Escape From Talos IV

One of the underappreciated aspects of political discourse is that the person arguing for a particular theory or ideology starts with a set of assumptions. Often, the assumptions are part of the arguer’s conditioning to the point where he no longer thinks about them, so he never mentions them. Progressives, for example, now assume equality is a morally good thing and an obvious goal of policy. They never bother to mention this, as from their perspective, it is manifestly obvious.

The exceptions to glossing over the assumptions are always on what passes for the political right in America. You see it in the back and forth between Christopher Rufo and Curtis Yarvin in that IM1776 post. Early on in his reply to Yarvin, Rufo states, “My conviction is that there is a logical structure to human nature and, consequently, a structure of political order.” This is a familiar claim to those familiar with the natural rights argument popular in some circles.

The basic argument is that there is human nature, by which they mean things that are true and observable about all human beings. Therefore, there must be things that are universal and true about how human beings interact with one another. Therefore, if we tease these truths out about the human condition, we can fashion a political order that results in the least amount of friction between the citizens. The assumption is that the closer we are to our nature, the happier we will be.

Like most assumptions that form the basis of a political theory, this assumption about human nature is never examined. Are there objective, quantifiable behaviors that are universal to all humans? Obviously, this is true. All humans, for example, work together for food and safety. We do not have written records for the hunter-gatherer phase of human development, but what we have tells us that humans cooperated within kin groups to collect food and defend the group.

It seems obvious that there are not only physical properties of humans that are universal, but that there are behaviors that are universal. Of course, this is also true of canines or arachnids, but no one would make these observations the basis of a political theory or a moral framework. In other words, even at this level, there is an unexamined assumption that we can create a list of things you ought to do from the things we can observe about the general nature of humans.

Putting that aside for a second, think about the things that are true about canines that define domestic dogs as a species. While there is a collection of properties that define the domestic dog, no one would confuse a Doberman with a Poodle. Everyone can quickly understand the difference between a border collie and a similar looking mutt from the local shelter. Even though the herding dog has the physical properties of a domestic dog, it is different from the other dog breeds.

If the domestic dog world ever produces the dog equivalent of Thomas Aquinas, he will have to contend with the fact that the herding dogs will be scandalized by sheep wandering around unattended, while the hunting dogs will think this condition to be the best way to order dog society. Even though both groups share a common dog nature, they will have naturally different views on the sheep question. This is a silly idea, but you can probably see where it is going.

This gets to another assumption that you see in the Rufo response. He asks, “What is the telos of your political system?” The assumption he is making is that any political system and therefore any political theory must include as a foundation item an explanation for the purpose of human society. This is an unexamined assumption inherited from Christianity. Humans have a purpose so human society must have a purpose and this is a measure of any political system.

What science tells us about human nature does suggest that there is a purpose to all human societies. That purpose is to increase the odds of the individuals in that society making it to sexual maturity and reproducing. Cooperation is all about safety so that the young can one day reproduce and pass on their genes, the genes shared by the group, onto the next generation. The cause and purpose of human society is the preservation and propagation of our genetic material.

How that is done is not universal. Again, this is observationally true. Humans around the world have evolved different ways of organizing themselves to increase their safety and security, just as their physical form evolved to their environment. Africans do not have black skin for no reason. Just as the environment selected for certain physical features over others, it selected for different organizational behaviors. The telos was the same, but the implementation cannot be the same.

There is something else science can tell us about human nature. Once humans started to settle down and distinct groups started to cooperate with one another, the selection pressures changed. As Greg Cochran explained in The 10,000 Year Explosion, settled life rewards and punishes different human behaviors than pastoral life and especially hunter-gatherer life. That means the organizational behavior is not entirely learned, but a part of our genetic code that defines every human.

This is the logical defect of the natural rights argument. The fans of this make assumptions about nature that are counter to what we actually know about nature and what we know about nature argues against their universals. Therefore, the assumption upon which they rest their arguments are false. This leaves them with denying biology, replacing nature with the Christian idea of God, or arguing in favor the strict segregation of people based on race.

Note that the egalitarians face the same dilemma. Whether it is Marx or the new head of NPR, their assumptions about the natural equality of man run counter to what science tells us about human nature. The communist got around this by blaming economics for oppressing some and elevating others. Today’s woke crowd takes a much simpler route by defying biological reality. The transgender stuff is a way of denying biological reality by denying fundamental properties of humans beings.

Also note that natural rights arguments should be placed alongside things like Marxism, libertarianism, and anarchism. What all of these share, in addition to the denial of biological reality, is the egalitarian assumption. Lurking underneath all of these political systems is the assumption that all men are naturally equal. They also assume that something unnatural is the cause of the inequality. The point of their systems is to restore equality by restoring the “natural” order.

The final point to be made here is that all of the political theories of the last three hundred or so years suffer from the same defect. The theory always rests on assumptions that either go unexamined because they cannot be evaluated, or they go unexamined because the result would negate the theory. The last three centuries of Western thought has been a game of finding a suitable replacement for God as the telos of human society and the results have been as predicted.


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Tom K
Tom K
1 month ago

Natural rights don’t exist. This was and is just a convenient fiction. It was used to justify the rebellion of the American colonists against the British crown. Nevertheless, there is an inchoate instinct or yearning in human beings for fairness, i.e. equal treatment. This is part of human nature. But for most societies, this was reserved for in-group members and for the rights of one group against another. These societies had no equal care for outsiders. It’s only Northwestern Europeans who have elevated this into a universal principle, probably due to the influence of Christianity coupled with the peculiar concern… Read more »

Bilejones
Member
1 month ago

“Today’s woke crowd takes a much simpler route by defying biological reality. The transgender stuff is a way of denying biological reality by denying fundamental properties of humans beings.”

Once you accept blacks can be White, it’s a small step for men to be women.

Dave the Sheep Farmer
Dave the Sheep Farmer
1 month ago

As a sheep farmer I liked your analogy about dogs and sheep. Another behaviour of sheep that might interest you is that if you put two breeds of sheep into one paddock they will naturally self segregate.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Dave the Sheep Farmer
1 month ago

Hm. Sounds like rationality is part of “sheep nature,” too.

p
p
1 month ago

Comment, on illegal immigration–could we not assign each one a few acres and a mule in some relatively fertile area and see what they make of it, rather like our 1600’s Scots-Irish-English immigrants? And on a lighter note, happy Paul Revere Day (last stanza of poem below): So through the night rode Paul Revere; And so through the night went his cry of alarm To every Middlesex village and farm, — A cry of defiance and not of fear, A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, And a word that shall echo forevermore! For, borne on the… Read more »

Apex Predator
Apex Predator
Reply to  p
1 month ago

You’d have garnered a few upvotes had you just left the poem and not gone full retard in the opening. These people have -plenty- of lebensraum in their home countries. What they don’t have is the raw gray matter and IQ to do anything with it. Magic dirt—> isn’t. Did you read nothing in this essay from Z?

Likewise, I don’t think ‘Paulo Rivera’ would ride through any villages or farms nor put himself at any risk for anything. So your poem, while lovely, rings very hollow w/ the opening statement.

