The Failed Experiment Problem

At the end of the Cold War, Progressives pointed out that conservatism no longer had a purpose, so it was probably going to follow communism into the past. Of course, the Left had its own problems in this regard, but conservatism in America had largely been about opposing the Soviets. They had conceded all the important points in the cultural war and the Left was ready to embrace corporate control of the economy, so there was no longer any purpose to conservatism.

This was a fair analysis, but one conservatives could not accept, as it would mean getting real jobs and doing honest work. Instead they tried to define conservatism as green eye-shade bean counting in the 1990’s. That was no fun as they like spending borrowed money as much as the Left. Then they tried to define conservatism to mean dropping high explosives onto Muslims. That worked for a while, but then the public soured on the pointless flag waving and hollow patriotism.

In the Obama years, conservatism entered the darkness and it has not been able to find a way out of it ever since. They tried to rally people around hating Trump, but that just underscored the bankruptcy of modern conservatism. Since then, various writers have been trying to figure out what conservatism is supposed to mean in the age of post-national globalism. The one enduring feature of the Right has been its roots in nationalism, so without that, it has no anchor.

This summer, the American Conservative has been running pieces on the topic from various writers. Here’s one from July doing the old constitution bit. Here’s one relying on historicism to define conservatism. A couple of Israelis contributed a piece claiming conservatism is a big shopping mall. This one makes the Straussian argument that conservatism is rooted in natural rights. Along the same lines, Yoram Hazony posted a long piece at Quillette about the dangers of Marxism.

The main take-sway from all of this is that no one in conservatism has the slightest idea how to breathe life into the corpse of their project. If they are unwilling to reject universalism and egalitarianism, they cannot embrace nationalism, other than as a shallow rhetorical device. Yoram Hazony has turned himself into a pretzel trying to promote a nationalism detached from biological reality. Everyone else is too afraid to go near anything that contradicts Progressive dogma on biology.

The truth is, the closest America ever came to having a genuine conservative alternative to Northern Progressivism ended in the Civil War. Since then the dynamic in America has been the Left innovating and the Right implementing. The Left, needing to exercise its reform impulse, finds something to break with novel ideas. The Right then comes in to clean up after them, finding some way to normalize it. The Robert Lewis Dabney observation is has never ceased to be true.

This is why whatever replaces conservatism as the alternative to the Progressive orthodoxy has to free of conservatism. It must be a clean break with that failed tradition of accommodation and obedience. A genuine alternative, a real competitor to the Left, has to be a stand-alone moral framework, rather than just a collection of criticisms and critiques of the liberal moral order. A critique is just a conditional agreement. That’s always been conservatism, agreement with conditions.

This may prove to be easiest in Europe, as Europeans have a genuine conservatism in their past they can pull out of storage. It may have failed under the pincer assault of Marxism and liberal democracy, but it offers a foundation to build on. Like an old house with good bones, it can be rebuilt with modern ideas and understandings. The failings of liberal democracy now make it a weaker foe than in the past. Liberal democracy is no longer about promise, but about practice.

For Americans, the task is difficult, as it means jettisoning most of the American story, maybe even the very concept of American. The frontier culture that has always been at the root of American mythology no longer makes a lot of sense in the demographic age with high-density urban areas. Rugged independence is suicidal when facing a demographic assault. There’s also the fact that the past has been rewritten to support the egalitarianism and universalism of the Left.

Then there is that American creed that starts with the assertion that all men are created equal, endowed with inalienable rights. The rejection of universal equality is a rejection of the core component of Americanism. This is the trap that devoured Buckley style conservatism in the last century. It is simply impossible to forge an alternative to Progressivism without first rejecting universal equality. To American ears, that sounds like a rejection of their very identity.

It is not impossible though. Events are what forge ideologies and the demographic changes sweeping North America will forge new political constructs. Organizing civil life in a world where the government is no longer willing or able to control the frontier or police the violent elements will require new ideologies. Most likely that means a return to the oldest form of social organization, which is relatedness. The large society problem will be solved with racial and ethnic identity.

Ultimately, that is the project facing the West. Liberalism, communism and to a lesser degree fascism, were all solutions to the large society problem. Liberal democracy is the current experiment in solving the problem. The real alternative to the prevailing order starts with accepting that these experiences have all failed. They failed because there is no solution to the problem, other than a passive ethno-nationalism organized around group identity and rights.

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372 thoughts on “The Failed Experiment Problem

  1. Hey I’m a young guy here but a fan so heres my 2 cents for what it’s worth. More people in my life have been talking about civil war and break up of states more than ever. It’s odd to see since I’ve been a caricature of the libertarian conspiracy prepper since 2012. (I’m 27 now, and have moved more right since) it’s very white pilling to see many of us young guys getting into building community, firearms, and even building small business. Most the the gen z guys just dont care for anything public related when it comes to government and politics, but when they do they’re great allies. We already are forming our own groups in response to the faux crises and alot of skills have been learned since the pandemic. (All the canning jars are sold out) anyways its thanks to you Zman that we are starting to build groups to weather the storms.

  2. The problem with the new Right, DR or whatever you call it is this, the biggest group of America-haters are White Americans, lots and in fact most of the BLM Aunteefah crowd are young moronial Whites. Your ethno-nationalism, soft or hard will be a colossal failure with this group. Although Trump policies benefit White Americans the most, he has the lowest White approval and the biggest non-White approval amongst all Republican Presidents,
    Unfortunately, Whites “men” of the moronial generation have become bitter, brainwashed soy-cucks and nothing seems to shake up their beta male cuck ways. Maybe the changing racial composition of the US is not such a bad thing.

  3. Empire is the old school solution to the large society problem, and I think it can work, but it requires an actual Elite who will actually project a workable moral framework on their populace.

  4. it’s simple. conservatism simply needs to conserve two principles:

    1. God
    2. The common good, as best as God-given genes allow, of each of God’s created nations and their God-given homelands.

    even pagans and/or socialists not degenerate enough that could be saved yet would agree. though of course I’d argue Christian conversion of the whole world is still necessary, both for the sake of this world and the next; but not under the guises of “Westernization”, “democratization”, “globalization”; and definitely not miscegenation nor oneworldism nor individualism nor egalitarianism. missionaries and crusaders, and people who travel abroad really, should be voluntary self-funded exceptions to a mostly based and landed ethnocultural majority in each nation, as opposed to the atheist globalist rootless lifestyle being promoted now.

  5. Most of the commenters sound like kids writing their Christmas wish list. Alas, there is no Santa.

    An explicit white state won’t happen unless it serves the tribe’s needs. That would probably require the Browntopia turning on them in a big way.

    That may happen but it will make the Whitetopia short lived because the tribe will continue to control the media, finance and entertainment. By the next generation at the latest they will begin to start the multicultural propaganda all over again (if they even stop it in the first place). You are fooling yourself if you think that whites in mass will suddenly become anti Semitic. They worship the tribe in spite of how openly hateful they are to whites.

    The chamber of commerce is still going to want imported cheap labor and young whites are largely woke especially the women.

    • The future is never merely the continuation of the present. If it were otherwise we would never have gotten into such a stupid position in the first place

  6. It sounds like you are trying to define a word, ‘conservatism’, which you demonstrate has had a varying definition over some recent decades. Why go to all this trouble? What possible benefit would it be? Are you rather trying to define what some fluctuating group of people write about? Communism is well-defined, conservatism is not.

  7. Failed experiment is conservatism
    Conservative posting the usual story to distract us
    Have more baby, read more Bible and believe Jesus harder, vote GOP etc
    Its proven fact those fake social strategy doesn’t work when enemy subvert every institution, emasculate our son and manipulate our daughter

    Wonder why so called conservative never mention real strategy such as destroy the enemy
    Here’s obvious answer, they are the enemy or at least fifth column who working for the enemy

  8. Side note: The Southern District of NY goes after Bannon (I’m not a fan, and he’s likely guilty) for obviously political reasons. That district is clearly, at this point, the most weaponized district in the country against anything or anyone right wing. Notice the circuit in which ALL of these clowns live. Manhattan, Santa Monica, Palm Beach and DC. Never never never is it a place where their supporters live. You don’t see “Steve Bannon was arrested in his residence in Highland Park, TX.” They’ll say oh, oh, THE MEDIA is in those places so it’s part of my work. The same media that calls you Hitler and hates your guts? The same media you proclaim is dead? Why does Tucker Carlson actually live in DC when he could easily live just across the river? None of this makes sense when the right wing talking heads and gadflies all seem to live in bluer than blue pockets where these prosecutors are hard wired DNC operatives. No exposed, famous right winger should live in these places.

  9. Z Man said: “There’s also the fact that the past has been rewritten to support the egalitarianism and universalism of the Left.”

    It seems that a modified version of european universalism was one of the main sources of bioleninism. I found an essay by a guy named Stefan Jonsson at the new left review that said that the new left began to reject the old white bourgeois eurocentric type of universalism for a global universalism that made room for women, fudge packers and most of all dee colored folk.

    Unfortunately you have to sign up for an account to read the whole thing. So here’s a relevant quote.

    The Ideology of Universalism:

    “Universalism today is not just an ethical aspiration. Nor is it simply a religious conviction or an epistemological principle; it is, rather, the dominant ideology of our time. It has become an explicit political aim, implemented now by voting booths, now by trading agreements, in international courts of justice or so-called humanitarian interventions, or through the distribution of laptop computers to African schools. Why is this idea now of such paramount importance? Whence the urgency to affirm or deny, to support or question, the existence of universal truths, values or rights? The idea of universalism has become an apparently self-evident signifier, yet, as we shall see, there is another notion of universality that works against this ideology.”

    “Many thinkers have identified a Eurocentric bias in inherited notions of universality, whether of Christian, humanist or Enlightenment provenance. As a corrective to such limited conceptions, these thinkers often argue for their replacement by a truly planetary one—Balibar’s ‘ideal universality’, or Wallerstein’s ‘universal universalism’. European thought grounded universality in a specific notion of the human subject. Just as Christianity had regarded worldly activity as secondary and accidental in relation to a heavenly life that was primary and eternal, this subject had the ability to disregard whatever was contingent, local and corporeal. European philosophies of the subject have thus typically disregarded historical, geographical, social and sexual aspects of the human being, while her true essence has been defined as a faculty of reason that makes her autonomous. It was in this capacity, as the foundation of pure and practical reason, that consciousness could develop true knowledge of reality and formulate universal ethical maxims. And it was in this capacity that humans were invested with inalienable rights and freedoms.”

    “From the standpoint of this supra-historical subject, the various cultures and peoples of the world could be interpreted and classified. This subject placed itself in opposition to those who, like Rousseau’s barbarians, were enclosed within their traditions and unable to liberate themselves from their bodily instincts. Among such unhappy beings were women, labouring classes and non-Europeans. As they gained the ability to speak and produce knowledge on these terms (they had of course always known how to speak and know on their own terms) the prevailing system was challenged. Simone de Beauvoir’s The Second Sex (1949) and Frantz Fanon’s Black Skin, White Masks (1952) are sometimes hailed as symbols of this change. Their lesson was that the transcendental subject never exists in pure form but is always embodied in particular human beings. Universal subjectivity therefore reflects the specific values and interests of those persons through whom it is articulated. With few exceptions, universal subjectivity had been articulated by white men of upper-class background, and the resulting body of thought had been shaped accordingly: a mixture of humanist ideals and patriarchal values, universalism and racism, knowledge and bourgeois ideology.”

      • Buck said: “Sounds like a bunch of shit to me. lol”

        Exactly the kind of in-depth analysis I was hoping for.

        • Well, there’s a lesson learned. When you post a comment and a massage on top tells you that it’s waiting for approval and you leave the site. Then you come back and your post isn’t there, don’t post another one or you’ll have two of the same post.

          • When that happens it’s best to ignore it. Anyway, it’s time to set down the bologna and call it a night my friend.

  10. In the 19th century, the frontier exposed the lie of egalitarianism and the inherent conflict between Jefferson’s vision of a nation of yeoman farmers and merchants and the stirring rhetoric of his 1776 FU to King George. The urbanization and mass media of the 20th century obliterated the frontier and once again permitted the spread of the poisonous myth of egalitarianism. The globalization and exaltation of economics in the 21st century has delivered the coup de grace to the rugged individual in favor of collectivism, the failed “solution” explored by both socialism and fascism. Most people are incapable of learning the lessons of history.

  11. Sitting with my wife’s family and thinking that maybe it’d be best if Biden won; that why, maybe they’d FINALLY shut the hell up about Trump. It’s like this weird status signifier: who can think up the snarkiest thing to say about Orange Man? It’s all just so, so tiresome. Yeah, let’s shit on Trump, but let’s completely ignore the fact that the left has orchestrated an attempted coup, supports the normalization of having sex with kids, and is committing elder abuse by electing an actual dementia patient. Don’t those things constitute a far greater threat to the integrity of our democracy than Trump?
    Since the arrival of my son, I find myself becoming more and more apolitical. Most of Trump’s sins, at least directly, are political. But the left are completely out of control.

    • I have those feelings too, at times. Not over a Biden win per say. Just with all of it. The constant conflict is mind boggling. It just beats you down. Lefty has all the neurotic energy of a hungry rat. I can’t keep up.

