The Death Of Burke

A key contribution of neoconservatives to the conservative movement launched by Bill Buckley in the middle of the last century was the assertion that conservatism is a means justifies the ends ideology. Unlike the Left, the Right will accept less than optimal outcomes as long as they are the result of a just process. Further, conservatives are not reactionaries, instinctively defending order. Instead, conservatism is the defense of liberal processes against the assaults of the illiberal Left.

One reason that these former members of the Left and the emerging new Right found agreement is they both agreed with Edmund Burke on key points. One was Burke’s description of revolution. The liberals who would go on to become neoconservatives did not see themselves as revolutionaries. Like their new conservative friends, they viewed themselves as defenders of liberal order and the liberal process that is contained in and constrained by tradition and institutions.

In his observations about revolutionary France, Burke noted that revolutions seek to cut themselves off from the past. The desire for an entirely new beginning must lead to a repudiation of the past. This divorce from the historical timeline means they have no sense of themselves and their place in history. This is the source of their inherent instability, and why they become murderous. For those who see themselves as defenders of liberal order, this is what makes revolution dangerous.

The other broad area of agreement between these former leftists and their new friends on the Right was on institutions. Burke’s great contribution to the Anglo-Right is his defense of institutions and traditions as constraints on power. Traditions give meaning to daily life, but they also play a key role in shaping the people. The voluntary associations like churches, clubs and so on maintain and nourish the social capital of the people and provide a balance to sovereign power.

Even today, you hear the legacy conservatives talk about Edmund Burke as their ideal conservative stateman. Yoram Hazony, the ultra-Zionist political theorist, named his think tank “The Edmund Burke Foundation”. Modern neoconservatives like Ben Shapiro love quoting Edmund Burke. It is one of the few things upon which traditionalist conservatives agreed with the former leftists. They saw Burke’s philosophy as the center of their understanding of conservatism in a liberal society.

The idea that conservatism is the defense of the existing processes has had a powerful impact on the arc of American society. By elevating process over ends, conservatism built into their defense of tradition and order vulnerabilities that the radicals have been able to exploit for generations. In other words, the very nature off conservatism as the bulwark against radicalism has as part of its design a set of contradictions that must always lead to its retreat in the face of the radical onslaught.

The first of those is the unequivocal defense of process over results. What this has meant, in practice, is the conservative defense of every radical gain. Once the Left can find a way to warp the process to support their ends, they turn their opponents into the most strident defenders of this new order. Abortion is the obvious example. Once the radicals changed the law through the courts, the conservatives agreed that it can only change again through the courts.

This has been the motivation for conservatives to get as many of their judges on the court as possible. The trouble is, in order to be a conservative judge, one must pledge to defend precedent and the traditional functioning of the courts. It is why every conservative judge nominated to the high court must sit in front of Congress and swear to never question the precedents used in support of Roe v Wade. It is why this current court will defend radicalism against all challenges.

The other vulnerability that the radicals have exploited for several generations is that the conservative fetish for means over ends prevents them from questioning the morality of radical goals. Since Marx, the central claim of radicalism is that they are trying to achieve a more virtuous and moral society. Because a just society is such a worthy goal, it justifies radical measures, including violence. Those who stand between now and the better world deserve what they get.

By focusing solely on the means in which political goals are achieved, the conservative must accept the morality of those ends if they are the result of the liberal process, which is the root of their political morality. This is why the “conservative case for…” is an internet meme. Since compromise is always the goal of Burkean conservatism, the first step is in figuring out jhow radical goals can fit into the conservative process. If trannies can be the result of the liberal order, trannies are conservative.

More important, this myopia means the Right can never question the morality of the Left’s stated goals. In fact, they are allergic to it. You see this with the reaction to the Critical Race Theory issue. Conservatives recoiled in horror when it was pointed out that CRT is explicitly antiwhite. The idea of addressing the morality of radical ends is anathema to the conservative mind. Instead, they had to frame it is bad process in pursuits of a worthy goal.

Edmund Burke wrote from the perspective of a man standing on the walls of an old social order looking out over Europe struggling to maintain order. His defense of the British social order was perfectly rational, especially in contrast to the horrors that were unleashed by the French Revolution. Like the social order he once defended, the Burkean conservatism is no longer relevant. The current order is inherently immoral and at odds with anything that a man of the Right should defend.

Further, Burkean conservatism prevents the actions required to overthrow this current order and institute a new moral order. If one is prevented from declaring the current state of things immoral and the goals of its champions as grossly immoral, then there is no way to fight the gathering darkness. If the preservation of the West and the people that make it possible must be sublimated to an abstract process, then conservatism can never conserve anything. It is part of the problem.

This is why the first order of attack for the dissident is conservatism. As long as people are willing to accept “well we have to respect the election results” as an excuse for not opposing evil, there is no escaping the gathering darkness. It is only when the opponents of radicalism commit to its utter destruction through any means necessary that the tides of war will change. That necessarily requires consigning Edmund Burke and his followers to the ash heap of history.


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PASARAN
PASARAN
2 years ago

As Orwell often said, words matters.
I add on this comment sections many time than “Conservatism” is a lost cause in the beginning. No matter burkean or not. Conservatism means “conserve”. In any definitions.
So, it’s not Burke which is to put on the garbage, but CONSERVATISM itself.

Rwc1963
Rwc1963
2 years ago

Overly complicated analysis. The Left has always had two goals. 1) The acquisition of power 2) Stripping law abiding citizens of self-determination and defense. They’ve always hated the lower class whites – you can see it with their gun grabs started in the 70’s while coddling criminals. We see it today with the imposition of the police state that directly targets whites. All those other issues are either throwaways or wedge issues to keep the proles agitated and divided. Though they do throw a bone to their base voters to keep them in the corral. Hence AA, set asides. Etc.… Read more »

I.M. Brute
I.M. Brute
2 years ago

“It is only when the opponents of radicalism commit to its utter destruction through any means necessary that the tides of war will change.”
They’ll never raise an army of real-world footsoldiers as long as there’s one beer in the fridge and a ball game on TV!

JohnWayne
JohnWayne
Reply to  I.M. Brute
2 years ago

Sabotage. Is there any other explanation that makes sense? We have been colonized by China, who does our manufacturing, supplies our drugs and medical supplies, and funds our profligate spending, and our woke military is a mere shadow of its former self, whose hope lies in the imagination that diversity is our magical strength. Our national debt is $28,600,000,000,000 and growing rapidly. Trillions, trillions with a T. Inflation, which means higher interest rates. What is the break point? Round about $30 trillion, interest hits 5, 7, 9%? I’m not a genius or an economist, but isn’t it clear that we… Read more »

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
2 years ago

A key contribution of neoconservatives to the conservative movement launched by Bill Buckley in the middle of the last century was the assertion that conservatism is a means justifies the ends ideology. As much as I despise the neocons – that sentiment is much older than them. As demonstrated by this quote from more than a hundred years ago: … conservatism. This is a party which never conserves anything. Its history has been that it demurs to each aggression of the progressive party, and aims to save its credit by a respectable amount of growling, but always acquiesces at last… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
2 years ago

Respect the process?!

Our kids are overvaccinated, narcoticized, sick, obese, autistic freaks while our unaffordable housing, schooling, and medical is given to scheming aliens.

Conservatives worship the process over survival. How the fudge did we fall for this? Because of snobs quoting minor authors from 200 years ago? Jeez..

A.B Prosper
A.B Prosper
2 years ago

In the end of this mess all the niceties like bans on writs of attainder, corruption of the blood, collective punishment, nits make lice and guilt by association among others will end up taking a holiday. No matter who is doing what to who. The trick is for the new boss, hopefully our boss not the same as the old boss to keep it in an interregnum and to restore the good parts of liberalism however few there are. That said rebuilding some thing we had even recently isn’t insanely impossible. What we we need is simply a good place… Read more »

krustykurmudgeon
krustykurmudgeon
2 years ago

did you guys hear about cuomo today? I wonder if this is a way to get rid of him because of the nursing home scandal. Or maybe its a bluff to get him to resign (see Matt Gaetz).

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
2 years ago

It’s great whatever the ulterior motives.

Hoping they jail the anti-white pos.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
2 years ago

Or maybe to clear the field for Cameltoe in 2024.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
2 years ago

NY AG Jones is an even bigger moonbat.

If she’s selected as NY Gov plan on asset seizure and camps for white men weeks after she takes office.

krustykurmudgeon
krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
2 years ago

the person who’s next in line is kathy hochul who is conservative by ny dem standards.

Whiskey
Whiskey
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
2 years ago

Its a power play. This stuff has been known for decades. Its coming out now because the Progressive Wing, the AOC group, wants Cuomo gone and someone even harder, worse left and more anti-White. The AG after dithering, has sided with the AOC Wing. So has the Speaker of the Assembly. Pelosi, Schumer, and Biden have all sided with the Progressives. HOWEVER, Cuomo is very corrupt. Which means he has a massive war chest, the attention of donors, and can retaliate by cutting off funding to to people as the Fed funds flow in, and donor funding for campaigns. His… Read more »

The Wild Geese
The Wild Geese
2 years ago

Vaxpartheid update:

So, my GlobHom MIC firm just reinstated mandatory face diapers for all, regardless of jab status.

Lots of grumbling from normies.

