The New Masons

Yoram Hazony took his neo-nationalism show on the road to Rome, where he invited all the best people to talk about his new idea called nationalism. He brought in various political and academic figures from around Europe to discuss this new nationalism thing, but he was careful to exclude anyone associated with nationalism. It was a replay of his show in Washington last summer. The point of it is to rebuild a wall between the establishment and the growing army of dissidents.

As noted in the past, Hazony’s game here is to rebuild the walls between the good thinkers inside and the very bad thinkers outside. Instead of rebuilding the old wall in place, he plans to extend the perimeter so the new wall will include the more docile nationalists and populists, who are happy to have a platform, but will not threaten the castle of cosmopolitan globalism. It’s really just a way to co-opt some of the language and energy of dissidents in order to confuse the issue.

As he did the last time, Hazony was careful to invite the right sort of influencers, the type that appeal to gentry dissidents. For example Douglas Murray was given access so he could offer his opinions on it. Hazony was also given access to the Spectator to complain about how the Left says mean things about him because he is such a threat to their position. It is classic sandwich making that dissidents of a certain type have become adept at identifying.

The effort to rebuild the right side of the sandwich has been underway for a while now, since the 2016 election. The Intellectual Dark Web nonsense was one effort to reestablish the outer boundary of the acceptable Right. Quillette was positioned to be the new frontier of right-wing discourse. Of course, Ben Shapiro was promoted as the voice of young white people. The latest effort to create a new right-wing intellectual zone is what the usual suspects are now calling the New Right.

The sheer number of people employed in rebuilding the walls of the Right is quite impressive and it reflects the urgency of the people inside. If they had a sense of humor, they would nickname these folks “the masons” as an homage to the secret society, as well as to the art of wall building. That would require both a sense of humor and some self-awareness, both of which are absent from our intellectual betters. Instead they gaslight themselves about the success of these projects.

The irony of what Hazony is doing is that he loathes Catholicism, yet he is engaged in a very Catholic enterprise. He is trying to lead a counter-reformation, similar to what the Catholic Church did in response to the Protestant revolts. Like the Catholics, he is not ceding any important ground to the rebels, but instead he is trying to re-brand the faith by talking openly about its abuses. He’s not questioning the logic of cosmopolitanism, just its implementation and excesses.

Of course, unlike the Counter Reformation, Hazony is an outsider coming to town selling a cure for what ails the local rulers. He’s a monorail salesman, playing on the fears and insecurities of his targets. He’s not all that interested in nationalism for Finns or Italians, but he is very interested in Jewish nationalism. His case for a new nationalism is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. His project is about defending his country, Israel, from defects of cosmopolitan globalism.

The internal contradictions are obvious in his book. His arguments on behalf of Zionism are straight forward and quite rational. Most dissidents would come away thinking they make perfect sense. Then he adds in a million exceptions and qualifications when applying his argument to the West. All of a sudden, things like ethnic distance and common heritage no longer apply. It is a contradictory argument, because it is littered with exceptions.

That’s what makes his tour stop in Rome interesting. Unlike Americans, the European Right is a bit shrewder about this stuff. They understand perfectly well what Hazony is doing, but he is useful cover for now, so they throw in with him. He hopes to free ride on their energy and organization and they intend to use him as cover. The European national populists want legitimacy, so they can look past his motivations. It is a good lesson in the reality of politics.

This effort to co-opt dissident ideas and the energy from national populism can only have two possible outcomes. One possible outcome is the effort is destroyed on the rocks of political reality. Despite the quality of people inside the institutions, they have real power and they are not afraid to use it. In fact, they have shown themselves to be quite vicious. They take pleasure in cancelling people, so it is not unrealistic to think they will squash Hazony like a bug.

The other possibility is it washes away the current political order. This is more likely in Europe, where right-wing parties have been slowly organizing and nibbling away at the established order. The cover provided by Hazony, as well as the fragility of the European model, could open the door for national populist to gain real power. In the US, the bizarre reaction from establishment parties to populism could explode their whole project. Just imagine a Trump -Sanders debate in the fall elections.

That is why these efforts by the wall builders are a positive for dissidents. From the perspective to those downhill looking up at the institutions, the walls continue to look quite formidable. For those inside the walls, they look quite fragile. Those people inside have a much clearer view of their situation. The mad scurrying around we see by the wall builders is a positive. The siege cannot last forever, so the more energy they spend on defense, the better for the people outside the walls.


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Chiron
Guest
Chiron

Sincerely, the most realistic solution for Europe to regain any relevance at the world stage is to federalize the EU and create its own military, with would be the end of NATO and US military industrial complex, finally giving real freedom to everyone.

Jewish intellectuals like Hazony taking over the “New Right” or whatever is called these days was to be expected since is their nature to do that to every political movement, a Europe of small independent countries will be easy prey to their influence.

Member

The only thing I can see working is a European common market confederacy along the lines of the Swiss model. Each nation would be a semi-independent “canton” with its own currency and a militia that could be called up. This would require a benevolent Germany organizing and providing the discipline to make it fly. And that would be a tall order.

Bill_Mullins
Member

The phrase “benevolent Germany” is more’n a bit credulity straining for me. I see no reason to believe that Germany – or any other nation – would lean towards benevolence as opposed to self interest. But then I am an admitted cynic.

