Alternative Ruminations

Note: There is a new movie review behind the green door. This week the movie is Fargo, the great 1990’s crime comedy. For those on SubscribeStar it is here and for those on Buy Me A Beer it is in your e-mail and here as well.


Alternative history is one of those things that should be more popular in Hollywood, as it opens the door for creativity. “What if the South won the Civil War” would let the filmmaker run wild with all sorts of claims about the past, for example. For the same reason, it should be more popular with people in general. It makes for a good start to a campfire story. “Imagine if our enemies from the past had won and we were forced to live in a world of their creation…” is a good scary story.

For whatever reason, alternative history is not very popular. Revisionist history, on the other hand is popular. In fact, revisionism, outside of one subject, is the norm in the history departments of the West. The only thing historians do is question the official narrative of various historical events. The new narrative usually tries to explain the past according to the new morality. Fitting the past into the great story justifying the moral claims of the people in charge is the point of history.

This is why any attempt to question the official narrative of the Second World War is strictly prohibited. The entire ruling class structure is built upon the myths and legends fabricated in the aftermath of the war. The moral center of the American empire is the assertion that the morality of the empire is universal. More important, it is the logical endpoint of the great historical dialectic. It is the fulfillment of the opening lines to the Declaration of Independence, words made flesh.

This has created a massive blind spot in our ruling class. By condemning old enemies, especially the fascists, to the pit of the demons, they don’t have to think much about those systems and how they could have evolved. How would fascism have evolved if the British cut a deal with the Germans over Poland? If not for Churchill’s blood lust for war, a deal could have been made to avert war in the West. How would that have changed the course of fascism in both Germany and Italy?

One possible outcome is it would have quickly evolved into something very similar to what we see in America. The rapid rebuild of the German economy by the fascists bound the state and corporate interests in a way that is familiar to us today. Organized labor was suppressed, in favor of the state speaking for labor. This is not much different from the present model in America. Using Jews and Slavs as cheap labor is not all that different from what American business does with guest workers.

It is generally assumed that the economic model of fascism could never last, as it was really just a form of war socialism. First it was the war on the devastating consequences of the Great War. Then it was the build up to reassert power in Europe. Once war broke out, the economies of fascist states were organized around war. This type of economics is assumed to burn bright but not last. If left alone, the inequities would lead to social unrest and demands for reform.

This was the experience of the Bolsheviks, in a different context. The revolution and then the civil war forced the party to requisition everything they could touch and put it toward the war effort. Once the civil war was over, it became clear that the system could not last. People would not continue to sacrifice their labor for the party when the party was no longer under direct threat. How long would the German people have tolerated the iron rule of the party without the threat of war?

The present gives us some clue. For some time now America has lived under the iron grip of the uniparty. The last agent of change produced by the political system was Reagan and that was half a century ago. The reforms of Reagan were popular, but never challenged the ruling class. Since then, the system has produced one clone after another, with the exception of Trump. He was quickly neutralized and then ejected from the system like a dangerous foreign object from the body.

The party has also kept the country on a war footing. The Cold War shaped the American empire and the ruling class. They need war to exist, so when the Cold War ended, the search for new enemies commenced. First, we got the crusades against the Muslims, which got started with Bush I. Now it is a tossup between China and Russia as to who will be the new devil. The uniparty needs war socialism and war socialism needs an enemy to justify its excesses.

This is why some believe the fascists would have had no choice but to start a war in Europe, even if the British had not been so willing. This type of political system needs to be on war footing. The permanent revolution of communist systems is an effort to institutionalize the creation of enemies around which the system can rally. The current war on white people is very similar. It is an effort to create a permanent enemy of the party that can never be defeated, but must always be opposed.

Of course, the American empire has been at war for close to a century, but unlike the fascists or communists, it persists. The reason is it has not picked the wrong enemies around which to organize the war. It could have been dumb luck. The Soviets came to believe they had to tread lightly around the Americans. The Kennedy administration’s desire to blow up the world over Cuba was a key lesson. The American ruling class was composed of fanatics, not sober minded realists.

Taken together, it suggests that there really was no alternative timeline in which war was averted and the fascists tried to figure out how to make it work. The Americans were on the prowl for an enemy. The fascists systems needed an enemy to justify their control of society. Stalin’s revolution from above required an enemy around which to organize and he was running out of internal enemies to kill. The great contest between various forms of war socialism was inevitable.


The crackdown by the oligarchs on dissidents has had the happy result of a proliferation of new ways to support your favorite creator. If you like my work and wish to kick in a few bucks, you can buy me a beer. You can sign up for a SubscribeStar subscription and get some extra content. You can donate via PayPal. My crypto addresses are here for those who prefer that option. You can send gold bars to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 432 Cockeysville, MD 21030-0432. Thank you for your support!


Promotions: We have a new addition to the list. Havamal Soap Works is the maker of natural, handmade soap and bath products. If you are looking to reduce the volume of man-made chemicals in your life, all-natural personal products are a good start. If you use this link you get 15% off of your purchase.

The good folks at Alaska Chaga are offering a ten percent discount to readers of this site. You just click on the this link and they take care of the rest. About a year ago they sent me some of their stuff. Up until that point, I had never heard of chaga, but I gave a try and it is very good. It is a tea, but it has a mild flavor. It’s autumn here in Lagos, so it is my daily beverage now.

Minter & Richter Designs makes high-quality, hand-made by one guy in Boston, titanium wedding rings for men and women and they are now offering readers a fifteen percent discount on purchases if you use this link.   If you are headed to Boston, they are also offering my readers 20% off their 5-star rated Airbnb.  Just email them directly to book at

sa***@mi*********************.com











.


195 Comments
Most Voted
Newest Oldest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
She Was A Constitution Nut
She Was A Constitution Nut
3 years ago

People who scoff and sneer at the idea alternative histories have some gaps in their armor through which to insert swords, pikes and other weapons. First of all, alternative history is no different at bottom than what most thinking people do every day when contemplating various possible courses of future action and the probable outcomes of any action (or inaction, as the case may be). The person who reasons about alternative history is likewise engaged in thinking about possible courses of action and their probable outcomes, but this historian is using the benefit of hindsight as a guide. So, the… Read more »

She Was A Constitution Nut
She Was A Constitution Nut
Reply to  She Was A Constitution Nut
3 years ago

I should add that anti-Revisionists, too, have some problems with their reputations. I’m guessing that most or all of them are hostile to descriptions of alternative histories. If any are not, let them speak up in defense of theirselves. They are political animals, however, and descriptions of alternative histories puts the reputations of their heroes in grave peril. What if Churchill really was a glory hound and bloodthristy fool who ruined both the British empire and the UK? Their next problem is that they are simply demanding that we accept their favorite stories as the products of historians who enjoy… Read more »

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
3 years ago

Had we not intervened in WWI Britain and France would have probably sued for peace and there would have been no Treaty of Versailles to put the boot to th German people and the Kaiser would have probably kept his position. Britain bankrupt from the war and supporting a largely useless empire would have probably withdrawn from some of it’s more costly to maintain possession. France, would probably have just tended to it’s colonies in North Africa. Russia would perhaps averted the communist revolution. The US without GB goading us would probably keep foreign entanglements in Asia and Europe to… Read more »

Catxman
Reply to  Rwc1963
3 years ago

The United States was already trending toward interventionalism, given its “banana boat” gunboat diplomacy in Central America in the Twenties. The Spanish-American War of 1898 was another example of America stretching its arms.

— Catxman, catxman.wordpress.com

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Rwc1963
3 years ago

i had to downvote this due to the careless “reasoning”. probably this, maybe that, etc.

