The Immorality Of Immigration

Every ruling elite has certain primary duties. These are obligations that come before anything else. Regardless of the form of government, the rulers  have to maintain things like public order. Being the tribal chief is useless if your people are in chaos. For that matter, having a tribal chief is useless if it means living in chaos. Therefore, one of the primary duties of all rulers in all times and all places is to maintain public order by enforcing laws and local customs.

There are other primary duties of the ruler, like organizing the common defense, that are universal to all forms of government. Then there are primary duties that are peculiar to a people or to a form of government. If the ruler is understood to be a god, then the ruler and his retainers have to maintain that myth.  In modern western countries, protecting property rights and enforcing contracts is counted as a primary duty of the state in order to maintain its legitimacy

One of the more destructive things to happen to America over the last half century is the sacralizing of immigration by the elites. The endless repetition of the nonsense phrase “nation of immigrants” has turned a temporary expedient a century ago into an essential element of the nation’s founding mythology. The fact that immigration is a violation of the state’s primary duty to the people is excused because the immigrant now has a superior place in the moral order.

In a country like America, one that allegedly is built on consensual government, citizenship has great value. In fact, the most valuable thing to a citizen of a representative democracy is his citizenship. The reason for this is that citizenship is an ownership stake in the country. In theory, the American government was voluntarily founded as an agreement among individuals, invested with the power to secure mutual protection and regulate the relations among its members.

If you had the option of selling your citizenship, let us say at some sort of auction, there would be no shortage of bidders. For example, there is no shortage of buyers for the EB-5 visa, which costs $500,000. That is right, you can buy citizenship from the US government. Your citizenship is something of value and therefore, the state has a duty to protect it, just as they have a duty to protect your property rights. This is a primary duty of government.

When the American government hands out citizenship to millions of foreigners every year, it is stealing the value of your citizenship and giving it to someone else. This is no different than a company diluting the value of its shares by selling additional shares. It is why open borders fanatics swear that immigration makes us all richer, despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. They know it is essential that people believe this as even the sacred immigrant is not enough to justify theft.

The argument from open borders people is that immigration is not just holy and beneficial. It is perfectly legitimate. The trouble is, when 50% plus one vote to rob the 50% minus one, it is still theft, even if it comes after an election. This is why America is not a democracy and it is also why democracy was famously called two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch. The very nature of democracy makes it an immoral form of rule because of the theft problem.

Additionally, a primary duty of the modern state is the maintenance of equality before the law. In fact, this is what makes the law legitimate. Not only do all citizens have a say in what laws are passed, but those laws apply to all citizens equally. The very nature of immigration violates this principle. Immigration steals from some citizens for the benefit of foreigners and the connected. This is true for quasi-immigration schemes like guest workers, as well as for permanent settlement.

If the primary duty of the state is to safeguard the citizens, including the value of their citizenship and maintain equality before the law, then immigration by its very nature is a direct violation of the social compact. It makes a mockery of the very idea of consensual government and sows distrust among the people. It is why all mass immigration quickly leads to a breakdown of order, because it erodes the legitimacy of the ruling authority, as the people see they are no longer willing to fulfill their basic duties.

That does not preclude all immigration. It is just that the bar is extremely high. In order to justify that which is naturally and always immoral, the offset must exceed the cost of the deed. Since this is impossible in the modern age, the open borders people have been forced to turn morality on its head, claiming the first duty of the state is to foreigners at the expense of its own citizens. It has turned America into a bust out where the value of your citizenship is stolen.

119 thoughts on “The Immorality Of Immigration

  1. “Therefore, one of the primary duties of all rulers in all times and all places is to maintain public order…”

    Meanwhile, back here on planet Earth, what the rulers actually do, is look out for their own interests just like the rest of us do. The so-called “duties” are just a load of crap put out by their propagandists, to keep us peons believing in that old time Government Religion. The peons can’t actually get rid of the bums who do not perform their duties, which is why those duties are just a figment of our imagination. But it is necessary for the rulers that we continue to believe, because otherwise the torches and pitchforks come out…

  2. I’ve read the phrase “nation of immigrants” gradually spread after JFK authored a book titled, A Nation of Immigrants. No one even spoke of such nonsense before then.

  3. Figgered I’d better just make this a general comment.

    Without johns, there are no hookers.

    Jail time for hiring illegals.

    And can we get some ME majors to invent mechanical harvesters for more crops?

    Seriously, we don’t have migrants digging taters, I live near the farm where the mechanical tater harvester was invented. Combines handle grains. How hard could it be for a couple of smart ME guys to team with some Agronomy majors to mechanize everything else? Maybe some CSci boys as well, so we can do for berries and tree fruits.

    And how is it that we can’t secure the border? How many Reserve and NG units get called up for 2 weeks at a time every year? And let’s not forget the regulars, how many thousands?

    It’s late and I’m tired. I hope y’all can read the rest between the lines.

    • Ed;
      Closed borders is apparently the N Asian decision. Japan, S Korea, China take no permanent immigrants (to speak of) despite having so-called bad demographics. Why_?

      Loyalty to their own people, I’d say.

      Plus, it’s pretty obvious that robots obviate the need for low skilled workers, even in Ag, as you say.