Charlemagne
Reply to  p
1 month ago

Let em’ farm Mexico.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

Excellent essay. I believe genetic survival is the purpose of society and that any traits that are detrimental to that are to be avoided. Since I don’t have a lot to add to the essay because I think it hit the nail om the head, let me about unfortunate traits for survival; it can be extremely hard to say what those traits are. Let’s use big cats as an example; surely two of the most impressive big cats we know from the fossil records are the various saber tooths and the American lion. The American lion was something like a… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

Nature itself machinates against the white man. Since when you breed a white man with a wog, you get a wog

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

Moran ya Simba: “I believe genetic survival is the purpose of society and that any traits that are detrimental to that are to be avoided.”

Allow me to introduce you to, “The Furry”.

In Lily White GOP Mormon Utah, no less:

https://tinyurl.com/54rzeb7n

All hail The Furry.

===============

Note that if you remove an “r” from The Furry, you get The Fury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bphHHR2aVM0

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
1 month ago

So we must be doing something enormously wrong in terms of survival
We are Brother and most are content to keep doing it…

BasedTeuton
BasedTeuton
1 month ago

As to replacing God, that’s a fair assessment. But does it take into account the passage of time? America may not have lasted as long as Rome but it did manage to persist albeit in reduced form for about 200 years. If you can stretch your secular empire out to last as long as your pious one isn’t that sufficient? Because every empire/culture eventually breaks down, so even if it’s not as good as a religious one could it be “good enough”?

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  BasedTeuton
1 month ago

America as an empire was an astonishing success. Anything that becomes, even for five minutes, the global hegemon, is not a failure.

But I am wondering if imperial success is similar to saber teeth on a big cat (pls see my comment above); something that looks really impressive but is actually a survival sink. Maybe the smart survival move is to be inconspicuous, unimpressive and highly agressive on the home turf. The Congo and Afghanistan are not going to be demographically flooded anytime soon

Hokkoda
Member
1 month ago

You have to demonstrate an outrageous lack of self awareness to be both a progressive and a person who claims to believe in human equality. There is nothing in their entire history to demonstrate they want something other than a hierarchical system with chosen few at the top. As Orwell put it, a system where some are more equal than others. All of these theories have a specific intention: to provide a framework for who will be in charge and by what authority. You see this even in small affairs like the local HOA board or a campus student government.… Read more »

Pozymandias
Reply to  Hokkoda
1 month ago

“a person who claims to believe in human equality” I don’t necessarily see a contradiction between being basically an authoritarian elitist and *claiming* to believe in equality. It’s just a matter of adopting the kind of rhetoric that is most useful. Really, as soon as Western man abandoned all his concepts of nobility and of divinely inspired order some sort of crude socialist ideology was baked into the cake. Promising the mass of stupid people that you will loot “the rich” and hand over their wealth to the masses is simply the easiest political gambit in a morally bankrupt society.… Read more »

DaBears
DaBears
Reply to  Pozymandias
1 month ago

In China, the entire Biden family would wear forced signs enroute to the public execution grounds. In Russia, there would be no signs, just a bullet in the neck down at the 24 Kuznetsky Most Street. Had they thieved Iran, the Bidens would be hoisted up slowly by crane. Here in the US, our historians will write up the Bidens like they were the dead Kennedys’ Camelot restored.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  DaBears
1 month ago

DaBears: “Here in the US, our historians will write up the Bidens like they were the dead Kennedys’ Camelot restored.”

Uhh, that would be, “(((our historians)))”.

ray
ray
1 month ago

Christians assume that human nature, and the entire planet, are fallen and flawed. Moderns (post-Enlightenment liberals, especially women) believe that human nature is good, and that external elements must be corrected (e.g., political systems, social justice). These conditions occurred following the rebellion of the woman — who wanted to be Equal with God, hmm — and the simpery of the man, who obeyed the woman instead of obeying God. Christians — whatever remnant yet remains amongst the worldly chaff of Churchianity — also reject all aspects of egalite and equality and acknowledge that all beings, including humans, are hierarchic. Following… Read more »

Disruptor
Disruptor
Reply to  ray
1 month ago

Christians have fallen for baloney, and they can’t get up.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  ray
1 month ago

ray: “the man obeys the Son”

Could you expound?

Maybe a typo?

Is “the Son” supposed to be Jesus?

ray
ray
Reply to  Bourbon
1 month ago

Bourbon —

Father has many, many sons but only one is chosen Son — Christ, Jeshua of Nazareth in this world.

Stranger in a Strange Land
Stranger in a Strange Land
Reply to  ray
1 month ago

as for madness & disaster there is certainly no lack down through the ages

Dutch Boy
Dutch Boy
Reply to  ray
1 month ago

The Christian believes in natural duties rather than natural rights. For example: everyone has a duty to protect himself and his family, hence, in modern times, he must have recourse to firearms. Such recourse can have some reasonable limitations (e.g., restricting access from felons) but cannot be denied in general. Since procreation is necessary to preserve the human race, those who choose to marry have a duty to procreate which cannot be denied. Non-procreative unions (e.g., homosexuals) enjoy no such protections, nor do casual, non-married sexual unions. They can be forbidden and regulated to the extent that such regulation does… Read more »

Xman
Xman
1 month ago

Nobody understood the problem with the natural rights tradition more clearly than Hobbes. He understood that there could be no universal religious agreement, and that established religions were established by the force of the sovereign. The first part of his solution was to admit that yes, all men ARE created equal — insofar as they have the equal ability to kill each other and steal from each other and create a “war of all against all.” The second part of his solution was for these “equal” men to freely enter in to a (one-way) Social Contract and create artificial inequality… Read more »

Intelligent Dasein
Intelligent Dasein
Member
1 month ago

There is no such thing as “biological reality.” The word “reality” does not take or need any modifying adjectives. Reality is already inclusive of all things that exist, so there is no possibility of specifying the term that isn’t redundant. People only use this construction when they are attempting to make some kind of tendentious argument that claims a higher arity of “reality” for their hobbyhorse than what its nature really warrants. Thus, we hear a lot from HBDers about “biological reality” and we hear sometimes (rarely) from spergs, quants, and atheists about “physical reality,” but you never hear a… Read more »

Zulu Juliet
Zulu Juliet
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

Fun with Trolls. “The question is not whether temperamental differences exist among humans/dogs, but whether those differences are of such a nature that they deserve [political] consideration. The answer is decidedly that they do not.

WRONG!

I would not put a Pitbull around an infant. I would have less trouble with a Maltese. I would not bring Somalians to Portland, Maine. I would have less trouble with Serbians.

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Zulu Juliet
1 month ago

And here’s where you guys go wrong. While you’re in the clouds spending all kinds spinning intellectual explanations for the world that we live in, you forget the reality on the ground. Somalians aren’t necessarily bad people. In fact, not knowing much about the particular history of that region, I think you can logically assume that they are related both biologically and culturally to Ethiopians, who adopted Christianity before Europeans did. Christianity may or may not be your baseline for cultural compatibility, but in terms of similarity and cultural ways and value systems, as it relates to different groups of… Read more »

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

“Somalians aren’t necessarily bad people”

They probably are, though.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Jack Dodson
1 month ago

Somalians who are good (compared to other Somalians) may desire to leave Somalia which, judging by their emmigation, is not good, but are so alien to the recent 10k evolved nature of whites they find themselves lacking in this new environment and, as with American blacks, is resented with the considerable encouragement of our own spiteful elite, which we are not prepared to reject due to our altered nature of cooperation. Democratic equality is the sauce that delivers the poison. Garet Garret–To the revolutionary mind the American vista must have been almost as incredible as Genghis Khan’s first view of… Read more »

Mike Tre
Mike Tre
Reply to  Jack Dodson
1 month ago

Are they even “people” at all?