Is it too soon for me to start asking them if I can have their houses and cars when they start dropping like flies from ADE this winter?

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  The Wild Geese
2 years ago

I am definitely on the far side of the anti-vaxx spectrum.

In fact I am hoping the shots are “soft mandated” through businesses and retailers etc so I have an excuse to drop out. All I need is a little nudge.

But yes I want to see what all transpires come the next flu season. If the vaxxed start dropping like flies, then my anti-vaxx stance will be proven the smart move.

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

same

please fire me so i have an excuse to leave me monotonous boring job at anti white globo corp X

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Good point. They’d be swelling the dissident ranks.

Not My Usual Pen Name
Not My Usual Pen Name
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

please fire me so i have an excuse to leave me monotonous boring job at anti white globo corp X So that your own personal work-from-home S-Corp/LLC can be contracted with to do the actual work which the remaining Woke Inc employees are utterly incapable of performing in your absence. SRSLY. Start learning the basics of creating your own S-Corp, and draw up all the relevant documents, and learn how to file with your state’s Secretary of State, and how to get your tax number from the federal IRS, etc etc etc, so that you can hit the ground running… Read more »

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

I want us to get together for a bigass cookout. We could tie our masks to fireworks and aim them at “hate has no home here” signs.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

I, too, am “vaccine hesitant,” as they delicately put it 🙂 i don’t know if ADE is in the cards, but surely ongoing disclosures about incipient side effects of the jabs, as well as how they offer less than complete protection against the latest variant. The fall is going to be interesting, not in the least because when Nanny State gets its full FDA approval of products, which is already signaled, they will be able to use more coercion to force inoculations. Will the remaining sheep line up, or will there be more resistance? (“Yes.” 🙂 ) Anecdotally, I now… Read more »

Moe Noname
Moe Noname
Reply to  The Wild Geese
2 years ago

On a positive note, at least the goodwhites and Globocorp have their scapegoats already lined up: bad-whites who don’t believe in !SCIENCE! (patent pending).

Once those bad people are fired from their jobs, denied access to food & healthcare, their children muzzled and sterilized and savings confiscated, everything will be great and things can get back to normal.

Lucky for them, none of the bad-whites have access to small arms or large quantities of ammunition.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Moe Noname
2 years ago

Please PLEASE Fauci and Biden and Newsome, brand me a no-good evil bad-white so I have no choice but to exile myself to a small country town along a river with fresh fish and tons of game and no joggers for hundreds of miles

I will never be able to work again? No! No! Don’t do that [snicker snicker]. How will I ever survive?

These morons don’t realize that half the country is wanting to get kicked out of their society and would be happy to oblige

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Noooo

You mean Karen won’t invite me to her Lunch N Learn anymore? I won’t get the opportunity to hear her tell me how important she is?

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

And no cable?

No sports?

No McDonalds?

Waaaaahhhhhhh

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  The Wild Geese
2 years ago

Talk about “defending the process”!

They forgot the old conservative adage that the early supporters of the revolution are first against the wall.

Welp, these are the ones who told us we can build jails til freedom, and drug test our way to cheap insurance and full employment.

Beware the insurance mandates.
That’s where they’ll get us.

I mean, as long as they follow process, it’s legal, right? Just like legal immigration.

Not My Usual Pen Name
Not My Usual Pen Name
Reply to  The Wild Geese
2 years ago

Is it too soon for me to start asking them if I can have their houses and cars when they start dropping like flies from ADE this winter?

Here is your script:

comment image

Go foarth and deploy it.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Not My Usual Pen Name
2 years ago

Be fruit flies, and multiple 😀

Spingerah
Spingerah
Reply to  The Wild Geese
2 years ago

We work for the same company, at least the smell in the same.

Falcone
Falcone
2 years ago

This is for 3g4me on her lengthy post about family formation The “reply” button wasn’t available, so starting fresh So basically, yes, I hear ya and I get it. I’m thinking it’s time families start thinking about buying a decent size piece of land or adjacent parcels and creating a “family compound.” I don’t know what else can be done if you’re not rich. And I think things are heeding that way. I know I hear more and more people talking about it. And I know when I frequent real estate site always looking for something that this is now… Read more »

ArthurinCali
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

You just tapped into what a lot of us are thinking.

The warped belief that I have one iota in common with my fellow HOA members is a farce. The magic dirt theory is the biggest scam going. For all the time I spent overseas there never was a moment I felt Japanese, or Guamanian.

If we are to be reduced to atomized economic units, the best strategy is to be close to the ones we love.

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Very based comment from her. I have come to the same conclusion, though I choose not to write it so explicitly. There is simply no room for negotiation or even discussion with any of them. We’re still in the early stages of this too. Soon it will simply be impossible for a white person to rent any kind of decent accommodation in an urban area, regardless of price. Many Indians here are now saying “Indian Only” in their posting. Chinese just post it on Chinese only websites or rent it to mainland Chinese who are coming over. Housing discrimination is… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Yeah one of the great things about 2021 is realizing that boomers, if they have a great skill, it’s been at convincing younger people they are brilliant.

Finally the farce of all of this is coming to light.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

A couple of years ago, when I first started commenting here, I got accused of fedposting. Today I almost feel like a squish. I like it.

Andy Texan
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

If you want a good profession that is nearly immune from globohomo corporate world, pays well, is easy and provides independence. Get thee into real estate (as long as the dollar and economy holds up).

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Falcone: And our land loan was just approved. Even if we have to pitch a tent if things get sporty before we finish building, at least we now have a spot that is ours to put it on. Lots of trees and very few people, and room for all immediate family members.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Awesome news

For future reference, another option is to find acreage with a mobile home. Not that it has to become the permanent residence but that it means the land already has water/well, septic/sewer, but most importantly power. Vacant land without them and you are looking at lots of time and costs. So you can always build on place on the land, keep the mobile home if you want as a second residence or whatever, etc.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Falcone: We found exactly that, but passed on it. Mobile homes have a general shelf-life of perhaps 25-30 years, and the one we saw was old. Yes, there was a well and a septic system, but we would have paid an extra $100k for the mobile home with land rather than raw land. And unless you’re planning on living in it immediately, you have to secure the premises, and pay to have the area mowed, and keep the heat and AC on to prevent extremes of temperature indoors and the growth of mold. So much higher initial cost and continued… Read more »

Not My Usual Pen Name
Not My Usual Pen Name
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

land loan

¿¿¿USURY???

What’s your new income stream gonna be for paying it off?

I despise Dave Ramsey’s scofield-heresy prosperity-gospel ministry-of-satanism, but Ramsey is dead-on when it cums to the question of ¡¡¡USURY!!!

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

The problem some of us face is the old boomer issue: muh jobs. The reason we are very far from grandparents is that we couldn’t get any decent paying jobs near them. I can be somewhere affordable and unable to afford anything, or somewhere “unaffordable” but with good income. Then, we moved but now property prices are exploding, and the people we hoped to have come along with us cannot afford to do so anymore. The remote work-from-home thing is hopefully a fix, we’ll see. My hope is for Reverse Oregon Trail groups, then buy colocated or very close/same neighborhood… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
2 years ago

There are lots of properties in major cities, closely located to well-paying jobs. Many of them have been neglected and could be fixed up. Sometimes they are. The only hitch is we would need to remove about 70 years worth of barnacles before they would be fit for human habitation 😀

cameron
cameron
2 years ago

“conservatism is the defense of liberal processes against the assaults of the illiberal Left.”

True and a very concise definition of conservatism. Excellent.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  cameron
2 years ago

Stare decisis = I’m a filthy degenerate whore for the Fortune 500 and I love baby killing even if I’m a “good Catholic” who doesn’t like baby killing.

Jack Charlton
Member
2 years ago

“This is why the first order of attack for the dissident is conservatism.”

Indeed. Good framing of the Conservative Left, Liberal Left and Illiberal Left as one, big happy family. Along with the Civnats and Neocons, I would include the materialistic, antiwhite Evangelical movement as well. Judeo-Puritanism has wrought immeasurable damage to Anglo history, culture and identity. The ‘kingdom of God’ now means a wing of minor influence in the GOP next to the AIPAC, CFR and LGBTQ tables in a fancy conference, not the poor white families down the street.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
2 years ago

Z-Man makes conservatives out to be relativists. Perhaps he’s right. However, during the later Cold War, those very conservatives were not chary of condemning the Soviet Union as the “Evil Empire.” Hardly relativistic rhetoric. The trick, it seems, is convincing contemporary conservatives that they now reside in the new Evil Empire. Alas, that is a bridge too far because ‘Murica, bigosh!

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
2 years ago

But WHY were they called the evil empire? Because they had goals that they accomplished that were evil, or was it because they were authoritarian and didn’t follow the democratic process? There’s a smattering of the former, but a heaping portion of the latter.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
2 years ago

A smattering? Heh. Well, alright…

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
2 years ago

20 million dead is pretty evil. Just because the modern United States is a shitshow doesn’t mean that you can’t do worse. The USSR of 1917-1991 was worse that the US of that period, and generally much worse. The fact that today’s USA is about as bad as the USSR of the 1980’s doesn’t change that.

Dennis Roe
Dennis Roe
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
2 years ago

Because you need an enemy to justify the the greed and corruption, the mountains of money, pissed away.

