Politics After Principle

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For as long as anyone can remember there have been two competing views of how to engage in politics against the people we call the Left. One camp says that opposition must come from a principled group that does not engage in the same tactics as the opponent, in order to provide an alternative to the Left. Their vision of politics is the means justifies the ends, in contrast with the Left, who takes the view that the ends justify the means, or any means necessary to win.

The other camp points out that the Left always wins, so the “principle above politics” business is pointless. The point of politics is to win, which means gaining power, so any strategy that lacks that as its goal is a waste of time. Further, this camp notes that the first principles crowd spends all of their time policing their ranks rather than fighting the Left, which means endless purges. The people being purged are usually the most effective fighters against the Left.

The critique of the “first principles” crowd is an easy one as they stand in front of an empty trophy case with pockets stuffed with cash. Individually they do very well in terms of salary and social status, but collectively they have managed to do so little with so much that it is easy to conclude that it is a long con. Billions of dollars have flowed into Conservative Inc., but they accomplish nothing. The two conservative wins, abortion, and guns, we accomplished by outsiders.

This should be an easy case. If the means justify the ends approach is an utter failure, then we are left with the ends justify the means approach. People on the right tend to favor “no enemies to the right” as a slogan, but fundamentally it is the same thing the Left has preached for generations. When the goal is winning, you do what you must in order to win, even align with low-character people. The point of politics is to gain power and once you gain power you can have principles.

There are a number of problems with this approach, specific to right-wing movements in the modern age. The first is the Boebert problem. For those unfamiliar, Lauren Boebert is a ditzy female congressman from Colorado, who was recently seen getting felt up by a man not her husband at a movie theater. The usual carbuncles of Conservative Inc. were quick to denounce Boebert, who they see as lacking principles. Her behavior violates their principles, so she has to go.

The dilemma for the “no enemies to the right” camp is that no decent man wants to defend this airhead. Whatever utility she has politically is cancelled out by the fact that she is a dingbat and an attention whore. Even remaining silent on her is tough because the absurdity of it makes for easy jokes. Can you expect people to not make Boebert jokes in the name of politics? Can you expect people to defend this ridiculous woman when lefty friends make fun of her?

That gets to the other problem for “no enemies to the right”. The bad guys control the media, so they control the popular narrative. That means they can hold their opponents to a high standard. In other words, they can make their opponents defend all of their members and alleged members. On the other hand, any attacks on their members can simply be ignored. If you are in the game of winning the crowd against the Left, you have to accept this asymmetry.

Dingbats like Boebert are the easy problems. The really tough problem for the “no enemies to the right” camp are guys like Russell Brand and Andrew Tate. The former is a far-left comic turned populist gadfly and the latter is a pimp and pornographer, who attacks the feminist industrial complex. Both have big audiences and often voice positions popular on the dissident right. Tucker Carlson has been seen paling around with them and promoting them to his fans.

Coincidentally, both have been accused by the authorities of rape. Tate was arrested in Romania on sex trafficking claims. He admits to being a pimp and pornographer but claims to operate within the law. Brand has just been accused of being a serial rapist decades ago. He denies the claims. The usual carbuncles of Conservative Inc. were quick to accept the claims at face value and denounce Brand. Their instinct is to always trust the people they claim to oppose.

The trouble here for the “no enemies to the right” side is that both Brand and Tate are horrible people, even if you exclude the claims against them. Tate brags about things that will get him hanged if the Right is ever in charge. If there is a revolution from the Right, Andrew Tate will not live to see its second day. Russel Brand is a sociopath who will attack anyone to get attention. Not so long ago he was happy to attack the enemies of Left if it made him famous.

How can the “no enemies to the right” side defend Russell Brand when it is clear he would savage them if he saw a profit in it? How can they defend Andrew Tate when he should be swinging from a tree branch? The answer is two-fold. The first part is that while all politics is personal, it is also situational. The Brand case offers an opportunity to focus on the abuse of the law against political opponents. It is not about the odious Russell brand, but the grotesque abuse of the legal system.

In this way the “no enemies to the right” side can wear the clothes of the “principled conservatives” to both undermine their claims by holding them to their own standards and attack the behavior of the Left. This leads to the second part which is that a part of dissident politics is reminding dissidents that the point of politics is to win and gain power, not be the most high-minded loser. Sometimes winning means defending people like Russell Brand in order to damage the enemy.

The lesson here in all of this, especially for the “no enemies to the right” side who are new to dissident politics, is that principles of any kind assume a common end. This is why conservatism was a failure. They assumed the other side wanted what they wanted, but through different means. This was never true outside of the neocons who never relinquished their radical ends. In a world of conflicting moral visions, there is no place for the principled stand.

Carl Schmitt wrote, “The specific political distinction to which political actions and motives can be reduced is that between friend and enemy.” In other words, the question central to politics is who is on my side and who is not on my side. There is nothing about the answer that should imply eternity. If Russel Brand is a useful ally, then he is a useful ally. When he stops being a useful ally, then he stops being a useful ally. In politics, allies are a bus you ride to the next stop.

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188 thoughts on “Politics After Principle

  1. Seems to me we’re still stuck in a model – a political construct – that requires us to defend or oppose whatever Boebert was doing. The point I think being missed is that if she were to vote to end Ukraine money laundering funds and impeach Biden and defund and disband the FBI, nobody would care what she does at the movies. It’s irrelevant.

    Trump has been showing people how to ABANDON the structures that were put in place decades ago to block us. Four indictments? It used to take one to force somebody out. Taxes, sex scandals? All destroyed – unless you agree to play along.

    The media has no answer to this. They read their script and they expect us to read ours.

    Burn the script.

  2. All the shit going on in DC and we are worried that a woman involved in a divorce let her date put his hand on her tit in a dark movie theater. Oh and she was vaping too.
    She is a ditz, but look at the right grab their pearls and faint at the left’s commad . would I defend her , yes , I would reply that what sh did did not cause one rdeath in Ukraine, syria,somalia , etc. and if my 6th grader can get life altering hormone blockers without my consent, then this is surely not a problem.

    • The problem with people like Boebert, whom I will now just refer to as “Booby” because it’s easier to type and funnier, is that she was *ever* pushed forward in the conservative movement. A lot of people on the Right will support women and blacks, in particular, because they think it’s a good way to blunt the obvious Lefty attacks against any White man advancing the Right’s agenda. They think it makes good realpolitik to put these people out there and will perhaps even refer approvingly to a message like Z has in today’s post to justify it.

      The problem, with upper middle class White women in particular, is that most of them are PURELY opportunistic whores. While this means that they can be counted on to advance virtually any idea you want them to (if the pay is right), it means that they will revert back to their true nature the moment they think the microphones and cameras aren’t on.

      So, in buying yourself a pass from one set of disingenuous arguments, you’ve opened yourself to the very high likelihood that a your vapid Booby bimbo will behave in ways that, from the point of view of conservative morality, will seem quite hypocritical at the very least.

      Of course there’s always a chance that anyone will experience a moral lapse. We all know about how many defenders of traditional morality have been caught with their moral pants down (sometimes literally). Think of all the ministers and old school conservative congressmen who’ve been found to be hypocrites. The difference though is that these men were *actual* conservatives or men of God who slipped up. The typical modern conserva-babe or Clarence Thomas impersonator is just the hired help. She’s just playing a role the whole time anyway. His or her moral “lapses” are actually just a return to the default setting.

      We need to take our own rhetoric about female nature seriously. I often joke with my wife that the 19th Amendment was a mistake. I’m not really joking though and it’s time to stop using women to advance ideas we don’t have the balls to.

      • look your reasoning is the way the alinski rules destroy us . If we do as you say, only perfect people can represent us. BTW it has come out it was her first date with the the gay guy.
        he clearly planned whrere to take her so that the camera would be set up. also , she brushed him off in the theater fairly quickly. I don’t give a fuck about who she is and what she believes, but as long as the dems can set somthing like this up and we go apeshit against the person, we are doomed . since it has now become open knowledge that Obama was a ceack smoking gay, do you think the dems will rush to condem him? We should be saying ” she has a right to privacy and her own life.” and then propose a law that makes it a felony to touch the tit of anyone not your wife. and ask them to support it.

    • I blame the guy she was with. It’s so much easier to just put your arm around the girl and slowly snake your hand down to play with her titty on the opposite side instead of pawing at it in such an obvious manner that would attract attention.

  3. I have no doubt that bobert was being followed and filmed by the mudslingers who were hoping for just this sort of catch. It could have been either party. Her only problem is she is hetro. If she had been handled by a sturdy sort of gal , the world would never have known.