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

I’ve been at this place a long time and if there’s anything the vast majority of us understands, it’s “the reality on the ground.”

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Wolf Barney
1 month ago

But do you? I was sitting at McDonalds once doing some paperwork to get out of my home dungeon. Table behind me had a few high schoolers. They were joking about being Somalian. Dressed normal, acted much better than our home grown blacks. The girl even sounded like a little like a “Valley Girl.” It’s easy to be taken aback by backwards people who don’t bathe and wear headwraps, but does that capture the entire story? I think not. Here in Minneapolis II, Somalis are even starting to work their way into politics. Of course I laugh at the Somali… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Wolf Barney
1 month ago

Tempo, I don’t doubt that many of the imported Somalis are a cut above your typical ghetto feral. Not exactly a high bar. Regardless, most everyone, even murderous psychopaths, are nice and agreeable 98-99% of the time. So your experience at the next booth in McDonald’s is irrelevant.

What is the point of a small number if one does not intend to turn it into a large number?

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Way too subjective. While claiming that you oppose high-falutin philosophy because it is too abstract and divorced from reality, you simply argue for subjectivity without the jargon. A house divided comes to mind.

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Eloi
1 month ago

Maybe, maybe not. It seems to me that humans thrived as hunter-gatherers. Subjectivity, having your wits about you, intuition, are all important traits to survive and thrive as one.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

You may have a point in that Somalis might not be bad people. IQ aside, their problem is that they are incompatible. That might be purely an acquired trait, sure, but until that trait goes away, their culture simply does not work with ours.

I agree that culture is way too complex and fickle to be primarily genetic. But because of the way culture perpetuates itself, it might as well be genetic.

sentry
sentry
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

“Some peasant in Africa with a bone through his nose wearing a grass skirt isn’t necessarily an imbecile because he neither has the experience nor the cultural background information to do well on standardized tests. Sometimes people need time to acclimate to the way things are done in another society before you can expect performance on things like tests.” Opposed to the am’rican africans who are indistinguishable from whites in their iq test results. We all know if whites disappear from USA, acclimatized blacks will maintain the infrastructure just as well as whites did, I mean it’s obvious just by… Read more »

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  sentry
1 month ago

Are Russian cities really better than American cities? That couple who moved to get away from trannies was a little disappointed with real life in Russia.

Of course we in the Balkans are the West Virginia of the Slavs, so it may not be a direct comparison, but while life there isn’t awful, it certainly isn’t as good as here. Not yet, anyway. I compare what I see in the cities to what we call the Hilltop. Lower middle class whites. Certainly not awful, but not so pretty to look at either. (There are exceptions of course.)

sentry
sentry
Reply to  sentry
1 month ago

don’t see russian cities in in most dangerous cities in the world list, but there’s a lot of US cities.

but you’re welcome to move into the projects, it’s cheap and there’s lots of acclimatized blacks there for you to befriend.

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Let me tell you a story about IQ. Most people would agree that you need a high level of intelligence to be an NFL Quarterback, right? They were laughing at CJ Stroud, high performing of the Houston Texans, because he had a low score in the intelligence tests the NFL makes these draft prospects think. He scored in the 19th percentile or something like that. Turns out he has test taking anxiety. Whatever, you can have ADD, dyslexia or maybe even the written word moves too slowly for your brain to process. So what you score maybe may be a… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

TempoNick: Sweet Iesu, you really are going to trot out every standard trope. “The tests are biased.” “He has anxiety.” “They just have different habits.”

Let me strongly urge Zman to please make the troll go away, and urge other commenters not to respond. It only encourages him to pretend he’s having an intellectual discussion – like Sailer’s court Jew and Asian.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Bullshit. Test-taking anxiety is just another means of excusing stupidity. When I took the GRE–back in 1994, before it was dumbed down–I was petrified because if I did poorly there was no way I’d get into grad school and be able to pursue my dream–bloody fool that I was–of becoming a history prof. I was so nervous that I was shaking when I took that test. But did that test anxiety cause me to bitch the test? Not a bit of it. I blew the dam’ thing out of the water. If you’re bright you can answer the questions and… Read more »

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

I don’t know. Is this supposed to be a white nationalist page? I’ve been following it off and on for years and it is edgy, but I never thought of it as a place exclusively for skinheads to gather. I doubt that the host does either. To me this is about being real and the reality of what I say has more truth than not. If you show a Rorschach to a goat herder from Kazakhstan, do you think he’s going to know what to do? He’ll probably tell you to stop wasting his time and go screw yourself. Exercising… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Utter bullshit. I took the GRE back in 1994, before it was dumbed down on behalf of diversity, and I was absolutely petrified. If I did less than exceptionally well on that test, I would not get into grad school and have an opportunity to pursue my dream of becoming a history prof–bloody fool that I was. The pressure I placed on myself was very intense, and when I sat down to take the test, I was literally shaking. So, because of test anxiety, I bitched the GRE, right? Not a bit of it. I blew that sucker out of… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

TempoNick: How quaint that you repeat the “it’s not race, it’s culture” fallacy here, when it has been definitively stated and agreed (by both Zman and commenters) that culture is downstream from genetics. The problem IS the people – and their genetics and the culture ensuing therefrom – AND the number. They are alien in mien, thought, and deed, and none of them belong here. And yes, certain cultures – and genetics – are demonstrably inferior based on criteria as diverse as economic efficiency and production, political and social representation and order, and personal freedom of thought, speech, and association.… Read more »

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

“The problem is not “necessarily” the people, it’s the number. Small numbers are fine. Large numbers are what gives you problems.” This can’t be a serious comment… 7.5% of our population is responsible for nearly all murder and rape. It’s even less than that if you factor in the age ranges. Don’t give me this bullshit about small numbers. Rotten people are bad, whether you have 10 of them or 100,000 of them, the vast majority of them are going to behave the same. Only the scope of their behavior changes with the numbers. Think about what you said –… Read more »

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Tired Citizen
1 month ago

Let me tell you another story and I don’t know where this fits into the discussion, but one of my cousins-in-law is a farmer in Iowa. He goes to Africa to hunt game all the time. Here’s what observation when he goes there is that blacks are nothing special there athletically like they are here. They’re average just like everybody else. In other words, they weren’t shoving their doctors, lawyers, teachers and engineers on the slave ships. They gave us their most physically capable people. People who could do the work that they were being purchased for. Maybe the subset… Read more »

Guest
Guest
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

You guys kill me.
Around the fire in 2045:
Thanks for that ID.
Ok you’re up next Tempo. Can you expound on his thoughts.