Bob Brodie
Bob Brodie
2 years ago

Burke was never even a member of the Tory Party and yet he is supposed to be the founder of modern ‘Conservatism’. The whole thing is a ruse.

How long has Burke even been a ‘thing’? I’m 53 and British and I don’t recall Burke being discussed by the Conservatives (or anyone else) until very recently. Adulation of him is suspiciously recent.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Bob Brodie
2 years ago

These are phony baloney Republicans who started dropping his name years ago to show how learned they are. They’re telling the rubes in middle America that they took the prerequisite Poli-Sci 101 class in 1970.

Not My Usual Pen Name
Not My Usual Pen Name
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 years ago

BB: How long has Burke even been a ‘thing’? I’m 53 and British and I don’t recall Burke being discussed by the Conservatives (or anyone else) until very recently. JR: These are phony baloney Republicans who started dropping his name years ago to show how learned they are. They’re telling the rubes in middle America that they took the prerequisite Poli-Sci 101 class in 1970. I have to agree with BB here: The whole thing stinks to high heaven of an Harry-Jaffa/Norman-Podhoretz/Irving-Kristol Frankfurt School psy-op cooked up back circa 1955ish. And the kinds of malleable & dutifully obedient shabbos-goysiche personality… Read more »

Spingerah
Spingerah
Reply to  Not My Usual Pen Name
2 years ago

MOAB
get er done.

OrangeFrog
OrangeFrog
Reply to  Bob Brodie
2 years ago

If you’re British, I have it on rather good authority that ‘berk’ (As in “What a berk!”) is rhyming slang for Berkeley Hunt – which of course means ‘cunt’.

Every time I hear of Burke, I think of ‘berk’ and am highly amused. They sound the same. And one means a very rude word.

I don’t think I would have made it through political science class…

bilejones
Member
Reply to  OrangeFrog
2 years ago

Berkshire Hunt.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Bob Brodie
2 years ago

Burke became a thing in America through Russell Kirk. It was, in it’s time, a great improvement over what we were given to identify with.

TOrlando
TOrlando
Reply to  Bob Brodie
2 years ago

I think Ed’s rehab on Le Right dates mostly to Russell Kirk writing in the 50s. He was always more of a safe left-pop figure before that, the Donny Osmond to Lenin’s Jagger. I remember some positive write-ups on Burke from C. Hitchens, lol

Enoch Cade
Enoch Cade
Reply to  Bob Brodie
2 years ago

Russell Kirk began his book “the conservative mind”’with a section on Burke. That does not mean that the likes of Hazony or Shapiro have either read or understood Burke. H

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
2 years ago

Shapiro quotes Burke because he knows no one in his audience will read him. Burke wasn’t shy about bringing up the danger of (((them))) and how they cause problems in society. You know Burke is an empty vessel these days when he’s often quoted by another one I can’t stand, Peggy Noonan, whose claim to fame is Reagan’s saccharine, overwrought Challenger Speech. This supposed real deal Reaganite has been shitting all over anyone to the right of her since the 90’s. And that tells you that even when “conservatives” were in power in the late 20th Century, they were at… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 years ago

Aha. Didn’t Burke die in debtor’s prison? Locke and Adam Smith suffered similar fates of penury, I think.

Crabe-Tambour
Crabe-Tambour
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

No, he died at home in 1797, reportedly from tuberculosis. His political successes during his career were few, but he was a respected political thinker who was a formidable opponent of nihilists like Thomas Payne (who cheated the blade when the Revolution’s feeding frenzy claimed Robespierre) and Rousseau. Burke’s principles–or those of anyone else–are admittedly out of date. What is there that is worth “conserving?” These days, if we’re to vote at all, policy and philosophy must be downstream from identity for the foreseeable future. Still, I want to hold on to ideals, principles and conviction. I just wish that… Read more »

TOrlando
TOrlando
Reply to  JR Wirth
2 years ago

Noonan really is a Reagan Democrat. She said on a C-SPAN interview that she only joined the Reps because of busing

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
2 years ago

Our antecedents sure built a heavy bulwark against nature. A nice, fluffy pillow to smother us with, strangely enough.

imbroglio
imbroglio
2 years ago

“It is only when the opponents of radicalism commit to its utter destruction through any means necessary that the tides of war will change. That necessarily requires consigning Edmund Burke and his followers to the ash heap of history.” This conclusion may be a bit simplistic. Also, unless they’re typos, racialism twice appears instead of radicalism (twice traveling on radial tires!) Pedantry aside, you seem to be saying that “Leftists” must be opposed with their own weapons in a dogfight struggle for power. Maybe that means destroying the village to save it. Christian conservatives have been left out of the… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  imbroglio
2 years ago

Maybe the west isn’t dying

Maybe it’s the the anglosphere that is

Australia seems to have gone off the rails. England is a mess. America is shot. Canada is multicultural vomit. We fucked up. Maybe it’s just us.

I want to see what happens in places like Hungary, Poland even the heart of true Russia before I say it’s a “western” downfall. Could be the snake of western civilization is shedding his skin and growing another one somewhere else.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Falcone on fire lately 🙂

I was thinking about it this morning. The western tradition seems to be barbarians conquering the civilized. Macedonians, Germans, Vikings, etc.

I expect that to be the case this time. The question is whence the barbarians. Will it be the immigrants our civilized masters keep dumping on us, or will it be the barbarian from within?

The show trials tell you who tptb feel threatened by.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Paintersforms
2 years ago

It’s going to come from somewhere. Being an art historian person as opposed to a political or philosophical oriented historian and thinker, what I am looking for is where a new revitalized and reinvigorated art movement takes place. It always precedes and gives the heart and soul to what later becomes a widespread civilizational rebirth.

Epaminondas
Epaminondas
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

And, as Clarke said, “true genius always slips through the net.”

Ag
Ag
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Excellent point. The northwest portion of Western Europe exhausted themselves artistically, to the point of embracing primitivism. If a new artistic tradition emerges, perhaps from the Slavic nations, the West may be salvageable.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Indeed, art being the expression of a culture’s vitality.

In that case, sounds like East Asia or the American South to me. As long as they aren’t capital-driven distortions.

karl mchungus
karl mchungus
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

poland and russia are not part of the west.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  karl mchungus
2 years ago

Russia is not, at least from a general historical perspective (it’s definitely not from a religious and linguistic perspective). Poland is, though, seeing as how it only exists because of Catholic Germans.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Drew
2 years ago

Poland is mostly on the wrong side of the Hajnal line, and the issue is one of peoples not later political divisions.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Drew
2 years ago

If you exclude Russia on linguistic and religious grounds, you must exclude the entire Slavic world. And that, frankly, would be absurd. You really think Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev, not to mention Dvorak, Smetana, and Enescu are not a part of western civilization?

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

The ‘old’ parts of Europe, the parts who were in Nato during the Cold War, are also going down the drain. Germany, the Netherlands, France, Italy and, lately having accellerated in a radical leftist direction, Denmark are all also in deep, deep trouble. France could probably blow at any moment.

B125
B125
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Italy was a big redpill. That country is going down the drain rapidly. They had Salvini for a bit who failed completely and got spit out by the system. But it was in Italy that I fully and explicitly realized that Europeans and Africans must be separate. Everywhere you look are Africans, and some Indians/Bengalis. There are still enough Europeans there to maintain some of the nice buildings. Might as well save money and go to Detroit, it also has plenty of nice architecture from a bygone era, and it’s also full of Africans. Once Italy gets fully overrun it… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Italy is a mess but Italians are also the kind of people, how do I say, who can turn on a dime. And Italians are followers. My cousin and I used to laugh but if you are sitting in a cafe somewhere and at the first drop of rain, every umbrella comes out at the same time. And everyone runs to the cover of awnings on the side of the road. You can be in the ocean, and the second the clock strikes noon everyone leaves the water for lunch. It won’t take much to get Italians to follow in… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Italy is still ca. 96% white. No need for blackpilled histrionics.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Everything changes overnight the moment whites decide to make lots of babies and infuse the west with youth and vitality.

In fact our own only goal, and seems to be the path Hungary is taking, should be to give young white people the social and financial support to make lots of babies. Nothing else, really, should matter.

Whatever any of us do should be with a mind to the question “Does it help white people make babies?”

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Whites have a high fertility rate in places like Utah, Idaho, Tennesse, Kansas, North Dakota, etc.

They’re still being replaced there, just a bit slowly. Stronger white fertility is critical but it’s certainly not the only thing we need.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Falcone: Making babies (i.e. White family formation) is facing numerous enormous hurdles. I’m shortly to be a grandma, and my son and his wife are having an extremely difficult time finding a house to rent. And at a rate that is almost double what my husband and I pay for what remains of our mortgage. Almost every house listed is owned, not by a homeowner or small investor who owns 5-10 rental properties, but by a national and/or global corporation. One I investigated yesterday claims to have dozens of national offices – but if you call their purported headquarters in… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

3g4me will be a grandma! Congratulations! Lucky grandkids, although she might be a bit strict with them, for their own good.

Moderate Fanatic
Moderate Fanatic
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

“Does it help white people make babies?”