  4. Boebart’s a trashy trollop. Brand’s a fink. Every politician is a ghoul. Do you die a principled death, or live an unprincipled lout? It’s times like these I think back to Candide, and all I can think is “Let us cultivate our garden.” Nothing else one can do.

    • Well said, It can be fun to bounce around ideas that could lead to our salvation and ultimate victory, but really, it’s all pissing in the wind. We are a conquered people and our survival requires that we understand that, just as the French understood that in 1940.

      The question becomes: How do we stay ‘who we are’ while under the grip of a malignant ruling power?*

      Our task is to preserve, through enslavement if and when it comes, some tradition – in song, stories, vernacular – the ancestral connection.

      The English did it after the Norman conquest, which is why the average sentence we utter in everyday speech is 75% of anglo-saxon origin. The scullery maids and stable-boys of Norman Britain kept our language alive through all of it.

      So, yes, plant the garden. Live a dignified life. Read up. Bring some cultural memory to the camps.

      *The Germans to their credit did not want to make Frenchman into pan-Germans, they actually liked France; our challenge is more like what the Uighurs or Tibetans face in Communist China – total assimilation, or liquidation.

  5. “Conservative” and “liberal” are both phony descriptions. No one truly falls into either category. Sometimes people are hungry – sometimes frightened – sometimes dejected. These are conditions we all experience. But to say you are a conservative? Or a liberal? That’s horseshit but nobody realizes it – or won’t admit it.

  6. Maybe, the pols on both sides are really playing for the same boss?

    The republicans are the designated losers in the fixed political game.

    Good luck to the CFR if they think that they can conquer the world with a Mexican Army.

  7. >The usual carbuncles of Conservative Inc. were quick to denounce Boebert,

    The worst thing is, they don’t need to say *anything.* Just keep your mouths shut. Or give some variant “no comment.” There is no need to denounce anyone, particularly when that person is down.

    Sadly, the meme about “the Conservative Case for…” articles is meme-worthy for a reason. Ditto wrt meme about Conservative Inc and Libertarian Inc existing solely to stab their friends in the back.

  8. Buses and bus stops is exactly the right way to look at it. My stock response to anyone who suggests I should be outraged about any of this is: “Call me when they do something that the Left wouldn’t instantly rush to defend, with any and all resources at their disposal, if someone on the Left did it.”

    Shuts ’em up every time.

  9. The Alinskyist tactics of the left proved wildly successful in dismantling “principled conservatism.” Trump showed up and the left went apeshit. And so did “principled conservatism”. “Hey, he can’t say that!” Trump dealt the coup de grace to “principled conservatism.” Study Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky.

    It’s the bane of every right-leaning public figure to be hounded for their every opinion. This tactic is the weapon the joownalists use in seeking or keeping power, and that is their only object. Remember, in Liberal Democracy, everyone must have an opinion about everything. In responding, every office-seeker or “influencer” should always appeal to popular opinion, which is still the majority opinion. Also, dismissive humor is a valuable skill in this war.

    A light touch is required on certain subjects. The charge of “dog-whistling” has lost its sting which is to say that we’re in terra incognita fellas. When someone like Col. Douglas MacGregor can say that the Constitution is obsolete, you know we’ve crossed the Rubicon.

    People like Boebert, Tate, and Brand are lightweight screwballs who cannot be used to smear any serious commenter. All the heavyweights were purged long ago by Conservatism, Inc.

    Study Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky.

    • Best bit I’ve caught re Boebert: after NR ran a long lament about how she and Trump or whomever will not be criticized by Republicans over sexual behavior, a NR commenter in reference to Boebert simply wrote “I think she’s hot.” That’s great. People are not about to take morality lectures AT ALL, as you wrote, from hypocritical perverts and especially people who fuel the mass murder of innocents as is happening in Ukraine and previously happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. NR is staffed by several people who are in a homosexual “marriage” and was a cheerleader for these wars for profit. They are done even as ludicrous objects of ridicule, as is all of their ilk.

  10. In a 2017 special election Alabama, after overwhelmingly supporting Trump for President, sent Democrat Doug Jones to the Senate. The nice white ladies just couldn’t support Republican candidate Roy Moore. Moore had fundamentalist Christian views that made the country club set uncomfortable. He was attacked relentlessly by Mitch Mcconnell and the RNC. After many years in public service a sexual misconduct charge from decades before suddenly appeared. So instead of sending a Senator to DC that would have supported Trump’s agenda 100%, Alabama sent a hostile Democrat instead. Moore was a graduate of West Point and former Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court so he must have had something on the ball. There are many Democrat wack jobs out there, like Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Senator “hoodie” Fetterman. You never hear the Democrats criticize their crazies, EVER. Republicans NEVER support an effective fighter for DR causes.

    • Moore had a long, complicated, and very public political history in Alabama, thanks to which there were many Rs and conservatives who never would have voted for him for anything, long before the Hickory House hoax. From outside the state looking in it’s easy to get the idea that it was that hoax that sunk him, but most of his loss of support among Alabama conservatives happened long before that. However, that might have just tipped the balance between 51-49 one way and 51-49 the other way.

      • I am fairly confident that Moore would have been a strong advocate for Trump’s agenda. Winning is all that matters. Do the left wing billionaires really like, respect, and want to have any contact with the likes of Maxine Waters.? She is a fighter for the cause so she get support.

    • Mitch macconnel and karl rove set up a PAC and financed and endorsed Doug jones , and they siced the mudslingers on Moore. He was cleard of wrongdoing after the election. I have no doubt that bobert was being followed and filmed by the mudslingers who were hoping for just this sort of catch. the GOP is just as much deep state as the kegans or chuck schumer .

  11. ” In a world of conflicting moral visions, there is no place for the principled stand.”

    Except you don’t believe this. If you did, you wouldn’t spend your Zman time saying what you say and doing what you do. You want to compete for power on “a level playing field,” sell your soul and see what you get for it.

    Lauren Boebert is hot. Some things in life speak for themselves.

  12. The problem here is that we’re all assuming principles was a thing in the first place. High level politics is extremely competitive and you simply aren’t going to see any ethical people there, in the same way that you would never see a fat guy playing in the NBA.

    The “principles” that we’re talking about is just the capacity for politicians on the right to sucker the grannies and christf*gs with a song and dance routine about how moral they are, same as the song and dance routine the left uses to sucker brainless women and jigaboos about how moral they are. As Z pointed out, the left controls the media, so lefty politicians get their kiddie fiddling ignored while righty gets a two hour exposé on the time he tried to secretly wipe a booger under a table.

    So it really comes down to the utility of defending any particular psychopath. Brand is charming, and Boobert getting groped in a theater isn’t exactly the crime of the century, so go ahead and use their persecution for political capital by defending them. Tate is completely unsympathetic to anyone aside from Dylan Klebold-esque teenagers, so throwing him under the bus makes more sense.

  13. I guess we are all Schmittians now.

    Or Yarvinians: “there is no politics without an enemy.”

  14. Brand at one point was the Left’s most celebrated “ladies man” and Katie Perry when she was considerably younger and hotter went nuts for him, I think even marrying him. And now he’s disposable. This speaks to the utter feminization of the Left and Regime. Name one macho, “men want to be like him, women want him” figure on the Left/Regime. There isn’t one. There are a few aging hold-overs, George Clooney (old and grey), that’s about it.

    [Brand/Tate could not have existed as male-appealing figures even as late as the 1980s as they would have been out-competed by others in popular culture]

    I’m not going to the mat for Brand, or Tate, or Boebert. But I’m not rushing to condemn them like the Bulwark either (last seen demanding nationalization of Space X, Twitter, and Tesla). I’m enjoying the fight between the UAW and the Regime/Big 3 Automakers over who loses more in the “Green New Deal.”

    Somewhat related as Pre-Revolutionary news, NBC has a new show “Found” which features as the key plotline 600,000 missing women of color every year held captive/killed by evil White men, with a black female heroine “abducted” years ago by some evil White guy, who in turn imprisons him and uses him to find the abductees/dead victims. Show is aimed 100% at White women. I will leave it to the reader to posit what this says about the direction of society.

    We have a White women problem. The greatest source of strength of the Left in the modern, post-WWII world is White women and pretty much every tactic they have is oriented around winning that population segment. Something broke in the relationship between men and women among Whites post-1945. I don’t know what it is, but its clear that it did. Read/Watch anything from before the War and then after in popular entertainment and you can see the difference.

