I mentioned in a previous episode that I might do a show on the Social Gospel Movement so I thought it would be a good topic to start the fall season. When I sat down to put the show together it occurred to me that there was another way to talk about the topic other than describing the people and ideas. After all, the only reason to care about this is for how it still casts a shadow over the present day.
Instead of doing a history type show I went in another direction. One of things that is striking when you read about the Social Gospel Movement is just how much of their language is with us today. In the show I point out that if you remove the references to God and Scripture, these people would sound like our current scolds. They would be demanding Musk ban me from Twitter.
That is one point of the show for those who will not listen. The present lunacy we are experiencing is not due to some bug in the system or the work of alien outsiders exploiting our kindness. The modern Social Justice Warrior is a uniquely American thing, the full flowering of part of the American character. That blue haired crazy at the office is more American than anyone in the dissident right.
That is not an easy thing for people to accept because it means the problem is far different from what is comfortable. It means there is no simple answer. We do not just have to win an election and then ban CRT in the schools. We do not just have to get back to our constitutional principles. Those simple answers are not answers, but ways to avoid looking at the real problem, which is in the mirror.
For sites like this to exist, it requires people like you chipping in a few bucks a month to keep the lights on and the people fed. Five bucks a month is not a lot to ask. If you don’t want to commit to a subscription, make a one time donation via crypto. Or, you can send money to: Z Media LLC P.O. Box 432 Cockeysville, MD 21030-0432. You can also use PayPal to send a few bucks. Thank you for your support!
Promotions: Good Svffer is an online retailer partnering with several prolific content creators on the Dissident Right, both designing and producing a variety of merchandise including shirts, posters, and books. If you are looking for a way to let the world know you are one of us without letting the world know you are one one is us, then you should but a shirt with the Lagos Trading Company logo.
The Pepper Cave produces exotic peppers, pepper seeds and plants, hot sauce and seasonings. Their spice infused salts are a great add to the chili head spice armory, so if you are a griller, take you spice business to one of our guys.
Above Time Coffee Roasters are a small, dissident friendly company that roasts its own coffee and ships all over the country. They actually roast the beans themselves based on their own secret coffee magic. If you like coffee, buy it from these folks as they are great people who deserve your support.
Havamal Soap Works is the maker of natural, handmade soap and bath products. If you are looking to reduce the volume of man-made chemicals in your life, all-natural personal products are a good start.
Minter & Richter Designs makes high-quality, hand-made by one guy in Boston, titanium wedding rings for men and women and they are now offering readers a fifteen percent discount on purchases if you use this link. If you are headed to Boston, they are also offering my readers 20% off their 5-star rated Airbnb. Just email them directly to book at sales@minterandrichterdesigns.com.
This Week’s Show
Contents
- The State of Things
- The Debate About How We Got Here
- The Blame Game
- American Identity
- Social Gospel Movement
- In Practice
- Legacy
- The Problems
Direct Download, The iTunes, Google Play, iHeart Radio, RSS Feed
Full Show On Spreaker
Full Show On Rumble
Full Show On Odysee
I appreciate that Z Man acknowledges that recent news favors those of us who focus on the primacy of the chosen in explaining our difficulties. I would just like to point out that many of us acknowledge that white progressives are a problem as well. Certainly, there is a subset of whites that we must always reject.
Tell me guys, including Z Man and Ramzpaul: If the chosen control the media, and brainwash our people, then how are we ever going to make progress?
How are you ever going to convince all those non-whites that deep down they are race-blind?
This is the wrong time in history to think about making progress. This is a time to think about surviving and staying in the game. Maybe we will have to wait for the grid to fail and to plunge us back into a pre-industrial age. The important thing is to still be here as a people when it happens (not that I am in a hurry).
The big problem right now is the lack of a well defined social identity. American is no longer synonymous with North Europeans or even with Caucasoid, and as a biological category, white means different things to different white people — and most liberal whites admit these days to hating their race (even if they think it really doesn’t exist).
We need a word for “white Americans who want to survive as a race.” Right now that word is merely a six letter epithet. If someone does come up with an adequate word, it will describe at least 5% of the white population, maybe a little more. We don’t have vast numbers or vast wealth or the respect of our fellow white Americans, so we are not a force to be reckoned with politically.
If we could separate ourselves culturally and perhaps geographically to some extent from the rest of white America (sort of how the traditionalist Jews in NY separate themselves from the other Jews), then we would have a chance to stick around. Right now, most white people in the US and Western Europe simply don’t care whether they disappear (sometimes they are asked), as long as it is slow and painless.
I have not totally given up on white people though. There are still the Amish, the Hutteries, the Mormon polygamous sects, the Laestadians in Finland, some Exclusive Brethren communities in Britain and Australia, and the Full Quiver movement (think the Duggers) may yet make a successful transition to the “endogamous growth sect” model. Collectively, these groups have a good chance to eventually replace the replacers (although they will still have to contend with the highly fertile Haredim). Even a low rate of compound growth can turn a small population into a contender faster than one would intuitively expect.
Historically, there have been a number of ethnic populations who had lost control of their fate politically, but were preserved by their religion. Many peoples from antiquity have completely disappeared but survive only as names in our history books and in some cases our Bibles, but there are other groups that are still around, like the Jews, the Assyrians, even the Samaritans and Zoroastrians/Parsis. We should learn from history’s survivors.
I listened to the whole thing. There are some very good points made and it does come down to “who says that is the way things should be and where is it written?”
The battle line does indeed seem to be drawn between those people who wish to be left alone and the people who refuse to leave others alone.
Experience shows that the number of people who are willing to leave others alone is very small and is almost all white men. Due to this fact, you have no choice, for the foreseeable future, but to join a tribe.
Libertarianism, if it can exist at all, can only exist in an almost all white community. That’s reality. Further, such a community would have to forever be exiling those who realize that they want government services or who want the government to act in support of their racial/sexual/religious group.
Me? I’d rather live with my tribe and have the government’s explicit goal to be the flourishing of my tribe.
My quibble here is that the Social Gospel was never very popular among elites. They were happy to exploit it for political purposes, but it was quickly taken over by secular progressivism, as Z points out. Prohibition was its last gasp, and the New Dealers got rid of it as quickly as they could. Marxism preceded the Social Gospel and Leninism succeeded it. It’s chief importance is transitory, in that it moved American Puritanism decisively left.
Good observation about the history, but American Puritanism from the outset was leftwing. It always was going to destroy society and the bill has come due.
I think it’s difficult to place Puritans (or others) on the modern political spectrum before late 19th Century Industrialization. Most Puritans (or their descendants) opposed the French Revolution. There was actually more sympathy for it in the South. You could cite Abolition, but I would argue that divide was more sectarian and sectional than ideological. Clearly though, the Abolitionist example influenced and inspired the Social Gospel.
To the extent that many Puritans were influenced by Locke and other Enlightenment philosophers, I grant your point, if you want to equate liberal with left.
Puritanism? The Puritans would have anathematized them–or worse! The social gospelers turned their congregations into mere social clubs that were full of infidels. That was why a new break away movement was started in the 1920s, at first among the Presbyterians but it quickly spread, which called itself “Fundamentalism.”
At any rate, the old “mainline” sects are dying out faster than ever now. The turn away from religion we hear so much about in recent years is mainly these liberals and moderates completing their apostasy. Those who cheer this development don’t stop to think that the hard core that is left is likely to turn inward and become much more hardline over time, and probably more fertile at the same time. Liberals will create what they fear.
It’s all about limits. Without limits, good ideas become a tyranny, the needed reaction becomes the opposite tyranny. Ideas can’t recognize limits, or they lose their authority. There has to be an answer. What, precisely, is the golden mean? Where do you stop, and why?
It comes down to faith, loss of religion imo. No moral authority, as Z notes. Jews can’t practice their religion. No temple, no priests, only rabbis— teachers. Puritans love education, education erodes faith because ideas demand answers. No room for mystery, no patience, no humility. No identity, either— missing something. Jews ain’t Hebrews, and Unitarians ain’t Puritans. They aren’t themselves, and they aren’t the only ones btw. Act like you’ve still got it, you’re wearing a skinsuit. You’re a lie.
No satisfactory answer, of course. The answer is there is no answer, so stop lying. Basically saying No, imposing (will!) morality. That goes over well lol. But at some point it has to go over!
“Unitarians ain’t Puritans.” — Unitarians aren’t even Christians, as Unitarians themselves admit these days.
Good episode!
Here’s one for you: How would you explain the increasing tendency among Woke Lefties to see relationships with significant age gaps as being somehow immoral? A younger female acquaintance of mine who is very woke was going off about this earlier today, and I’ve seen it elsewhere. (I have no dog in this fight BTW, since I’m in my late 40s and happily married to a woman my age; I just find it a curious development.)
I guess I can understand how one could parse these relationships as “oppressive” or “exploitative” in the case of VERY large age gaps, such as men my age (or older!) continuing to date girls in their 20s; these kinds of arrangements have always raised eyebrows, though they can also raise the question of who is exploiting whom.
But wokies are increasingly getting agitated over much smaller age gaps, like only a decade or so. In fact, I first encountered the term “grooming” being used by wokies to describe guys in their late 20s-early 30s still dating girls in their teens/early 20s (this was a couple of years before conservatives began using the term). And believe it or not, this isn’t primarily driven by sour grapes from older women. From what I’ve seen, it’s generally the younger women who are driving this; the older women are often the ones telling the younger women to stop being such prudes, only to get called out as “rape apologists” or whatever.