Just kidding. Frank get the rope I tire of this.

Filthie
Filthie
Member
Reply to  Zulu Juliet
1 month ago

I wouldn’t have a problem at all with pitbulls and kids. If we look at the numbers, Cocker Spaniels are the noggers of the dog world and most likely to indulge in unprovoked attacks. The same attacks on pitbulls is exactly the same as the one on gun ownership. If we look at the pitbull attacks and study them, definite patterns emerge. The vast majority of vicious dogs are owned by males in the 18~24 age bracket. The vast majority of them have criminal records or are otherwise ‘known to law enforcement”. The vast majority of pitbulls involved in unprovoked… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Filthie
1 month ago

Cockers more likely than pits to attack unprovoked? Pffft. Please. The top just blew off my BS detector, just like it does when I encounter the tripe dispensed by big media.

XLOVELI
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

There is a lot of truth to what you say about language. But it depends on how you look at it. When a normal person says he “ain’t seen nothing” technically that’s a double negative that means he *has* seen something. But the force of the double negative adds up to a powerful NO. It’s the same with biology, Intelligent Dasain. Talking about biological reality fulfills a need in language, and that makes it valid. ∆

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

A few thoughts: 1) While I agree with the concept of concrete reality, would you not agree that perception of reality results in that need to at least appreciate that what we label “reality” features, partly, from subjectivity? The perception of color writ large illustrates my point. While I do not argue for solipsism or nominalism, accepting some level of subjectivity is necessary to approximate “reality” as we experience it. And, mind you, I just referenced Johnson’s appeal to the stone yesterday or the day before. 2) If the cause is not genetic, what would you label? To further clarify,… Read more »

Intelligent Dasein
Intelligent Dasein
Member
Reply to  Eloi
1 month ago

I would agree that reality is objective and that we perceive it subjectively, yes. I think that’s pretty clearly the case. I would hastened to add, however, that although perception is necessarily subjective, the reality that we perceive subjectively is objective reality. We are capable of grasping things in their real essence even though we do not have Godlike knowledge of them exactly as they are. To your second point, i.e. whether human differences should be characterized as genetic or not, my view on this question is that it is baited and therefore it needs to be defused somewhat before… Read more »

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

The question was not baited. I believe in an elan vitale or some other ineffable idea. I agree about the core assumption of HBD as materialism (I would specifically qualify as physicalism). But, I would also suggest that the physical processing of sensory data is impacted, and thus the subjective experience, by the genetic scaffolding you label. I have no need of the biology lesson, but, since you mentioned the subject, I would argue that what you call scaffolding is inaccurate, and that code is a better word. I understand your point is that the “code” is used by some… Read more »

sentry
sentry
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

“There is no such thing as “biological reality.”

You crack me up.

From Ancient India/Egypt to present day west, the trend is always the same.
Light skinned folk create high society, dark skinned folk come in, population changes it genetic makeup, country becomes shithole.

You’ll never hear of the opposite happening.

Whites and east asians go to to Dubai = futuristic city
Whites go to Am’rica = industrial empire

Arabs & blacks go to White countries = Watch yo’ kis, watch yo’ mama cause they be raping everybody.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  sentry
1 month ago

The Hiroshima/Detroit meme springs to mind.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

Oooh, I can play too. There was a man walking along who heard a loud BANG, followed a fraction of a second later, by the sight of a large store window suddenly shattering. Everyone around him suddenly became very agitated and started ducking and running to get behind various obstacles and out of the main street. Our man remained calm though. He knew better than to affirm the consequent. Windows, you see, break all the time for all sorts of reasons, and lots of things make a loud bang sound. There’s no reason to invent a narrative about anyone on… Read more »

cg2
cg2
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

What’s wrong with the “the tired old “dog argument”?
Within 60 seconds of putting my sister-in-law’s Corgi in the fenced back yard with my 50 pound doodles, the little demon had them whimpering in the corner. Corgi’s bred to herd and Doodle’s bred to love.

Filthie
Filthie
Member
1 month ago

“This is the logical defect of the natural rights argument. The fans of this make assumptions about nature that are counter to what we actually know about nature and what we know about nature argues against their universals.” ——————————————————————————— Is it, now? Not saying you’re wrong, Z. This is big brain stuff and I am biased by my religious background. It is entirely possible that I am misunderstanding you… but… here goes: If you accept that the only purpose for Man is to eat, sleep, excrete, fight and reproduce like all the other animals, I could accept your argument. But… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Filthie
1 month ago

I was more or less with you right up until the end there.

Cain had God dead to rights. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” If that was His intent, He could have just replied, “Of course you are!”, but, no, His answer is just that He knows what Cain did.

I think Christianity has long taken the wrong lesson from that. If anything, it should be closer to the Prime Directive than White Man’s Burden.

Filthie
Filthie
Member
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

I am not happy with this line of thought either Steve and readily admit I could be full of beans. There are any number of cans of worms that must be opened up and sorted out as you point out. God may not have answered Cain’s question directly but He did say that he knew what Cain had done – and that it was understood that what he had done was wrong. What does being your brother’s keeper actually mean? To some it means looking after the weak and impoverished; yet we have done that in spades for blacks as… Read more »

fakeemail
fakeemail
1 month ago

One of the most striking aspects of libs and other sundry moderns is their REFUSAL to acknowledge the existence of any sort of biological reality in humans. It’s all social construct. We are all “nurtured” into existence and our bodies, minds, and spirits our made of 100% nurture. If there is any sort of material bodily matter, it’s all the same between races and sexes. We’re all naturally good, and if somebody was ever bad it was because of a bad system put in place by a “racist.” I’ve long ago stopped wasting my breath debating. They cannot hear nor… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  fakeemail
1 month ago

And yet…CELEBRATE DIVERSITY, or else! But we all know Leftists are completely unconcerned with their own hypocrisy, inconsistency and illogic.

Wolf Barney
Wolf Barney
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Celebrate diversity!…..but don’t go too far by pointing out the diversity in test scores, behavior, criminality, impulsiveness, etc……

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

“Bake the cake” is the new “celebrate diversity!”

Zulu Juliet
Zulu Juliet
Reply to  fakeemail
1 month ago

“I’ve long ago stopped wasting my breath debating. They cannot hear nor see.”

They can can see and hear the Television. Regardless, you are correct not to waste your breath; You cannot overcome years of relentless programming from kindergarten to the evening news.

Severian
1 month ago

You’ve nailed the thing that bugs me most about this “natural rights” stuff. It is explicitly designed to take God out of the picture. It has to be. It comes from a very specific historical moment, the Thirty Years’ War, in which Europeans finally realized that it is impossible to win a religious war (the Thirty Years’ War is the culmination of an entire charming period of more than a century that pros shorthand as “the Period of the Wars of Religion”). IF the ruler’s legitimacy rests on his being anointed by God — as was the case for 1400… Read more »

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

It is hard to imagine a more profoundly religious belief than natural rights, hence we are heretics subject to a digital (at best) auto de fe.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

Espousing a different religion isn’t the same thing as heresy. The latter, in the eyes of prelates, is a far more serious offense.