Mike Ricci
Guest
Mike Ricci

EU doesn’t even have enough young people to form a military. Demographics equal doom in every way for Brussels.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

That is a little like saying the only way for Latvia or Estonia to remain ‘relevant on the world stage’ is to remain inside the Soviet Union. The primary problem w the EU is that it is in the hands of globalists and sees itself not as a wall around the European nation states but as a replacement for them. The EU led by a Bismarck or some other sane, shrewd person who doesn’t happen to think ‘Eurabia’ sounds like a great idea, could be interesting. Unfortunately that has nothing to do with the EU currently oppressing Europe. Getting rid… Read more »

AnotherAnon
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AnotherAnon

Sohrab Ahmari is another poseur who situated himself into the ”conservative” thinktank world, doing a cultural suicide job that Americans won’t do. He’s a second generation Iranian whose adopted Ultramontain act is to unravel America’s intellectual fabric and Protestant underpinnings in a way Pat Buchanan would never dream of doing – ever.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

People are wise to the game now— not just dissidents. Enough at any rate to make these efforts futile. Enjoy the show.

And I’d say America would be leading Europe right now were it not for Charlottesville.

John Smith
Member

I think you’re right, PF. There is a red pill tsunami building up, and those things are exponential, not geometric in growth.

I used to buy into the narrative about Jews; but I am now a federal criminal. I don’t want to see Jews abused or hurt – but I will not be led by them nor will they speak for me.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

That, John Smith, is why I and millions of others (used to) proudly be non-racist, because we really mean no ill will towards anyone. And that IS something to be proud of in this wicked world.

Tarl Cabot
Guest
Tarl Cabot

Charlottesville was a learning experience, albeit a painful one. Again, compare it with Richmond to see that at least the Right has learned the lesson. Even the DR3 virtue signaling was good political cover.

I draw the line at Hazony, though. He is a snake, and the Right has been sold this rug before. The silver lining is that his “selective “ nationalism provides an excellent opportunity to expose the Ziocon con to Normie.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Our side is learning. Look at Richmond, and also the recent Bloomberg rally in Arlington (www.thetruthaboutguns.com, currently the second piece down). Organization, discipline, numbers. Good things are happening, our side is learning how to be effective (all the Alinsky stuff) without being significantly countered or co-opted, so far.

Citizen of a Silly Country
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Citizen of a Silly Country

Europe with its multiple parties and coalitions is much more fertile ground for dissidents. They can start new parties and slowly gain seats and get their message out. Our two-party system makes our job dramatically more difficult. We basically have to overthrow the GOP establishment with the ((TPTB)) fighting us the entire way. For now, the better way to slip inside the walls of the GOP isn’t pushing for ethnic nationalism – which is a bridge much too far for your typical GOP voter – but to push for civil rights for whites. We need to get whites to start… Read more »

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

CivNat’s fate is sealed. It can be helped along, but it already did itself in. Excuse my optimism. 🙂

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I want to push on all fronts. Infiltrate the GOP. Start forming small groups of DR. Weaken the current power structure as you create an alternative.

CivNats are doomed, but we can push that along and be ready when they faill.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

CivNats are indeed doomed. What replaces them is an open question.

Exile
Member
Exile

Consolidating Our Guys at the local level serves this purpose, Citizen. And it’s not just a GOP thing. If we can co-opt the local Dems, do that as well. Our first goal is counties where Our Guys have local institutional support, particularly in law enforcement and the courts. In itself that’s a project for multiple generations – finding the jurisdictions that are already “almost there” and moving the needle toward Our Thing as many notches as necessary. To leverage electoral politics to our advantage, we need to be the guys in the smoky backrooms selecting the candidates for sheriff, judge… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
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Citizen of a Silly Country

Agree 100%. We need to start building where we can and at whatever level we can. Lower level county offices, dog catcher, you name it.

Thurgood
Guest
Thurgood

Take a lesson from the “Kosher Special,” team. If “your guy,” isn’t on both sides of the ticket, you have made a profound mistake. Politics exists to settle contention. Your issues should not be in contention. They should be cast as moral universals or understood as a priori necessities.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Perfectly stated, Thurgood. Excellent.

Rwc1963
Guest
Rwc1963

Dude the GOP is doomed thanks to demographics. Besides our side lacks the talent, money and drive needed to pull it off. Besides that we’re out of time. We have 5 years at most to get our act together before the Left and Big Tech drops the hammer on us. Once FL and TX go purple it’s the end for whitey. Pay attention to what the Demonscats are saying – they want us dead and gone. If they get into power they will destroy the U.S. in short order. Go read the House Bill “The Way Forward Act” If that… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Rwc, that “The Way Forward Act” is Le Deluge.

I mean, bringing BACK those already deported? So they can do what, exactly, add to our rich national fabric?

Member

I’ve read about The Way Forward Act. I’m waiting for David French to write an NR piece on it, The Conservative Case for Abolishing the United States and Enslaving Its Population.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

black pill f@ggot. Just because you’re a defeatist little bitch doesn’t mean the rest of us are.

nurbando
Guest
nurbando

“Just talking about whites as just another group is jarring to whites who have been trained to never, ever think in racial terms.”