      Makes you ‘wonder’ what’s going on in the West.

  4. “The trouble is, we don’t live in a democracy.”

    Z-Man: BINGO!

    In fact, we no longer live in a representative republic either. Our supposed “representatives” who have the sole constitutional power to make law, – ignore us ordinary Americans as they along with the $ellout judiciary openly, brazenly rig the system against us, as you concluded your essay, “for the benefit of a few.” There is no way for us ordinary Americans to vote our way out of this ongoing Perpetual Mass Immigration disaster, and there is no way the rigged system will allow for the formation of a third political party either.

  5. >”In all times and all places, the people in charge have certain primary duties, obligations that come before anything else they like to do.”

    Zu jedem Zeit
    An jedem Ort
    Bleibt das Tun
    Der Menschen das gleiche

  6. solution: tell any country that is sending illegals here, we will flood their country with weapons and training for their own American style revolution. take over every country this way.

  7. america is not a democracy because congress promises what the voters want and then do not deliver…

    in the early 2000s the gop gained control of all 3 branches by promising smaller gov’t and school vouchers….did they deliver? No…why not? because they get paid by big business to NOT deliver on populist promises…is that democracy? NO.

    in 2008 the dems gained control of all 3 branches by promising single payer healthcare….did they deliver? No…why not? because they get paid by big business to NOT deliver on populist promises…is that democracy? NO.

    in 2016 the gop gained control of all 3 branches by promising smaller gov’t and less immigration….did they deliver? No…why not? because they get paid by big business to NOT deliver on populist promises…is that democracy? NO.

    why do american voters continue to exist in this delusional world?

    • No, you would not. You would go somewhere else. The reason blacks were brought over to the South was because it was too damned hot for Europeans. It still is. And thank God for air-conditioned farm tractors.

      • Plenty of redneck HS kids didn’t know it was too hot for many years. They used to pick and haul watermelons and other fruit from the fields down here in Florida in the middle of July.

        I know because I was one of them.

        I’m sure today’s kids have been informed that the heat is really too much for them to bear, and migrants do the work instead. But the word hasn’t gotten out to the numerous white guys who make their living down here doing landscaping.

      • The single greatest difference between 18th century New England and the South was disease. Lifespan in the north 65, 41 in the South. But yes, cotton and sugar cane ruined a good thing.

  8. I can remember as a kid, about 12 years old (early 1970’s) being surprised and puzzled to learn that we still had immigrants entering the US. I knew history fairly well for a kid, and understood that we needed immigrants in the past when the country was a wide open frontier and we had to settle the land. I couldn’t understand why, now that the US was now settled, why we still needed immigrants. I still don’t.

  9. I wonder when the Z-flow is going to run dry, but it never does.

    It is hard to imagine the end of the US because it is all we know and because a thousand years of history was conducted in so short a time. But the flywheel of vices and virtues that formed a remarkable nation have inevitably eroded and defects of it’s character, like defects of the face, grow with age and are incurable. The best people try to keep this apparition on life support and the worst try to end it. They don’t have any idea what they are getting. The difference is I know I don’t know what is next.

  10. Everything you write is painfully obvious to those of us with more than two brain cells to rub together, unlike one of my Fakebook “friends” I had the displeasure of engaging with yesterday. This whole border situation makes me very angry. I can’t really say how much, as I don’t want to leave a paper trail of said anger.

  11. Another thing: Zman in effect makes the case that true civic nationalism / constitutional conservatism REQUIRES maintaining the integrity of the border. Should we really let the David Frenches of the world get away with arguing the reverse?

  12. Excellent post ZMan. Ace of Spades, today, linked to a post over on PJMedia written by Raymond Ibrahim entitled “The Folly of Multiculturalism” – dated June 19 2018. Compliments this article and is worth the time of those who “imbibe” here – some of whom, I’m sure, do so in a genuine effort to understand WTF is going on!!

  13. Exploiting fresh immigrants at the dock has been an ongoing scam for almost 2 centuries. The Democrats seem desperate to make themselves into a modern Tammany Hall operation that meets immigrants at the border and immediately gets them registered to vote in exchange for some of my cash they took by force.

    Immigration, like so many other things in the government, is just another grift. I like the “diluting the value of my citizenship” argument as well as misdirecting my tax dollars.

    • So much ignorance. The ‘dilute’ argument is pure crap. Usually when companies raise capital diluting the share value, they get benefited i..e more capital to invest into hiring or buying equipment. So it is a trade-off, that is expected to benefit the company overall if done wisely. Immigration (legal and controlled) is similar. I really fail to see how letting in more people dilutes anybody’s citizenship.

      There are lots of other valid arguments to be made against immigration – legal and illegal. But this is one of the dumbest ones I have heard.

      • When companies raise capital to invest it, they do so because they are confident they can use that capital to earn a return on that invest above a given rate. That’s what the stockholders and directors expect of management.

        What rate of return do you expect on a truck full of Central Americans or a boatload of Somalis? A few may pay off but on the whole I say they are diluting and devaluing my citizenship.

        • That doesn’t matter to many businessmen. Social costs are irrelevant compared to the bottom line. Besides he knows full well the state will subsidize his insatiable need for cheap labor via welfare.