Severian
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

But that’s the thing: Lutheranism WAS heresy to Catholics, and vice versa. It’s only after the Peace of Westphalia (and all the “natural rights” type of stuff encoded in it) that one could say “they’re different religions.” That’s why there was no other way to end the Thirty Years’ War — European monarchs could, and frequently did, cut deals with the Infidel Turk. But you cannot show heretics even a hint of mercy.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Since no one is arguing for reform radical equalitarianism, you are correct.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

The atheist formulation of natural rights, yes. But natural rights implicit in half of the 10 Commandments. Thou shalt not kill/steal/bear false witness/covet. Inherent in the notion of stealing being wrong is the notion of property and ownership. Even the Golden Rule and the Second Great Commandment are generalizations of natural rights.

It’s not so much a rejection of God’s Law, but an adaptation of God’s Law for those who don’t believe in God.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

“Commands” and “rules” are not “rights.” They tend to be quite the opposite.

Severian
Reply to  Jack Dodson
1 month ago

Agreed. Commandments are all about the individual. They come in the form of “Thou shalt not.” “Natural rights” can all be restated as “The government shalt not.” Big, big difference. Truly Western political philosophy emerged after the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, and for 500 years or so it revolved around the question of “How shall the Italian city states preserve their de facto liberty against the de jure rule of the Holy Roman Emperor?” Milan is in Lombardy; Lombardy is part of the HRE; but Milan is not going to subordinate itself to the Holy Roman Empire no… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

“Natural rights” can all be restated as “The government shalt not.” Ah. I see now the misunderstanding. Natural rights do not in any way involve government. They only involve how one person is “allowed” to interact with another. That includes a person claiming to have some authority over you by dint of him wearing the silly hat of government. No one has a natural right to life. You can’t very well shake your fist at the floodwaters and demand that it spare you because of your rights. What you actually have is nothing more, nothing less, than the right not… Read more »

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

Philosophy—not the life advice kind but the tradition starting with Greece—is Our Thing and it has been for a long time, so we’ve lost the sense that it’s a very weird way to talk about politics. Other people’s polities don’t talk about principles and axioms and “human nature” and crap because they do not and probably cannot imagine that actual observable hierarchy is justified by or subject to another invented invisible hierarchy *of words*.

Globohomo is a reversion of governmentality (ugly word) to incontrovertible, unreflective will—a targeted cure for the disease of Enlightenment (whiteness). It’s right-wing!

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Hemid
1 month ago

Globohomo is pretending. That’s why it’s satanic.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

Spitballing: they replaced religion with reason but kept the universality, which is what they were fighting over. Fast forward a couple of centuries, you get devastating wars over ideology.

Europe likes to destroy itself over the Truth, apparently. We Americans brought the proclivity with us.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Paintersforms
1 month ago

I guess universality is kind of baked into reason, as it is in Christianity to a great extent, but not necessarily religion as a whole. Seems significant, idk.

Pozymandias
Reply to  Severian
1 month ago

I’m content to admit that ultimately there’s going to be some mystical juju that justifies the political order. Some forms of juju are better than others too. High Church Christianity is better than Congolese or Haitian Voodoo. Also some political orders are “more right” than others. Whatever you call whatever Saddam’s Baath dictatorship was worse than the government of Texas for example. When choosing a socio-religio-political juju you need to have an idea of what kinds of behaviors you want to encourage and discourage and how “high” the level of civilization you want. Obviously there are certain forms of juju… Read more »

Mow Knowname
Mow Knowname
1 month ago

While awaiting doggie Thomas Aquinas, pick up a copy of Chesterton’s “Thomas Aquinas”. It is a Cliff’s notes version of some of the philosophy our host references.

Eloi
Eloi
1 month ago

The problem with the opening assertion you cite (Rufo’s assertion of an order to humanity) is that he never genuinely investigates this order. He, as Z often notes, assumes the morality of the progressive without assertion. I, as I often note, point out the failure to employ inductive reasoning. Any reasonable person, objectively observing the behavior of groups of humans and drawing general principles inductively, would learn two things: 1) Different groups are different. 2) Some are better than others. This is why I call this era the death of inductive reasoning. All the big moral questions are answered by… Read more »

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  Eloi
1 month ago

Yes. Assertions based on emotion are seen as truths now. This will not stand because it cannot stand. Reality can be mocked but it remains reality. We live in a profoundly religious age and it will lead to darkness.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
1 month ago

You sound more open to evolutionary psychology than I once thought, Z.

“Humans around the world have evolved different ways of organizing themselves to increase their safety and security, just as their physical form evolved to their environment.”

Evolution indeed is more than genetic mutations. Behavior evolves as well, lest peoples die. Group strategies are necessary.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Jack Dodson
1 month ago

Group strategies are necessary…
Yes yes they are I wonder if the dissidents will wake up to that fact before it’s to late…

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
1 month ago

Maybe I’m too harsh but when I see rufo use these big fancy words, I’m like:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6UI79pLEM&pp=ygUUVGhlcmVzIHRoYXQgZmFnIHRhbGs%3D

TomA
TomA
1 month ago

A very, very, very hard fact of nature. Civilization kills off evolutionary culling and thereby the weak and stupid multiple without end. And in an environment of affluence and plenty, the most effective survival mechanism for the weak and stupid is to become a True Believer and rely upon the generosity of the productive. The deluded crusader who believes that his truth is the only truth is a real and present danger because he lacks the mental flexibility to adapt to changing conditions. He becomes a dependent parasite as opposed to an innovative problem solver. In our present state of… Read more »

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  TomA
1 month ago

“The parasite is stupid and his survival depends on remaining stupid. He cannot be “cured” with words, no matter how persuasive. There has to be a gauntlet that incentives improvement. In the natural environment of our ancestors, stupid got you dead at a young age.”

Truer words have never been spoken.

imbroglio
imbroglio
1 month ago

“As Greg Cochran explained in The 10,000 Year Explosion, settled life rewards and punishes different human behaviors than pastoral life and especially hunter-gatherer life. That means the organizational behavior is not entirely learned, but a part of our genetic code that defines every human.” I don’t see that the second sentence follows from the first nor that the desire/compulsion to pass on one’s genes via reproduction is inherent in human nature. This sounds like post hoc ergo propter hoc. Maybe babies simply result, on occasion, from intercourse. Also the liberal ideology presents equality as an ideal not as something inherent… Read more »

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  imbroglio
1 month ago

Whether the baby survives, or at least enough of them, determines whether the tribe does. Genetically encoded behavior is necessary for this to happen.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  imbroglio
1 month ago

I don’t see that the second sentence follows from the first..

It doesn’t. That’s why I ordered the Cochrane book because they probably make the case, even if it isn’t possible to summarize in the middle of an essay about something else.