She Was A Constitution Nut
She Was A Constitution Nut
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

Probability is real whether or not math unnerves you, but we don’t need much probability theory to figure out that… If you set up a populist republic or democracy, it’s probably true that your collective will have bloody borders and a habit of attacking civilian populations as if civilians, too, are frontline combatants. If your military capitalism is heavily subsidzed before your wars, it’s probably true that your wars will be very profitable to a politically favored subset of your populace. If the German military hadn’t escorted Lenin through Germany during the Great War of 1914-1918, it’s probably true that… Read more »

Zaphod
Zaphod
3 years ago

Errr.. well not quite the Steppes. Frozen North, let’s say.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
3 years ago

Here is a novel perspective on AH: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116192/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

It’s called “The Empty Mirror”. I don’t want to write a review here, but in short, the movie is set in an ambiguous context, where AH expounds on things, especially how his aesthetics were superior in every way to Stalin’s. Very apropos take for the media age. Even shows the scale model for the new Berlin, that AH and Speers actually spent a huge amount of time on. I don’t know if it has been said elsewhere, but to me, Nero is a very close historical antecedent to AH.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
3 years ago

One of the chosen attempts to ban recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in tiny Silverton, CO, pop. 663.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/out-order-colorado-mayor-bans-pledge-allegiance-then-snaps-meeting-attendees-who-recite

How is it that one of the orange juice ever got elected mayor of Silverton, CO in the first place?

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
3 years ago

Wild Geese – Same way Adler got elected mayor of Austin, TX, or the previous Juice mayor got elected in Charlottesville, VA. Internal migration is just as unregulated and devastating as international immigration. One of the many things missing from the current constitution that must be remedied in any ethnonationalist state will be severely restricting the voting rights of any transplant for 10 years at minimum.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  3g4me
3 years ago

FWIW, the ‘pledge’ is a piece of civnattery added after Lincoln’s war, so I no longer reflexively support it. However, the move to ban saying what has become a bit of Americana and patriotism is a clear sign that one is dealing with globalists/non-Whites, so I/we automatically deplore what they’re doing, because their motivation is intrinsically anti-American.

usNthem
usNthem
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
3 years ago

No kidding! What is a nose doing in what was an old mining town (now semi tourist trap – population 600) on top of a mountain more or less between Durango and Telluride? Dirty commie. The only thing that’d be a bigger surprise would be a jogger mayor. Clown world “nose” no bounds.

WJ16
WJ16
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
3 years ago

Furhman? Didn’t even pay attention until I saw your post. In Silverton,Co of all places. 10,000′ above sea level full of tough westerners and they have this person for mayor. Of course he is against the Pledge. Every damn time.

Vizzini
Member
3 years ago

I don’t typically enjoy alternate history TV series and films, because the kind of people who become screenwriters are overwhelmingly not smart enough to pull it off. Same with time travel.

Ninety-nine percent of the time it simply becomes a vehicle for pushing the author’s particular worldview, not an honest presentation of alternatives. They work from the conclusion. Usually sloppily.

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  Vizzini
3 years ago

Is there a product of Hollywood (film or TV) that doesn’t promote a narrative? I think not.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  RoBG
3 years ago

And thus I don’t enjoy very much of what Hollywood produces.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  RoBG
3 years ago

Very complicated subjects really reveal their mental deficits, though, so not only is what I’m watching extremely woke, but it’s also even more dumb than usual. It’s just too much.

FeinGul
FeinGul
Reply to  Vizzini
3 years ago

I liked man in high castle.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
3 years ago

well as long as we are playing “what it”; pontius pilate flips the coin, but it comes up “heads” this time, and JC lives on into obscurity. Christianity never forms as a major religion, and…

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
3 years ago

Anyone else watching this joke session with Fed chair Powell testifying before Congress.

Total bullshit.

These people are incompetent jokes.

Clown world.

Rdz
Rdz
3 years ago

The British have always been at war to the east. Only when Germany became unified, and productive did France become an ally. When German was defeated a productive Russia became the enemy. Russia destroyed it’s self and a productive China is the new enemy.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  Rdz
3 years ago

History proves the British are the biggest liars in history: in 1914 they pushed a narrative that German troops were killing & eating Belgian children. They went on to arm merchant ships with guns – outlawed under the rules of war & then blame the Germans for “unrestricted submarine warfare” (sidebar: that’s precisely the reason Wilson used to engineer us into WWI. After Pearl Harbor, we immediately engaged Japan with the very same). The British lied & said there was no ammo onboard the Lusitania. In 1939 they claimed German U-boat crews machine gunned survivors in the water…etc, etc. They’re… Read more »

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Boarwild
3 years ago

unlike every other country, ever. guffaw. time to grow up, elroy.

Rdz
Rdz
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

One of the Best grand strategic moves was the rapprochement to the United States.
Turning a country full of ethic Germans and Irish to fight for the mother country. Conditioned on Civ-Nationalism, English language, and Christianity.

Christopher Chantrill
Christopher Chantrill
3 years ago

I’d say that all politics needs an enemy. And government needs an existential peril to justify its force.

For our noble rulers, war between nation states has gone a bit out of fashion. That’s why the Bidenoids need the war on climate change and the war on systemic racism.

It always has to be a war.

Falcone
Falcone
3 years ago

I wonder if these old Avalon Hill games are still around I was never a history buff, but my brother was a huge buff of Roman History, and his best middle/high school friend was a guy who loved the Reich and had a nazi uniform from his German uncle in his bedroom closet with lots of medals. I thought it was pretty cool but found the uniform a bit drab. I do however think the swastika symbol on a button with the correct rich colors was gorgeous. Has to be seen in person to be appreciated. So they’d play things… Read more »

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Falcone
3 years ago

too bad your friend’s uncle wasn’t in the SS, then the uniform wouldn’t have been drab…

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Falcone
3 years ago

It’s on ebay. Pretty reasonable for an out of print game.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Paintersforms
3 years ago

i thought you were talking about the uniform, at first!?

trackback
3 years ago

[…] ZMan considers alternatives. […]

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
3 years ago

Big fan of alternative history here. I’m in something of a humorous conundrum too because of it. I saw ads up on JewTube for old video games and just fell in love with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rwzqq_sQUM&list=PLSHdOA4o6T_cf9Qz13OnIvUZgY_LtDGVG&index=31 In the game America fell to the nazis and after the war, fascism came to America in a big way. Messerschmidt jet fighters soar overhead, cone headed clansmen chat amicably with SS stormtroopers on the street corners, and cheery 1960s toons play in the background. Of course the game itself is a shitlib morality play but lord – it makes for epic irony. I… Read more »

PASARAN
PASARAN
3 years ago

I disagree.

I think fascist, and even more, NS states would have evolved into a kind of Scandinavian social-democracy, economically speaking, just with no private banking control and with racism.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

I will have to utter at least a few squeaks of disagreement today. Re, WW II, I’m willing to accept that the winners and those who did and continue to control our institutions spin history to their advantage. History is written by the winners. That is a universal truth. But the claims of at least some of the revisionists — that Nazi Germany had no deliberate genocidal policy — goes against too much evidence. I’m willing to believe (and indeed, it matches the history I’ve been “taught”) that it is always the fatalities of the Jews that is emphasized, and… Read more »

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

You seem oblivious to the fact that the “Cuban Crisis” was merely the second of a play that started with the US planting batteries of nuclear missiles aimed at Moscow, in Turkey, less than 100 miles from the Russian mainland.
An act of gross aggression ans astonishing recklessness.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

David Stein, the Jewish WW2 revisionist, argues that there is no evidence of extermination in the camps, or even intent to do so. However, he says that when the Germans were moving through Russia they did not have the resources to house captured soldiers or Jews so they just killed them all. This is hardly unique in the history of warfare.

If I recall correctly, he estimates these fatalities at about two million.

I find Stein credible because he has every interest in discrediting the Germans but also has an objective mind.

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

Ben, in regards to the big H “evidence”, I doubt any one wants to touch this here, but there are very reasonable answers for all of your queries if you are genuinely curious and want to know the answers. The thing is, most people don’t want to know the answer. And the answers are being censored and made illegal in certain jurisdictions. This is completely understandable, to be honest I don’t even want to type this reply. And I’m not giving an answer one way or another. Also, in an odd way, maybe its more unsettling to think that such… Read more »

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  Reynard
3 years ago

I could have worded that comment much better, I keep forgetting there’s no edit button anymore.