          Wal-Mart does the same thing. They pay so low, when they hire you they give you(or used to) a application for welfare. IOW Wal-Mart has shifted costs to the state. This should be illegal as hell but isn’t.

          Increased taxes from socialized costs? No problem, he just passes it on to the customer.

          That said, I live in Southern CA, outskirts of Los Angeles, which is ground zero for illegal immigration. The biggest supporters of it are white businessmen and have been for decades. People don’t understand that a lot of these SOBs sail under the Jolly Roger and don’t give a rats ass about the damage they cause. This is why the government and the people have to put a leash on the bastards. Such as E Verify and the employers punishable for hiring illegals. I guarantee you the moment a small business owner or middle manager gets jail time for hiring a illegal it will stop. If they can’t stay in business without illegals they deserve to go out of business.

  14. Once the Founding Population found itself in minority status, the rest was inevitable. Foreigners never ask “Hey, how come my home country can’t adopt the policies that made the USA what it is?” They just want to come here and live as “XYZ” culturally while reaping the economic benefits that accrue to Americans. We’re dopes for allowing it to happen.

  15. That as a good post Z-man, and there have been several good comments so far today. Good on everyone.

    But here is the thing that we normally leave out. From my looking at the results of genetics and heredity research for the last 4 decades, I see that who you let in is very important. With the population size of the USA, I would say we don’t need to let anyone it. But if we do let people in, should they be low-IQ Africans or Germans? (just to pick a contrast)

    I realize that it is just an old country saying, but “the apple don’t fall far from the tree” is wisdom that came from generations of observation. If we want to take the average US IQ levels to an average of 85 or even lower — the result will be an African style shit-hole. Is that what everyone wants?

    One last thing, low IQ is also highly correlated with criminality. Your state prison is not a good candidate to hold a MESA meeting.

  16. You guys need to read Nikoke Hannah Jones

    America needs more diversity

    It is appallingly white

    • If The US is too white, perhaps you should move to a less white area, Africa would fill the bill, no?

    • Trans orbital lobotomies await for all supporters, too. We will send an army of shamblers back, much as Basil the Second returned the Bulgars to their home.

    • If its so White why are you here? Zimbabwe is calling, go now and be happy among people of color.

      That said I’d be happy to make the nation purely White just to keep the POC’s from suffering, They leave, we keep the land and both of us win

      We call out nation “The United States” they call there’s “America” and that America is no longer appallingly White as you put it

      We Whites can suffer alone.

  17. Great post. Additionally, any citizenship that is extended to outsiders should be auctioned off, and the proceeds given to current shareholders, i.e., American citizens. Nobody should get it for free.

    Unfortunately, the prog view is “It is time to deliver the final blow to the tolerance of birthright by allowing people to choose the countries where they will live,” says Jackie Stevens of @NorthwesternU. This is just warmed over Marxism — the view that bestowing benefits to our progeny is illegitimate.

  18. Just can’t believe the amount and quality of output from Zman. It’s like there’s a Christmas present on my computer almost every morning. You wonder if he’s clinically hyperactive or on amphetamines. I feel like we should be paying for this stuff. The great pleasure it brings, yet it’s free. Doesn’t seem right. Wish he’d set up a donation button or something.

    • Z is at least partially of Russian stock. My business partner and some distant relatives are similarly configured. Intelligent, persistent, stubborn. And don’t cross them, it wouldn’t be pretty.

      • It’s something I’ve thought about Europe’s suicide. There’s a resurgent Nationalism and Patriotism in Eastern Europe. Think what you will of Putin but he has made Russia a big player on the World stage. The native Birth tate has been consistently increasing. Up until Brexit, Trump and the Populist surge I always felt Europe’s future was demographic Dinducide or Detroiting, Russia’s trophy wife or islam’s prison bitch….. And I for one would Welcome our Slavic Over Lords,

        • There’s a resurgent Nationalism and Patriotism in Eastern Europe.

          In Western Europe too. In most of Continental Europe, anti-immigration, anti-EU countries are skyrocketing in the polls. They’re in government in Norway, Austria and Italy, and populist parties poll second in Denmark, Holland and France. In Sweden, hitting the booths in September, the Sweden Democrats are set to become the largest party in Sweden.

          The only Western countries without strong populist parties are the Anglophones.

        • >>>I for one would Welcome our Slavic Over Lords

          My ancestry is Swedish, and at times I feel damned ashamed of it.

      • Great, I am sure then that he is putting his money where his mouth his and self deporting back to Russia. Russians were NOT among the founding racial stock of this country. Since the OP obsesses over blood and soil, he can start by deporting his non- true American self back home.

        Same goes for the Irish and Italians. BTW, both were considered non-white when they immigrated over to the US.

        • Your stock exists because it exterminated all the original native European males several thousand years ago and kept their best looking women for themselves. Then yo mama got the same treatment in turn from invaders by way of what is now Russia, so Zman is quite at home, thanks. Talk to your mama about how this all works so it doesn’t happen to you, chump.