Assuming they present genetic evidence at all, I’m guessing its going to be how settling down selected for certain existing traits, not that somehow the right mutations happened at the right time.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

This is basic biology. Select for a trait over a long enough period of time and that genes for that trait become the dominant genes…

If and only if it really is a genetic trait. Possibly an epigenetic trait. Otherwise we are in the realm of what is popularly (if incorrectly) called Lamarckism.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

To some extent. Epigenetics is much more limited than traditional Lamarckianism. And still not well understood even in its limited form. Even a behavior as simple as knowing which fork to use is way beyond what we currently think epigenetics can explain. A more general understanding like knowing right from wrong is right out.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
1 month ago

Another way of saying what Z is saying is that while, yes, human nature exists, it is far too threadbare to serve as a sufficiently puissant social adhesive for a society containing equal numbers of Icelanders and Matabele. It is also insufficient to structure a new world order. In what does human nature really consist? Yes, we cooperate to secure food and shelter for the group, but certain animals do the same thing. To my mind, the clearest, most undeniable component of human nature is an appreciation of art, and especially music. Now the music could be a Borodin symphony… Read more »

Intelligent Dasein
Intelligent Dasein
Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Human nature consists in being a rational animal.

Jack Dodson
Jack Dodson
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Magic trumps math, apparently.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  thezman
1 month ago

Adherents of natural rights would argue that just because individual people are ignorant of a mathematical proof does not make that proof invalid. (I think Aristotle made this point with reference to geometric proofs for scalene and right triangles — just because someone does not know that the angles add up to 180 degrees does not mean that they don’t). So yes, man is capable of being a rational animal, but that is no guarantee that he will actually use reason. Now, admittedly, there is an extremely wide variation, the 65 IQ Australian aborigine is hardly capable of using reason… Read more »

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Xman
1 month ago

But he is still able to use reason to throw a boomerang at a monkey…

Is that reason, instinct, or more of monkey see monkey do type of thing…

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Xman
1 month ago

Now, admittedly, there is an extremely wide variation, the 65 IQ Australian aborigine is hardly capable of using reason the way a 130 IQ Scotsman is.

You just committed the No True Scotsman…

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Xman
1 month ago

And baboons are just rational enough to insert a stick into a termite mound, remove the stick, and ingest the tasty insects. That and the boomerang are far more akin in terms of sophistication than the boomerang and the space shuttle.

Intelligent Dasein
Intelligent Dasein
Member
Reply to  Xman
1 month ago

“Rational” refers to the abstract (i.e. the non-sensory) faculty of the intellect. The ability to think abstractly—to hold a concept in one’s mind rather than just a phantasm—is an ability that humans have and that no other animal possesses. It is evidenced by the fact that humans use language and no other animal does.

If you have language, then you have reason. Whether you reason about things well or poorly is nothing to the point. The difference is one of kind, not one of degree.

Yes, man is the rational animal. I’m not sure why this is even contentious.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Xman
1 month ago

@ID I reject postulate A) that language is coterminous with rationality, and B) that rationality is universal to the human species. A): Language is merely an advanced communicative tool. It is a chain of signs (words) signifying referrents. Now langauge certainly holds the potential, in the hands of a rational person, of structuring abstract concepts, but the rationality is prior to the structuring. At any rate, although language may be unique to human beings (such a banality), it is not itself evidence of rationality. B): In claiming rationality on behalf of all humanity, you are betraying a rationalist bias that… Read more »

fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

More like “rationalizing.”

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Intelligent Dasein
1 month ago

Well, you’ve effectively expelled negroes from the society of man. Why didn’t I ever think of that?

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I often think of Neanderthals. Very big brained Neanderthals. They survived for 600,000 years though difficult conditions including six ice-ages. Impressive. Yet in their evolved nature brute strenth was a primary factor in their survival. They did not develop sophisticated tools for hunting perhaps because they simply didn’t need them, their strength was two and one have times greater than Sapien, leaving their minds were unlike Sapien, who inherited the world because they were weak and therefore required much more of creativity and cunning which eventually prepared, some of them, for calculus, a then trait utterly useless in that world.… Read more »

XLOVELI
1 month ago

Aha, but what is human behavior but a response to incentives? And what do we call the science of incentives? *Economics*. What does homo economicus tell us about the universal state of man? First of all, we hate to be punished more than we like to be rewarded. Look at how we respond to taxes. Studies have shown that if faced with a choice between a small gain or a small loss, most players will take it easy, doing nothing, being risk-averse. But there is a small subset of men — and it is always men — who choose to… Read more »

Hun
Hun
Reply to  XLOVELI
1 month ago

Did you mother not love you? Do you really think it’s all about economics?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  XLOVELI
1 month ago

Homo economicus is not going to get you anywhere useful. Men value things differently, yet the neoclassicals applied their own valuations to make statements about how a human society would function. Same thing Rawls does with his “veil of ignorance” nonsense. Same thing Z talks about the way natural rights people assume everyone else wants to live under their rules. (Though, to be fair, so does everyone else who is not explicitly local, local, local.)

You were OK right up until the second paragraph.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

At least the Marxist and Wokesters are consistent. They believe that all humans are equally capable and thus go in search of some reason for the lack of equal outcomes. The Natural Rights crowd – and especially the HBD-aware crowd – are strangely inconsistent. They accept that there is a natural order, that nature plays a part in who we are and how we structure society. They even accept natural differences between men and women and often even among races/ethnicities. Yet, they also assume that all people – men or women, different races – should live by values created by… Read more »

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

Amen on that Brother…It seems cognitive dissonance affects most…It’s funny to me that the same people who rail against immigration because there is no magic dirt will turn right around and tell you they have to stay where they are because of magic dirt…

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Lineman
1 month ago

Yep. They laugh at the Left (and Right) for their belief in “magic dirt” but then turn around and believe in the “magic words” from the Constitution or Declaration of Independence.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

Exactly right never once understanding that it’s the people who make a country not magic dirt, words, or money…

Mow Knowname
Mow Knowname
Reply to  Lineman
1 month ago

How did the Constitution do in Liberia? Or how is it doing in 2024 AINO?

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Lineman
1 month ago

Institutions (the Constitution) are downstream from Culture.

Culture is downstream from biology.

Change the biology and eventually the culture will change and finally the institutions.

Once I understood that, everything became very clear. We’ve already changed the biology. The change in culture really started in the 1990s and has accelerated. Now, the institutions are changing.

Nothing stops this train.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Lineman
1 month ago

You’re right Brother nothing stops this train but seems most are comfortable riding it off the cliff because damn these cushions are so comfy and if I work hard enough I might get to upgrade to the sleeper car…Screw all those who are riding in the standing room only cars they should of pulled themselves up by their bootstraps harder…

Wanda Sherratt
Wanda Sherratt
Reply to  Lineman
1 month ago

I remember arguing with Conservatives who pointed with pride to George Washington refusing to become King after the Revolution. No kings for them! Instead, they had a president, and that proved how virtuous their Founders and the system they created were! I told them it wouldn’t have mattered if George Washington HAD become King George the First of America. America was a success because it’s *people* were good, and they’d have been just as good with a king as they were under a president. It wasn’t the carefully devised system that worked so well, it was the people devoted to… Read more »

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

“Yep. They laugh at the Left (and Right) for their belief in “magic dirt” but then turn around and believe in the “magic words” from the Constitution or Declaration of Independence.”

