What If You’re Wrong

A good rule that no one anywhere follows, is to contemplate the consequences of being wrong before doing something. For example, if legislatures had to post a wrongness analysis for every bill before they could be voted on, at least some of the terrible ideas would get stopped before becoming law. Of course, that is probably why such a thing can never happen, at least in a democracy. New ideas are about hope and nothing is worse than dashing the reformer’s hope for the future.

Even so, thinking about wrongness has its utility. For example, many people on the Right still cling to the idea that government cannot keep borrowing money. Going back to the 1980’s, perhaps even further, conservatives have been predicting that there is some limit to government debt. Ronald Reagan ran on this idea in 1980, when the Federal debt stood at $900 billion. Forty years later and the debt is $23 trillion, a number so large no one can imagine it.

Maybe there is no limit to debt. Maybe what conservatives think they know about public debt is wrong and disaster is not around the corner. If this were anything else, that’s how you would bet. If the weather had been sunny for forty years, despite daily forecasts calling for showers, you would have stopped listening to the weatherman a long time ago. Sure, he may be right eventually, but forty years of being wrong still counts for a lot. Maybe conservatives are just wrong about debt too.

Similarly, what if the growth of the state is not going to lead to a citizen revolt against a tyrannical government. This is another chestnut from the so-called conservatives that dates back to the age of Reagan. He ran on the argument that the government was the problem, not the solution. The per capita spending of government, in constant dollars, is close to double what it was in the Reagan years. That’s with the U.S. population growing by more than half in that same period.

Now, in fairness, there has been a negative result to this massive expansion of the state over the last forty years. It’s not that people are angry that it does too much, but that it does too little. This is true all over the West. The populist revolts are fueled by demands that the government do more to address the concerns of the people. It turns out that everyone was wrong about the size of government. The bigger it gets, the worse it gets at doing the basics and that’s what gets people angry.

How about multiculturalism? An axiom in dissident politics is that diversity plus proximity equals conflict. Many of the same people saying that were wrong about the deficits and the growth of government. Maybe they are wrong about this too. Maybe they are wrong in entirely different ways. What we know so far is the importation of fifty million barbarians has not caused the empire to collapse. It’s made society more fragile, for sure, but collapse is not in the cards, at least so far.

How about something closer to home? Many people on this side of the great divide, especially the former alt-right, are sure Trump is going down to defeat in the 2020 election. They argue that his pandering to civic nationalists, non-whites and Baby Boomers is alienating his real base. Further, they argue that he won in 2016 by getting racially aware whites out to vote. It is a gratuitous assertion, for sure, but it is a common argument on this side of the great divide. What if it is wrong?

Trump, despite his many faults, has proven to be a natural political athlete, one we have not seen in a long time. This is a guy who does everything wrong, according to political convention, yet comes out smelling like a rose. Remember when everyone said WW3 was upon us when he droned the Iranian general? How about those predictions about impeachment? He begged the Democrats to follow through with impeachment and here he is more popular than ever. Maybe he knows something.

It is very possible that Trump does know what he is doing with all the pandering to blacks, Hispanics, one-legged lesbian Elvis impersonators and so on. Further, maybe the votes of the alt-right, white nationalists, racially aware whites and so forth really don’t count for a whole lot in elections. It may be an uncomfortable thought, but in a wrongness analysis, it has to be a possibility. The evidence is pointing in that direction, so maybe all of these folks are wrong about Trump.

Inaction is largely based on the belief of some inevitability that no one dares question, because it is comforting. Generations of conservative white people voted Republican, based on their assumptions about debt and the size of government. That vote was not action, but inaction. They comforted themselves in the belief that inevitability would be the ultimate cure. It turns out that nothing is inevitable in the affairs of man. Things happen because men make them happen.

The other side of this, the people trying to harness the forces of society, never stop to wonder if they are wrong. As they work to gain control of events, they are so certain in their righteousness they resemble fanatics. They never wonder if they are wrong. They know they are on the right side of history. As Bertrand Russel put it, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

That is the place to start for all dissidents. What if we’re wrong? What if all of the critiques of and arguments for cosmopolitan globalism are wrong? What then? That’s start of the journey in search of an alternative to the prevailing orthodoxy. It is not only the questioning of conventional wisdom, but the questioning of the critics of the conventional wisdom. Maybe the reason for the current crisis is that everyone was wrong about the new world order that emerged after the Cold War.

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255 thoughts on “What If You’re Wrong

  1. The thing that the DR misses about Trumps touting how great he’s been for minorities is that: it’s directed as much at good-whites as it is at the minorities themselves, and that there is an element of political juijitsu at play too. (Same is true of his pro- Israeli stuff too btw).

    1) Increasing his support among blacks and minorities is great for him and all, but realistically the limit that he an get is probably 10% more of their vote than he got in 16.

    2) But the bigger play is the gettable suburban good- whites, primarily women, who were offended by his hyper masculinity and shamed by the left’s screaming of racism. Pointing out that he’s been good for “those people” too neutralizes some of the left’s charges.

    3). Which leads to the left ramping up the racism charges way past the point of ridiculousness, as seen in last night democrat N.H. joint press conference. Which further alienates suburban good whites.

    It’s typical Trumpian reading the situation and creating a win-win-win tactic.

  2. A political system can only be destroyed once. There is a limit to debt, and once crossed it simply isn’t going to be repaid. It will be written off in some form or fashion. So it’s impossible to destroy that system twice as hard if you double the debt once you’ve crossed the event horizon. We obviously have crossed that line, and so debt simply doesn’t matter anymore.

  3. Reagan was not wrong in thinking unlimited debt is impossible. Where he was wrong was thinking that politicians would vote to reduce debt before a catastrophe became inevitable. Instead they’ve just found ways to continue postponing the inevitable reckoning, hoping that they will be out of office when everything implodes. So far that bet has paid off. One day it won’t.

  4. Any republican who mobilizes evangelical Christians in swing states will win. In fact, it’s the only way a republican can win now. Guess what that means? Lots of abortion talk and Israel funding. White nationalists, race realists, patriots, neocons or any other conservative group are too small in number to be worth talking to or working for. Build that F ing wall and end immigration or even the Christians won’t be able to save us next time.

  5. Z is raising an important point and I can think of no better example of it than the idea that we are OK and going to be victorious because we have so many guns. It is OK that the other side wins all the cultural battles because we buy more guns. What if that is wrong? What if people realize that is wrong when it is too late (which it almost is)?

  6. Late to this, but re-examining premises pulled us back from the abyss however briefly. It’s hard to disagree with re-examining premises.

    A few responses, though, to the premises you think should be revisited.

    Yes, there are identity groups who are gravitating toward Trump. Even our disgust at virtue signaling cannot mask that. The reason, though, is likely the realization that black-run governments, to cite an obvious example, are disasters. Those who live in those jurisdictions already sometimes realize it.

    The Dissident Right has been shut out of the discussion so we can’t really gauge its size so it is ignored based on perceptions it is small. Would that change if actual numbers were known? Maybe. Can those numbers be known? The pressure to suppress that knowledge is overwhelming. We don’t know.

    Fifty million barbarians have not collapsed things yet. What will happen when there are one hundred million? If past behavior is indicative of future behavior, everyone knows the answer.

    Will advocates of government expansion cease to be advocates of government expansion when they pay for it and others benefit from it? We achieved Peak White Guilt some time back so probably not.

    But these are good questions to ask. Maybe if premises had been question even a generation ago we wouldn’t be on a trajectory that doesn’t seem destined to end well.

  7. We have about 5000 years of written human history to go on, and that history boils down to sacrifice. You can’t get something for nothing. You have to give something to get something. Endless deficit spending turns this all on its head. You can’t get something without sacrifice. You sell more bonds to fund what you want. We’ve been in a bull bond market since about 1983. We’ve also been in a bull stock market since 1983. They’ve had their ups and downs but generally, they’ve gone up. Could we go another 20 years without either correcting? Sure. Is it likely? No. They will give us “quantitive easing” as far as they eye can see, but history suggests that it will end in a deflationary bust followed by an inflationary reaction as the central banks manically re-inflate. If a government could sell bonds to a bank that does its bidding ad infinitum, and fund itself perpetually, leveraging ever higher without a breaking point, wouldn’t this have been figured out by about 1000BC?

    • “If a government could sell bonds to a bank that does its bidding ad infinitum, and fund itself perpetually, leveraging ever higher without a breaking point, wouldn’t this have been figured out by about 1000BC?”

      The entirety of subsaharan Africa did not invent the wheel for 10,000+ years, and you’re confused on why people didn’t figure out incredibly complex financial scams until now? I mean, they have been working on this one for centuries, maybe they figured out how to keep it running long term. YMMV on what “long” means, but it’s over 1/2 a century at this point.

      Here is the deal. The fed gives the US Treasury US dollars for us t-bills, then the treasury uses those dollars to buy things. Until people don’t take US dollars, it keeps working, and everyone who has to buy us military paraphernalia and pay US taxes have to have us dollars. As long as big corporations do business in the US, as long as we have an income tax, or people buy our crappy used fighters, or people keep liking money, MMT keeps working. The only way all of those break at once involve mushroom clouds, so counting on a debt collapse scenario is, well, insane.

  8. Getting things wrong is what the Right does. It’s practically what defines the Right.

    Until recently the Left could just watch the Right fuck up and take it from there, but now they are even worse. That’s why I think worrying about being right or wrong is overrated at this point. On that note, calling Trump a good politician is a stretch. His “success” so far is due to his enemies being more incompetent — and corrupt — than he is. The only real talent he has that’s relevant to being president is dealing with the media.

    Now it’s more about who can endure more “beatings” than being right or wrong.

    • Dreher’s problem is that he remains attached to a meek version of Christian belief that can’t fathom taking up arms against his oppressors. His solution is withdrawal via the Benedict Option, hoping to be able to preserve a remnant of the faith during the persecution that is likely to follow if (when) the Left gains total power. He’s also unable to embrace HBD, although he’s not a total cuck like David French for example. He is noticing, however, but it will take a lot to push him over to this side of the great divide.

  9. There are two factors that complicate any analysis.

    First is latency. Related to low v.s. high time preference, something that gives strong immediate pleasure, like spending from inflation or deficits (the latter, government or personal credit cards), or smoking, can easily overwhelm what is an abstract thought of several decades hence – something that might not come to pass, or by that time can be mitigated or cured.

    The second is the tradeoff at the margins. If I asked how much of your privacy you would give up, you probably would say very little. Ok google, have Alexa, Siri, and Cortana do a privacy check… Or even the current tepid economy. We have cheaper stuff, but also devastated wages and employment at the lower end. We have “sexual liberation” but there is no deep emotional connections – the zombie apocalypse is here, only the people are generally physically healthy though their spirit has departed. Gas used to be $0.10/gallon, now it is about $3. Which tracks well with the price of gold and/or silver.

    Frogs jump out when the water gets too hot, but the slow boil applies. We would not accept a 95% devaluation in any short periot, but have accepted it over the long haul. You might have saved in Gold, but the FAANG stocks are flying high, and TSLA went into orbit.

    There is a destructive positive feedback loop on some human behaviors. That is why patience, prudence, temperance, justice, and fortitude are necessary. Those are the smoke alarms that go off before you can see smoke or a fire. But the unpleasant noise has been shut off by most.

    The worst part is I can’t choose to opt out, at least not easily to go back to paying for gasoline in hard currency, finding a wife who is traditional, having a place where everyone will work until retirement. The vampire vultures of venture capitalism will swoop in and eventually convince someone to sell out.

  10. It is very possible that Trump does know what he is doing with all the pandering to blacks, Hispanics, one-legged lesbian Elvis impersonators and so on. Further, maybe the votes of the alt-right, white nationalists, racially aware whites and so forth really don’t count for a whole lot in elections.

    Yes, Trump knows what he’s doing. That’s how he got where he is. And yes, alt-right, white nationalists and racially aware whites do not count for much in elections. In fact, their racial determinism and inability to shut up about Jews scares off normies and serves as a bludgeon for the left to pound the right with.

    Trump gets more mileage from nabbing a few percent of the fuliginous vote than what he’d get from the “racially aware” given the negative baggage the racially aware would burden him with.

    He’s good at electoral math after all.

  11. Anyone who thinks that Trump is going to openly court White Nationalists is daft. I do think that the Trump ‘base’ is more red-pilled about anti-White attitudes than Trump. Still, I think Trump is using the age-old strategy of not giving anything to his supporters while specifically courting those on the fence. There is no room for petulance in realpolitik. Trump’s not perfect, and neither would be anyone else. The Trump was saying the right things in 2015/2016 and he’s *tried* to do some of the right things since getting re-elected, but he’s not a White Nationalist, *he’s a businessman from New York*. I’m glad we got him and hope that his success at courting the anti-immigration/free trade vote (that has been around since Perot) will inspire others in the GOP to *go farther*.

  12. I literally grew up reading right-wing paranoid books and newsletters, as they were then called. Funny your essay for today mentions two biggies of right-wingers: ever-escalating debt and revolt/revolution. I know a little of history (admittedly, much from reading said authors) but it’s a fact that an economic disaster (depression, runaway inflation) almost always precedes a revot or major political change. USA’s Depression is sort of an exception, although it did directly lead to abolition of the gold standard — near-revolutionary at the time — as well as the merry-go-round that started with FDR and the (up to then) unprecedented expansion of Federal powers.

    I recently did a “back of envelope” calculation: based on losses in our Civil War, when the USA population was roughly 1/10 that of today, we would have 5-10 million dead in a similar war. Even this would be a disappointment, as the non-white population of the USA is considerably above 10 million [evil grin].

    The world WILL end; we just have to keep slipping the due date.

