Two Wars, Two Visions

Notes: The Monday Taki post is up. This week is a post about the mistakes Russia has made in the war thus far. Sunday Thoughts is up behind the green door, covering some news items of the day. SubscribeStar and Substack.


All wars have their unique character, but the war in the Ukraine is probably one of the strangest in the history of the West. Its strangeness is due to the two sides operating from a different set of facts and a different framework for those facts. It is as if the two sides are fighting entirely different wars. In point of fact, the two sides are fighting different wars, despite doing so on a common battlefield. That reality is about to become clearer as the war moves into winter.

The first main difference in the war is that the Russians are fighting it from a highly legalistic and bureaucratic perspective. The West does not seem to grasp this and keeps treating it like a cartoonish war of conquest. They frame Putin as a version of Hitler, who is now a cartoon villain in the Western imagination. Putin is attacking Ukraine for no reason at all and has no real plan other than war. It is just some irrational land grab, like when Hitler conquered Poland¹.

In reality the Russians have conducted this war like a group of lawyers engaged in complex civil litigation. They spend a lot of time on legalistic points like the official legal status of the disputed territory. Before the start of the war, the Russians put a lot of time into legally recognizing Luhansk and Donetsk as independent territories. The ongoing attacks on these areas by Ukraine was the legal pretext for the Special Military Operation that started eight months ago.

This legalistic mindset is turning up in the response to the terrorist attack on the Kerch bridge in the Crimea. The facts were quickly established. Ukraine took credit for the attack and promised more. Once the Russian investigators confirmed the essentials of the attack, that it was terrorism and sponsored by Ukraine, the Russians could then conduct anti-terrorism activity. Again, this an important legal distinction for the Russians, as it permits specific activities.

Russia launched one hundred missiles at key Ukrainian facilities overnight as a response to the attack and as a warning. Much of the internet is down in Ukraine and parts of various cities are without power and water. You see, Russia can legally attack civilian infrastructure in response to terror attacks. The warning here is that if the terrorism continues, the Russians have the legal right to take out all of Ukraine’s power, water and communications systems.

Contrast this with how the West is fighting the war. At the start, Western governments seized the property of Russian companies and individuals. There was no court case or legal arguments about it. They just did it. They filled Western media with gleeful stories about stealing the yachts of Russian oligarchs. The owner of the Chelsea football club was forced to sell the team. Germany seized the assets of Gazprom, the Russian energy firm that supplies its natural gas.

Then you have the sanctions war. Much of what has been imposed on Russia has been done outside the normal channels. The whole point of the New World Order is that it is a rules based world and those rules are administered though global entities like the World Bank and the World Trade Organization. The point of these groups is to hash out difference between countries. All of those were bypassed. Even the legislatures of the respective countries were bypassed.

When you put the two ways of waging the war side-by-side, you get a picture that is the opposite of what is presented. The one side is bogging itself down in paperwork and legalism while the other side is cutting through the red tape and the rule of law to implement the latest polices. In a way, it is like this war is being waged between the bureaucracy of the post office and the leadership of the Mafia. It is a war between two entirely alien ways of viewing the world.

Another place you see the contrast is in public relations. The Russians have abandoned the field when it comes to the meme war. They have invested no effort in winning the daily news cycle or spinning events into clever narratives. Instead, they provide daily updates on the granular details of the war. If you care about how many flat tires were fixed by Russian forces every day, the Ministry of Defense is your source. Their reports are a dry accounting of the basic facts.

On the other hand, the Western side of the war is a carnival of creative stories that are splashed across Western media. The occupation of abandoned territory in the north was treated like the Battle of the Bulge. The terror attack on the Kerch bridge was a great blow to the Russian army. Once it was clear the bridge was not destroyed and was back in service, it was off to the next narrative. The West has been waging this war on the internet as if it is actually taking place there.

Probably the biggest difference between the two sides is how they explain their respective involvement in the war. The Russians see it as a defense of the Russian people and the Russian homeland. The people in the Donbas are Russians and therefore must be defended by Russia. Further, Western activity in Ukraine is portrayed as part of a larger American effort to destroy Russia. The Russian people are once again being called upon to defend the motherland.

In the West, the war is an abstract thing. It is a defense of democracy, which is a thing no one bothers to explain. In fact, if you ask what it means you get shouted down as a threat to our democracy. Like so much of what has happened in the West over the last three decades, this war is a moral signifier. If you support it, you are a good person, but if you have doubts, it means you are a bad person. Even thinking about why this is true is a sign you may be a bad person.

All wars have consequences but it is never easy to see what they are until they finally arrive, usually long after the fighting has ended. No one at the end of the Great War imagined the events of the 1930’s. In this case, the West is sure that what lies ahead is their New World Order. The Russians think what lies ahead is a multipolar world of which they are an important part. Two powers, fighting two wars with two visions of what comes next and both cannot be right.

¹We know. Everyone knows.


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Quartermaster
Member
1 year ago

“Lost in the tsunami of disinformation from Western media about the war in Ukraine is the fact that the Ukrainian army has performed quite poorly.” The actual performance of the Ukrainian military is something Putin is trying to bury in a flood of propaganda. “The ongoing attacks on these areas by Ukraine was the legal pretext for the Special Military Operation that started eight months ago.” The “legal pretext” was created by Putin. Those attacks were not done by the Ukrainians. Putin has shown he could not care less for his own supporters in the Donbas. It’s not the people… Read more »

Pete
Pete
Reply to  Quartermaster
1 year ago

“Those attacks were not done by the Ukrainians.”

Correct It was the aliens. Again.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

Excellent essay. However, there is one reality we can hang on to in this hall of mirrors: Russia occupies the contested land and it isn’t going to give it back. Whatever the cost.

Steve (Retired/recovering lawyer)
Steve (Retired/recovering lawyer)
1 year ago

After a certain amount of reflection, it should not be difficult to conclude that war is only justified in defense of one’s home, family and culture. Certainly, how such a war is waged is a subject for discussion and controversy (limited or total and everything in between) but the casus belli should always and only be in response to aggressive attacks on one’s home, family or culture. Almost everything else can be handled in some other way. As a corollary, one should always have the means available to wage such a defensive war successfully, i.e., peace through strength. The problem… Read more »

Anson Rhodes
Anson Rhodes
1 year ago

The Russians are certainly pulling their punches. And they won’t nuke Ukraine because there are ethnic/cultural Russians in every town. (When the US nuked Japan, they could be pretty sure they weren’t killing any of their own.)