I can’t figure out why people who are so comfortable with all other kinds of sexual degeneracy are becoming so hypermoralistic over this.
Mr Blank: “Woke Lefties… see relationships with significant age gaps as being somehow immoral… A younger female acquaintance of mine who is very woke was going off about this earlier today…”
===============
A coupla days ago, Surbuban_Elk was drawing attention to a very ugly thread at /pol/:
4chan
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/440633213
4plebs archive
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/440633213
It was one of those inter-generational warfare threads, with Zoomers & Boomers & Millennials & Xers all at one-anothers’ throats. [There might have even been a couple of Silents.]
I read the entire dadgum thang – 360 frigging replies – and I came away from it with the very strong sense that what I was witnessing was wholly inorganic & artificial.
It was as though the entire psychological fabric of the dissident Anglosphere were being ripped apart, and the Anglosphere were being infected with a meta-schizophrenia which precluded any sort of cogent discourse, and instead emotionally sober conversations were being replaced by short-tempered petulance & spite & seething grievances.
And none of it felt natural to me – that an entire body politic could turn on itself [suicidally] like that – and I quickly came to suspect that the entire spectacle was one giant Psy-Op designed to set the various generations of the goyische host nation at one anothers’ throats [as yet another means by which to destroy the host nation].
Over at PA World & Times, we got to wondering whether there might have been historical precedents to this most recent outburst of inter-generational animus, and we came up with a few candidate phenomena:
1960s: Hippies
1950s: Beatniks
1920s: Flapper Girls
And even earlier than that…
1850s: Uncle Tom’s Cabin
1790s: William Wordworth’s “Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, But to be young was very heaven!”
cf MARX, ENGELS, AND THE ABOLITION OF THE FAMILY
https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/History/Faculty/Weikart/Marx-Engels-and-the-Abolition-of-the-Family.pdf
Do you suppose, for centuries now, the hand-rubbing happy-merchants could have been deploying inter-generational warfare [“IGW”], as a means by which to weaken & cripple & overthrow an host nation?
Perhaps they’ve been perfecting the technique for millennia?
===============
ANYWAY, getting back to Mr Blank:
“Woke Lefties… see relationships with significant age gaps as being somehow immoral… A younger female acquaintance of mine who is very woke was going off about this earlier today…”
Nobody but nobody but nobody is on the cutting edge of the very most recent & hot-off-the-presses Frankfurt School Psychological Warfare Campaigns quite like “Woke White Females”.
And Mr Blank’s observation would very strongly jibe with a broader societal psy-op designed to convince White females to remain childless even when in the presence of perfectly good White husband material.
It certainly would be in complete agreement with the so-called Protocols of the Elders [i.e. the destruction of the Total Fertility Rate of the host nation].
===============
PRO-TIP: When dealing with these woke bishes, always AGREE & AMPLIFY!!!!!
20s-ish Bish: OMG, you’re so creepy!!!
40s-ish Chad: Baby, I ain’t creepy, I’m terrifying.
It’s all just one giant meta-sociological sh!t-test, and the Bish’s hindbrain is looking for one and only one attribute in your psychological profile, which attribute is called, “STONE COLD KILLA”.
You show her a quick flash of STONE COLD KILLA, and her nether regions will become flush with moisture.
You will OWN her.
Just don’t ever let her see any Beta in you.
Maintain the Frame.
STONE. COLD. KILLA.
One of the very best podcasts Zman has done.
Just finished some online lectures on early modern British history, and the roots of this are evident there. The whole course was good, but the ones that focus on the religious wars and the revolutions start here. (Course is over a decade old, and the lecturer fairly senior, so even though he’s probably a Labour guy, he plays it pretty straight.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh-F7Xtc8Wg
This is one of your best and most insightful episodes. However, simply exposing the the hollow disconnect and lack of authority of the social justice movement isn’t going to bring about its destruction. What to replace it with? Rand’s answer was reason and the rejection of altruism in any form. In order to make that work she conveniently left out the basic human need of family and the natural altruistic impulses it engenders. Downstream from that is the whole makeup of society including friendships and collective organizations outside of government.
Alisa Rosenbaum gave you yhe alternative of satanic individualism in america if you didnt care for the satanic collectivism of her cousins then rampaging through russia.
The Spergs can’t understand that there is no difference whatsoever between Alisa Rosenbaum and Rosa Luxemburg.
Rosenbaum seeks to corrupt and destroy the host nation from the ostensible political right, whereas Luxemburg seeks to corrupt and destroy the host nation from the ostensible political left.
The native Spergs [of the host nation] get all caught up in the “Right” versus “Left” nonsense [“Look, Squirrel!!!”], and fail to observe that the entire nation [both “Left” and “Right”] has been corrupted and destroyed in the meantime.
They’ve been perfecting this routine for MILLENNIA.
Someone’s been watching molyneux.
You overlook one major difference: you can fight back against the Rosenbaums, but not against the Luxemburgs. The Luxemburgs will just shoot you, or maybe torture you first.
I seem to recall that the White Russians did quite a bit of fighting back…
I didn’t listen to this week’s show, but I’ll press a point. I’ll build upon Z’s closing remark that the problem is in the mirror. Very much so, but I’ll argue from a different perspective.
In everyday physical terms, a mirror is a useful tool. It lets us view ourselves. The image is reversed. When you’re brushing your hair or applying makeup, that’s no problem. But now let’s get metaphorical. Then the mirror is not only showing you reality, but in fact a 180 degree inversion of reality. As an analogy this only goes so far. When we enter the wild wooly world of the human mind, that “image” might be anywhere from zero to 359 degrees out of whack.
Many shortcomings of commonly-held perceptions, opinions, customs, morals, and even laws, can be explained by understanding that what they ask or demand is simply at odds with how the real world is — or even what it could offer under the most wildly optimistic scenario.
Sometimes we’d love for 2 + 2 = 5 to be true, but the laws of mathematics tell us otherwise. And it turns out that the sum will remain 4, no matter how much we dilute the mathematics curriculum in the name of equality or some other noble ideal, or hire panels of experts to declare that the answer is “5”, or fire dissident mathematicians or herd them into boxcars enroute to the labor camps.
The modern Social Justice Warrior is a uniquely American thing, the full flowering of part of the American character. That blue haired crazy at the office is more American than anyone in the dissident right.
The blackest pill for me was the realization that America has been a liberal state from its inception. All of the insanity that we’ve experienced up to today, and whatever follows was literally baked into the cake. There hasn’t been any deviation from the founder’s perfection. Instead they set it all in motion.
“Yanky Doodle Dandy” is basically an 18th century term for “dressing all emo and talking like a fag,” so it was noticed all the way back then.
Not only noticed, it was actually owned by the rebels. Is it too grating to notice that the Founding Fathers were actually the Antifa of their day? That’s a very black pill for most people, but it’s something we muct shift the Overton Window about.
“Is it too grating to notice that the Founding Fathers were actually the Antifa of their day”
That’s silliness, Gutenberg wasnt the Mark Zuckerberg of his day Mozart wasnt the Taylor Beyonce of his day, Luther wasnt the trans lesbian unitarian of his day.
For someone prone to verbosity not much reason to elide basically every possible relevant difference to make a pithy one sentence response
Seconded. There is no need to go overboard. While the seeds of its eventual destruction certainly were present at the outset, the American Republic and even its Founders were a wildly disparate group despite their shared race and ethnicity. Much good such as prosperity also flowed from the revolution, but the poison pill always was at ready to transform the republic into the despotic imperial police state it is now.
Adams was not Robespierre. He was a Church Lady, though, and once his faction had the upper hand it was just a matter of time before his fellow missionaries were mutilating the genitals of children, which in some ways is the equivalent of a guillotine although one that was a logical consequence rather than a stated goal.
NoOneAtAll: “That’s silliness, Gutenberg wasnt the Mark Zuckerberg of his day Mozart wasnt the Taylor Beyonce of his day, Luther wasnt the trans lesbian unitarian of his day.”
==========
For the last several years, I’ve spent a great deal of time wondering what the genealogy of sh!tlibbery would look like.
For instance, if you were to make some great big genealogical charts of all the officers [maybe major through general] in the “North” during the Amurrikkkun Civil War, and see what their descendants were up to these days [genealogically, in the current year, on the order of great-great-great-great-grandchildren], then what would those descendants be doing?
Would they be designing diesel engines & computer chips & nukular reactors?
Or would they be prominent in the 501C3s & the rainbow coalitions & the hedge funds & of course the Deep State?
==========
Regarding Mozart himself, apparently there is a treasure trove of extant letters written back and forth between Mozart & his sister wherein a bizarre obsession with “scat” is to be found.
[And we’re not talking “scat” music; we’re talking human excrement.]
==========
Kinda off-topic, but our local mega-evangelical “Bible Church” is run by a secret coven of OTDL s0d0mites, all posing as ostensible “Christian” gentlemen.
On paper, they’re rock-ribbed politically dark-red GOP types.
I don’t even know whether their wives are aware of it.
And I certainly don’t have the heart to break it to any of the poor st00pid women.
“whatever follows was literally baked into the cake. There hasn’t been any deviation from the founder’s perfection.”
This is overstating it. There was a racialist movement, there was an attempt to repatriate the Africans, Ben Franklin really did worry that the Germans might not assimilate and mistakenly thought the Swedes were too “swarthy” to absorb. The founders were liberals, but they were not hopeless.