    • “But…He still refuses to release his tax returns!” 🙂
      Apolitical? Are you sure you don’t mean “apocalyptical?”

  12. Everyone here make sure to get in your daily walk so we don’t get all pursy.

    “The only practical purpose which the Conservative now serves in American politics is to give enough exercise to Radicalism to keep it “in wind,” and to prevent its becoming pursy and lazy, from having nothing to whip.”
    –R.L. Dabney via Zman

    • There’s somethin’ happenin’ in here
      Gotta say, it’s extremely queer
      There’s a man in a bra over there
      Tellin’ me that Biden’s aware
      It’s time we stop, goyim; shut it down
      Everybody vote for the guy who’s brown

  13. Diversity, Inclusion, Equity (DIE) has anon been a frontal assault on white civilization. The attack comes in the form of demographics, invasion of intimate social space, and redistributive theft of white wealth. The new ideology must begin with a diametrically opposed stance vis-a-vis DIE. That means racial homogeneity, robust defense of freedom of association, and strong safeguards of public property, although not unbridled capitalism, which destroys tradition and cultural cohesion.

  14. Maybe we should start by looking at how our enemies succeed. If we can’t innovate, we can at least imitate. Then we can move on to getting rigid and unreasonable with our leaders.
    For example, Latinos provide a concrete model for how to handle community building and biological realism. They’ve ethnically cleansed south central LA with identity and a refusal to get bogged down in ideology.

    • and south central is the better for their efforts. it’s going to be hilarious once the black community realizes the mexicans are going to kill all of them.

  15. right now our real concern is to come out alive from the bottleneck that the globalist are inflicting on us . with our family and fiends

  16. The solution for us is, and has always been, bottom up organization at the local level—community. Because top-down governance has few of the direct human connections in the chain, which align with obligations and responsibilities. Also, the grifters too easily work their way into the top spots and take everything for themselves, when the matrix of face-to-face obligation and responsibility is absent.

    Another benefit of bottom-up and local is that there is obviously a culling coming along. The population, and the composition of the population (givers-takers, smart-dumb, honest-dishonest) is all out of whack and too large to function. Not everyone will survive, and few will thrive. Local organization and community maximizes our chances at both.

    • really, the answer is quite simple. eliminate all government work at all levels. instead of a police force of paid unionists, citizen patrols in each neighborhood; that the neighborhood decides on. same thing with taxes; everyone is assessed a number of hours to work in the government; including bill gates. no more public sector unions, no more government pensions, no deep state.

    • Scaling-down, integralism, localism, distributism, subsidiarity are all important lessons we should have learned from nature by now.

      We’ve been high on our own supply of infinite growth, Progress, the arc and end of history, etc… Restoring the extended family and clan as the center of our polities instead of “the individual” (much less “corporate persons”) makes all the more sophisticated and complex issues much easier to solve.

      There’s an emergent harmony and social spirit that arises from those arrangements that we’ve largely lost – just see the comments here and elsewhere.

      • GDP(or maybe not)! Money printer go brrrrrr! Stonks go up! None of the “ruling class” have any vision for the people beyond enriching themselves. None.

    • The solution for us is, and has always been, bottom up organization at the local level—community.

      Amen. It’s so simple yet elusive to our modern, slave-mind selves.
      To quote Exile, “we’ve been high on our own supply”.

  17. The idea that ALL men are created “equal” is just an egalitarian fantasy pushed by the lib left, probably beginning with the snivel rights movement in the bastardized decade of the 60’s. The founders certainly didn’t believe it and I imagine most Whites felt the same up until the crm. Pretty much anyone now alive has been steeped to one degree or another in that fantasy and it can be a hard one to jettison. But as this polyglot former nation staggers onward, Whites had better start looking out for numero uno, kith & kin as well as other right thinkers – build community as lineman advises – the hour grows ever shorter.

  18. So it comes down to the old adage “we have to destroy the village in order to save it”
    Personally I’m not ready to use the Declaration and BofR as fireplace kindling and throwing what remains of our culture and history into the garbage pile like Z is.
    The thing is our system work but it only worked for whites with a moral and religious center. It stopped working when our ruling class decided import untold numbers of 3rd world primitives. Coupled with a all out war on white society and it’s values that is still going on to this day.
    No new system will work unless whites grow a brain, backbone and restore their moral center, Those are the essentials for a stable white society. And that is something we don’t have.
    Right now non-`normie whites can’t even get along The DR types seems to despise all the other whites and are in love with goose steppers as saviors. Other groups are equally in la la land and none of the can organize a pot luck,

    • You. are correct. Something some boomers will remember “they are in the wire” and sad to say in the compound. The foot washers and the guy’s going to clean up Baltimore are only prolonging the inevitable. When we stop enabling vibrant bad behavior they will see the wisdom to play along. Please defund the police – police, always employ officer safety don’t go by yourself. Not far from me the firemen wear bulletproof vests. Nobody but active troops are expected to die on the job. Make sure you always go home after your shift, everything else is secondary. Logic does not seem to work, let’s try pain.

      • I was just a bit young for Vietnam, but I heard stories from vets while I was active duty in 80s. At the larger bases (in Vietnam) it was standard policy to not allow US soliders to be armed in garrison. There are also numerous problems with hiring local nationals, supposedly “friendlies” to work on-base. How did they screen out the Viet Cong? They didn’t very well.
        Not too different an analogy to how our country has been run since then. 🙁

    • “All men are created equal” and “muh individual rights” are the moral centers of this country right now. Biology matters most but the system and culture obviously make the difference between a hard-White and a shitlib.

      You can’t just restore the moral center we had before the Civil War. The “goose-steppers” aren’t going to simply trash the entire history and tradition of America but you can’t get to the moral center you want if you uphold the DoI and BoR as they exist today.

      The only way out is forward. We have to take what’s good from that tradition but make no bones about weeding out the bad.

      • Yes, those traditions, rituals, and fledgling civic bonds borne of necessity and enforced through swift and prudent judgement of the community came from the frontier. Our people many have been bludgeoned apart from that past but the roots remain. The old frontier is gone but ours resides ahead of us. And in that frontier we will do the same. We will cut a life out of the wilderness of post-modernism and decay and grow a verdant life for our posterity because that is what we have always done. Returning to that mindset is a spiritual choice we all must face.

    • Detroit. The Constitution.
      The bones of a good house.
      Heck, we’re still using Roman roads.

      We built ’em, we can rebuild on them.
      Just got to tear out the old sheetrock, but how?

      • We built ’em, we can rebuild on them.

        Just got to tear out the old sheetrock, but how?

        I’m formulating future action in short bursts right now. My logic says let the orcs eat each other, implode their cities, ban their politicians and generally reduce their overall numbers without my interference.
        When the general chaotic velocity falls off, I believe our path to victory will be more clear.
        In the interim, prepare, strengthen your communal ties, harden yourself mentally, and gather to you as many trustworthy men you can find.

    • Attacking “All men…” is a non-starter. Bad optics. Tucker uses the formulation “All men are created equal before God and the law.” That’s at least a starting point for a discussion.

  19. Good essay. The american empire was built on the ideas of egalitarianism. I believe a breakup of the empire will be required to have a genuine conservative movement. If things are going to be fixed we will have to have secession. It matters little which nationalist is running the the US government.

  20. I think you are right the America without a frontier doesn’t make sense. However, I think there is merit in trying to find new frontier and indeed is needed if “illiberals” in White America is going to break away from our current Anti-White plantation.
    Is there any value in saying “Space Cadets” rise up? There are loony Conspiracies about are “break away civilization within the government black budget” and my response …”that’s actually what I want.”
    You are a science guy so is getting off this rock that hard? Why can’t we do it again? Why did this frontier die? Is “Whitey on the Moon” politics of resentment really that powerful?

    • Von Braun wanted us on Mars by 1985, and would’ve made it happen.

      Sky King! We are meant to fly.

      Screw the “economics”, we make the economics.

      That vision of the Frontier lit a fire under our ass. Everybody looked up to us and wanted to be us.

      The subverters dragged us back down into their muck of war profiteering for Earthly territory. For a people of supposed vision, theirs is tawdry and paltry.

      Second raters, I say.

  21. The quote, I believe, may not be accurate:
    “Then there is that American creed that starts with the assertion that all men are created equal, endowed with inalienable rights. The rejection of universal equality is a rejection of the core component of Americanism.”

    Created equal is not the same as being equal and universal equality. We know that not all people are equal (i.e., athletic, intellectual and trade talent). I think it was meant to say that no one person was created in such a way as to be above another in our country, unlike a king’s son compared to a peasant’s. That’s why the phrase equal justice under the law is part of our societal ideal too, but as we know not apparently applied equally in today’s highly charged political environment.

    • Maybe that in itself is a lie. Some men are born to rule, most are born to be ruled. It’s as simple as that. That’s not to say that the offspring of those men are born to rule (see Prince Charles). Can it not be said that a personality like Putin was born to rule? Can it not also be said that the carnival barker Trump, the thin gay man before him, or the imbecile son of another politician before him were all pretenders who couldn’t lead the country out of a paper bag?

      • You’re confusing the public-presenting actors with the rulers themselves. Politics has become theater. Ask yourself: No matter who loses any given election, who always wins? Wall Street/Banksters. The MIC/War crowd. The Cheap Labor/Open Borders crowd. There’s not a micron’s difference between either party on any issue that would benefit Americans.

  22. The problem with rejecting universalism and egalitarianism is a free rider issue. Only about 5-10% of the population drives the entire population forward. The human race was designed to be mostly followers. You can’t build any society at all if everyone is an aspiring warlord. Even in a population that’s exclusively white, this would still be the case, with the vast majority watching TicToc videos while a small subset runs the place. Embedded in human nature is the desire to be a free rider. To expend minimal energy for maximum payoff. Universalism and egalitarianism are phenomenal free rider transfer mechanisms. They’re popular because they work for the vast majority as an extortion mechanism. Their victory was assured the minute the first election was held and the first ballot was cast. Rugged individualism is an ideal, but has been crushed under the weight of this transfer system. Of course this all begins to end where we are today, with about 40% of our budget coming from taxes and 60% from new debt issues. Soon it’ll be 20% to 80%. Bankruptcy is the universal solution to this great lie. Our future is one where we’re so bankrupt as a nation, we can no longer even afford to think about these pie in the sky notions.

    • I’d say you can enumerate the people really in charge, without having to take your shoes off. nothing like 5% or even 1%.

      • I’m including the regional and local level, and the important business drivers too. Not just politicians or bureaucrats.

    • We can (re)build a system that gives cogs a meaningful role. Existential angst and nihilist lassitude weren’t huge issues for our grandfathers and their forefathers.

      In a system that afforded working men a measure of security, respect and the prospect of a decent future for their kids Whites did fine.

      An honest pro-labor revival is needed as much as political reform. The libertarian/shitlib contempt for the working class has to go and our elites need to fear the rope enough to restore respect for the masses.

      • An honest pro-labor revival

        Mike Rowe and his foundation are a one man parade. He’s operating from true, authentic appreciation for what has made America truly great…and it’s not fake tan.

        • That’s true. But unless you stop mass immigration and racial preferences in hiring and for business loans none of it matters. Taxes will go up, congestion will go up, housing prices will go up, and wages will stay flat or decline.

          • RoBG,
            I’m operating out of the reality that no change can occur with the current scheme called the Federal Government. The house wins, every time. Perhaps you believe we need to vote harder to change the issues you identified?
            I believe that we must start, right now, with focusing on individuals. On OUR People. And begin the work of stripping their mind control and re-establishing long-held understandings about life. Work, family, dignity, honor, sacrifice, God, community.

            Out of this mental shift we can begin to operate from strong positions to affect change. I don’t deny that the issues you identified could sink any “official” work for Whites, but I’m convinced the Empire is doomed and will consume itself.

            Now, a seed, or a remnant, must survive. We can rebuild. We will.

      • The same labor unions that were anti-immigration even in the 80’s are now in the vanguard of attempting to fill the trades with browns and parroting each and every open borders line.

        • This is why we need new unions led by guys who won’t sell out their families and race for shekels.

      • We are built for work. We must provide the fertile ground for the dignity of work. Skills and labor that is first and foremost accretive to the betterment of the community need to become high status. Status hierarchy must follow this; status accrues to young men who are productive. This must be front and center, transparent, and supported across every aspect of the community. Conversely and just as importantly, financialization, arbitrage, and other games of hucksters and clever sociopaths must be made low status. Men of worth will be attracted to the incentives to achieve status and respect through work. Thats a part of our biology that we must reorient to be congruent with the values we hold.

        • Bringing back the stigma of the greasy-fingered Shylock would do wonders to push talented men back into productive work.

          The (((finance industry))) sucks up the lion’s share of truly brilliant guys and has done so for years.