On its own that’s laudable, but no use if the welcome wagon is still there for non-white migrants. They are born to breed. The goal is to improve the white/non-white ratio. Just supporting white births without stopping the rising tide of aliens is futility squared.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

As 3g lays out well, there comes a point when Chesterton’s Fence needs to be inverted. We know why the fence around our people has been constructed and we also know that it moves closer each night while we sleep. And yet we are convinced, in the same way as the progs know that while they don’t know why the fence was built long ago things must certainly get better if we tear it down, that we must continue as if operating within that shrinking paddock is the only way out of it. The result I see time and again… Read more »

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

“White Bunz–> White Ovens”
Ah, The Chateau is missed (pbuh).

Not My Usual Pen Name
Not My Usual Pen Name
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

F: In fact our own only goal, and seems to be the path Hungary is taking, should be to give young white people the social and financial support to make lots of babies. Nothing else, really, should matter.

Nothing else really DOES matter.

[Well, except stockpiling Sec0nd Am3ndment accoutrements in anticipation of ‘Whatever It Is That’s Coming’, precisely so that we can defend & preserve the lives of those infinitely precious little White babies when ‘Whatever It Is That’s Coming’ finally rears its ugly head.]

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

There are other, rapid ways to increase an ethnic share of the population, that do not require increasing birth rates. [wicked smile]

B125
B125
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Now that I think of it, though, the Scottish / German mixed parts of my extended families are far more “sane” than the pure Anglo side. The Anglo side has been ravaged by leftism, woke-ism, and “trusting the process”. They also have super low fertility. They’re all depressed nut cases living in fear from the China Flu.

This theory doesn’t really scale to Scotland or Germany though, as those countries are pretty screwed up too.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

My actor friend and I used to have a few beers reading YELP reviews aloud. But we were just capturing the mood of the review with all of its over-the-top melodrama. And over the most trivial of things. “OH. MY. GOD. I stopped in with a few friends and ordered a T&T and the bartender thinks he is GOD. Literally oozing with his Godness. HELLO! HELLO!!! You work in a DIVE BAR. Lose the attitude!” That kind of thing. In turn, I have gotten into the habit of reading online reviews for the entertainment value. I was reading reviews for… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

That’s a good point. There is definitely something about the Anglosphere, although the Netherlands, Sweden and Germany are no better. I’m not sure what to think about France. It seems to be a bipolar nation whipsawing between insane AW and a based appreciation of the Muzz and immivaders in general.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
2 years ago

Yes, but it’s the anglosphere the has to be looked at most keenly since it is the backbone of our current iteration of western civilization. Everyone has been deferring to it and counting on it to lead the way. It pains me to say this, but if we are being even more accurate it’s not really the “anglosphere” but really America that’s become the problem. It hasn’t become a problem because of the Anglo people but because of its own strange combination of people and influences. But at the same time, it has long been anglo enough where its fellow… Read more »

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

The problem has been England from the time of the Norman conquest. Which was an foreign conquest and occupation of a native Germanic-Celtic proto nation. From that time on the rulers of England, then Britain were separate from the people and it was easy for them to expand their conception of the country outward to other conquered peoples, the Welsh, French, Irish, Scots, Indians and Africans. From their POV the native English are just tenants and they can and will bring in other tenants as they damned well please. That mentality came to America with the tidewater aristocrats, who went… Read more »

MikeCLT
MikeCLT
Reply to  imbroglio
2 years ago

Typos or not, racialism is the new radicalism.

Jack Charlton
Member
Reply to  imbroglio
2 years ago

If you’re not fighting for power, then you’re not really fighting. You’re posing.

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
2 years ago

Burke himself defended the Glorious Revolution of 1688, actually a radical revolution that set the stage for the French Revolution. The propagandist Locke also must be thrown out.

Wkathman
Wkathman
2 years ago

Several times you say “radial” when I believe you mean radical and “racialism” when I believe you mean radicalism. Sorry to be a nitpicker, but those are key words in your essay. It’s not like missing a “to” or an “an” or having an unnecessary “the.” Your main points still work. Nice piece.

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Wkathman
2 years ago

The bias ply can never hope to stand up to the radial.

B125
B125
Reply to  Wkathman
2 years ago

Agree, typos bother me too.

Nobody is perfect and it’s not like Z has an editor though.

Wkathman
Wkathman
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Z is plenty sharp enough to edit his own content. I feel like a pain in the ass when pointing out these trivial errors. Nevertheless, some typos are worse than others. When key words are misspelled, it can create confusion for the uninitiated. Having read Zman every day for a couple of years now, I always know what he’s trying to say. The same may not be true of every newcomer.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  Wkathman
2 years ago

IMO Z rips it off, doesn’t proof read, and isn’t bothered in the least by typos and such, is disdainful of perfectionist and grammar nazis, and amuses himself by leaving errors in which infuriate them.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  james wilson
2 years ago

Grammatical ZFG!

(“zero f***s given”. It worked for Chaucer.)

bilejones
Member
Reply to  james wilson
2 years ago

It’s a mistake. Like Conservatism, his pieces contain their own self-defeat mechanism. Anything of his that you send to normies is likelty to come back with, “The guy can’t spell ….” as an excuse to avoid the substance of the topic.

Karen not a Karen
Karen not a Karen
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

It’s a similar deal with his mispronunciation of names on the podcast. Makes him sound like a doofus, which he decidedly is not.

Falcone
Falcone
2 years ago

Wonder if this stems from Christianity, at least how it’s been practiced around here If you’re vocal about your faith, then you get praised and elevated by the Christian set. But invariably a black Christian, for example, will hold some or many political and social views that are bad for whites or anti white. But the damage is already done because so many whites have already opened their hearts to this person and let them in. So doing a pivot and reevaluating them is next to impossible and the only way this person gets booted from their world is if… Read more »

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

“My daughter’s husband is a good, patriotic, God fearing Christian who just happens to be black!” Again worshipping the process. They met at church, waited for marriage, and he is one of God’s Children so it’s just fine. The black knows that these whiteys are suckers. He can put on a collared shirt and sit in a pew for 90 minutes every Sunday and get access to white women. The process is whites (or conservatives) getting all huffy and puffy and sentimental over something that doesn’t actually exist at all, while non-whites (or leftists) walk all over them, taking what… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Exactly. And whats worse is that these same defeated and deracinated whites have been conditioned to see the future as predicted by their captors: a brown female. Even in their defiance rituals they can’t resist adopting the moral high ground defined by their supposed enemies by qualifying and sanctifying the retaking of the institutions one day with these colored persons of color and strong independent womyn. We all bleed red, but blaq gay women in transition bleed the reddest.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Yep, you nailed it

Lanky
Lanky
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

“The black knows that these whiteys are suckers. He can put on a collared shirt and sit in a pew for 90 minutes every Sunday and get access to white women.”

Sometimes I ask myself what’s more important: that they hate the right people, or that they’re white?
I know, I know: demography is destiny. But just because we shouldn’t intermingle doesn’t mean we shouldn’t converge.

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
Reply to  Lanky
2 years ago

It’s more important that they hate themselves.

Gunner Q
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

I remember a story in which a church decided to ‘sponsor’ illegal immigrants from deportation because Jeebus loves open borders and post-nationalism… this during the first Bush presidency. One of the first migrants to take advantage of their generosity actually did convert to Christianity, told them off for misusing Christ and forced his way back home to Mexico… they tried to stop him.

I truly hate this modern age of “Come to Jesus, Avoid His people.”

bilejones
Member
Reply to  Gunner Q
2 years ago

The two biggest non-state destroyers of White countries through immigration are the Lutheren and Catholic charities,
fuck them.

bilejones
Member
Reply to  bilejones
2 years ago

Lutheran (touch of the zman there.)

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Gunner Q
2 years ago

One of my bumper stickers says “God protect me from your followers.”

I see the problem exists within the faith as well. 🙁

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

“conservatism is a means justifies the ends ideology. Unlike the Left, the Right will accept less than optimal outcomes as long as they are the result of a just processes.”

These two sentences seem to contradict each other unless you swap the normal definition of means and ends. I.e. that the process, not the outcome, is the ‘ends’ for conservatives. Which, admittedly, may be the point??

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Oh I just realized, you did swap ‘means’ and ‘ends’ lol So yeah, makes sense

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
2 years ago

Z’s “means justify the ends” phrase confused me at first too. I prefer to say that conservatives and classical liberals defend a process, defined in the Constitution and our laws, over a specific outcome. I wonder, “Why not just name the outcome that we want and fight for that?” In defense of Burkean liberals, their approach is more humble. If you believe that most of your countrymen share a common vision of what’s good for the country then they can use the process to decide the best way to achieve this common vision. In the present, different factions have incompatible… Read more »

Wkathman
Wkathman
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

A rather astute summation.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

Line – Damn the ‘process’ and damn the prognosticators. At this point I would be absolutely thrilled with a benevolent dictator. I despise the ‘demos’ just as much as the cloud people. Voting, democracy, rights . . . it’s all a big con. And most people are more than happy to play. Challenge even one corner of one lens of their rose-colored glasses and you get muh magic constitution, muh magic dirt, muh magic Christianity. Through all these things is genetic inheritance (designed by God) made equal.

Not a chance.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Yes. One of the many lies of muh democracy is that of redress. Once the inevitable tyranny seizes the reigns of power – and in modernity that means all information, communication, and social institutions as well, the guardians of the ideals held in the sacred scrolls are impotent to do anything that might actually restore those ideals. They are, however, free to lobby the very machine that exists to make sure their lobby never changes that arrangement. The commoner, meanwhile, is free to register his dissent every couple of years by submitting a new actor to play that role, and… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

” Voting, democracy, rights . . . it’s all a big con.”