The vacuum at the centre of the whole fracas is the ethnic Russians in the Donbass. We need to hear from these people, but they’ve been so poorly represented by Russia (and of course completely ignored by the west), it’s as if they don’t exist. Their voice is the only thing that can make a difference in this war.

Allen
Allen
1 year ago

When Putin speaks who is his intended audience? The assumption is that it’s the U.S. and her allies. Perhaps Putin is making his case to other countries which seems far more likely and would help explain some of his remarks. At this point I think he knows it’s pointless to talk to the U.S. and most of the European nations.

trackback
1 year ago

[…] Two Wars, Two Visions […]

Whiskey
Whiskey
1 year ago

Per “Ambassador Kosh” in Babylon 5, “And so it begins.” The weekend FT had a very backdoor column by Gillian Tett that went by praise for Gen McRaven (or craven) [the guy who signed off on every ROE that got SEALs and other spec ops killed and signed off on BS prosecutions of SEALs for war crimes that failed, just to get more medals while his men died for nothing] and his “make your bed speech” on TED Talks or something, to praise for physical rituals, to a column ending demand for “national service.” And that is the weakness of… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Whiskey
1 year ago

Rule-by-terror has been in effect for going on three years now. Part of me would like to see this attempted, to be honest.

Longstreet
Longstreet
Reply to  Whiskey
1 year ago

Give all the white guys guns. I like it.

orsotoro2011
orsotoro2011
Reply to  Whiskey
1 year ago

Go ahead. Please create, train and arm the White Supremacist Militia, Dems.

Wilbur Hassenfus
Wilbur Hassenfus
1 year ago

“Terrorist attack”? It’s a war. Russia started a war. They invaded a neighbor, and set about destroying their neighbor’s infrastructure. Now, if the neighbor responds in kind, this is somehow illegitimate? On what planet? If a Russian soldier shoots a Ukrainian soldier, is the Ukrainian obligated under your psychotic legal theories to simply stand there? Is it “terrorism” if he shoots back? Is at least he permitted to take cover, under the Z Man Convention on International Conflict, or is that “terrorism” as well? Is he allowed to dress his wounds? You’ve gone insane. You’re as crazy as the left.… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Wilbur Hassenfus
1 year ago

You missed the 14,000 civilians killed by the Ukranians since 2014 using artillery against the ethnic Russians in the 2 republics?

Do you think they built all those artillery emplacements and fortifications surrounding Donetsk since February?

Maybe you want to extend your reading beyond the MSM cartoon world.

Bartleby the Scrivner
Bartleby the Scrivner
Reply to  Wilbur Hassenfus
1 year ago

Dear Lord,
I didn’t think anyone was actually that obtuse regarding the facts on the ground.

Spoiler alert;

Santa Claus isn’t real either.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Wilbur Hassenfus
1 year ago

And then one day, for absolutely no reason at all, Putin invaded the peaceful nation of Ukraine.

Ace of Base
Ace of Base
Reply to  Wilbur Hassenfus
1 year ago

Don’t forget about the issue of NATO expansion into Eastern Europe and the incorporation of countries that were formerly in the Warsaw Pact. George Kennan was right about that being a mistake. The Ukraine would have been far better off as a neutral country with a small military, much like Austria.

usNthem
usNthem
1 year ago

In one way or another, the war needs to get a lot less abstract to the US jerkoffs in charge, as it seems like the only thing they’ll understand. The unfortunate downside is a lot more White casualties.

Kralizec
Kralizec
1 year ago

“¹We know. Everyone knows.”

Come for the trenchant and spot-on analysis; stay for the footnotes.

Love ya, Z! Please keep it up. We need you.

Kralizec
Kralizec
1 year ago

Please clap.
Please, please clap.

Kralizec
Kralizec
Reply to  Kralizec
1 year ago

Sorry, this was in response to The Greek’s comment below.

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
1 year ago

I advise everyone to watch Germany in the next months. 29 VIII 2022, chancellor Olaf Scholz gave a lecture in Prague about his vision for the EU. This crisis gave another boost to euro-federalists in Germany (first came after Brexit, expressed by such personae as Sigmar Gabriel and Martin Schulz) that push strongly for another revisionist treaty (after Lisbon) that removes national veto powers, punishes political transgressors (Poland, Hungary) and gives way for European Army to emerge. 21 IX 2022 in New York, Scholz announced that Germany is ready to take seat in UN Security Council as a permanent member.… Read more »

TripleV
TripleV
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Sanctions and the economic collapse we are facing may actually internally strengthen the EU.

TripleV
TripleV
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Maybe strengthen isn’t the proper word for it but with Russia as an external enemy and going from crisis to crisis it is possible that the EU will linger on for a long time with no one from the inside being able to changeling it. Just like the USSR.

The only problem may actually be that the communist were far more sane than the modern EU intelligentsia.

Whiskey
Whiskey
Reply to  TripleV
1 year ago

The EU for all intents and purposes is a dead institution. Without German money to the periphery: Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. it cannot exist. Ursula Van Der Leyen only has authority if she’s handing out money with strings. Otherwise she’s a useless old bag no one cares about. Like Madonna coming out “gay” no one cares. German money depends on the Mittelstand, the industrial exporting machine that comprises a few dozen industrial giants and thousands of mid-tier firms using cheap gas and expensive, skilled labor. OPEC+ now has decided that Asia will pay less for oil and gas… Read more »

Triplev
Triplev
Reply to  Whiskey
1 year ago

Believe me those countries can exist. Some will probably need to bury half of the population until the end of this decade but no one will fight after such a thing for a generation or so.

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

One should become aware how overgrown and export-dependent German economy is. Parts of it are off-shored to places like Poland and supposed impending doom didn’t stop investments here in the least. Besides, EU funds tend to be cycled back into German economy as their companies often benefit from public contracts. A behemoth like that isn’t going to crash and burn overnight. Besides, why would American Empire fight to destroy German industry? The same they helped to kick-start with Marshall Plan? What kind of asset deindustrialized Germany becomes to Americans? Gaia cultism aside, without strong Germany, there is no main plenipotentiary… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Puszczyk
1 year ago

Germany, England and the USA leadership are no longer the from the populations you are drawing your historical precedents from.

A few decades ago there would have been some validity, but the changes mean one cannot use older National interest as a premise for the arguments.