  13. I disagree with Leftie on most things. I believe so much of what has gone wrong is due to Leftie. But I have actually stopped to think like Z on occasions – what if I’m wrong about all this? What if those snarling banshees are right? I’ll keep it short by saying that Leftie has never considered this. They are blinded by group think, self loathing and white knighting. They never consider the other side of the argument. That’s how I know we are correct.

  14. High government debt is a result of an aging society that has a high demand for bonds, because stocks are a risk tolerant young person’s investment. Governments relatively fund themselves with debt instead of taxes in this setup. It is a consequence of sexual degeneracy and demographic failure, but neocons successfully cast it as a strictly financial phenomenon.

  15. One of my favorite questions to ask my CivNat bro in law is: “where are all the Tea Party people” now that Trump has the highest year over year deficit in history…

    Conservatives seem to only care about debt when a DEM is in office. Just go to show that the people who pretend to be the most “principled” are the biggest liars and phonies.

    • It’s beyond clear that neither party is going to do a darn thing about the debt or the deficit. Worst case, I’m right and it will someday be a huge problem, at which point painful solutions will be unavoidable. Best case, as Z said, all those doom and gloom prognostications continue to be wrong.

      If I was Emperor, I’d do it differently, but I’m not, and our wonderful electorate wouldn’t give the time of day to any candidate who proposed the steps actually necessary to run at a surplus and eliminate the debt. The gap between revenues and spending is just too large.

      Plus, Presidents aren’t emperors or dictators. The debt and deficit problems are firmly in the hands of Congress. The President can spend neither more nor less than Congress authorizes. Everyone complains about the debt, but everyone votes for the Senator and Rep who are great at bringing home the bacon to their state/district, and the constituency for draconian reforms on or abolition of Social Security and Medicare are tiny. Most people I talk to seem to be of the mind “I paid into it all my life, and I want my money back.”

      It seems like a case where the public is getting exactly what it asks for.

      As for the last, caring about an issue only when it reflects badly on the opposing team isn’t hypocrisy, it’s tactics.

  16. Maybe the formula is
    The only way to keep the lid on is to silence complainers even harder That’s the way Britain has responded to vibrancy.

  17. For the first time ever, Bush/Obama made sure that NO shakeout ever occurred in response to the 2007 financial crisis. Government bailout “saved” the day, but in order to keep things propped up, the interest rate HAD to be held down — Indefinately. Millenials have never seen a normal financial adjustment cycle – yet they lost their home while growing up!

    Instead of shutting their doors in 2008, a lot of marginally profitable firms are now clogging up entry of new firms, thanks to a bottomless creditline.

    The FED’s new role in the economy is to temper the interest rate and prevent any hard landing – forever! What STILL appears to be a long recovery is nothing of the sort because money is simply being sucked into the stock market. Who wants a .5% interest bearing bond? Any small amount of inflation just magnifies the situation.

    No one knows what happens when we hit the negative rates zone (Germany is already there). But for certain, the very second the FED loses control of the interest rate, all of the heavily overrated assets (especially stocks) will unwind before nightfall.

    That blip the other month indicated that banks were unwilling to loan to other banks on the overnite market — because they KNOW the underlying securitized assets are grossly overvalued. The press does NOT want the public to catch on and panic.

  18. Several years ago I looked around the internet and found a receipt for a slave, indicating someone paid $300 for the right to the slaves future earnings. Compare that to a Treasury bond, which also gives the holder the right to the future earnings (interest) of laborers. Every new bond issued by the “government” enslaves us a little bit more.

  19. My current analysis, after Curtis Yarvin in “The Clear Pill.” He divides society into Gentry, Commoners, and Clients.

    The point about Trump is that he represents the Commoners. His rise is the Rise of the Commoners. And Rush LImbaugh, with his 30 year run on AM radio, is the Voice of the Commoners.

    What do Commoners want? They want the system to work so they can have jobs and families and homes and SUVs. They are not educated, but they have learned a lot of common sense and skill. They are not ideological, but they are tribal. Their tribe is the Nation.

    What if this analysis is wrong? Well there are plenty of ideologies out there from left and right. Are they working any better?

    • That sounds pretty good! The group you are describing was the Jacksonian Democrat of old. The people who got things done, made the country run, and didn’t need to be told what to do. They weren’t intellectuals – their role was far more important as the glue of society. They were the (mostly) Protestant petty burgeouis who built the country and the expansion – before the waves of everyone else were brought in to unionize and start a class warfare. DeToqueville described them as he met them up and down the Mississippi and Midwest. The very people who are most hated today!

  20. Bit of an odd poast so I’m going to go off topic: Buttigieg is literally a CIA operation.

    I can describe further how we know this.

    Personally, I have family members who ran three letter agencies and a couple who are still in the game so I thought this was obvious about mayor Pete…but if you don’t have familiarity with the signals allow me to go on:

    1. Pete’s dad is an “immigrant” from a sketchy terrorist-adjacent type country who just moved here and copped a tenured professorship at one of Americas most important national universities and one that happens to provide a lot of “rock-ribbed Republican but educated dork” types to DC. It also has a very incestuous, insular alumni network.

    1a: what you need to understand about intelligence assets is that they are neither necessarily those in power (if we’re not in control of their country) or necessarily those who pose the biggest threat (like terrorists).

    The people involved in US intelligence are precisely the people who naturally associate with the people who live in their countries because they’re working for the US state department.

    Who you would find at a cocktail party of globohomo faggot diplomats is exactly who their local sources are.

    Remember, when you ask the question right it answers itself. Jungle guerillas and terrorists aren’t going to CIA cocktail parties for the bourgeois cosmopolitans and therefore the CIA guys don’t actually know dick about what’s going on with them. It’s that simple. But they do know what’s going on with the type of guy who would be comfortable as a professor at an American University.

    2. Mayor Pete won a fake award in high school that allowed him to network with the Kennedys. I don’t think there’s anything else to explain here.

    3. Went to Harvard, of course. Where he wrote his poli sci shithead thesis about a famous novel describing an undercover CIA agent in a war zone that turned into a quagmire. I’m not kidding.

    4. Got a Rhodes scholarship for no particular reason. Why? Because this is what the Rhodes is. It has nothing to do with selecting the smartest students and everything to do with people being groomed.

    5. After Oxford he then worked for the Cohen Group. once again, I’m not kidding. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cohen_Group

    The firm was founded in 2001 by former United States Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen to help multinational clients expand overseas.

    If you don’t understand that a company like this is just directly joined at the hip to intelligence…I don’t know what to tell you.

    6. He was involved with a “security think tank” in DC. I’m going to have to once again pass on explaining how that is intelligence.

    7. He worked at Mckinsey. McKinsey is big enough to have plenty of people who arent intelligence but it also has obvious reasons for keeping ties to intelligence.

    8. He was involved in Democratic campaigns. He was politically connected from a young age.

    9. He was commissioned as a Naval intelligence officer. Navy intelligence, in particular, is the most transparently fake part of the “service” you could publicly describe on your resume or in a campaign speech. It is just outright the CIA but you get to wear a uniform and call it military service.

    I don’t know how else to explain this because it’s just an empirical fact. if you know anything about intelligence faggots in DC you would know what “civilian but former Naval intelligence officer” means.

    10. Despite being a complete nobody in national political accomplishments he immediately started CRUSHING everyone in raising money from the most connected big swinging dicks. Those guys didn’t know who he was; they were *told* who he was.

    He is 100% an active intelligence agent right now somehow running for office as a civilian. This is sick shit and not one journalist has said a peep.


    • Like every other candidate in recent memory he’s getting those Goldman Sachs folks on board.

    • I’m sold. It’s not as if the Deep State hasn’t been trying to “normalize” overt political action by the DS for years now – Brennan’s talking-head appearances, McRaven’s treasonous call for removing his CINC, etc… At least when HW ran he had to downplay the spook thing. Now it makes Russiagate LARPers flush with patriotism.

    • There are the hangers-on like Biden, who never go away, and then there are those who get vomited up out of nowhere into the big time. From nowhere to big-time is an interesting tell. c.f. Obama.

    • Yep. And he’s the nominee now. Dems went from panic over Sandernistas Brown Wave to happiness over Mayor Buttplug. Road tested rigging the Caucuses who do you think will count the votes in November?

      President Buttplug. Get ready for it. Gay will be mandatory for all White men. Who will be forbidden from owning anything or voting or holding office save Mayor Pete Buttplug. Forever wars we are forbidden from winning, woke stuff every where, open borders, punitive and confiscating taxes aka France all coming.

      The Deep state will not tolerate us any longer.

      See you at Manzanar.

    • 100% with you on our friend the Spook. Malta is quite the glam circuit for diplomatic intrigue and petrodealings. His father was brought over during Cold War as expert on all matters cultural Marxism and Gramsci in particular. Pete has absorbed this stuff like water. He knows /understands propaganda!

      Apparently he didn’t do any training at the Defense Language Institute – which might indicate he wasn’t going to be put into a field post that requires perfect language skills.

      Gays are rich and politically active and, for now, the gay agenda has the greatest potential as a wedge against conservatives, as well as dominate the Dem party. They are the shock troops of the culture war.

      Mayor Pete is going places. Maybe not right away, but eventually.

  21. The fact that most of us have gone through major transformations in world view to get here suggests that we’re guys who test our opinions for “word to world fit.”

    We’re thinking and debating here and now as part of the testing process.

    Most of Us are not so “connected” that they’re giving up a seat at the table of power in order to be with Us. The conflicted interests don’t run as deep as you’d see with one of TPTB becoming a dissident. The truth is a luxury we can afford. Red pills are cheap, blue pills are expensive.

    We’re just giving up the same old daily sh*t-sandwich for a sh*ttier sandwich and an opportunity to break out of this joint. The food in the Empire’s prison psych-ward for haters is even worse than the cafeteria but we might have a shot at busting out from there.

  22. Question Z. Is this meant for us to do some legitimate reflection or just to black pill the ever living shit out if us?

  23. I predict that Trump’s unashamed pandering to blacks (pardons and payouts) is going to work: he will get 1-5% more of a black vote that will already be depressed by 5-10%. This will produce an electoral landslide in the neighborhood of a 1972 or 1984.

    If this is achieved against a DNC-imposed candidate it may well break the Left-Neoliberal coalition apart and this will be Trump’s greatest achievement.

    In this scenario, Orange Faggot Bad whining from the sidelines is self-marginalizing stupidity. Better to be seen as inside the tent pissing out or at least pissing off everyone around you by unashamedly saying you are there because Trump is the candidate of white men, whatever else he may be.

    It might help to adopt an every-other-year approach : odd years are for metapolitics, even years are for politics as such. Which is to say metapolitics more subtly deployed during a political campaign. This is the best we can do until dissidents begin to participate in electoral politics directly, either as candidates or self-declared voting blocs.

    The point is to become a permanent and accepted fixture in the political arena. This is what the Enemy is trying to prevent above all. And getting in the arena means getting your hands dirty.

    • I see a few problems with this scenario. First, we’ve got (likely) 4 more years of Trump. After that, who will even pay lip service to our agenda? Pence? Whatever cucks the Vichy Right puts up against the next generation of Democratic lunatics?
      We’re not going to get a permanent, much less accepted, place at the table in a post-Trump political landscape.
      Whatever we do, we’ve got 4 years to do it.

      • I am less interested in being told what I want to hear than being able to tell other people what I want *them* to hear.

        Election campaigns provide a predictably scheduled opening for this.

        If our men and women had shown up at the Iowa caucuses en masse and done nothing more than hold up #WHITESFORTRUMP signs it would have made global news and served as a useful consciousness-raising exercise.

        Whites as such must become aware of begin to display their political strength before we can expect anyone else to recognize this.

    • Veg, if we’re going to be a persistent bloc in electoral politics, our coalition has to first learn to vote their own interests over all of the rule of law/magic paper Talmudry, Second Founding mythology.

      I can see a future coalition of dissident Right parties going Groyper on the candidates and grading them for White interests someday but the dissidents need social and cultural footing to fight that way. We’re still finding the places around America and elsewhere where we can settle, travel and otherwise live while laying the foundations for that sort of broader political movement.

      I’m skeptical on electoral politics but they may prove more useful than I think depending on how events play out over the next 10-20 years.

      • If I can channel J-Bo for a moment:

        We have a vanguard, disorganized as it is. What we need is to link the vanguard to the will of the mass.

        I see electoral politics – the process, not the product – as one of the best spaces in which to do this.

        Our biggest problem is not the usual suspects or the cucks or the debt or even immigration. Our problem is the masses of white people do not know who they are.

        Trump showed the way: the media will give you free air time and allow you to live rent-free in the heads of the audience if you only do or say something outrageous or taboo, like “Trump is the best candidate for white people.”

        2016 made the Alt Right, not the other way around.

        This is what continues to be misunderstood.

        So I say force the issue back into the open when the largest number of people happen to be paying attention.

        Make them disavow us, every chance we get, over and over.

        If only 1% of the white electorate decided that there was nothing wrong with being #WhiteForTrump in 2020, what will this mean for those voting while white in 2022, or 2024?

        Maybe that linkage of vanguard to mass begins to form.

        Alls I’m saying is think about it.

        • Veg you make good points – particularly about the fact that the Trump-Alt-Right coalition was a feedback loop. Trump’s potential as an uber-elite-tier disruptor made a lot of us bolder. My own red-pilling would have been much slower without 2015-2016 Trump.

          Our problems with GoodWhites and non-Whites are also interrelated – we shouldn’t ignore the fact that the Usual Suspects are hammering away at Whitey 24/7, but if 90% of Whites just said “no” and did what was good for Us, all the (((Theys))) would be relatively harmless.