This is becoming less true in metro and suburban areas (e.g. outside the Imperial Capital) where the influx of non-whites has turned whites into minorities.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I’m in the Imperial Capital and it’s happening here, at least with the young. I keep telling people that it’s the Asians and South Asians that are catalyst. Whites feel guilt toward blacks and Jews (the Holocaust indoctrination is deep) but they don’t feel guilt toward Asians and Indians.

When they start spouting off at whites, something changes in white people’s faces – even liberal whites. They don’t like it. What’s more they realize that these other groups are exempting them from their screed. That dot head doesn’t distinguish between good and bad whites. We are only white.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

That whole guilt thing is something that needs to be addressed. Northerners especially – should feel no guilt about black slavery in this country. When I run into people who start making arguments about the “black experience” in this country – I typically remind them that something like 350,000 NORTHERN men DIED to “defeat slavery”. When you compare that number against say US WW2 deaths – and factor in population levels – the deaths rate during the Civil War was massive. When you factor in the succeeding generations not born – because of those deaths – that is also a… Read more »

Din C. Nuttin
Guest
Din C. Nuttin

Genrikh Yagoda dispels quite a bit of Jewish victim guilt.

Mark Auld
Guest
Mark Auld

Calsdad, Now what’s a Southron supposed to say to that? I spy a fissure.

Member

Fake fissure. If you can find me five southern men that want to bring slavery back, I’ll be surprised. Most just would like them not trashing up their neighborhoods. “We should have picked our own damn cotton.”

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Well yes – the Southrons have a bigger issue than us Northerners. The fact that your fight has been maligned as “defending slavery” – makes your task a lot harder. I understand the reality of that war is that the vast majority of Southern men didn’t own slaves – and fought the war to defend their homelands – but the propaganda says otherwise.

Honestly – I don’t know what to tell you. But I also don’t see why I should abandon my argument just because it doesn’t work for somebody else.

Member

There’s an Indian bitch, Saira Rao, that is holding $2,500 dinners to lecture White women about their evil, racist Whiteness. And White women are paying for that shit. The psychosis runs deep.

Member

Not only did hundreds of thousands of White men fight and die to free them, Black people in the US have a higher standard of living than anywhere in Africa. You’re welcome. Debt paid. The fact that they’re not grateful makes me want to put them all on boats back to Africa.

Screwtape
Guest
Screwtape

Indeed Citizen. The lefts anti-white racism reflex will work to our advantage. In particular, helping to turn white women war brides away from the leftist occupying force and back toward their men and culture. All this Beck-Karen stuff we see even in the ‘mainstream’ media is a dose of reality to the goodwhite progs and churchladies alike. White is white bitches. They are coming for you. And your precious one-and-done kid. My sister has lived in VA and now in PA. Her two kids are in suburban public schools. The dots and the other invade/invite clans are feeling quite swolle… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

I’ve been saying for years that middle and upper-middle class white women are next on the hit list. They’ve been insulated, but those walls are coming. They can’t get their brains around what they see on TV – which panders to them – and what they are starting to see on the ground.

One of my kids was talking about “Karen” memes. I told her, “You know, that’s directed at white women specifically. They’re talking about your mother, and some day, you.” That surprised her. Welcome to the club, kid.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

If white women start to turn it’s over fast.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

Now that I’m thinking about it, that may be the winning strategy. How to turn white women…

Maybe it’s time to abandon MGTOW and re-engage. Hold your nose, take that spoonful of castor oil and get yourself a white girlfriend. Deal with her drama. CQC in the war of the sexes. That would be the place to start.

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

You’ll need some changes in divorce law first. There’s a reason for MGTOW.

Paintersforms
Guest
Paintersforms

That’s very true but it can’t be hoped for. Also divorce law has favored women forever so it’s not the root of the problem, even if a huge barrier.

Somebody had to storm the beach at Normandy. And I say that as someone who’s taken his lumps and continues to. Guys who’ve been through an ugly divorce, sure, retire.

Beyond that I think conditions are much more favorable than they were a decade ago. Women are starting to question feminism. Not a majority but not an insignificant number either. It’s as good a time as we’ll get.

Member

The district white moms demanded moar diversity. Got it. Now demand something must be done about all the violence, bullying, and cratering test scores.

When life mirrors satire.

https://youtu.be/p8_IWE7_aCw

Member

It’s happening here in flyover country at big corporations. The MIS guys I work with know the score and will say very directly that the white guy who got fired for a screw up got fired because he is white & that an Indian would never have been shown the door for the same error. Had a friend introduce a white guy to my analytics team leader; we chatted afterword & he mentioned that, of course the white guy couldn’t be hired for analytics now because analytics only hires Indians (2/17th of my group being heritage Americans). It’s tough to… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Jeebus H. Cripes, BTP.
What the hell?

That is pure, unadultered Replacement.
What are we, Ireland? England? Canada?

Just think. Our kids will be entitled to pay *their* Social Security. Yeah, I can see this system lasting that long, for sure.

jaysus
Guest
jaysus

US is more replaced than Europe.
Do you believe Europe is more diverse than the US?

Where do you get your ideas from?
Movies?

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Jeez. From the Woodpile:

“At Cambridge University, white professors and administrators have assigned to them a person of color to guarantee that no literary expression and fact of history, law, physics or biology “offends” a protected minority.”