Even after the War Between the States and Reconstruction, there was an attempt to swing things back the other way. Jim Crow laws in the 1890s which disempowered the Africans politically, a borderline fascist patriotic movement that gave us the Pledge of Allegiance and the “Roman” salute (until WW2), the birth of racialist science, the attempt (by northerners) to relegitimize and reincorporate the South into the nation, the new KKK which for awhile seemed to function as a popular and somewhat respected reform organization of real potential with its center of gravity in the Middle West, the audaciously visionary and ambitious eugenics movement, the rejection of the League of Nations and public regret we had ever gotten involved in WW1, and (over fervent Jewish opposition) the termination of almost all immigration in 1925. For a while, there seemed to be hope. The good guys seemed to be winning.
Perhaps it was hopeless all along to push the big boulder of egalitarian dogma up the mountainside, but at the time that was not obvious, and I still think history could have gone a different way. But after WW2, it was too late. The balance of power had shifted decisively.
galtonwasright: “…the rejection of the League of Nations and public regret we had ever gotten involved in WW1, and (over fervent Jewish opposition) the termination of almost all immigration in 1925. For a while, there seemed to be hope. The good guys seemed to be winning…”
Then David Sarnoff destroyed Philo Farnsworth, the j00z seized control of the Ta1mudvision industry, and the rest is history.
Similar phenomena were also at work in Hollywood [albeit a decade or two earlier]; somehow Thomas Edison et al got pushed out of the industry of their own invention, but even as late as the 1930s, White Amurrikkkuns such as Merian C. Cooper and Ernest B. Schoedsack were still able to finance & film & distribute their own movies, such as “King Kong” in 1933 [at the height of the Great Depression].
The pioneers take the arrows, and the settlers take the profits.
In the Me Decade, Tom Wolfe said that the New Left was the third great religious awakening in America.
White Americans really do have a need, more than any other group anywhere, to be true believers in something. Strip away God and you get Mother Gaia and politics as being the way for people to show devotion and Godliness, punish sinners and reach paradise.
Females are the majority of parishioners of churches and the majority of the SJW. There is no group on the planet who loves, as much as uni educated white women, the idea of forcing a hysteria on others.
Having a good general understanding of American history, I am always amazed and dismayed by the young Dissident Right’s view that America was some type of utopia before the hated Boomers and once Boomers die off paradise is again within their grasp. That idea that paradise is waiting for you if you only banish the devil from your life is very American.
It is a bitter pill to swallow, but the United States always has suffered from some form of social justice warriorism. It is easy to blame Boomers, Jews, whatever, but the problem people from the start remain the problem people today and they obviously do not fit any easy categories. While the cancer mostly remains in New England in particular and the Northeast in general, it has metastasized to the other parts of the nation. While moving to other regions of the country is a laudable goal, people who have this disease need to be marginalized at a minimum whether they be missionaries or part of the original malignancy. Eliminate or neutralize this group and their foot soldiers become eunuchs.
And even in solid red states you find that the educational system is heavily staffed by loons. The same people control the entertainment industry and social media and heavily populate the courts as in blue states.
Just as true believers wage an unending war against non believers, non believers must wage a non ending war against the true believers.
It is beyond the ability of any of us to fundamentally change the culture especially now that it is matriarchal.
Not at all. The wildest part is the cultural part is the easiest to challenge. That is why the Cult-Marx and PoMo lose sleep at night. Dumping illegals into Blue shitholes is far more a cultural than a political message, and look at the results!*
*For full disclosure, I saw this as the usual empty cucking, which it likely was initially, but, man.
Perhaps I misunderstand your “cuck” remark. As to the example of the sending of illegals (or, at least, irregular immigrants) from Red to Blue states, I agree that it doesn’t solve the underlying problems. But in my opinion, it’s a master stroke of politics: Red governors are essentially putting the problem on the Blue, saying “You claim to love these people, so here’s another bus load.”
@Ben:
I think it was initially a stunt disguised as forceful action, the usual cuckery, but it turned into a master political stroke. Maybe it wasn’t a wonderful accident, but based on typical Republican behavior that’s not the way to bet.
“Just as true believers wage an unending war against non believers, non believers must wage a non ending war against the true believers.”
This is the wrong way to think. Saul Alinsky was right: you have to seize the moral high ground in the war of ideas, and you don’t do this by positioning yourself as the infidel, the bad guy, the “dark”enlightenment. You have to put on the white hat, become the hero in the shining armor, the slayer of leftist dragons. We have to stand for something that, while it may not be universally welcomed, is at least positive in its on way. Don’t frame the debate to the other side’s liking.
This is why I would champion Freedom of Association, and frame everything Leftists stand for as anti-FoA.
Everybody says that these days, but it isn’t quite accurate. If God were believed in after the same manner as the Leftists believe in their politics, that would not be God and their politics would not be religion. It would be a self-serving cult of the ego, which is exactly what it is now. Religion does not want or need that kind of perversity.
The problem with insisting that Leftism is a religion is that you end up entailing that religion is, like Leftism, an entirely temporal affair rooted in earthly selves and earthly ends, which it isn’t.
In the United States it was never intended for a man in a free country to have the right to do anything he liked; rather, social duties were imposed upon him more various than anywhere else. Where you see in France the government and in England a noble lord at the head of a great new initiative, in the United States you can count on finding an association–Tocqueville
Every day you will meet a delegation going to some convention to try and change the way of somebody else’s life–Will Rogers
In that bygone era women did not vote. Yet they had profound influence upon men just as they depended on them more closely. The Franchise has changed that. The increasing result of odious women and weak men is natural to it.
Tocquevilles abhorrence not of democracy but of universal suffrage was applied before women were even a consideration. When all men could vote without restriction to debt or public burden, then democracy would see the rise of the most cunning and ruthless to the levers of power. With women on board they no longer even have to qualify as cunning as we see with biological males running over women in sports. Fear has replaced cunning.
The Jewish side of the elite is still a bigger problem as they want to permanently install themselves as a parasitic aristocracy. Wherever they get control they rapidly establish a caste system that enforces them as the overclass, and prove themselves to be vicious butchers when dealing with those over whom they rule.
At least the social justice nutcases still view you as a human being, albeit one with naughty ideas that need to be corrected.
The New England Puritans. religious or secular, are the problem. Eliminate or marginalize them and the Jews, Boomercons, vibrants, whatever, do not matter. Z is right there. We basically have a malignant minority that formalized its control in 1865 and has been destroying humanity in general and the West in particular ever since.
Jewish Malfeasance towards Europeans predates the Puritans by several centuries. Not saying Puritans and Abolitionists weren’t nosy busybodies but that tribal instinct for fuckery has been honed to a fine edge before Puritans even existed. 109 countries over more than a millennium but I’m sure they dindu nuffin to cause the expellation.
Nearly two centuries before the first Jew slithered across North America, Puritans were harassing, antagonizing and terrorizing Anglicans and Catholics because of course they did.
You can’t eliminate Puritanism, that impulse is embedded in the genes of Northern Europeans. If you took those genes away we’d just be round-eyed Chinamen throwing garbage everywhere whenever we think we can get away with it.
The impulse to control others has been kept in check throughout Western history, though. You may be correct that it cannot be eradicated and is encoded in our DNA, but it certainly can be marginalized and has been throughout our history.
Getting dangerously close to lolbertarianism here… when no control is exercised over a people (read: there is no moral leadership) you end up with hell or possibly even san francisco
@No:
Your point is taken (and I agree with the sentiment), but order also can give way to totalitarianism, which really is the logical endpoint of SJWarrioring, whether Woke or not. The chasm between order/authoritarianism and totalitarianism is vast.
Having now listened to the episode—which was well done, as usual—I was struck by something Zman said about the Social Gospel movement and its relation to the doctrine of the Second Coming. As I understood Zman’s description, the Social Gospel arose in part out of a desire to *perfect* the world, in preparation for (or to usher in) the Second Coming of Christ, and the establishment of God’s kingdom in earth.
Now, traditional Christianity is pretty unambiguous about the conditions that will precede Christ’s return: It’s a complete *collapse* of the moral structure of human society. Not only is this the vivid subject of the New Testament’s final book, but Jesus himself gives us truly terrifying visions of the End Time.
OTOH, the Messianic strain in Judaism seems to have a different view. The rabbinic teaching (as I understand it) is that the Messiah will come in a generation that is either wholly wicked OR wholly virtuous. This leaves open the possibility that human action to “perfect” society can effectively usher in the Messianic kingdom. You can see how this utopian version of the Messianic idea can lead you to the Social Gospel (and its orphaned offspring Social Justice), more so than the ideas espoused in Revelation, where a dystopian “final reckoning” is inevitable, and un-avertable.
I know that some have called American Puritanism a kind of “Judaized” Christianity, and perhaps that’s where the “optimistic” conception of the Second Coming (the one Zman described as the root of the Social Gospel) originated. But I’m sure there are people on here who know more than I do about this subject, and could comment and clarify.
The optimistic version you refer to is called Postmillennialism. It came in with the Second Great Awakening if my sources are correct. Until then, Christianity had been uniformly Amillennial except for 8 or 9 early Chiliasts (Premillennialists) until their view was anathematized at the Second Ecumenical Council (as part of a broader condemnation of the heretic Apollinarius). Postmillennialism could have been construed in an orthodox way, but instead it took a utopian turn which was gradually secularized. The social gospelers in America and the Fabian Marxists in Britain finally converged into a single stream.