And some clarification for the alphabet agents on here: by “the Big H”, I mean the Hamburger, and by “alternative perspective” I of course mean the contention that it is not the healthiest meal in the world, and by “that one event” I am referring to the creation of the veggie burger. Nobody debates whether or not real hamburgers are tasty, that would be ludicrous!

JohnWayne
JohnWayne
Reply to  Reynard
3 years ago

Thinking is a shared adventure between two traveling companions, the heart and the mind. The H influences the heart which sways the mind just as the H influences the mind which sways the heart, to meet somewhere in the middle.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

Regarding Nazi genocide, it’s important to consider that internment camps will always have death, if simply from natural causes, and generally from the deprivations of war. It’s also important to consider that Continental wars have vastly more civilian casualties than American wars, the latter generally being much more gentle on civilians in terms of casualties and deprivations. One would think that the denizens of an interment camp would be much more susceptible to death since they would be the lowest priority for food and medical care. Given Germany’s experience, it wouldn’t be unsurprising for internment camps to have lots of… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Drew
3 years ago

My understanding is that, later in the war, Allied bombing of Axis supply lines prevented the necessities of survival from reaching the concentration camps, with lethal results for their inmates.

Conewago
Conewago
Member
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

Quit being a sissy and read Arthur R. Butz’s book while you can still get it.

NoOneImportant
NoOneImportant
3 years ago

Hitler and Stalin signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop non aggression pact, and then both invaded Poland. As a result, the West declared war on Germany but not the USSR. In fact, the United States provided the USSR with massive and critical aid via the Lend-Lease Act. Any narrative about WWII needs to explain this sequence of events in order to be valid.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  NoOneImportant
3 years ago

Also, well before WW II, scraps of unsettling news seeped out of the Soviet Union about their labor camps, purges, and so on. For the most part, Western Leftists were perfectly content to dismiss this as anti-communist propaganda or otherwise pretend it couldn’t be true. After all, to admit even the outside possibility of that might call into question cherished ideologies. Some famous Western writers of the period who were sympathizers, after the opportunity to tour the Iron Curtain, even changed their minds and wrote unflatteringly of what they saw. Mark Twain had it so right (and applies amply to… Read more »

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

This is where I recommend “The Forsaken: An American Tragedy in Stalin’s Russia” by Tim Tzouliadis. Its the story of Depression-era Americans lured to the Soviet Union w/ the promise of good jobs at good wages. It went very, very, wrong for them. It’s also a page-turner. The guy can write.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
3 years ago

” The permanent revolution of communist systems is an effort to institutionalize the creation of enemies around which the system can rally. The current war on white people is very similar. It is an effort to create a permanent enemy of the party that can never be defeated, but must always be opposed.” This is indeed what is happening. The Ruling Class has a problem, though: it will not work. That’s not to say there will not be intensified state-sponsored political terror and all the other nasty, violent stuff, but although math may be racist it does not lie. The… Read more »

Bartleby the Scrivner
Bartleby the Scrivner
Reply to  Jack Dobson
3 years ago

A well written, sober comment.

Well done.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Jack Dobson
3 years ago

I just finished Plato’s Republic. That doesn’t mean I can quote it in detail 😀 But I think you have it correctly. “They” debate several forms of government and (I think) the agreement is that a king and aristocracy is the best. Much discussion is given to what would comprise the ideal City-State, that the “Guardians” who ran it would accept a Spartan lifestyle requiring not only intense training and education, but also forswearing private property and even the traditional nuclear family. All ruled over by a “philosopher-king.” All quite unrealistic, and I think even they admit as much 🙂… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

When I read the Republic as a young guy, I can remember being struck by this part in Book 1 about old age:

‘Are you still able to have intercourse with a woman? And he replied: “mind what you say, my man, I am glad beyond measure, to have escaped this; it’s like escaping from a raving and savage slave master”.’

I can remember thinking, “so that’s what it’s like not to be horny all the time.”

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  Jack Dobson
3 years ago

I disagree in one respect: “Whether this is by design or not does not matter.” It matters a great deal. Unless you think “live in the pod and eat bugs,” “you’ll own nothing and be happy” came out of nowhere.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  RoBG
3 years ago

To be clearer, it does not matter to the fate of the Ruling Class.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
3 years ago

Hitler was going to get a war whether he wanted it or not. If revisionists are to be believed, Stalin was building up for war. One of the reasons the Nazis were so successful early on is that Stalin’s entire Western front was configured for offense. Hitler and Goebbels both said that even they were surprised by what the military found as it made it’s way East. Supposedly Stalin was going to invade in 42. But Spain, though caught in its own civil war, did manage to stay out of the war and their allegedly fascist system faded away. The… Read more »

Member
3 years ago

I think the Pacific War was inevitable, especially considering the U.S. sanctions that cut off Japan from its largest supplier of oil, scrap metal and other raw materials. If FDR would’ve taken a softer line on Japan, there’s no idea that it would’ve prevented Pearl Harbor, which was a gambit by Yamamoto (he said that either his plan was approved or he’d resign in protest) to exercise control as commander of the Combined Fleet over the Naval General Staff headquartered in Tokyo. The irony was Yamamoto knew first hand the size of the U.S. economy and industrial might and knew… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  dr_mantis_toboggan
3 years ago

Well said. Perhaps one of the greatest weapons of war – and industrialization spawned from the great wars, is propaganda in the skinsuit of mass media. Mass media made the world at once both tiny and vast; a farm boy could know of the offenses of some distant land against another while never having been to the capirtal city of his own state. The world was quickly reduced to headlines and his will moved toward infinite exploration beyond the boring confines of the corn fields. Those boys of old became ripe for the bridle of a morality tale that would… Read more »

RoBG
RoBG
Reply to  dr_mantis_toboggan
3 years ago

Entry into WWI ought to have been a wake-up call. It was opposed by an overwhelming majority of the citizenry. Yet it happened.

dj3way
dj3way
3 years ago

off topic, related to your gab feed. You have a blab up about baseballcrank, some nevertrumper. The tweet about Trump’s age…now it’s twitter, so you can’t be sure, but if you click the tweet the responses are all “fuck you fucking republican” It’s amusing to me. These people sold out, no doubt hoping that their repudiation of Trump (pbuh) would win them favour among the ‘respectable’ class…and our finding out there are no safe harbours for traitors. Which should have been seen as the obvious outcome for anyone with a modicum of intelligence. But alas, we are talking about country… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
3 years ago

Seems to me the wonder shot and the inward turning security state are such betrayals of the public trust they have the potential to kill the civic god. Who steps into the vacuum I have no idea. In a perfect world it would be the old guard. “Oops, that was a tragic wrong turn, but we’re back on course.” They’re either gone or they’ve played by the new rules for so long I’m not sure they have it in them. America doesn’t really have an old guard, so that’s an even more tenuous position.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
3 years ago

Regardless of any modus vivendi with England, Hitler was going to do everything he could to conquer Europe. Aryan ideology was rooted in the historical fact that the Germanic people, during the volkwanderungen, settled and conquered virtually the whole of Europe. This was what precipitated the collapse of the Roman Empire. That being the case, all of Europe was a German patrimony. Hitler’s plans were nothing more than a revanchist plan to formalize an Aryan Empire that was limned 1500 years earlier by barbarian colonization. Any agreement with Churchill would have been nothing more than a cagey tactic designed to… Read more »

B125
B125
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
3 years ago

Hitler was a lunatic who killed more whites than anybody else in the history of the planet. He had some good ideas but he was crazy. We can learn from his mistakes. China has done so and is following a similar, but more reasonable and measured, policy. Keep the good, remove the bad.

The correct response was for the USA to simply not fight in the war. It was a European war. Unfortunately thousands of young white men died because of Churchill & Roosevelt’s friendship.