    • Weak white men are the cause of broken white women. As an assertive and fit white male I have great relationships with most white women.

      However, well over 80% of white men have no idea how you’re supposed to treat women properly. It doesn’t involve being “nice” at all times even when she is being mean to you.

      Even the independent career women usually melt around an alpha male. Women’s nature is another uncomfortable truth that we just pretend doesn’t exist in our modern society.

      I love women and treat them nicely. However, incels, Boomer jokes about hating wives, and bitchy women are the symptom of men failing in this aspect. The solution to the incel crisis isn’t further emasculation, it is manliness. Andrew Tate crudely tried to push this message (though I am not Tate fan).


        The aforementioned ascendancy of Femin@zi-ism is, as we speak, on a collision course with V@xxination Reality.

        As a very rough first order approximation, muh guess would be that leftist BattleKμnts will prove to have been vastly moar likely to have been v@xxinated than will have been their TradConMommy nemeses.

        All of the emerging v@xxine data continues to indicate disastrous outcomes.

        The only good piece of news was from the recent Italian study, which indicated that PureB100ds have NOT started producing Spike Protein [i.e. it appears that Spike Protein production is not “communicable” via casual contact – knock on wood!!!].


        All the other news on the v@xxine front is simply horrifying.

        I don’t see how it will be the case that yuge swaths of the spectrum for human personality types will not be removed from the Tree of Life, simply because of dutiful unquestioning compliance & submission to the v@xxines.

        And I don’t know what will happen to the genes for BattleKμnt nihilism – maybe the BattleKμnts are so amoral that they secretly arranged for inert normal saline rather than the j00ish Death Juice – the BattleKμnts are certainly ruthless in their determination to win.

        Still though, muh gut instinct tells me that it will be the genes for their TradConMommy nemeses which will likely survive.

        And as the smoke clears from the V@xxpocalypse, the single moast precious commodity in all of creation will be the Pure-B100ded fertile White womb.

        • If we are in fact headed for a vaxapocalypse, then the bottom line is many, many fewer white people, many more blacks, many fewer east Asians, and a second jewish holocaust much greater than the first one. The remaining whites may be more well adapted, but they will be few. Blacks won’t be any more fit to rule the world than they have ever been, but their relative numbers would suddenly be staggering. I’m unsure how the arabs figure into this. Or the mestizos.

      • Dead on balls accurate. Women don’t dislike deferential, weak men – they despise them, have a seething contempt for them.

        I have had the same experience with white women, especially wealthy, powerful white women. They want a man, a white man, to be a cavalier and claim them.

        That isn’t easy with all of the feminine crap. However, the hottest most crazy sex ever is when a woman is in a dingbat angry episode and you stay grounded but let her know that BS is unacceptable. She wants nothing more than for you to stand up for yourself and get her out of her manic confusion/hysteria. If you don’t, that relationship is over, because she loathes you.

        This applies to society at large. White men we must help each other help ourselves and stand up. This is why white male erasure in all advertising is very dangerous for our future. It is aimed at our women who see that we are impotent to change this. We are going to have to be that much stronger, chivalrous and undeniable in real life to stake our claims.

        Oh, and to the point of the post, more cunning and ruthless in our use of alliances. Existence is the stakes.

        • “If you can stand up to her insanity, you get the reward of banging the thot.”

          Wow, where do I sign up?

          • Jeffrey Zoar: “Wow, where do I sign up?”

            On any college/university campus filled with undergrads & grad students & post-docs & professorettes, and at any hospital filled with LPNs, RNs, RTs, PTs, OTs, PharmDs, and female doctorettes.

            Also keep an eye out for bishes who teach K-12 [they simply cannot keep their underwear on].

            The bigly horrifyingly existential problem is that they’re all v@xxinated.

            In general, finding batsh!t-phμcking-insane Cluster-B chicks is rather easy.

            But finding batsh!t-phμcking-insane Cluster-B chicks who are still PURE BL00DED is gonna be an he11uva lot moar difficult.


            Cluster B

      • “Weak white men are the cause of broken white women”

        This is at best incomplete.

        There have been plenty of powerful masculine men who have advanced feminist policies, and raised poisoned daughters.

        Your average Joe Six-pack with no power had no say in the social changes.

        • “There have been plenty of powerful masculine men who have advanced feminist policies, and raised poisoned daughters.”

          Know the tree by the fruit.

      • Someone over at Severian’s place summed it perfectly:
        Women will be as crazy as they are allowed.

    • “We have a White women problem.”

      Plus what B125 replied, among other things, including deflection from the 35 white women murdered monthly by black males. Women respond to strong males, which falls on us, to reiterate what B1 wrote. The tribal propaganda does target white women, but it would not be effective if white men stepped forward, and it is increasingly ineffective due to the “hate facts,” as Vdare called them, such as the numbers of white women murdered by blacks.

    • Another thing that happened post 1945 was television. No doubt a key ingredient in the white woman’s changed outlook. Seems like a book length subject. The greater susceptibility of women to the “peer pressure” of mass media. Several books probably, were one to explore all the consequences.

      • Another thing that happened after WW2 is that the USA changed from being a nation where over 50% of the population lived in rural areas to a nation where over 50% of the population lived in suburban/urban areas.

        I think that is a huge change that doesn’t get talked about nearly enough.

  15. Pingback: DYSPEPSIA GENERATION » Blog Archive » Politics After Principle

  16. ZMan: “They assumed the other side wanted what they wanted, but through different means”.
    That would make an excellent epitaph etched upon the tombstone of conservatism.

  17. I’m about as troubled by the Boebert incident as the left was by the homosexual prostitution ring that was run out of Barney Frank’s office.

    Which is a separate question from whether or not she was ever really our ally. I guess she votes the way we would want her to, more often than not. Yay, civnattery.

    What really pisses off the left is when good looking white women in politics aren’t leftists. Because they fear the charisma an effective good looking white woman can exert. Boebert could have the moral forebearance of a Sister of Mercy and they would still go after her just as hard.

  18. Nonsense.

    Victory at any cost? Are you guys nuts? That is what the Left did, and that’s how they got here… dragging us with them. We need to define our terms – what does victory actually mean to you? Putting guys like Boebert, Tate and Whatshisface in charge? What kind of nation will people like that create?

    For me… I want a nation that looks like this forum right here: serious people. I want rules that apply to everyone and justice for the liars, cheaters and thieves. I want a fair marketplace where I can invest and do business. I want a media that tells the truth. I want the freaks to be confined to the circus, the closet or the mental hospital. I want leaders like me – that want to work hard, succeed, and invest in a solid future for the kids. That requires rules and boundaries that people do not cross. It requires harsh, swift punishment for rule breakers. That is the price to be paid if you want civilized respectful niggers, honest jews, good women and well behaved children in safe neighborhoods.

    There will be no shortcuts, fellas. Swapping a conservative flea circus for a liberal one may produce a win…but maybe not a victory. I am so old that I remember the Left before they went insane. The grandparents raised entire families in homes barely 700 sq ft. and considered themselves wealthy and privileged. Whadda I know? My idea of conservative victory will not sit well with many.

    • “I want rules that apply to everyone and justice for the liars, cheaters and thieves….(litany of good things/desires follows)”

      Yep, so did a I *once*. Alas, I played the game. Went to meetings. Spoke directly to candidates. Voted harder. Donated money. And what happened? Nothing positive of any lasting consequence.

      Next election cycle same old, same old. Slowly the Left installed its candidates and they assumed power/control. It did not even take a majority of the legislature as one “principle” of the old conservative Right (read Rep’s) was that of compromise and bipartisanship. The Left made inroads, the Right lost ground.

      Now one would think that after generations of steady loss in the political and societal arena, one would change tactics, but no—here you are today taking comfort in our “principles”.

      Time for a change.

      • Yes. By doing the things that destroyed our rivals? They weren’t always like this, C. Do you honestly think you can out-cheat guys that literally have pedophilia as a hobby? How is a conservatives version of Biden any better than the leftist one?

        Don’t put words into my mouth. I agree that the ballot box is a waste of time. If you’re serious about change, it’s time for the cartridge box. Anything else at this point is just theatre.

        So… if you want change, you’d better be serious about it, and have a meaningful vision of what victory is going to look like. Allying yourself with clowns isn’t going to do that for you.

        Not trying to be a dink… but: What would a victory look like to you? How will allying with these clowns put you closer to that?

        • Raising our flag over the smoking husks of their homes. That’s when we can turn our attention to matters of civility.