I was a little wavering, a little unsure about that November 3. November 4 I was entirely on-board with that. And I’m not even particularly crazy about Trump.

Counter Revolutionary
Counter Revolutionary
2 years ago

The Grand Old Politburo are Long March fellow traveler Chamber Of Commerce rumpswab traitors who must be destroyed.
Trumpstein is a carny barker WWF/WCW wrestling chair holder with no intention of using the chair.
If he was a real revolutionary he would’ve got the JFK/MLK/RFK treatment.
Cuckservatism is just as obsolete as Satanic Marxism unless you intend to burn it all down by any means necessary.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Counter Revolutionary
2 years ago

It’s amazing but it has never failed me. And I don’t mean to be too harsh, but blame God for making this true not me for having heard about it and having observed it.

But it’s the “weak chin”

For a while I was thinking Trump was the only guy with a weak chin who ever had the guts to fight back and keep fighting. But in the end he proved a coward, and the truism held.

Peabody
Peabody
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Trump has very feminine features: too small nose, tiny mouth, no brow ridge, a fat ass and birthing hips. If (some of us) weren’t so desperate for a real leader 6 years ago we’d have realized just by looking at him he wasn’t that person. I watched an old Rick Steves episode on Turkey wherein he visited the huge memorial to the beloved man who brought about the Republic. Take a look at Ataturk. Now there’s a face that can take on a corrupt empire and succeed. Where’s our Mustafa? Instead we get doughy Trump and a botoxed and stretched… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Peabody
2 years ago

and he’s knock kneed, not that that matters but tells me he was never a great athlete like he claims

Yes, so true on the birthing hips

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Peabody
2 years ago

Trump was NOT a ‘savior’. But he might still have been useful to us. I felt so naive once the ‘election’ was over.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Counter Revolutionary
2 years ago

the JFK/MLK/RFK treatment

That’s so 1960s. Simply rig an election and ban him from social media. Added bonus: You get to keep the scary bogeyman around for intermittent beatings to rally the NPCs.

Jumpingjehosiphat
Jumpingjehosiphat
2 years ago

Seriously, we’re here reading about some long-dead thinker when the sitting Governor of New York just suggested a large portion of his citizens be cut off from basic sustenance if they are not vaccinated?

The portent of that act supersedes any need to adjust bowtie and discuss some esoteric “conservative” principals.

When the orders go out to get into the boxcars, will the discussion of the day be boxers or briefs? The correct direction to mount the toilet paper roll (credit Ann Landers)?

KGB
KGB
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

What’s the point in mocking a call to action? At times, the DR reminds me of the strictly finesse hockey or soccer team that always wants to pass the puck (ball) into the net, never intending to execute an incisive strike or display power. Those sorts of teams are very easily boxed out and harried into submission.

It’s the same thought process that leads to the contradiction of “This guy’s a Fed because he wants to do something, while that guy’s a Fed because he’s trying to keep us from doing anything. The safe play is to remain static.”

Jumpingjehosiphat
Jumpingjehosiphat
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

Staying on your case, like Obama and his ilk you “doubled down” on a bad position.

My point – what can a person do if they cannot get food, or other basic sustenance since cutting that off is exactly what the Gov’s words meant, at face value.

Obviously, your clever retort(s) did not age well in light of today’s news. I am not better than you, or anyone here but in my opinion we all have bigger fish to fry than esoteric, Buckley-esque bowtie “conservative” maundering.

Jumpingjehosiphat
Jumpingjehosiphat
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

Obviously I hit a nerve there, you resorting to 3rd grade name calling. Sad, really for you since I have posted a lot here and listened to a fair share of your podcasts. Never threw you a cent though, what fool pays a hooker giving it away? My point was speaking on the utter stupidity of the latest bowtie “conservative” post in the face of much more serious, adult matters going on. I understand your business model is to create content, get “coffee”. Not lost on me. My position is to comment honestly on the articles, as I did. You… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Jumpingjehosiphat
2 years ago

Can’t be “on” 24/7 unless you want to have a heart attack

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Jumpingjehosiphat
2 years ago

Actually, this article does an excellent job of laying an intellectual foundation for eradicating the normie belief that the constitution, institutions and the democratic process will save us. This is step one in a multiple step process. Jumping to step five with no hope of succeeding is counterproductive, which is also well addressed in the article. Given the downward cultural slide dating back to the 1960s, or if you prefer, the 1860s, we are on a tilted battlefield that will get worse before it gets better. It takes a lot of intellectual heavy lifting, e.g. the body of work that… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  DLS
2 years ago

The stormers of the Bastille also tend to spout, “the schools don’t teach ’em How to think, but What!”…yet again, defending the process.

To get to the gates, ya gotta get past the gatekeepers first.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Alzaebo
2 years ago

Unintentionally snarky, I apologise.

Well I understand the frustration- and fear.
Some reach up, some of us are reaching… down. The unsavory offer more practical, er, “results”, but they are damaged, dangerous, and frustratingly slow to cultivate. All the tedium and drama of a PTA meeting, except with knives.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jumpingjehosiphat
2 years ago

Jumping: I share your concern, but if you want some sort of targeted action with a concrete goal, instead of mere mass protests and/or violence, there has to be some understanding of where we are and where we want to go. Most people still revere ‘democracy’ and ‘equality.’ They are, at best, right liberals (late Larry Auster’s term). Zman is trying to educate people that not only are the people corrupt, and the process corrupt, but also the purported aims and ends of the corrupt process are also false and corrupt. As far as the folks living in NY and… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Why 3g4me you will never catch me moving to Texas he he I have too much respect for them and their history to ever plop my California / Florida ass on their turf. Even if I hold similar or the same views, it’s just not worth the effort and the time proving myself. We all have better more important things to do. I flirted with going to westerly VA or eastern Kentucky as well, but the same “proving myself” thing would come into play. For better or for worse, I am stuck in either CA or FL. And will have… Read more »

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Why would you need to prove yourself in TX and what’s wrong with FL? I hope your parents live long and healthy lives.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Falcone: It should go without saying that my crabbiness or stereotyping does not extend to the regulars here at Zman. You ought have no problems ‘fitting in’ in Texas, at least in the cities, because so few native Texans remain in them. Settle wherever feels like home to your heart, and gather your family about you.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

Ditto. We very seriously considered TX, but even though we are heritage stock, they are not me and mine; Texans are their own nation, and someone Exodusing the Left Coast belongs in Texas as much as Costa Rica or Poland..

bilejones
Member
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Dunno why but I always thought you were in Utah or thereabouts.

Dennis Roe
Dennis Roe
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Amen. The fact that every country in the world did the exact same shit, in lockstep, proves they’re irrelevant, paid off and told what to do. This is the endgame, for all the marbles. Live free or fuckin die, If you want micromanaging cunts dictating every aspect of your life, shuffle off in your mask, head down, to get your clot shot, good riddance. The rest of us, eyeballs open, better be ready to put bodies on the floor.

Yak-15
Yak-15
2 years ago

The fundamental basis of our country is complete respect to process as codified by our founders. That is who we are. Process of governance is the only thing the conservatives have been taught to respect from birth. For whitey, its most likely inculcated in the womb. How do you expect to change this conception for the masses of normies? The only way I see it as possible is if the outcomes are so reprehensible and the process so broken, it forces their hands. But, by that time, will it still be possible to win? Is there any other path but… Read more »

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

There WILL be a revolution or something that looks very much like it. This cannot go on, and farsical ‘revelations’ like the UFO stuff, are signs of ppl grabbing for straws. DR should exactly prepare to have a say in where that runaway train will go. IOW totally agree here.

james wilson
james wilson
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

This is key. A dissident does not know how or when the present order will end or how and when revolution will begin. Much less does he seek to start one. 1914 and 1988 are perfectly clear only once they have passed. A dissident builds his understanding of his present, and his past. This gives him focus when the old order crumbles. Balzac wrote that a generation is defined by a group of only four or five thousand people. I believe that to be true among the tiny population of Elizibethan England or of 330 million American mutts. We need… Read more »

Basil Ransom
Basil Ransom
2 years ago

Yes, another added point is what other commentators have stated: Burke was defending an older, more medieval order where people were subjects to a monarch whose role as head of state was rapidly changing even in Burke’s time.

Citizen is a label coming out of the French Revolution, the very event Burke rejected. Since then, it’s only become worse until we are all subjects to the administrative state which cannot be guillotined out of existence with one single stroke. Instead, it has to be eradicated, root and branch, and its acolytes driven out of power.

A tall order…

Pickle Rick
Pickle Rick
Reply to  Basil Ransom
2 years ago

Burke was defending the “Glorious Revolution” of 1688- nothing really old or traditional or medieval about it.

Severian
2 years ago

The Leftists greatest fear — only fear, really — is being cut off from the hive. That’s why “Ok Karen” and NPC kill them. The normie’s greatest fear is being bad – not morally, but as defined by society. In other words, on the same metric as the Left. Which is why I sometimes think we’d get good results by embracing the “bad boy” ethos. Chicks dig it, for one thing. Replace Edmund Burke with Marlon Brando. What are you rebelling against? Whaddaya got?