Thanks for that information Galton.
« « « That blue haired crazy at the office is more American than anyone in the dissident right.
That is not an easy thing for people to accept because it means the problem is far different from what is comfortable. It means there is no simple answer. We do not just have to win an election and then ban CRT in the schools. We do not just have to get back to our constitutional principles. Those simple answers are not answers, but ways to avoid looking at the real problem, which is in the mirror.»»»
*****
That’s an important point. The problem is far deep and worse than “evil leftist”. White peoples are in decay, decline, choose the most accurate word).
How many Trumpsters are fat, tattooed and illiterate in the way they know nothing in history? How many think than suburbia is a great idea for the community or the architecture?
How many of us don’t do solidarity acts in our lifes? You know, that thing we use to accuse the Jews to do for their pals?
IMO, this is related to dechristianisation and to democracy (it can work but only with few, cultivated and honest people, so no, “founding fathers” are not heroes).
IMO 2 : I have no idea how resolve this dechristianisation. TBH, I think we will continue to fail and to be tired of losing. God will punish us.
(this is just an intuitive thought, I admit I don’t have solid argues for it. But still…)
The prime movers may be solving it for us as they take their never-ending evil toward nuclear war.
IMO dechristianization is only part of the issue (a very important one but still only one)
The most fundamental problem is modernity itself.
About 150 years ago, with the widespread adoption of coal driven steam power, followed by petroleum and then electrification; the amount of energy available to individual humans increased by an order of magnitude, then did so again and then did so again.
For the last ~50 years everyone in a modern society has 1,000 time the power at their fingertips as did the most powerful person ever up to a few centuries ago. That is an entirely novel situation that god or evolution did not intend for men.
That power and it’s rapid arrival has led men to believe that they are god (collectively) and gods individually. Its led to the collapse in belief in any divinity. Who need god now? It has led to extreme atomization – all across the modern world people isolate themselves. And it has led to extreme delusion – everyone denies reality at some level – and the available power lets them do so for very long periods of time.
I see this ending only in one of two ways.
1) Either the peak oil people are correct. At which point the energy available for human exploitation will return to a level ca 1850.
2) Or we will face a complete collapse of civilization. And not one like the Roman Empire falling, or even the Bronze Age collapse. But one at a level of Graham Hancock’s theorizing.
Just for grins, I asked Google what world population was in recent centuries. I know it’s grown a lot since 19th century. Still I was surpriised. If the figures are correct, then as recedntly as the mid-18th century, when the USA was “born,” world population stood at about one tenth the present figure. Yes, we didn’t crack a billion until the early 19th.
Implication: a loss of our industrial technology would probalby entail a population cull back to that number.
Conventional oil hit the plateau circa 2005. It fell off the plateau in Nov 2018, taking total oil production (conventional plus unconventional) with it. A weak global economy (China is in collapse, Germany in recession) can hide it for a while.
World coal production will peak in the 2030s (US too), U235 between now and 2035, and global nat gas probably 2040, US gas maybe sooner. Yeah, I know, we had 200, maybe even 250 years of coal left in 1974 at 1974 rates of consumption, but the DOE was too optimistic even then, yet that ancient number has continued to circulate.
A lot of energy will never leave the ground because it would require too much energy to extract it, regardless of technology. It will be stranded.
People are deluding themselves that they can find AND UTILIZE EFFICIENTLY an infinite source of concentrated NET energy that also gives them a high energy return on energy invested. It was a one time windfall with no comparable substitute. We should be thankful we experienced it and move on. A huge surplus of non-food producers acquired a huge amount of new knowledge and discovery that will still be with us when the energy is gone. That is mankind’s lasting benefit from this one time event, “Hubbert’s Pimple,” which Hubbert called the most “disturbing” event in the history of the human race. Historians will write volumes about this era when it has passed. Without it, most of us would not be here.
Pasaran,
Surely we can all do with soul-searching and personal reform efforts. But they mustn’t be allowed to get in the way of hard anti-woke action in the world. Individual perfectionism is no excuse for allowing corrupt values to flourish while our gaze is turned inward.
How many think than suburbia is a great idea for the community or the architecture?
I know the primary motivation behind suburbia is to avoid excessive levels of cultural enrichment, but there is no reason suburbia cannot be done “right” – community and architecture can be accommodated by building in little “town” or “village” styles, and so-called planned communities are a somewhat feeble attempt at that. Not many succeed, but a few are quite pleasant. Usually because they were real towns/villages in their own right that due to urban sprawl have now become “suburbs”.
Great show – only ~ 2.5 months till the big 300. Anyway, cue scroatbama’s “that’s not who we are” line for any comment or thought that deviated even minimally from the standard lefttard social gospel belief – especially if it involved blacks, wamen or various other swarthy minorities…. Btw, you really need to do another xirl science update.
It’s pronounced “Grahm-she,” “sc” before “e” or “i” is pronounced “sh” in Italian.
Correct pronunciation of non-English names and words would be a nice upgrade for the podcasts.
No thanks. English doesn’t require pronouncing foreign words in foreign tongues; leftist NPR teacup-swillers make a fetish of it.
English people aggressively mispronounce French words eg LEF tenant.
It’s a cheap but amusing hobby. Try it!
You can have my whore’s doovrays when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
In my neck of the woods there’s a township of Versailles. It’s pronounced “Ver-sales”.
See, that’s where you’re wrong. Gramsci is properly pronounced Keeeeeeevvvvv!
The absence of pedantic pricks would be a nice upgrade for the comment section. Not that the clarification is unwelcome.
By the way, where can I find your weekly hour-long podcast?
Right on cue, Zelensky (absolute moral authority of buying more mansions) has called Musk an enabler of evil, with parrots in the media calling for SpaceX, Twitter, etc. to be nationalized. Presumably Tesla as well. Given the “troubles” we have had with satellites failing over the Western Pacific in the past few months, that’s a big risk. I don’t think the moral panic that is trying to be created will work this time.
The problem with moral panics is that they have a time limit like other fads like Chia Pets, Leisure Suits, pet rocks, pyramid power, and the Harmonic Convergence. Remember when Al and Tipper Gore wanted to censor rock records to prevent kids from becoming Satanists? Or when alar in apples would make kids retarded? Or every pre-school was a satanic temple? Etc. etc. At their start (like Beer-fluism) they are very powerful, but the shelf-life is about 9 months or so. See any Ukraine flags displayed anywhere recently? I’ve seen a few people masking up, but they look like a dude in a disco outfit in 1980. They don’t look cool — they look like losers. You can see other people looking at the maskers like they were wearing pyramids on their head. The desire for newness and novelty stimulation works both ways. Its hard to keep a social panic going for long.
OT: but did anyone see the 1990 movie “Avalon.” It’s a Jewish immigrant story of how a large extended traditional family gradually becomes atomized. Per the move, to be an American is to be atomized.
We’re all just workers and consumers. There’s no help from society for upstansing families. If anything, families have to shield their children from society.
Society makes men and women marry and reproduce far later than nature intends. Which means grandparent’s are too old to be much help and they hire expensive nannies. Parents kill themselves at work and pay everything out of pocket for their kids with piddly ass tax breaks. Housing and school are insanely expensive and the price tag is no guarantee of quality or safety.
There is no grassroots community or system of governance and culture to assist or make things easier for families to coordinate and afford things, quite the opposite. Just a mass of workers chasing the buck to be able to carve out a little pocket of family serenity witu extreme effort and expense. It’s sick.
Nothing works because nothing is workable anymore. Too many people of different kinds, no standards, no extended connection, no common understanding of fostering a decent and sane way of life. Just the very rich at the top wielding the imbeciles and barbarians to ground down the decent into desperate little working atoms.
Beautiful movie, Tin Men is also really good.
Before listening, then, one could posit that the uniquely American character is a response to our radically different environment: a largely empty continent (due to the 90% population loss by Natives to disease.)
Only Whites could exploit such a rich, empty resource base as rapidly as the US/Canada, Australia, and the Cape of Southeast Africa (depopulated by Bantu genocide.) Only we, the ancient far-travelers, could travel so far, so fast, and so effectively.
(p.s.- our ancient circumlocations have left a belt, a trail of red and blonde heads that circled the globe.
If you want to be really radical, consider the pyramids proto-Whites left from North Africa, to Central Europe, to western China, to South America, even unto Alaska (!) and Antarctica (!!)
(p.s.s.- pardon me, actual Whites, not proto-whites, per the remains found, and yes- shockingly, one in Alaska, three in Antarctica; some 3300 around the world, last I heard, dating back to the end of the Ice Age.)
I say our story and purpose are far greater than what our antipathic replacers can conceive; they cannot and could not understand any more than the most limited fractions of what we alone can grasp, degrading all of our understandings into the corrupted fables of traumatized savages.
Try as they might, no other can be Us. There is no upgrade to White.
Any attempts are a contagion, of which we must fight free lest the Darkness consume.
Our enemies do not disagree with you, they just frame it differently: Only whites are sufficiently rapacious and remorseless to plunder Gaia and the indigenous first peoples purely for their own wealth and comfort…. instead of all living together in harmony with nature and the little mulatto children, as the noble savages do
Here in old Seneca country, the tales of rapacity and genocide are mainly about what the Iroquois league did to the weaker, less war-like tribes that preceded them, who were either exterminated or driven off west. What some tribes did to other tribes, in terms of cruelty and ruthlessness, beggars belief.