    • “I want a nation that looks like this forum right here: serious people.”

      The numbers aren’t there for that to ever happen and I am going to assume that there is nobody on this forum with any real power.

      That means either dealing with reality or being stubborn waiting for an impossible solution like the libertarians do.

      • The reality is that if you want to change things, necks will have to be stretched, bullets fired, and a whole lot of people need to die.

        The Alt Right failed by hitching its cart to fags like Milo, Vox Day and Richard Spencer. I don’t like libertarians either… but at least they’re still on the sidelines. The alt right is in the garbage and that is where the dissidents will be if they repeat the same mistakes.

        • Filthie,

          Your posts in this thread are much appreciated. You are speaking the truth and you should not be discouraged, even though others here might junk you for it.

          The Alt-Right really was quite bizarre in its choice of spokesmen, and the DR likewise has a backlog of strange beliefs that still need to be exorcised.

          • I don’t want to be still looking at my watch as the last white child is defiled by the scum that currently run our planet.

    • Then you will have to play to win. There is no other way. The temperment and approach described in this post is that of the Claremont Institute.

      They will preserve the ideas and notions of the American Way of Life, but oddly they will never effectively and doggedly fight for it. And so, Tel Aviv dictates to an international group of think tanks what National Conservatism is, not Americans.

      Our job is to change that. We define what American nationalism is. Of course, when we do that, a lot of wasteful nation expropriating funding will go away and special relationships called into question.

    • Nobody’s talking about putting the “rightwing” freaks in charge. What many are arguing–and I probably agree with them–is that you use the freaks to advance the DR cause, and then, once they’ve outlived their usefulness, send them to Bikini Atoll to work on their tans. In theory, at that point, the sort of society you say you want, will be in place.

    • Excellent. A loss is still a loss, and a loser is still a loser. Shortly you will find your principles engraved upon your gravestone, as irrelevant then as they are today.

      Sleep well. And soon.

  19. I’m sorry but the foolishness of you people posting your inane comments on this topic is too much. Right now this country is in a high state of alert looking for a F-35 fighter jet. Get outside and scan the skies and do your part.

  20. As with people like Candace Owens, Ramesh ponnuru or Vivek ramaswarthy, I couldn’t care less what Russell brand or any of them think about anything, especially if it supposedly involves “muh conservative principles”. I’ll never consider coloreds or far leftard White jackoffs as allies, period – grifters at best. Frankly, finding any of them as useful allies is a stretch, although stranger things have happened, I suppose. I’d much rather do without if at all possible.

  21. Tate is a mulatto degenerate who targets White women for exploitation and who lies about everything. I have no idea why anyone in our little section of the DR likes this guy. He is an example of the worst sort of ghetto rat.

      • He’s approaching the black stereotype, among other things, young whites aspire to be. Figuratively and literally, a transitional figure.

        • They grew up on rap and intersectional feminism. I used to work with a guy who admitted when he was a kid he wanted to grow up to be black. Counted blue mohawks at the gas station this weekend. The freak show is normie for the young.

          Somebody did a number on these people. They’re strangers to themselves, and someday they’ll realize it. I make a point of telling them it wasn’t me 😆

          • They are being robbed of their culture and heritage and fed fake and degenerate culture. Where the hell are their parents?

            If they are going to be shown black culture, they should get all of it, not just the stuff that looks good on the teevee. The meme of an “aspiring rapper” shot and killed is probably unknown to them.

          • “The freak show is normie for the young.

            It’s important for us old guys to remember that when talking with our descendants.

      • Why does it matter that his audience is 17 yo incels as long as that audience and message promotes the general direction of the movement?

        Again, leave you principles at the door, enter the frey, win, then pick them up again when you leave the arena.

        • If our movement is that 17 year old White boys should aspire to be mulatto degenerates, what the hell are we fighting for?

          There are White WOMEN that do feminist redpilling better than Tate and without all the baggage and lies and drug dealing.

          Tate is not an imperfect advocate of our values and ideals. He’s a degenerate enemy whose values are diametrically opposed to ours even when they partially line up by coincidence.

          IMHO, Tate is an example of what has gone wrong with society, not a pushback against what has gone wrong. His very existence is an example. He’s the son of a mudshark. He leads the opposite of an exemplary life. Even his “legitimate” accomplishments are fake or exaggerated.

        • “Why does it matter that his audience is 17 yo incels as long as that audience and message promotes the general direction of the movement?”

          IMO, because Tate — like the nice people, and, erm, ‘ladies’ that make money on Only-frens … EXPLOITS this audience with fake ‘masculinity’ they can never obtain.

          It is a grift that to me, represents a portion of the toxic culture, not an antidote.

          • Nobody with half a brain is saying he is either. What he is is a potential weapon. But you people don’t think that way. It’s why you constantly lose to those who do understand such things.

      • Politics make for strange bed fellows. I can’t think of any major modern political movement that did not use all sorts of “strange bedfellows” to reach its end goals. Hitler purged the SA when they served their purpose. Stalin got rid of “principled” commies after Lenin died. Mao and now the CCP have regular purges of leadership.

        No nascent political group can initially afford to be subtractive. This has always been my major criticism of the DR and stated numerous times in this forum.

        • My point is, negroes/mulattos, by their very nature, are not on our side. As DRs point out continuously, when it comes down to nut-cutting time, the negro/mulatto will always support his fellow negro/mulatto at the expense of his rightwing, white so-called “friends.” For the negro, his race is his universe, and we and our ideas don’t belong in it.

          • Aye. When Hitler, Stalin, and Mao had their purges, those dismissed and those who replaced them were Teutonics, Slavs, and Han. Outsiders didn’t enter the equation.

    • He’s a goddam Mossad agent

      Old photo, young Tate in IDF uniform, by that certain flag

      Pimps, remember? Look at that face. Ghetto Epstein.

  22. Thankfully, I know very little about Russell Brand or Andrew Tate. I’ve seen their names bounce around on the internet and I have a basic idea of who they are, but I’ve never sought out anything they’ve produced. They don’t interest me that much.

    That provides a good introduction as to why I am not motivated to defend them. It isn’t really a matter of principle. It is due to the fact that, by defending them, I would be accepting the idea that they actually matter. I would be validating the whole social system that elevates them into persons of importance and gives them a platform. To me, that is not and should not be the object of dissident politics. The object of dissident politics should be to strike at the root of what makes people like Brand and Tate possible in the first place.

    Brand and Tate exist as mass media celebrities, which is not an assimilable concept to any dissident. I have no intention of spending my life fighting for control of a manipulated, postmodern information space. I don’t think that the internet should exist. I don’t think that social media companies should exist. I don’t think that cable news outlets and the legacy news media should exist. The object of my politics is to recreate a world that is utterly free of these abominations; thus, operating within that space, as if it were usable terrain, is something even worse than a waste of time. It is a complete corruption of the point.

    Dissidents should accept as a foregone conclusion that they will never, ever win the internet. The internet is a progressive foundation that was engineered specifically to be a tool for the pacification of the masses, and it is not really fit for any other purpose. The internet is the bread and circuses of our age. For a dissident to think he can win the internet is like an early Christian thinking that he can stride into the Roman Coliseum, before a bloodthirsty crowd expecting a gladiatorial show, and give them a sermon on temperance, and expect to escape alive from their blows. Such things simply did not happen. The Christians were willing to die as martyrs in the arena, but they made no other efforts to convert it to their cause, for that was impossible. Those who were not called to martyrdom simply turned away from the spectacle in disgust. These are the only two options.

    Eventually, the whole concept of dissident politics comes down to a single choice: Do I wish to be conformed to this world, or not? If not, then we must turn away from it and accept that martyrdom or exile might be the culmination of that choice. The end is not in our power to control, but the turning away is. It will very likely require a certain number of real martyrs to sow the spiritual seeds of a new creation. We will not accomplish much here in the comm-boxes, I’m sorry to say.

    There is, however, a great strength that comes from operating outside of the enemy’s control. They do not expect you, they do not understand you, and they have no means whatsoever to deal with someone who does not present himself as a rival for their social power. All they can do is kill you, but they can never defeat the reality you represent.

    • “It is due to the fact that, by defending them, I would be accepting the idea that they actually matter. I would be validating the whole social system that elevates them into persons of importance and gives them a platform. To me, that is not and should not be the object of dissident politics. The object of dissident politics should be to strike at the root of what makes people like Brand and Tate possible in the first place.”