Comissars. Political officers attached to every unit, ensuring that politically correct edicts are obeyed.

jaysus
Guest
jaysus

The US invented affirmative action which is more coercive than the Cambridge scheme. US universities have mandatory diversity lectures-not so in Europe.

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

If any state were to do away with single district, first past the post elections and move to a European-style proportional representation system, that would be huge for us.

All it would take would be one state to do this for their legislative elections and the others would follow suit.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

MWV, Maine has ranked choice voting, and the caucuses seem similar as it goes in “rounds.” Don’t even get me started on convention super-delegates. D candidates are “selected” not “elected,” to revive an old meme.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

I’ve been arguing for disassembling the two party system for decades now. It was pretty apparent to me from looking at European politics – that any sort of non-standard left , or non-standard right wing views would have a better chance of succeeding if the Democrat/Republican duopoly was broken. Who argued the loudest FOR retaining it? All the normie cuck conservatives that I ran across – that’s who. They’d scream ” we have a two party system!!” . Providing them with the quotes from guys who founded the country – who spoke against ANY political parties – and showing them… Read more »

Member

And it’s here. We might even get it this year. The two leading candidates in the Democrat primaries – are communists. Sanders comes right out and admits it – Buttgag is very circumspect about it, but his father was and he admits he admires his father, so he is too – he’s just a better liar. I keep wondering if this will ever come up. His father wasn’t just a casual communist, he was a professor dedicated to the studies of Antonio Gramsci. In other words, he was hardcore. Unfortunately, probably 95% of the electorate has no idea who you… Read more »

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

It will never come up – if people don’t bring it up.

So I’ve started bringing it up.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Civil Rights was the U.S. version preceding Trudeau’s Charter in Canada- both countries had their Constitutions replaced.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

The constitutional structure of the US Republic was very carefully massaged and replaced at the advent of the “progressive” era. The ‘civil rights’ stuff of the 60s was just piling on.

Dutch
Guest
Dutch

Notice how “white privilege” has come and gone? That’s because once “white privilege” is pointed out to whites, the next step is for many of them to get the picture and tribe up, as they are being judged as a tribe anyway. It’s not exactly what the accusers were shooting for, so it has been quickly buried.

Wolf Barney
Guest
Wolf Barney

It’s also so easy to agree and amplify. “Yeah white privilege is a problem, but a bigger problem is Asian privilege….or even worse is J-privilege!”

Citizen of a Silly Country
Guest
Citizen of a Silly Country

Yep. I positively look forward to people using the phrase white privilege since it gives me the excuse to say, “What about Asian privilege since they do better? Or for that matter, what about Jewish privilege?”

It’s like shooting fish in a barrel. You show the other person to be an idiot and anti-white, and you get other whites in the room to realize that people hate them for no real reason other than they’re white.

Member

My experience has been when you bring that up, normiecons shut their brains down and call you a racist or anti-Semite.

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

Preach Citizen! The big stick lies upon the ground, begging to be picked up. It will be difficult for the Left to attack a call for fully including whites in Civil Rights protections for the same reason the left has a hard time responding to the IOKTBE flyers. There is no way to oppose IOKTBW or Civil Rights for All without appearing racist. The greater difficulty will be struggling with the establishment right, classic liberals and the civnats. Prager, shapiro, et al will rage that whitey must not bite from the forbiden apple of ID politics- they just want whats… Read more »

Rwc1963
Guest
Rwc1963

Civil rights for Whites? Won’t be allowed to happen.

Look, TPTB have never allowed a valid 3rd party to form in this country. Reform Party came close but was destroyed. The Tea Party was co-opted from day one. IOW’s the DR is bullshitting itself thinking they will be allowed to play on the same turf as the CivNats or NormiCons

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

That’s what Latrayvon said about civil rights in the 50’s.

Member

Civil Rights for Blacks was useful to TPTB. What do TPTB get from advancing dissident right politics?

Michaeloh
Guest
Michaeloh

TPTB circa 1950’s were not the same as TPTB circa 2020 so I dont entirely agree. In general what TPTB want is important, but they are not gauranteed victory. If they were then the populist victories of the early 20th century like trade unions and the income tax would never have happened.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

Oh look, more “whites are doomed” talk from the resident p@ssy.

Member

Besides civil rights for whites our side can capitalize on the jihad against masculinity. Men of all races are getting sick of that which is why these woke feminist anti male movies have been bombing.

I can foresee over time the Republicans becoming the male and married white woman party and the Democrats becoming the female party. The Republicans would also become the white party but that would not be its branding. Getting red pilled about women starts opening men’s eyes to a lot more about the game the tribe is playing.

Yman
Guest
Yman

“Civil Rights for Whites!” Is that “white” people including such as: “white people” who chosen the ((winning team)) and “white people” who think ((egalitarianism)) is real, downgrade themselves and become lesser being through race-mixing If white people impossible to come out this conclusion like “family is closed society and closed society is healthy” forget about them, you can’t reform that person’s lifetime attitude to reality You can’t enlighten 1960s hippies, and you can’t enlighten “Anti-white” Suburban White Professionals American Empire is already “open society, open market” plundering machine contribute to kill white race the only solutions are you sabotaged white… Read more »

sirlancelot
Guest
sirlancelot

Sounds like the tea party part deux. ” Meet the new boss , same as the old boss ” Hopefully now we have some big brains in the house. and ” We won’t get fooled again ” 🙂

ChetRollins
Guest
ChetRollins

Playing Hazony as a useful idiot and then eliminating him when he stops being useful would be delicious irony.