That said, being one who sits on a property that, 250 years ago, was wooded hunting ground of the Seneca, I appreciate the origin of all rights as – pace Anton – the right of conquest.
That an army of charlatans, weirdos, criminals, and degenerates has reduced us to subjects of their empire is consistent with the history of mankind; they are strong, we are weak, and by right of conquest they take what they want.
The Seneca, from Irving to Salamanca, are doing a good job reconquering whitey through their dispensaries. It won’t be as thorough as their extermination of the Erie but it’s turning quite a few people around me into zombies.
Yes. And they are really raking in the cash with their inexpensive cigarettes. No doubt their people in Albany helped push through the latest tax increase.
Right on cue, even Ace recognizes that Prohibition is coming. First in Canada, then NY State, then nationwide. Experts! all agree, you don’t need booze. So with the lockdown 2.0 Election Variant, it will be a race between the office blue haired crazy and man’s insatiable desire to get ripped.
I’m betting on the ripped part.
Yup.
The clerks at the gas stations and party stores here in NY that scan our licenses for booze purchases don’t realize that I’m not joking when I claim the scan is to that the state can track and eventually cut me off.
This is why I buy my beer at the little independent stores run by south Asians. They never proof me, let alone scan my license.
One thing I noticed about the obligatory scan is that cashiers often fail to check the front of the license, to confirm that it belongs to you. So, as an experiment, I handed my late wife’s license to a particularly inattentive cashier at a Crosby’s. Sure enough, she scanned it and out I went with my beer. Just a little slice of AINOiana, right there.
His site took a break from posting about Disney, comic books, and Our Greatest Ally?
The eternal Puritans of the Social Gospel movement in the modern age, shorn of the religious Christianity of their antecedents, don’t want you to worship Jesus and behave like all good Protestants to bring about the Second Coming by force. They want you and especially your children to worship them as the prophets of Social Justice. Self worship is the new religion and the new gods on earth are the Woke. That is also the reason that there are so, so many Bagels in the new priesthood, because they worship themselves more than any other people on earth.
I keep expecting them to bring back slavery just so they can regain that ecstasy of abolitionist fervor. There is no substitute for that powerful dopamine hit.
Oh look, a Minnesotan libtard immivader finds out the hard way that defunding the police is a bad idea:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/defund-police-democrat-politician-left-broken-leg-bloodied-face-after-violent-carjacking
Of course, now she’s all about law n’ order.
You just can’t make this stuff up.
Poetic justice. This immigrant bozo was living in a make-believe word utterly cut off from the real world of jogger thugs. I’ve absolutely no sympathy for her.
Munchausens-fake blood fake outrage-where’s the neighbors video?
loom-
That only makes the irony more delicious!
Just read that. It is NOT an interview. It is Epoch Times reporting on this weirdo’s FB post on the “incident”. Albeit something apparently did happen because Andy Ngo picked up the story too.
But on interviews with the neighbors, the cops, etc.
And her post talks up a return to Law and Order, but ALSO seizing guns.
While I’m disappointed she didn’t suffer far worse consequences, she should be forced to live amongst the two things she championed the most, diversity and no police. In fact, I wish all police would quit in these leftist cities. Let them wallow in their utopia. I wish them nothing but the absolute worst suffering imaginable.
Hahahaha
Funny how fast they have a change of heart. A smash-n-grab with Reality will do that to the smart ones.
Cute girl, too.
She’s still blaming guns. To hell with her only injustice here is that she got off easy didnt get fully enriched by diversity. If you saw this situation and intervened with a gun or even restraint that inadvertently kills a future astronaut she’d be lining up enthusiastically with an army of (((lawyers))) to crucify you.
Yes, leave it to worthless joggers to pass on probably the only fully justified opportunity ever presented to them to share their full spectrum of vibrancy.
May she suffer for the rest of her miserable life from this attack, both mentally and physically. I hope she can never shake the fear that they might be just around the corner and waiting to exact their revenge.
I have nothing but contempt for her and people like her. Let her go the hell back to whatever shithole country she slithered out of.
My guess is she’s from northern India.
I don’t really understand what being “American” is except perhaps deracinated whites torn away from their ethnic and cultural heritage in Europe.
On the tangentially related topic on what’s happening to US society with the crucial assistance of the woke warriors, there’s an interesting post by Ed West today and definitely worth a glance:
https://www.edwest.co.uk/p/the-great-american-exodus
AA-
That was good, but Mr. West is wrong about the police not blessing the 2020 insurrection riots.
There were plenty of police departments in blue and purple jurisdictions that stood by, actively supported, and even arrested citizens who tried to counterprotest the 2020 riots.
Was it a case of orders from on high? I know that many police departments were reluctant to get involved because of fear of criticism and job loss.
2020 was a golden year for the police. Cops become cops to live outside the law with politicians and criminals. The state-sanctioned riots and crime wave, along with a new license to beat up clergymen and little girls for science, made their separation from the citizenry total and permanent. They’re just *one last order* away from apotheosis.
That would make what they did even worse. That makes them thugs for hire, which is basically what they are. They will do whatever they are told to do, whatever they are paid to do.
A lot of people on the right like to side with the police like it’s 1923 or something. US police are an occupying force. They will happily stand idle while BLM or antifa try to kill you and then arrest you if you try to defend yourself. Every malicious prosecution in the US started with the paid enforces doing the perp-walk for the guy who tried to defend himself. It was a uniformed thug who put a bullet in Ashli Babbitt’s head.
Look at the videos in this story. If you saw these “lawmen” out at grocery store with their families, you would say that they look like the type of men that would be sympathetic to our world view, when nothing could be further from the truth.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/liberty-safe-changes-policy-require-subpoena-release-access/
Life has existed on Earth for about a billion years. During nearly the entirety of this interval, a harsh natural environment greeted these life forms and evolution was guided by survival of the fittest. The weak/deficient were purged and the strong/robust persisted. Then Homo sapiens happened and civilization resulted in the death of the natural selection gauntlet. After the language adaption occurred, post-partum programing enabled wisdom transfer to succeeding generations and this advantage took us to the top of the life pyramid.
Religion became the formal mechanism of wisdom training and was based upon longstanding ancient knowledge that was both hard earned and proven. And then we became too big for our britches and started inventing “wisdom” on the spur of the moment in order to serve short term interests (often bad or malicious ends). The best analogy for this is a pathogen-based societal disease.
The human body purges pathogens or dies. It really is that simple.
Hrrrmmmmm. Fair enough, Tom.
I might quibble with you and our esteemed blog host and say much the same, but differently. We were dead meat the second we convinced ourselves that diversity was a strength. It obviously and demonstrably is not; in fact it can successfully be argued that it is the exact opposite.
In mathematics we reduce complex equations to simpler ones to make them easier to work with. This simplification is not laziness or stupidity as Z seems to imply. I think we can do the same with the social gospel movement and simplify it significantly.
Our strength is unity.
Right now America is done for. Fully 50% of its legitimate citizens are fully invested in ideologies and communities dedicated to the destruction of that unity. Millions of illegitimate ones are swarming in. Some aspects of that disunity are legit… but most are not. The jews are out for the jews. The blacks are out for the blacks, the queers are out for the queers etc etc. Those groups may form temporary alliances among themselves but we are now a house divided, and we shall fall into war because of it. There is no fixing this. If we are ever to have unity and strength again…we are going to have to kill a LOT of people that hate us and want us dead. Keep in mind that they are looking for simple answers and easy scapegoats too. They will find them in us. They will not be constrained by morals, ethics or by God. Either as dissidents or as Christians… the fight will be brought to us. If we need morals and ethics to unify…we’d better jump on that and bloody fast too. It may not be the End Times… but a storm is definitely gathering…
In theory, a straight-up mano-a-mano fight ala Braveheart is the most noble way to decide who is fittest. But that is not the game that is being played currently. The Elites want to foster an annihilation between the bottom elements of the social pyramid because they then get to hide safely in their enclaves and revel as spectators to the slaughter. And at the end of this process, there are few to no alphas left to challenge their preeminence. Consequently, the first imperative is focus.
“we convinced ourselves that diversity was a strength”
Did “we” really convince “ourselves” of that?
White Christian southerners werent convinced when federal troops integrated their schools at gunpoint.
To this day no white person who loves their children and has anything on the ball whatsoever will send their kid to a predominantly black school.
Most may SAY all sorts of stupid things in public but most people are beholden to the (((financial, corporate, and media establishments))) in some way, even if its just fear of persecution.
White people never voted for all this and they are less and less genuinely supportive every day.
Hear, hear. Recently long-suppressed photographs of federal law enforcement menacing White Southerners during the Sixties with the explicit threat of violence and death have started to circulate once again. As a warning. This system has been malignant and evil a long, long time.
White people in Congress did indeed vote for this–but, to their credit, not the Southern delegation. It was the North and the West.
With my usual disclaimer that I have not listened to the show yet, and am simply reacting to what is written in the summary, I would agree with this, although I would disagree that is a uniquely American phenomenon. I would say that it is a uniquely Faustian phenomenon (Spengler’s term for Western civilization); but it can be more or less profitably discussed in a circumscribed American fashion, so there’s no need to argue about that now.