          • Sorry, cuck boy. Maybe doing yer mama has made yer brain soft, but your post is total gibberish. No Habla Ingles? Let me say real sloooowly it so that even a low-IQ type like yourself gets it

            “Russians are NOT European and have no right to immigrate into the US, going by the rules favored by the alt-right. There the OP should leave this country going by his own rules”. Comprende?

        • There were some Russians in the northwest and Alaska actually. Moreover, there were a ton of highly talented and productive Slavs such as poles and Czechs in the Midwest, including Nobel prize winners.

        • The dividing line for which immigrants are good for the country is not where they come from per se, but whether or not their tribe takes welfare and votes for socialism.

          • Which is why I made the previous comment about the Popery crowd.

            As UpYours pointed out: The Irish and Italians weren’t exactly welcomed by the natives when they first arrived. And if MA politics are any indication: The Irish aren’t exactly freedom lovers. Teddy Kennedy’s little immigration bill is a huge piece of the puzzle as to why we are where we are today in regards to immigration.

            As far as Russians go: I know a number of Russians who came here as soon as they could get out of Mother Russia’s commie madness. I don’t know if it’s something within the Russian mind – or just because they grew up under commies, but they’re typically the most “American” immigrants I’ve ever met. They understand the roots of this country – and the philosophies that were *supposed to* guide it. Better than most of the people I run across that were born here in fact.

            But that may be because I’m in MA – and surrounded by Papists of Irish and Italian origin…………….

  19. Some great lines in there!

    I was thinking similar thoughts the other day, hinging around the notion that citizenship in the US in Europe has a much higher value than other places in the world, simply because one gains ownership of a basket of goodies attached to citizenship(or even simply physical presence in some cases such as ER care). One can attach a very literal percapita price tag to these citizenships. That was not the case pre 1950, virtually anywhere.

    Yet in places such as Malaysia they only have birthright citizenship. Even relatively “primitive” peoples understand the value of citizenship. And I don’t mean to be pejorative here. The fundamental assymetry should give us pause.

    It’s similar to the government’s inflating of the money supply, thus eroding the worth of white middle class savings, is it not? Immigration is inflating the people supply and thus eroding the infrastructure and social services. Look also how both processes started at almost the same time: 1965 for immigration and early 70s for the inflation and closing of the gold window! Weird, and suggestive…

  20. When the other side is perfectly willing to put the lives of children in danger simply to conduct an emotional blackmail campaign against their opponents, you’ve left the orbit of whatever we would define as “moral”.

    Having won a brief reprieve on the lie that children are being caged and mistreated, the immigration activists will move on to the idea that no families should be locked up at all, and that they should all be released immediately.

    This is a war. Would that more people would treat it as such.

    • There is a financial gravy train for all involved and a boost in the Democrat voting rolls to boot. “Morality” has had little to nothing to do with it for a long time now.

      As always, “follow the money”.

      • The financial gravy train you refer to is particularly beneficial to three of our religious institutions: the Catholics, Lutherans & Methodists collectively garnered over $1 billion in payments for refugee resettlement services in the latest year for which figures are available (2016 if I remember correctly).

  21. I’m reading a book on the Incas right now. They maintained strict control over their society. Normally I would find that unappealing….

  22. In 1983 Denmark was under pressure to get a new law for foreigners. The law was almost written by a prof. of law that also was chairman of refugee organisation in Denmark.He wanted “human rights laws” into the danish law. He was a professor in “normative law” or how the world and humans “ought to be”. A commission was put down to advise the politicians in relation to that pressure to get a new law. The commission was lead by a former high court judge. They advised to decline many aspects of the law. The judge wrote that the human rights thinking and asylum rules was in conflict with the thinking that was the basis for the state with rule of law; The state had the power and therefor it could give rights. Power and rights could not be separated. If your state to give rights to people you don’t have power over with human right, you expand the jurisdiction of the state to something you cannot control. He defended the thinking that was the basis for the state with rule of law. He and the commission was rejected by the politicians after a massive pressure form humaniterian organisations and the press. Denmark has changed rapidly after this “coup d’etat” of the state with rule by humanitarian ideology with human rights laws to all humanity. From almost a homogeneous nation to close 20% from outside the west in 35.years.

      • According to official statistics, 13.6% of the population is foreign born or the children of foreign born. Given the habit of lying about these facts, 15% is probably good number for Denmark, plus a population of European “guest workers.”

        • Those numbers include 50% Europeans – most of them other Scandinavians, Germans, Poles and British.

          • I had to look them up because their is so many figures coming around and some are high because they related to the under 15.old and is a prognosis.The figures from 2014. 17% of the population have immigrant background and most is from the west. 410.000 or 7.2% of the population had non-western background.

          • Of the ~570K foreign born, more than half are non-white. I dug around in their data sets and that’s a rough approximation. That does not include second generation immigrants. Again, this is how our rulers play hide the salami. Juan shows up and is counted as an immigrant, but his five kids are now. To your point, no, Denmark is not 20% migrant, but the cities probably feel that way.

          • Of the ~570K foreign born, more than half are non-white.

            Which lands you somewhere about 5% of the population.

            The reason you so often see exaggerated numbers, is a mirror phenomenon to the lefties underplaying them: sites like Breitbart and counterjihadi sites make money off disaster porn, they’re basically selling the Europe Is Doomed-narrative, so they boost the numbers as much as the MSM tries to hide them.