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

While I agree that the circulation of elite underwent negative changes in the last centuries I’m going to oppose blanket-like statements that throw most of the elite into the carny/crazy bag (I reserve it mostly for the aspiring members and few cranky old-timers). Germany for example, still retained quite a number of important old aristocratic elites. I won’t even talk about one of the oldest oligarchies: England. Even if raison d’etre for the elites have changed, they still pursue their goals in a manner they see as most efficient for them. Germans have always been the masters of practical idealism… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

@Puszczyk

I am not throwing them all into the cray bag.

I said the ethnic makeup of the politicians in those countries has changed and where it has not they are mostly women.

It is invalid to try and model these new things using historical precedent.

If new people move into the house next door, I do not try and write a rationale of their behavior based on the character of the people who used to live there.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

To my untrained eye, it looks a lot like the UK’s foreign policy, both pre-WWI Europe and post-WWI Middle East. Which is the biggest reason I believe GAE is the ‘British’ Empire with new headquarters.

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

I trust the claim that revanchism is an important piece in American outlook on foreign relations, that having a vegetable as President doesn’t help the matter (as without an Emperor courtiers are running rampant), although I remain unconviced that your leaders completely lost their marbles and are intent on utterly demolishing Germany…to own Russia? Slow erosion of your ally’s position through immigration crisis is one thing. Throwing a wrecking ball at their economy with INTENT to make them useless in geopolitical power plays is something else. To sum up, I agree that American irresponsibility is increasing chaos everywhere, but I… Read more »

Your Mom
Your Mom
Reply to  Puszczyk
1 year ago

Certain interest groups weren’t as powerful then as it is now. These interest groups have scores to settle that date back hundreds of years, which is why they are gleefully conjuring up ways Russia can be carved out. If it comes at the expense of Germans, so much the better. We are beyond economics, this is utilizing and exercising power that has accumulated over decades.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Germany is on track to a future where they will struggle to manufacture small arms and ammunition in any large quantity, much less something as large and complex as a Leopard main battle tank.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Scholz is channeling his inner Morganthau

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
1 year ago

Putin as it seems, refused to understand that his enemies are not interested in return to classic imperial diplomacy that relied on “Great Powers concert”. Time and time again Russia proposed adopting XIX-century approach to international politics only to hit a brick wall before details could be laid out. Germans (with the French and the Dutch to a lesser extent) were the most receptive to those ideas, although American leash, failed EU policy mechanisms and domestic democratic radicalism undermined efforts to bring any lasting consensus. Obama’s pivot to Pacific was probably the last ray of hope for Putin that offered… Read more »

Vegetius
Vegetius
1 year ago

Musk reboots Starlink, provides Commander Ye with planetary reach.

ZOG liquidated via rhetoric and dragon energy.

JEB
JEB
1 year ago

Z is finally acknowledging, oh so grudgingly, that he was wrong back in March when he was saying things like “Reality in the ground says the Russians are slowly grinding up the Ukrainian army. In a month, there will be little of it left in the east”. Nevertheless you can be sure that he is absolutely right about everything he is saying now, because he says it with such certitude. How can you not trust a guy who thinks so highly of himself? I suggest though that you might want to consider the alternative, which is that the war was… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  JEB
1 year ago

Hard to say correct or incorrect Z was with the first part of that statement. I suspect that the Russians were, in fact, “slowly grinding up the Ukrainian army.” It’s clear that the Ukrainians were taking horrendous casualties at the time. As to the second part, yes, that was incorrect. The Ukrainians were able to mobilize more men that the world expected. Regarding whether it’s a land grab, hard to call invading lands that are occupied by ethnic Russians, who have been attacked for years by the Ukrainians, a land grab. If you don’t understand that, you’re a buffoon. Russian… Read more »

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

I will say that I was surprised by the Ukrainian counter-offensive. Perhaps it was my naivete, but I didn’t expect the Ukrainians to be willing to continue fighting after the meat-grinder of this summer. Putin’s gentleness is partly to blame. He wanted to stay friends with the Ukrainians. Not seeing their cities smashed gave them hope. This winter will be interesting. A much larger Russian force combined with Surovikin means that the war will be taken to Ukraine in a very different way. Regardless, Putin has been incredibly successful in the larger war against GAE. The world has a much… Read more »

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

The world has changed, but still stays the same. Any perusal of histories of the Spanish civil war tell you what is going on in The Battle of the Press: Ukrainia Edition. Orwell’s quote applies here: reading about successful offensives that never happened, and successful defensive actions that he actually saw overrun. It’s even the same papers and institutions doing it. Attacks will happen and be successful because the press is there to film it; they may be attacking a staged defense with blank rounds and far from any actual battlefield, but by golly the London Times will have its… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

The main point we gloss over and JEB can’t understand is that “it ain’t over until the fat lady sings”. Russia, despite the recent (minor) military reversals, is a completely intact war machine. The GAE propaganda machine has been wrong 100% in their analysis of the situation in Ukraine from day 1. First it was that Russian sanctions would cause their economy to collapse. Then it was that Russian losses were so high as to be unsustainable. Then it was that a coup was in the offing and regime change in Russia was imminent. So on and so forth. Idiots… Read more »

Pozymandias
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Here are a few musings of mine on a nice warm sunny fall day here: The thing that became obvious to me within days of the war starting was that the plan was for any reporting about Ukraine to be cartoonish propaganda. I mentioned here before how they started talking about Russia was somehow “late” for their conquest of a nation bigger than Iraq after like 5 days when it took the US over a month to overrun Iraq. It was at that point that I started ignoring almost all reporting from the theater that wasn’t in Russian and my… Read more »

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

People also underestimated or were unaware of how many foreign mercs popped up in Ukraine.

MBS just brokered a deal to return a group of mercs containing individuals from 10 different countries.

There were rumors on Telegram that the Russian MoD has noted up to 30 different nationalities of merc at some of the Uke training bases.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 year ago

Maybe the Russians should start shooting the mercenaries, which as I understand it, is allowed by Geneva Convention. I realize captured pawns are bargaining chips, but nothing like a corpse with a bullet in the head says “We aren’t fucking around.” If naught else, it would likely dampen enthusiasm among would-be soldiers of fortune, no matter what pay is offered.