      The object of dissident politics should be like all politics: winning. If Brand or Tate advance that goal, use them, if not, discard them. To be clear, I share your abhorrence of the artifice of celebrity and media-generated personas, but them’s the breaks.

      • This.

        No room for fainting couches, smelling salts, withdrawals from the admittedly vulgar and shitty world — not unless ending up sitting in Cuckold’s Corner with Rod Dreher appeals muchly.

        Learn from Lenin. And Mao. Very unpleasant fellows, but Winners.

        The instruction manuals for Getting Power have been written, tried, and tested. It’s just a matter of extreme and sometimes cynical pragmatism plus great patience for the long haul so that one’s organisation remains intact when the Old Order just needs the final shiv. Er shove. Ahem.

        I do wonder if the Conservative American mind has been so brainwashed by the Hate Commies message that it’s incapable of separating the winning revolutionary strategies of Leninism and Maoism from the states they implemented after their seizures of power.

        How to handle the aftermath of eventual Victory is by far the more difficult historical problem. There’s still always the problem of purity spirals: ‘I prove that I’m more pragmatic and cynical than you by hereby putting you up against a wall for insufficient pragmatism and cynicism.’ After all, we’re only human 😀

        • This ain’t about us dinosaurs.

          It’s about the young, and the world they will live in. Adapt or die, old man.

    • American politics is a cross between a game show and “reality” TV poisoned by our degenerate culture. I don’t know about Brand, but Tate’s popularity in the DR is 100% around his degeneracy. The very same people cos playing being a nazi and a ridiculous racist on gab are fans of Tate, a mulatto degenerate targeting White women for sexual exploitation.

    • “Thankfully, I know very little about Russell Brand or Andrew Tate…”

      Throw in this Joe Rogan and you have three swarthy males that speak to their audiences at the level of a 5th grader. Whatever their collective reach, there really is no way to listen to them beyond 10 seconds without realizing that.

      • I had never heard Andrew Tate’s voice until I caught a minute or two of that interview he did with Tucker. I was expecting something a little more masculine from the self-proclaimed male activist. From the moment I heard that nasally, unconfident whine, I knew he was guilty as charged. Russell brand, of course, sounds like a mezzo-soprano on helium.

        I’ve never listened to a Joe Rogan podcast, but the clips I’ve seen have him sounding very intrusive. If there’s one thing I hate, it’s an interruptive interviewer. Why bring a guest on the show only to not let him talk?

      • Thank you. This post was based in a McLuhan-like criticism of the electronic surround, which is a subject I’m a bit more suited to write about. Perhaps I would be better received if I stuck to my element. I appreciate the kind words and the feedback.

    • “The object of dissident politics should be to strike at the root of what makes people like Brand and Tate possible in the first place.”

      As usual, you missed the point of Z-man’s missive. The point was 1) to not allow the Left to distract you by pointing out these types and challenging you to “demonstrate” your principles by denouncing them or defending them. 2) to a lessor point, to use them when their positions injure your opposition and to abandon them when their usefulness ceases.

      Your response is essentially to “die with (principled) dignity” in the political areas. It is the creed of losers. The “rules of engagement” have been set by the opposition. In reality, this is so in all wars. Principles are a “rich man’s game” as they say. In this case, principles are for those who have power to wield them. Hint, it not the Right or the DR.

    • “For a dissident to think he can win the internet is like an early Christian thinking that he can stride into the Roman Coliseum, before a bloodthirsty crowd expecting a gladiatorial show, and give them a sermon on temperance, and expect to escape alive from their blows.”

      And yet, the Pagan Roman Empire was supplanted by the Holy Roman Empire after two centuries of underground churches springing up across the empire (Christian symbology has been found circa 79 AD at Pompeii).

      So, that Christian didn’t win “the Roman internet” at the coliseum, but Christians eventually won the “underground internet” of their day and spread the religion through the empire. (And their victory lasted almost 2000 years in Europe with a few hiccoughs along the way)

      I get your point, but I don’t think you’re altogether correct. You don’t have to win every battle to win the war.

  23. How are these people relevant to the “no enemies to the right” crowd? Brand always was a leftist and now is a “dissident” leftist. Boebert is centre-right at best and in reality is just an actor hired by a talent agency.
    Tate is the most right wing of these three, but only if you ignore his porn business, and that’s really hard to ignore.

      • We never win anything so nobody’s helping, especially not these idiots.

        Tate is an even dumber repetition of the mainstream message that the curative course for Western man is to End Whiteness in himself, and Brand’s brand is the lie that late converts are uniquely trustworthy. (“Even this fool who believed nothing but lies until last weekend agrees with us!”)

        “No enemies to the right” means no enemies to the right OF YOU. It’s an admonition to relative moderates—Trump guys, for example—not to signal against extremist/vanguard/dissident weirdos, because if we have a future, that’s who’s going to figure it out.

      • A certain nameless individual once said that ex-communists made the best other nameless party recruits.

        This could well be the case with Tate’s followers. He hoovers up young white males disgusted with the gynocracy and the stacked deck so that he can make money off his grift. In no time at all the smarter ones are going to get used to the idea of being Beyond the Pale and many will drift towards this side of the river… And you know what the say about Converts.

        Rasputin helped the Bolsheviks just by existing. Mao actually had the cheek to thank a visiting Japanese prime minister for Japan’s having chewed up the KMT and for having so thoughtfully imported so much military hardware into Manchuria so that they could surrender it to the Russians — who promptly handed all the kit to Mao.

        Despicable People can be Useful in roundabout ways.

        Although I do think Brand is a good advertisement for bringing back crucifixion.

        • Rasputin was such a supreme genius that the Council of the Sanhedrin ordered Lord Rothschild to order the Secret Service Bureau [MI6] to order the S0d0mite Industrial Complex to ass@ssinate Rasputin.

          The successful mμrder of Rasputin is one of the very worst acts ever to befall Western Civilization.

          It’s on a par with the ass@ssination of Caesar.

    • It’s a virtual certainty Boebert would have been on OnlyFans if that had been around back when she was young and struggling.

  24. OT:

    Was watching sportsball yesterday from American streams.

    Every single commercial has very cringe “humor”, usually with somebody being singled out for doing something dumb. All of the “males” are uncertain and bumbling, even the POC’s (who make up most of the characters).

    If that’s a look into the elites psychology it looks like hell.

    • If you really like watching sportsball, go watch a HS football game in your area in person.

      Every single person involved in TV sportsball program hates you. You are financing them.

      • I shamefully admit that I listened to – and enjoyed – the Bills/Raiders game yesterday afternoon. I never ever watch TV but doing chores in and around the garage on a Sunday with the ballgame on the radio is, for me, a nostalgic pleasure. It’s a regional broadcast and the guys announcing seem based to me. No propaganda, just football. No dreadlocks, no celebratory dances after routine plays, no offensive commercials.

        • This should tell us something. For normal white men to enjoy professional football we must listen to rather than watch it.

        • It’s the institution itself. How many white women and children were walking around WNY yesterday wearing clothes that professed their loyalty to a pack of ferals? Who were dumping money into a league and its sponsors that make very clear their hatred of whiteness. Who were supporting owners who mandated the vax to attend games (although in a wonderful bit of karma, Mrs. Pegula is now a vax-veg)?

          You could listen to any number of things while doing work on a beautiful fall afternoon. Why choose the people who hate you?

    • Brought to you by Brawndo™, it’s got what plants crave…

      I can’t reliably speak to what Hell looks like; but the resemblance between AINO and Idiocracy is uncanny.

  25. The framing of today’s topic is that we are engaged in a war of words (narratives and critiques) and losing badly because the Right’s strategy is fundamentally flawed. That is old-think and we would do well to learn a lesson or two from the current war in Ukraine.

    The parties to this war began by using conventional tactics to inflict harm on the opposition in service to the goal of ultimate victory. For its part, Ukraine has been hurling “free” Western equipment and man-meat at the Russians and casualties be damned. In turn, the Russians are using an enormous artillery advantage to slaughter the duped meat in numbers not seen since WW2. This is old-think.

    But Russia has wised up and is now manufacturing cheap drones in huge numbers and using to them to devastating result. Very soon, there will be no place for bio-soldiers on the modern battlefield (life expectancy measured in minutes). This is new-think.

    And this is the essence of winning by any means necessary.

    • If what you wrote was true, Russia would have already won. Instead, tens of thousands of men on both sides of the conflict are being slaughtered while the frontline barely moves. Meanwhile, Russia is replacing the native population with record numbers of non-Russian immigrants and the same fate eventually awaits Ukraine too.