Member

Hazony is not a useful idiot. He knows what he is about. And what he is about is gatekeeping & co-option.

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

At the beginning of the month he was descrying “The return of race science” i.e., genetics, to academia. While his adopted country turned to genetic testing to determine Jewishness. Has he come out against that? Does anyone know? Has anybody asked him?

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Interesting to use genetic testing. What genes constitute a Jew? Certainly, such a test is not based in the Torah. Wonder what the Rabbis say?

Major Hoople
Member
Major Hoople

It is surely no coincidence Comrades that Hazony appeared when he did.

I’ve always scoffed at conspiracy theories…not this time though. This has been a well organized and financed rollout.

Member
MossHammer

Reading Zman makes me feel like Neo in the Matrix when, awoken, he goes back in and is fighting the bad guy with one hand, which is moving at light speed.

“As noted in the past, Hazony’s game here is to rebuild the walls between the good thinkers inside and the very bad thinkers outside. Instead of rebuilding the old wall in place, he plans to extend the perimeter so the new wall will include the more docile nationalists and populists, who are happy to have a platform, but will not threaten the castle of cosmopolitan globalism.”

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Let’s hope that Hazony is not a modern Caesar and this does not turn out to be a “Siege of Alesia” redux.

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

It’s like Tony Bennett singing Hank Williams tunes at the Grand Ole Opry. Yes I hear the song but something about that singer?
It’s not a natural fit.
Nationalist people are mostly natives to our particular culture and many of us will notice something not quite right about the new wall builders.

Member

I think we will be thinking about gatekeepers and these new wall builders for a while to come. Rusty Reno’s book and F.H. Buckley’s book (American Secession) strike me as similar efforts. Reno does a great job diagnosing exactly what is wrong with globohomo and how the magazine he runs has played a big part in it, but then he simply hopes that globohomo, well, eases up a bit, see? Similar thing with F. H. Buckley – outlines the logic behind secession (while of course making the point over and again that racism bad, very bad) but then argues that… Read more »

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

European nationalists wave Israeli flags to avoid being called Nazis and this works about as well boomer cucks playing DR3. I don’t think Hazony provides any more “cover” than a base black at CPAC. It would be better to burn the flags and end this game of pretending that there is somehow a wall between Jews in Israel and Jews outside of Israel. Worrying about the relationship of this or that Jew to our thing is a waste of time. Better to make all nationalist and even fake nationalist groups inhospitable to them and politely show them the door. Thus… Read more »

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

This is not a practical solution. You don’t just jump from 0 to 100 mph immediately.

We countersemites must focus on getting people to notice, before we get them to take action.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

Re: “focus on getting people to notice” Here is what I would say to people want to broach those topics: I live in the north – my ancestors didn’t own slaves , but died nonetheless in the northern armies that defeated the south and thus freed the slaves. My dead ancestors – and most importantly their progeny that never existed because of those deaths – are a price my family already paid. Please explain how I am personally responsible in the here and now – seeing as how my family already paid a high price. I think that debt has… Read more »

c matt
Guest
c matt

They will simply respond “You are white, and therefore guilty” and all the (((usual suspects))) and their pets will applaud. It makes no sense, it follows no logic, it has no factual support.

So asking them to EXPLAIN is pointless. Just say no. I am not guilty.

KGB
Guest
KGB

“So asking them to EXPLAIN is pointless.”

Pretty much, yeah. But I do like the idea of dissidents punctuating our take on things with the question, “What are you going to do about that?” Asked calmly, with a hint of a smile, will probably cause massive apoplexy. They’d rather not admit they want to put you in chains, but that’s the sort of question that forces their hand. Make the choices plain to all and sundry.

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

If you’re dealing in an internet argument – then yes , I agree with you. Asking somebody to “explain” – leads you nowhere. It’s different though when you’re face to face with somebody – and they can sense your underlying rage at the assertion of guilt – and you just keep saying “Explain”. When they diddle and fiddle and can’t come up with a good reason – and you just keep pushing the “explain” tactic – they will often fold. It’s why I bring up the numbers of dead. When you start using the argument that your ancestors literally died… Read more »

Calsdad
Guest
Calsdad

I fail to see where the problem is there. So if you force their hand into saying right to your face “You are white and are therefore guilty” – then they just opened the door to you making statements like “blacks are guilty of the vast majority of crime in this country and have proven themselves incapable of living in harmony with other races -thats why black faces fill up so many jail cells”… closely followed by: “Jews are responsible for undermining every society they have taken residence in – they are guilty of pattern of behavior that has been… Read more »

Federalist
Guest
Federalist

I think it is important to point out the blacks had essentially no role in freeing themselves from slavery. That was a fight between white people. The same goes for voting rights, etc. Blacks got whatever rights that white people decided to grant them.

Member

Blacks know that, and they are very touchy about it.

Federalist
Guest
Federalist

I look at it a little differently. You are right that in saying that you have no guilt in that your Northern ancestors didn’t own slaves and some suffered and died in a war that freed slaves. However, I don’t think that we should ever have to explain ourselves in this regard. Some of my ancestors owned slaves and/or fought for the Confederacy. Why should I feel any guilt about my ancestors? Do blacks feel shame that their ancestors were slaves? What’s more dishonorable: being a slave owner or being a slave? We live in a crazy society. People revel… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Hell, forget about slavery. Why am I responsible for the “plight” of “Hispanics” in this country?