    • Putting “human rights” into law is a bad decision. It really fucked up the French Revolution. We’re lucky our mistake was in the Declaration of Independence. Whenever someone, Lincoln comes to mind, uses the Declaration as a justification for political action saying that it is the organic law of America, people end up dead, either here, or overseas, but always Americans.

  23. In fact, the most valuable thing to a citizen of a representative democracy is his citizenship. For example, there is no shortage of buyers for the EB-5 visa, which costs $500,000.

    A very neglected aspect of immigration, particularly in Europe: an African living in Africa is, let’s say, a couple of thousand dollars worth all told. Move him to Europe, and suddenly he can afford a comfortable house with all modern amenities, schooling for his children, healthcare, and a range of secondary welfare benefits. Also, he can suddenly afford a whole range of consumer goods previously way beyond his means. Thus, the day after he sets foot in European soil, he’s suddenly worth hundreds of thousands of Euros.

    Of course, he can only “buy” all of the above because the locals underwrite his mortgage and all his bills, but to banks that matters little. The key point is that immigration ‘grows’ the economy, even if it shrinks the BNP per capita.

    • At some point we are going to be paying these people to leave. It gives me no pleasure to say it, but it would be easier than forcibly denaturalizing millions which risks years of civil unrest, at best.

      I understand the Soros Foundations have a endowment valued at 20 billion. That could pay 4 million invaders into Europe 5,000 dollars to leave and never come back. Zuckerberg, Gates and Bezos also have large fortunes and foundations that could be expropriated for patriotic ends.

      • At some point we are going to be paying these people to leave.

        Absolutely. And the pay-up bit is very important. The tax payers voted for the traitors who opened the gates, they need to be punished lest they don’t learn the lesson.

        • In WW2 we sold war bonds, regaining our self-determination means we must sell “repatriation bonds”. This would be a good way for Hungary and Poland to get out of Brussels’ dog house. Time will tell if their populations will consent to giving up EU development funds in exchange for those funds being rerouted to paying invaders to go back.

          • Put a bouny on illegal aliens and let free enterprise take care of the problem. First comment anywhere.

      • Who the hell is this “we”? What happens if I use sweat and blood and ashes as my currency?

        The real issue with de-legitimizing the government is that people seek stability. When the idiots in charge manage to destroy all their credibility the masses will swarm to the next Marat, Robespierre, etc.
        Or the moustache, that would do nicely.

        We need to kick apart the bubble wrapped culture of therapy and have ourselves a productive little k/t extinction event , where effeminate idiocy features heaviest in the fossil record.

  24. I’ll take the simpleton Starbucks argument, with the immigrants being the ones using the bathrooms for free. The customers (the middle class) will flee and the shareholders and executives (the elites) will eventually suffer.

    “But some of those freeloaders using the bathroom are really nice people”.

  25. One argument that I have used against the pro-immigration lunatics is the following. It follows a somewhat different line of attack than what you used in your article

    We have a government – that claims sovereignty over a very specifically defined territory on planet earth. You can demonstrate this by going to multiple places along the US – Canadian border – just by simply stepping over a line. On one side the line you are subject to US law – on the other side of the line you are subject to Canadian law. There are other places in the world where this differentiation is much more starkly demonstrated – the North/South Korean border is a good example.

    The modern nation state system – has it’s roots in the Treat of Westphalia – and the premise that a government has sovereignty over it’s territory is called Westphalian sovereignty:

    Now – the government of the United States – because it claims ownership of a certain swath of territory – has said that people born within those lines – are “citizens” – subject to the laws of said US government. I have been subject to these laws since the day of my birth – because I was born within those lines. Because of those lines – I am subject to things like income tax – and in fact people born within those lines have been prosecuted for failure to pay US income tax – even though they have not lived within those lines since shortly after their birth and earned no money within those lines once they came of working age. It doesn’t matter – the US govt. claims sovereignty within those lines.

    Another good example of this – is what the US government will take from you if you try to give up said US citizenship. There’s plenty of cases out there of the US govt. not allowing people to give up their US citizenship with paying to what amounts to an exit fee.

    So the fact that the US government claims absolute sovereignty within those border lines is VERY well established. We have gone to war when people violated those lines.

    Except for now. Now we’ve got what amounts to millions of people running over the lines – getting citizenship because they ran over the lines – getting the ability to change the laws that previously applied within those lines – etc.

    The founders of this country said that it is entirely legitimate to fully replace the government. Many leftoids seem to think that the government is eternal and the people are replaceable. I argue that the people within those lines make up the “country” – and the government is but an instrument of those people. Therefore – what is REALLY going on here – is that the government is demonstrating that it is in and of itself ILLEGITIMATE – and is therefore subject to being replaced WHOLESALE.

    Since the people are what define the country and the nation – NOT the government – what we’ve got going on here is a governmental structure that is full of people who are traitors to the country and the nation – and is is therefore completely and totally moral and right – to eliminate them entirely and start over again.

    Which is exactly what Jefferson was referring to when he said a revolution now and then is a good thing. The colonists at the time of the Revolution saw the rule of the Crown as completely illegitimate and took up arms to get rid of it.