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  Ben the Layabout
1 year ago

A couple of large thermobaric munitions delivered in the midst of a few large concentrations of these mercenaries might do the trick. Oops, this here ain’t one of those scrappy little Third World conflicts, now is it lads? Larry Johnson made the point recently that, with the change in the charge to the new commander of Russian forces, General Surovikin, that the narure of their effort is changing from a Special Military Operation to a full-bore Combined Arms Operation. That will be a horse of a different color right off, and the latent Russian escalatory dominance can assert itself forcefully… Read more »

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Kinda off-topic, but there is a bizarre structural similarity between Z’s essay today, and an old essay of Leo Tolstoy [concerning Guy de Maupassant] which VD posted today.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

That transition has been seamless, hasn’t it? So many who were cowering in their dark closets, faces draped with rags to keep out the Devil Bug, are now puffing out their chests and daring Putin to rain down nukes. It is simultaneously hilarious and terrifying that the propaganda has that much control and effect.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Well, it’s both.

But, yes, it’s been very eye-opening to see many on the DR accept the narrative on various topics. It took Covid and now Ukraine to show how tied these people remain to the past and to the system.

They can’t let it go. They still believe it can be fixed. Even more importantly, they still crave its approval, which I find truly bizarre.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

There is biological reality also at play, presumably neurological, with some of us being largely immune to propaganda. It seems not to correlate directly with intelligence and so forth. I know brilliant people who swallow the most ham-handed nonsense hook, line and sinker. The proclivity to believe propaganda also seems be getting worse.

It emerged, and was quickly buried, that social media explicitly was designed to be addictive. So it is possible recent discoveries about how we are hardwired to respond to stimulus and information are being exploited. That still leaves on the table the issue of immunity, though.

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Jack Dobson,

Sorry, fat fingered a down vote when I wanted to enthusiastically agree.

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

It’s got to be one of those spectrum traits that are adaptive to some environments and maladaptive in others. Being fed bullshit that’s actually for your own good will actually advantage mildly gullible people, like believing God doesn’t want you to play with yourself. Now you can redirect all that energy over to woodcraft or learning to play the flute. Our present society is run by sociopaths, so the paranoid personality becomes more adaptive. Clearly they put all this porno out here to manipulate me to some nefarious end, I’m not going to fall for their trap and spend my… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Exactly. That is the new dividing line of humanity. The terms “conservative” and “progressive” or “leftist” are meaningless today.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Well, I’m hoping Uncle Ivan nukes our enemies on the coast because I want to see if a Tsar bomb can actually destroy all the two and six-legged cockroaches in New York City, not because of any false bravado. Let’s you and him fight, ya know?

The Greek
The Greek
Reply to  JEB
1 year ago

Is this the real Jeb Bush?

fakeemail
fakeemail
1 year ago

As always, I root for the side that doesn’t call me a racist, misogynist, islamophobic, anti-semtic, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, baseless conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxxer, anti-science, climate denier, election denier, and a deplorable/vile dummy who believes in the flying spaghetti monster.

sneakn
sneakn
Reply to  fakeemail
1 year ago

I don’t root for a side. I’m just a skeptical captive of the one-sided meme war being waged on the internet. If I am on a side, it’s the side of ending this damnable think before it grows into a global conflagration.

fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  sneakn
1 year ago

I understand and agree. But it seems clear who the instigator is here. Could be wrong though; could be the whole thing is phoney on both sides.

Your Mom
Your Mom
Reply to  fakeemail
1 year ago

It’s Muhammad Ali’s quote about the Viet Cong, just changed around a little. No Russian (actual Russians, not (((Russians)))) ever called me a sexist, racist, etc.

Diavolobello
Diavolobello
Reply to  fakeemail
1 year ago

Been tempted since February to change my social media profile pic to a Russian Flag with the words
NO RUSSIAN
EVER CALLED ME
DEPLORABLE
on the different colors, but so far, common sense has won out. 😀

The Kaigat Of Wands
The Kaigat Of Wands
1 year ago

Ukraine and Russia remind me irresistibly of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8XeDvKqI4E&ab_channel=morpheusatloppers

Anonymous Fake
Anonymous Fake
1 year ago

Actually, I think few people know about a million Germans starved during WWI due to the Anglo-American blockade. Or that a million Iraqis starved due to sanctions after the Gulf War (Madeleine Albright admitted this openly), before 9/11 forced a policy change.

Hunger is the greatest motivator.

Member
Reply to  Anonymous Fake
1 year ago

Well, the Germans should have thought a bit more about the consequences of going to war on behalf of Austria over Serbia in 1914, since they did everything they could to ensure that the Royal Navy would initiate a blockade.
Much like the Germans of today, who simply ignored the consequences of supporting AINO’s proxy war with Russia over the Donbass.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes is the history of German foreign and military policy since 1890.

Tykebomb
Tykebomb
Reply to  Anonymous Fake
1 year ago

Again, no one in London thought initiating a blockade of Germany in 1914 would result in Germany starting a genocidal war against Slavs three decades later so they would never starve again.

Who knows what’s gonna happen after this fuck up. Well, except we won’t learn a damn thing.

Bilejones
Member
1 year ago

Well the Taki piece was thoughtful, well reasoned and insightful so it must be wrong. I agree with the reasoning behind Putin’s Pansy approach but think that he had the bigger geo-strategic picture in mind above all else. Russia has shown itself to be, to a ludicrous degree, the upholder in International Law and the sanctity of contract. The degree to which this approach has been successful is quite remarkable. The palpable panic in Washington about the Saudi decision is telling, as is the reaction: Sanctions and punishment. As I’ve said many times, the sense of entitlement among the West’s… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Bilejones
1 year ago

The West is increasingly dependent on creating a moral consensus in the vacuum where Rule of Law used to hold sway. That’s why the propaganda and censorship has reached such dizzying heights. Of course, there’s no rule of law without some sort of moral consensus, but the two are supposed to counterbalance eachother to ensure purity spirals don’t destroy your society by creating an existential threat to classes within a country. That’s why civil wars tend to start with massive upticks in murder, as the ruling regime is either unwilling or incapable to administer law and order equally to citizens,… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

You are just seeing the female/male dichotomy.

In my observation it seems women don’t really have a concept of right as an abstract that must be used as a measure, rather the herd feeling of not being ostracized is the only measure (confused with morals), which can change all the time as to its viewpoint.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

Women are biologically designed to follow the tribe’s consensus because for thousands of years, women’s survival – the the survival of their children was completely dependent on being a good-standing member of the tribe. Therefore, in a women’s mind, the tribe’s consensus is her morality. Agreeing with the tribe means protecting herself and her children, which, of course, is morally correct. Obviously, we’re no longer in that situation, but our biology hasn’t changed. If the DR wants to win over some white women, we need to offer them a competing tribe where they feel safe. This is why TPTB fight… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

Its interesting how the child protection drive has been subverted to child murder and mutilation and protect and welcome the outsider.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

Thinking on that a little more it strikes me then that the media NPC programming has then created a neural structure for a lot of women where children are their enemy and the immigrant/other race/deviant has been switched in to be her children.