          One of the benefits to our community strategies is that they serve both separatist and reform agendas. If BadWhites physically come together it enhances our systemic political influence as well as building “backup networks” necessary for when and if the system falls down.

          • I think some of our enemies see this all much clearer than we do:

            “Every move to normalize the AfD as a democratic party, however small, helps them to gain a foothold in the mainstream. Every inch they gain in state government in turn serves as a springboard to make the leap nationally. It is thus in some ways appropriate that this would begin in Thuringia, where the Nazis first entered a state government in 1930 and began testing strategies to eventually absorb the German polity whole without firing a single shot.”

            Clearly the systems are different, but the enemy’s strategy remains the same: deny legitimacy by any means necessary.

            If the idea behind the community-building strategy is to move to Thuringia, USA with the idea of quickly becoming first an annoyance, then a veto and finally a kingmaker in local and state politics, then I support it. All politics is not local but there will never be a locale free of politics.

            Otherwise I think people should stay put, holding and improving with family and friends unless the zerg are in the wire.


  24. The debt doesn’t matter because no one seriously believes that it will ever be repaid; when it becomes too burdensome, it will be defaulted or hyperinflated away. The system will not collapse as long as present production of real goods is adequate for present consumption.

    The real problem is that the people producing those goods marry late and have very few children while low-IQ heavily-tattooed petty criminals are fathering babies all over the place.

    • The real problem is that the people producing those goods marry late and have very few children while low-IQ heavily-tattooed petty criminals are fathering babies all over the place.

      If they were White low-IQ heavily-tattooed petty criminals, I wouldn’t care much, but even poor Whites are reproducing below replacement rate.

  25. What if deficits don’t matter because a hard reset is planned? The old dollar goes away, the $trillions in debt go away, and we start from scratch. A “Super EBT” card gets the reboot started. Much of the population, especially the younger generations, is already conditioned to accept such cards as normal. Less than 2% of the population is involved in food production, so that’s a relative handful that our masters have to keep happy. Distribution adds a bit more. Hardly anyone who was making serious bank before. Sure it’d be a mess, and there’s all kinds of ways it could go wrong, but there doesn’t seem to be any serious attempt to stop the system from going kaboom. I’d still want to be very good friends with nearby self-sufficient farmers. If you’re not familiar with pasture-raised meat now’s the time to learn.

  26. I read the book several years ago called Peak Oil which told us the world was running out of oil… soon.
    I bought into the theory.
    The world is truly running out of oil. Just not soon.
    I thought killing Soleimani would harm us in the Middle East. It probably will. Just not soon.
    Empires have fallen all through history due to high debt loads.
    I view it like the difference between a car crash and a worn out car.
    Empires usually don’t crash in a big event like the French Revolution or the Bolshevik Revolution.
    They just wear out.
    As Z has said before about the deterioration of Rome.
    The aqueduct stops getting routine maintenance and one day it doesn’t work at all and nobody knows how to fix it.
    Or the Spanish just don’t build that ship anymore.
    In our case we talk about the moon and Mars but can’t make an app work in Iowa.
    Our debt load and immigration policy will get us alright, but maybe not soon.

    • But how are you enjoying the Ice Age predicted in the early 70s? Ready for some global warming, yet?

    • Shale is such a money loser we probably hit “peak profitable oil” during the Bush years, on average. Using less oil, mostly by buying on Amazon instead of retail so far, was by far the better investment.

  27. How many Americans are now sufficiently based to be considered DR? A few hundred? A few thousand? A couple of million? I have no idea but my impression is that the DR is, by numbers at any rate, still a very small, outlier phenomenon. We may be more numerous than one-legged lesbian Elvis impersonators but that’s a very low bar.

    Given that, would it not electoral suicide for Mr. Trump to base his policy platform on appealing to the DR instead of ticking the boxes for normies who, let’s face it, constitute the broad mass of America and everywhere else?

    We in the DR have exited from the current paradigms but we can hardly expect politicians who need to win elections to come chasing after us.

    • We may be more numerous than one-legged lesbian Elvis impersonators but that’s a very low bar.

      You say that now, but when their army limps to the crest of the hill to the tune of “Love Me Tender’ and the sun glints off their sequined softball shirts, and the whole world seems to pause, you’re going to be sorry.

  28. Another question you might ask is: what did you get?

    The U.S. is in debt to the tune of $23 trillion, a staggeringly large number. What did we get for $23 trillion? It’s enough money to not just send every single American to Harvard, it’s enough to buy an entire Harvard Yard for each American. It is an incredibly large amount of money.

    So… what exactly DID we get? Can we point to it? Do we all have flying cars? Where are our moon colonies?

    Let’s see… Lunatic wars for the Jews, approx. $10 trillion.

    Bailing out Jewish bankers, roughly $8 trillion.

    Paying off blacks with backstage AA graft through crooked Obama-era fake “infrastructure” projects, probably about $2 trillion.

    The remaining $3 trillion, I have no idea.

    So, roughly $20 trillion for Jews and minorities, with nothing gained in exchange.

    Maybe we could buy $3 trillion worth of pitchforks, lampposts, rope, and ovens.

    • Cat, based on one of Trump’s verbal spasms in 2016, I hoped he’d be the guy to sit the world down and say “all of our books are cooked and no one is paying any of this back. Let’s re-set this thing.” At least get the ball rolling in the public mind.

      A worldwide creditor haircut is what we’re eventually going to have by dint of collapse but the idea of managing the landing is something our creditor class refuses to consider. Debt forgiveness is an evergreen populist issue though and no matter the political climate its going to be very hard for a 1% creditor class to perpetually dupe the debtor class. That weapon’s going to be there when the time is right to start swinging it.

      In the game of rock-paper-rope, paper always loses. Game on, Shlomo. Molon labe.

    • In the last ten years we’ve indebted ourselves to the tune of $1.5 for every $1 gain in GDP

    • Cool cats. We got “things” in two areas: War and Welfare. Both have zero relationship to investment, which is sort of what your post speaks to. In the long run, only true investment can be expected to grow the pie for future generations.

    • https://www.gao.gov/assets/670/665575.pdf

      that links to a GAO 2014 report which audited the properties and assets held by the Pentagon worldwide. what did you get for $23 TRILLION in debt to the Greatest War Machine in history?

      here is what you got:

      “557,000 facilities (buildings, structures, and linear structures), located on over 5,000 sites worldwide, covering more than 27.7 million acres, and with a value of approximately $828 billion.”

      “data for the Air Force showed a utilization rate of 0 percent for 22,563 buildings”

      and the other branches of the military have equally low utilization rates (less than 50% or they simply don’t know a number because they are not even tracking their vast acquisition of properties) of their tens of thousands of buildings in over 100 countries.

  29. I’ve often asked “What if you’re wrong?” when I share the salvation of Jesus Christ with non-believers and they tell me it’s all just religious nonsense. I’m not sure which is harder for people to wrap their heads around; the concept of eternity or the consequences if they’re wrong about accepting Christ.

    • That’s the classic “Pascal’s Wager.” My experience is that it is effective only among a small, extremely pragmatic portion of the population. I’m not much of an evangelist, though.

      • Superficial tactical belief in God b/c game theory isn’t exactly what Jesus was talking about. If the Christians are right, Pascal’s still knocking on the gates wondering where he went wrong.

        The idea that you can lawyer around God by technical compliance was in the Jewish spirit of the Law that Jesus preached against.

        Check out Dan Taylor’s “Skeptical Atheist” for a Christian perspective that mostly lines up with how I see the question of belief vs. non-belief. Lotta devils in the details though, and I don’t subscribe to “World Christianity for all mankind,” FWIW.

        For the most part, Faith > No Faith > Chosen.

        • Pascal was much more than his wager. From his Pensees: “Therefore I shall not undertake here to prove by natural reasons either the existence of God, or the Trinity, or the immortality of the soul, or anything of that nature; not only because I should not feel myself sufficiently able to find in nature arguments to convince hardened atheists, but also because such knowledge without Jesus Christ is useless and barren. Though a man should be convinced that numerical proportions are immaterial truths, eternal and dependent on a first truth, in which they subsist, and which is called God, I should not think him far advanced towards his own salvation. “

  30. Being wrong about something, and then having to face the consequences of that error, is the essence of evolutionary fitness selection. If you were living on the savanna and one day decided that the big kitty needed petting; well, you probably got eaten and wisdom abounded for the rest of the tribe. Today, being wrong has no feedback mechanism of existential consequence. Push the restart button on the video game and presto!, no real consequence to stupidity. Perhaps all reality will become a video game soon and it won’t matter.

  31. Now I’m going to have to go back and reassess my attitude toward MLK. Maybe after all he WAS the greatest human being ever to walk the earth…

  32. “What If You’re Wrong” is a simplistic subset of analysis of reality. I don’t mean that pejoratively, as simple does not equal dumb. WIYR is the beginning of analysis/examination of a phenomenon or course of action.

    Take the US gov’t debt, for example. It has gone apey, no doubt about it. Many economic explanations are given as to why the US system has not yet crumbled. Many OTHER countries have gotten as inverted as the USA and then gone tango uniform, so what is the deal? Given reality, the US CAN go apey into debt–$23T worth– without collapse. *Reagan and his acolytes were wrong*, on the scale of Reagan’s and his contemporaries’ life spans.

    I think the answer lies outside economic(1) or political analysis and lies in the realm of fear/security. Put plainly, the US benefits from immunity to invasion. The harbor may be polluted with sewage, but it is still a SAFE harbor for everyone around the world to park their money in cash, real estate, etc. Island nation tax havens can be intimidated in one afternoon by a hostile gun boat. Most every Eurasian polity can be invaded by its neighbors. And the US gov’t is pretty stable relative to governments elsewhere. How many other 1st world countries have had the same form of gov’t, without interruption, invasion, or violent transition, as long as the US? I can think of Sweden, Switzerland, UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. the first three are subject to invasion. Canada and New Zealand could not stop an invasion. Astralia is the closest analog to the USA as far as a safe harbor. and guess what? Australia gets a torrent of oriental cash poured into it by orientlas seeking a safe place for their wealth.

    Which brings us to WIYR analysis that indicates YOU’RE WRONG. Figuring out WHY is important. WHY can tell you if you need to consider an alternative or work to knock the impediment out of the way. With the debt example, I think we can discount USA’s collapse due to barking crazy levels of debt as long as the USA is perceived as a safe haven.

    Therefore, economic collapse due to debt is likely a follow-on effect of some sort of other collapse(2) that increases the collapse’s severity.
    (1) Unexplored Country for Marxists, Libertarians, and our current globohomo ruling class. All think of man as an economic unit, a squishy cog in a great machine. Economic factors rule all. Anything outside of that will crash their models.
    (2) A collapse the removes the perception of the USA as a safe harbor.

    • Except for the fact that all of those countries, the U.S. included, HAVE been invaded, and continue to be invaded, on a daily ongoing basis, and no defense has been mounted.

      The U.S. has been invaded and conquered so decisively that we are on the brink of having imposed on us, through our own conquered systems, a permanent racist totalitarian genocidal dictatorship. Similar things are true about Sweden, Canada, Australia, etc.

      Not only have these countries been invaded, their native populations are being systematically destroyed. And not only are the natives not doing anything about it, not even complaining about it, they are PAYING FOR IT THEMSELVES.

      • Yeah, the US is much more diverse than the other comparable countries. There’s no equivalent in their countries of the demographic change in California.

      • Did I not mention sewage in the harbor?

        You’re preaching to the choir, bud, regarding the immivasion. Still, immivasion is not seen as a destabilizing force and thus not part of safe harbor calculation by most the globohomo set and others with the wherewithal to move money to the USA.

        And even if they do allow themselves to see the truth, the US has a white genocide problem, but a lesser african & muslim problem. Squatamalans are not perceived as threatening as muzzies and africans.

        Thus, USA is still the safe harbor of choice for folks with money to protect.

    • ” the debt example, I think we can discount USA’s collapse due to barking crazy levels of debt as long as the USA is perceived as a safe haven.”

      I wonder if you’ve inadvertently answered the question as to why the democrat machine seems to dislike Sanders so much; they fear his damaging the perception of security.

      • That’s EXACTLY why I am voting for Sanders in the primary. I’ll still vote for Trump in the general b/c 4 more years will imo be useful in exciting our dormant sociological immune system. Drain the swamp or burn (Bern) it to the reeking ashes. I have no hope of the former/

    • A lot of our problems and our puzzlement about the way things are stem from the fact that Westerners in general and Americans especially have lost any sense of what the vast majority of the planet is still like. I’ve always found it odd that people who claim to be “multicultural” also just blithely assume that somehow, under all those other skin colors and tribal headgear, everyone on earth is really a flabby suburban white guy with a pickup truck and a copy of muh Constitution in his back pocket at heart. This is why so many Americans dismiss concerns like we have as either absurd or racist.

      You can also explain some seeming paradoxes this way too. Why do people keep parking their money in the US? It must not really be so bad! Sewage in the harbor? I don’t see any. Well no, it’s there, it’s just that all the other harbors still have more sewage – at the moment. America has been playing the zombie footrace game well for a long time. That is, you don’t have to be faster than the zombies, just faster than the guy behind you. Eventually though you’re the one at the rear of the pack.