  26. Regarding principles vs. power, it dawned on me that part of the reason the “principled” conservaturds keep attacking our best fighters is because they have no power to attack anyone else. Without power, you cannot enforce principles. So the powerless side ends up having the constant infighting. The powerless can only attack other powerless people, and even then only with the help of the elites setting the moral framework within which those attacks occur.

    Without power you can’t have principles, because you cannot enforce them on those who oppose you.

    • Can be observed in corporate life, too.

      Very often the big show of fiscal belt tightening will be aimed at the least able to defend themselves rather than the most profligate or most unproductive.

      Fellate Up and Kick Down is just a fact of human existence. Reason 379 why real change only seems to happen during periods of collapse when Power is there for the Grasping (n., v.).

  27. “For those unfamiliar, Lauren Boebert is a ditzy female congressman from Colorado, who was recently seen getting felt up by a man not her husband at a movie theater.”

    Always good to see our leaders reach across the aisle.

    I’ll show myself out.

  28. Bobert is an easy case. She is the AOC of the right. Her cardinal virtue is that she’s banging hot. Her cardinal sin is that she’s dumb as a brick. She’s in the midst of a divorce so the fact that she’s out with a man who is not her husband is not particularly newsworthy, at least according to modern moral standards. The real problem is that the man she was groping is an Aspen-based Democratic party operative who served on both Obama’s campaign and Biden’s campaign, and purportedly is close friends with (((Adam Frisch))), who Bobert defeated narrowly after a recount in the 2022 election. Bobert is simply too stupid to understand that she was being set up by this man to be taken down.

    Colorado’s elections have been rigged since at least 2012, when Democrats implemented automatic voter registration and statewide mail-in voting. (I left the state almost six years ago, registered to vote in my new state, and informed Colorado that I left, and Colorado is still mailing out a ballot in my name every election cycle. Ditto my adult kids.) Bobert’s district was redrawn following the 2020 census to make it “competitive”, meaning that Bobert was supposed to lose. To her credit, she managed to eek out a victory by the slimmest of margins, most probably because there were insufficient numbers of ballots in the district to harvest, in turn because an insufficient number of illegal aliens reside in her district to be automatically registered to vote at the DMV.

    Bobert is an ally to be used as long as she’s useful, but she’s far too stupid to be anything more. She will lose in 2024. The Colorado Secretary of State, (((Jenna Griswold))) is a (((Soros)))-backed political operative who came out of the Obama administration’s “voter protection” office. Griswold will ensure there are sufficient numbers of ballots to harvest to snare a victory for the Democrats in 2024.

    • Thanks for the inside info. I found is hilarious that part of the “scandal” is Boebert was “caught vaping.” The horror, the horror.

      • Well, the adversary’s ability to use these weapons against Joe Normie remains effective, if gauged by their common use.

        It gets worse – in the ongoing defenestration of the degenerate Brand, the British slime rag Dirty Male, uh Daily Mail, runs headline about how the degenerate ‘forced his p&*^%$ down my throat…’

        Knowing the visual of a “teenager” would horrify the Normie readers, checking in for the endless thong shots the rag offers up Daily.

        No mention, say, of the fact that June was an entire month “celebrating” that very act, between males. And simply extrapolating, same appendage ‘shoved’ into another orifice, again “celebrated” —- during same ‘loving’ acts, prior or subsequent, who knows.

        And who does not know that these same loving acts are and were perpetrated against many male minors, again “celebrated” for a month.

        • “ Well, the adversary’s ability to use these weapons against Joe Normie remains effective, if gauged by their common use.”

          Hence the essence of today’s missive from Z-man. Our job is neither to condemn nor support Boebert, but rather to convince Joe Normie that such principles are a distraction to the cause. The Left has no such principles. Neither should we.

      • This is Denver. She was vaping THC. Thus the outrageous behavior. It’s legal in Colorado, but still illegal at the federal level, and she is a federal representative. I have many friends in Colorado who are fedgov employees and they are all subject to random drug testing. If they test positive for THC they are fired. Bobert failed to uphold minimum standards.

        Bobert is a moron. If Colorado had a Republican governor I would be among the voices calling for her to resign so she could be replaced with someone bearing an IQ above 90, but (((Polis))) would appoint a leftist Democrat, quite possibly (((Griswold))). Bobert is not worth defending but she’s a useful ally for the rest of her term, whereupon she fades to black.

        Quite by happenstance, I was seated at a dinner table next to Robert’s table at a lobbying event in early 2023. The song Sweet but Psycho kept running through my head.

    • Yes and no, maybe?

      Boebert (and AOC) are what you get when you push when you push women past their intellect and abilities. You take them out of their old mundane life, drop them into the fast lane…and the menstrual ones turn into sluts, and the menopausal ones turn into lunatics or psychopaths.

      This is not a cut against women… most men will fail in that rat race too. As in all things, women will just fail faster, and usually with more dire results.

    • “Her cardinal virtue is that she’s banging hot.”
      I think the word “virtue” is doing some heavy lifting here. If that is the best thing someone can bring to the table, don’t bother sitting down.

  29. Boebert is manufactured and she was installed in office for this reason. She’s the only Republican I know of in recent memory who has won — not lost — a week-long recount. She was trailing significantly on Election Night 2022, and then, over the course of the following week, slowly made up the difference with mail-in votes. Her Democratic challenger chose not to challenge the eventual results.

    Given how fanatically she is despised by the Left, that made little sense to me. She is more useful in office than out of it. Like several others.

  30. One problem with both Tate and Brand is that people on the right will desperately latch onto a celebrity who says things critical of the left. You have seen this with others who then start bashing everyone to their right. Simon Webb posted a video over the weekend offering qualified support for Brand and saying he thought it was unlikely Brand became a vaccine skeptic solely to give himself the ability to claim persecution from lefties when these charges against him were eventually made public. Guys like this are useful only to the extend they don’t turn around and bash us.

    • Exhbit A: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. The man’s a lunatic and conservatives are so desperate to have someone in their corner they latch onto someone who would put a bullet in them if they ran the air conditioning too long.

      • The man has helped create a coalition of crunchy liberal moms and conservatives against Big Pharma. I have never seen pushback on the CDC’s insane vaccine schedule since he entered the stage, and it’s not a coincidence. He is also far more dovish. True though, his environmentalism is typical leftist nonsense, as well as other things.

        If he’s throwing molotov cocktails at my enemies, I’ll encourage him. If he’s talking progressive nonsense, I’ll ignore him.

        • RFK Jr. has really limited utility to the right. Beyond supporting his right to platform access, I wouldn’t do anything to help him achieve actual power. I want him to like you said throw bombs at the left, but people need to remember he comes from a completely disreputable family and reflexively hates the right.

        • There’s something wrong with the guy, he reminds me of Jordan Peterson.

          In his book, Kennedy all but says outright that he doesn’t believe that HIV causes AIDS and that the homo Armageddon in the eighties was due to (Fauci-sponsored) AZT, a drug, Kennedy alleges, that had proven deadly in trials.

          Never mind whether all that is true or not, how come the usual suspects never use this against him?

          • If it is true, and the AZT component at least seems likely to be, they may be unable to use this against him lest it draw too much attention. To add to what I wrote earlier, there is limited utility to RFKJr. despite the fact he is a dangerous psychopath. Drawing attention to Big Pharma’s jihad against normality certainly falls into that category. But the utility is limited and people need always to bear in mind what a raving lunatic he is, even when right.

      • {sigh}. Does RFK Jr. help us or hurt us?

        Answer: he helps us because he divides the other side. Obviously. Which is why Biden has refused to give him security – Biden wants Kennedy dead.

        Seriously, we could just look at the people our enemies want dead, and support them, right?

        • Exactly. The advice to “listen and do the opposite” should be the first reaction to anything the Left says/does/recommends.

  31. Lauren Boebert is just the right’s Alexandria Occasional Cortex (to borrow Heartiste’s nickname). She’s just entertainment to be kept well clear of actual power.

    I don’t see either Russell Brand or Andrew Tate as bigger problems. Peter Hitchens was right about Brand — he contributes nothing useful. And even if he did, can’t be trusted. He should simply have been used as a cudgel — any time he said anything that appeared to agree with the dissident right, he’d be referenced thus: “even your boy, Russell Brand admits…” And yes, if he can be used to undermine the “Me Too” movement (more properly the Me only slept with Two, but I digress) go for it. But don’t ever embrace the fool.