Something I have been saying for many years, and something that the establishment conservatives don’t understand, is that America and its constitution are Masonic foundations. By “Masonic” I do not mean that they are dominated by secret societies or any of the conspiracy theory stuff. I simply mean that they are part and parcel of that phase of Western history, very inaptly named the “Enlightenment,” wherein a new, humanist and positivist cosmology was substituted for the ancient one rooted in divine truth, revelation, and the proper use of natural reason.
Modern progressivism is the flower of this humanist development, and it is more Western (or American, as the case may be) than those who oppose it. This leaves those of us who disagree with this sort of thing with a stark choice: We must inwardly detach ourselves from identifying with America and the West.
” I simply mean that they are part and parcel of that phase of Western history, very inaptly named the “Enlightenment,” wherein a new, humanist and positivist cosmology was substituted for the ancient one rooted in divine truth, revelation, and the proper use of natural reason.”
For humanism, see the Sistine Chapel (where humanity dictates what God looks like and *drumroll* he looks like a man).
For positivism, Scientism, and the ability to restore humanity to perfection, see Francis Bacon’s “The Great Instauration.” Bacon’s empiricism and proposed methodology is the basis of science. What people often miss is that its positivistic foundation is built upon the assumption that these tools can restore us to perfection, which progressives still vehemently, albeit unconsciously, believe.
A translation of Instauration is a relatively straightforward read (particularly part 2 – on the true interpretation of nature) and should be standard reading for anyone interested in this subject.
Interesting, but I cannot agree entirely. America/the West flourished mightily for approximately two centuries after the Enlightenment’s appearance. How many of us would not love to live in the West of 1823, 1923, or hell, 1983? No, Enlightenment positivism/humanism may well have prepared the ground for Insane Clown World, but it was insufficient on its own.
Another factor put the torch to the kindling, and that was postmodern relativism, which was antithetical to Enlightenement universality. Paradoxically enough, however, the pomo fascists saw the destruction of the white West as an item of progress, which dovetails with Enlightenment positivism. The intellectual history of the West’s implosion is complex.
PS– The West did not begin with the Enlightenment. Most historians rightly trace its birth to ancient Greece. The Enlightenment was simply a new and radically different phase of the West’s development.
It isn’t that the West began with the Enlightenment, and I do not mean that it did not produce wonders. The problem is the intractability of the system that is predicated upon universal values. The Enlightenment naturally arose out of the history of the West. Its problem is that it prided itself on its ability to impose universal truths with too much self-awareness; e.g. calling itself the Enlightenment (Kant). Feeling the burden of history in a way never before felt is the natural result of where things were going, but its core conceit leads to its inflexibility – therefore taking things to insane yet logical conclusions based on its core beliefs.
Yes, but you can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. The Enlightenment doesn’t vitiate Western civilization.
“We must inwardly detach ourselves from identifying with America and the West.”
Not a stark choice. For example, I did this several years ago. I despise this country and everyone who runs it. I’d rather wipe my ass with the flag than display it proudly. This country hates me so I hate it back. It’s really that simple. Also, this is an unrecognizable place now. When I was growing up in the late 70s and 80s, I was a proud “American”, but that was mostly because I was just a kid and didn’t know better. America ceased being a real nation in 1865. Or even better, the moment the first black was brought over.
I find myself humming the star wars cantina music every time I have to go to a public place in a big city. It all makes way more sense that way.
I always do bongo bongo bongo I don’t wanna leave the Congo, but that’s mainly from playing Fallout 3.
I have very limited familiarity with the original Social Gospel movement, but a cursory internet search returned the following:
“The Social Gospel [sought to address] economic inequality, poverty, alcoholism, crime, racial tensions, slums, unclean environment, child labor, lack of unionization, poor schools, and the dangers of war.”
I expect my assumptions regarding the causes and solutions for “racial tensions” would have been at odds with those in this movement, and prohibition was clearly a mistake, but otherwise none of these issue causes me any particular angst.
I have no doubt that a line can be drawn from these folks through the post-WWII revolutionaries all the way to men in dresses with their brats and potatoes lopped off and the entire anti-white system we live under, but considered on their own, the Social Gospel folks of the Progressive Era seem to me to be people who, while naïve about certain realities, promoted a number of laudable goals, including positive eugenics.
Only negative eugenics was pursued. No one attempted positive eugenics, that would have inconvenienced the wealthier classes.
There’s a reason Medieval saints never prattled on about social justice, and that’s because one’s inner virtue was of the most importance, and lack of personal virtue will turn any venture one takes in society into something destructive. It’s not like there were no fruits of these people either, as countless monasteries, orphanages, and poorhouses were created by these people.
Looking outward too much also turns into the fanatical idealism and savior complexes that will lead a man to perdition. Thomas Aquinas, for instance, abhorred sexual immorality but understood banning prostitution would create all sorts of nasty secondary effects. There’s far more practicality to a virtuous man who knows his limitations and the limitations of society than the loud, idealistic, but morally flawed preacher.
Exactly. There is an essay by the Orthodox priest/monk Seraphim Rose on this topic. IIRC he specifically argues against crusades to save the world, because they are not in the Christian spirit. One will endanger one’s soul in the process.
Christ never railed against the Romans with their slave economy and ubiquitous violence. He never said anything about overthrowing the Empire and making the world. “right”. He did say Render unto Caesar etc and The poor will always be with us etc.
Christ was no Karen.
There was a pervasive current during the several centuries of the second temple period that the Yah was going to tear down the world and build a new one. The Apocalypse of John has page after page of poison the oceans and earthquakes and plagues and etc.
Isn’t most of the bible rants, and destruction fan fiction?
“Isn’t most of the bible rants, and destruction fan fiction?”
Not at all. You seem to be ranting against a book you have not actually read.
Technically, it’s not a book, but a collection of books (or collection of writings).
Great point in the post about how the SJW spirit is deeply connected to something intrinsically American.
I think it derives, at least in part, from the “universal” claims underlying America. For most of history, human societies made the basic claim: “Our way of life is good FOR US.” It left open the reality that other kinds of people would have other ways, that from their perspectives were no less “good,” but good for THEM.
The claim of America is that it’s good for EVERYBODY. It’s universal because it’s propositional, derived from rational, “scientific” ideas about man and society. Americans (especially during the past century) have believed that their way of life is TRUE—not merely the accretion of habits and history of a given people. Importantly, both Left and Right in this country hold to this faith.
Traditional societies required no further justification for their existence beyond the fact of existence itself. By contrast, the American “mind” is always seeking to justify itself—to prove it represents Truth and not just accident. Furthermore, it demands that OTHER societies justify themselves in turn.
I think this is at the root of so many character traits in our society—traits that seemed noble and aspirational when they were still counterbalanced by “traditional” notions of nationhood from the past (shared ethnicity, religion, language, etc.) but became monstrous ills once the moral capital of the past had been spent, or diluted. America’s willingness to engage in invasive international crusades, to open its doors indiscriminately to immigrants; our mania for internal social reform, our bias towards “process” over “people,” and even I dare say our futile faith in the transformative power of education, all follow from the American insistence on its universal truthfulness. The whole SJW, trans, globalist ideology is the latest, most extreme and unmoored, expression of this.
> derived from rational, “scientific” ideas about man and society.
That’s key, as the implicit assumption of how societies should be run rests on people being interchangeable widgets. Put an Appalachian man in Seattle and he will become a Seattle man. Anyone incapable of doing this is defective in some way.
Yep, what I was thinking. ChrisZ seems spot on, but the concept(s) he speaks of is many faceted. Your “interchangeability” is really little more than “equality” of humans in terms of “ability” and current HBD science shows that not to be true from a genetic standpoint.
Better still, put a Somali in Minneapolis…
“Put an Appalachian man in Seattle and he will become a Seattle man. Anyone incapable of doing this is defective in some way.” — Managerialist Credo.
In truth, most people who do make that leap (abandonment, more like) are as defective as the Big Brains who believe in Magic Dirt.
I do not necessarily disagree, but I would point out a distinction to your points. Before the Enlightenment Revolutions (American and French), the governmental structure was not based on theory – it naturally evolved; thus, even the statement “this way of life suits us” is more self-consciously aware than is probably fair.
Someone yesterday or the day before wrote that American law traces back to the Magna Carta and before. The difference is the Magna Carta and English Common Law typically further developed when one of the aristocratic parties were not fulfilling or respecting traditional duties. In this manner, the law, such as it may be, was written as a way of formally codifying the already existing social structure and relations. The Magna Carta is the perfect example of this. Nothing in the Magna Carta is particularly novel. John’s sometimes pettiness and cruelty violated the expected conduct of the King. Coupled with the breakdown of the Angevin empire and domestic troubles, the aristocracy forced John to submit to the already established traditions of England. I have a huge interest in Anglo Saxon England up until the Hanovers, and I notice that people casually attribute to the Magna Carta some revolutionary descriptions. I will not deny its long term legacy as a symbol; but, as a legal document, Henry II and Richard I, in essence, abided by the laws written in the Magna Carta.
Up until the Reformation, the only times kings were really challenged on authority was when they violated good taste and expected behavior that is naturally expected of a King – including firm rulership (John, Henry III, Edward II, Richard II, Henry VI, – Edward IV’s failure to secure rulership for his son).
The whole meandering reason for this buildup (sorry – slow day at work) is that these laws attempted to codify what is already existing and evolved naturally. The American and French Revolutions were unique in their attempt to posit, as Z is fond of constantly writing, oughts instead of is – Hume’s fork, in essence. With the Reformation, Renaissance, and Enlightenment, the gradual attempts at securing existing relations were supplanted by the desire to impose a perfect structure based on how things should be.