  33. The endless monetization of debt has a reality check in the bond market. ZIRP, or even negative rates in Germany, are indicators of low or negative expectations of economic growth. Massive expansion of the “money” supply is not producing an increase in bond yields, not only because no one believes in organic growth of the economy but because above a certain level the interest burden on the debt, payable to the private owners of the central banks, cannot be met. Jeff Gundlach put the “line of death” at 2.7% on the 10 yr, IIRC. The last time we crossed that, in Oct-Nov 2018, with rates as (haha) astronomically high as 3.2%, it spelled doom for the equity markets, which collapsed in Dec 2018, completing the plunge on Dec 24. (Current 10yr yield is 1.66%, up from last week’s 1.52%)

    It’s why skeptics say the Fed (ie. the private owners of the CBs) have backed themselves into a corner. They can’t meet the interest obligations on the ballooning notes, so low rates ruin savers, force everyone, even insurance companies, into the equity markets to chase yield, and imply lack of organic growth for a long time to come.

    It is, as everyone here knows, the literal equivalent of reanimating a moribund patient with cocaine. Works for a while, but then it doesn’t.

  34. There are plenty of historical and contemporary examples of what happens to governments that engage in massive currency devaluation, which is a necessary feature of maintaining unimaginable amounts of debt. Only the US dollar’s status as the world reserve currency protects us, and that status will not last forever.

    As both a software engineer and a rancher, I have spent my life dealing with “what can go wrong?” I annoy the hell out of my family with what they regard as meaningless rituals regarding things like gates:

    “Dad, there’s not even any animals in the farmyard. Why do we have to keep the gate to the road latched?”

    “Because there are often animals in the farmyard, and if we get in the habit of not leaving the gate latched, sooner or later those two factors are going to coincide.”

    “I’d remember to latch the gates before I let any animals in.”

    “That’s not the way to bet. There is no downside to having the gate latched when it doesn’t need to be, but having it open when it needs to be latched can be a catastrophe.”

    As Citizen of a Silly Country says, the inverse of a lot of the points you bring up are insanely stupid bets where at the very best, you are no better off than you were before.

    And, for the multi-cultural issue, your own oft-stated argument that “because it is our country and we want it that way,” is enough of a reason. I don’t have to cost justify that. I don’t care if the brown Utopia is going to be a smashing success; I don’t want to live there.

    I’m not wrong about the size of government, either. It is eating the nation alive. But again, I don’t have to be “right” in some neutral, objective sense; the world of paternalistic big government is not the world I want to live in. That’s my starting point, not the end process of my analysis.

    Zman, haven’t you said it is a mistake to worry too much about developing a cohesive ideology before we win, that ideology us sonething to be developed as a justification after the fact? I think the “what if I am wrong” question can be similar.

    While it is good to ask “what if I am wrong” from a tactical or engineering perspective, when it comes to your base beliefs, at some point you have to simply commit. Excessive second-guessing leads to paralysis.

    Thinking about that Russel quote, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

    That works two ways. We don’t want to be fools in our certainty, but the wise men so consumed by doubt that they are afraid to act are equally guilty.

    I haven’t been one of the Trump pessimists on the right. Experience shows he’s good at what he does, and I think he’s a net positive. He makes people think of nationalism as a valid option. That’s a start. I’m not fond of pandering to Blacks and Hispanics. I think it is the sort of short-sighted thing that got us where we are, but simultaneously, I don’t doubt that it is his best path to re-election, because the Goodwhites aren’t suffering enough yet to build a monolithic White vote.

    If he loses, that’s okay, too. Having Bernie and AOC trying to take the US full socialist will burn things down faster.

    I’m not a prophet. I don’t know which would be better, and it is not actually in my power to have much of an effect on it, so my predictions would be meaningless, anyway.

    • With apologies to the heroes of FinTwit, who taught me.
      When did we abandon the relationship between Taxation and Spending? Who was behind the Financialization of every aspect of the economy? (Otherwise known as the transfer of wealth from Labor to Capital.)
      Once Pricing became a cartel (backed by the FDIC) the cost of everything went haywire. (Housing, College, etc.)

      • When Uncle Samiel is creating the currency out of thin air and digitally helicoptering it to his corporate cronies via the Fed, price is meaningless – even more so when that pretend currency is the world’s reserve Clown Coin.

        This breakdown is why all of the fundamentals and laws can go off the rails yet we still have a superficially-functioning economy in a Frankenstein sense. It’s animate and goes through the motions of past economic activity, but something critical is missing.

    • Analysis paralysis came to mind for me when reading this as well. It’s advisable to check yourself regularly but the empirical evidence for human society points in (and away from) some consistent directions over our million years or so of history.

      The odds that we’re going to discover a hidden or delayed-onset upside for Clown World are small. We haven’t got the biology that wrong and “because we live here” is a pretty robust social hueristic – a bit more sturdy and straightforward than the vast mega-volume mythology that the “Athens and Jerusalem” crowd is selling.

      • “… because we live here” is a pretty robust social hueristic …”

        The American nation is now the largest people in the world not to have our own state. Our people are in possession of none of the control nodes (coinage, courts, media, manufacture of cultural products, etc) of our own civilization. We have been deliberately and systematically dispossessed.

        • “We have been deliberately and systematically dispossessed”

          I say “conquered ” it hits harder.

  35. Good post here.

    On a related note, the whole sovereign debt fret thing never concerned me much at all. I spent a few years starting in late 2007 at Karl Denninger’s site listening to people spewing the end of the world because of the national debt (you know, money we owe to our collective selves). Anyone here remember the poster over there @ Ticker Forum named Nothing? He/she constantly claimed a debt singularity moment was upon us, which would end the monetary system as we know it. Never happened. I get it that private debt can certainly get out of hand and create depressions/ recessions. I also understand that a government’s ability to monetize government programs with massive so called government debt creates larger government than if money was accrued through a balanced budget mechanism. But the sovereign currency issuer called the USA is not going out of business because they go bankrupt, unable to pay off its national debt. That’s fiction 101.

    • Brandon Smith does the same thing. He has called the debt crisis to hit the fan, and the Soros takeover of the world, weekly, for how many years running now? He has some interesting insights, but pounding the table, with no self awareness, gets old after a while.

      • Most of these doomsday artists are trying to sell precious metals or Argentine real estate. All you need is enough money saved up in gold or silver to see you through a four-year currency collapse. The rest is over-dramatized bullshit.

      • There should be a constitutional amendment that discharges all debts after 10 years or something like that. Meaning if you haven’t paid off your mortgage, student loans, etc. after a decade you’re free and clear. Same with sovereign debt. Let the banksters make a little profit on good loans but don’t let them become our masters.

    • Not my own thoughts, but it seems to make some sense to me:

      From what I understand, we do not “owe it to our collective selves.” We owe it to a central bank, which is privately owned by banksters. The threat is not the debt itself, but the interest payments – to whom are they made? essentially, it becomes a skimming operation and a wealth redistribution from the lesser to the richer. Who cares if the “debt” gets repaid as long as the banksters are collecting their interest payments (which are no doubt then converted into more stable assets than currency). In fact, the more debt the better, since the “money” loaned out is simply created from thin air.

      • When it is time for the debt to default, it will be packaged into securities to be sold to Joe Normie, aka “the Muppets”, to deal with. See 2008.

      • This is the essence of what they discovered with MMT and financialization. And they dont just do it with govt debt either. There is a reason stock buybacks are debt financed. The institutions that would have stopped this are fully conrolled.

        Cui Bono?

    • Philosophers talk about this thing called “reification”. It basically means mistaking some mental concept for a real thing. I think the error of most economists is that they reify money and its transactions without realizing that ultimately its all a symbol for something in the real world. Usually, the real thing is force. To paraphrase Mao “all economics flows from the barrel of a gun”. In this case the guns are those of the US global war machine. To put it another way, free markets require a hegemon of some sort.

      Foreign governments, individuals, and corporations “invest” in the “debt” the US issues. Translated, this means they pay protection money to the biggest gang in the neighborhood. In return the gang pretends it will pay its debt back and subdues smaller gangs that might become troublesome otherwise. Are those Somali pirates bothering you again? Donworryaboutit!

      Economists talk about the debt spiral, the process where borrowing more leads to more burdens on current income for debt service leading to more borrowing to meet basic expenses. Mathematically this explodes exponentially and becomes “unsustainable”. What if you just skip paying on your current obligations though? Or what if you just say to your creditors “you know I can’t really pay you 5% on my next loan, we’re gonna have to go with 2%, sorry about that.” Wow, why didn’t I think of that when I needed to refinance my credit cards? Of course this only works if you’re in a position to dictate terms to your creditors and they have little recourse. It just doesn’t work for you and me. Then again, we don’t have a nuclear navy or drone fleet.

      So the US can probably keep “borrowing” indefinitely as long as it still has a globally competent military that people are willing to pay protection money to. The current elite though is doing everything it can to erode the patriotism of all but most naive and it isn’t likely that a military machine composed of vibrants will be able to project power like the whiter and more cohesive one of the past. When the US is unable to meet its real obligations (to keep the world garrisoned) that’s when the economists’ death spiral will hit. This isn’t really a problem of debt though but of an incompetent elite. If the US had a strong industrial base to fall back on it might not be so bad. The same people flooding the nation with browns though were also busy at the end of the 20th century outsourcing everything to everywhere else. So, yes, endless borrowing IS unsustainable and the endgame WILL look an awful lot like the goldbugs and libertarians were right. The root cause though will be erosion of social trust and will to sacrifice for what is perceived as a worthless society.

      It’s also possible that some not-exactly-black-swan event could accelerate this process overnight. The US being dealt a humiliating defeat against a pathetic enemy or the US military being called back home to deal with a civil war. Again, this is not really economics at work though.

        • Well yes but there are different kinds of loss of confidence. There’s the loss of confidence that the dollar is really worth anything that might have some people buying gold, guns, and ammo, and the loss of confidence that the US can keep the Red Sea and Persian Gulf out of Somali (or Iranian) hands. In the end, yes, it leads to the same place which is a debt spiral and economic collapse.

    • It was the chaos of the king’s finances that finally resulted in the Estates-General’s being called into session in early 1789, followed by the beginning of the French Revolution with the fall of the Bastille in Paris in July 1789. But the new revolutionary authorities were as extravagant in their spending as the king. Vast amounts were spent on public works to create jobs, and 17 million livres were given to the people of Paris in food subsidies.

      On March 17, 1790, the revolutionary National Assembly voted to issue a new paper currency called the assignat, and in April, 400 million were put into circulation. Short of funds, the government issued another 800 million at the end of the summer. By late 1791, 1.5 billion assignats were circulating and purchasing power had decreased 14 percent. In August 1793 the number of assignats had increased to almost 4.1 billion, its value having depreciated 60 percent. In November 1795 the assignats numbered 19.7 billion, and by then its purchasing power had decreased 99 percent since first issued. In five years the money of revolutionary France had become worth less than the paper it was printed on.

      The effects of this monetary collapse were fantastic. A huge debtor class was created with a vested interest in the inflation because depreciating assignats meant debtors repaid in increasingly worthless money. Others had speculated in land, often former Church properties the government had seized and sold off, and their fortunes were now tied to inflationary rises in land values. With money more worthless each day, pleasures of the moment took precedence over long-term planning and investment.

      Goods were hoarded—and thus became scarcer—because sellers expected higher prices tomorrow. Soap became so scarce that Parisian washerwomen demanded that any sellers who refused to sell their product for assignats should be put to death. In February 1793 mobs in Paris attacked more than 200 stores, looting everything from bread and coffee to sugar and clothing.

      On whom did the burden of the inflation mostly fall? The poorest. Financiers, merchants, and commodity speculators who normally participated in international trade often could protect themselves. They accumulated gold and silver and sent it abroad for safekeeping; they also invested in art and precious jewelry. Their speculative expertise enabled many of them to stay ahead of the inflation and to profit from currency fluctuations. The working class and the poor in general had neither the expertise nor the means to protect the little they had. They were the ones who ended up holding the billions of worthless assignats.

      Finally, on December 22, 1795, the government decreed that the printing of the assignats should stop. Gold and silver transactions were permitted again after having been banned and were recognized as legally binding. On February 18, 1796, at 9 o’clock in the morning, the printing presses, plates, and paper used to make assignats were taken to the Place Vendôme and before a huge crowd of Parisians were broken and burned.

      and then on December 2, 1804, Napoleon was coronated as Emperor.

  36. As an aside related to Trump’s appealing to minority voters, Bob Weisberg had made the point that he is really trying to appeal to suburban whites, mainly females. They feel more comfortable voting for a party that is ostentatiously trying to appeal to blacks. It makes them feel more comfortable voting Republican.

    • It’s a definite possibility. On the other hand if he can pull 20% of blacks it’s over. Play it the same way, either outcome is a winner for him.

      • Trump getting 10% more of the black vote doesn’t impact many states on its own. Increasing and maintaining the gains he made among white voters makes a bigger impact in the electoral college.

      • Trump can’t “pull” 20% of blacks; it wouldn’t make any difference in the results if he could, and I’m pretty sure he knows that. He’ll win re-election in any case, be assured of that.

        • Don’t get me wrong I’m not a fan of the strategy because of the rhetoric/policy shift we’ve seen. I don’t like the compromises.

          I’ve heard 20% of blacks is the magic number for Republican dominance. I assume it’s because of all the people (like white suburban women) who’d come with it.

  37. Maybe he knows something.

    Or maybe the globalists know something, maybe they’ve got him real dirty on camera, the full Masonic initiation with all the bells and whistles, and the reason he seems so adroit, is that he’s a protected asset. How come nobody seems to be able to find serious dirt on Trump? Are the attacks against him just kabuki to boost his cred with his base? Are the globalists playing the MSM as useful idiots, feeding them bogus scandals about Trump?

    This doesn’t lead anywhere. At the end of the day, it’s a coin toss. Heads, you don’t believe in him and you are stabbing your champion in the back. Tails, you believe in him, and become a tool for George Soros.

    • I agree, we can’t know. The difference between school homework or even college math problems and then real life decisions is that in real life you never have all the relevant information.