    Tate was just bad news, full stop. He should have just been left alone to damage lefties in the manner of a bull running amok in a China shop. Don’t claim ownership of the bull — just let it wreak havoc until it is shot.

    No enemies to the right is a good rule of thumb, actually. But your enemy’s enemy is not always your friend. Sometimes you should just use and discard. That is something the left does all the time…

    The only rule of war is to win.

    • “And yes, if he can be used to undermine the “Me Too” movement (more properly the Me only slept with Two, but I digress) go for it.”

      The funniest MeToo thing I recall is when they were using #MeToo, until someone pointed out it could be pronounced “pound me too”. There is a billboard on a major highway near me for a sexual harassment law firm that still includes #MeToo in its ad. My wife and I laugh every time we pass it.

    • Celt Darnell: Excellently and succinctly put. Use whoever helps hurt the left. Do not trust, embrace, or allie with him – as you so aptly put it, use him as a ‘cudgel.’

      I despise the cuckservatard’s reflexive slobbering over every non-White putative White ally (Candace Owens, Clarence Thomas, ramasmarmy, etc.). I similarly despite the dissident right’s flirtation with Kennedy or Brand. Fling them at the other side.

      They are not allies, they are weapons. USE THEM. But then discard them and never, ever trust them.

      And, as Zman wisely notes, the only point of any of this is to gain power. My first choice vehicle for such is not engaging in the electoral process, but for those who feel compelled to do so, never forget the prime directive: Win. Then hang all your enemies and institute strong controls on a corrupted and debased White populace. Principles for the future come later.

  32. Saw some videos of NYers chanting things like ‘Close the border’ and ‘Send them home’ (iirc) over the weekend. Fox News cutting away from a protestor saying NY is awake, etc. The crown is laying on the ground. Don’t need a sword to pick it up, but I’m sure even reaching for it would be too aggressive for conservatives.

    • Picking up the crown is not who conservatives are. They will hand the sword to the Left, though, to kill the impure in their ranks. As for the incident you cited, much is happening organically that doesn’t require any assistance. If a terror attack or disease outbreak happens after the border was thrown wide open, there probably will be a violent reaction regardless of what we say or do, and this likely will be led by urban leftists against the Regime. It doesn’t get much better.

  33. ” If Russel Brand is a useful ally, then he is a useful ally. When he stops being a useful ally, then he stops being a useful ally. In politics, allies are a bus you ride to the next stop.”

    Exactly. Erdogan may be a cynical monster, but he is correct. Mass graves are filled with beautiful losers who thought their opponents were simply misguided. Darwin got quite a bit right.

  34. The first step in making distinctions is to recognize the difference between the real world and online. This sounds easy, but is very hard right now, maybe impossible for people born after a certain date. My generation—as Chuck Klosterman points out in his book on the 90s—was the last to really have childhoods and teen years before the net became ubiquitous, a given.

    What I think of Andrew Tate or Russel Brandt (or Tucker Carlson for that matter) matters a hell of a lot less to me than what my normie neighbor with two white kids who still believes in color-blind conservatism thinks of me, or how I can get him to change his thinking. Organic connections still matter, and the internet isn’t so much a loudspeaker as hall of funhouse mirrors.

    The ill-fated “alt right” showed that there were limits to what you can do with memes; even if they hadn’t flamed out they had already reached their limits. Normies protesting on J6 scared the people in charge more than guys with Tiki torches or Matt Heimbach with his Colonel Klink act. Zelensky’s winning the internet war (and getting an Oscar!) also shows that reality still matters more than anything. Psyops are only a small part of the war. William Gibson was right to call cyberspace (his coinage) a mutual hallucination. Put that together with another SF scribe’s old saw about reality being that which doesn’t go away even when you stop believing in it, and this conversation becomes even more moot.

    But yes, if I am in a firefight and someone wants to be my human shield, I am not going to be picky. Saddam Hussein accepted help from everyone from Fred Phelps at one point to Sean Penn later. Look at Boebert the way the Dems look at Fetterman (or Biden for that matter) as the plague-ridden corpse you launch with a trebuchet over the wall of your enemy’s castle. Shock jocks Opie and Anthony used to send a guy with a spastic colon to Occupy rallies just so the protestors would have to endure the stink when he made a booboo. I think they called him “shi*monster.”

    • Beautiful comment despite the graphic conclusion. People who think social media is real life have limited utility.

    • Look at Boebert the way the Dems look at Fetterman (or Biden for that matter) as the plague-ridden corpse you launch with a trebuchet over the wall of your enemy’s castle.


  35. Sexual improprieties are still the go-to blackmail method of the elites. They tried to get Matt Gaetz that way, Epstein Island was a massive sexual blackmail ring, the allegation against Trump were legendary, etc.

    For the longest time, the right has supported seemingly values oriented politicians like G.W. Bush, Reagan (ignoring his divorce), etc. Then a horndog like Trump comes along and throws it all out the window, acting like a high-status man in a pagan world, but gets voted for because even with all his improprieties, he doesn’t stab his constituents in the back. There’s a reason Traitors are in the worst circle of hell, and it’s because betraying your allies is far worse than having one night flings. Your average Joe Maga guy gets that, but our moral scolds do not.

    It will be interesting to see how long this sort of blackmail can work, as most of the population is rolling their eyes at this. Let’s be real, MLK was a total sexual degenerate, Harvey Milk a pederast who drove one of his victims to suicide, and Johnson famously whipped it out at a journalist one time. The eilte have always acted this way. Once the moral capital in these charges is gone, it will look the same as the J6 charges, pure political prosecution.

    • Barnie Frank’s basement bordello seemed excessive, even by the already-degenerated standards of that time. I don’t think anyone who voted for Boebert feels like this is a “Say it ain’t so, Joe,” moment. Trump’s win on abortion seemed to have shaken something loose for a larger cohort of normies. Politics should be transactional, even when it’s about morality, maybe especially when it’s about morality, as you might never get someone to agree with you, but can probably get them to trade horses with you.

    • The Gaetz affair was something else. The Regime missed the king for once and made itself a formidable and effective enemy. I agree blackmail has lost its utility in a time when basically every sociopath seeking political office has a sex tape floating around and possibly leaked it themself for the publicity. Coupled with epic misfires such as the one against Gaetz, the Regime likely will return to the tried and true tradition of straight up bribery. I think we are there now. Epstein may not have killed himself, but his usefulness was drying up. That may explain the hordes of loot in his accounts.

    • Trump comes along and throws it all out the window, acting like a high-status man in a pagan world, but gets voted for because even with all his improprieties, he doesn’t stab his constituents in the back.

      Doesn’t he? Maybe ask some of the J6 protestors sitting in jail how they feel about that.

      • Trump may not have stabbed his constituents but he surely chucked them under the bus from day one. Other than serving as a lighning rod, Trump accomplished nothing persisting. Well, unless you are one of the sleazoids he hangs out with and pardoned or you love your “free” clotshot or traded big pharma shares. Make Jizzrael Great Again!

      • True enough, he hasn’t vocally defended them. But legally there is not much he can do for them, unless by some miracle he can overcome the margin of cheating in 2024.

        • As George Soros has shown us, there’s definitely nothing a multi-billionaire can do to support people in the trenches or jail. That would be crazy talk.

    • Pomo heaumeau Michel Foucault, who almost certainly died of AIDS, infected God knows how many men in the San Francisco bathhouse scene in the first half of the 80s. And, even when he knew he had some sort of terrible STD, he refused to curtail his hedonism.

      A great icon of the Left, Foucault.

      Don’t hold your breath in the expecation that Leftists will ever hold their own to even the lowest bar of moral standards. Perhaps eschewal of morality comes so easily to Leftists because they really are nihilists whose only genuine psychological impulse is hatred of whitey.

    • To me this is a dividing line in the “dissidence”. I sympathize with Christianity and its sexual morals and I want them to be advertised as the norm. But I am not a Christian and seeing this infantile view of politics being used against them confirms to me I am in the right side. The reaction to the Boobert and Russell scandals is typical cuckstrianity.

      The left gets off scolding the right whatever cuskservatives do: they either agree to cancel Boobert and Crazy-brit regardless of how useful they can be or they admit to be “hypocrites” and then it seems all morals are valid if you dare to be strategical… as I said infantile logic.

      I see Brand got metooed because he might be becoming too effective with a modern political assassination. His past life was AOK to them for 16 years and just now they care. Today metoo must include the pedo label, even if a 16 year old is not a child and I can see a hornee groupie jumping at the celebrity just for fun. Again we are being infantile. To start, the accusations seem false so we can start by not believing them. But even if Brand slept with a couple of fans, big deal for a guy who totally looks like an hedonist and was playing one then and nobody cared.