    • The sensible thing any species does is conserve its energy. Laziness is natural and sound in any group of people. Hell Northern Europeans often went long periods doing nothing for good reason.
      And as for work? Doing what?
      All those fancy machines take away the need for labor and make much of what remains is either too poorly paid for a dignified family life or too specialized for the 90% of people with an IQ under 120 including Whites BTW.
      Technophiles and efficiency cuts than whine about welfare having to be paid to the people they laid off. Homie, you don’t exist in a vacuum and your kiosk, automation , free trade, Uber or whatever else is someone else’s living.
      You want them to have god kids they will need income, the more urban, the more cost for security and other expenses.
      And if you think that it isn’t fragile, hah hah hah no.
      Good odds that all those cities that have imploded won’t come back . Its not just Zoom making some office work obsolete but the proliferation of virtual goods, Amazon and a hundred other things.
      Without jobs, the only way to get buy is welfare or violence or Communism.
      And note if our enemies weren’t so crazy and there wasn’t an aging hotelier in the way they’d be pushing much more of it and in a few years Comrade Bernie’s chosen successor would be running the USSR .
      It wiuld be Socialism O Muerte and boxcars all the way down.
      And you’d deserve it too.
      You want a good society, stop freeloading and muzzle not the Ox that treadeth the corn nor repalce him in such a way as none of your tribe may buy food and must resort to begging.

  23. Damn good post.

    The US does lack a movement or ideology that encourages a new morality in us. If it is even possible, it will have to be a grassroots morality because right now there is just too much noise and bs. We apparently have a new political party who’s entire platform is “the jews, you guys” so just wading through the crap will be difficult enough.

    Perhaps even with its disadvantages, the US population can improve their odds by improving the individual and family morality. I mean, one cant expect a great movement to rise up from people who have a weekly date with their favorite cam girl.

    Thats a bit hyperbolic, but the point is embracing a “new” morality on the individual and family level is probably where it is going to have to start since we see where these movements without a moral grounding go: “Join our movement, whites, we are your only path to status in modern society.” The National Bioleninism Justice Party for whites, seems a bit silly when you realize any biopower they are appealing to is shrinking by the day. But the worst part is even if it succeeds we are right back at the root of the problem and no closer to a path out.

    Hm…yeah maybe the US is out of luck for the time being. Realistically, anything which really challenges the current order isnt just going to challenge the character of the US, but even the last 500ish years of ideological development. Thats going to be a lot to chew on.

    • Bannon terrifies the USA police state. While what is alleged can be proven or disproven, when it was alleged is what matters. The point was to keep him as far away as possible from policy. I’ve always doubted the claims he was a leaker and suspect that was orchestrated to oust him due to his nationalist aspirations.

      • Bannon is a grifter and fixer who wears the skin of a populist, nationalist race-realist. Look at his associations and activity both before and particularly since he was in the Trump admin.

        He’s a goyisch Harzony who keeps a display copy of Evola in his bookcase right next to the Torah, Alinsky and Roger Stone’s biography.

        • the press tried to make him out to be this edgy ultra nationalist, just like they did with trump whom they called hitler.

        • Look at what Bannon has actually been charged with. His is not one of those fuzzy cases. He either illegally diverted money to his own uses, or he did not.

          • I always roll my eyes with a “wire fraud” “mail fraud” or money laundering charge. Those are always cut-and-paste charges on fraud. He probably did commit fraud, but it’s interesting that in an ocean of fraud that is 2020 they certainly had the resources for this case. I don’t see that clearly fraudulent fund that helps impoverished Eastern European jews in the crosshairs. And that’s been around since the 80s.

          • Yup. “He did it too” doesn’t carry much weight in the trial. When you have a target painted on your forehead, you’ve got to be as innocent as Caesar’s wife. The interesting thing to me is that the cancel culture mentality includes judgement on everything you have ever said and done, in your whole life, and sometimes even the lives of your parents or other family. Including the old days, when the rules of acceptable speech and behavior were quite different. And they still can’t nail our current President. Good for him.

          • It’s a win-win for GloboShlomo. Bannon is not popular with Ehud Barak – Epstein – Lefty Jew Tribe – he’s a Bibi Jignat.

            By knee-capping Bannon they remove a contentious goy who played the national populist White thing a little too straight for their tastes and they discredit The Wall as a TrumpHitler scam the public has rejected, never to be mentioned again.

            Jignats will be satisfied with the “no Wall” part and Steve doesn’t have the Jewce he used to. They might go light on him but his own faction probably doesn’t worry about his fate too much. Plenty more hotter newer shabbos goys to market on the Right.

          • Bannon got the boot by Trump a couple of years ago and no one really cares about him these days or trusts him.
            It is a symbolic thing though, in New York by the Postal Service on a Trump boat apparently.
            Its a kind of horse’s head in the bed deal. Its also a very bad idea as it tells people that this is a gangster state and lacks legitimacy.

        • I disagree with you sometimes, Exile, but always find you to be forthright. I’ll check into that.

  24. Buckleyite Conservatism is a failed ideology, in many ways more discredited than communism if that is even possible. It muddled along as long as it did because it was seen as the only alternative to Marxism/Progressivism. As you point out, its failure was baked into the cake. People only recently caught onto the fact that Buckleyite Conservatism was a slow motion form of Progressivism.

    There is a huge, yawning gap between Americans and the United States as it exists today. Americans don’t have to really jettison their history so much as make certain they survive as a people. Our culture and history and traditions need to be maintained, but under a system that will allow it. Obviously the totalitarian State that now exists and is expanding out of control will not permit us to exist as a people. Passive ethnonationalism is the key to victory. I thoroughly agree with Greg Johnson that we have to make the point that this is a moral issue for Whites. A de facto ethnostate is possible. The Amish already have one, and while reservations obviously are horrible, so do Indian tribes.

    As I’ve previously written, there really is only one sound reason to vote for Trump’s re-election and that is it will lead to the Left dropping all pretense and not honoring or trying to overturn the results. Trump very well may lose, but the only way to demonstrate the system is totally illegitimate is for him to win and have the results ignored. The failed coup already demonstrated as much but it was a bit too subtle for most Americans to realize what it represented. With any luck, sections of the Left would secede rather than acknowledge the results. This is the only semi-peaceful solution.

    • I once saw Buckley throw a debate against Galbraith in the early 90s. I was right there in the auditorium. One of my first political experiences as a teenager. And I knew then that Buckley was a Huckster. A primordial version of some of the ones we have today. His son Christopher, a lib, wrote “Thank you for Smoking,” one of the most cynical and entertaining pieces of literature in the last 30 years. Where did he get this cynicism? Perhaps watching his grifter father pay the mortgage?

      • Buckley was more than happy to support the Vietnam War while making sure his children never entered it.
        He was the very definition of having no skin in the game.and it showed.

  25. I just don’t know if we featherless bipeds can make nationalism work without having some sort of metaphysical belief tagged along to it. Blood and soil sounds great but when combined with high explosives, we get 20th century round two. Zman is correct that ethics and respect are the groundings for this New Theory but I don’t know if you can get to ethics and respect logically, by reason alone. There’s a reason for Throne and Altar when we get down to it.

    At any rate, the religious are the ones breeding in whitelands so this problem might solve itself….

    • Do we have data on how many people raised evangelical / trad cath actually stay conservative and don’t get pozzed?

      Evangelicals might have an average of 2.5 children but if only 50% stay that’s essentially a fertility rate of 1.25 basically the same as liberals.

      Anyways I never felt like evangelicals are going to fight for anything. Mostly good people with good values but they’re just going to be praying to Jeebus no matter who is in charge.

      Most of “the right” are followers like that – we need leaders.

      • The Evangelical movement may have collapsed
        From what I hear its fertility is not much higher than secular these days and retention is pretty low.
        The LDS are doing not much better.
        The only groups that do well are those that have elaborate customs to keep themselves away from modernity. Amish, Orthodox Jews and the like.
        Modernity must go in order for a property society but I don’t know how, other than a spate of barbarism or a collapse to deal it out of the picture.
        And note to Space Bugs and Elon will Save Us types. Nope. You can rockets or children not both. Our TFR was at end game levels by 1973, a mere four years after the moonwalk , its related to modernity which is required for space.

    • Belief in Jesus is as White as it gets, friend. Don’t just get right with God, get White with God.

      • Humans are much too complex for our existence and unnecessary self-awareness to sustain this long. The known universe is entropic by definition. My brain should not exist and it has no need to appreciate music or engage powerful mathematical theorems and solve extensive equations. Yet those aspects persist. God is real, and Jesus Christ is my Savior; I know this much.

        • I’d rather have an AR-15 for my savior. at least while there are negroes in the vicinity…

    • That’s why I’d like to appreciate, yet distance myself, from a certain Book.

      They were talking about their People, the “sons of Adam”, not all humankind.

      Their God, their pantheon, the elohim (the gods, -im is plural), as supreme above the invaders.

      They were dealing with the same problem as we are, but with a major difference.

      We were the invaders, and superior to them. Our cosmological speculation was that of engineers, as in “how did it begin? How does it work? What are the stars?”

      They were and are second-raters; their cosmological model is that of chastised women or children, “what did we do wrong? How do we win Daddy’s favor?”

      An emotional, hindbrain based model that gives the edge in matters social.

      Thus, they selected for cushy HR jobs in the preisthood, or seeking nomadic merchantry and independence, grinding with resentment when they had to labor for bread from those above.

      In the priesthood, their elites merged our cosmological query with their children’s morality and superhero tales, elevating emotion over ability.

      I’d like to turn those tables, lifting function to the equal of feeling.

      We are hobbled, in insisting that their Word is the final word.

  26. The phrase “all men are created equal” refers (as I understand it) to the individual’s moral or spiritual worth and their standing before the law. The authors never intended the phrase to mean “all men have exactly the same talents and abilities,” much less that “everyone has to have the same positive outcome” — which is what the phrase has been twisted to mean these days.

    The obvious fact is, men have different talents, different characters, different goals –so outcomes will always be different. If the differences in talent and skills are race-based to some extent, well, that is just how it is. I accept that I will never be a world class marathon runner because of my genetic makeup. Other groups have to accept (contrary to progressive dogma) that they will never produce large numbers of nuclear physicists or rocket scientists. The lie that everyone has a right to expect equal outcomes has defined the last century, We absolutely have to get beyond it as a nation or we are doomed.

    • We are presumed equal at birth and thereafter facts and law will tend to demonstrate various inequalities that play out over time, some sooner and some later.

      The logic flaw in the enemy’s “religion” is they truly believe equality must persist throughout an individual’s lifetime. It does not, clearly.

      I used to be enabled to bench press well more than three-hundred pounds. Today I am over age fifty and can manage a bit more than half that weight in the bench press. I have demonstrably declined and, yet, following the enemy’s religion a strapping twenty-year old, if they still exist, should be hectored and loaded with Harrison Bergeron weights to prevent him from embarrassing me in a weightlifting competition that I have no business competing in due to my limitations. This is what they demand, and it is a religion.

    • My experience is that most all Lefties can accept individual differences among men. It’s when one compares “group” differences that they become resistant.

      • i don’t know, seems like they need to pretend that everyone is exactly like every one else. retards aren’t retarded, the lame can run, the blind can see, etc etc etc

      • Even among groups might be ok, as long as it’s not a race. But then, maybe I’m a groupist?

    • Either interpretation of your cherished lie is still a lie. No one is created equal in any way; this is how the Lord made us, and to rebel against that fact of nature is to rebel against truth and Heaven.

    • That ‘obvious fact’ is neither obvious, nor a fact to the vast majority of the melanin enriched population, media, various other…minorities.., college campi denizens nationwide – and no small segment of the political class, mainline religious denominations, Fed, state, local court systems, Sportsball Inc (ironically), and sundry pathological altruists.
      With those few minor exceptions, I agree.

    • Equality before the law was the idea. It’s gone now. Soros bought DAs in Portland, Seattle, Chicago and New York are running it in our faces. Beat up a passerby while wearing Antifa or BLM colors – no charges. Wearing Proud Boy colors – 3 years for felony assualt.

      This new inequality of law enforcement will do more to get Whitey to break with the past than anything else.

  27. There’s no “solution” to the universal and eternal problem of sinful/flawed men. There are only accommodations of varying effectiveness.

    This central insight of old timey cravats and pince nez style conservatism is absolutely correct. Conservatism Inc types went off the rails when it abandoned the idea of sin and mulatto cross dressers paying low capital gains tax became their new Eden. Not like those evil dems and their dream of a hellscape with mulatto cross dressers paying high capital gains tax!

    Nationalism is one of the best and most important accommodations, but contra Hollywood – it’s no final solution.

  28. Yes. We need that magic 80-85% supermajority to keep the peace and maintain stability. Were culture enough, we could go civnat but culture and ethnicity seem intertwined, few exceptions granted.

    As far as a definition of conservatism, I think it should be explicitly founded on human nature. Keep what’s in harmony with it, discard what isn’t. Humans being social creatures, it isn’t an endorsement of law of the jungle. Lefty tries to change nature. That’s the real failure, and it should be hammered incessantly.

    Equality of nature is a misreading of Jefferson imo. He was clearly talking about equality of natural rights, which is no guarantee of equality of outcome, or even equality under the laws of men. Another point to hammer.