    We’ve got a similar situation today – and it is therefore completely and totally within morality and history – to replace it by any means possible.

    I think the government as a whole has demonstrated over DECADES of non performance if not outright willful action – that is simply NOT going to stop immigration into the country and at this point it is actively ENCOURAGING it.

    A business that no longer refuses to service it’s customers – is not doing it’s damn job. Part of the job of claiming sovereignty – is defending the borders. In fact since the borders are what defines said sovereignty – failure to defend them in and of itself makes a government illegitimate IMHO.

    Trying to work within the system – legitimizes the system. Saying the system is illegitimate and needs to be replaced wholesale – is a completely different avenue of attack.

  26. Agreed that is democracy even a representative republic is really flawed. It is wholly dependent on the quality of citizens and their values. Just think if women couldn’t vote, property ownership or some vested stake in the system was also required. Oh, I don’t know, like it used be in ancient times.
    That and vigorous enforcement of immigration laws, a moratorium on said laws for a few decades and then ethnically biased in favor of European lineage. Finally, no partaking of any government subsidies, welfare, SS for five years.

    I’ll take even part of that. It is a dream I have. But hell, the goose is cooked, too many here already with too many crazies running the show. A major cataclysm is needed in order for an opportunity of a reboot.

  27. The Trump GOP has staked its claim to winning elections on the basis of increasing wages (via the restriction of immigration). Paul Ryan laughably promoted the tax cuts as leading to wage gains, when the immediate reaction was stock buybacks with the repatriated foreign profits.

    Unless the GOP delivers the immigration cuts, the median voter will notice that the Dems are promising free healthcare and univeristy and an effective doubling of minimum wage ($15), along with a link to productivity ($22).

    • You can see the parallels with the Brexit vote in the UK. The Leave campaign won by arguing that the UK funds to the EU would be spent on increasing the NHS budget. This has yet to happen, if it ever will. The Sharia May government isn’t helping by announcing that any foreigner is allowed to settle in the UK if the agree to work in the NHS for a certain time.

  28. A friend of mine tells the story about how his father was adamant about speaking English and not Russian. He said they were now Americans and were to speak English. I heard similar stories about my family and not speaking Czech.
    The point is these people knew how lucky they were to be American citizen and acted accordingly. The current elite only want to better themselves, in days past they would have been called traitors.

    • I very rarely heard my grandparents speak Russian. The exceptions were when they had an argument and did not think anyone was around to hear them. The point of using the old tongue was to convey anger. My parents knew only English, as they never heard anything else at home. This is pretty common for the immigrants that came during the late 19th and early 20th century. The natives were hostile to foreign cultures and the immigrants, in general, understood the bargain on offer.

      • When I worked at Grumman Aerospace it was against company rules to speak a foreign language on the premises.

      • Immigration in the broad sense was still a terrible bargain for America . and while yes folks like you and some others have been good, broadly immigration served to dilute the culture as far back as 1850, put tons of people into the country whose political preferences are illiberal , removed comity and mainly served to fuel the aspirations of the greedy elite

        Worse baring atrocity of some kind you can’t fix it, political; preferences are heavily genetic

        That said a new functional sort of hybrid “White” culture made of Europeans can exist. It won’t be that stable or highly organized but it can be made to work, if and only if the Demography gets back to 85% European

        Any nation that doesn’t meet that criteria is Novo Brasil and will function at or near that level till it doesn’t

        • America in the 2nd half of the 19th century was an ’empty’ continent and could easily take in immigrants. There was only private assistance for the indigent. Immigrants wanted to fit in and were not lazy. It was not a terrible bargain. People are a resource not a burden particularly after the slaughter of the 1860’s. There is virtually no immigration today, only invasion promoted by the progressive elite.

          • We still didn’t need immigrants. The fertility rate was six or more children and assuming half died as was common , three would survive to adulthood

            Instead short sighted people who wanted cheap labor brought in groups of people who while European did not share the liberty driven ideals of the original founding stock

            The Know Nothings were correct

      • As a young child, I heard my mother and grandmother speak Russian to each other, and I definitely knew when they were talking about me! My Babushka died when I was 8, so I rarely heard Russian spoken again, unless my mother was with some friends who spoke the language. My Dad was a total “Yankee” with all his ancestors going back to England. Everyone from his line got here in the 1600s. For two whole centuries, with no new blood, they settled New England, upstate NY and Michigan, the in one fell swoop in the 1870s headed to Northern CA where my Dad was born in 1899. My mother showed up in San Francisco to attend college at UC Berkeley, where she met Dad. Her older sister had preceded her to study music. The Russian Revolution had pretty well decimated their family and no pity or consideration was given to my grandmother to extend her 6 month stay to keep house for her daughters. I have the receipts for various cash bonds she had to pay and the correspondence to the Immigration authorities requesting extensions. She returned to Russia to learn that her husband, a veterinary doctor studying animal plague/immunization development at field stations in Eastern Siberia and Mongolia (for which he was honored by the pre-Bolshevik governments) had been arrested. He died in the early 1930s in some sort of prison camp; he was “rehabilitated” in the 1950s after Stalin’s demise.