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
3 years ago

Well, if I’m not mistaken, Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor and Hitler declared war on the US, not vice-versa. We may well have stayed out of it for a long time or even entirely. Who knows what would have happened? It’s not clear at all from the historical record, to the extent we can trust it, that FDR and the American elites had any overarching pre-war strategy in Europe. (Hitler, in contrast, had an elaborate plan for Eastern Europe as we know from Albert Speer, Adam Tooze’s book (Wages of Destruction) and many other sources.) I would argue that… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Captain Willard
3 years ago

Not a fan of NAZI’s, but it must be noted that the US—despite neutrality laws—was basically on the side of Britain and suppling support, such as lend/lease. Hitler saw little to lose in declaring war on the US and perhaps much to gain if the US was engaged in fighting Japan and Japan could be enticed to engage Russia. Hitler was nearsighted. 😉

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Captain Willard
3 years ago

Hitler was trying to defeat the Brits via siege but the U.S. was keeping them supplied behind a nonsense veil of “neutrality” (we were never going to sell Hitler whatever he wanted) and Hitler used it as an excuse to start sinking U.S. convoys.

There are a lot of things both Japan and Germany could have handled better but the issue is (and Z references this) it wasn’t in their nature to do so.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
3 years ago

One thing is to work as allies. AFAIK, they largely worked largely independently. Why didn’t the Japs attack Russia from the East? It is very likely Russia would have fallen if the Japs had also attacked. With the East secure, Stalin was able to move everything he had to use against the Germans.

The US played this stupid game of we’re neutral while actively supporting Britain and the Soviet Union. We gave Stalin millions and millions of tons of stuff.

mmack
mmack
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
3 years ago

“Why didn’t the Japs attack Russia from the East?” Google, Bing, or DuckDuckGo the Battles of Khalkhin Gol and the Nomonhan Incident. Both happened before the start of the European phase of the Second World War, and while the Japanese extracted a hefty toll of Soviet troops, they got their asses handed to them by the Russians. So they weren’t eager to try THAT again. Also, the Japanese were stretched pretty thin fighting a war in China AND planning offensives against Hong Kong, Singapore, the Dutch East Indies, the Philippines, Guam, Wake, and Burma. Where were they going to get… Read more »

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  mmack
3 years ago

I’m aware of the Russian Japanese war and the results. But they didn’t have the advantage of the Germans keeping the best Russian troops occupied in the West. Had the Germans taken Moscow, I think the Russians would have been entirely happy to follow a puppet Russian government and round up Stalin and his buddies and support public executions of them.

But really, the point is that from what I can tell, the Axis powers were an alliance of convenience and nothing more. while the Allies worked together (though obviously not without hiccups).

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
3 years ago

Yes but my point was that the very existence of the Lend-Lease Act, a product of bitter debate and compromise, proves there was no broad consensus amongst the US elites about how to deal with the situation in Europe.

Conewago
Conewago
Member
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
3 years ago

My gosh, there is some historical ignorance here.

Check out these books:

‘Mr. Roosevelt’s Navy’
And ‘Twas a Gallant Victory’

Hitler and Germany showed extraordinary restraint while Roosevelt fought an undeclared war against them for more than a year.

Conewago
Conewago
Member
Reply to  Conewago
3 years ago

Correction, the book is ‘Twas a Famous Victory’ by Benjamin Colby.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Captain Willard
3 years ago

FDR had been at war with Germany for months before Pearl Harbor,

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  Bilejones
3 years ago

Yeah he was trying like hell to create a Lusitania Part Deux by goading German submarines into attacking American shipping. But the Kriegsmarine were given strict orders never to engage American ships, even if they were attacked unprovoked.

imbroglio
imbroglio
3 years ago

>>Using Jews and Slavs as cheap labor is not all that different from what American business does with guest workers.>>

A bit glib. The appropriate analogy would be rounding up long-standing, internal “enemies” (Jews, Mexican-Americans, Chinese Americans) for extermination.

And how to explain Cuba’s “hasta la revolucion siempre.” A permanent war footing? With whom? Puerto Rico?

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  imbroglio
3 years ago

Japan ran a glorified internal military dictatorship for almost 300 years. I would have thought that after, say, 100 years people would have started to wonder what the point of all the military training was, but I suppose it’s a Japanese thing.

James J O'Meara
James J O'Meara
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
3 years ago

It’s the uniforms. Chicks love the uniforms.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  James J O'Meara
3 years ago

Especially German ones!!! ;<)

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
3 years ago

It must have done some good. The Japanese were quite the empire builders pre-WW II: China, Korea…
Their military forces were well equipped, highly trained and ferocious. Both solider and civilian were quite willing to kill, die, or commit suicide rather than surrender, given a choice. You don’t find that much in our world, then or even less now. Excepting Islamic suicide bombers, perhaps.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
3 years ago

Of course, another great “what-if” is if Mussolini had sided with the Allies in WWII rather than Hitler. This was actually a distinct possibility before the late 1930’s, and if the British had let Italy over-run Ethiopia without complaint (which, TBH, was no worse than what Britain had done in the Sudan less than forty years earlier), it probably would have happened, since Mussolini disliked Hitler, and actually admired Britain and the US (with this admiration being returned by Roosevelt and Churchill, no less). This would have meant that Allied propaganda would have had to distinguish between the “good” Italian… Read more »

James J O'Meara
James J O'Meara
Reply to  Altitude Zero
3 years ago

Good point(s). Is there still a statue or bust of Mussolini in Chicago somewhere?

It would have been easy to promote “good” fascism. As FDR himself recognized, the New Deal was basically fascist, a la Mussolini. What fascism lacked was anti-Semitism and nutty race theories in general. Needless to say, that would be a plus for the New Dealers.

A US allied with Italy would also have benefited from Mussolini’s war on the Mafia, and moreover would also not have actually worked with and rewarded the mob for their usefulness in the invasion of Italy.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

When the Cold War broke out, the American ruling class would have been forced to hold their noses and accept Mussolini, the way that they did (eventually) with Franco. Italy was just too strategically important, no matter who was running the place. It would have helped that a few fairly high up Italian Fascists were Jewish, prior to the alliance with Hitler. This would have doubtlessly smoothed his acceptance by some, Duck Soup notwithstanding, and Mussolini would probably died a hero, once again much like DeGaulle. Mussolini was not the buffoon that he is often portrayed as today, but his… Read more »

nailheadtom
3 years ago

The only thing historians do is question the official narrative of various historical events. History begins a few seconds ago and it gets harder and harder to revise as time passes. Historical revision is also met by fierce resistance from the forces of stability. Interested parties have an investment in maintaining a particular historical record that may or may not reflect reality. This is particularly reflected in the US public education system. Although the country was made up overwhelmingly of immigrants, the schools indoctrinated their pupils exclusively with a US history that included a minimum of information about the background… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  nailheadtom
3 years ago

“In communities of made up of Germans, Italians, Dutch, French and so on, the backgrounds of these people, extending back centuries, was ignored in favor of the short span of the American experience. Of course, this was a deliberate attempt to erase the culture of the immigrants and make them into good Americans. It worked.” Don’t you think emphasizing the differences of the ethnicities of the new arrivals would’ve worked against national unity? You believe that the treatment of the Indians by the whites was uniquely evil. You wish the differences of the immigrants had been emphasized. So what now?… Read more »

nailheadtom
Reply to  LineInTheSand
3 years ago

What is this “national unity” of which you speak?

I don’t wish for anything. I’m merely making an observation.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  nailheadtom
3 years ago

I think you hit the nail on the head 😀 As just one such American of the Germany ancestry as you mention (hardly unique, something like 40% have ancestry) I can attest that we still retain fragments of our heritage. In my case, it was little more than a love for beer, wurst and doing the “chicken dance” at Drunktoberfest.

MBlanc46
MBlanc46
3 years ago

Churchill did not become PM until May 10, 1940. the day of the German invasion of France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Whatever warlust he had or didn’t have, Churchill had nothing to do with the start of the Second World War. That is not alternative history, it’s actual history.