Basil Ransom
Basil Ransom
Reply to  Severian
2 years ago

Hugo Boss, come back…all is forgiven!

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Severian
2 years ago

That is a great insight. I always assumed the left was trying to follow a version of morality, and just became confused about right and wrong. I didn’t consider that whatever morality the elite left decide on for a given day is the means by which the followers stay attached to the hive, which is the only ends that matter to them. This perfectly explains how lefties can support today that which outraged them yesterday.

Member
Reply to  DLS
2 years ago

The Left has what I call “situational morality”

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Pickle Rick
2 years ago

I suppose the genesis of this situational morality is their embrace of relativism, and the abandonment of traditional morality and religion.

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.” ― G.K. Chesterton

Severian
Reply to  DLS
2 years ago

They only embrace relativism because it lets them pretend that the world bends to their will. If you want to really take the fight to the Left, there’s a tactic — point out that they’re literally children. When adults who aren’t used to kids see toddlers fighting over a toy, they’re baffled. If they have to intervene, they try to reason with the toddlers. “Look, it’s just a toy truck. It’s not worth a total screaming meltdown.” Then they try to suggest compromises: “Tommy can play with it for ten minutes, then Jimmy can play with it. Look, I’ll even… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Pickle Rick
2 years ago

Pickle Rick: So does much of the purported ‘right.’ All those “Christian conservative” parents who oppose abortion and so celebrate their unmarried pregnant daughter and her mulatto child. All those “biblical conservatives” who abhor the LBQT ****** deviancy, until their son comes out as their daughter and they delightedly invite you to share their joy. Because when ‘principles’ meet real life, for most people, principles vanish. Note I am not endorsing this (I am one of the few who would definitely cut my children dead, financially and socially, if they took up with any sort of alien) but I am… Read more »

Pickle Rick
Pickle Rick
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Not everyone is cut out to be Saint Thomas More, who was cut down by Henry VIII. As for organized Christianity today, it’s worse than useless. As Z rightfully noted above, there’s really nothing left to conserve anymore. We will never return to a Christian moral order in the west as a bulwark against the degenerate left and their lapdogs in the churches. I’m not a conservative anymore. I’m a revolutionary in waiting. It’s 1774 or 1859. I’m not going to stick my head in the woodchipper yet. Revolutionary politics is a long game. It took 12 years to go… Read more »

Not My Usual Pen Name
Not My Usual Pen Name
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Saint Thomas More… was cut down by Henry VIII

Thank the Good Lord.

More was a monster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

St Augustine in city of god divides people into four large groups.

The very good
The not very good
The not vey bad
The very bad

With most people clustered in the 2nd and third group. So if you want to grow your church (organization) you need to focus on the second group instead of expelling them as not fit for the first. There’s a lesson in there for the dissident right to take to heart.

Severian
Reply to  DLS
2 years ago

The old school ones actually were, which makes it confusing. What makes it even more confusing is that there’s not just “situational morality” as Pickle Rick describes, it, below, but there are also lots of situational Leftists. See e.g. Hillary Clinton. I know, I know, but look: We all know that as president, she’d have made school prayer, NASCAR attendance, and gun ownership mandatory, and totally outlawed abortion, if she could’ve made more money at it than the opposite. Just as we know Mitch McConnell et al would happily do the opposite of their stated “principles” if he could make… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Severian
2 years ago

I suggest that Hillary is not a moral relativist.

Rather, her guiding morality is to dispossess traditional whites. Resentment seems to be what drives her. I guess that only a huge amount of money could dissuade her from this mission.

(I never heard the Stove quote before. Fun.)

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Severian
2 years ago

Severian: I must disagree. Certainly there are both situational leftists and rightists, but those on the left include far more true believers. Your argument here is too reminiscent of (((Michael Medved’s))) claim that all Hollywood wants is to make money. Despite plenty of evidence that they will happily leave money on the table to push a narrative. Same with t.v. Same with every corner of corporate America. Sure, they love profits, but most of them love their social standing even more. You are suggesting that, if the entire situational paradigm were shifted, those on the left would suddenly be all… Read more »

Severian
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

So, where’s the disagreement? I said “there are lots of situational Leftists.” I offered Hillary Clinton as an example. Others disagree, but… well, there it is. Maybe she is, maybe she isn’t, none of us will ever have the kind of money it would take in order to find out (anyone approaching the Clinton Foundation with anything less than a seven figure check is told “fuck off, Jack, come back when you’ve got a few more zeroes on the end”). I said nothing about the grifters on the right, or the amount of True Believers on the right (but note… Read more »

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

I’m pretty sure that his point is that once it becomes cool to be a racist, a lot of today’s anti racist will rebrand themselves as racists.

Their crowd followers first and foremost. They’ll don whatever belief system their Facebook friends embrace.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Your comments are very insightful and even light up the light bulb for me. I have virtually no contact with mass media except browsing the net. If we had a more rational “free market” info-tainment system, capitalism suggests that we’d have separate networks catering to different markets. Of course to an extent we do. CNN for the libs, Fox for the (relatively) conservative. But it’s as you say: the biggies, those who really control the media, are pushing an ideology. They are selectively censoring the past. They’re in it for something beyond money, which is particularly worrisome because normally money… Read more »

TomA
TomA
2 years ago

Mike Tyson’s famous dictum . . . “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth” . . . is applicable here. At the root, famous conservative mouthpieces are cucks; and as such, are utterly worthless in a world in which reality punches you in the mouth routinely. They can only exist in an affluent society that affords copious leisure time to its deadweight citizens. I assert that Burke’s worldview would be significantly different if he was made to pull a plow for a few years before graduating to erudite commentary. Genocide was a “process” favored by many… Read more »

Gunner Q
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

“Is badmouthing Conservative Inc. really gonna get us anywhere?”

It can get us to “not repeating their mistakes”. We got history in front of us, might as well learn from it. Hey, speak of the devil…

“Methinks you have to take the fight directly to the core of the disease; but do so on terms & timing that most favors success. The goal is to actually succeed, not die bravely.”

Mitch McConnell couldn’t have said it better. Muh Principles! but we must be reasonable about this…

TomA
TomA
Reply to  Gunner Q
2 years ago

There are two primary definitions of the word “fight” as follows:

1). Take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons,

2). Quarrel or argue

I don’t think Mitch McConnell fits either of these; besides which, he’s a politician that primarily uses “talk” as his modus operandi. Did you miss the part where I said that we’re not going to talk our way out of the mess we’re in?

Gunner Q
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

“Did you miss the part where I said that we’re not going to talk our way out of the mess we’re in?”

No, but I did miss where you walk your talk. You want to talk tough, you need to back it up, and that’s where Con Inc. falls apart. It’s never quite time for that cunning masterstroke, now is it?

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

Unfortunately, mockery and bullying are more persuasive that reason for most people.

We can probably never pull Con Inc. snouts out of the trough but mercilessly mocking them persuades their followers to abandon them, as the great meme wars of 2016 showed.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

Line: I doubt the efficacy of any technique en masse, but most people (of any stripe) hate to be laughed at. Pick a Han in a mask today and laugh at her, loudly. Look at a mystery meat at the gym and smirk at him. Accept a pajeet robocall and ask him how honorable and noble he and his caste are for devoting their lives to defrauding old White people halfway across the world (in my experience they don’t even call back). Laugh at them, confront them, humiliate them. And eventually, remove them. All of them. Permanently.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

The optimum course largely depends on your view of the situation. If you believe the state is strong and visionary, them you prepare to violently resist. If you think the state is sclerotic and decaying, you get detangled from it, and stay quiet. Are we dealing with Ivan the Terrible or Nicholas II? Is this malice or incompetence? Malice demands resistance, but incompetence demands withdrawal. If you can’t tell, then wait for more information and reevaluate as it comes.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

Here is the thing re badmouthing conservative, inc.: their patsies and marks are all much more susceptible to logic and facts than normal. You can peel off Hannity supporters with FBI Table 42 stats (or whatever table it is, you know what I mean) because truth still has meaning to their moral framework. You cannot do so with leftists, the narrative is their total moral guide.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  TomA
2 years ago

Recalls Gen. Patton’s famous words (more or less): “The goal isn’t for you to die for your country, but make the other son of a bitch die for his.”

My Comment
Member
2 years ago

Conservatives belief in process as the primary value has also produced some great memes on the constitution like the White kid surrounded by black kids looking at him in a rather menacing way with the caption, “At least we still have the constitution.” The importance of process as the top value and the idea that the most important reason for voting was to keep the court so that the constitution was safe took a rather dramatic nose dive when those three conservative judges so celebrated by Republicans took a pass on the voter fraud. That was a real sucker punch… Read more »

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  My Comment
2 years ago

Yes Z’s succinct “conservatism is the defense of liberal processes against the assaults of the illiberal Left.” might only be enhanced by including the preservation of the ‘institutions’; the literal stones and symbols along with the systems. The fact that they were long ago gutted and are now worn as a skinsuit by those illiberal lefties is ignored for the very situation you cite: we the people must be kept fighting for the idea that it is not a matter of the People, but these buildings and parchments. Otherwise we might get wise to the actual situation at hand. When… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Screwtape
2 years ago

Screwtape: Incisive analysis. I have made it my personal goal to weaken or help destroy anyone’s remaining ‘patriotism’ that I can. Those are people entrapped by and chained to institutions and processes that were long ago weaponized by the enemy. They must be made to let go and destroy the enemy’s stronghold rather than thinking they can somehow ‘retake’ it or ‘restore’ it. Scorched earth.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Totally. I am not winning many friends with this approach but at the same time most know it to be true. There is a lot of habit and momentum to burn off. Those that don’t already know most of this are too far gone. At least for the current year census of non-zombies. The challenge remains, however, to not just purge the false idols, but to then fill the vacuum left behind. Preferably with something other than nihilism. Naturally the bladder should be stuffed with the entrails of our enemy sheeple and some oats, onions, and spices in the form… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Screwtape
2 years ago

Screwtape: I had some actual haggis at a Robert Burns dinner once overseas, and again in Scotland. Not at all bad.