Excellent point. And in light of this point, it is worth noting how much Americanism and communism share. Both are totalizing forces with pretentions to universality.
Yes, Ostei. I didn’t want to go there in the comment. But 30 years after the Cold War we can see more clearly that Communism is not the opposite of Liberal Democracy, but more like its dark, unruly twin.
Yep.
In a way, communism was an attempt to speed up liberal-capitalist development. Not any kind of alternate path. Just getting to the destination faster.
Another black pill to swallow. It appears that the blue hairs are really the “true blue” Americans and formerly patriotic traditionalists such as myself are the weirdos. This explains my growing feeling of alienation in a country that I once truly loved.
I’d guess you’re not weird, you just haven’t lost faith— you’re not missing something.
So NNM you are a bit like the guy at the end of I am Legend.
I used to love putting my American flag out in front of my house. It was a genuine patriotic statement in my mostly liberal neighborhood. But I haven’t put it out even once since late 2019. The turning point for me was the prison “suicide” of Epstein—the verdict of which was unquestioningly accepted and defended by the state and culture. That’s when I found I could no longer trust my country—when I lost faith. Of course, worse has happened since then, which has only vindicated my altered outlook.
All by way of saying, Nick, you’re not alone.
I became a race realist in 2010 when a pack of Hutus moved into the house across the street.
I recognized America had become AINO with the stolen election in 2020.
I became a misanthrope later in 2020 after observing the bovine stupidity of the human race during the Covid Captivity.
I am a dissident.
Isn’t that a song? Hear me roar?
Given the knowledge that Jeffrey Epstein had about the World’s movers and shakers, he was the most valuable witness for the prosecution in human history. A moral and ethical nation of laws would have housed him in the basement of the White House guarded by a battalion of Marines until he could testify before a grand jury. Instead they kept him in general population with a roid raging ex-cop murderer cell mate, inexperienced, sleep deprived guards, and monitored by the most unreliable CCTV system in the USA. They say that he somehow he managed to hang himself with his paper bed sheets. There is also the speculation that he death was faked and that he was smuggled out of the prison to freedom, which actually would make the US government even more corrupt than if they just facilitated his “suicide”.
When they housed Epstein in a heavily jewish part of NY, I said then he would either die in jail or escape to Israel. Turned out to be the former. I wish I could be wrong for once.
The claim of America is that it’s good for EVERYBODY.
How else would you justify enslaving the world through globalism if you didn’t claim The American Way of Life is good for everybody?
Looking forward to the podcast. However, as others have noted, “uniquely American” is really “uniquely Yankee and their culture Germanic cousins in the Midwest.”
Regardless, the modern SJW is just a reboot of a 19th Yankee missionary, just as every neocon and ADL type is just a modern Bolshevik.
I have made this point in other contexts. Years ago I did a post pointing out that since Gettysburg, Yankee New England has been running the country often using mild mannered Midlanders as front men. One cause of the current crisis is the rest of the country wants a say in how the country is run.
Albion’s Seed explains a lot.
Even the overtaking of Yankeedom and Midland’s leadership by a certain group was more a hand-off than a takeover. Both groups have a certain zeal for telling the rest of the country and world how to behave.
What we’re witnessing now – both in the US and abroad – is a push back. In the US, it’s a desire for other regions and groups to have a say in how things are run.
Overseas, it’s more of a desire to get away from these people. They don’t want confrontation. They just want a divorce, even if it costs them a lot of money in the short run. They know that they’ll be a hell of a lot happier without that scold telling them what to do every day.
I have used the term Judeo-Puritanism for this reason. Social activism is a big part of diaspora Jewish cultural outlook and it fits neatly in with high church Protestant reformism.
“Overseas, it’s more of a desire to get away from these people. They don’t want confrontation. They just want a divorce, even if it costs them a lot of money in the short run. They know that they’ll be a hell of a lot happier without that scold telling them what to do every day.”
Ha ha ha. Sounds a lot like the Confederates in 1860.
But this time, it’s the “Confederates” who have the superior industrial/ manufacturing capacity, the lack of which severely handicapped the Southern Confederacy.
The New England Yankees were expressing their original natures, but the Germanic surge into the Midwest was infused with an element of the failed revolutionaries of 1848, people hostile to the remains of the princely/aristocratic Ancien Regime, who mixed quite toxically with the Yankees who had moved West. A witches’ brew of know it alls – like today’s progressives – placing themselves in service to centralizing elites, but at that time desirous of crushing the South to retain access to their resources and land while advancing their goal of centralizing a compliant national government. Lincoln was, after all, a railroad lawyer (made sure to forward the transcontinental railroad and its favorable consideration of corporate interests even in the midst of the War Between the States), and there was no power center more interested in central, overweening government than the railroads.
The elites of whom I spoke had to wait until the fateful year of 1913 to get several of the missing pieces put into place:
1) 16th Amendment, Federal Income Tax whereby you, lucky bastards, are harnessed to securing the Full Faith and Credit of the Federal government.
2) 17th Amendment, popular election of US Senators, to replace original Constitutionally mandated appointment by legislatures of the several States. Just imagine the possibilities, chief among them removal of a central bulwark against the further centralization of powers of the Federal government, thereby largely vitiating the possibilities of the 10th Amendment, furthering the goal of turning States into mere administrative districts of the Federal government.
3) The Federal Reserve Act, placing the currency in the hands of a consortium of private banks. Goodbye US Treasury and economic control by elected representation. They used to call economics, political economy for a reason, but no longer.
A link to a wry good, and concise article on these points, originally published in 2013, the centenary of this tripartite coup by the centralizing elites (h/t WRSA website):
https://straightlinelogic.com/2023/09/05/the-blow-that-ended-america-100-years-ago-by-paul-rosenberg/
The GAE truly starts here in fundamental ways.
This is my 2nd day posting this link. Sorry to spam Z-Man. This is a supplemental that shows that the Godless, Messianic churches are not a new phenomenon. They weren’t rotted by Woke, they were Woke a long time ago, of course now they have cross pollinated with hateful gollums in a doomsday stew.
I recommend all of Bagby’s material.
Great Show Z-Man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl0GUT1aaSM&list=PLdTohPpw9-dWBKTZwm6zH2SpArUBcU5yl&index=5
“The modern Social Justice Warrior is a uniquely American thing, the full flowering of part of the American character. That blue haired crazy at the office is more American than anyone in the dissident right.”
Sans-culottes were French, Bolsheviks were Russian, Levelers were English, Nazis were German, Maoists were Chinese, IRA are Irish, etc.
Everyone’s got their self-destructive side.
Yes, but most other groups don’t feel the need to export their morality to rest of the world. Conquer the world, yes. Make them accept your morality, not so much.
The only other group that does that with any regularity is the tribe. Thus, the Bolsheviks.
The Nazi weren’t trying to impose their morality. They mostly out for payback. The IRA didn’t have any great morality other than get the English out of Ireland. The Levelers were just early Yankees.
The ancient Romans were masters of this, hence the Pantheon. Keep your gods, pay your taxes, we’re good. 😉
How many civil wars did the Romans have?
They loved slaughtering each other for institutional power rather than ideological reasons.
I think this goes beyond that as how many groups of Whites had to come to America because they held some fruitcake belief not shared by the locals. It reminds me of something an Aussie on Gab said in that you don’t see this proselytizing cult behavior from any other nation, and even within the borders it’s cults all the way down.
NormieCons are obsessed with the notion that China and Russia are states hell-bent on bribing and suborning other countries’ elites, plus outright conquest and the imposition of dystopian ideologies and social credit score dictatorships over their empires whilst extracting resources from the subject nations.
Which is exactly what their government does right now… and still would do if said NormieCons won both houses and the presidency tomorrow. Whatever they see when they look in the mirror, it ain’t them.
I’m a bit of a China/Russia shill, but I still believe that a Little Green Man from Mars as an objective outsider would come to the conclusion that the American variant is worse because it’s more hypocritical and its ideology is far more socially destructive than those of the other two (who are in reality not very concerned with windows into the souls of men… more with outward civil behaviour).
“Bolsheviks were Russian”- The Bolsheviks, at least until Stalin (a Georgian front man) engineered some changes in the Party, were overwhelmingly Jews, some Letts, very few Russians. Even Lenin was half jewish (his mother was full Ashkenazi, not half) and half Turko-Mongol. Nothing Russian about the “Russian” revolution.
Like the ADL, the Bolsheviks weren’t Jewish. They just were filled with Jews and run by Jews (pure happenstance).
“The modern Social Justice Warrior is a uniquely American thing, the full flowering of part of the American character. That blue haired crazy at the office is more American than anyone in the dissident right.”
Really? Respecting other people’s political beliefs was part of what it meant to be American. Ramming your beliefs down other people’s throats may be Yankeeism, but, Yankees don’t count as American.
Herbert Marcuse, an alien outsider, must be turning in his grave because you think his subversive activities went for naught. All the “woke” are doing is acting out his ideas and those of his fellow alien subversives, in the real world.
American regularly tarred and feathered people who held unorthodoxy beliefs. The Puritans killed al of Indians and a lot of Anglicans because they would not conform. This notion that tolerance was an American ideal was introduced in the 20th century by the people you now blame for the current troubles. Now that is some powerful kung fu.
