  KGB
2 months ago

We may live long enough to shudder. It’s called an Article V Convention. But that probably won’t be necessary. I side with those who point out that laws, including that amusing piece of parchment, are increasingly just set pieces, to not be taken too seriously. So what need to rewrite a document nobody is going to follow anyway?

cf omally
cf omally
Reply to  MemeWarVet
2 months ago

I think where it really went wrong was the 14th and 19th amendments. Allowing people with no skin in the game a vote was always the problem. Future societies hopefully learn that wide spread democracy/ one person one vote eats itself.

Carrie
Reply to  cf omally
2 months ago

And don’t forget that we are currently celebrating the 19th Amendment’s 100th Anniversary!!
(August 18 or August 26, depending on what you acknowledge, based on the law’s passage & certification history.)

That’s something to be cheered for!!

(I’m kidding. Really. I’d be very happy to repeal the damn thing.)

sentry
sentry
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

USA worked cause it was made out of white christians, that’s it. Any system works in a white ethno-state composed of christians.
You don’t need any ideology, just have christian values, love Jesus, things will work out.

Last edited 2 months ago by sentry
MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  sentry
2 months ago

This is also why 19th Century Utah worked. Brigham Young recruited a very high level of human capital.

B123
B123
Reply to  MemeWarVet
2 months ago

I watched a VICE doc about a mormon colony in mexico – romneys brother runs it or something. Crazy mormon fanatics who left the USA.

Anyways, it’s an oasis, with golf courses, low crime, and no cartels. Surrounded by shithole cartel territory. They have snipers keep watch over the village every night because the police won’t protect them.

Wonder why it’s so succesful? 🤔

Carrie
Reply to  B123
2 months ago

That sounds like something I’d like to research.

Big fan of the sny-pers keeping watch.
Our Thing needs that, somewhere, if we settled in a location. In fact, I’d be OK with it if a few warnings were given to Sodom.
But no-one is stepping up.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  MemeWarVet
2 months ago

That’s why even the frozen slaves of the Soviets got into orbit.

No one else came close, no one else was within a thousand years of coming close.
We are the Space Race.

skeptic16
skeptic16
Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
2 months ago

The Liberian constitutions is almost the same as the US Constitution and it didn’t really make much difference for Liberia did it?

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  skeptic16
2 months ago

We still have quite a few million future Liberian citizens we must ship over 😀

Karl McHungus
Karl McHungus
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

don’t worry Glen, Trump is going to take back the 10 Far North States in his second term, then you will get your wish! :p

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

The Constitution *is* a great document, if you were reading it in 1800. However the Constitution of today is but a document replica framed upon the wall in a SCOTUS office, while in the bookcase below are a dozen volumes of hundreds of pages each of historical “interpretations” which now form the working body of that long dead Constitution framed enshrined above. In there lies the problem. The rubes/normies are shown the framed version when they seek reassurance, TPTB use the interpretive body when they seek to rule over us. Took them 200 years to pervert such a framework as… Read more »

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

Glen…the electoral college and constitution were good once upon a time. Too late for them. The great demographic replacement is tossing both out. Reality. No stopping the browning of America. The foundational argument from now until a black swan event changes the cards on the table is Demographics underpinning all. And demographic reality is tribalism…you name the group and they’re triballed up for a piece of the pie and protecting their own. Pathologically altruistic whites don’t tribal and won’t get it until death constantly stalks us. And most won’t get it. The founding concepts you wish we would protect are… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Range Front Fault
2 months ago

That’s just it, Range… they will viciously defend their own no matter what their own do.

There’s even a “Social Justice For Darius Stevens” Facebook page now.
That’s the prick who shot 5 y.o. Cannon Hinnant.

(Another faked FB page was mocked up claiming Cannon’s dad was buying drugs from Sh*thead. There’s no depth they won’t sink to. FFS.)

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

We still have the former (it’s a piece of paper in the National Archives in Washington, DC). Pretty sure the latter is on life support, if not actually brain-dead. At the rate things are going if I were you, I’d be seeking political asylum in Nunavut 🙂

Last edited 2 months ago by Ben the Layabout
CAPT S
CAPT S
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

I tend to agree. That whole Constitution thing started to go off the rails relatively early though, specifically when Justice John Marshall seized excessive court power in Marbury v Madison. There remain gems of exceptional insight in the Constitution, some of which we still follow. But the forces are already aligned against the electoral college … I expect it to go away in short order. I think Z-man’s quote is based on the fact that our salvation won’t be found in a moth-eaten document that’s riddled with 200 years of Supreme Court malfeasance … along with a disunited people, half… Read more »

abprosper
abprosper
Reply to  Glenfilthie
2 months ago

Not really. We don’t need a whole lot of freedoms we have now nor a Constitution made for a religious and moral people that no longer exist.