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  MBlanc46
3 years ago

“Churchill did not become PM until May 10, 1940” Before that he was named as the first lord of the admiralty, and before that he was forming an anti-Chamberlain coalition. In attempts to gain favor as a potential future PM, he talked a tough game and began criticizing Chamberlain for not being a fellow “tough guy.” In many ways, it was this political expediency which led to Chamberlain feeling forced to declare war in ’39. Churchill was also adamant on not signing any peace offers with Germany, and began riling up the masses with war-propaganda. Things kind of spiraled from… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Reynard
3 years ago

The Anglos are the masters of beneficial colonization.

Had the Anglos, Spanish, and French continued uplifting the brute Third World,
had Russians returned to aristocracy,
and had the Germanics cast Amel Mayer Rothschilds’ offspring from the banks and unified Europe–

We’d be headed for Alpha Centauri by now.

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  Alzaebo
3 years ago

Yeah I usually don’t hair split over geo-politics or whinge about “morals” or “fairness” when it comes to war. But WW2 and the whole current mythology built around it is an entirely different beast for so many reasons. I understand that there will probably always be a major power in the world no matter what, and I’d rather it be us. So in regards to current foreign affairs, does China have a sound claim for Taiwan? Probably. Is our treatment of trade in the south china sea unfair? Sure. But for the most part I won’t lose any sleep over… Read more »

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Reynard
3 years ago

China’s claim on Taiwan is analogous to a hypothetical Spanish claim on Cuba.

Sand Wasp
Sand Wasp
3 years ago

I don’t like alternative history. There is no way to test any ideas it generates, and the whole thing is usually just overwhelmed by the author’s personal biases.

The right needs more useless thinking and philosophy like a fat man needs another Twinkie.

B125
B125
Reply to  Sand Wasp
3 years ago

Agreed. I never bother with that. Could have been better, could have been worse, so what? It’s not what happened.

I prefer to live in reality not a fantasy world. Wasting time in Alternate History is no different than the Reagan boomers still thinking it’s 1985 and that Hispanics are natural conservatives.

Live in reality (even if it’s grim) and work for the future that you want to see.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

In defense of occasional fantasy, the frequency in which I find myself seeing a could-have-been really pretty young white woman with her lady bits shrink-wrapped and filleted in 4” of lycra exposing a massive thigh tattoo walking astride some nog in sportsball drag is such that my wont for some long expunged aesthetic is profound. Given we are already in some fascist hellscape, a few minutes of notsee alt-history where women wear braids and dresses and men are in buttoned up work attire with heads held high is a bit of junk food I allow myself. But to your point,… Read more »

Peabody
Peabody
Reply to  Screwtape
3 years ago

I had to go into one of the shitlibiest areas of shitlib central today and I cannot tell you Screwtape how much that last paragraph resonates. The next arrogant masked-up doughy neckbeard millennial who sasses me will feel the wrath of my disgust at all people who can’t even be bothered to wear clothing that fits. This stuff actually matters.

Yes, I had an encounter at one of Portland’s commie food markets today. Why do you ask?

old coyote
old coyote
Reply to  Screwtape
3 years ago

Well written,sir ! This short exposition highlights the all good and beautiful lost because we fought the wrong enemy in Europe, as General Patton said.
“the lost courage, grace, and decency of our people”….
Buried in a sewer remarkably similar to Weimar Germany; that Republic shared many other characteristics as to those who were running the country…

Whitespace
Whitespace
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

I don’t agree. I think in a time of lies and fraud, fiction is an even more relevant a lense through which to understand what’s going on in our culture and politics.

In some ways, the farther removed it was written in time and topic, the more clear and unbiased its view.

Brah
Brah
3 years ago

The obligatory “Man in the High Castle” comment. I watched that show and literally came away thinking “Boy, the American Nazi aesthetic is amazing. Maybe it wouldn’t have been so bad losing the war and splitting up the USSA between Japan and Germany.”

Will
3 years ago

OR What if we had sided with Germany in WWI and defeated France with England left out of the fight. No rise of Hitler, No Communist Russia: No WWII

Sand Wasp
Sand Wasp
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

I take the view that tiny insignificant things would have made a radically different world

If Lincoln’s father had grabbed his wife 2 seconds later, a different sperm would have fertilized the egg and someone else would have been born.

That someone else would have had a different life which would likely not involve getting elected President at the critical juncture.

All events that followed would have been altered in trillions of both subtle and profound ways that are impossible to know.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Sand Wasp
3 years ago

That’s why I say it literally could not have happened any other way. We are all captives of the past. If the past had happened any other way, we wouldn’t be here. Some other people might be here, just not us.

Federalist
Federalist
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

“…the Indians would have had to eat the Puritans after they arrived.”

Ah, what could have been.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

I can one-up for alternative history. 🙂 I can’t recall the author, but the short story has the protagonist go back in time to Central America just before Columbus’s landing. He’d learnt just enough of the native tongue to be understood. His mission (which he achieves) is to warn the natives of he arrival of the Spanish, whom are killed as soon as they land.

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  Will
3 years ago

Or what if we had stayed the hell out of WWI and the stalemate had resolved itself naturally thus no treaty of Versailles and thus no Hitler? We did not “win” the “War To End All Wars” but we damned sure tilted the scales in favor of GB and France and thus enabled the Treaty of Versailles. Something about avoiding entanglements just seems to ring true to me.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

Bill – prior to 1914 France was itching for another go @ Germany following their crushing defeat in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71. Napoleon III of France saw himself as much a military genius as his uncle; alas, it was quite the opposite.

Britain was pissed/jealous Kaiser Wilhelm was building up a blue water navy, in effect challenging the “Britannia Rules the Waves” meme. WWI was one huge family feud: Queen Victoria was aunt to Kaiser Wilhelm & Nicholas II of Russia.

Bill Mullins
Member
3 years ago

Alternative history is one of those things that should be more popular in Hollywood, as it opens the door for creativity. The problem with Zman’s thesis above is that in the Hollywierd of today creativity is something in extremely short supply. Whether it be behind the camera (executives, writers and directors) or in front of it there are damned few truly creative people making movies and television. Constructing a coherent alternative history requires not only creativity but a broad understanding not only of history but of how human systems operate. Today’s Hollywierd is composed of cultural illiterates who are pretty… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

“The Man in the High Castle”, while outlandish, was at least a mildly interesting alternative history with a mild sci-fi bend. Like most Hollywood productions that poz their popular series, at Season 3 the Nazis became more and more cartoonish and they added two homosexual and one lesbian relationship.

Pass.

Bartleby the Scrivner
Bartleby the Scrivner
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

Speaking of adding two homosexuals, Sesame Street now has introduced two daddies that are fags.

Talk about trying to get em young….

Fabian Forge
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

The Man In the High Castle was interesting. The first two seasons were really popular. For me (and I think I’m not alone in this) it was because the German occupied US was just so darn attractive.

I honestly think the showrunners were aware of and spooked by this, and accordingly went out of their way to make the later seasons ugly and stupid.

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

Note: “The Man In The High Castle” is a Hollywierd adaptation of brilliant, award winning author Phillip K. Dick’s novel of the same title. All Hollywierd did was take Dick’s work and adapt it for the small screen. Dick did the hard work. I have always wanted to see some good writer tackle a post-WWII world where Emperor Hirohito’s surrender message failed to get out (it damned near did!) and the U.S. actually had to invade the Japanese home islands. We would have had to have virtually depopulated Japan to win the war. Imagine a post war perion leading up… Read more »

Sand Wasp
Sand Wasp
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

If modern Hollywood made more alternative histories:

What if trans warriors led the Crusades?

What if gay rights had been the 1st amendment to the constitution?

What if Alexander the Great was born to a Nigerian tribewoman and black people conquered Europe?

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Sand Wasp
3 years ago

“What if Alexander the Great was born to a Nigerian tribewoman and black people conquered Europe?”

On that point, ‘White Man’s Burden’ with Travolta and Bellafonte was a well-done bit of Wakanda. Africans were the Founding Fathers, Travolta was a dumb janitor, a George Floyd with a job. Heh.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

You are correct Sir. I’m in the industry & I couldn’t concur more ;<)

Notice of Things
Notice of Things
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

Case in point: Disney just race swapped Snow White for the upcoming movie. They also made the Little Mermaid black. You can’t tell me Hollywood isn’t state media at this point because this stuff is definitely not what the audience wants,

Moe Noname
Moe Noname
3 years ago

It can be done. China is a mature, fascist dictatorship.