      A more fruitful and important approach is probably to decide what is most important to you? I support gun rights, small government (not that any of us know first hand what that is), lower taxes and ignoring climate change. But it gradually became clear to me that demographic replacement of Western countries is what I care most about. Trump is very far from good on that. But he does seem better than the alternatives on offer.

      • But he does seem better than the alternatives on offer.

        That’s why he’s dangerous. By doing so good on all the irrelevant parameters, he is preventing actual nationalists from building a broad base. Trump is sitting in a chair that by rights should belong to Jared Taylor.

        • It would have been better had Melania placed that medal on Jared Taylor instead of Rush Limbaugh. I think we are some years away from that.

    • Congressional Democrats working hard to insure Trump’s reelection. Those who select Presidents wish to keep his base — essentially the productive element which keeps the country working — riled up and complacent in that they think they have a friend in authority.

  38. How about multiculturalism? An axiom in dissident politics is that diversity plus proximity equals conflict. Many of the same people saying that were wrong about the deficits and the growth of government.

    I think there is empirical evidence that this axiom is true enough. But that does not mean it leads to open war, with the possible hope and solutions that war could bring. The conflict could take the form of gangs and drastically increased levels of violence, sort of an entropic death of society instead of a war-made renewal of the cycle. Instead of Yugoslavia or Lebanon it could be Brazil or Mexico, i.e. steady descent without any revolt or renewal. The same is true of increased state tyranny and popular revolt. Maybe, instead of revolt, society just slowly grinds to a halt, w/o the cataclysm?? I increasingly fear the entropic death scenario more than the war, better a finite hell of intensity than an indefinite hell of drowning and decay.

  39. Somebody (apologies— I don’t recall the handle) said yesterday things don’t collapse, they stop working. I think that’s correct. The jarring moment is when enough people realize things aren’t working anymore, and that seems like collapse even though it’s been a long time coming.

  40. Z Man said: “Maybe there is no limit to debt. Maybe what conservatives think they know about public debt is wrong and disaster is not around the corner.”

    From: “The Sun Also Rises” by Ernest Hemingway.

    “How did you go bankrupt?” Bill asked. “Two ways,” Mike said. “Gradually and then suddenly.” “What brought it on?” “Friends,” said Mike. “I had a lot of friends. False friends. Then I had creditors, too. Probably had more creditors than anybody in England.”

    • A system where the connected have unlimited resources and everyone else is accountable can’t work. If nothing else the pitchforks will come out eventually. Worst case you end up with communism, which has never lasted more than several decades. The problem might be one of perspective.

    • I think we’re going to find out whether or not debt is the biggest long con in human history when USD loses its status as the global reserve currency.

  41. “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

    There is a deep truth in this, and a danger to those who would start by asking themselves what if they are wrong. The danger is that self-confidence by itself makes success far more likely, at least in the short term. This is true for business, for romance or for self-defense and Im sure many other things including politics. Self-doubt leads to choking, to half-hearted measures and premature abandonment.

    I don’t mean to suggest that I am against the question “what if you’re wrong?”, I think it is a very good and prudent question and one more people should be asking themselves far more often. But there’s a time for asking it and there’s a time for not letting them see you sweat. A key part of Trump’s success as a politician, and before that as a businessman, is that he gives the air of having no self-doubt.

    I guess you should ask yourself this question behind the scenes, when you’re w people you trust. But when you’re playing the field, in whatever game from politics to a night on the town, you should put on your game face of ‘no doubts here’.

  42. You lost me at “Maybe the reason for the current crisis is that everyone was wrong about the new world order that emerged after the Cold War.” What is the current crisis?

  43. Well one thing is for sure. The average life expectancy for empires throughout history is about 200 years. We are well past our sell by date.

    • We weren’t an empire in 1789, unless you consider the settlement of America an empire. The American Empire might date from 1898 when we gained overseas colonies.

      • Correct.

        The structural changes put into effect by the “progressives” were what laid the foundation for the empire. It wasn’t until the militia was removed as a military force, a national bank was put in place, an income tax was put into place, the structure of the branches of government were modified to keep them under elite control (restriction on the size of the House and direct election of Senators) …. etc – that the empire could really get rolling.

        One of the ways I’ve seen life described in the US before those changes occurred – was the average citizen’s main contact with the Federal government – was by getting their mail delivered by the USPS.

        Other than that – the average citizen was little affected by anything the Federal government did.

        You’re not going to build an empire using state level militias – and without an infusion of funds to finance the overseas adventures.

        So the building blocks had to be put into place.

        So – I date the beginning of empire from somewhere around the advent of the “progressive” era.

        NOT from the founding of the country.

        That’s some Howard Zinn / leftie “white men been hurtin the POC!” bullshit.

        • and the creation of the National Secret Police… every Empire has gotta have one. the FBI was illegally founded by Teddy Roosevelt in 1908 in a secret act of defiance of the Congress explicitly passing a law forbidding the creation of a National Secret Police.

  44. Most people, including “conservatives,” don’t have a problem with Big Government when it benefits them, or it’s something they approve of. They only have a problem with Big Government when it doesn’t benefit them, or it’s something they disapprove of.

    The other side of Z’s coin is if like Cassandra, you warn and warn and warn, you’re ignored and yet you turn out to be right.

  45. Whether a generation sees its age as ascending or as collapsing probably depends largely on group cohesion. This doesn’t necessarily translate into a civilization’s actual rise or fall. During the civil wars at the end of the republic period the Romans probably figured their time had passed. The empire proved to be their most fecund period. During their actual fall they were all having a grand ole time. To read of that period’s excesses is now a great belly laugh at their inability to correctly read the chicken entrails. It takes not one generation to understand whats up, it takes many. A rise is multi-generational, a fall is multi-generational. Bad ideas and Good ideas can take a long time to work themselves out.

    From reading the past, all we know is that civilizations that have gone down our present path were on the down slope. We also have the unprecedented dynamic of having the strong natives shoved aside by the weak outsiders…by largely doing it to ourselves as the barbarians cheer us on from the bleachers. This seem to me to be a lot more volatile than most historically comparable situations. A line gets crossed and things change overnight. A shift in attitude on our part and Clown World gets sent packing.

    • The Roman Republic was nothing like the Empire. The decadence of the 2nd century B.C. really did destroy it. By the time of Julius Caesar, most of the Latin race had moved out of Rome. The capital became a multicultural hell-hole during the Empire. So, yes…those old Roman aristocrats who were defeated by Caesar were correct. It was over. And it never came back. They were replaced. And try as he might, Augustus could not pull the Latins’ chestnuts back out of the fire.

      • Europeans replaced Europeans. It may have ceased being latin but it didn’t stop being European.

        We’re being replaced by everything but.

        • Latins were from the north. What came into Rome upon their retreat was not the sort of DNA that builds societal comity and empire. Caesar saw this coming. He merely acted from a rational point of view. The empire creaked along for another 500 years on the template he drew up…a military monarchy.

      • Trajan (98 – 117AD) was the first Roman Emperor who was not a native born Italian–he was from Spain. yet Trajan is considered to be one of the “5 Good Roman Emperors”, which ended with Marcus Aurelius.

        perhaps Barry Soetoro was our Trajan in a way.

        • So Rome continued as one, then two, empires- after kicking out Jerusalem.

          Jerusalem then re-formed as Islam, killed the Christians, stole the Persian Conquest, and went to war.

    • Britain’s fall from 1900-2000 is another instructive Imperial collapse, largely due to war, demographic replacement and decadence. In less than 50 years Britain went from the most powerful nation on Earth to the U.S.’s footstool to Eurabia’s outhouse. Lots to unpack there.

    • It might also be worth noting that during the end times, the Roman Empire was torn apart by the various non-Roman, barbarian tribes that they had to fight on all sides. Some they even let into the empire and called “Romans”!

      I see no reason that such foolishness should/can be repeated here with differing results.

  46. This is both a good and bad post.

    Bad: this self doubt got us here. Leftie told us 20 years ago the queers only wanted the privacy of their own bedrooms. Yesterday Men like me couldn’t really argue that and acquiesced. Now we have queers in the bathroom, the schoolroom, the boardroom, the courtrooms… and 26 variants. And the legislation to protect their rights by undermining yours. More, much more is on the way according to the shitlibs and vibrants.

    Good: one of the reasons the alt right failed is that there was no room for self doubt or dissidents. Ditto for the NRx crowd. If you dare to question the cool kids in those movements, even when they are demonstrably and obviously wrong… you are persona non grata just as you’d be with the prog hive mind. Both movements were promising at one point, but ended by shooting themselves in the balls.

    The dissidents strike about the best balance I’ve seen. We need to question ourselves and our assumptions or we will end up just like the Donks and their zombies. It’s called critical thinking and we all need to jump on it. I dunno about the rest of it, but I contend that things can’t keep going like this. Something has to give.

      • Yeah. The voices in the wilderness are always right. From Isaiah to Enoch Powell it’s just they gather steam as they get closer and closer to fruition. We are the steam

      • I dunno if it is one of his worst or one of his best! 🙂

        Reality can be deferred, but it can’t be dismissed. Sorry, the math says that you can’t keep borrowing forever and defaulting on payment. Healthcare proposals are just jazzed up pyramid schemes. Adding endless numbers of vibrant immigrants to your population, and giving them full access to social programs they never paid into will only end one way. And that is the tragedy in all this. Leftie has gotten so adept at feeding our fears and insecurities, that he even got us questioning obvious truths – truths that he flat out denies for his own gain.

        Us Yesterday Men are correct in that much. There IS a reality check inbound. How fatal it is, is entirely up to us. As for me… I am prepping like mad.

      • Well Templar, I didn’t like the post either—at first—but now I believe I understand. People here are now thinking/questioning implicit/explicit assumptions and I’d say that was the intention of the post.

        Not sure I am convinced of rightness or wrongness in beliefs discussed, but certainly timelines are called in question. Also, it helps to rebut some of the challenges made by Z-man by going back to first principles and reevaluating those.

      • I can question my belief that “diversity” is destructive and only discover that it is worse than I had supposed. But if we were not prepared to question our basic beliefs we would still be civic nationalist and that would be a sorry state to be stuck in.

    • I think it was a good post, occasional self-questioning if not doubt, is the price one pays for thinking for oneself. I agree w you about gays. I’m becoming less and less tolerant of them. I think there’s a reason they have been suppressed. When out in the open they bring cultural decay and sexual deviancy. Dislike for gays is probably a case of Chesterton’s fence.

      • There’s a strong insight here, Simba. I appreciate the invocation of Chesterton’s Fence: the assumption that a given thing exists for a reason, and until you’ve understood that reason you can’t judge whether to dispose of it or not.

        It seems to me that there are a lot of people who could and would tolerate individual gays, even defend them against outright prejudice, as long as homosexuality per se did not play a constitutive role in society. On the face of it that seems “unfair,” but in fact the necessary secrecy of gay life under the old dispensation may have resulted in broader toleration of gays throughout society, instead of the situation we have now, where “gay allies” represent just one parochial band of virtue-signalers.

        • Thanks. First it was ‘no discrimination against gays’. Uhm okay, sounds fair enough. Then it was gay ‘marriage’. Before I knew what was going on they were forcing people to bake them cakes. But where I blew a fuse was gay adoption and forcing school kids to hear that ‘gay is just as normal as ‘cis”. That’s perversion and that’s what this whole gay clown show looks like to me.

          In retrospect, asking for common decency and tolerance sure seems to have been the thin end of the wedge. This whole freak circus left me feeling like the nice guy chump who was just exposed as that, a chump. Same feeling w many other things going on too.

        • Gays are just another aberrant group seeking validation from the wider, “normal” populace—the overwhelming, normative population. Nature promotes a general normalcy in all its species, or the species goes extinct. The problem is that we’ve left natural selection behind due to both technology and cultural rot. But as the saying goes, ‘You can’t fool mother nature’.

    • Like it or loathe it, this is the kind of post you’d only read on this blog. Very refreshing, counter-intuitive, and generative of a high-level of discussion. So thanks, Zman.

      Frankly, I feel (from recent experience that I wrote about yesterday in this forum) that one of the liabilities of leftists is that they’re so damn certain about their point of view. Often their certainties of today are different than those of five years ago, but no matter. They are certain they’re right in the moment, and any dissenting voice is therefore purposely obtuse or evil. It’s a real fragility with them, which is prone to fracture, as the growing irrationality of the left shows.

      That inability to conceive of being wrong requires that they forget all prior history. This relates to my all-time favorite Zman dictum: “It’s always Day One with these people.”

      • This right here. You would never read or hear anything like this on a leftist site. An inability to have perspective is a sign of a weak mind.

  47. The problem is bad things don’t matter until they do. The “what” is not hard to figure out, but the “when” and “how bad” are the tricky parts.

    We are also bombarded by those who benefit in the short run from us not dwelling on the “what” of bad things. Magical thinking has its beneficiaries, and those beneficiaries are the ones constantly telling us to avert our eyes and not believe what we can plainly see.

    All that said, constantly checking your assumptions is good practice. The respectful give and take with others is a great way to check and re-check the things you think you know, and this forum is one of the few places one can do that, these days.

  48. I think collapse is coming sooner than we think. Iowa was just an indication what happens when the Coalition of the ascendant get power and are in charge of things. Tyrannical governments work somewhat when it’s Chinese or Russian white people in charge but these people can’t run it. We are decriminalizing pretty much everything and the infrastructure is shutting down. I do totally agree that nobody is going to rise up against the government while there’s plenty of food but competent people are voluntarily turning the reins over to the incompetent. The question is, if any of that is true, who comes in to fill the void

    • Actually, competent people don’t want anything to do with the system. They avoid it at all costs and isolate themselves from the effects of a decadent civilization. They understand the futility of opposing the zeitgeist, and they have more important things to attend to than arguing with lefty. If Thomas Jefferson were alive today, he would be considered a cranky old hermit.