Tykebomb
Tykebomb
2 months ago

Just a reminder that Biden and Pelosi were born during WW2, and thus aren’t Baby Boomers. They’re older.

Last edited 2 months ago by Tykebomb
MemeWarVet
MemeWarVet
Reply to  Tykebomb
2 months ago

Trump was born in 46, and thus is Boomer as Boomer can be.

Biden, Pelosi, and Bernie are all late Silents, and the actuarial table is no doubt chowing down on their High School classmates as we speak.

Yak-15
Yak-15
2 months ago

I can’t wait for the Democrats to start trotting our white, straight male tokens.

“See, we also appeal to SWMs!”

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Yak-15
2 months ago

Isn’t that what Tim Kaisch and Bill Clinton were for?

BCB
BCB
2 months ago

In the old days, the “grip and grin” guys were called “glad-handers.” In the company, they were usually the “business development” guys (salesmen).

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

I like the comment about the social proof live audiences provide to sports.

Out of morbid curiosity, I watched 2 minutes of an ESPN broadcast of two NBA players playing NBA2K20 online against each other.

I thought it looked and sounded like any two other basement-dwellers playing video games and changed the channel.

Ganderson
Ganderson
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 months ago

Sportsball ratings are way down, but (and I’m not as hostile to sports as many on this thread) l‘m guessing it has more to do with the weirdness of it all- hockey in August- two rinks, no fans? A baseball season which has the feel of extended spring training. Don’ give a rat’s ass about football and basketball. And the swooning every time a player tests positive for Corona-chan. There was a story In my local rag about Aroldis Chapman, who is now “recovered” from Covid- although he just tested positive- he wasn’t sick… If we ever get back to… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by Ganderson
Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Ganderson
2 months ago

Purge Arenas, based on a grand old Roman tradition involving lions.

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  Ganderson
2 months ago

I have not followed it closely, but I don’t believe a single baseball player who has tested positive for Covid was sick enough that he would have missed a game due to illness under normal circumstances. No one has even come close to needing to be hospitalized.

Frip
Member
2 months ago

I bet they wanted to change this lyric. And I noticed the black guy downplayed it as best he could.

“There’s battle lines being drawn
And nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong

Last edited 2 months ago by Frip
Kentucky Headhunter
Kentucky Headhunter
2 months ago

“People working at home are no longer talking about sports and TV shows with co-workers.”

For many years, Shark Week was something I looked forward to each Fall, but the quality of the programming went in the toilet a while back. The only reason I knew it was on last week was I could see a big shark on the 70in screen through the neighbors window when out walking my dog.

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
2 months ago

Its the last George McGovern convention of our age complete with hippie music performed by an old hippie and a black man in a dress.
But this time unlike 1972 the descendants of the white elite will not become yuppies they instead will become minorities who’s function is to bow before the brown hordes descending upon western civilization.

Last edited 2 months ago by G Lordon Giddy
3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
2 months ago

The entire country now is nothing more than a skin suit.

Bee Bop
Member
2 months ago

If we’re lucky (and smart) it’ll shake down to makers and takers. And the makers prevail. If not it was fun while it lasted. Like every other Republic in history.

TomA
TomA
2 months ago

Taboos are also being broken. When I was growing up (in the early 60s), a nigger was a bad black person. All races have bad persons in their ranks, and they all had nicknames. But only the “N-word” became taboo. Well, I’m here to tell you that lots of people are once again referring to bad blacks as niggers. That is not a trivial cultural change. Let the vapors and fainting begin.

Frip
Member
Reply to  TomA
2 months ago

English class, high school ’84. Young lily-white English teacher told our class same thing you said in the first part of your comment. A few years later (and obviously today) she’d have been fired. I don’t have a super self-righteous take on it, I just don’t like the word, and I wish our side wouldn’t use it. Besides the ethics of it, it sounds like a sharp curse word. It’s just so blunt. The aural equivalent of busting the butt of a rifle into someone’s nose. In elementary school it was known not to say it around me or I’d… Read more »

TomA
TomA
Reply to  Frip
2 months ago

Cracker, white trash, spic, wop, kike (on and on). Yes, if you use these as visceral epithets, all are indeed fighting words. But that’s not how I learned it. Young children were warned about various dangers that could harm you either acutely or by assimilation into criminal behaviors. And you can’t give a 5 year old an ethical dissertation on racial epithets when conveying this wisdom. Hence the shorthand version.

Last edited 2 months ago by TomA
3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Frip
2 months ago

Ah, so you were infected early with the social justice virus. That explains a lot. Perhaps you should return the favor, and tell your mother the truth about Michael King, who liked to f**k and beat White whores, who plagiarized his PhD dissertation and most of his speeches, and who wholeheartedly endorsed confiscation and redistribution of White assets. He was a nigger. Deal with it.