  29. The frontier is the key.

    The whole structure of US history is rotten. The shining city on the hill is literally Puritanism. Fine, they are Americans too, but American history should emphasize they got here SECOND. America was founded at Jamestown. We have forgotten that after decades of Yankee control. Massachusetts not only won, they took sole ownership of America’s founding.

    Any rescue of the American people has to emphasize the men of Virginia, not Plymouth and definitely no William Penn’s followers. That way is invade the world, invite the world theology. Of course, you must side step the Lockean obsession with property within the South’s plantation dominated elite.

    Old America was obsessed with the Western precisely because they remembered settling the America.

    • Actors like Ward Bond, born in western Nebraska, were literally the children of pioneers. There is a certain authentic edge to them that still comes across the screen after all these decades.

    • I don’t see it. Yes, the fighting kicked off in the Commonwealth, but when it came to representation in the Continental Congress(es) PA sent the most reps, followed by VA, SC, NJ and then MA. Regarding religion Anglicans dominated, followed by various Protestant denominations, nonconformists, and Roman Catholics.

    • I personally relate to my Pennsylvania German ancestors more than the New England Puritans or the Second Sons of wealthy landowners in Virginia.

      I doubt I am alone in this.

  30. Again: Insight after insight after insight. Who IS this guy? With one phrase he launches what could be the answer. Or, put differently, the biggest white-pill in modern American history: The solution to the hard-nut large-society problem is “a passive ethno-nationalism organized around group identity and rights.”

    • He’s kept this peak for years now.
      Z’s a ratchet. Each day is one click higher and better.

      Yesterday, I read about the good King Carlos of Spain, a steady flagpole, the face of the nation. Europe has more than proportional voting to offer.

        • No, that’s the socialistas government in campaign mode, same as here.

          Corruption. By the most capable, quiet, moderate king in 500 years.
          God, I despise those filth.

    • Enough with the dick sucking.

      We follow Z for his ideas, which are relevant and clear.

      No need to worship him though.

      • b123, it’s not clear you have the IQ to discern transforming insights when you see them. I express myself the way I see fit, so you can suck your own dick for all I care.

  31. In liberal eyes conservatism is/was only good for convincing whites from the south to fight the jewish wars, which lead to suffering of people from Middle East & Europe(migrant crisis).
    All these people died(including american soldiers) just to satisfy whims of soros tribe leaders.

    • Pretty sure there’s still a lot of normiecons who live in deathly fear of that huge ISIS Navy cruising just outside our 200 mile territorial limit – just waiting for the right moment to invade…………….

      • ISIS was an(other) Israeli proxy that murdered Christians and fomented regional war (that they also wanted the US trapped in). We should absolutely celebrate ISIS being crushed.

  32. Evolution precedes biology, and by extension, everything else. What this means is that we are adapting to the modern world of affluence and post existential hardship and threat. Instead of a natural environment that culls the herd of the stupid and weak, we now live in an artificial environment that promotes parasitism, obesity, and hive-minded conformity. We are devolving into an insect-like species. And a newfangled political philosophy is not going to cure that.

    • evolution is imaginary doctrine of prometheans, if you mean to say adaptation then sure, living organisms can adapt to all sorts of conditions.
      Robots functions like insects, that is true, this is what elites promote, but humans stay the same, no evolution there.
      The fact that enlightenment failed to change man into an atheistic drone makes them hate us even more. Now they want to fry our brains with chips(chips will induce pain into human brain if you do not submit) & vaccinate us into oblivion.

    • It’s very likely that such a conditional will not be sustainable. Therefore, the question is, What comes after?

    • That world is built upon massive amounts of “borrowed” and printed money though.

      So it’s a world built on financial quicksand.

      It’s also built on “easy” energy. If peak oil really is a thing (I’m not sure that it is) – then much of the modern world may be on the verge of disappearing.

      Much of the incentive behind locking everybody down because of the corona virus – seems to be coming from elite elements who want to push the whole “green society” agenda.

      People like Kunstler are claiming that the modern world is on the verge of collapse – and we’re going to go back to something more akin to the way life was lived in the 1800s. There will be a certain level of technology , but not all of the mass production and shipping shit over from China that we see now. He calls it “a world made by hand”. I don’t know if I believe him – but that viewpoint is definitely out there.

      This modern world you refer to hasn’t really been around all that long. Definitely not long enough to have affected evolution. We’re dealing with a mindset problem -not an evolutionary change.

      We live in a society that has had a “progressive” set of laws applied over it that ENFORCE “safety”. Seatbelt laws, car seats, air bags, OSHA laws, emissions laws – etc. The list is endless and is something I recognized 30 years ago as an increasing problem because it requires tyranny to really enforce reliably.

      • peak oil is made up nonsense. find the earliest mention in the press, then find all the new oil fields found since then. then add in fracking. did you know that traditional oil pumping only reaches the easiest 1/3 of oil, in a given field? the world will be running on nuclear energy before oil runs out.

        key point is energy density. how many pounds of oil, does it take to match the energy in one pound of uranium? 2m. that’s right, uranium is two million times as energy dense as oil. and that’s also why climate alarmism is so nonsensical.

        • Peak oil has been a thing almost since Col. Drake first ‘discovered’ it in PA. What’s the line on energy density of uranium vs wind and solar power? (I suspect my calculator doesn’t have enough 0’s)

  33. “the closest America ever came to having a genuine conservative alternative to Northern Progressivism ended in the Civil War”

    Zman, would you please elaborate on this point? I don’t disagree; I am just curious what you are referring to.

    In my mind, it was prohibition, emancipation, and income tax amendments that put paid to our republic.

    we may not be able to vote our way out of trouble, but we might be able to repeal our way out 😛

  34. “The Right then comes in to clean up after them” what do conservative’s like to eat the most? cream pies.

  35. It’s bizarre that the Declaration of Independence has come to constitute a statement of radical racial equality when such a view was the opposite of what the author of that document believed.

    • The people who elevated the DOI used a familiar slight of hand. They read the DOI literally, but everything else is open to wide interpretation. That way they don’t have to square the fact that the man who wrote that “all men are created equal” also owned slaves.

    • The document is a list of legal transgressions committed by the King and made the case as to why this constituted the grounds for severing ties. The “all men are created equal” phrase was meant to distill the arguments that would follow into a simple statement. Jefferson was referencing the equality the colonists had a right to expect as subjects of the king.

      • Yes, I’ve understood that phrase to be the explicit rejection of the Divine Right claimed by nobility and that the author was asserting that this claim was unjust and made invalid by the gross injustices inflicted by the noble upon the common. It’s a statement that indicates that our new nation will consider all men equal before the law and God, with no special privileges by birth invoked to settle disputes. It’s aspirational rather than practical in many ways, as we know, since money and power move to create rank and with it, privilege, and therefore as a practical, special rights. It’s human nature. Things eventually devolve into “Some animals are more equal than others” given enough time.

  36. One step forward is to stop emphasizing rights. How about shifing the focus to responsibility and mutual respect? It could undermine the left and increase the appeal of the dissident right.

    • Normies on the right are incredibly delusional on this. When say that they should care about their own people first I’m Hitler, when I say their “rights” only exist within their own group I’m Stalin.

      • When say that they should care about their own people first I’m Hitler, when I say their “rights” only exist within their own group I’m Stalin.

        To paraphrase what others have said, tell them that [depending on their age] their children or grandchildren will grow up in a society as a despised minority.

        • A lot of people value their own comfort more than their children’s future. Children are a lifestyle accessory and an expense category to them.

          Think of the prototypical boomers spending all their legacy on RVs, harleys, les pauls , signed negromabilia for the “man cave” (built to escape nagging second or third wives)… and of course calling their kids entitled millennials who should work harder at starbucks.

          These people would let anything happen their kids rather than face the social problem associated with the scarlet R.

    • The post-Terror French Constitution tried this. It was quickly forgotten when General Bonaparte showed up.

    • “Rules,” Raymond, rules. They are how you “shift the focus to responsibility and mutual respect”; they are what you implement to maintain the foundation of “a passive ethno-nationalism organized around group identity and rights.” America stopped enforcing the rules and started creating counterproductive rules (aka “laws”), both of which undermined our group identity as Americans with rights under the Constitution. That didn’t work. So now it may be time to try Zman’s prescription, which bodes pretty well.

      • The problems really started when it was decided that breaking the rules was OK if breaking them was associated with some sort of higher calling. (IMO, it was a bastardization of what it means to be a Christian, but that is a discussion for another day). Once it was decided to accept that looting, burning, or killing people was acceptable because it was to “make things better” or it was “understandable rage”, things went off the rails.

  37. I am 80s born, new father increasingly convinced that on our present course there will be no choice but to die holding a rifle.

    Prove me wrong.

    • I’d choose dying peacefully in white America, proud that I did not flee my country in its hour of greatest need, happy that I survived the bloody struggle, and content that my grandchildren may now thrive in a country build for them.

      • Despite his somewhat black-pilled comment, Vespers action of making a child demonstrate he is willing to try to build a future. God bless him.

        • he’s an attention whore. but glad to have another white kid. hopefully he won’t be so fearful as his father…

          • If you are not afraid when confronting the prospect that an enemy approaches to do you and the people you love mortal harm then you either are a tier one operator in the military with your team or an effing loon. And I don’t see any stripes, sonny.

          • if he’s that afraid now, what is he going to be like when things get really bad? you and he are good examples of what zman calls “mailbox people” 🙂

          • increasingly convinced that on our present course there will be no choice but to die holding a rifle” smells like piss stained pants.

          • Maybe you’re projecting how you feel when you’re concerned about something.
            I read no fear in NA Vespers post. I’m concerned about the future also, mainly because of my grandson and every other young person. So I should not have had a son, who then had a son?
            Seems like you try to be the attention whore here. Lighten up, if you can.

          • maybe the guy talking like a character from “The Searchers” should lighten up. you sound awfully cuckish; just sayin’

          • Karl is known to exhibit anti-social behavior here. He uses similar attack vectors as “Krazy” Karl Denninger and so it’s my belief they are one in the same individual. When posting as Denninger, at least, he has a lot to offer in terms of analyzing health care.

      • My wife says this to me on occasion when I bring up the topic of how much of a shit-show the future may well be given all that is going on.

        When she does that – I really have to resist the urge to slap her right across the face.

        What I usually do is remind her of when her mother was born: 1933. Go look at the damn history. Hitler came into power. There was a worldwide depression. Japan was screwing around with China. Commies were infesting the US. The Soviet Union was jamming people into Gulags.

        Point here is – the world has always been a shitshow. And I remind her of that – and then tell her that her crappy attitude is basically making the argument is that her mother should have never been born – which would mean SHE shouldn’t have been born. If you really feel that way – go kill yourself and follow thru on your convictions.

        The short answer is : you have kids because if you don’t show up for the future – somebody else will – and that means they “win”.

        I say all of this as the 55 year old father – of a 21 month old red-haired white son.

        The last argument is more of an existential one: Because it’s your obligation as a child of God. I’ve seen a unique argument made by some people much more religious than me in regards to using a gun to defend yourself. Their argument was basically this: God has given you your life – it’s not up to you to decide whether or not to end that life. That’s why suicide is frowned upon. But it also applies to being attacked by a person who intends on taking your life. It’s up to you to defend – and not accede to the evil of wanting to take another’s life (in this case ….. yours).

        The same logic would apply towards having children: It’s not up to you to decide your family line is going to end. For 10’s of thousands of years your forebears have reproduced and have made it so that YOU could exist.

        It’s the height of selfishness to decide to not continue that effort just because the future might look a little bit shitty.

        • you have my sincere sympathy; re: being a new father at 55. that kid is going to kill you…

          • That kid is the best thing that’s ever happened to me. He’s awesome. And quite frankly I’ve probably lost more years off my life having to deal with crazy women – than I have having to deal with him.

            I like a lot of your posts – but you seem to be going out of your way to vote yourself into the “people who aren’t a solution to the problem” group.

            If there’s going to be any homeland for white people – there’s going to have to be some actual white people to populate the homeland.

          • I had a kid at 45, so I can only imagine what having one at 55 would feel like 🙂 good luck with the little fellow!

          • Substandard. You sport the budget McHungus when most men here are truly Hungus-Among-Us. I hear tell Z himself is a giant among men. You OTOH compare to packets of McKetchup, McMustard and McRelish.

        • if a person sincerely believes a hot war is imminent, the last thing they should do is have a kid. they should be at the range every day, training every day, etc. if. now if they are attention seeking drama queens…

          • Both of my parents were born in the middle of WW2. So apparently they shouldn’t have been born? On my mother’s side especially – my grandparents were older when they had her – and were deeply affected by the Depression.
            Yet in the middle of a world war – with tens of millions dying – they still found some way to have some hope for the future and have a kid.

            Seriousl, I will repeat – you’re voting yourself off the island with this attitude. No white kids = no white future.

            So you’re arguing for pure selfishness? That’s what got us here in the first place IMHO. So you’re admitting you’re the problem – and not the solution.

          • but did your grandfather stand up in a crowded room and attention whore? which is *my* point. still enjoyed hearing about your exciting history 🙂

          • “if a person sincerely believes a hot war is imminent”

            I’ve thought a lot about this too. I’ve personally never MET anyone whose behavior suggests they REALLY believe war is imminent (not in the “revealed preferences” sense). If we REALLY thought that we’d be behaving an awful lot differently (I just bought an expensive new dishwasher, for example). I think the civil war tomorrow thing is basically another LARP.