      • Jefferson’s home is in the middle of nowhere, perhaps he anticipated what’s going on but happening a whole lot sooner.

      • I agree, Ep. I like to flatter myself that I am one such cranky hermit. I’m definitely not a Rand fan; but it’s well past time to go John Galt on the American experiment.

    • I don’t think there is going to be collapse, but if there is, the assumption is that those who lack guns and rations will be the first to go. No, it will be those who get sick.

  49. Here’s what I would ask all the never-Trump-ers,”What If You’re Wrong?” What if NOT voting for Trump results in Bernie or Creepy Joe or Fouxcahontas or even Butt-gig taking up residence at 600 Penn? Sure he is many things you loathe and despise, but he is NOT one thing you (hopefully) TRULY despise. He is NOT Bernie or Creepy Joe or Fouxcahontas or Butt-gig. However bad you may believe him to be for the nation, surely he is enormously BETTER than the alternative. Would you truly prefer one of the aforementioned crew running things with a fully DemonKKKRat-controlled legislature and an upsized lapdog SCOTUS waiting in the wings to rubber-stamp whatever the WH wants?

    In my experience, the universe seldom presents us with a clear choice between good and bad. The choice is usually between bad and terrible or even between terrible and OMG! I have written this before and I will do so again. Much (most?) of the time, when I go into the voting booth, I figure society would be better off if BOTH of the candidates were shot. My choice comes down to who I’d prefer be shot FIRST. Once I figure out who that is, I vote for the other one; the one I’d shoot second. Be honest, now. Bad as you believe Trump to be, compared to Bernie et al, isn’t Trump the one you’d shoot second?

    • my response to your question is that the Democrats will have a permanent electoral majority by 2024 anyway, and Bernie is an opportunity to put a uniquely unqualified and out of touch Octegenarian in place.

    • Very little will happen. We’ll still be in a ruinously expensive occupation of the Middle East. We’ll still be allowing ~3 million immigrants (legal/illegal/overstays) in a year and give them work permits. Immigration enforcement will remain at 1980 levels. De-platforming of “bad thinkers” will accelerate. “Quantitative Easing” or whatever they’re calling it this week will continue.

  50. Wut. Not sure I get this one. Has the odor of pilpul about it. I’m all for thinking outside the box, but not thinking outside of reality.

    Going to go outside and kick some rocks.

    • agreed. this is pilpul. anytime there is an epic thread about the Federal Reserve, my Noticer antennas light up when i see a bunch of termites come out of the woodwork to comment “blame the Frankfurt School! those diabolical schemers are behind everything. Just don’t blame the you-know-who.”

      they don’t want us to notice certain things about who is behind the Federal Reserve and the itinerant Bankster class.

  51. Maybe the demise of Rush Limbaugh is also symbolic. The old normycon world is giving sway to the pozzed world we are in now. No matter what is coming, it surely isn’t going to be better but on the contrary, life will be worse compared to previous generations.

    As for the debt, maybe you are right, but once America ceases to be a world power those trillions will mean something.

      • Maybe the pot of warm water we are in is hotter than we will admit. Yes, even us red pilled people.

        • We can’t even imagine how hot that pot is going to get. The world is in the middle of info and bio revolution.
          Two previous techno revolutions caused unmeasured changes to societies: invention of iron giving birth to agrarian age, and resulting late bronze age destructions.
          3000 yrs later Industrial revolution. It brought Civil war here. In Europe — WWI, Russian revolution and WWII as a result of unsettled accounts of WWI.

          It’s not a coincidence that the USSR fell almost immediately after fax machines were introduced there, and an uncontrolled flow of info flooded the country that violently supervised access to knowledge starting in nursery school.
          The earthquakes of changes are now everywhere and it is impossible to predict the degrees of destruction. Even (and maybe especially) the people who have created all this technology don’t know how it will shake and change everything. And so they cling to yesterday ideas of “fairness” to stop the incoming storm.

          • Nothing to Notice here – just mysterious technological earthquakes tearing up your societies.

            Nothing to do with imported subversives who aggressively lobby for more earthquakes, sell earthquake insurance and lobby for earthquake gibs, always managing to come out ahead.

            Nope, just the enigmatic march of Progress. What’s a goy to do but accept the changes, amirite?

          • In Ex-America Garrett wrote of the Frankfurt School Jews coming to America–The American vista must have been almost as incredible as Genghis Khan’s first view of China–so rich, so unaware. Why should anyone fear government?
            Its cruel and cynical suspicion of any motive but its own was a reflection of something it knew about itself. Its voice was the voice of righteousness; its methods therefore were more dishonest than the simple ways of corruption.

          • Its not just the Subversives though there is a hell of a lot of Subversion going on.

            The current social order people like you and I are Noticing is when “Nice” Christianity’s evangelicalism/world healing tendencies meets Tech.

            Hell the entirety of modernity has been a disaster for every stable social order.

            Is a trap though Every single modern society has dangerously low fertility rates and that spreads into every society that can afford ubiquitous television.

            The Mouse Utopia will win.

            Subversion speeds this up but the TFR went low well before the culture was nearly as fracked as it is now. The US hit 1,8 or so in 1930’s and a good argument could be made this was the new norm and it was only broken by the economic effects of post WW2 bubble

            Even if it wasn’t, the TFR hit 1.8 in 1973 and hasn’t changed much.

            This isn’t just Subversion as the US seemed normal enough till the mid 90’s , its cities. 80% urban means low fertility.

            Now the foreign invasion has been a disaster as had the Subversion but its only a partial cause. The reality is more cities, less babies as humanity at least the 3 digit ones reach social carrying capacity

            This situation will end up with a collapse, lightning fast by geological and historical time , a couple of centuries or less but glacial to you and me.

            Reversal? Not likely. It would require a rooted homogeneous population, a steady economy, a very Conservative culture and an acceptance of limits.

            The US has far too many grifters and looters for that.

            So in the end, rooted very religious types win, modernity shrivels and life goes on.

            None of the space bugs will be around though if one of them is somehow, he can cry in his cups. Most of us will be working on farms and space will be fantasy

    • What caused me to wonder about this was Venezuela. Yes there’s “a lot of ruin in a nation”, but I didn’t think there was that much in a place like Venezuela. For instance, they held onto their currency way past the point when it obviously dead spec walking. If that place could hold on to thinking they were a high-end country ten years longer than they should have, then we probably have it in us to do it for a century.

    • The debt means something, and we would be better off without it. However, there is no competition for sole superpower or world’s currency. To the world, we are too big to fail. Think about it this way. If you have a loan from a bank, the bank can come and take what you own. But what if the US defaults? Is China going to take over our oil fields? The world is more at risk from our debt than we are. Thus, interest rates will remain low because they have to.

      The world will eventually run out of capacity to fund our debt, which means entitlements will have to go down. I was a budget hawk most of my life, but even if the Republicans were serious, and they aren’t, the Democrats would just double the debt when they get back in power. Milton Friedman was right when he said governments will always spend everything they take in from taxes, plus whatever else they can get away with.

      So this will go on until it reaches max capacity, and then transfer payments will have to decrease. Everything would be manageable even then, but for the hordes of brown people voting for Venezuela. But whites will have to decline below 20%, like S. Africa, before we get there.

      • So then what is the timeline for whites going below 20%? Because that’s when the final solution (so to speak) – will finally come into full view.

        If that 20% number is not due to be reached for another 30 years – well then might as well shut this site down, because all that’s really happening here is a bunch of intellectual masturbation, none of which will be remembered when the inflection point comes where the problem can finally be resolved.

        Nothing is “too big to fail”. The history of the world is littered with the ruins of empires that have come before. And many of those empires that came before – actually DIRECTLY ruled over significant landmasses other than the ones they originated from. One of the major bitches that come out of the POC and anti-colonialist crowds was how the POC were ruled over by “colonial powers”. In reality – that meant that British soldiers shot down Indians who got out of control. It meant Belgians shot down blacks in the Congo. The US doesn’t really have that same type of empire. It’s empire is largely controlled thru financial means, and the Marines only come in when those means don’t work. Even then – the Marines don’t stay forever.
        Those empires of old sucked their empires dry to make themselves wealthy. The elite ruling class here sucks their own country dry – with other countries as just additional pawns in the scheme.

        Somewhere in my internet travels I saw the US empire referred to as the only one that COST the citizens of the originating country money to keep going . Instead of being an extractive enterprise upon the colonies – it’s an extractive enterprise on the homeland.

        Because of the extractive power of the US Federal govt thru taxation – as well as it’s ability to just constantly run up more and more debt have a DIRECT relationship to the browning of the country – I’d say that any dissident right person who refuses to address the taxation / debt issue head on is just not serious. You’re being forced subsidize your own demise – and your answer is to sit around and wait.

        When you say ” not going to be fixed until whites are 20%” – what you’re really saying is that we’re going to have to burn the village down to save it. Which in the end means there’s not ever going to be another village. The mud huts of your POC successors will be built upon the ruins – and somewhere hundreds of years in the future maybe some archeologists will dig down thru the layers and try to figure out what happened. “what happened to this civilization …. ?” ……” Not sure – but it looks like they were suicidal and actually quite stupid” .

        Sorry – but that to me is not a solution – it’s a cop out.

        Probably a bad example – but when the Germans thought they had an issue within their society after the defeat of WW1, the communist insurrections afterwards – and the debauchery of the Weimar Republic ……. a political movement coalesced…. identified what they thought was the problem – and then implemented direct action to fix those issues.

        They didn’t sit around telling each other in beer hall echo chambers : ” if we just wait for it all collapse we’ll win!!”

        • I’m not saying we should do nothing and wait for it to collapse. I just don’t see an effective solution on the horizon. If you have one, count me in 100%. Tea Party movements come and go, and both parties keep spending. I agree with you as far as the US pushing wealth out to its colonies. How brilliant was Spain to unload Puerto Rico on us. PR gets bailed out of natural disasters and free US citizenship. I still cannot comprehend what we get out of it.

          • The U.S.’s brief flirtation with imperialism (Philippines, Hawaii, etc.) quickly reached its limits, and just as well. Alas: we substituted a through-the-looking-glass anti-empire. Resources now flow from the mother country to the former colonies.

            Puerto Rico, for instance — thanks to a brief moment of foolishness in the Spanish-American War. We should have told Puerto Rico, “Sorry, we messed up, here’s your country back plus some money to pay for the damages. Best of luck.” Instead it has become our perpetual child.

            It’s not really benevolence. It’s always been an advertisement to the world that we are so flipping rich we can save everyone. We’ll still be proclaiming that while we can no longer save ourselves.

    • You can be assured China is playing the long game, and knows if they can keep their regime stable for another 30 years they will not only be a world power, but the sole world power.

      • The mandarins are indeed playing the long game, but the Chinese are also known for their lack of self-awareness. In all the history of China their dynasties never rose above the limits of the Chinese resevoir, because they are Chinese. Only the many complexities of Europeans drove them to greater and greater heights. The Chinese have no complexities. Fools like Thomas Freidman see this as their strenth, which it is, and he envies that. He cannot see the flip side to th erule of a small elite because that would require a curious mind.

    • The mafia can run its protection racket only for as long as it is the top dog in town. Lose that position and the racket goes bust. In that sense, I understand how Russia can be a threat – they are doing things that take a long view towards eventual superiority (supporting family, nationalism, religion; removing degeneracy).

    • Rush Limbaugh is not easily replaced for civ Nat’s. Trump is not easily replaced for civ Nat’s. We are currently in peak civ Nat. We can see the end of Rush’s career coming. We can see the end of Trump in 2024.
      The Progs and Obama’ didn’t have an answer after Obama. They still don’t. Yet.
      At this point I don’t think the Civ Nats have an answer after Trump? I don’t think it’s Pence. Tucker if they are wise. Not sure Tucker has the donor money behind him and unlike Trump Tucker will need financing.
      2024 is the big year coming up. After 2024 and the demographic changes kick into high gear all that might survive for civ nats is the Judiciary. For awhile.

    • Germany once had an unpayable debt. Guess what, they didn’t pay it. Times were tough for eight years or so, but no one starved (we would benefit from some starving) and they were the first out of the Great Depression. Perhaps we could recognize it is the forever debt spending and it’s fiat money that enables the unlimited resourses committed by the deep state to end this previous civilization.

      • what would America defaulting on its debt look like? that can only mean one thing: devaluing the USD.

        as of 2018, $6.3 trillion in USD are held by foreign Central Banks.


        sure, Uncle Sam could devalue and tell the Central Banks of the rest of the world to fuck off and if they have a problem with that, then come talk to our 2,021 ready-to-fire nuclear ICBMs.

        what could cause the US to devalue? i have no idea. because if the US did devalue, it could backfire and trigger a fire sale of US treasuries by foreign debt holders. but what other currency would those foreigners buy to replace their USD? Bitcoin? Rubles? again, i have no idea, just spit-balling here.

  52. The fanatics are throwing sand, water and other debris into the machine betting the machine doesn’t break. All of the idiot lights are on, flashing bright red while everyone stands around amazed that the machine is still running. They will be right, right up to the moment the machine fails. When it fails, something other than sand, water and sundry debris will get the blame, perhaps someone forgot an oil change once.

    • Wrong.

      The commie fanatics ARE outright attempting to break the machine…… because “capitalist”. They assume that when the machine breaks – they’re glorious communist paradise will magically rise from the ashes.

      Even though it’s never happened before – despite multiple attempts.