I assume if we understood how they were doing the programming, it would be possible to see the non-verbal and semantic layers used to build up this unconscious control structure.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

Yes. The media uses women’s maternal instincts to destroy our people. It’s why women with children aren’t quite as susceptible, at least when it comes to where they live and where they’re children go to school. Of course, for upper-middle class women, if they know that they and their kids are safe by buying their way out of the danger, they will immediately switch back to NPC mode. Blacks are no longer the biggest danger to their life, not holding the right views is, so they make sure to hold the right view. Not to say the right thing, but… Read more »

Disruptor
Disruptor
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

@Citizen of a Silly Country

Another attribute to consider is that women (and men, but especially women) seek status, Rank within population. This promotes rapid evolution: for example, when being good with a bow-and-arrow is valued then those men have high status, when something else becomes valued, women will leap on that.

The media has become the grantor of status, what People Mag portrays as high status garners a significant harvest of adopters. The media is the de-facto evolutionary fitness decider.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

trumpton: “women don’t really have a concept of right as an abstract that must be used as a measure, rather the herd feeling of not being ostracized is the only measure (confused with morals), which can change all the time as to its viewpoint” Citizen of a Silly Country: “in a women’s mind, the tribe’s consensus is her morality. Agreeing with the tribe means protecting herself and her children, which, of course, is morally correct” trumpton: “Its interesting how the child protection drive has been subverted to child murder and mutilation” =============== I don’t know that I would use the… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

@bourbon

The munchausen by proxy is a manifestation of what is now a much wider society wide issue that has been intentionally induced.

But I agree its pretty close to what we see around the vex and mutilation activities that gain media reward for these women as they murder and butcher their own offspring just for the attention.

The level of evil in with malice aforethought inducing a psychosis on this scale cannot be overstated.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Citizen of a Silly Country
1 year ago

Trumpton: “The level of evil in with malice aforethought inducing a psychosis on this scale cannot be overstated.” I don’t know if even the average commentator here chez Z can grok the Evil which you are positing; I think too many of them are still too hesitant to make the necessary stroll through the Abyss in order to come to that conclusion. Evil which would consciously & intentionally invert the fair sex’s histrionic vanity into a compulsion for mutilating and murdering its own children, and deploy Edward Bernays’s mass mesmerization & hypnotization techniques in immanentizing that particular eschaton, is an… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

We’re in an ultra-conservative household, our inner circle being very conservative friends. Unfortunately, when my wife has to go outside the bubble to interact with children-hating liberal piano teachers (ironic) or the medical profession, they oftentimes show a subtle to overt amount of hostility to the number of children we have (4). Shakes her up real good being outside the established moral consensus. I just shrug and try to explain, diplomatically, that those people are the enemy, and their opinion is worse than useless.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

Yes, your wife has a different tribe. That’s huge. She can fall back to your views. Women gravitate to the strongest tribe. Since a particular tribe controls literally everything in their country, particularly, the media, women follow the consensus that they see in the media, schools and corporations. The strongest tribe controls them, so they obey. It’s just biology. However, if women feel threatened by the current tribe’s beliefs or that another tribe might be a better option and can hold its ground against the current tribe, they will switch sides. It has nothing to do with ideas and morals.… Read more »

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

Heh, I grew up among liberals and I remember that sentiment quite well. The funny thing was that leftists wouldn’t bat an eye at some Mexican woman walking through the mall with eight children like a little line of brown ducklings, it was always a white family with three or more kids that set them off. Especially blonde Mormons, that would always elicit some kind of snotty commentary.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

Chet Rollins: “children-hating liberal piano teachers (ironic) or the medical profession, they oftentimes show a subtle to overt amount of hostility to the number of children we have (4)” That’s the Passive Aggressive Industrial Complex reacting to the presence of an Active Aggressor in their midst. Passive Aggressives can sniff an Active Aggressor from 1000 miles away. These are meta-darwinian phenomena which you are witnessing. The genes for Passive Aggression – e.g. infiltrating children’s musical edumakashun structures or pediatric medicine services – the genes for Passive Aggression immediately sense the presence [in their midst] of the genes for Active Aggression… Read more »

Cwenhild
Cwenhild
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

I remember hearing a conservative ex-muslim’s observation on the cruelty and
fanaticism of many women in islamic countries: The mothers of suicide bombers gain a special status. FGM is upheld and practiced by the women. Honour killings are fully endorsed – and often committed – by female relatives. And on and on. Women become absolute bloodcurdling sociopaths in their pursuit of social coin, no matter where they find themselves.

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

There will be no civil war. The War has was already forfeited in 2020. 2020 will go down in history as the year that America died. The covid-cooties hysteria whipped up by the scaremongers in the globalist media was to be the first nail in the coffin, in the process of turning America into the first, world-state. Deaths WITH the cooties became deaths FROM the cooties- if you’ll recall what the Great Liars said. Still, the only people really afraid were the woolen pussyhat npcs addicted to the msnpc kool-aid, and that mass of utterly clueless, peasant consumptards which continue… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Lurking Class Hero
1 year ago

The young and female most encouraged and make their voices heard?

I am surrounded by the mindless braying of the young and female. Like I need more of that mindless herd stupidity.

Is this going to be a cult thing?

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

no, trumptard. Unlike your idiotic trump-cult, it will obviously be a bit beyond you. muh TRUMP bro….

Laff now, cry l8er homes!

yer fired

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

It would be more effective as an insult if you actually had the derivation of the username correct, rather than jumping to the conclusion its about Trump.

Not everything is about the US.

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

mmmm… alright. well. fuck you guys then. enjoy your doom. I’ll be here when you come crying for help when your hair is on fire. I might still tell you to get fuct tho. yeah. I will. forget it homeboyyyy i have no desire to help a motley bunch of keyboard warriors anyway, i LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD, DOING BIG BOY SHIT. HAVE FUN WITH YOURSELVES HERE. the door is now shut. yes, im fickle, and it’s your ass, not mine, ho. this shit is going up, with or without you. enjoy more of the fail.