Not a place I would like to live, but I’m not Chinese.

Ambroży
Ambroży
3 years ago

“even if the British had not been so willing”. Appeasement policy is a myth. You start by saying Churchill had a lust for blood even though Chamberlain was in office when the British declared war on Deutschland AFTER they declared war on Poland and then you extend it to all the British. Bit of a greaseball move there. Same with the tactic where you initially talk about the British resposibility for war in the West and then extend it to the war in total. Sly.Sly.Sly. The explicitly stated core part of Hitler’s policy was war which is one of the… Read more »

FeinGul
FeinGul
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

BRITS OUT

Wait…come back!!

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

Yeah, the US didn’t go ga-ga over the Brits until WWII; Wilson wanted a seat at the global table in WWI, FDR wanted to be a superpower.

Hell, they burned our capital down in 1812, and damn near intervened in the Civil War on the south side (there’s some alternative history what-ifs!).

Dems are all European aristocratic wanna be’s. They can’t help it…all the inbreeding and going to the same 3 colleges.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  ProZNoV
3 years ago

What is we had invaded Canada after the Civil War (pay back for British interference). What a country we’d be with the land and resources of Canada. And hell, they speak English already!

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Compsci
3 years ago

Quebec from the Yukon to New Orleans… we owe them for Lafayette and the French Navy during the Revolutionary War.

Heck, that bankrupted Louis XIV and led to the French Revolution.

Reparations to Napoleon, I say!

Whitespace
Whitespace
Reply to  Compsci
3 years ago

Maybe back then. In the sector of ‘Canada’ I live, it’s mostly, Arabic, Indian dialects and some variety of pidgin.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  Compsci
3 years ago

French were bad-asses. The whole “French surrender monkeys” is some really misplaced US hubris. Sorry, NATO. Charles De Gaulle had your number and developed his own nukes. NATO (aka, the “USA” ) is not to be trusted. I don’t see large numbers of SERVING US officers signing letters calling their current political leadership into account. After you retire, and when you don’t get the Boeing/Lockheed defense department liaison job doesn’t count. Nor does Lt. Col. or below (sorry, no offense <= O-5's. Thank you for your service in 65 years of unwinnable/unwon wars of your political leaderships choice) French saved… Read more »

Phoenix
Phoenix
Reply to  Ambroży
3 years ago

The UK started WW ll

Deal with it.

FeinGul
FeinGul
3 years ago

The Situation;
I daresay things will remain on status quo until someone mistakes the Hammers for nails…

Wherein the Elites pick on the wrong group, that is choose the wrong enemy.

Falcone
Falcone
3 years ago

you’re a blond haired beach boy in 1960 and you wake up and you are the toast of the town and everyone wants a piece of you and girls are lining up out the beachside motel room to be with you. That same guy in 2021 is considered a domestic terrorist for Pete’s sake and they will send blacks out to burn down the motel with you inside screwing

Yes, always looking for enemies indeed

They keep cycling through the various peoples looking for the new bad guy

Sick people. Sick sick sick.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Falcone
3 years ago

“With you inside screaming”

Ha ha

But either makes some sense. Another random auto correct that has unintended comedic results

Three Pipe Problem
Three Pipe Problem
Reply to  Falcone
3 years ago

Autocorrect knows best.

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
3 years ago

I’m really worried about our youngest generation of white men. They are being taught that it’s shameful to be white, and that the only way they can atone for it is to destroy “whiteness” – aka their families, communities, and nations (and ultimately themselves). Many teens / 20 year olds have a weird attitude that I’ve never seen before, ultra quiet and almost as if they’re embarrassed to exist. How is a 4 year old today going to be in 20 years? I’m not sure that the average “non-racist” white Gen X or Millennial parents have the skills or knowledge… Read more »

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

“I’m not sure that the average “non-racist” white Gen X or Millennial parents have the skills or knowledge to teach their kids to overcome this evil brainwashing.” I agree with you. And it is most definitely evil. I say as much to many people, and the looks I get are quite interesting. You could be having a normal discussion about, say, the Covid sham, they’ll be nodding along… then you say it’s evil. A lot of people find it difficult to make the mental jump. Perhaps it is too painful to realize. Most definitely when all of us, most of… Read more »

B125
B125
Reply to  OrangeFrog
3 years ago

People raised atheist, in a high trust and white society, have a hard time understanding the concept of evil. “Just be a good person”, “don’t be an asshole”, “Love is love”, etc. are all modern GoodWhite slogans that prove this. I’ve even had conversations with white people, where they agreed with everything I said, and then told me that they prefer believing that everybody is a good person, anyways. “Just be a good person” works until you’re dealing with a bad person. Or, in other words, evil. Evil exists, and always will, because Satan exists, and is active. That’s why… Read more »

James J O'Meara
James J O'Meara
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

“That’s why “being nice” was never good enough to get into Heaven.”

“Being nice” wasn’t good enough not because “Satan is real” but because the Lutherans taught that “your good deeds are but menstrual cloths” (Romans 10, usually translated as “filthy rags”). I.e., you and everyone are born evil.

AND that’s why the “I’d rather believe” attitude is itself a product of Christianity: faith not good deeds.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

B125: You’re absolutely spot on; people think everyone should be ‘nice’ and then we’d all simply ‘get along.’ I believed in the existence of evil before I came to believe in God – my belief in evil helped me come to Christ. And too many Christians today try to pull off that separating the sinner from the sin. But if one gives oneself over to evil, by choice and of one’s own free will, there is no such separation. He is then evil. Even if he openly repents and is forgiven by a merciful God, this does not wipe clean… Read more »

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  OrangeFrog
3 years ago

I tend to.get testy when I hear some leftist going on about wanting to “change the world”. Even though I refrain, there are two questions I want to ask that person.

1. What makes you so certain the world REQUIRES changing?
and
2. What makes you think you have a clue
HOW to go about changing/i> it?

Talk about hubris!

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

“Changing the World” is all part of the Big Lie sold to young ‘uns in the state school system, I’d imagine. Whatever happened to having a job because it pays the bills and you may be lucky: you might enjoy it? Nowadays everything has a slogan, everything is ‘Amazing’. Today I had a call with a client on which a senior manager was listening. After, he made a point of telling ‘The Team’ (at this point still white) that my presentation was ‘Amazing’. I literally repeated to the rude and clueless Punjab present, everything I had previously mentioned in an… Read more »

James J O'Meara
James J O'Meara
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

Tikkun Olam, baby. It’s right there in the Bible.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

Very insightful. Hubris dates to at least 375 BC (Plato’s “Republic”.) At least, the dichotomy between the not-quite-satisfactory “apparent” world (the way things really are, I would say) versus his “Idea” or “Form”; for Plato the was one (or even more, per some critics) conceptions of the true, perfect world. Now there’s much validity to these different “worlds.” Many ideas, theories, etc. only exist in the human mind. Mathematics, geometry, or (much later) differential calculus, or for that matter, the Bill of Rights, all have real-world uses, but that doesn’t give them real-world claim to existence. To me, this mental… Read more »

Peabody
Peabody
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

A couple years ago I was having dinner with some former coworkers and one proudly told us how her son quit working at one of the evil megacorps (not how she put it or saw it) so he could go “help make the world a better place”. Preferably doing something about global warming. I said ‘Why not just produce something people actually need and raise some honorable children? That would certainly make the world a better place.’ She was highly offended. I didn’t care. These people and their neverending ego stroking will be the ruin of us all.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

True. Trained deference to prog.

Worse is that I think all this critical race pushback is nothing more than narrative shaping. Anti-reality is prone toward extremism and so the weeds get out ahead and must be control burned.

Anti-CRT in mainstream media would not be covered (and named/branded) if its work was not already done and now requires repackaging as a new chapter of progress.