            On the other hand a LOT of people believe a hot war is very likely coming, someday, somewhere. Might be a few years, maybe our lifetime, maybe kids or grandkids lifetime… Which is, at the level of practice, an entirely different thing.

            Like living in a coastal area prone to hurricanes vs. knowing one is offshore and projected to landfall in your town.

          • War includes a large component of offensive action which the Right is not prepared for.
            They are prepared to defend which is half of it I suppose but not a winning strategy long haul against a serious foe.
            This is a noted flaw in America culture. An Italian Commie , name escapes me once said Americans remnded him of attack dogs, vicious and dangerous at defending their own space but little sense of anything collective or outside that space.
            Hell half the DR would happily let all the cities fall into ruin and turn the remains into say I dunno a military fort instead of living in a urban area.
            As a country boy trapped in suburbia I get it but its not compatible with other stated goals.
            We talk about having more kids all the time but once we have numbers they cannot all live in small towns and in the country.
            You will have cities with all the troubles associated with them.

        • Congratulations on your little one. Both my parents were pushing 50 when they had my oldest sibling – and it wasn’t for lack of trying. They were both scout leaders and our dad coached Little League and Pop Warner. In fact I had plenty of friends whose parents were as old as mine (although they tended to be the younger kids of big Irish families.)

          • Wow . That’s so gracious of you. But I don’t consider myself a boomer and I’m not black. I’ve said this before – but that whole “baby boom generation” thing has been something the media has been funging with for decades. Back in the 80s my age group was always referred to as GenX. Somewhere along the line they started calling us baby boom kids – even though we were 20 years out from the end of WW2 – and both of my parents were in their single digit years when the war ended.

            Maybe some of you guys are losing your memories in your advanced years – but the kids who grew up in the 70s and 80s shared little to nothing with the kids who grew up in the 50s and 60s (the true ‘baby boom’ generation kids). By the time I was born – the birth rate was already headed down.

      • GTFO you retard. I saw you in a thread the other day unironically asking if DR conferences were a good place to pick up girls. Kill yourself.

        • Assail not the McHungus.

          He is of a different species, and knows not guilt nor innocence.

          (And as for Layabout, I am shamed and sullied! I abase myself before all, and must do penance!

          Away, Tempter, I succumbed to vileness!

          I now pronounce… Ewwww, gross!)

          • Call me Caliban. nice to have you back! was just thinking of your avatar with the flaming paper bag 😛

      • Karl, better to remain silent and have others wonder if you are retarded than to open your mouth and prove it so.

        • yah, you put me in my place. cause there’s no way I am several standard deviations smarter than you. no more than 99.9999% of a chance. people like you, wait on people like me.

    • This “Nation of Immigrants” can become a “Nation of Emigrants”.

      Your ancestors had the courage to pull up stakes and head for greener pastures. I think about this a great deal.

        • Space. Greenland. Patagonia. The former blue collar industrial territory in the US destroyed by greed. Space is the least likely and the former blue collar territory the easiest and thus most likely to reoccupy. We have a lot of water here in the Great Lakes.

          • A Reconquista, yes. The assets can be remodeled.

            First, though, we must endure, until the locusts have starved to weakness- as they will.

            For example, Zimbabwe: let them starve and murder. That’s why the Dutch found an empty land in the first place.

            The global population has outstripped its food supply.

            Can we withdraw, for long enough?

          • Stop running. For a lot less energy and not much more risk, organized men can take land and build the polity they want.
            Also space is not possible period . No tech to do, far too expensive.
            Fact is no matter what choices we make, its far far more probable our descendants will not go the the starts but will farm and have horse drawn wagons.

          • In the agrarian future you envision, neither I nor anyone else knows what the racial blend will be. However, I suspect there is pretty good science to project a considerably smaller population than the present 🙁

        • Why is this a CONSTANT thing with “you people”? Why the hell should WE go? THEY need to go.

          This is exactly why we’re going to lose. First because your inherent reaction seems to be to run, and secondly because there isn’t anywhere to run to.

          • Math’s a biotch. Tell us how you intend to “make them go.” I am not a defeatist. I am however good at math, and it doesn’t operate in our favor.

          • because you know everything. and yet, you are a loser, with a loser’s mentality. a Lost Boy…

          • The math of war doesn’t operate purely on “my army is bigger than yours”

            It operates with willpower as a main deciding factor.

            Anybody whose studied the German campaigns during WW2 against the Russians should know this. It’s something all those BLM and Antifah shits are demonstrating on a daily basis – and have been demostrating for something like 80 days now. We can’t even get pissed off when our 5 year old sons are shot in the head.

            All you guys are demonstrating is that you have no will. That means no matter how much numbers you have – you’re going to lose.

            That makes pretty much everything discussed here a no-op, because you will NEVER win. And that reduces all Z-mans articles – and all the comments -into nothing more than doomer porn.

            Hope you all have fun jerking yourself off into the darkie apocalypse.

          • You need calm the fuck down and take a breath… Look until you build your army fighting would hurt your cause more than help it…If you can’t even do the little things like forming up with the like-minded and getting your logistics in order then your not going to have the stones to fight either…Also if you want to call everyone a coward but hide out and never meet anyone face to face well then your just projecting your fear and ignorance…I have always enjoyed your post but this one reeks of fear or desperation…

          • Age, probably. I’ve seen 50 years of ‘muh conservatism failing hard. The tide is very, very much against us here; last minute sandbagging isn’t going to stop the ocean wave headed our way.

            There are imperfect, but arguably better, places to go to. But they’re not cheap, and you will always be the outsider.
            Californians are doing this inter-state right now; it’s a small leap from that to head to greener pastures internationally.

          • Well then all that’s REALLY getting discussed here is a very small portion of the white population here in the US saving their own asses.

            Because the vast bulk of the millions who live here – aren’t going to be able to flee ANYWHERE but state to state.

            So what you’re really talking about is just saving your own ass – not “saving the white race’

            I don’t know where you think you’re going to go internationally , most countries have pretty strict immigration laws. I’d suggest doing some actual research on this before getting the fantasy too deeply set in your head that there is anywhere to run away to.

          • ”I don’t know where you think you’re going to go internationally , most countries have pretty strict immigration laws.”

            It seems to be a matter of faith for a certain type of defeatist that prosperous educated americans are unwelcome in other countries. A few minutes of research can correct this impression… but I just wonder if you’ve never even BEEN ANYWHERE or MET ANYONE?

            Expats are kind of a thing.

            If the horrible part of globalism is that it lets anyone and everyone come here, the slight recompense is that it ALSO makes it easier to go THERE.

          • Simplified: the best places will never give you citizenship. You might be allowed to stay as a guest but only if you are filthy rich.
            The so-so places might be ok, and even have a stable (not to say democratic) government and racial mix more to your taste. Even being able to work (legally) will be a major impediment. A lot of assets will help with residency/passport but probably that is out of reach for readers here.
            The not so nice places are worse than what we already have here. Finally, there is the issue of where do you keep your assets? As a US citizen you are taxed anywhere. It is problematic to find another country to safely store your wealth, especially if you need to keep the US/EU/Interpol/etc. hands out of it. If things get really bad in the USA, it is equally likely that things will fray pretty badly in the periphery too.
            Unless you are truly a nomad or have close ties to some foreign land, like it or not we are stuck on this roller coaster called the USA

          • I’m all for fighting for our land, but the original post references “pull up stakes and head for greener pastures.”

            If you’re a Heritage American, multiple generations of your ancestors did exactly that.

          • More than half my family was already here before there was a nation. I am a Native American of European Descent. I have nowhere else to go. When it comes to it, I choose fight.

          • Same here. Both sides of the family. As far as I know they didn’t come looking for greener pastures either. One side was British military, the other Irish. As far as I know 😉 (teenage girly emoticon)

          • Yup. I’m Canadian.

            It doesn’t mean much today since we have so many paper Canadians… but they know it and I know it.

            I’m not *English* or *German* or whatever my ancestors were. The left says we’re all immigrants but I’m not.

          • Same here – can trace family back to 100 years before the Revolution. My grandmother told me that a good part of the family fled to Newfoundland after the revolutionaries won. So apparently most of them were loyalists (but not all).

            And thru all of those generations – the family tree has stayed pretty much “clean”, in that it didn’t marry too far outside of Anglo-Saxon or French lineage.

            So there’s nowhere to go back to. Great Britain and France have both filled themselves up with interlopers.

            Maybe Greenland? Yeah Greenland – that’s it – that sounds like a great idea.

          • It has already come to it.

            Who lives next door? Are they going to choose to fight with you? How many of your neighboring families can you trust to fight with you?

            Who are you going to fight? How? Where?

            You need to have plans for this in place and people to carry them out. Are you doing that?

          • Fight for what? Until you have a goal, you have no will.
            You are not fighting for peace and prosperity . You are fighting to live among people with similar customs and ethnicity or optionally in order to take power to enforce your customs on people.
            Our side lacks the crucial will to power and until its unfucks itself and say “I want to live in X social conditions and non cooperators will be expelled, punished or executed as needed.” it can’t do anything offensive.
            Forget your life, forget money , its 100% ideology all the way down and building that future for your people. You may never see it either.
            As messed up an ideology as it is by our standards The Left including Antifa gets this. That is worthy of respect in my book.

          • Then make it count for God’s sake and fight with your Brother’s on the left and right of you so you know victory and not shame and defeat…

          • And where are you going to go? It’s not 1650 any more – or even 1850 for that matter. There’s how many BILLIONS of people on the planet?

            I see suggestions for Greenland, Mars – and upper Canada. Translation= “I’m a moron”. Those places are uninhabited FOR A REASON.

            There is nowhere to go. There is no more western frontier. And unless you plan on building a colonial army and killing darkies by the 100’s of thousands places like Africa are even off-limits. And if you were going to do that – why not fight to defend THIS place?

            All I see is whining and defeatism. Seems like just an extension of failure from all those decades of “conservatism” that Zman was talking about.

          • This continent selected for people who could thrive on the frontier, be that 17th Century Pennsylvania, 1820’s Minnesota, or 1880’s Arizona. Those who could hack it thrived and reproduced, and those back in Europe with the inclination to try were the ones who got on the boats.

            We don’t have that now. That’s simply a statement of fact. It’s a biological reality that needs to be dealt with.

          • All I see from you is inchoate frustration and demands that we all stand and fight – no plan or purpose.

          • Not too many people are looking to establish a jamestown colony or build Praetoria. There are cities you can settle in all over the world.

            Staying to fight is fine but unless and until people have a general will to do it that’s just telling people to commit suicide on the way to handing the bad guys a massive PR victory.

          • Again – WHAT greener pastures? Where is that Mars? Greenland?

            I’m supposed to take those suggestions seriously?

            You say our ancestors came here because they were pulling up stakes and heading for greener pastures – well another thing they did – was fight for the land they came to. The “natives” who were here – still bitch to this day about how whitey pushed them out.

            If you’re going to compare the present day people to what our ancestors did – maybe you ought to be making the analogy to how they pushed out the natives – instead of one about how they fled.

            There is nowhere to run to. There is however a possibility of pushing out the invaders. And there’s plenty of historical examples of this happening once the populations started not getting along.

          • I hang my head. I’m thinking “hunker down”, but we are still the numerical majority. If we had a government that backed us, we could go all WWII on some ungrateful asses.

            We did it before. Materiel production in WWll was nothing short of astounding.

            Dads, a sailor during and after, said that “after the War, we were gods”.

            I probably have a dozen other siblings I’ll never meet, from Japan to Africa to Venezuela.

          • At the very least I don’t see any point in giving the people who engage in defeatist thinking a free pass by not saying anything.

            And all of the suggestions about forming a new country in the Midwest, running away to places like Greenland or upper Canada – or emigrating to some unnamed magical country where whitey can live in peace – deserve to be called out for idiocy that they are.

            Magical thinking will NOT solve the problem. Maybe once that is beaten back some people who don’t have their heads stuck firmly in their asses on this whole subject can finally get a hearing.

            Under the theory that if you don’t know what the right answer is – the least you can do is not believe in the wrong answer – I will continue to refuse to entertain any of the dumbassery coming out a lot of the “right” wing these days on what the solution to the overall problem is.

          • We’ve had this conversation a dozen times before.

            You can’t tell THEM to go unless and until YOU have enough guys to make THEM go – and enough influence to keep YOU from getting from being arrested in the process.

            If YOU live someplace like Lagos, MD, St. Louis, NYC or Los Angeles there aren’t enough of YOU to make THEM leave.

            And is fighting for the needle point of a fragile supply chain that’s dependent on the countryside for food, water and every basic necessity worth it?

            Regrouping on more defensible ground is rallying, not running.

            Choosing to die alone on Shithole Hill because you refuse to organize and act in a group with common purpose is hardly going to make THEM leave.

            The DR has far too many one-man-armies and wannabe Generals than soldiers.