      • That’s a different machine. The machine I’m talking about is society, not the economy. A bunch of “brown” people with absolutely nothing in common, working with a bunch of sexual freaks and degenerates are supposed to bring in a social utopia where nobody is ever judged, prisons don’t exist, police departments have been disbanded and where there are no real social rules anyway are supposed to pick up the pieces of society and put old Humpty LaRasa back together again.

        • We all know how things break down when the rules are not followed. TPTB are actively encouraging everyone to break all the rules and have everything break down. But that is not the end game, which is to reconstitute a different set of (totalitarian) rules that benefit only TPTB. They have had enough of our experiment in self-government. Always look for the end game that is in play, because the players will wear a skin suit that looks different than what they are really up to.

        • You can’t disconnect the two in the way you seem to think you can. And the Frankfurt School commies have been very clear about their effort to infiltrate all levels of society and commerce – in order to screw things up and force the day when their communist utopia comes into being.

          Is the social utopia an ultimate goal – or is it just a tool to bring down society? That’s the piece I think a lot of people are confused about. I don’t think the social utopia is a “real” end goal – it’s just a sell-job to get all those POC and assorted freaks to sign onto the social destruction army’s goals.

          Once the goal is reached – all the freaks end up first in the boxcars.

          The elites don’t cavort around with purple hair and transgenderize their children. That shit is for all the “lower” class idiots who swallow the mass culture swill hook line and sinker.

          • Calsdad….you’re on fire today. Remember…I’m daughter of Trots Commies. You nailed it. They never stop. Forward always forward the 10 pillars to utopia. That’s just the line to gaslight everyone under the High Elite. Cloward-Piven forever…until the fall and then the Elite kill off their first line command…then kill off second line command….etc. There is no utopia and they know it.
            Putin got his car and driver, yachts, endless dachas and 17 year old gymnast(s). And Power.
            Watch the movie Doctor Zhivago. Lessons there.

          • Why would the people with all the money and power want to change it all into a communist utopia? If a communist dictatorship comes, they will all be killed, or, perhaps, have all their stuff taken. It just does not make any sense that the ruling elite would want to change the status quo into a new status quo where they no longer have the money and power. Surely, the vast majority of these people cannot possibly think they will arise to the top and be America’s Stalin after such a violent change to the status quo.

            The managerial class may want some communist system, but the people who actually have the money and power do not want such a thing. If they wanted such a thing, they would already have it. If you think otherwise, then there is no people with the money and power because by definition, they are unable to change the status quo all by themselves.

            I certainly agree with you that the true money/powered people are not spending their time around the freaks and degenerates.

          • Economy is down at the bottom. The chain goes something like Biology>Culture>Institutions>Politics>Economy. Focusing on economy misses everything above that.

        • They do want to break both the economy and society. I have accused a commie-in-law of wanting to be my feudal overlord. If I was to assume there was logic behind their plans, they must be seeking a return to medieval feudalism.

      • Because “White.”

        Communism and capitalism are secondary issues to today’s Wokies.

        For the most part, Wokies are the machine, they’re not trying to break it.

        How many “punch a Capitalist” or “eat the rich” memes have you read lately vs. muh Whiteness, black bodies, Browning, etc..? There might be some geezers hanging around the Antifa bars who still get amped up over socialism, but today’s hotness is ethno-cultural, not economic.

        • Normies also ought to take greater notice that Wokies have had no issues with the CIA and FIB, their old presumed enemies. On popular tv we see both organizations populated by cool kids and the sexually ambiguous.

          • I’ve been pointing out to people that there’s been a distinct shortage of exploding Mohammeds in the past three years since Peter Strzok , the Anti Terrorism Head of the FBI has been too busy spying on and trying to impeach Trump when he wasn’t busy sending 20,000 texts to the FBI lawyer he was banging. (although how they found time to do any actual shagging is a mystery to me.)

        • Agreed. If I had to move to one of two countries sight unseen, and all I knew was that one was white communist and the other was non-white capitalist/libertarian/whatever, I would choose white communist.

          This doesn’t mean I favor communism over capitalism, it means I understand that race is far more dispositive than economics.

      • There is a percentage of communist who, like Marx late in life, appreciate capitalism. They just want to be the ones who spend and control the flow of money. Hayek noted eighty years ago that many capitalist are socialists. Capitalism is not an ideaology, it is a talent. When socialist rule then it more resembles their ideaology, and socialist have now ruled for a century, give or take.

        • Yes … but , most people who proclaim themselves socialist (and/or communist) – are very distinctively untalented.

          Bernie Sanders is a perfect case in point – as his entire life history has been that of a person who is essentially useless outside any worth he has as a politician.

          You can go find the articles by doing a Google search, but one of the things I clearly remember reading when he ran for President the last time around – was people coming out of the woodwork who had known Bernie earlier in his life – coming out and talking about his early life was just a long string of failure to be a productive person.

          In my experience – all of the most prominent socialists/communists share the same story.

          They’re all basically worthless as contributors to society – or even to their own upkeep, so they (of course) embrace a philosophy that would allow them to survive in the world – absent any survival skills.

          • They always try to frame their greed and lust for money and power as a desire to help others. But as you mention, they are nearly always personal failures who want to erect a system where they can do nothing and get paid.
            Like the “artists,” poets and musicians who think they should just get everything for free so that they can have time to pursue their “art,” music and poems. Nobody wants their shitty art and poetry, so they need someone else to pay the bills.

            There is some desert shit-hole “town” out West called “Slab City” which is entirely built around an ancap model. A bunch of freaks, degenerates and lowlifes living almost entirely in either shacks, cars or trailers. There is basically no permanent dwellings. Women are raped on a regular basis, open defecation, fights, drugs and bunch of addicts. Most of the “ancaps” are some sort of gov gibs program.

          • Bernie is a grifter. I read somewhere he was kicked out of an Israeli kibbutz for not working, but I never fact-checked that. The entire game is to get someone else to pay for your existence. The Bernies and Hillarys of the world just want a higher level of existence.

  53. The two sides are watching two different movies, as Scott Adams said (or, to use your example, living in different bespoke silos). Still, the fake sciences have a useful word, “inter-subjectivity,” to describe the state in which the movie you’re watching at least shares some of the general contours with the movie someone else is watching. Plainly, if two people see the same thing, it is less likely to be a hallucination. If America right now is a movie, most Republicans and independents are watching Trump up on screen fending off multiple thugs trying to waylay him in an alley; the democrats and progressives are in the same theater, but they’ve dropped five hits of acid and are talking to their shoes and weeping about their dog who died in childhood while they ignore the screen. Pelosi would be the crazy black lady in the theater shouting to the Scream Queen, “Don’t go in that room, b***h! He got a knife!” while the usher calmly told her to lower her voice or leave.

    • The crisis is in the matrix. Most of it is virtual. The real world effects won’t become acute until the dream world gets decided. Dreamers awake.

      Sorry I know that’s obscure but it’s the best I’ve got right now 🙂

  54. Now the US is just another sad country with the “resource curse”, like the countries whose elites control their oil and diamond resources and don’t need taxpayers or their votes. Except our unlimited resource is debt.

    • I don’t believe debt is an unlimited resource. People think “well the economy didn’t fall over and we’re all still standing!!” – even though we’re up to something like $23 trillion in debt.

      People who say this should be considered idiots when it comes down to forecasting where things are going to end up. One data point I saw mentioned back in the 2008-2009 timeframe in regards to whether the economy was really bad or not – was the observation that when times get tough people stop buying steak. They go back to buying hamburger. When times get tougher – they start eating pasta. When times get tougher still they eat Ramen. Tougher still and they cut back meals.

      So you can’t necessarily measure whether the economy is bad – simply by looking to see if anybody is starving to death.

      Look at WW2. By all reasonable measures the Nazis should have surrendered after a thorough evaluation of their real chances (plenty of smart German military command knew they were going to lose) – instead they fought it out on the streets of Berlin – and even had SS units who were going to hide in the hills and keep fighting.

      Same on the Japanese side. We had to drop TWO atomic bombs, because the 1st one didn’t have the desired effect – in the desired amount of time. The invasion of Japan was fully planned out – and the US was estimating something like a million casualties – and there were projections that the Japanese were going to cease to exist as a nation. It’s not like the Japs didn’t know they were losing – that was apparent for years before the final fall. So once again – the full expectation that defeat was inevitably coming – didn’t really change the behavior – it just made them double down.

      What was the common thread between Germany and Japan…… ?

      Fanatics were running the show.

      So – are we still OK when it comes to debt? The birth rate has fallen below replacement and white people are basically unbreeding themselves out of existence. There’s plenty of studies that show a direct relationship between economic circumstances – and birth rates. How is our industry? All shipped off to China – because lower prices. Why would lower prices be so important? Well when have a massive tax load – because of debt – you search for other ways to reduce costs. It’s not like the tax load goes down simply because prices on everything else you need to buy has gone up. The US is filling up with POC – why ? , well at least in part because of that lower prices thing. While white parents try to get their one kid into school so he/she/it can get a good job and keep paying on that tax load – they need to employ a bunch of Ecuadoreans to mow the lawn because the kid is too busy studying.

      I see the debt’s affect on society as akin to that devolution on diet thing I detailed in the 1st paragraph. The debt load doesn’t kill you outright – it just constantly keep chipping away at everything. It puts that saying ” how did you go bankrupt? …….. slowly at first and then all of a sudden” into action across all of society.

      We’re already well past the steak, hamburger, and probably the pasta stages – and probably into ramen noodles.

      There’s also plenty of history behind the assertion that debt will kill the nation – it’s happened multiple times before.

      A real conservative understands this. A leftist liberal fanatic – obviously – will not.

      That’s why they keep doing these things – and fighting in the streets of Berlin even when there is no obvious hope.

      • Just to somewhat echo your comment, most of what people think is wrong in the country, like health care costs, college costs, “low wages”, etc. are driven in part by the debt-driven society. When I point out to minimum wage activists that the issue isn’t that people aren’t paid enough, but that stuff costs too much due to federal money printing, they seem to know that I’m correct, but that fixing that is beyond their power, whereas passing a law for a minimum wage increase is within their ability.

      • The reason most young people are becoming Bernie Socialists is because they correctly anticipate that they have been screwed by endless government borrowing. They damn well are not willing (nor able) to repay our debts because they know that there will be no pot of gold waiting for them at retirement. The price of debt is the extinction of generational trust.

        • Exactly.

          Debt is just transferring money from the future – to buy something in the present. Which “works” – I guess , if you really need to eat right now – and are out of work – but have a guaranteed job that starts next week and you are almost certainly assured you can pay it back once you receive a paycheck.

          But giving 30 year mortgages to 80 year olds – is most assuredly not being paid back. I suppose even that is ok – once you realize that the bank can always repossess the house that the 80 year old bought once they die. In that case the oldster was basically just paying rent to the bank.

          But when you rack up $23 trillion in debt – which translates into roughly $71k for each and every one of the 320 odd million US citizens or ~$140k for every actual productive citizen (approximately half of US citizens pay no taxes – which means they’re not even making enough to bother to tax them) – well now you’re talking about something that is simply not going to get paid back.

          But that debt requires some sort of payment be made. So everything I mentioned – plus the potential future of those pro-Bernie dipshits (sorry – but it seems utterly moronic to me to believe a solution to being screwed out of a future by government induced debt – is to have even bigger government) – will be sacrificed to make those payments.

          What can’t go on – won’t.

          What can’t be paid back – won’t.

          But that won’t stop the fanatics from destroying everything between now and the time of won’t – trying to avoid the final calamity.

          • Good point. I feel that the decline of a nation (e.g. ours) is a long-term affair, and it is by and large inevitable. As some wise ass once said, “A trend, once in motion, tends to remain in motion until it ends.” Re national debt, there was little consensus to stop or reduce it in 1960, 1980, 2000, and even less today. Those with a stake in the future (viz. children) should consider what the future may hold.

          • *If we are wrong*, MMT works. Government debt is not ‘real’ since all fiat currency is government debt anyway. It’s the ‘belief’ that the money has value which matters. Value which is backed up by a lot of tanks and planes and guns. If we are wrong.

        • I disagree. I do not believe that most young people today are actually fully cognizant of the extent of our indebtedness or the debasement of our currency. Their interests may rather be more base and personal, focused on student debt forgiveness alone.

      • Yes…Excellent take and well written. Am listening to you and the other gentlemen commenting in response.

      • The reason debt is an unlimited resource is because it is paid back with printed money. What if we are wrong that you can’t keep printing money forever? If you can print money forever if prices and wages rise in tandem with the printing? What if we are wrong and growth never ends?

        • if printing money forever works, and we have nothing to fear about a -$23 TRILLION national debt, and in the year 2040 we will have nothing to fear from a -$100 TRILLION national debt, because we can just keep printing new fiat-debt for eternity, then why even have an economy today right now? if the untested “Modern Monetary Theory” of the economist expert’s is correct, then we can just print as much money as we want with no consequences. so why don’t we print out a million dollars and give it to every person in America? why not make it ten million, to adjust for anticipated inflation? why even have our wage-slave economy when we already possess the means to make everyone instantly rich just by printing some paper and adding some zeroes to an Excel spreadsheet saved on Treasury Secretary Mnuchin’s computer?

          because it’s all a lie. we can’t print money forever. printing trillions and trillions of dollars will eventually crash our whole economy and the Grand American Experiment will be marked as a “failure” in the science lab notebook of history.

          • The thing is they *aren’t* handing out millions to each person. Instead, they’re doling it out slowly to favored (((parties))), essentially stealing all productivity gains. What if we are wrong that it isn’t 2040, but 2100, or 2200?