      Boebert case is more ridiculous. I understand she was vaping and playing boobsie with another adult in a theater. LMAO, what are they, teenagers! Total nothingburger, but now we have to either throw her under the bus despite the things she had said that benefited us to prove we are righteous or admit we can be strategic, but the horror then we have to admit (supposedly) all morals to be false because we are not dumb.

      I say you can totally ignore both and judge them for their political utility and if they had sexual impasses we DGAF aout this does not means we are all now for sexual deviance and we cannot defend any morality again. I think we can totally forgive them and at the same time promote sexual mores that would be considered strict in the XIX century. I still believe in modesty, prudent sexual morals, and common sense that could be called Christian but IDGAF about those two “scandals”.

  36. “When he stops being a useful ally, then he stops being a useful ally. In politics, allies are a bus you ride to the next stop.” In other words, we might as well re-attempt a far right facist regime that serves whites. If winning and destroying our enemies is the only political solution, then who cares about principles, values and morality. I do get it Z, it’s your part of town versus mine, nothing has really changed all that much in human nature. So we can’t be left alone and have an apolitical society, nor can we just sit there and take this shit forever. If uniting young white men to defeat the forces of evil makes us evil, at least we survive the goyslop esg world bank homos, and attempt a new white nation, whatever it may turn out to be..

    • If you will recall, Hitler was briefly allied with a homosexual deviant named Ernst Röhm. But once ensconced in power, Hitler had Röhm along with his brown shirt associates purged, and then famously went on to send all German sexual degenerates to work camps. He could not have risen to power without allies of all kinds, and he was canny enough not to scare the monkeys too soon. We need to remember this.

      • Ernst “Scarface” Röhm became pissed @ Hitler because he thought Hitler was not implementing the true National Socialist revolution & was going to challenge him. During “The Night of the Long Knives” in 1934 Hitler moved the SS in to take care of business; the SS routed Röhm out of a Munich Hotel where he was with a couple of young boys (pedophile), stood him up against the wall & shot him.

        Hitler knew he was queer all along but Röhm served a purpose until he didn’t.

        • The leadership of the Reichswehr (the German regular army) was very displeased with Röhm’s plan to integrate his Sturmabteilung brownshirt militia with the Reichswehr to form a new, revolutionary “brown army.” The army basically told Hitler either Röhm goes or you do. Getting rid of Röhm and the SA leadership was the price Hitler paid for the army’s support of the Nazi regime.

    • Preaching to the choir there, bud. I don’t know if a fascist state is what we’re ultimately shooting at, but if fascistic tactics are necessary to obtain racial sovereignty and create an independent white state, then so be it.

      • Arguably we’re a fascist state now; Mussolini defined fascism as the “merger of corporate & political power”. FB? Big tech? YouTube? Et al. All big corps are all in on the DIE platforms & covering/kowtowing to/for “Biden”.

        We have Fascism now without the cool uniforms, great parades, & terrific music.

        • That’s to say unless your idea of a great fascist parade involves strap on dildos and rainbow flags with B52s music playing in the background.

          “Homofascism”. There I coined it.

        • You gotta hand it to the denizens of Clown World. The Wokies can transform even a fascist regime into something that is fake, gay, and retarded.

  37. As far as I know, Boebert, Brand & Tate aren’t pro-White, which makes rejecting them very easy.

    • Boebert got her start as part of a Israeli modelling firm. Not our friend. Like Z said though, the only good move is laughing at the left clutching their pearls. Do I want someone better than Boebert in that congressional seat? Of course. Let me know who he is and I’ll support him.

      • People on the right in that district should be proactive. Boebert barely won in 2022, she will almost certainly lose to a Democrat this time. Good luck to them beating her in a primary with someone who isn’t an establishment goon.

      • I take it that he’s saying that once the “useful ally” thing has run its course, it’s easy to walk away.

      • btp: Not really. Considering B, B & T’s big flaws, as Zman points out, it’s a dilemma for our side as to whether we should use them or not. I simply added the fact (as far as I know) that they aren’t pro-White, which adds to the dilemma. I didn’t offer an opinion as to whether we SHOULD reject them or support and use them.

  38. An interesting historical conservative is Otto von Bismarck. He brought in pragmatic programs to help Germans – e.g. healthcare & old age pensions. His motivation appears to be purely practical, the programs would actually benefit ordinary people and strengthen the country. That it undermined socialists was a bonus.

    The lesson is that dissidents need to have a pragmatic approach to politics. Write the “principles” once you gain power.

  39. Looks like Z-man is still working inside the mind of Michael Anton, with his latest in Claremont Review of Books — titled Modernity and its Discontents. No direct reference to that previous conversation, but it appears that that grappling match is still very much with MA …..

    • Anton has about come to grips with reality. It is difficult to make that final leap but he seems close. As an aside, he recently wrote THEY CAN’T LET HIM BACK IN, a very bright and insightful essay about why the Regime will not permit Trump back into office, and it acknowledges we are in a post-democratic West and the bad guys have won and likely will retain power until collapse. That’s quite an admission from someone who was a based but garden variety conservative until fairly recently. This fairly long excerpt from Anton’s review, which would not even have been printed by Claremont a decade ago, shows his evolution continues:

      “It’s a bit rich for Left and conventional Right alike to insist that the original American regime is still in place in toto and then shriek “anti-democratic insurrectionist!” at those of us who know that’s not so. (The author of the reviewed book) is not proposing to change the founders’ regime but to change its replacement. The main divide in conservative ranks today is between those who see clearly what the Left has done and those who deny it—and attack anyone to their right who notices. Say what you will about Patrick Deneen, he’s on the right—in both senses of that term—side of this divide.

      “Denial didn’t prevent the American regime from morphing into the present monstrosity, nor will it transform the beast back into the constitutional order conservatives insist they cherish. Still less will inconsistently exempting one regime out of the thousands that have existed—and fallen—throughout history preserve 1787 (or 1865) in perpetuity. America may have been and even still be exceptional in many ways, but to expect her to be exceptional in that way is to expect more than nature will or can ever deliver.”

      In keeping with the spirit of Z’s post today, welcome, Michael. About that 1865 bit, though…

      • Yes, Anton’s certainly sounding like a DR of late. But in his heart of hearts, is he also a race realist? As always, that is the final and most important hurdle to clear on one’s sojourn to reality’s eyrie.

        • Race realism is a tough leap because the Left’s propaganda about “hate” has been wildly successful despite its transparent absurdity; John Derbyshire, I think, coined the term “hate facts” and that is the most perfect description of this phenomenon ever. If Anton or anyone else comes to terms with the reality not being a matter of opinion or the result of emotion, they can take that final step. If they can’t make that distinction, it is nigh impossible for them. My guess is Anton is very close. Horseshoes and all, of course.

          • I admire Anton and his writing: He takes orders from no one, the way ConInc hacks do. However, his ripostes to Z were infantile and ad hominem; they amounted to “pulling rank”. Happily, Gottfried made short work of Anton’s position concerning ‘natural rights’ in their exchange in The American Conservative.

            All that said, if Anton just flat-out went race realist, he’d lose his gig at Hillsdale etc., and would maybe be looking for a double-wide to live in. He may see himself as “above” Z man in the pecking order of right-wing influencing, but he ain’t no Tucker: He probably is far from having the FU money necessary to just write what he actually thinks on the race question – which, sad to say, is the question of our age.

            Anton is kind of like Steyn. They know. But they have to make a living too. Z can make a living whether or not he does a blog and a podcast; he is Koestler’s hedgehog to Anton’s fox.

          • @stevew:

            I agree with all that. Anton was flex deflecting with Z and that was annoying, but he is a highly valuable voice. He is dissident right for all intents and purposes. Admitting the constitutional order is dead and gone and war is being waged against Heritage America is the most important river to cross. As I’ve written here before, the real problem remains the white Puritans and their attendant madness and cruelty, and if they can be checkmated, all their weapons–racial and ethnic minorities, AWFL’s, whatever, become immediately irrelevant and a peaceful resolution, likely some form of separation, possibly can be attained. It is far more important to stay in a prominent place and acknowledge Puritan whites are a clear and present danger rather than notate, for example, Shitavious and Shanika can be dangerously violent and stupid and genetically are prone to be. It is true and important but secondary to the most pressing issue.

  40. “The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.”
    … H. L. Mencken


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