          • I agree with your general point except

            ”If YOU live someplace like Lagos, MD, St. Louis, NYC or Los Angeles there aren’t enough of YOU to make THEM leave”

            If by YOU you mean whites there’s WAY MORE than enough of us to make them leave. There’s not enough will and there’s too many of us on the other side.

            White South Africans could absolutely deport or exterminate every black there, huge numbers of low IQ disorganized people are not a threat. The problem is the opposition from whites elsewhere and lack of unity within.

          • The problem is the opposition from whites elsewhere and lack of unity within.
            So do you really think that there will ever be unity in a city where no one trust their fellow man???
            If your answer is no then why would you even think about staying in the city where it would be just you fighting against everyone else…

          • ”This is exactly why we’re going to lose.”

            Ok now I’m confused… should we stay and fight because we can win, or run because we’re going to lose.

            You seem to be advocating stay and fight SO we can lose and that doesn’t compute as a strategy for people interested in their racial OR individual family survival.

          • You need an ocean, bubba. Trade for commodities is a necessary thang, and the intermountain west lacks an ocean. The US south will be Mexico-Honduras soon enough, and it doesn’t have enough fresh water or arable land. We need the top third of the US from Maine to Alaska joined with Alberta and then we’ll have a sustainable homeland. Blacks are already self-deporting up there and heading to the warmer climes. You may not have received the news but we who live up here hear about this “crisis of fleeing blacks” (oh no! we must be doing something wrong!) and our nipples get hard they are doing the heavy lifting for us.

          • We want fresh water more than salt.

            I’m all for merging US and Canadian Whites but the most problematic parts of Canada are in the East within 200 miles of the US border (something like 80% of Canada’s population).

            The wild portions along the NE border, above the UP of Michigan and all the way West are prime territory for Our Guys.

        • That’s why Whitney’s comment about nomadism got me thinking about the near future- into the interstices of cultural territory, perhaps?

          Like Masonic enclaves. They wait, holding the sciences of rebuild, for civilization to fall again. That’s the meaning of the Architect’s tools, their symbol.

          Right now, we’re dealing as a people with massive non-White overpopulation. Their growth and global hypermobility are all due to means White men created.

          Enclaves may be the best we can do, for now, until the Crash.

        • Wherever the nearest largest group of based Whites live so long as you have fresh water, food and reasonable separation from ZOG and poz.

          We’re recommending the NW states, Appalachia and the Ozarks but there are a few other spots.

        • If you really believe in the doomsday scenarios for the US and/or western Europe you should be looking into eastern europe for long term settling, or asia/south america to hide out for a few years.

          This is obviously much easier for those with means, but anyone sufficiently determined could make it happen.

          I don’t think most people predicting civil war any day now REALLY believe it though, this is becoming the right wing version of saying you want your kid in a diverse school.

          • North America has too many physical advantages and too many Whites still in residence to make leaving a better option.

            We just need to bring our numbers together, organize, educate and grow the old fashioned way.

            A generation’s worth of healthy family formation will bring enormous leverage and boost our spirit as a people.

      • Yes. Like I keep telling people: I absolutely refuse to pay for reparations. I will however consider paying for repatriation.

        • offer any negro $100k to forfeit their citizenship and move back to Africa. pay them in Zimbabwe dollars 🙂

    • I’m not afraid of death. I don’t think anybody on the Zblog is.

      I could flee Canada to Europe but I’m going to live and die here.

      • A lot of guys crying about us “running away” here are afraid of living more than 15 minutes from a Wal-Mart or getting fired from their McJob.

        Risking death is hardly in the cards, sorry.

    • How about living, holding a rifle victoriously over your head a la Charlton Heston? Remember, the point of war is to make the other sumbitch die for his cause. Move to where you are with your own, for seconds (starters is have a family).

    • New father here as well. The first time I looked at my son, I knew that I would carry that fire inside of me until my death. What could he not be inspire me to do?

      The people who treat kids as some kind of onus are objectively retarded. I can’t wait to have another. Maybe a girl this time.

      • If you love your kids then get them in a Community of your people…I know you’re working on it Brother..

      • Lanky.
        Children are HUGE blessings. Have many. I’ve got 3. I wish it was 10.
        There is NOTHING more eternal and moving on earth than to look at your child and think of their future. You’ll draw on the strength of ancestors like you’ve never experienced.
        We are going to win. There is an enormous cost and it’s already charged against us. I pray we take more of their sons than ours to accomplish it.

        • Amen Moss. I pray that I will find my gifts to share with my community but nothing will make up for the fact that I never had children. The malthusian doomsdayers need not apply. They have done enough damage. All my one-and-done friends have lots of nice things and many view their kids as one more extension of that. Its sad. But also one of many aspects of a toxic landscape and broken communities. I just got back from riding horses with my niece and nephew through high sage brush and pine trees. Simple beauty all around. When people complain of the complexity and burdens of a big family, they have just lost touch with so many things that actually matter that pretty much any substantial change toward those things in our blood we have lost will reveal those truths. Modernity is full of traps such that those small moves seem impossible.

          • Screwtape,
            As a father of sons, I treasure the few men I allow to speak into my boy’s lives. Some lessons are better learned from trusted men, NOT their father.
            You probably make for an epic Uncle. Good on you. Your gift and investment in those kids will become part of the character fabric of their life. That position, cherished Uncle, is vital to the strength of a stable, healthy family.
            I lost my brother to leukemia 15 years ago. I miss him regularly and see him in my oldest son. What a gift it would be to have him in my boy’s lives now.

  38. An unexpected trip down south this past week was a pointed reminder just how much more enjoyable spending time surrounded by my Anglo/Scots-Irish brethren is.

    • That’s why I advocate for what I do Brother because living amongst your own kind makes your life a lot better and it gives you the protection you need in case a crisis arises…When more people figure that out well then we will start moving in the direction we want…

  39. This may prove to be easiest in Europe, as Europeans have a genuine conservatism in their past they can pull out of storage.

    And because we have proportional representation. If you get 2-5% of the vote, nationwide, congratulations, you’re in parliament.

    My problem is this: there have been plenty of non-con alternatives in Europe already, but every time they’re voted within striking range of real power, they are subverted by the globalists. Examples are: The Danish People’s Party, The Norwegian Progress Party, the Sweden Democrats, UKIP and Front National – and those are just the one’s I’m sure about.

    How would you avoid that this happened to /ourparty/?

    • Sam Francis wrote about this exact problem. Pat Buchanan has also written on the subject. In the case of Francis, he pointed out in the 1970’s that conservatism was doomed as soon as it engaged in the political system. The reason is it had to first accept not only the rules, but the rule maker. The Buckleyites would be condemned to constantly updating their views in order to remain in the system.

      It is one reason I advocate forming local in-person groups. Politics for dissidents is about building entryways to this side of the great divide. any engagement in conventional politics should be limited to recruitment.

      • Zman said, “any engagement in conventional politics should be limited to recruitment.”

        I add, “And voting for Trump!”

        (Oops. Sorry. I lost control there for a second.)

    • Proportional Representation would be a net positive for us. I’m hoping that a state will try this in the coming years.

      • It’s very important in the long run. The two party kosher sandwich system has been deadly effective in crushing effective dissent. We won’t get a shot at that until the major parties take more major damage though.

        • Proportional Representation is something I could see the Left getting on board with, so long as they don’t think it’s our idea.

  40. “This one makes the Straussian argument that conservatism is rooted in natural rights. ”
    The idea of natural rights is the most poisonous idea of the enlightenment. It’s literally the most progressive idea one can have.

    ““The best reason for asserting so bluntly that there are no such rights is indeed of precisely the same type as the best reason which we possess for asserting that there are no witches and the best reason which we possess for asserting that there are no unicorns: every attempt to give good reasons for believing that there are such rights has failed. The eighteenth-century philosophical defenders of natural rights sometimes suggest that the assertions which state that men possess them are self-evident truths; but we know that there are no self-evident truths. Twentieth-century moral philosophers have sometimes appealed to their and our intuitions; but one of the things that we ought to have learned form the history of moral philosophy is that the introduction of the word ‘intuition’ by a moral philosopher is always a signal that something has gone badly wrong with an argument.”


    • Be wary of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nearly all the people who post here are American or European. Virtually none have any experience living in a pre-enlightenment civilization that doesn’t recognize the existence of unalienable human rights.

      It is fine to criticize the progressive paradigm, but don’t romanticize what life was like before the enlightenment. Almost all of us, statistically, would be on the bottom, and we wouldn’t much like it.

      • I read that within about two years of the Norman invasion, every single asset in Britain had changed hands so to speak. That seems likely here too, with the judas goat whites naively thinking that darky won’t put them in his cooking pot.

        • Transition of capital & military bases from british empire to USA can be summed up as Rotschild family moving to USA.
          Where are they gonna move next? That’s their problem, they need USA, they need an empire to move to. China was supposed to be their new HQ, they built it up, starting with the opium wars when the Sassoon family(jews ofc) became the first drug dealers. But current chinese leadership trusts them not. Russians learned their lesson. There’s no one there to take the global financiers in.
          If USA collapses cause of too much vibrant diversity, then jews are fucked.

          • In which case, I might be willing to murder every single f_cking jew in cold blood I could find. Just feel I owe to them.

          • If US collapses there will be no need, the vibrant races of New York know the Brooklyn jews are filthy rich.
            If not for the cops guarding the jews what do you think is gonna happen?

          • I hate them with every scintilla of my being. Based on having formerly associated with them and even confused as one of them sufficient to hear them talk about us.

          • was even confused as one of them sufficient to hear them talk about us.
            I only communicated with a few on the internet, they’re worse than sjws.
            I can only imagine how much it enraged you being around such people.

          • I look somewhat like Trump. But I used to wear a high-quality kippah when attending Jewish events — bar/bat mitzvah, fund raisers, weddings, etc. because a portion of my business depended on dealing with them. The yarmulke still reposes somewhere in the back of my closet but I no longer accept business with them. In any case, it was horrible to listen to their scheming hatred for us goy. Particularly Christians, first and foremost they absolutely _loathe_ devout Christians with intensity of the sun. They have it coming.

          • I went to a mostly Jewish high school. I had a lot of Jewish friends. I don’t think they’re evil incarnate, but they’re tribal and they put their tribe’s interests ahead of gentiles. I can’t really fault them for that, but I don’t have to lie down for it. All it would take to displace Jewish power in the US was for White gentile people to realize that they have their own interests and that there is no harm in promoting them.

            We had a Christian nation and we deserve to have one again.

          • I really don’t care about the “jews are like us” talk.
            I’ve seen lovable people in all sorts races & religions. Does that mean anything?
            You can have this talk from different perspectives.
            From an ideological pov(the most important one actually) is that jewish doctrine exists to justify slavery & to commit heinous acts, back in the old days people converted to judaism cause they wanted to sin, christianity did not tolerate such twisted people.
            From historical pov I know the jewish modus operandi, how they always betray the populations that hosts them.
            From a racial pov, I know every race needs its space to prosper, otherwise population will be stunted because behaviour changes when rival tribes hunt for the same resources.
            From a christian point of view, I know the anti christ will be a jewish man because the jews summon him. Basically jews cooperate with demons to get power.
            The other side has no good arguments other than jewish kids might befriend goyim kids.

          • Christian Nation? Ugh.
            Woke is at its core a mutated Protestant strain and most of the immigration comes not from Jews but Lutherans and Catholics.
            Unless some kind of muscular Christian strain really takes off, most of what passes for Christian these days is Judeo Christian cuckery and part of the problem.
            And yes I know this increases the cost of social capital and risks of moral decay. It is what it is.
            Besides a few centuries most people will be Amish anyway ;

          • A certain Bad Man wrote in the 20s that if they succeeded in creating their own state, it would merely be a bolthole to escape to when their crimes were discovered.

        • It was William who first introduced the jews to Britain. With the expectation that they would assist in the theft.

      • Before the idea of Universal Human Rights, it was understood that a community gave you a set of rights in return for fulfilling your duties as part of the community.
        The idea of unalienable human rights disperses with this by giving rights with no responsibilities.
        I would also add that the idea of human rights has not stopped anyone from putting their boots on the face of their citizens, sometimes while espousing the universality of human rights themselves.

        • Chet said, “The idea of unalienable human rights disperses with this by giving rights with no responsibilities.” That’s what the Left asserts, but it ain’t so. Note the phrase “passive ethno-nationalism organized around group identity and rights.” The words “organized around” suggest rules that sit atop the foundations of “group identity and rights.” You violate the rules, you forfeit both your membership in the group AND your rights. (This fits even today’s “unalienable rights” paradigm: What real “rights” do convicts have as they live locked in their cages?)

          • The idea always was that you kept your universal rights as long as you did not infringe of the universal rights of others. Of course, it quickly devolves into an incoherent mess of which ‘universal’ rights are more important, especially as the definition broadens to absurdity.
            That being said, I’m not thinking we really have a fundamental disagreement.

      • Vizzini, it would appear that the idea of unalienable human rights is included in the phrase, “a passive ethno-nationalism organized around group identity and rights.”