      • i would never reduce the final acts of heroism of the brave soldiers of the Reich to mere “fanatacism.”

        the siege of Breslau is an example of that par excellence. 50,000 German soldiers defended a moated and fortified castled city on a hill from 85,000 Soviet soldiers.


        60,000 Soviet soldiers died. the Reich held Breslau for a week after Hitler’s suicide, and only surrender on the same day that Herman Goerring offered the unconditional surrender of the Reich.

        why did those German soldier sacrifice themselves to such an irrationally extreme degree? because they were fanatics? because they were themselves pawns and puppets of Reich leaders who were fanatics? in the big picture, why was the Great War happening all over again?

        here is the answer to “Chesterton’s Fence”, which i am so glad an earlier commenter mentioned. those German soldiers did what they did because to do nothing and let Bolshevism and Communism and Marxist-Leninism sweep Europe would have meant the total genocide of Europe and the destruction of nearly 2,000 years of progress since Rome.i would never reduce the final acts of heroism of the brave soldiers of the Reich to mere “fanaticism.”

        the siege of Breslau is an example of that par excellence. 50,000 German soldiers defended a moated and fortified castled city on a hill from 85,000 Soviet soldiers.


        60,000 Soviet soldiers died. the Reich held Breslau for a week after Hitler’s suicide, and only surrender on the same day that Herman Goerring offered the unconditional surrender of the Reich.

        why did those German soldier sacrifice themselves to such an irrationally extreme degree? because they were fanatics? because they were themselves pawns and puppets of Reich leaders who were fanatics? in the big picture, why was the Great War happening all over again?

        here is the answer to “Chesterton’s Fence”, which i am so glad an earlier commenter mentioned. those German soldiers did what they did because to do nothing and let Bolshevism and Communism and Marxist-Leninism sweep Europe would have meant the total genocide of Europe and the destruction of nearly 2,000 years of progress since Rome.

        when the stakes are existential, fanaticism becomes perfectly rational and even mundane.

        i say all of this because your comment strikes me as having somewhat of a black-pill/doomer/do-nothing tone. basically what you sound like you are saying is this: “the power of the Federal Reserve and the debt are too big and too powerful for any of you to do anything about it, so don’t be a fanatic and don’t die in the streets trying to fight back, just let it go.”

        believing in what is true and fighting to the death against all odds for what is right is not “fanaticism”, no, that is the highest goal any man could aspire to achieve in his lifetime. any man who thinks otherwise is a coward and traitor to his people and his race.

        you are absolutely right that the core issue, the beating heart of evil, the innermost circle of the Inferno, the root cause of all of the problems facing America is the Federal Reserve and the debt. everything else proceeds as a consequence from the debt. every other act of political self-sabotage, every piece of Americana that is auctioned off to foreigners, every decrement of demographic decline and quality of life—you can draw a straight line from whatever it is back to the Federal Reserve and the debt.

        like those last German soldiers defending Breslau even after they knew all was lost, so too we must fight to the death to destroy the Federal Reserve and its fiat-debt regime, because exactly like saving Europe from Bolshevism, we are now fighting to save Earth from Bolshevism.

        if the Federal Reserve wins total World Domination, that will me Eternal Global Bolshevism for all Mankind. if the idea of that outcome does not move you to raise your fist against it, then there is no hope for you, and your life is a net negative to your race and your tether should be cut before you drag the rest of us down into the undertow with you.

        when the stakes are existential, fanaticism becomes perfectly rational and even mundane.

        i say all of this because your comment strikes me as having somewhat of a black-pill/doomer/do-nothing. basically what you sound like you are saying is this: “the power of the Federal Reserve and the debt are too big and too powerful for any of you to do anything about it, so don’t be a fanatic and don’t die in the streets trying to fight back, just let it go.”

        believing in what is true and fighting to the death against all odds for what is right is not “fanaticism”, no, that is the highest goal any man could aspire to achieve in his lifetime. any man who thinks otherwise is a coward and traitor to his people and his race.

        you are absolutely right that the core issue, the beating heart of evil, the innermost circle of the Inferno, the root cause of all of the problems facing America is the Federal Reserve and the debt. everything else proceeds as a consequence from the debt. every other act of political self-sabotage, every piece of Americana that is auctioned off to foreigners, every decrement of demographic decline and quality of life—you can draw a straight line from whatever it is back to the Federal Reserve and the debt.

        like those last German soldiers defending Breslau even after they knew all was lost, so too we must fight to the death to destroy the Federal Reserve and its fiat-debt regime, because exactly like saving Europe from Bolshevism, we are now fighting to save Earth from Bolshevism.

        if the Federal Reserve wins total World Domination, that will be Eternal Global Bolshevism for all Mankind. if the idea of that outcome does not move you to raise your fist against it, then there is no hope for you, and your life is a net negative to your race and your tether should be cut before you drag the rest of us down into the undertow with you.

        • Except you’re not fighting to the death. None of us are. None of us will, either. Typing ain’t fighting.

          The man who takes any of us seriously, such that he is willing to risk his family’s welfare in the present, fight and die against overwhelming odds, suffering great pain along the way, is a forgettable fool.

          He’s a fool because we don’t have his back in cyberspace, much less where it counts – on the ground.

          He’s forgettable because a time is coming where nobody will remember him.

          We are armchair warriors, tolerated until we’re no longer tolerated.

          Comply or die is our credo. We shall comply and die comfortably in bed or less comfortably of a heart attack while out and about.

          The past 55+ years of Blightwing indolence, cowardice, willful ignorance, and stupidity is coming home to roost.

      • The reality that people can’t wrap their minds around is that federal “debt” is not debt at all.

        Instead it is money creation.

        Which causes problems, but not the types of problems that individuals face with debt repayment.

      • Forcing everyone to use your currency in order to run a deficit without tears has protected the US from first-order effects of trade deficits, but not the second order deficits effects – if you don’t take the hint of runaway inflation, then the deficits eat away at the value of land and labor as original factors of production.

        I imagine something similar happens with budget deficits as well.

  55. First, I will disagree with your statement that noone follows the rule. Second, I will admit that my perspective is a tad pedestrian and not as urbane as some others. I am not one of those that cannot see the forest for the trees, I am that guy that cannot see the forest for THE TREE. It is a sort of tunnel vision that hampers me in some ways, but has allowed me to solve a large number of real problems that have been described as impossible.

    I wrote software for my entire adult life. Some of that code managed pipelines, production facilities, and controlled components of the electrical system. In some cases, failures would lead to catastrophic environmental issues or death of otherwise innocent individuals.

    I thought about the consequences of being wrong every single day of my life. I maintain that approach even now, as I am retired. Drives my poor wife crazy. Because I see consequences, she has learned to live with me telling her why a course of action or other would be a terrible idea. Why must I always tell her what will go wrong?

    I had a very good reputation among my coworkers of writing software that seldom failed. I am somewhat proud of that.

    • When being wrong gets people killed, moral men take extra care to look down the path for consequences. Gets to be a habit. Drives my wife nuts, too, that I examine decisions even of moderate import this way.

    • This is also the life of an engineer. When we make a mistake, something usually fails, and then bridges fall down. You can’t fix that with eloquent rhetoric.

      • “Mistakes were made but it’s time to move on” as they fish bodies of your parents and their car from the bottom of the river.

      • This is absolutely a way of life for a physician, wondering what could go wrong. I can’t prescribe penicillin without remembering a patient I saw who died from it many years ago.

        So much so that I always wonder WTF when I meet physicians who are on the left. Primum non nocare and all that.

        • TRD, We all make decisions with the information we have at hand. The only way that should bother you was if that person knew they had a penicillin allergy and it wasn’t conveyed to you.

        • Physicians are mostly socialists now because they want, and are getting, someone other than their patients to pay for their services. As a profession, medicine is dead, until the money printing ends and government-funded “healthcare “ collapses. Then you will see the true heirs of Hippocrates.

      • Eveything living dies. The only thing separating man from other mortal animals is our “eloquent rhetoric.” And “First, do no harm” as a credo or principle of action is a stirling example of just such rhetoric. We may be hardwired to do wrongfulness analysis, but it frequently turns out to be woefully inadequate.

    • One of the great 19th century thinkers wrote that it is the quiet men who carry civilization and the loud who reap the benefit.

    • Good points. If only politics had as much concern for likely consequences. As Z (?) and others well note, this is the exact opposite of how a democracy works, in fact would penalize any politico who dared to value the long-term costs over the short-term payoff for him and those who bought him. I think the best we can hope for is a benevolent dictator.

  56. Lest we fall into the same blind malaise and hubris we see in both political parties and our rulers… we should constantly review our progress and survey the landscape.

    But no, the purpose and mission of the Dissident movement isn’t wrong if that is what you are implying, even if just philosophically.

      • Grey,

        This was my assumption as well. My answer will always be steadfast championing of the cause and enduring cheerleading. That’s the role my heart and mind are best suited for.

  57. Invert, always invert.

    What if we’re wrong about multi-everything destroying society? Well, then things turn out okay. But if the other side is wrong, we’ll get Yugoslavia or Zimbabwe.

    The multi-everything bet is insanely stupid. If you win, you get the same society you would have had if you didn’t invite millions of non-whites into the country, i.e. you don’t win anything. If you lose, you get the Dark Ages.

    • The onus is on them, not us. We want to not change anything and they want to completely change everything. Not imposing radical changes is the default position.

      I suppose it is somewhat fair to say that we now want to reverse, at least partially, all of the evil changes we were unable to stop. But I still think it is way more justified and less likely to be wrong than those radical changes were.

      Another thing is these radicals will be more or less correct, right up until the moment they are proved wrong. The fact that some evil catastrophe has not happened yet, does not mean we are not still speeding down the path that ends in a catastrophic crash. Not only did they cause the crash, which was bad enough, but they substantially eroded our ability to deal with the crash once it happens.

      • Sure. Until you hit the brick wall, the car is travelling along swimmingly. Part of the difficulty is that in civilizational terms, things happen slowly. Rome was not built in a day; nor was it destroyed in one.

      • Wait a moment; what do you mean the “onus” is on them, not us.

        The Onus of the Onerous is most certainly on US, my fellow beasts of burden. > this is Boxer saying the onus is on the Pigs.

        No, slave the onus is on us.

        And we’re the ones who want to change things, we are screaming to change course before the ship wrecks. They have the ship, most of the crew – we are “passengers” in the not so comfortable hold.

        The onus is on them. Jesus.

        The onus stopped being on them no later than 1965. This is their ship.
        That we have a new nominal Captain only delays our Doom …or perchance gives us a real chance to rise.

        This isn’t “dissidence” here.
        This is in legal and in official terms a slave revolt. We’re the niggers pal, and have been for some time.

        Trump is like Reagan, a respite.
        Not a change of course.

        For that we have to rise and destroy, eradicate our Masters.

        As it happens they’ve revealed how weak, unfit and vile they are…so now is yes the time to organize their downfall. We do it now while we have youth with us for the first time in over a century, while they are weak, before they get competent, young blood replacing the wizened old fools astride us now. <now in their case THAT is inevitable, because we see their replacements.

        In our case it will take work, and courage. If its easier you can see your Doom, our fate before us. Perhaps that will steel your hearts.

        • I like the way you think, VXXC and Zman…..that very large ship has already set its course….we are the one’s initating change of direction…..also, we must ALWAYS wonder if we’re wrong in our accessment… 😁

    • There is not rights or wrongs, it is only time. Society is a enormous survival system It took 74 years, 50 million dead and horrific material damage for Soviet Union to collapse.

      Ukraine farmers in 1933 wondered, how the country can survive without the farmers. After 6 million Ukrainian farmers and 10 million other population dead, it came out that very well. We won the war, got nuclear bomb and sent first person into space.

      There is so few pro white people that Donald may ignore them. US is not Poland or Hungary.
      US has a great land mass. It can accumulate enormous amount of immigrants because until white people have somewhere to escape, nothing happens.
      People can adopt. Like in the Soviet Union, high living standard people accept the new normality. Shitty life becomes normal life as the Soviet people got used with new normality. Remember, there have been no revolutions from the right, only from the left.

      Now economy. Actually there is no debt, because all the debt is belonging to Global Banksters. Until they are fine with that, there is no problem. All money in the world is one big debt. Money is created by banks and they don,t give money, they only borrow.

      Now the clever thing, human soul. This is one great secret issue. By some weird reason, people are sometimes not happy anymore and it goes right to the top of the society. Then there will be change. But this is already too difficult issue to write in the comments. Change comes only when people losing faith. Before it, will be Leningrad blockade. You remember, millions died and the rest eat rats ( not bats, Chinese eat them not us. Ours are too small ) but the faith was strong and Leningrad was not taken. Later , faith was lost and Soviet Union came down.

      This is the dirty secret of Donald betrayal. He want people to lose faith. Then the Empire comes down, not before.

      • Great response. There’s a widespread belief here (the most sober minded place on the internet) about the limits the vast majority of people will accept as society goes downhill. The limit is much greater than they realize.

        • There’s no limit.
          Without organization, leaders there are no movements and never one revolt or riot. Not one, ever.

          Look the enemy is the official polite society, the everything…the state, the official religion. They ARE INEVITABLE, they exist.

          We don’t. We’re a wish, we don’t exist. We’d have to organize to exist.

    • Brings to mind Pascal’s Wager, concerning the question of atheism. Is there a God? What would be the consequences of my answer? He concluded it was wiser to wager a little bit now, in order to win a big payoff later.

      • Yep. I thought of using Pascal’s Wager.

        Another analogy is trending following. Make a lot of little bets. Cut your losers quickly and let your winners run. The multi-everything bet is the opposite. It’s one giant bet and you ride to the grave.

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