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  3g4me
2 months ago

Assume he’s not affected by the social justice virus, which is just another kind of ad hominem. Why is “nigger” worth keeping, outside of private humor and academic contexts? What good does it do?

Last edited 2 months ago by Lanky
Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Lanky
2 months ago

It fills the slot in the language where a derogatory term for black belongs. Should we abandon derogatory terms altogether or only those for blacks?

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  Felix Krull
2 months ago

You’re assuming that I think nigger is inherently bad. I’m not saying that. It has its place; however, I always thought that gratuitous ad hominem was our enemy’s thing. Saying “nigger,” besides alienating normies (and even new dissidents) who haven’t yet broken out of their magical thinking, draws attention to oneself. While they probably won’t knock on our doors for the crime of dissidence just quite yet, maybe “racism” isn’t too far off. Also, “nigger’ glorifies our enemy. Validates them. I suspect that it doesn’t bother them at all — that many troublesome blacks are just walking around waiting to… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by Lanky
Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Lanky
2 months ago

Also, “nigger’ glorifies our enemy. Validates them.

How is that?

Mind you, I’ve never called anyone nigger to his face. Not that I’ve met very many, of course, but there are whole dictionaries full of slurs I’d never call anyone to their face.

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  Felix Krull
2 months ago

Because “nigger” has become a signifier of fictional historical relevance. It’s a theatrical word; one that always puts them directly on center stage. Notice how they’re always crowing about the “history” of the word. All they have to do is accuse someone of saying it and the whole discussion gets subverted. Not to mention it paints a target on that person’s back. But again, I agree that, among friends or in very specific contexts, it has its uses. Also, they’ve successfully coopted the word. I really doubt that the word even bothers them, even when white people use it. It’s… Read more »

Last edited 2 months ago by Lanky
Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Lanky
2 months ago

signifier of fictional historical relevance.

I don’t even know what that means. Are you in college, by any chance?

All they have to do is accuse someone of saying it and the whole discussion gets subverted.

That only works because people like you imbue the word with magic properties. If it wasn’t voodoo’ed up by the usual suspects, nobody would care any more than if they were accused of calling someone an asshole.

I really doubt that the word even bothers them, even when white people use it. 

Then what’s the problem?

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Lanky
2 months ago

It all started in elementary school, when garbagemen were renamed custodians. I refuse to let others police my language. Niggardly, sniggering, black holes, fireMAN, chairMAN, Oriental, ‘fair’ skin, etc. Language reflects thought and culture.

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  3g4me
2 months ago

Nobody is policing anything, though. I’m just making the assertion that using “nigger” in all but a few specific contexts is a net loss for our side. Not saying anyone should be punished, chided, or forbidden from their choice of self-expression.

Last edited 2 months ago by Lanky
Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Lanky
2 months ago

Cuz it’s so damn much fun to say, Lanky.

I din’t like it either when I was a Bush voter, but I’m no longer a Bush voter.

Frip
Member
Reply to  3g4me
2 months ago

Damn you’re hardcore lady. 150 years ago you’d have been a saloon owner in the Old West. Respected by the roughnecks, and even feared. You’d go by Dusty. Can you change your name here to Dusty? Dusty Venom. (No sarcasm. I’d think it’d be cool.)

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Frip
2 months ago

In early grades (late 1960s) I mispronounced the country “Niger” and recall being sternly reprimanded.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Frip
2 months ago

Fuck you.

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  Frip
2 months ago

I get why people downvoted you, but I see where you’re coming from. (This is a good exhibit for why voting sucks).

Why benefit does it confer to say nigger in all but the most private contexts? It’s not doing our side any favors. Many curious normies are repulsed by it, and while I’m not for castrating ourselves just to appeal to prospective dissidents, I think our side would be better off if we didn’t publicly say it. Again, I’m not saying don’t say it, I’m saying it’s smarter not to.

Last edited 2 months ago by Lanky
3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Lanky
2 months ago

Lanky, I’m not a normie and I don’t give a damn about optics. I’m repulsed by nigger behavior; you are repulsed by the word. I believe an old dead White male named Shakespeare said a thing or two about names.

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  3g4me
2 months ago

“You are repulsed by the word.”
I am not repulsed by any word, nor any word’s gratuitous use. You’re mislabeling my objection to your perspective as maudlin progressivism, which it objectively isn’t. Wanna know how I know that? Because I’m the person who’s not having the emotions you’re accusing me of having. Is it so outlandish that a person could dispassionately disagree with you?

Last edited 2 months ago by Lanky