My Comment
Member
Reply to  Screwtape
2 years ago

Screwtape, not only “attachment to these idols that have been weaponized against us” but they kept those institutions intact physically and used conservatives to defend them so that our people couldn’t see that we are a conquered nation and increasingly ruled by foreign leaders. When we were kids many of us played cowboys and Indians. We are still playing that but think we are the cowboys when we are the Indians. Recently I watched Eastwood’s Outlaw Josey Wales. It is set at the end of the Civil War when the Union is mopping up the final resistance. Eastwood is a… Read more »

DLS
DLS
Reply to  My Comment
2 years ago

Those three conservative justices are the death knell of the normie belief system. They were the final thread connecting me to Con Inc. It wasn’t just the vote fraud they passed on. I predict they won’t overturn any liberal precedent no matter how bad the legal underpinning (e.g. Roe v. Wade). Even on a clearly unconstitutional power grab like the CDC arbitrarily overruling contract law between landlords and tenants, the sniveling Kavanaugh refused to intervene as long as they set an end date to the tyranny. As if they won’t repeat it every chance they get.

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  DLS
2 years ago

That was always the rallying cry: gotta get those justices! I mean the only reason people showed up to vote for Romney was the Supreme Court issue. It’s yet another way they ‘screwed the pooch’, not sure how they’ll be able to cook up a rallying cry that has nearly the same amount of force.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
2 years ago

Can’t wait to see the GOP ads extolling Krapanaugh and Amy Homie Barrett as “Great Conservative Justices”

My Comment
Member
Reply to  DLS
2 years ago

The 3 fraud conservative justices did manage to red pill many normies on the fraud of the GOP and vote harder. Now really the only thing the GOP can run on is they don’t hate us as much as the left does and, while they will support many of the let’s victories, they won’t advocate for them as fiercely. Makes me really want to run out and vote

B125
B125
2 years ago

I remember this one time I was with these 55 or 65 year old Boomers, a few years ago. They heard about this guys friend who had just become a Canadian citizen (legally of course). The reaction was surprising. They seemed to well up with pride and they gushed about how wonderful this is. Doing it the right way, this hard working, honest guy is moving to Canada for a better life. They felt good about themselves too. Nevermind that there is absolutely nothing special about what this guy did to get citizenship, he lived here for long enough to… Read more »

Hoagie
Hoagie
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

What you note is absolutely correct. I might add there is some sort of a mental disease rampaging through the Anglosphere from Canada, the USA, Australia, New Zealand and every descendant of England to destroy itself, it’s culture, it’s society, people law, art and every other segment of Western Civilization.

We have gone crazy!

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Hoagie
2 years ago

Maybe the brit diaspora is just reverting to the way the romans found them It was always bound to happen. England carried the torch of civilization admirably for centuries but now seems to have lost and exhausted that infusion of the civilizational spirit and is going back to form The torch has been passed. Seems to be heading toward russia and Hungary, who have also had amazing civilizations in the past and may be returning How life works in the west. I know a lot of people get mad when people talk critically of the English and their people but… Read more »

B125
B125
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

I was in a small white town for a little bit this past weekend. Most people there would have been Anglo, Scottish, or Irish (old stock). The human capital was, to put it mildly, quite low. Everybody is fat or tattooed. Dull looking and slow moving. Poorly dressed. No energy or life. Lots of houses have trash out front or are in disrepair. Only a few businesses in the town. Kind of reminded me of Mexico, minus the cartel stuff. There is no economy here (not even farming) and the lockdowns have killed off most of what little business they… Read more »

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

B125- I’ve noticed similar trends in the small rural communities in my region, though I would say there is some level of productive agricultural output in these parts. Houses are generally in average to above average shape with a fair number of poorly kept ones and a few absolutely immaculate ones here and there. The people are generally fat and tattooed wrecks and there are very few businesses other than convenience stores, dollar stores, and the occasional bar. There are also the occasional joggers and pajeets in these towns. Each of these towns has one or two houses on the… Read more »

Marmion
Marmion
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Part of this is due to the talented leaving their brethren. The move from a rural society to an industrial urban/suburban one, plus the additional destruction of community bonds via feminism and the displacement of female community makers into cubicle-marms, pushed a weakening culture over the edge. Murray was correct in Coming Apart, and the consequences are an Anglo-sphere alienated from itself. In part, we have a formerly liberal culture that fails to see its time is past. Suburban whites still think they are in the era described my Mann in The Magic Mountain, where storytellers “who had visited some… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

It’s not easy admitting one’s personal faults and those of his people. I suppose the difference for “continentals” like myself is that we have been down for so long that we have had the time to take stock of the situation, take our lumps, but try to find a way out of it. Anglos have been up for so long and their downfall is unexpected, puzzling, and even a bit aggravating because people were counting on them. But they have a long road to haul ahead of them if they ever want to return to their former glory. It will… Read more »

Drew
Drew
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Interesting. I was invited to a friend’s rural hometown Sunday, for a church fair. It was in the middle of an agricultural area, near a distillery. Houses and farms were nice, everyone was white and most were fit, except for a single black guy. I drove back to my rural agricultural town and it was just like the small town you described. Fat tattooed people with trashed up yards and houses. The only difference between the two that I could tell was other town was Catholic and mine was Baptist.

Dennis Roe
Dennis Roe
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

I’d rather hang out with them than you, condescending motherfucker.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

You can see conservatives showing creeping awareness of that sort of thing when they wish that future Mexicans in America, lacking Anglo pieties, will take charge and thwart the blacks, or that the states full of German- and Scandinavian- and Scottish-descended whites will secede from the states full of English-descended and Ellis Island whites (approximately).

They don’t say it, but it’s in there somewhere. They just need a few thousand “Eternal Anglo” memes airdropped on them.

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Hemid
2 years ago

I get a sense of that honestly from Vdare, that here is an Anglo, Brimelow, making appeals to all Europeans to join in his crusade as if we’d all be equal partners. Everyone knows — or should — that the moment he gets what he wants that it becomes a purely Anglo-driven enterprise with him assuming Lord-ship status and everyone else his subservients. Not to say I do not respect and admire his efforts, but I can spot his kind from a mile away.

Bryan
Bryan
Reply to  Hemid
2 years ago

On of the most dishonest tropes of Hollywood is the idea of the rough and rugged Celt.

Just try and read up on Scottish or Irish politics before you talk about the eternal Anglo.

And what phrase should we use for Scandinavians? The Swedes will be the first Europeans to become a minority in their own country.

Angarrack
Angarrack
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

I think it’s the selective awareness where you focus on examples of the failings of the English but seem indifferent to the collapse of Italy with its Third World economy and huge African population. You have obviously never visited rural Italy with its dreary abandoned or semi-abandoned towns.Also if you want to talk of dissipation try looking at Scotland or post-white Sweden. And then there’s Greece. England still has creative power which is one of the reasons the continental parasites hated Brexit. The UK won more Nobel prizes for science and mathematics in the last 20 years than the rest… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Angarrack
2 years ago

What you say is preposterous on its face London is a roman city. The English language is filled with Latin rooted words. How did that happen, genius? A good 25% of the words in your comment are from Latin But again, this is the thing not only I have observed about the hardheaded amongst certain English, but pretty much everyone else has taken note The degree of hostility you can gin up for Italians, or French or Germans or whomever stands in stark contrast to the utter lack of hostility for Pakis, now Africans, and whoever else are invading your… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Hoagie
2 years ago

Perhaps “we” have not gone crazy, just that “we” have produced enough “spiteful mutants” to exceed the tipping point in our culture.

Waxing philosophical, perhaps “we” are simply generically “unfit” to survive in a world of economic abundance.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

For Boomers, people wanting to come to their country strokes their ego. It’s like women coming up to them at the bar telling them how awesome they are.

That the woman might just be saying that to get his money never crosses his mind.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
2 years ago

Unfortunately true, a lot of this is a holdover from the Cold War, when defectors to our side were seen as proof of the superiority of our side. Which they were, in a sense. But the Cold War is over, “Our Side” doesn’t really exist anymore, current migrants are not freedom-loving Cubans and Viets, but something else entirely, and its not 1985 anymore. Hey, I’d go back to 1985 America in a flash if I could, but gone is gone.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Altitude Zero
2 years ago

Altitude: “freedom-loving Cubans and Viets” was always a lie, anyhow. Try money and status loving whatevers, who will never be truly American.