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

I was your only hope, simpleton. Whateverthefuck you think this is- is not that. I make no apologies for being the shit, and the best out here. I’m the best, faggit, and someday, you’re gonna realize that. I do not need you, peasant. to the contrary… you desperately need a literal creative genius like me to breathe life back into your geriatric, fozzilized, doomed dogdump of an existence. I give two fucks if you want to burn. I’ll let you. Like it’s nothing. Damn. a few bad apples and all… it dont take much with me. in the street, i’d… Read more »

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

I can’t even anymore. I’m going to take the biggest idea since the industrial revolution, and deliver it directly to the zionists, since no conservatives can ever tolerate me. I don’t give a fuck anymore. You just sealed your doom. No matter what you do, you lose now. That’s called a checkmate, dickface. congratulations, are you guys winning yet? get stuffed. I’m sick of you crabby fucking conservatives acting like you know everything. I’m gonna show you a thing or two. you cannot fix the epoch failure you just set in motion for yourselves. I will enjoy the fuck out… Read more »

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

Literally offered to lay the world at your feet. And. Every. Fucking. Time. You stupid cowboys have to laugh and spit in my face in return. I won’t forget that. Your future is mine. Your whole world is mine. There is fuckall you can do about it, now. I will be the biggest curse to your people since josef stalin- mark these words, you wormy piece of shit. You just failed harder than any man has, i think, ever. I’m done bitching. If it’s war you want, it’s a war you’ll get! Fuck you in your neck

Lurking Class Hero
Lurking Class Hero
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

I don’t give a fuck anymore. Wherever I go, leftists idolize and literally flock to me in the street. They follow me around like curious children, and they don’t know why. They just know i’m one of the realest motherfuckers they’ve ever seen. Same thing with gang members, except I scare the piss out of hardened killers like it’s nothing, and they don’t really know why, either. Bosses and og’s love the shit out of me, to be honest. I suppose they can just sense, on an animal level, that a major predator is in their midst, and they all… Read more »

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

O-kaaaay then…

Unknownsailor
Unknownsailor
Reply to  Lurking Class Hero
1 year ago

How to say you are a Gamma, but not say you are outright:

Post a wall of text, and then call people names when they mock you.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Unknownsailor
1 year ago

He can’t even stay in character for his phrasing.

NPCs just can’t grok the cadence of how real people think and write, so they always sound like its auto-generated cut and paste fragments strung together with random padding.

Puszczyk
Puszczyk
Reply to  Bilejones
1 year ago

From what I’ve read, Washington started huffing and puffing at the Saudis, threatening to terminate military cooperation and arms sales, although not officially.

I call it a bluff, cutting Saudis from US support means they have no other way, but to settle with Iran and Turkey on spheres of influence which would cause erratic screeching from Tel Aviv to Washington.That also means Yemen War would have to end and Middle East might enter a new period of (fragile) stability..

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Puszczyk
1 year ago

I think the ME deal is done. Putin has been acting as a broker between the Saudi’s and Iran. Both are going to enter the BRICS bloc. Turkey is moving in that direction too. If nothing else the Biden Regime has caused a large number of the Satraps- pretty much all except The West and Japan (Dunno about S Korea) to ask the simple question: What’s in it for me? Increasingly the answer is Not Much and getting less while the price is going up. Biden was always a bully boy proponent of the GAE , ever clamoring for more… Read more »

Mihc
Mihc
Reply to  Bilejones
1 year ago

In “The Demons”, speaking of one of the characters who for many years had been treated by society with reverence, the narrator says, referring to his habit to be revered (and agreed with): “Ah, what being used to things can do!”.

Can we imagine what the outcomes for the Middle East and the world would be, if Russia successfully brokered a peace and co-operation between the Sunni and Shiite powers? (Read: KSA and IRAN, their allies would follow).

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  Bilejones
1 year ago

The ugly truth is there will be no successful “clean-up” operation.

Russia can’t lose, but they can’t win either.

The US is going to be training guerillas who’ll murder their own “collaborating” people in Ukraine forever.

The “resistance”, if you will.

To a US state department chock full of men and women who learned most of their “history” from Star Wars, Harry Potter, and the Hunger Games what could possibly be more romantic?

Anon
Anon
Reply to  ProZNoV
1 year ago

“The US is going to be training guerillas who’ll murder their own ‘collaborating’ people in Ukraine forever.”

What if Putin’s statement that he will attack the decision making centres is not a bluff?

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

“This legalistic mindset is turning up in the response to the terrorist attack on the Kerch bridge in the Crimea.” Why is Putin saying this is terrorism? It sounds retarded to me. That bridge is a major resupply route to a major front in the war. Besides that, does Putin think he gets to play war in Ukraine and level Ukraine, but Ukraine is not allowed to target anything inside the RF? Are they really larping war? More importantly, does he really believe legalistic word games makes one bit of difference? Or that the “rules of war” matter in the… Read more »

Mr C
Mr C
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

This is just Putin throwing the language of the West back at the West. It forces them to at least realize their hypocrisy even if they do not admit it. If calling it terrorism makes it to a few news sites and a few people realize the hypocrisy and wake up, then he did his job.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Mr C
1 year ago

You know the ineffective rhetoric about dems are the real racists?

Well the west are the real hypocrites is not going to work either.

Mr C
Mr C
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

Totally agree, hence they won’t admit it. However, pointing out examples is important.

Muller
Muller
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

First and foremost, Putin will have his domestic audience in mind when he chooses his words. I’m not sure what web of associations a term like terrorism conjures up in the mind of Russians, but I pretty certain that the Moscow theater attack as well as the Caucasus school massacre are, subconsciously at least, part of it. What followed from the Russian state at the time was a fist of steel. So, Putin speaking of terrorism may be meant to prepare the ground domestically for gloves coming off. The current strikes at selected but widespread Ukrainian infrastructure targets would seem… Read more »

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

Who are they pointing out the hypocracy to? It isnt powerless White Americans. Its leaders of BRICS and Opec. International politics is very different in dynamics from domestic us dynamics. Midwestern international leaders care very much about whether the us leadership is “agreement capable.” Their heads and (vast) fortunes are literally on the chopping block, depending on the answer.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
1 year ago

Idk where autocowreck found “Midwestern” in there, apologies and ignore that word.

Mr. House
Mr. House
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

“More importantly, does he really believe legalistic word games makes one bit of difference? Or that the “rules of war” matter in the slightest? He shouldn’t forget that “who” decides is more important than any alleged rule.”

If you were to ask the average American why the war between the states was fought, what would their answer be?