        • No, they are not inalienable individual rights; they are rights derived from membership and acceptance into the group. Some groups are more capable, biologically, than others vis a vis delayed gratification, empathy, intelligence and judgment to have certain rights due to their group status; others less so, some not at all. Having a pulse and human form is not sufficient qualification to possess and use the means of determining questions of life and death. Jaquarivius needs a gun as much as he needs the right to vote, as he cannot be trusted with either.

      • The point is not returning to the pre-Enlightenment. It’s that no one has ever succeeded in building a non-theological case for the existence of so-called natural rights. That Thomas Jefferson thought otherwise does not change the historical fact.

        • That’s why even Jefferson prefaces it with “endowed by their Creator.” I am all for a theological case for human rights.

          • I believe in a theological case for White rights, because we’re a special case. We’re the most successful experiment yet, of the many formed by Creation.

            Universal human rights, based in mercy? Of course. I could not abide cruelty to animals- because I’m White.

            I only wish them well, yet I don’t expect my dog to master Chopin.

          • The only theological argument for equalism and its subsidiary universal rights comes from the same side that says “the whole of the law is do as thou wilt.” The Lord says “And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.” The nations are to be seperated until Judgment.

          • Not really. Most of humanity lives in or lived in conditions where rights are not a thing and are no more or less sinful than us.
            This suggests God cares not.
            Also none of that stuff is Biblical. Its excused Leftism on its face.

          • Not so. God almighty had rather a lot to say about those who oppress vulnerable classes of people or treat them unjustly. Reworded and recast this is nothing more or less than establishing the firm principle that people have a RIGHT to flourish and receive justice.

            Do we need to stipulate that “oppress” does not mean anything like the absurd SJW sense? Do we need to specify that rights are not “guarantees” in some kind of UN subcommittee sense?

            Of course rights in the “I have a right to force you to bake me cakes” or “I have a right to sit next to a white kid in class” sense don’t exist. But it’s careening wildly in the other direction to say that ALL idea of rights is some kind of current year leftism.

            For those of us who claim to identify with historical christendom we should avoid the temptation of going full white sharia or dreaming of some asiatic genghis khan empire.

            Rights, freedom, and yes even universal human dignity ARE important features of our shared culture. We needn’t abandon our own heritage because leftists have fagged them up. A big part of nationalism is keeping out primitives unprepared to participate in our more humane and civilized cultures of rights and reciprocal social obligations.

      • MBlanc, summarize that, please, if you would. Interesting. I see theology as an expression of ethnicity.

    • Vizzini’s right that trying to sell 21st century Americans and Europeans on pure anti-Enlightenment philosophy isn’t going to work. We will need a couple of generations to start sorting that out.

      On a long timeline we should our focus to protecting the natural rights of families and the needs and interests of the public at large for the future – not the individual’s desires right now.

      Getting people to accept bounded individualism is the necessary first step. Trim the excesses. It’s why I’ve always said gays/trannies are the wedge for rolling back Globoshlomo.

      They’re the most Other thing out there and reining them in gets people used to applying other limits and disproves the slippery-slope ooga-booga gaslighting about ovens and cattle-cars.

      • Perhaps, perhaps not. Ignoring the froots of the Enlightenment is easy when you can turn off the computer or TV, pop a beer and go do something else. But when vibrants that shouldn’t be here start raping your women, chitting on your sidewalks, and shooting your kids… hearts and minds can turn on a dime and have done so before. If you threaten me and mine with those things…I will not wait around for generations for corrupt politicos to pull their head out of their arses. I will either move or start fighting now.

        • All of these things are already happening.

          Are you part of a strong IRL White majority community right now?

          If you are, good job.

          If not, keep in mind that most of the American Right has been saying what they’ll do someday all my life.

        • G-
          Right now, I watch the blue hives eating their own and their lucky citizens and it’s still “over there”. For now this is not encroaching my neighborhood but the powder keg is about 6 miles west of me.
          Do an Area Study and draw some hard lines in your head about when you’ll act. I believe that if the situation demands you move or start fighting (expecting to survive), it’s too late to do either.

    • Endless tribal warfare is not an appealing solution. Applying the arguments in support of individual rights to group identity means a rules based coexistence. Respect for borders, customs, preferences, etc.

      • I have disagreements with Greg Johnson, but he is absolutely correct on his central point: the case for Whites is a moral one. This isn’t to say a post-United States America will be achieved without conflict, possibly violent because communists don’t cede territory passively, but your point that it cannot be endless conflicts with others is well-taken.
        The Whites’ state-sanctioned enemies have made the moral case. Each burning, each beating, each murder, while so-called law enforcement has sided with the criminals, has shown this is a moral case. This is not an argument for submission to violence, but using what is happening to establish a moral case. First we have to win our own, and the violence against us will help in that regard.

        The next step will be explaining the only solution to violence and cultural degradation is separation from the Empire.

        • I think some of the components of a moral case are right out there in the open now.

          The BLM/Antifah crowd has been making their argument about “black lives matter” using a laundry list of criminals as their martyrs of choice.

          And they’ve been rioting and burning and looting, all with the acquiescence of a good part of the power structure – because they would like you to think that we’ve finally reached some historical inflection point where they can make the moral argument that whitey has been oppressing blackie – and it has to stop.

          If you look at the actual facts – their moral argument completely falls apart, but the trendline doesn’t seem to be interested at all in actual facts and figures about where the real problem lies.

          So they’ve been getting away with this for months now – and nothing seems to stand in their way.

          Until a 5 year old kid named Cannon got shot in the back of the head.

          We just got given a “gift” – named Cannon.

          I think one measure of how much of a failure opposition to the left wing has been – is that this kid should be getting shoved right down the throat of anybody who is trying to echo ANY arguments made by the BLM crowd – or the left in general.

          If no forceful political response to the excesses and demands of the left can come out of an incident like that – what the hell is it going to take?

          • calsdad said: “The BLM/Antifah crowd has been making their argument about “black lives matter” using a laundry list of criminals as their martyrs of choice.”

            Auster’s First Law of Majority-Minority Relations in Liberal Society:

            “The worse any designated minority or alien group behaves in a liberal society, the bigger become the lies of Political Correctness in covering up for that group.”

            “The more egregiously any non-Western or non-white group behaves, the more evil WHITES are made to appear for noticing and drawing rational conclusions about that group’s bad behavior.”

            “The First Law and its corollary are intrinsic to liberalism. Once the equality of all human groups is accepted as a given, any facts that make a minority or foreign group seem worse than the majority native group must be either covered up or blamed on the majority.”

            Clarifying the First Law


      • It’s the borders part where the rubber meets the road – and where various versions of conflict could arise. That said, many communities already have carved out parts of cities for themselves without much or any violence.

        Regardless, the path forward seems clear:

        1. Normalize and then legalize freedom of association for Whites (everybody else already has this)
        2. Form White communities, political groups, cultural groups, schools, etc.
        3. Gain more and more political autonomy
        4. Homeland

        If I live to see steps 1 and 2, I’d be very happy and, frankly surprised, i.e. this is a very, very long process. In my lifetime, I’d shoot for increasing our numbers and moving a long way toward achieving step 1. But that doesn’t mean we can’t form small-scale communities during that time.

      • Whether its revanchist Damn Yankee/Good White holdouts, Neo Reds or someone else, there will be war sooner or later.
        And note while this is not a peon for more immigration (I’m a repatriation guy) Whites and Hispanics in many areas get along far better than Good Whites and Deplorables every have. We are our own worst enemies.
        Ultimately the way things are configured, a genocidal multi-ethnic political war is inevitable. There are very few ways if any to split FUSA into contiguous States that don’t involve pogrom.
        Assuming Our Thing comes out with a win, this means the new State will be fighting fires for a long time and that the two generation or so interregnum will be highly unpleasant. This is history and as much as we’d all like some Fukuyamaesque End of History , that’s not going to happen.
        Its war and rebuilding for many many years until we get soft again.

        • Ultimately the way things are configured, a genocidal multi-ethnic political war is inevitable. There are very few ways if any to split FUSA into contiguous States that don’t involve pogrom.

          And there’s the difficulty, maybe the intractable difficulty. Everybody likes to draw up fantasy maps, but the cultures are too well mixed everywhere. And, you know … if you plot everyone on a frequency distribution over intelligence, or industriousness, or the willingness to regard the other guy’s stuff as his, you get these normal distributions. Bell curves. The negroes are shifted to the left of the whites by a standard deviation, but that means there’s still plenty of overlap. I doubt that I’m unique in knowing a couple of smart, law-abiding, cooperative, lovely people who are also negroes. They aren’t doing crime, they’re long-time married, they’re raising kids with love and discipline, they don’t talk ebonic … for all intents and purposes, they’re white people with really dark suntans. Is Whitopia to be closed to them? Do we want to force them to live in the jungle? Contrariwise, their children … there’s nature as well as nurture, and some reversion to the mean must be expected.
          And on the other side of the coin, well, we’ve all seen the video from Seattle and Portland. Stupid, violent whites that we’d definitely want to keep out of Whitopia. (On second thought, if Whitopia is properly run, maybe no big harm in some murderous trannies being there to begin with, as their life expectancies would be extremely short.)
          But you see what I mean. I’m all on board with Whitopia. But there are complications.

          • There are complications. We are so far away from Whitopia that it’s almost futile to talk about it in any detail. The battle at this point is one mind at a time. Adam Haner, the white man who got knocked out in Portland with a sucker kick to the head by a vicious spear administrator who was wearing a “Security” t-shirt has regained consciousness after two days in a coma and says that he had marched with BLM in the past. He says he’s not seeking vengeance for the attack and is leaving it to “karma” to set things right. Yet he is also saying that he is sure that he was attacked because he was white. You see how this works. That because is a victory.

            Haner says he hopes that his assailant “learned something” from the episode. Wow, is he in for a surprise when he finds out he’s the one who has to do the learning.

          • IMO, the answer is that we have a set of standards in Whitopia, disparate impact is protected constitutionally, and people who adhere to those standards for a number of years can become citizens.

            Their children will revert to the mean, but it shouldn’t be a huge shift, and we’ll filter out the worst by the initial denial of citizenship to people who fail to meet our standards.

    • The second question is, does this allow for some diversity? A Korean manicurist here, a Mexican laborer there. But still an ethnic super-majority, and the Korean & Mexican had better assimilate?

      • How has that worked out? It may be necessary, at least initially, but I don’t think it would have a different ending. I’m open to contrary arguments but my initial reaction is “no.”

        • I have to disagree. Its not first gen immigrants that cause problems. Not even the illegal ones really. The massive damage is inflicted by their children. Devoid of any real roots of their own, second generation immigrants (and mixed race people) are the perfect communists, literally shorn of their nations and and left economic units.

          Its no wonder many end up like African Americans with racial grievances instead of a cultural history and degenerate consumerism as a replacement for self expression. The only identity possible is negative.

          We can have immigrants but they must go back within their lifetimes and citizenship must be determined by blood.

          • It’s an academic question at this point – we’re decades short of being able to enforce these kinds of policies – but the thing to keep in mind is that we don’t need immigrants who stay for decades. Short-term for things like tourism and legitimate cultural contact yes, but unless someone is marrying a citizen, there just isn’t a need or a compelling interest in allowing any kind of long-term immigration.

            In the short-mid-term we’re going to have to accommodate the rainbow-poz cities and tolerate more mixing at the fringes because we don’t have the power to say otherwise.

            For now focus on developing White core areas that will be the nuclei for a network we can build out from.

          • For now focus on developing White core areas that will be the nuclei for a network we can build out from.

            Physically investing in White communities, yes! But also the language and pride of culture. We must begin pressing back on those around us that are actively and passively destroying White individuals. We’ve given up too much ground in language, culture, etc.

            Building in the physical realm is certainly key. But we can begin right this minute to begin training ourselves to think White, speak White, dream White, and love White!

          • Yep, I think these are all interesting things to argue over but people in this thread are getting way out ahead of themselves.

            We’ve got a whole civilization to rebuild and we need (sorry for the corp-speak) a core team for that project. Right now, whites themselves are the biggest problem, or rather I should say GoodWhites. Before we start any pogroms against other groups we need to (re)develop our own core tribal group and values. We need to start our own march through the institutions and begin to un-person and remove GoodWhites wherever we find them. Everyone who knows “a few guys” at work who are wrongthinkers should start their own little “secret revolutionary committee” at their company. Leftists should be identified and kept track of. Possible recruits for Our Thing also should be followed up. I know this sounds awful but the Left itself used these tactics to subvert our institutions in the first place. They should not be immune to having their own tactics used against them.

          • Its not first gen immigrants that cause problems…The massive damage is inflicted by their children. 

            Exactly. A person who immigrates as an adult knows who and what he is and views the new society as an outside observer, just as a tourist would. But the children grow up in and really only know the new society. Unlike the first generation immigrant, they are in some ways part of the new society but are still alienated from it.
            It used to be popular to say immigrants are OK so long as they assimilate. Now, when they assimilate they are assimilating our society’s anti-white grievance values.