        I heard many humorous stories of the social mis-match between the educated immigrants (my mother’s family who referred to themselves exclusively as “emigres”) who had traveled throughout Europe and lived in China, were educated, cultured etc etc. But the Yankee stock stood firm as it was their Constitution that prevailed and protected those fleeing tyranny in those older, supposedly superior civilizations.

    • I heard this story probably 10-15 years ago back when the housing boom was going strong and illegals were running around everywhere mowing lawns and swinging hammers.

      As I remember the story – it was about a Mexican laborer who brought his family here – and was living here “illegally” – but working and supporting himself. He was interviewed locally and basically said: ” I am lucky to be here. I am making a much better living than I could have back in Mexico – and my family is treated much better. I appreciate this place – I tell my wife and kids – you must learn English – we must only speak English in public – we must try to get along here and learn about this place – I would like to stay if I could”.

      So that at least is a person I can respect. I can understand why somebody would run across the border for a better life – if I was stuck in a shit hole like Mexico – I would likely do the same thing. When a person tries really hard to integrate – I give the guy respect – and thank him for his efforts. But he still has to go back. I’ve been told my entire life I’ve got to respect the law. So – so does he. We can be nice about it – but he still has to go back – and so do all the rest of them. What I would tell them before sending them back is – stop running away and fix where YOU LIVE – and then maybe we’d all be happier

      • So that at least is a person I can respect. I can understand why somebody would run across the border for a better life – if I was stuck in a shit hole like Mexico – I would likely do the same thing.

        Re-think this as, “I can understand why somebody would run out on his family to get a better life.” The assumption that people who have zero loyalty to their community, neighbors and country will suddenly be great Americans because they are selfish is a bit baffling. They *could* be great additions, but they could just as easily be terrible additions. That’s why “wanting a better life” is not a good reason to come here.

        • “Wanting a better life” is a perfectly valid reason to emigrate. It is not an excuse to jump the fence.

          • They leave their countries, but complain about racism in our countries. Their “better life” is a conquest where the future white minority is subjected to a permanent leftist majority government. No country has ever become more rightist as a result of mass immigration.

            If they want a better life, pick up a gun and start fighting the cartels. Vote out the corrupt politicians. Stop having kids out of wedlock. Latin America has moral agency.

          • That may apply to us as well. I we want a better life should we pick up a gun and start killing corrupt judges and politicians? I think so. Maybe it is time to slaughter our opponents in the streets as well. We are at the point where we can only save our country by taking the law into our own hands.

          • “Wanting a better life” is the reason to minimize your tax bill by any legal method available. Cheating on taxes is theft, as things are currently constructed.

          • Cheating on taxes in a stable functional society is theft.

            You as a citizen when society in general works properly have an obligation to pay the cost of it.

            Cost shifting, tax dodges , wage arbitrage all that are fundamentally unpatriotic and unethical.

            Problem is right now the current society is an Anti White shit show run by looter oligarchs and Leftist nut jobs so the normal rules don’t apply. So such everyone has an obligation to take all he can grab legally.

            That said hard working immigrants are exactly who you don’t want as neighbors . They need to be at home fixing the society they were born in instead of fleeing to another one. Economic migration is across the board terrible in an age of automation

          • Government doesn’t create a stable society – the people who make up the society create one. In a country where the government is run by a bunch of leftists who use said government as an extractive mechanism to fund their own bullshit – cheating on your taxes and keeping money out of the hands of your enemies is the most “patriotic” thing you can do.

          • I highly doubt that anybody emigrates anywhere in hopes of a shittier life. That may be what they get – but it’s not what they hoped for and wanted.

          • Somebody wanting a better life makes sense, and I don’t hold it against him, but that’s no reason to let him live here.

            I wanted to bang Heather Graham back in the 90s. That was my idea of a better life. No sane man would blame me for wanting, but that doesn’t mean I could just go ahead without her cooperation. Sadly for me, she had better options at the time. I don’t blame her for that either.

        • You apparently didn’t read what I wrote.

          The guy was Mexican – and brought his family here. He told them to respect the country – and told them to speak English in public. He damn well knew that him and his family were going to have a better life here than in Mexico – and didn’t want to fuck it up.

          I said I can respect him and his urge to have a better life for his family.

          I didn’t say I’d let him stay here – he’d still go back.

          And I’d tell him to stay where he came from – and fix that instead of running away.

          The point I was trying to make was that not everybody is the same – and not every illegal is a complete and total shithead criminal.

          And – I DON’T CARE. I would STILL send them all back.

          Now try having this conversation with the typical leftist who will bring up stories exactly like this – and use said stories as some sort of reasoning point to argue that they should all stay here. My response would be:

          “Yeah , nice story. Sounds like the guy is really trying hard. I don’t care. He still broke the law and needs to take him and his family back to where he came from. Does he understand the founding principles of this country? Does he understand and agree with ALL of the amendments to the bill of rights? Does he fully grasp the mentality that this country was founded upon – or is his head stuck in Mexican and Spanish ways of thinking in regards to the law and culture? I’m willing to bet that he has no concept. Therefore he’s not a good addition to the country. I can be sympathetic to a point – but after that it’s tough shit time and he still has to go back. He can go back nicely – or go back the hard way – it’s his choice. I highly doubt that Mexico would look kindly on a bunch of gringos jumping the border and trying to change shit up down there. The same sentiments should apply here”

      • I don’t understand the downvotes. Seems clear to me. There are always special cases that can be argued for, but the rules are the rules. Play by them, don’t game them. (If you don’t like the rules, work to change them, don’t encourage people to break them). I think that is what you are saying. What’s not to agree with?