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Mr. House
1 year ago

By any reasonable interpretation of the Constitution, the war or Northern aggression should never have happened. They entered into the union voluntarily and under a list of conditions. It was assumed that states could leave, at least by some people. But the “rules” don’t matter, it’s who enforces the rules that matter. Our so-called side is ignoring all of the alleged “rules” The very same types of people who made war on the South are in total control of education and mass communications. Can you reasonably expect any American to have anything other than the approved narrative in their heads?… Read more »

Mr. House
Mr. House
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

I agree and i think a lot of people have been picking up on what you say over the past few years. Which makes Putins example of going by the rules all the more important.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Mr. House
1 year ago

Climate change?

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

“Putin think he gets to play war in Ukraine and level Ukraine”

If you think Putin has done that You need to fuck-off back to your Kagan family digs.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Bilejones
1 year ago

I’m not saying he leveled Ukraine, that’s just a bit of hyperbole to illustrate a point. But for sure all of the fighting has been on Ukrainian soil. War is war and the enemy gets a vote. Surely he cannot think the Russian Federation is “off limits” for some legal reason or something. IMHO, what has kept Russia largely off limits is because the US doesn’t want a wider war, it wants to destroy the Russian state in Ukraine. Yes, I still think we are the bad guy. I don’t side with globohomo here. I am neutral to lean-Russia I… Read more »

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

The same surely then applies to the US and EU that are active participants in this war?

Why is Berlin or Brussels off the table?

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

For the same reason Russia has largely been off limits. In this case, the Russians absolutely do not want a wider war. If Russia sent missiles into Germany, NATO Article 5 would have to be invoked.

It would lead to a much wider war with actual NATO soldiers fighting against the Russians and could get very ugly, very fast. Russia does not desire a fight with NATO (proper) and knows it could not win a fight with NATO. Putin fairly recently said so.

John Q. Publick
John Q. Publick
1 year ago

Z, you left us hanging! What do we know??!! Good cliff-hanger!

Mow Noname
Mow Noname
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

“…and then, for no reason at all.”

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Heh. Deft. That was smooth, smooth as glass. The mark of a true operator, a Kyle Rittenhouse of the comment section. A master of internet aikido. Such economy of movement. Heil!

Mr C
Mr C
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

Please, more footnotes. Especially ones with subtle jokes.

Anna
Anna
1 year ago

More and more it feels like a religious war. After fall of communism (state religion) Russia turned to the church for moral guidance. Every Russian movie I’ve been watching is strongly against the abortion and views pedophilia as the worst crime possible.
While at the same time the West turned to neo-Marxism. Even grabbing Russian personal property and boasting about it feels like bolshevics are in charge once again.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

I think that television commercial indicates quite a bit of deftness in the meme war. Since I don’t do social media, I have to assume it is blocked and banned but it has been circulated elsewhere throughout the West, and whether admitted or not most realize it is spot on.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Jack Dobson: The commercials have been derided as propaganda by the USmedia (pot meet kettle) but are, of course, accurate and based.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/propaganda-video-warns-fleeing-russians-about-lgbtq-26-black-people-in-the-us/ar-AA12NIab

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  3g4me
1 year ago

The Western propaganda organs simply made their publics aware of the commercial, and some likely dug around to find it as a direct result. Not the result intended, for certain.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  3g4me
1 year ago

Just went and watched the original commercials. I don’t believe I’m reaching when I note that the proboscis on the man is meant to signify a particular demographic and that this intent will also be obvious to genuine Russians.

https://twitter.com/KermlinRussia/status/1577768742066524168

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Jack: Your point about the meme war is an important one. Putin most needs to convince his own people that Russia is on the side of good, as well as combat our MSM blizzard of lies. Since most Russians are naturally patriotic (except perhaps for some of the more online youth), they don’t reflexively attack their own country and people. The old USSR was better at the propaganda war because its aims aligned with our heavily Juice media and self-styled intelligentsia – the nuclear freeze movement, international feminism, etc. Seems to me that trying to win the international propaganda war… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  3g4me
1 year ago

I’ve long thought if Putin announce he was returning to communism the Western tongue bath would drown him.

Imhc
Imhc
Reply to  Anna
1 year ago

“it feels like bolshevics are in charge once again.”

They are. Or aren’t they?!

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
1 year ago

An interesting theory, which seems to have some merit, has been floated that the economic terrorism against Nordstream was in fact not greenlighted by the United States but was the freelance handiwork of MI6* and Poland. The ruling Greens in Germany were perfectly fine with it because it furthered their religion and a foreign attack resolved the issue of Russian fossil fuels while keeping their hands clean. As I gather from this claim, MI6 primarily was responsible because it aligned with Britain’s Mackinder doctrine to control the Eurasian heartland, and Poland has long-standing animosity toward Moscow along with the economic… Read more »

Connor
Connor
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Blair did not push the Bush cabal into the Iraq war. Bush et al. were after Iraq long before 2003, or even 1997 which was the year Blair became PM.

Blair was appointed head of the Labour Party in 1994 which was still after Bush cronies had publically talked about gunning for Saddam.

Stop making stuff up

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Connor
1 year ago

I’m not making anything up at all. Blair pushed Bush to go to the UN for the resolutions to give the patina of legitimacy to the war. In Operation Desert Fox in 1998, Blair encouraged the Clinton Administration to do the same and was rebuffed.

One theory is Blair wanted to end Labour’s dovish reputation. That may have been part but he really wanted that war and what he couldn’t get under Clinton he did under Bush

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Nah – I don’t see it.

The UK has been an ass kisser gloming onto the US coat tails since the late 80s.

There is no way they would have done this without direction and frankly I don’t think they have the capacity anymore.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

The Royal Navy has been using aquatic drones since March 2021. Agreed the UK is an ass kisser of the US but I find this theory plausible.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Maybe, but the UK is such a junior partner at this stage it might as well be another state.

I can’t see the UK doing this off their own bat in European waters.

Vanishingly small I would say.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Poland yes, Britain probably not. A US Navy ship cased the pipeline the week before (this is on record with one of those track-every-ship outfits), and reportedly a US warplane carrying air-to-ground flew over the pipeline about an hour before the first explosion. Both in the immediate vicinity of the damage. Hmmm.

If it had been Britain, I expect the damage would have happened out in the middle of the Baltic, not damnear to Germany (which is functionally an occupied US territory).

dinodoxy
dinodoxy
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

*People forget, but the primary party initially pushing for war with Iraq was the UK Prime Minister Blair. He had a golden opportunity with the idiot Bush as president, a man who surrounded himself with psychopathic and murderous Neocon warmongers who also wanted that war.