This x100. It is why I don’t give anyone grief for wanting to leave this economic trading zone.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

Yet, they also assume that all people – men or women, different races – should live by values created by and for a specific group of wealthy men hundreds of years ago. They accept nature but then deny that nature could impact how various people might want to organize themselves. It looks that way to those who want national or supra-national level organizations. The Libertarian Party, for example, thinks on that scale, so your observation there is valid. That’s a modern phenomenon. Historical natural rights types were not the ones making the world safe for democracy. Even as recently as… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

“Tribe up is inherently a local phenomenon, at this late date, probably not possible above that.” Tell that to Han or Japanese. The scale of a set of values can be as big or small as the people that create those values. When America was 90% white, the Constitution’s values generally fit across the country with lots of local variations. But as whites become a minority, those values must be imposed on the non-whites with varying degrees of success. However, that system will eventually break down because it’s unnatural. Ironically, it won’t be the groups least able to live under… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

That’s exactly what I meant. Japan and China have successfully resisted importing diversity and the whole melting pot claptrap, so they can still organize at larger levels.

Here in the states, you have to continually fight TPTB to keep them from converting some of your local housing into Section 8, and thereby destroying your community. That simply cannot be done at even the level of a medium-sized town anymore. There are too many traitors.

Nick Nolte's Mugshot
Nick Nolte's Mugshot
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

In my town, they are currently building apartments adjacent to my neighborhood which will pack 3000 people on 20 acres. The city officials didn’t have to approve such high density but no doubt, money got passed under the table. In the next town over the apartments under construction will double their population in less than two years from 19000 to 38000. Their water and sewer system can barely handle the current population levels. It never occurs to these politicians to represent the present members of the community only the interests of Black Rock type corporate developers.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Nick: Sounds like it’s past time to move.

Hun
Hun
1 month ago

What is wrong with segregation of people based on race? Seems to me like that would be far superior to what we have now.

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

Don’t you always need somebody lower on the totem pole if for no other reason then to keep you from being on on the lowest rung?

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Are you stupid or a liar?

Hun
Hun
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

You must be at the bottom and you know it.

Anyway, even though you are a moron, I will explain to you what is the actual point: If you don’t mix races, there is no reason for interracial conflict. In a “good fences make good neighbors” way. People of every race have their ancestral homelands (if they can keep them). Africa should belong to Africans. Europe belongs to native Europeans, Hell belongs to jews etc.

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

I guess I hit a nerve. Are you projecting?

Who’s going to do your gardening? Who’s going to rip the shingles off your roof? Who’s going to do all the dirty jobs that a lot of people consider themselves too good for? What does any of that have to do with a race mixing? It’s just a fact of life.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

I can do all of this myself you retard. And your comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying. Now crawl back to whatever hole you cam out of.

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Hitting a nerve there, huh, Sheets? Well you’re the ones who brought the blacks here in the first place. Is that because you all were too lazy to tame the South? Even in those days did you prefer to string yourselves out on meth all day rather than work?

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Stupid, liar, and troll.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

The problem with Africa belonging to Africans (a noble idea) is their utter inability to do anything productive with it. or to construct a political organization to defend it, thus opening the door to foreign exploitation by parties, be they European or Han, who see all those unused resources lying around and can’t resist. I’m not saying the foreign exploiters are “right,” but that human nature (uh oh) being what it is, they are inevitable, sooner or later.

Hun
Hun
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Perhaps, but consider this:

1. We can live without Africa and African resources.

2. There is a cost to exploitation of that continent – population explosion without the ability to sustain itself without external help and the resulting expansion of that population to the West…

If the cost of 2) wasn’t ignored and socialized, but the specific exploiters (the companies, the explorers, the NGOs etc) were forced to cover the cost forever, maybe then we would be closer to an acceptable situation.

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Africans incompetence is NOT our problem.
Therefore your thesis is specious.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

Vinny, I do so wish African incompetence wasn’t our problem. I find it quite likely that it’s the number one reason this website exists.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 month ago

I’m with you, @Jeffery. In fact, I’m fine with just buying the resources from the Han, and let them deal with the natives. Surely they will be treated nearly as well as the somewhat cosmetically similar Tibetans or Uighars.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Stupid, liar, and troll.

usNthem
usNthem
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

The human race was once naturally segregated. Then White men started exploring, then realized how superior they were to most of the other peoples encountered, then started ruling over some of those other peoples, then began to believe they had a responsibility to help those other peoples, then created modes of transportation that allowed those other peoples to invade their lands, then allowed those other peoples (and women) to vote and occupy positions of power, and here we are…

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  usNthem
1 month ago

Don’t forget that his inventions of medicine and mass production in agriculture that also enabled them mass reproduction success. As for the belief in the need to help those others. Yes. But there were also bankers who saw those additional sacks of flesh as a means to keep their debt ponzi scheme going. They aren’t humans, they are units of GDP that will keep our GDP:debt models working. It won’t work, but the damage they will do is still unknown and unfolding. Step One, get rid of the white man whose ability for long range thinking and his spirit, (mostly… Read more »

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  RealityRules
1 month ago

Truth right there Brother…

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

Indeed. I was puzzled by that statement in today’s piece.

Augustine
Augustine
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

I was as well. I think he may have left out the word `against`.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  Hun
1 month ago

Segregating based upon race is still practiced at the most basic levels, like at lunch tables.

Lineman
Lineman
1 month ago

Whose Truth should be listened to….I would say the one who wants the best for you…

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
1 month ago

It’s really strange and counter-intuitive that in 2500 years, humanity has regressed from Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas to the likes of Rousseau, Marx, and the new head of NPR…Christianity has to take a lot of the blame….Jefferson’s phrase “All men are created equal” was intended to mean equal under God, but has been turned into the egalitarian nonsense that is destroying the West…

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

No, postmodern man’s willful misinterpretation of Christianity has to take a lot of the blame.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

I would say the blame lies with those who hate us and want us dead or enslaved and they think it’s funny…

Curious Monkey
Curious Monkey
1 month ago

Dog Thomas Aquinas and dog different behaviors are the new Africanized bees analogy for what everybody knows. The sheep question is a totally new analogy I guess, do bees have a version of the wandering bee?

right2remainviolent
right2remainviolent
1 month ago

Here here. The framework from which we build is in part genetic; our ancestry, where they physically lived, and the selection pressures therein. We can’t expect tribes from say, the North Sentinel Islands, who have yet to reach the Bronze age to be able to organize their thoughts in such a way to even comprehend of our current way of thinking. Let alone the concept of ‘Democracy’. And the timeline for evolutionary change happens at such a long horizon that even if we imported them to live here for 400 years, there’s still no way they could conceive of how… Read more »

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  right2remainviolent
1 month ago

But what if it’s our way that isn’t natural to man? What if random, impulsive, chaotic thought and behavior is supposed to be the norm and we, like trained seals, have been trained to live within a boxed-in logical framework? What if we are supposed to live more by the seat of our pants, our own intuition and, yes, emotion?

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Another deep thought from Jack Handy. :rolleyes:

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Well the name like Kozelskii you should know exactly what I’m talking about. The skis of the world, of which I am one, don’t always think of and do things in the western manner themselves.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

As of the present, the Skiis are the most Western of all Western men.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Sorry, folks, but I gotta upvote Jack Handy for the sick burns. I mean, “Sheets, strung out on meth” and “the skis of the world” are goddam funny. And so very wrong.