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

I do not follow you.

Are you telling me that replacing the head of an organization no one has heard of is moving too fast?

Or are you saying that no one will notice the flag of our greatest ally being burned in public?

Or are you saying people will notice these things, but draw the wrong conclusions from them?

MemeWarVet
Guest
MemeWarVet

People noticed when Patrick Little spit on the flag of our “greatest ally” in public. He looked like a lunatic.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

Point taken. But Little tended to come off like a lunatic no matter what he was doing.

Out of context, the destruction of symbols makes no sense.

As I see it, taking a loosely or ill-defined context and using the spectacular to reframe or redirect it is how this can work. And few things are more spectacular than fire, or the destruction of a group’s holy things.

The silent mass-burning of Israeli flags outside of something like the Weinstein trial is the sort of thing I am thinking about.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Vegetius, you got me thinking about that too. What would the reaction be if such a flag-burning stunt were pulled?

ReturnOfBestGuest
Guest
ReturnOfBestGuest

Do they? I genuinely don’t recall ever seeing that. Even after having lived in Europe. Can you link some examples?

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

I do not agree that we need to push to oust Paul Godfried from the HL Menchen Club. Paul’s job is not to provide cover even if he could. We live in a nutty world and quite frankly I don’t agree with Godfried 100% but I do maybe 90% and his being Jewish in this particular club has nothing to do with our success or failure. I don’t think this idea that Jews do us harm so they must be purged everywhere is a good idea at all.
This is not the road we need to go down.

Member

One wonders just who this “we” is.

G Lordon Giddy
Guest
G Lordon Giddy

The “we” good friend is normal American whites of European descent of which I am one. I am not Jewish but if we are gonna mention Paul Godfried as someone needing purging that idea is AOC type nutty.
We will never achieve our goals going down purging paths and Paul Godfried Is not an issue AT ALL so why even bring it up.

Rwc1963
Guest
Rwc1963

Thank you for noticing the obvious that something is rotten in Denmark so to speak.

To me it reeks cf already being co-opted by the tribe.

That said we’re going to have to stop using the label WN’s to id ourselves since the FBI has put WN’s in the same threat category as ISIS.

Member

There is the risk that Hazony et al succeed. His sort co-opted the Tea Party movement and managed to use the energy for their own ends…and then safely ground/dissipate the energy behind the Tea party. We may gain insight to the thoughts of the ruling class by examining this and other reactions, but they can still call on beau coup cash and support from their sort. While not going hammer & tongs vs Hazony & Co, we do need some bumper-sticker and/or elevator argument responses to civnats & normies inclined our way. To keep them from falling in with Hazony… Read more »

Drake
Guest
Drake

In retrospect, the Tea Party was such low-hanging fruit to these types. I went to a rally and it was basically open-mic night.

Vegetius
Guest
Vegetius

The elevator argument is to point out that Hazony is not one of “us.”

Then just point out that he is not an American. You don’t need to get into who or what he is if the other person is stupid, blue-pilled or a boomer cuck.

Horace
Guest
Horace

…trying to sum up the gatekeeping process succinctly for normie. Ben Shapiro and fellow travelers try to give conservative leaning people who know something is wrong and are looking for answers just enough so that they stop looking for more, but not enough that they awaken and start organizing in their collective self defense. Shapiro wants us to point at the young people in Antifa as the enemy instead of the globalists who are in possession of the control nodes of Western Civilization and using them to rape us to death. The young in Antifa are a symptom, not a… Read more »

Exile
Member
Exile

The current Zio-frenzy of aggression and paranoia definitely has a “darkest before the dawn” feel to it. Our enemies are not as united as we often see them superficially. There are deep disagreements in the factions of the Tribe and their shabbos carpetbaggers about how and how fast to replace and subjugate us. Should they go low and slow toward the inevitable finish, keeping it quiet like the old mob bosses who told Gotti to say out of Time Magazine? Or should they bust out now, seizing the moment before the troops get restless and start punching rabbis in Brooklyn?… Read more »

Anon
Guest
Anon

The mainstreaming of any kind of nationalism is unlikely, at least as long as the synarchical Cabal is confident it can shame, brainwash and teargas the current turbulence into exhaustion. For nearly five years, many a Lyle Lanley has offered to salvage the globalist project from itself, from Peter Thiel’s Eric Weinstein to Jordan Peterson, and none has found a receptive ear among TPTB. They all had the shock toons loosed on them, for fear that their proposed adjustments might open up the floodgates of skepticism. Back in early 2017, there was talk that Gavin McInnes’s “western chauvinism” would be… Read more »

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Gavin McInness, despite having, in my opinion genuine and accurate opinions on gender roles, was never about creating a movement other than to market Gavin McInness. I accept that, and I also accept, that the market was there for someone to exploit in a certain place and time. He’s another one that doesn’t have salience. He founded a stupidly named group, knowing that Elks clubs were long ago driven into the ground, and when some of its actors were unfairly prosecuted he cut and run, leaving them with nothing but stupid tattoos as mementos of this group. And what was… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