        • Dutch, the issue is beyond rules and beyond the formal organization of countries. As Z pointed out, if we decide to die on the hill of ‘legal’ immigration, the Establishment will simply expand the class of ‘legal’ immigrants. It is a question of blood, and always has been.

          • I’m good with zero legal immigration as well. At this point, I’m in for that. But if our rules allow a legal path, I don’t fault the immigrants for following that path. Simply roadblocking the system is the same mentality that is crossing Trump up right now, as the Left extra-constitutionally crosses him up every chance they get. We need to change the rules. We have a great opportunity, right now, to do so. Trump’s ju-jitsu with the Democrats yesterday is our biggest advantage. He’s really good at that sort of thing. We have the public support, it is too cowed to speak up, most of it, but the Loonies and the Dems have served up the issue on a silver platter. I welcome a “public conversation” on it. The Progs, Dems, and CoC RINOs are on the run. Kick ‘em while they are down.

          • LOL.

            I completely agree with it being an issue of blood.

            Seeing as how my blood runs about 90% English / Scottish and is descended directly from the founding stock of this country – I’d say a lot of you guys are playing on very shaky ground. Because the way I see it there’s even a lot of “white” people in this country who come from stock that hasn’t helped at all in keeping the ways of the founders.

            If I had to point a finger specifically – I start pointing in the direction of Popery…………………. The destruction committed by it’s adherents continues right up into the present day – and is also the same religious philosophy practiced by most of those over-running this country now.

            Be careful what you wish for…………………

          • Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Too many socialist third-world European ethnics try to evade their responsibility for the current mess and hide behind the “white” label.

            Worse, they point fingers at others and blame them “furren darkies” for the mess. Typical leftist misdirection. Sorry, no sale. The 16 and 17th amendments were passed after the 1880-1920 immigration tidal wave. Ditto for the 19th and the Federal Reserve and the 1968 GCA. Very few darkies around to blame.

            If you are a “white” with a last name ending in a vowel and you support the alt-right immigration platform you need to be deported first.

        • “We can be nice about it”

          I down vote because I disagree with this sympathetic attitude. These beaners know what they are doing. It isn’t just that they are invading (although that’s reason enough). They are hurting people.

          Being ‘nice’ is what got us here. We need anything but.

          • Mexico would never stand for gringos illegally migrating down South. They learned from the experience of losing Texas to Stephen Austin and friends.

            !Gentrificacion para Mexico!

          • It’s still possible to be nice – while saying “No”.

            It’s when somebody keeps insisting and continues to push and push that you have to resort to “Fuck off” and belligerence.

            Unfortunately – it seems the left has pushed the “US is open to all comers” thing so far that Fuck Off and belligerence is pretty much all we’ve got left to stem the tide.

      • ” working and supporting himself”.
        What utter nonsense. His kids alone cost in the $20-30 k a year to “educate”. He makes but a nugatory contribution to the degradation of the infrastructure he degrades. He cannot, by definition, if he is illegal, be making legal SS and income tax payments- and is committing fraud on a regular basis- , some poor bastard is likely to find that the Mexican felon has been illegally using his Social Security number.(and good luck fixing that) .

        Your piece of shit has found it easier to support and rely on the continued corruption of the American politician than fix those of his legitimate country.

        • Thank you for putting this issue in the proper framework. And a tip o’ the hat for the use of ‘nugatory’. Haven’t seen this used in decades.

        • And he’d push for social security for his chain migration parents and grandparents even if it means much less for yours, who actually paid into the system, while he smiles in your face and speaks English to placate you. Just human nature, though. Can’t blame him. So…

      • Now they spit in the parking lot. Making sure that you see them. It’s their country now, you see. Obama said so.

    • The first thing my immigrant mother did when she and my U.S. Army dad moved from France to the U.S. in 1962 was to take English classes. It was absurd (then) to think you could succeed in a country without speaking the language. Every January Mom registered as a resident alien at the Post Office, as required by law. She eventually took citizenship classes and passed her citizenship exam. She had to converse one on one with a judge for a few minutes, and read and write some English before getting final approval. She never spoke French at home as Dad and I were Anglos. Now, why even bother with citizenship? Illegals can get virtually everything they want without it. And where’s my voting ballot in Haitian Creole?

  29. “The state is now in service to foreigners.”

    You meant: “The state is now in service to (((foreigners))).”

    You’re welcome.

    • The State is really in service to Billionaires and their puppets in government. Billionaires see themselves as a global aristocracy and borders must be ended to bring in the one world order.

    • What’s with the ((( )))????
      Are you afraid to say “Jews”? What will happen to you if you do?
      Is it thought to be clever to post anti-Semitic slurs in a juvenile code?

  30. And there’s so much fake crying on TV that i first thought Kim Jong-un died!

Comments are closed.