It was Yankee abolitionists who laid the foundation of the modern political dynamic of appeasing the morally outraged.
In essence, this is how I see these “woke” SJW’s as a recrudescence of Yankee abolitionism. Their object is the same, to seize the moral political high-ground so they can ram their anti-social beliefs down the throats of anyone who doesn’t share their ethos. They, also, regard any opposition to their crackpot beliefs as a manifestion of total evil.
The so-called “civil war” was a really a coup d’etat by one section of the community against all other Americans who didn’t want to be bullied by the New England merchant class. That is, strong nation state Hamiltonians versus decentralising Jeffersonians.
As a result, the inheritors of the Lincolnite Settlement/Empire like to go to war under a banner of convenient moral outrage whilst leaving it to everyone else to infer the true motives for their aggressive actions.
Finally, what is really happening with these “wokesters” is just a continuation of the (((communist/progressive liberal))) assault(Cold Civil War) that they are waging against white America, the one that defeated the Third Reich, that began with the civil rights agitation in the 1950’s. It’s no coincidence that sixties retreads like Nancy Pelosi, who are occupying positions of authority in the government, are resorting to the tactics of their glorious youth in their jihad against Donald Trump and his supporters whom they hate like poison.
We’ve become a really vicious version of the old geriatric USSR without the cool iconography. Also, they had no blue-haired obese transgender freaks.
True but since the USA is a liberal, secular state, it is the religious who have eventually ended up as the targets of the tar and feathers.
No. Clearly their religion trumps (hah) your religion since they are on top and you are not.
It’s Religions all the way down.
Except for my omnipotent and all-knowing Turtle.
Tolerance was a midlander quaker trait. Not a Ynaqui one.
Scotts-Irish borderlanders had their version of tolerance, which was different than the quaker one. More along the lines of stay the fuck away from me and I’ll leave you alone whereas the quakers were the original can’t we all just get along.
“The present lunacy we are experiencing is not due to … the work of alien outsiders exploiting our kindness.”
Such a prolific essayist, writing such pablum.
Fascinating how the strawman entity of “social gospel advocates” bought up all the media and are the principal funders of US political campaigns. With names like Adelson, Saban, Boomberg, Soros, Uihlein, Moskovitz, Schwarzman, Sussman, Marcus, Perlmutter, etc. you’d think that Washington Gladden himself had come to life and ruled our land.
https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors?cycle=2020&view=fc
Puritanism is the vector by which the interlopers spread the disease.
America was birthed already infected with Political HIV. Usual Suspects’ contribution is analogous to an opportunistic TB infection.
It’s not enough to just treat or eradicate TB (although this needs taking care of) — failure to look at root cause just means that something else will come along and kill you.
Hmmm… perhaps not the kind of analysis likely to get me tenure at Claremont. But then you know what Groucho said about any club that would have him.
Even the classic cowboy films from the America’s golden age betrays social justice warrior-ing.
For example watch The Magnificent Seven from 1960. Why do those white boys feel the need to protect a Mexican town? Let the Mexicans handle it. But the Anglo-American had to impose their morality. Some of them even died for the Mexican town.
To cite another bit of golden-age pop culture, Star Trek could not be made in any other country. It simply does not occur to Russians, Chinese, Iranians, or Indians or anyone outside the Anglosphere that people should band together and fly around the cosmos promoting “human” (read: Anglo) values.
The book Gilligan Unbound explores America’s liberal democratic values and how they are projected or proselytized in 60’s television shows. Star Trek gets a special look at how these beliefs or values are taken to other planets. American busybodyism and sickening moral virtue signaling. Yes, it’s in our dna.
If it’s so sickening why are other countries citizens risking their lives to come here? Clean safe and orderly must have a universal appeal then.
Japan is clean, safe, and orderly. It is also not very welcoming to foreigners trying to immigrate (to put it mildly).
To an African, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia looks like paradise. They also don’t roll out the red carpet for suchlike.
America and Rest of the West is the easy soft touch option. In like Flynn (literally, given the debased run amok state of our womenfolk).
International Socialism?
They yearn for intergalactic socialism.
Captain Picard will cry out in pain as he is forced to proton torpedo you for your own good.
Only Western Man could come up with an ironclad rule called the “Prime Directive”. Then fly around breaking it every episode.
I think it’s more specific to Anglo Man or Anglo-American Man, or even as far down as Yankee Man, than “Western Man”. The prime directive was to keep Anglo Man in check, but Anglo Man can never be kept in check where there’s injustice.
I love ST:TNG as much as the next guy, but every time I hear one of Picard’s lectures, I think: this is Yankee morality in full flower. I actually like Picard’s speeches, but I realize this righteous rationalistic dispassionate moralizing appeals to ME, and Anglo Man, and not “humanity”.
I always thought the way the Federation constantly shat all over their own Prime Directive was oddly primitive and tribal. It was their way of saying “Look, we know we’re breaking our own laws, but on the other hand… we have a gun, and it’s bigger than yours.” Star Trek was always just the ultimate nerd revenge porn.
I always preferred Kirk to that sanctimonious ass Picard though. If ya’ gotta be a vengeful nerd, it’s better to at least be a brawling, drunken Irish one.
My BF is a hardcore Trekkie and we both like Patrick Stewart but he finds Picard insufferable. We both prefer PS as Karla in the BBC Smiley series.
The conceit of the shows was always that the Yankee morality of the Federation won out in the end. DS9 was a great series because it showed that the Federation acted exactly the same as all the other space empires with genocide and secret police.
All I remember about DS9 was the annoying black captain and his kid always throwing that stupid baseball around. Well, they also had obvious Space Jews. It’s amazing that they managed to get the Ferengi stories past the ADL. They also did a pretty obvious allegory of the Palestinians with the Cardassians as Israel and the Bajorans as Palestinians. Wait, was DS9 secretly a Cat Fancy production?!?
I’m pretty sure the writers of that show saw the Bajorans as themselves and the Cardassians as the midcentury Germans. The Ferengi were the badjews who didn’t care about leftism or Tikka Masala Elan or whatever they call it where the Jews think they need to heal the world by controlling it.
“ Only Western Man could come up with an ironclad rule called the “Prime Directive”. Then fly around breaking it every episode.”
Probably a subtle “conditioning” of the American audience to our shenanigans going on around the world at that time.
Rules Based International Order, Citizen!
R2P-you is the droid you’re looking for.
It’s been going on for longer than that. If you’re a fan of old time radio, you can hear it begin to creep into the content and public service announcements around 1941. If you binge listen to some old episodes of Fibber McGee and Molly from around that time, it’s rather remarkable how quickly it came out of nowhere to become a permanent feature of American culture. You could probably even pinpoint the exact day if you were a diligent enough listener.
Woke would appear to be the daughter of WWII. Not that the tendency wasn’t inherently American before that, but that seems to be about the time it began to formalize itself into the the perpetually hectoring public nuisance we know and love today.
I listen to a lot of OTR (from that era I prefer The Great Gildersleeve to Fibber McGee) but I’ve generally thought most of the war-era PSAs were simply that, encouragement to do one’s part during a national crisis. You hear ads for victory gardens, Community Chests and other support-the-boys-over-there endeavors. I’m not disagreeing with you, I’ll just have to pay closer attention.
It’s a fictional story which is a knock-off of Japanese film “The Seven Samurai” where the bandits are, probably, a symbolic represention of the American occupation forces.
In other words, the characters are doing what the director and scriptwriter want them to do for their own propagandistic purposes.
Would real cowboys act like that?
TMS–a very good flick, BTW–does indeed have a Leftist stench, but it is not typical of Westerns. Most Westerns focusing on expanding America westward, but don’t dwell much on convincing outlaws, Injuns and Messkins that the American way of life is holy. They were more about conquest than conversion.
” simply does not occur to Russians, Chinese, Iranians, or Indians or anyone outside the Anglosphere that people should band together and fly around the cosmos promoting “human” (read: Anglo) values.”
Although Star Trek certainly promoted liberal ideology (Roddenberry, Shatner and Nimoy were all Ashkenazi), I have to defend it on this point. Your construal is certainly not an accurate summation of the Prime Directive!
Z: “That is not an easy thing for people to accept because it means the problem is far different from what is comfortable. It means there is no simple answer. We do not just have to win an election and then ban CRT in the schools. We do not just have to get back to our constitutional principles. Those simple answers are not answers, but ways to avoid looking at the real problem, which is in the mirror.”
Regarding yesterday’s essay, Saint Joseph Djugashvili knew how to get rid of problematic personality types.
Just sayin’…
Waaaaay back in 1170, King Henry II of England beat Saint Joseph Djugashvili by plaintively bleating “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?” and voila!
The troublesome Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Beckett, suddenly acquired a grave manner.
Same solution, different centuries.
‘Working Towards the King’ you might even call it.
Sometimes works… Sometimes can have unintended consequences.
… You just “sayin'” than you’re part of the problem, as a stupid asshole monomaniac, which will never ask himself if he could do better.
Jewish power is the consequence of our decay, not the cause.
Of course I don’t write this for “Bourbon” the Stupid, but for the occasional readers.
TBQH, I think it would be moar at polymania.
Muh only true-n-heart-felt monomania would be MOAR WHITE BUNZ => WHITE OVENZ!!!!!
Unfortunately, polymania doesn’t seem to have yet made an entry for itself in the dickshunary.