How do you know that outside the realm of thought and chatter nationalism isn’t mainstream? Americans are deeply patriotic, and hardly enthused of globalism. They rightly see Globalism as a scam. Most of the world does. Only those in on the swag love globalism, and that can’t even be 15% of the population. People vote especially Democratic out of tribal loyalty to dead man gods like FDR. They only just awoke to the truth- and voted for a leader. The first one who came along. “Nationalism will never go mainstream.” You’re waiting for CNN to bless this? Well globalism will… Read more »

Anon
Guest
Anon

This entire discussion is about elite culture and how it adjusts to the populist challenge. Your point is irrelevant at this juncture. Globalism is the default position in the circles that matter. As to your contention that nationalism is mainstream among dirt people, I challenge the idea that it is anything more than a fringe position at this stage. Americans are so confused they don’t even know what their nation is anymore. Patriotism, for most, means drinking from a flag-emblazoned mug and going goo-goo-ga-ga every time the military blows something up. None of which has anything to do with the… Read more »

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

The Swamp: “We need a Wall!”

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Please let me use it, I been dyin’ to use it.

“But you know, Zman, this kind of thinking inevitably leads to a…”

Yves Vannes
Member

Always play the fairness card: Every racial and other form of group identity has a formal organization defining, organizing and advancing their particular group interests – as a racial group. They do so at the national, state and community levels. Every university, every school district, every professional organization, every corporate organization has a foot in this. A large part of our bureaucracy and of our legal institutions revolve around these racial group interests. There is only one group not permitted to pursue their own group interests formally. In an increasingly multicultural society to be denied these same right in protecting… Read more »

Tolstoy
Guest
Tolstoy

You can have a lot of fun with the names on the masthead of Hazony’s “Edmund Burke Foundation” and Google. (https://burke.foundation/people/) You’ve got veterans of the American Enterprise Institute, Christians United for Israel, even an Anti Defamation League lawyer. If that meme of the hand-rubbing merchant wearing a normie mask came to life and was a Washington foundation, this would be it.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

If you’ve read “Reflections on the Revolution in France” the irony is great. Burke went after Jews the way Mike Enoch goes after them today. It would be like, 220 years from now having Jews run a “Mike Enoch Society.”

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

Salience is key to any movement. Plenty of movements have fizzled out because they lack salience. The Tea Party was exactly like this. It had all kinds of reactive energy, but could easily be coopted with a few ideas being picked off by the establishment. The establishment now comes to the dissident movement and attempts to look for anything it can pick off for its own. Sort of like penguins building a nest from pebbles stolen from other penguins. The problem that will vex them is that the dissident movement is less about ideas and more about, as Pat Buchanan… Read more »

Barnard
Guest
Barnard

Zman pointed out one of the clearest tells a group like this is a gatekeeping group when reported from the Washington D.C. conference. They get excited, sometimes to the point of resembling rabid animals when given an opportunity to call a white person on the right a racist.

Steve Sailer asked Hazony on Twitter if he would let Charles Murray speak at a conference devoting half the time to nationalism and half to his new book. Hazony disingenuously claimed he didn’t know enough about Murray’s positions to know if he would.

Thurgood
Guest
Thurgood

One wonders how much “cover,” the Hazony faction actually provides. Given the backlash against Rome attendees, the total absence of any payoff, and the low billing of Zionism generally in Europe, the calculation is dubious at best. Of course, the fact that some, perhaps many, of the “nationalists,” in Europe are just Trump-like Zionist tools, with no intention to deliver on much in the way of actual nationalist policy, is a handy explanation for why the likes of Orban would be present. Salvini appeared further from that orbit, but perhaps Bannon arrived in Italy with just enough carrot and/or stick… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Excellent Z.

Realism and being able to see the lightening sky at once.

Our skies brighten, the Left’s grow darker.

The correct strategy is that of the Euro-Right – to co-opt the co-opters

Lei
Guest
Lei

If anyone knows german, watch the ‘digitaler chronist’. It’s going on there. Merkel put her foot in it big time.

Member
Felix_Krull

Here’s an English video from our man in Germany

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKMZ-5ZPjMc

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

If you want to see a similar situation going on on the left, take a look at the CNBC stock whore that the establishment will be running against AOC. It’s right out of NBC central casting, corporate Latina from HR chosen to put uppity communist Latina in her place. This is what they do. It’s all focus group. If AOC was savvy she would make a big issue of it. A stock pumping whore for corporate America runs against poor little bodega shopping Latina. This is why Bernie and AOC, and their “squad” are valuable. They do way more for… Read more »

Barnard
Guest
Barnard

AOC only beat Crowley by 4,000 votes in a low turnout primary. She is a gaffe machine who could easily lose a primary to someone like Michelle Caruso Cabrera with the right messaging. If enough voters in NY 14 think AOC is making them look foolish and hurting employment opportunities in the district they will boot her.

JR Wirth
Guest
JR Wirth

I don’t know the demographics of the district other than that it’s a sh*thole. Show me the demographics and I’ll show you the destiny. I wouldn’t necessarily look at past primaries because AOC wasn’t a name brand until she got to Congress. From the map the district looks like hell on earth. The place where Sherman McCoy made a wrong turn in Bonfire of the Vanities. I’m not sure if Manhattanite West Elm Latina would do well there or not.