“Feminist” has seen a similar evolution. Most young women dont see themselves as feminists. Whats the point when masculinity has been destroyed.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Screwtape
3 years ago

Agreed. In true stalinist form, the excesses of the extreme radicals will be cut off from official sanction for going too far, in order to allow retrenchment and establisment of “the conservative case for permanent anti-white apartheid.” They’ll dial back the craziest crazy and leave 80% of the progran.

Blacks are the new aristocracy.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
3 years ago

If those kids are anything like me and my classmates, they see the teacher as an old weirdo who couldn’t get a real job and pushing stupid shit from a stupid book and they let it go in one ear out the other In fact, the more they push this in schools, probably the better. They are turning this racial stuff into “the way old people think.” It’s the new hippy stuff, where when they were promoting all that in school we all just laughed it off Teachers are never good influencers b/c young people intuitively grasp they’re losers I… Read more »

TomA
TomA
3 years ago

Yes, it’s human nature to sacrifice one’s personal interests (or life) in service to the whole when an external existential threat arises. This behavior is often characterized as “heroism or patriotism.” And this proclivity is in our DNA because we are descended from ancestors who practiced this behavior and then thrived well enough to reproduce abundantly. So it works & therefore persists. And yes, this proclivity in our nature is being exploited in order to keep the herd marching in lockstep. Create a phony war (or threat of war) and the plebs will become compliant and sacrificial. But how many… Read more »

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  TomA
3 years ago

it’s human nature to sacrifice one’s personal interests (or life) in service to the whole when an external existential threat arises. … [T]his proclivity is in our DNA because we are descended from ancestors who practiced this behavior and then thrived well enough to reproduce abundantly.

Said proclivity conferred absolutely ZERO survival advantage in sub-saharan Africa and thus is essentially totally absent in joggers. The only Blacks who possess the trait are ones for whom there is a honkey or chink in the woodpile somewhere.

Marko
Marko
3 years ago

Gore Vidal once said that Kennedy (and presidents thereafter) were the first to take the USSR and Communism seriously, meaning they actually thought it was a viable political rival and a mortal danger. (Eisenhower in contrast was more worried about the United States’ power than the Soviets’.) So the constant war footing was developed during the Kennedy admin going forward. It had gotten so perverse by George Bush (the first) that we were looking for someone, anyone to curb-stomp. Now that all the tinpot dictatorships are on notice, the US turns its menacing gaze inward to white supremacy. Meanwhile China,… Read more »

Federalist
Federalist
3 years ago

“…if the British cut a deal with the Germans over Poland? If not for Churchill’s blood lust for war, a deal could have been made to avert war in the West.”

Why do you say Churchill wanted war? If a deal was made over Poland, would Germany not have made war in the West eventually?

I’m not suggesting you’re wrong. I’m genuinely asking your opinion.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

A “secret treaty”- what unabashed horsesh*t.

Alzaebi
Alzaebi
Reply to  Alzaebo
3 years ago

For some reason, I find that ‘factoid’ the most galling thing about the Official Version.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

Yes, after the Imperial Germans had made the colossal world-historical mistake of trying to challenge Britain’s mastery of the sea in the early 20th Century, two entire generations of British and anglophilic American statesmen (which meant all the important ones) were obsessed with the threat from Germany. Nothing in history is inevitable, but after the outcome of WWI, WWII was about as historically inevitable as anything can be.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
3 years ago

The fact the WWII is the Untouchable Good War is why Sean McMeekin is going to get cancelled, and probably sooner rather than later. Up until now, his work has challenged the Establishment in ways that they didn’t like, but did not strike at the basis of their power. I mean McMeekin pretty much proved that Lenin was a German agent, and that Imperial Russia, rather than Germany, was the prime mover behind WWI, which couldn’t have made many in the Uniparty happy, but it was pretty marginal stuff, and much of it was known anyway (Australian journalist Alan Moorehead… Read more »

Abelard Lindsey
Abelard Lindsey
3 years ago

No. The American empire has lasted as long as it has because there is enough productivity that the system can sustain itself even with the parasitical load of the ruling class and empire. This is also the reason why China did not collapse like the USSR and continues to grow to this day. Both empires have enough productivity to sustain themselves. Al though I think our parasites are getting to the point where they are starting to chock off further productivity. This is when empires start to collapse. I agree with you as to why the official story of WWII… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
3 years ago

Last week I had a conversation with a fellow dissident about Father Coughlin, a based version of Rush Limbaugh that had millions of Radio Listeners before WWII. Of course, he got shut down by the government after they went in war footing with Germany, which he vehemently opposed. Now he’s memory holed in history like he never existed. A conservative normie was also listening in and chimed. “Well, if he was against the war I can see why he was shut down, the Holocaust was happening.” I replied stating the obvious “And so it was right to ally with Communists… Read more »

Whitney
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

I don’t know where I heard this or read this and its probably apocryphal but I like it. At Yalta FDR said to Stalin we’re doing God’s work and Stalin replied we both know that’s not who were working for

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

Sadly ironic that Britain declared war on Germany over the invasion of Poland, then Churchill and Roosevelt handed Poland over to Stalin at Yalta.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Gespenst
3 years ago

Churchill pushed for bombing civilians and gas attacks, brought the British Empire to ruins, and betrayed his allies. If Nuremberg wasn’t a farce, he would have been the first to be hanged.

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

““Well, if he was against the war I can see why he was shut down, the Holocaust was happening.” That’s how it goes these days: against getting involved in The Second World War 2 = Wanting to gas the yids good an’ proper. These days, my shelves are chock full of history books – but given how much of a sham our institutions have become, I suspect they’re ‘history’ books. Sad. I don’t really like having to double, triple check every (mainstream) publication I read because our world is infested with wokeists. Still, I do know that I had an… Read more »

tristan
tristan
Reply to  OrangeFrog
3 years ago
3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  OrangeFrog
3 years ago

OrangeFrog: Is there similar revisionism in England today regarding Churchill? I know the woke are rewriting your history and it’s all about evil colonialism etc., but have there been efforts to reconsider WWII? You have a smaller percent of chosen but they’re heavily over represented among the political and media class, just as over here. Totally aside from their personal take on the war, has the average Englishman changed his opinion of Churchill? Of course, Churchill was voted out as soon as the war was over, so I question whether he was ever as ‘honored’ in England as he’s come… Read more »

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  3g4me
3 years ago

Yes, the woke are busy on Old Winston. My knowledge of Churchill came from querying very elderly relatives and other oldsters – this I started from the age of 15; and then from statements about him in history books. Above a certain age, and within a certain class, admiration of Churchill seems to be the norm. I don’t think many from this group have changed their view. Perhaps the younger generation have or just don’t care. But, nowadays, I know that the woke are doing their wicked work by applying the ‘Churchill Litmus Test’. Upon mentioning Churchill, if any in… Read more »

Carl B.
Carl B.
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

Maybe so, but what about the Empire of Japan?

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  Carl B.
3 years ago

Japan got what they deserved, and I think even today they know it.

Still, it was the US that kicked the hornets nest with Admiral Perry’s White Fleet. Otherwise, they would’ve been happy to stay isolated.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  ProZNoV
3 years ago

That raises a question. What did Japan have that we needed so badly?

Benjos? (open latrines)

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
3 years ago

we would have been better off just letting the Germans and Commies duke it out. And we.might well have done so if the Emlpire of Japan hadn’t succeeded in pulling off the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. I have read that there were at least 5 Enigma.machines in DC while there were precisely ZERO at Pearl. Since we know that the EoJ’s declaration of war (which was supposed to have been delivered just before the attack but was delayed due to the incompetence of the Japanese diplomats with sufficient clearance to decode and translate the message) was.decoded and translated long… Read more »

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

FDR knew about 24 hours in advance that the japanese were coming for pearl harbor; he let it happen on purpose so he could get war powers, as the New Deal was failing and his court packing had disrupted his domestic mandate for dictatorial powers. Evil does evil. We had broken their admiralty codes already. And enigma was a german cipher, the germans didn’t attack in the Pacific.