B125
B125
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Cuba could really use some freedom-loving Cubans.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

Well, we can argue about the motivations of the Cubans and Viets fleeing communism (I personally wouldn’t have wanted to live under Castro or Ho, and don’t blame them for getting the Hell out, but YMMV), but now there isn’t really even a pretence of anyone seeking freedom – I mean Honduras or Mexico almost certainly has more freedom of speech than does the US, and at least since 1/6, they probably have fewer political prisoners. As for elections, in Mexico AMLO was opposed by the establishment, yet the last time I checked, he was still president, with no one… Read more »

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  3g4me
2 years ago

No migrants ever came to the US for muh freedoms. That’s like saying men go to tittybars for the buffet. Sure, there’s the one homo guy there to support his roommate, but the exception proves the rule.
Altitude is literally repeating the Big Lie of our enemy.

The Greek
The Greek
2 years ago

I’d argue gay marriage is the most obvious example. Gay marriage was actually brought up on the ballot and lost in almost every state it was brought up in. This includes super left California, where it lost only a decade ago. Their cherished black and Latino communities were also strongly against it. Didn’t matter though. They legalized it through the courts (like your abortion example), and now the “conservatives” defend gay marriage as ardently as anyone. It’s not even questioned anymore despite being a losing position 10 years ago.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

Agreed. That woke up a lot of people and still does.

It goes to the heart of the question for people who consider themselves conservatives: Conserve what?

Conserve gay marriage?

Conserve anti-white policies?

Conserve never-ending wars in the Middle East?

Conserve importing millions of new immigrants a year?

Conserve big tech firms lording over you?

Conserve diversity training sessions at work?

Why would any white person want to conserve any of that?

Astralturf
Astralturf
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

As for this word “immoral” I wonder if it’s something you might get in to. I’ve thought a lot about it but it’s really hard to come to a definition of morality without resorting to God. Best I can do is something like, “human behaviors that lead to a optimal outcomes for the individual and society.” But this is superficial and utilitarian and misses a lot. What is the difference between morals and ethics? I had several teachers pose this question but for some reason they never quite answered it. The left loves the concept of morality even though we… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Astralturf
2 years ago

Astralturf correctly observes that “it’s really hard to come to a definition of morality without resorting to God.” As someone who has not yet found God, here is my basis for morality: Most people of a race share instincts about how society should be ordered. That is the basis of morality, although that basis is relative to each race. The first example that occurs to me is why women shouldn’t bear their breasts in public. I acknowledge that this is a different standard for men and women. In a white country, women shouldn’t bear their breasts in public because it… Read more »

Falcone
Falcone
Reply to  Astralturf
2 years ago

There is also a morality borne of nature, and I remember at times of my own personal confusion about the craziness of today that I actually looked to my dogs for clues on how to live. Basically, morality at its core is about reproduction and health. It’s about vitality and a will to live and thrive. Anything that impedes or frustrates that is immoral. And a society like a pyramid has to decide what few integral things go at the top of the pyramid and are promoted as utterly essential. In this case, it’s about doing what it takes to… Read more »

Astralturf
Astralturf
Reply to  Falcone
2 years ago

I really like this answer.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Astralturf
2 years ago

I don’t know that there is a difference between ethics and morality, at least as commonly understood. Maybe there is some formal distinction, but to me they are largely synonyms. As to whether you can have a morality without God, the answer depends upon how you define morality/ethics. If you see it as an imperative (you ought to do this) then it would seem it is not possible without God (an absolute against which to measure what ought to be done). If you define it as practice or custom of a shared group, then you do not need God, just… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Astralturf
2 years ago

You nailed it well in the first paragraph. I’m an unbeliever, as is one of my idols, Nietzsche. Much of his writing questions the foundations of morality and religions. Yet he says this: “I should not, of course, deny — unless I were a fool — that many actions which are called immoral should be avoided and resisted; and in the same way that many which are called moral should be performed and encouraged;…” He would say a morality is most useful precisely when it is “utilitarian.” He wished “these actions should be performed from motives other than those which… Read more »

Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  thezman
2 years ago

God has judged us on this issue. Prepare accordingly.

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
Reply to  Anonymous
2 years ago

As a number of people have mentioned here, the gay marriage issue was a lot more important than it seemed at the time. It’s not just a coincidence that ConInc resistance to the left agenda collapsed at almost the exact same time as the gay marriage sellout. I mean, if you can’t “conserve” a cultural institution that actually pre-dates Christianity, what’s the point of pretending, you might just as well cash the check and become David French…

B125
B125
Reply to  Altitude Zero
2 years ago

It’s part of the primitive religion.

Leftist beliefs are primitive and they are primitives. Living like animals banging everything that walks (male or female), young and old, is the definition of primitive. Long before Christianity civilizations were regulating sexuality to prevent the savagery and disease caused by unchecked sexual urges.

Beta males have the most to lose in this arrangement but they keep pushing for more feminism, liberation.

Rdz
Rdz
Reply to  Anonymous
2 years ago

We have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good an evil. Our punishment in we gain the wold , but lost God.

ArthurinCali
Reply to  The Greek
2 years ago

That has always perplexed me. Gay marriage lost on the ballot in what, 36 out of 38 states? Yet I have supposed acquaintances who were against it then but now state in all seriousness, “well, the Supreme Court ruled that it was legal.”

I want to ask them if the SC ruled child sacrifice to Moloch was legal every Friday would they go along with that too?

B125
B125
Reply to  ArthurinCali
2 years ago

Ironically it was the only time whites and blacks voted on the same side.

I think around 85% voted against homo marriage in Mississippi overall, 100% of blacks and 70% of whites.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  B125
2 years ago

Although I’m far too lazy to investigate it, I find it hard to believe that 38 states have referendum process. Especially in the traditionally conservative states, the mere fact such a question received votes to appear on the ballot, whether by the voters or the legislature, alone speaks of how far into the cesspool we have sunk 🙁

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  ArthurinCali
2 years ago

The thing I like to impress upon them as well is to remind them that the argument starts at “tolerance” and ends in tyranny. The gays just wanted what we all want; what is “normal”. How quickly this led to gays occupying the moral high ground. Now the gays lecture us constantly about what constitutes “normal”, literally marching through the streets – not to celebrate the sanctity of marriage, but all matters of indecency and perversion. And they now hold court with our children and have coopted the institutions to determine what is “normal” while conditioning the next generation toward… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Screwtape
2 years ago

The homo marriage issue was won because the media exploited the desire of white people to be compassionate.

Specifically, the media has convinced us that the most tolerant person in the room is the most correct and white people, due to their unique compassion, have a hard time arguing against that. This is our Achilles heel.

Peabody
Peabody
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

Yes, that is our weak underbelly and the people pulling the strings know it. Imagine what a monster one has to be to take advantage of a people’s innate sense of compassion. That’s what we’re up against.

Screwtape
Screwtape
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

True. The power of the media cannot be over-stated. Yet the majority of people who even see what you do will still give their daughters a smart phone before her first egg drops. The media pounds all matters of inversions and perversions into the moral and spiritual apex under the cover of white tolerance and post-Christian universalism. But at some point it comes down to men simply taking on the burden of being unpopular, even “hateful”. Sure, only God can truly judge, but men have a responsibility to discern right from wrong in favor of ‘get along’. We have abdicated… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

Nothing wrong with compassion. It’s really the extension of compassion to “outgroups” that is fundamentally flawed—and only seems prevalent in Whites these days. Since Whites a couple of hundred years ago or so, colonized and conquered the world, I can only ascribe this phenomenon to recent changes in the population. The more I think about this, the more Woodley’s “spiteful mutants” comes to mind.

Lest ye
Lest ye
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

It weaponized Christian tolerance at a time when people had stopped going to church. It is easy to reduce the ‘lessons’ of Christianity to trite (and implausible) moral stances when you stop reading the original. “Judge not lest ye be judged” stopped being a dictum among many other balancing dicta and was abstracted out beyond its original purpose.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  LineInTheSand
2 years ago

only God can truly judge

. . . what’s in the heart – the rest of us can judge actions pretty well.

Dinothedoxie
Dinothedoxie
Reply to  Screwtape
2 years ago

Lest ye

The original dictum was you will be judged as you judge others which is quite a bit different than the popularized version of Judge not, lest ye be judged.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  ArthurinCali
2 years ago

Spoiler alert – yes they would.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  ArthurinCali
2 years ago

Arthur: At this point, yes, they would. And they’d snitch on you for not complying to get extra points for themselves.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  ArthurinCali
2 years ago

One of the few times I agreed with something ascribed to Lincoln: If the Supreme Court ruled a dog was a cat, it would still be a dog.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  c matt
2 years ago

Here’s a popular Lincoln “quote”:

https://images.app.goo.gl/UD2nnySEApVuUwWDA

Altitude Zero
Altitude Zero
2 years ago

Yeah, Burkean conservatism, or “conservatism” of any kind, really only works when there is still a pre-revolutionary order to defend, which we do not really have, which conservatives will not recognize. I think that one of the reasons for this is denial. Just as lots of Boomers do not want to admit that they are no longer “youth”, many conservatives have a very hard time admitting that the magnitude of their defeat over the last twenty-five years. Admitting that there is really nothing left to defend, that we are the revolutionaries (or reactionaries, if you prefer) now, is the first… Read more »