Member

It’s right out of NBC central casting

Ironic because AOC herself auditioned to play the role of Congresswoman for the Justice Democrats. She was entirely a stage-managed construct.

Chad Bigly
Guest
Chad Bigly

What do you think AOC is? The same thing!!! She answered a casting call by Justice Democrats to run in that district.

Member
Felix_Krull

Off topic, sorry, but check out this latest installment from woke capitalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShfsBPrNcTI

Dig the dindu 1:31 speaking about his “Viking ancestors”.

They hate us more than they love profit.

Member
Felix_Krull

So now Scandinavian Airlines have put the video on private – saw it move from 5K downvotes to 10K in less than an hour.

Still up on FB though: https://www.facebook.com/SAS/

Member
Felix_Krull

Still up on FB though

Scratch that. It’s been memoryholed.

Yves Vannes
Member

It’s been shoah’d

Member
Felix_Krull

Too bad – it was Gilette-levels of artistry: a bunch of POCs pocsplaining to white Scandinavians that there’s no such thing as Scandinavian culture, it’s all been invented elsewhere. The hate was palpable: all the whiteys were either old, fat, ugly or all three, and imbued with the slow wit and base habits so characteristic of goys. A fat retard Dane attempts: “windmills…?” As if one single person in Denmark believe that windmills were invented in Denmark, but if anyone were in doubt, we have some Asian dude doing the “tsk, tsk, those silly Danes”-attitude: no, they were actually invented… Read more »

Member
Felix_Krull
The Last Stand
Guest
The Last Stand

Damn, my blood boiled watching that even though my ancestors are not Vikings. If anything they were raided by them.

Member
Felix_Krull

If anything they were raided by them. Don’t believe all that Church propaganda. The Vikings were friendly and nurturing people, spreading peace, love and liberty by launching a series of humanitarian missions to protect the locals from their evil Saxon overlords, and almost succeeding in their venture until tragically thwarted by Alfred the Cruel of Wessex. Untold numbers of refugees were helped across the North Sea to find work in Scandinavia, Russia, Byzantium, and the Abbasid Caliphate, and the Norsemen’s humanitarian zeal eventually inspired the local potentates to donate large sums of silver to the relief efforts. Three hundred years… Read more »

Compsci
Guest
Compsci

Picture is worth a 1000 words. Thanks. Vile half truths. If one wants something toward a whole truth, then the not so nice things outside of Scandinavia need to be shown. How about just anything in the Middle East today. Anyway, you don’t need to import Blacks, Browns, and Sand people to adopt any benefits as their culture may possess. You can send over a cadre of anthropologists and have them report back. Worked with Marco Polo.

Alzaebo
Guest
Alzaebo

Hooray, Krull! You found it too.

The Wallenberg family owns SAS.
Wallenberg family businesses employ 40% of Sweden’s labor force.

WE WAS VIKANGS

Mark Stoval
Guest
Mark Stoval

“The proper strategy for the right wing must be what we can call ‘right-wing populism’: exciting, dynamic, tough, and confrontational, rousing and inspiring not only the exploited masses, but the often-shell-shocked right-wing intellectual cadre as well. And in this era where the intellectual and media elites are all establishment liberal-conservatives, all in a deep sense one variety or another of social democrat, all bitterly hostile to a genuine Right, we need a dynamic, charismatic leader who has the ability to short-circuit the media elites, and to reach and rouse the masses directly. We need a leadership that can reach the… Read more »

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

Nationalism will never go mainstream.”

You’re waiting for CNN to bless this?

Well globalism will never be popular.
Take your pick; populares or our withered, wizened elites?

Stina
Guest
Stina

Hazony was truly the most disappointing thing of the last 4 years. He’s the only one to put out a treatise on Nationalism and he watered it down to the point of non-existence.

I get I shouldn’t be surprised, but since I formed my nationalist ideas in the crib of the Old Testament, I thought a Jew would be the only one able to politically defend nationalism. He just couldn’t avoid the “Jews are special” trope.

Moran ya Simba
Guest
Moran ya Simba

It may be simplistic but to me the litmus test for any ‘nationalist’ if whether they think, say Finland, should be the national home of the historic Finnish people, and so on and so forth. I haven’t read Hazony’s book but if he can’t satisfy that simple test, he’s a mole from the other side.

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

DOJ lawyers quit after Trump tweet that Roger Stone sentence too harsh.
Trump said 1 way justice won’t work.
(((Usual Suspects))) 2/4 lawyers.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-prosecutors-resign-after-top-brass-reverses-course-on-roger-stone-sentencing.amp

vxxc💂🏻‍♂️😉 Toxic masculinity vector
Guest

On the actual subject of the new (((Masons))) …I’m forming the opinion that the DNC/machine is afraid of running a J-w for President. >That would explain a lot of the panic. They’re right; Bernie or BB as nominee would and will unleash anti-s@mitism. This board would be going nuts. Mayor Pete will go down BTW once Black primary voters have a say, he polls zero with Tar Baby. 👨🏿‍🦱 Look at this hit piece on Bloomberg over stop and frisk (by a white female feminist of course). BB was just being a responsible mayor. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/11/opinions/bloomberg-recording-racism-stop-and-frisk-filipovic/index.html Dear J—s; this is why… Read more »