Tempo is such a bad doggy. Tempo! Sit!

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

“What’s the problem, Sheets?” LOL. LMFAO!!
Damn you, Tempo!

TempoNick
TempoNick
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

“And so very wrong.” Really, read Thomas Sowell about who the “rednecks” were and where blacks adopted their behaviors from. It never ceases to amaze me how (at least the public face) of black immigrants is nothing like what we see from our home-grown blacks. Thomas Sowell says the they adopted their behaviors from the rednecks of England. He might have a point. Just look at all the layabouts throughout Appalachia. Early disability, strung out on meth all day, girlfriends working and supporting them. These are the descendants of their great-great-great-great granddaddies who gave us an angry slave descendant population.… Read more »

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  TempoNick
1 month ago

Stupid, liar, troll.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  right2remainviolent
1 month ago

Right. 400 years is an eye-blink, a mere 20 generations, yet somehow Europeans managed to go from mud huts to Notre Dame in less. That is not enough time for traditional Darwinist evolution to explain based on fairly well understood mutation rates, but it is well within Punk Eek.

I just ordered the Cochrane book. 10k years is a mere 500 generations. That’s way more than you need to select for desirable traits within a gene pool, e.g. mud hut to Notre Dame, but to create them ex nihilo? Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Northern Europeans didn’t go from mud huts to Notre Dame in 400 years any more than Americans went from Hillbilly shacks in WV to landing a man on the moon in 50 years. The early Middle Ages weren’t exactly a time of great scholarship or building, but pockets did exist. The Europeans at that time were probably 96-98 avg IQ and much more prone to violence that we are today. Settling down, towns, etc., pushed that avg IQ and cooperation up to what was needed for Notre Dame. Europeans were ready to break through. Africans would need thousands of years… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 month ago

Mud huts existed in Europe until the 19th century, in some places the 20th century. There were always pockets of poverty. There was not always such a thing as the Sistine Chapel or Romanesque architecture. 9th century wood and earth fortifications were replaced by real castles in under 3 centuries.

How many African nations developed anything remotely close to 11th century Germany?

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  right2remainviolent
1 month ago

Indeed. Negroes have lived among us 400 years and doing so hasn’t put a dent in their primitive minds. Maybe 400,000 years from now they’ll have learned not to max out their credit cards on bling when they can barely afford to purchase a watermelon.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Lol… Can they even do that(purchase a watermelon) without our help?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Agreed. That’s the problem. They have not had to develop their own systems of civil society because they’ve always leeched off Europeans.

Send them back to Africa and once they make something of themselves, then we can talk.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  Steve
1 month ago

Agreed on the sending them all back but disagree on them developing their own civil society I don’t think they are capable of it…I think all they are capable of is might makes right and if they aren’t around me then let them have whatever system suits them…

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Lineman
1 month ago

You aren’t really disagreeing. You are assuming they can’t do it at all, I’m assuming that if they can, we’ll have warp drives by then, so won’t be talking to them anyway.

Anti-Gnostic
Anti-Gnostic
1 month ago

I have chickens now. The only learned behavior I observe is where they’re supposed to go sleep for the night. They hatch out completely wired for Chicken behavior.

The US software was written for a population with a mean IQ of 100, and you probably need at least 103-105 for full civic engagement in a self-ruled republic. Below 90 IQ concepts like free markets, due process, monetary inflation are just too abstract. But sub-90 IQ people have the right to vote. And own a gun.

right2remainviolent
right2remainviolent
Reply to  Anti-Gnostic
1 month ago

and create more sub 90’s…

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  right2remainviolent
1 month ago

Lots of them…and supported by our government(s)…

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  right2remainviolent
1 month ago

Yes. And pay for more of them by cuckholding the 100+ segment of the society by transfer payments a.k.a. Welfare.

Lineman
Lineman
Reply to  RealityRules
1 month ago

Yea exactly, wonder why most men here are ok with that and are not doing everything in their power to stop it…Must be comfortable enough paying the danegeld and hoping it won’t go up…

Whitney
Member
1 month ago

All humans wear some sort of clothing or ornamentation. It might be mostly decorative, it might not cover much but all humans do it. There are no naked humans.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Whitney
1 month ago

But humans were not clothed until roughly 70,000 years ago, and still go naked at times in some very hot, wet climates like the Amazon and New Guinea…

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

Oh come now. A string around the hips is still clothing.
A penis sheath, now that’s high fashion. C’est tres haute couture.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Whitney
1 month ago

Fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Paul Gottfried
Paul Gottfried
1 month ago

“Also note that natural rights arguments should be placed alongside things like Marxism, libertarianism, and anarchism.” Exactly. All those other isms came out of enlightenment that replaced God and God-given rights of kings with “Nature”. It was a novel and powerful concept then, but everything overused reaches its diminishing return. Now we are at the tail-end of the cycle. On top of that, global travel and migration mixes all kinds of people without the same history of enlightenent. To them, these conceps act as voodoo, but democracy would eventually give them numerical supremacy. We are clearly in a mess. How… Read more »

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
1 month ago

With regard to dogs, Anglin persuasively argued that there’s only one breed of dog — the dog breed. I’m a breed realist myself.

https://dailystormer.in/theres-only-one-breed-of-dog-the-dog-breed/

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

But some breeds are much smarter than others, as all dog lovers know….

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 month ago

And some more aggressive, others more timid. Some more beautiful, others less so. The diversity among dogs mirrors that among humans.

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
1 month ago

Among dogs it’s been accelerated by breeders. Among human races by the differences in environment and genetic drift.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

Nah. The Nordic look didn’t develop because fjords, but because men saw blonde hair, blue eyes as more attractive than the alternatives. That I can understand. I do not get the selection process that happened in Africa.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

And in tool usage. Tool usage allowed diverse branches to differentiate and adapt to different niches much, much faster, even more so with language and storytelling developing as an accelerant.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

As to the selection process that happened in Africa, a small band of Erectus descent hid in the central highlands for 300,000 years, avoiding the Neanderthals whose job it was to eliminate the obsolete versions. (Just as a pupae eliminates the caterpillar, and the butterfly eliminates the pupae…and replicants might someday replace us.) The catastrophic end of the Ice Age- meteor impact melting the North American ice sheet, and the resulting climate chaos- gave that small band of Negroids their chance. They have higher testosterone, thus are more physically and sexually aggressive (their men die early of high blood pressure,… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

, I get that. What I struggle with is the thought process that goes into, “Nigga, I wants me a piece of that sheboon!”

Surely, somewhere along the line, there must have been a mutant here and there that was, ya know, not completely ugly.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 month ago

Ha! Steve, so my skinny little black friend Ricky and me in his Camaro years ago were cruisin’ the hood. He pulls up to the empty baseball field and parks it right there, turns off the engine. I axed him what we’re doing. There, stretched out on the sun-drenched grass, are two of the biggest, fattest ghettopotamuses I’ve ever seen. Facing away from us, just catching some rays and waiting for admirers. Wearing cutoffs like gluteous mountains. Skinny little Ricky leans back with a smile, and says, “See that? Man, this is bu-u-utt country.” Skinny little Ricky just couldn’t get… Read more »