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
3 years ago

But the Japanese used enigma machines. Enigma was not merely a cypher it was a whole family of machines for encrypting and decrypting messages. Each model machine came with multiple code wheels which could be inserted in any order and started in any desired starting configuration. But don’t just take my word for it, read about it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine

BTP
Member
3 years ago

If war is the natural need of all systems of government, then maybe a system where a large number of small states have a dedicated, but small, number of people who do all the fighting might have the best hope for stability. They’d get paid, of course, but most of the fighting would be limited to these spats between small groups of people who do nothing else but fight. Hell, make it a hereditary group to keep the numbers down. That would give everyone else a chance to focus on their own estate, whether that is working or building up… Read more »

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

The Swiss haven’t needed war.

sentry
sentry
Reply to  Jack Boniface
3 years ago

that’s cause Switzerland is the elite hq, that’s where elites & communists coordinated all sorts of revolutions in the past, heck that’s where schwhab coordinates his plandemic.

James J O'Meara
James J O'Meara
Reply to  sentry
3 years ago

There was a joke National Review types used to tell back in the day. There’s a big Soviet celebration and the Leader announces that “Soon, all nations, except for Switzerland, will be communist.” Cheers, etc. Later, an official cautiously asks the Leader why not Switzerland. The leader looks at him like he’s an idiot, and says “Who else will set the prices?”

sentry
sentry
Reply to  Jack Boniface
3 years ago

also, the swiss were renowned ruthless mercenaries, they needed war, but not on their territory.

Bill Mullins
Member
Reply to  thezman
3 years ago

“Total war did not exist until the 18th century.”

I have to disagree. I studied ancient Near Eastern history (Biblical times/area) and those ancient empires definitely waged as close to “total war” as was possible with the technology of the day. They for sure did not discriminate between combatants and “civilians”. I think that the concept of “limited war” is what is of recent vintage.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

Bill, you might be right here, depending upon your definition of total—as in eliminating a population. Reich in his book notes some interesting genealogical tracing of ancient populations that simply “disappeared” after invasion—often the male line as the females had other options. 😉

James J O'Meara
James J O'Meara
Reply to  Bill Mullins
3 years ago

Funny you should mention the Near East. I’ve long held that “total war” aka “unconditional surrender” is a Jewish concept. Aryan nations had concepts like chivalry, honor, “worthy opponent,” “loyal opposition” etc. while YHVH taught the Jews to annihilate their enemies. We had a bit of that with Sherman in the Civil War, but the whole “destroy the enemy” mentality arose in the XXth century with the rise of our alien elite. It’s the same with Cancel Culture: either you agree completely, or you’re destroyed. It also makes one suspicious of Hitler; like the Master Race, Nazi exterminationism seems more… Read more »

nailheadtom
Reply to  James J O'Meara
3 years ago

Oliver Cromwell didn’t give any quarter.

Tykebomb
Tykebomb
3 years ago

I know I’m missing the point, but Nazism did have a plan for an infinite enemy. The drive to the east ended at the Ural. From there Germans would wage forever war on the Slavs.

Which sounds insane. I mean imagine a state surrounded by racial enemies slowly taking territory one apartment block at a time. Slowly over 70 years and despite numerous wars both hot and cold.

That would have never worked.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Tykebomb
3 years ago

the nazis actually had a plan to take over the entire world, and were going to euthanize the nigs in africa along the way. i guess if you are dreaming, you dream big….

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

The Fuehrer sure did like to dream big… just look at his ideas for tanks; which appear to have caused Guderian much amusement and consternation.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  OrangeFrog
3 years ago

oh man those giant tank designs are fun to look at 🙂

Tykebomb
Tykebomb
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

Nazi plans were almost exclusively concerned with the European Steppe. It was only in 1940, after they defeated France in 6 weeks, that they even opened a colonial office. It was a sign of how invincible they felt in that moment.

The idea that Germany posed a threat to the colonial empires is a fiction to justify Britain’s continued fight.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

Karl, Hitler certainly regarded Africans as an inferior race (as did most whites at the time, TBH), but he never really had much to say about them (at least not that I could find), and the few blacks in Germany at the time were subject to the Nuremberg Laws, but were not sent to camps, and a few Blacks even served in the Wehrmacht! After the 1936 Olympics, Jesse Owens complained of being snubbed by Roosevelt, not Hitler, who saluted him (sitting) when he waved. What makes you say that Hitler was going to genocide Africans? I’m not necessarily doubting… Read more »

Whitney
Member
Reply to  Tykebomb
3 years ago

Did you just describe Israel?

I.M.
I.M.
Reply to  Tykebomb
3 years ago

Very much on point for this thread: the alternate history novel Fatherland has still-Nazi Germany now a nuclear power (it’s how, in that tale, they defeated Britain), locked in that exact forever war you describe. At least as of the early 60s when the tale is set.

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  I.M.
3 years ago

It’s a good book. Robert Harris also write another called Archangel, which was not really alternate history, but concerns itself with the concealment of the son of Stalin, who’s a dead ringer for his old man. The plan is to unleash the ‘new’ Stalin. I’ve probably spoiled it for you, but I thought it quite a fun read.

Boris
Reply to  I.M.
3 years ago

“ the alternate history novel Fatherland has still-Nazi Germany now a nuclear power…” I’m sure there are some original Star Trek series fans here. Remember “City on the Edge of Forever”? While on a landing party on some previously unexplored planet Kirk, Spock, and McCoy go back in time thru some weird portal. They go back to circa 1930s earth, Chicago or NYC. McCoy changes earth and maybe even galactic history by saving a woman that went on to found and lead an even bigger and more more successful version of Lindy’s America First movement to keep America out of… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  I.M.
3 years ago

$112 on Amazon for the used paperback, no Kindle edition available. *chortle*

David Wright
Member
3 years ago

Wasn’t this all explained very well by Orwell?

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
3 years ago

uhm, ok, so the west makes a deal with hitler (instead of fighting in 1939). didn’t someone else make a deal with AH? how did that work out. wasn’t there a “deal” before the poland incident? hard to keep going on this post when there is such a clanger up front.

Pete
Pete
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

I think the point is, we should have let Russia and Germany fight it out themselves. Germany would have exhausted itself as all empires do. Russia would have been so spent that the Communist regime might have collapsed too, thus preventing the 40 years of cold war.

Upside: We wouldn’t have spent hundreds of thousands of American lives on a cause that was none of our concern.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Pete
3 years ago

was that point made in the post?

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

In hindsight the only forward thinker in Europe at the time, probably accidentally, was Franco who looked at WWII and the Cold War and said “no thanks”. For everyone else we really cannot remove them from their time and the British were not too keen to let Germany dominate the continent even if evil mustache man wasn’t the one in charge (see: WWI).

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
3 years ago

Franco decided to sit it out largely because the country was ready for a rest from the recent events of 1936-39. He did get Uncle Adolf to remodel Guernica, however 🙂

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

The farther away we get from the 1930’s and 1940’s the better Franco looks, for all his faults. Any man who saved his country from both Communist revolution and Nazi/Allied occupation is quite a statesman, regardless of what one might think of some of his methods.

Boarwild
Boarwild
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
3 years ago

Plus he sent the volunteer Spanish Blue Division which saw heavy action on the Leningrad/Volkhov front & acquitted itself admirably.

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  Boarwild
3 years ago

True. They were mostly Falangist volunteers. Franco, royalist that he was, worked hard to bring the Falange to heel after the Civil War. Encouraging Blue Shirts to go attrition themselves on the Steppes was a win-win thing for him.

Mind you, I like the Falange anthem, Cara al Sol. YouTube hasn’t censored all of the clips yet.

She Was A Constitution Nut
She Was A Constitution Nut
Reply to  karl mchungus
3 years ago

Yes, Dolfy made a deal with Steel guy to the east, but he’d also made it clear in Mein Kampf that his military and territorial ambitions were largely eastward. He was a land animal with no proper blue water navy, so there was never for a moment any significant probability of a German invasion of North America. There is no alternate history in which the members of every chamber of commerce are all speaking German and only German.