          • The eternal magic buzzword of ‘assimilation.’ Historically this was achieved by killing off the men and breeding with the local women (proven by numerous genetic studies). Today, the Mohammedan neighbor who wears jeans and eats pizza is termed assimilated. So, too, Jewish neighbors who even have a Christmas tree. And Chinese friends are so nice, they go to church (a Chinese one, of course) and speak accent-free English. Genuine modern-day assimilation means generations of adaptation and intermarriage. Instead of numericans, the result is always some new melange.

          • I’ll add my 2 cents. I’m half Mestizo or 75%+ white ala a 39 year old Nick Fluentes type and I think there are several factors on which side mixed race people go towards.

            1. A father in home make big difference in life and outcomes and political outlook.
            2. My parents were silent generation so my outlook is more conservation other mixed race individuals so think the tendency towards the left is because immigrants tend left.
            3. I look very white and Z-Man is right. It is a Skins game and the more white looking a mixed person is the more likely they are go right unless they have specific incentives to go the extreme other end ala the Liz Warren Indian effect. BLM wouldn’t think twice about lynching me as a “white man” and at the end of the day that is what all of this come down to no matter your 23andme says.
          • I’ve found that most “Hispanics” whose families arrived prior to Hart/Celler look like well-tanned Whites and don’t speak a lick of Spanish.

          • Racial purity in America is rare and unworkable. Our game is a skins game with a link to demonstrated group tendencies. I am effed in a sense. My genetic tests, under an alias through legal counsel, prove I am soley of N’west European biology. My name, however, is highly ethnic Caucasian as in from the Caucasus Mountains and a race as dark in general as the Kardashians (hint). I am a bastard, which everybody including me knew when I was very young. I screwed up the courage to ask mom when I was ten and we both knew she was lying to me. My thin Trumpian blonde hair and deep blue eyes just don’t occur in that race with frequency and their genes tend to dominate my actual European ones. (I came to love that race even though we are known as the ones who can out jew a jew. This doesn’t come naturally to me but I have learned how to do that, actually, and I have successful practice.) In any event I belong with fellow whites despite the name and cultural familiarity.

          • Good shot. There is a clear demarcation between West Coast and the rest of us in terms of intelligence, standards and behavior. But regrettably you have accurately captured something to be held at arm’s length. Peace out.

          • Strongly disagree. Any generation immigrants are a problem (legal or illegal is yet another shell game; I’ve been a visa officer and about 95% of those who are ‘legal’ became so via illegal means and talmudstry). They come not for ‘muh freedumbs’ but for money and stuff. There is no skill, no talent, no ability, available out among the world that we cannot provide for ourselves.

          • There doesn’t seem to be any standard short of a terrorism conviction that can keep out immigrants from the chain-migration or diversity-lottery visa programs.

          • There is no skill, no talent, no ability, available out among the world that we cannot provide for ourselves.

            Amen. I’m willing to shut down the importation long enough to find out. I’d say 20 generations of White will do it.

          • Yup. See it over and over again in Toronto.

            1st gen immigrant is a decent guy. His kids despise me and all whites. Public school doesn’t help.

            All immigration must stop as well as birthright citizenship.

          • May I ask where you live? Because around here crime (particularly human trafficing, meth, heroin, carjackings, home invasions, not to mention identity fraud) would be almost non-existant except for the Brazilian and Dominican immigrants. And that’s separate from the welfare abuse.

        • It is always going to be risky, but diversity should be like spices – enough to add flavor, but not enough to overpower. In other words, limits.

          I don’t see why, if we had country immigration quotas in the past, we can’t have them now. It is really about the will to enforce it. But, my solution would simply be freedom of association. If you want a white bread mayonnaise sandwich town, you are free to have it. If you want the curry with one pepper, fine. If you want the five pepper curry, go for it. And let nature do its thing.

          • You let the camel nose under the tent and you will always get the camel in the tent with you on the outside…You really think the other races have any tendencies towards letting white people just live their lives and not bothering them…Just Say No…

        • Look around the US. Mostly, the only gringos who exhibit any racial solidarity in voting are those who live with blacks. Whitopian gringos are nearly universally clueless moderates or progressives. OTOH in Texas, Mississippi, etc whitey votes whitey 70%+. Doesnt this suggest that whitey is too dumb to live in utopia? Or, to be fair, a utopia whose media messaging is nearly universally universal, equalitarian, civnat, and anti-white?

          • I think most white men voted Trump(stand in for white party candidate), it’s the white women(those that aren’t married) they’re the problem, I might be mistaken.

          • I think you’re correct on that. But that points to white men not being able to control their women.

            And it’s why I think that Heartiste’s site was one of the most critical resources out there for getting men’s minds right.

            If you can get your mind right about women, then you can get your mind right about a lot of other things.

            It was big loss when he was memory holed.

          • Perhaps we really are fragile. I see Heartiste on Gab but there is no valid reason he couldn’t spawn another site. Yet he hasn’t done so.

          • Michael said: “Mostly, the only gringos who exhibit any racial solidarity in voting are those who live with blacks.”
            White women not supporting Trump doesn’t seem to apply for the kind of people “who live with blacks.” At least in places like Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, white women will support Trump only a little less than white men will.

          • I’ve always wondered about this. I suppose in Whiteopia, it’s easier to buy into the progressive narrative and assume real blacks are like the ones you see on TV. But what about places outside of the Deep South where there are a lot of blacks? Is it that the blacks are concentrated in the cities so that the whites in more rural areas aren’t exposed to blacks very much?

          • Those blacks can defend themselves from other hordes of their own kin, it’s not whites who’ll bother them. Whites will leave them alone, they have the right to live a segregated life from whites(same applies to whites who wanna separate from blacks) & take care of themselves & their own families.
            Basically every race has the right to self governate.

          • Basically every race has the right to self governate.
            Yea but only the white race can do so effectively without any help from any other race…

          • Truth be told we don’t know. Cause after whites industrialized the planet everyone has been under they rule, more or less.
            For example american blacks can’t go back to jungle life, they have no skills for such things.
            We know what happened in Africa with farms after whites left, but those africans had their roots intact, they were never truly domesticated.
            Alabama blacks are very different from african blacks & they love Jesus, that’s why I’m 50/50 on them.
            Koreans & japs don’t need whites at all.

          • Koreans & japs don’t need whites at all.
            Well then let’s stop funding them and we can see if they can make it on their own…

        • Marko asked if passive ethno-nationalism allows, “for some diversity? A Korean manicurist here, a Mexican laborer there. But still an ethnic super-majority.” Jack answered “no.” I disagree, based on Tykebomb’s observation that “citizenship must be determined by blood.” Non-citizens can’t vote. Thus, so long as social norms comprehensively enforced, the spice of diversity shouldn’t be banned. (Those of you who object, see the word “comprehensively” above; immediate and permanent ejection/banishment would be the response to violation of ethno-nationalistic norms: You can’t live here anymore.)

          • Everyone gets equal policing. Those who violate the rules—no matter their ethnicity—get ejected. It worked for the ancient Greeks.

          • Its the “grains versus pile” thing. At some indeterminate point, “spice” becomes permanent low level war with constant policing and vigilance. We have learned that coexistence with piles of sand means NKVD/CNT-FAI levels of violent, controlling retribution, or failing to keep that exhausting level of violence, 80,000+ of our women get raped by them every year and our cities get burned down every decade. That’s not a great choice. If “spice” is eventually allowed, it must be so minute and controlled that the grains of sand never become a pile of sand, because the only solution then is horrific.

          • I think we make an exception for Muslims. They have proven that they cannot coexist with anyone, including themselves.

        • Doesn’t work in democratic societies (or even democratic republics), especially with universal voting franchise.

          For it to work under a voting scheme, tiered voting would be best, but no guarantee. With technology, tiered voting should be doable.

          Basic, local and limited voting… like for city ordinances governing waste removal or zoning… could be open to all living in the area. Leadership and representative voting could be limited to people conferred membership by the community. A different tier for higher office voting, etc.

          • There’s two sides to the voting problem. One is who you let vote – and the other is what they are voting for.

            If you look at what the vast majority of people who are destroying the nation are voting for – it’s more “free shit”

            And I say “free shit” in all of it’s possible permutations. For women it’s free abortion and child care and job preferences. For blacks it’s welfare and job preferences and pretty much anything “free”. For Jews it’s more foreign aid for Israel – and laws against their prosecution for acting like enemy agents. For a good amount of “conservatives” – it’s for endless wars overseas paid for by borrowed money and the blood of somebody else’s kids.

            It is my opinion that a true white man’s society or nation simply doesn’t need to funnel that much money thru the hands of ANY governmental agency. Once you start putting any form of government – the push for more voting rights will start. But it can work the opposite way as well. Enhancement of voting rights – leads to a push to funnel more $$ thru the government. It’s a two-sided dance into disaster.

            The discipline of a TRUE conservative – would be to just say NO. NO. NO. NO. We simply will NOT do it. You must find another solution to your claims that we “must do something”.

          • Well, a ridiculously capacious franchise is the problem. Democracy of a rather restricted type within an overwhelmingly white society would, I believe, work.

          • Or you have a monarch instead of voting. It worked for millennia for Europeans and East Asians, and we have no reason to believe that it won’t work in the millennia to come.

        • We’d have to supplement with some (top tier) diversity in the beginning. Once we get an idea of where our birthrates are headed, we can close the gates. It would also help us maintain a facade of openness. We can’t let the mask drop all at once.

          • We’d have to supplement with some (top tier) diversity in the beginning. 


            We can’t let the mask drop all at once.

            If we’re in a position to dictate immigration policy, who would we be hiding from?

      • Then I suppose “passive ethno nationalism” can go either the white separatist way, or the super-majoritarian super-conformist way a-la 1950s America.

        • How’d that super-majoritarian path work out.

          Proposition nations don’t work.

        • More the conformism of the 1850’s, or maybe 1650’s. Those who don’t fit are removed, not “tolerated.” Tolerance is the devil’s argument for eventual acceptance, that has been tried and failed.

      • Yes.

        But they don’t get citizenship and neither do their children. The moment they or their offspring commit crime or otherwise prove unfit for purpose, they’re deported.

      • This is how I’d do it.

        Rule one,
        There will very few new immigrants. The highest that makes sense is about 1/1000th of the population so place like I dunno Colorado Springs might have 400 immigrants and say Phoenix might have 1600 or so in the entire city. It will be point based with White and Right getting the highest points
        Second, if you act and look White, no one cares about the odd Hispanic, Amerind, Asian or whatever it the muddy US gene pool. The old paper bag test should be sufficient.
        Third, if we allow non Whites in DR territory, they will be Right Wing and vetted. Maybe we’d like Sheriff Clarke or Candace Owens or the like as citizens but its a White country, run by White rules for White people. Numbers will be no more than 10% tops, the lower the better.
        Fourth. No birthright citizenship except for someone born to 2 citizen parents and who claims no other citizenship. Otherwise custody defaults to the non citizen parent though extra points should applied if they wish to become a US citizen. Any other citizenship or nationality Wokeland, Israel , UK anywhere means immediate loss of citizenship.

        That should cover most issues I think.

          • Nothing is more black-pilling than going to a site that is considered natzee, supreemacist, literally hitler, etc and see morons who are pro non-white immigration..

            Meanwhile on the left, no one is going to argue over one of their core ideas.

      • I could accept up to 5% minorities, but no blacks, no Moslems, and perhaps no Jews. In such a scenario, minority couples would not be allowed to have more than two children. Breaking that rule would result in immediate expulsion from Whiteland.

        • I’m not as strict give how many White people have something else in the bloodline.
          Also don’t want any government ,mine included running about policing family size.

          • Assuming you’re genetically white, the guv wouldn’t be policing your reproduction.

          • I don’t care. Nobody gets to do that.
            If we can’t get our people to have kids in a environment set up for it and where we are overwhelmingly in the majority but others are having babies than we deserve extinction.
            Besides a lot of putative White people have a bit of other anyway. I don’t give a fig about some guy who is 1/4 Indio, 1/4 Ute or 1/16 Japanese. I don’t really care about the errant passing Octoroon that slips through and is not subverting our society for that matter.
            This is as much tribal as anything.
            I’m not DNA testing people and if you say your are White , look and act White than you are White.
            Amusingly Stormfront rules.
            The settles the “What about me I’m part blah.” problem as well.
            Would you tell say Vox Day who is absolutely on our team he can’t live there. He’s part Mexican and Amerind but unless he said so you’d never know.
            How about Nick Fuentes who is part Mexican for example?
            Its still a White country but its not perfect and it maybe a bit muddier. This is just fine so long as it works.
            That said if you want a nation where everyone is DNA tested and can make your own work, zero reasons DUSA and WNUSA can’t get along.

        • Ostei Kozelskii said: ” In such a scenario, minority couples would not be allowed to have more than two children. Breaking that rule would result in immediate expulsion from Whiteland.”

          Hahaha.You know, that Apartheid thing is a lot of paperwork. Why do you want minorities in whitopia in the first place? Save yourself the trouble and the trees and just keep them out.

          • I don’t want them necessarily, but in the quantities I’m talking about they can do no harm. What’s more, they provide a bit of political cover for potential trading partners.

      • Marko said: “A Korean manicurist here, a Mexican laborer there. ”

        Aren’t there any white people on this planet that can buff nails and trim hedges?

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