Poppa Bush’s original reaction to Iraq invading Kuwait was quite tepid.

It was only a week or so later, after meeting with Thatcher that he was all this will not stand! It was widely reported at the time that Thatcher had told him “now’s not the time to get all wobbly, George”

Gunner Q
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

The theory is plausible, but Biden said he’d do it and then it happened. I don’t feel a need to search for alternative explanations. Especially when London and DC are the same people for all practical purposes.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

My guess is the US at least suspected what would happen.

Given Nuland’s and Biden’s prescient statements that Nordstream would be stopped one way or another, I find it hard to believe the ZUSA was not significantly involved.

KGB
KGB
1 year ago

I just passed through the break room at work, where FOX Business was on, and Stuart Varney was indignantly sputtering about how these attacks were “clearly revenge”.

No shit! It’s a war, as the media breathlessly reminds us every hour, so why wouldn’t the Russians counter attack? I have no idea what message he was trying to convey; there is no nuance to it beyond Bear Man Bad.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  KGB
1 year ago

Revenge for what?

According to the “western diplomatic sources” the Russian blew up their own pipeline and the bridge.

NateG
NateG
Reply to  KGB
1 year ago

For a second I thought I read Jim Varney. ‘Hey Vern, they’re bombing Kiev!’

Member
1 year ago

From the Taki column: “As John Bolton recently confessed, this can only end for them with regime change in Moscow.”

Another Boomer that can’t die soon enough. Why must that generation cling to power, taking the rest of us down with them as they do so?

Maniac
Maniac
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Doltin’ is the Neocon of Neocons. No surprise there.

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Maniac
1 year ago

If I were Putin I’d have my agents grab Bolton, shave his mustache off, and then have the severed mustache prominently displayed in the Kremlin.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Bolton has nothing to do with being a “Boomer” and everything to do with being a Qatar-funded traitor. Who was filmed walking around in Qatar a week after Trump fired him. What a coincidence.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

The US Air Force and the Chamber of Commerce have both opened offices in Qatar.
Something spooky going on there. Related to the LNG terminal buildout?

Lordy, I miss nations already.

David Wright
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Why the demographic hate where none is relevant. This effed up proxy war and also the destruction of all that is good in the west has many adherents and a lot are not Boomers. You are better than this bud.
That said, it would be nice if Bolton took a fall down a long flight of stairs.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

David Wright: And you are better than the NAXALT argument. I’m a boomer too, but I do not reflexively take umbrage at the demographic attack just as I do not reflexively take the side of wahmen. The gist of Vizzini’s complaint was, I think, very clear.

David Wright
Member
Reply to  3g4me
1 year ago

I didn’t say I was a boomer.

Member
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

It is completely relevant. There’s a saying in science, “science advances one funeral at a time.” What it means is that older generations and entrenched establishment figures hold science hostage to their biases and often new theories don’t get a decent hearing until a generation passes. This isn’t unique to science. We have the oldest political class in US history, Silents and Boomers. Doddering old septuagenarians and octogenarians who can’t remember what they had for breakfast this morning but are holding onto power with their palsied yet still iron grips. It will take those generations passing before things change. Sure,… Read more »

cg2
cg2
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Boomers die.
something, somthing.
Victory!
Course you’re next

Member
1 year ago

“In the West, the war is an abstract thing. It is a defense of democracy, which is a thing no one bothers to explain. In fact, if you ask what it means you get shouted down as a threat to our democracy.” It’s much the same when you ask questions about Afghanistan. “We went there to establish democracy?” What’s a better expression of the will of the people than the fact that after 20 years of occupation, there was no passion among the people of Afghanistan to defend the US puppet government there? The people democratically demonstrated through their actions… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Afghans, who while devoutly religious did not really care for the Taliban’s draconian policies, had witnessed the degeneracy and sickness of the West, complete with Pride parades in Kabul and the American embassy all rainbowed up, and decided the United States was more dangerous to them and their children. The same elements are at play in the Ukraine. Woke really has caused the Empire to be viewed as a pariah across most of the globe. It may prove its undoing.

Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

“did not really care for the Taliban’s draconian policies”

Assertion requires evidence. They handed the country back over to the Taliban eagerly enough.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

If you can’t discern the difference between “handing over” to the Taliban and being willing to die in the attempt to stop them, then you might be happier on a site with the intellectual rigor of National Review.

Member
Reply to  Bilejones
1 year ago

They had an army far larger and better equipped than the Taliban. They had no will to use it. They did literally “hand over” the country to the Taliban because they didn’t make even a cursory attempt to fight for it. If you won’t fight for what you supposedly want, I question how much you really want it.

I believe actions speak louder than words. The part of the Afghani population that opposed the Taliban, when the rubber hit the road, was insignificant.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

@Vizzini: ” The part of the Afghani population that opposed the Taliban, when the rubber hit the road, was” It wasn’t a matter of support for the Taliban but revulsion against what the West was peddling to them. Again, there were Pride parades, the American embassy bathed in rainbow colors, as another commenter posted George Floyd statues, and feminism indoctrination. The Afghanis were not about to fight to keep that. Misgivings about the Taliban, some tribal, some religious, some cultural/personal, were ignored when the alternative was worse. We have subsequently learned that for months, possibly years, the State Department had… Read more »

manc
manc
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

I noticed, in the wake of the American withdrawal from Afghanistan, a giant George Floyd memorial (kind of a LeBron/Chairman Mao giant painting) in downtown Kabul. Whenever I asked why the average Afghani should give a pigs ass about St. George, they just stood there blinking, almost frightened to think about the question.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  manc
1 year ago

It was like Rome putting a statue of Ceasar in some dusty town in the middle of present day Syria.

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
1 year ago

Perhaps the Russians are so meticulous about following rules because the Putin Regime, like all regimes, has to be concerned about sustaining internal legitimacy. He is asking his people to sacrifice. He has constraints and constituents like all politicians/leaders. And also I think Yo (comment below) is absolutely correct for pointing out the need to maintain some semblance of rule-following for China and India.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

If you’ve been reading Putin’s speeches, this is very much the case. He’s shifted from trying to make nice with the West and talk sense into Russia’s misbehaving little brother, to being very tired of everyone’s bad behavior, and will now correct any bad behavior that impacts Russia directly. He’s said flat out that he no longer believes accord with the West (which he strove to achieve for decades) is possible.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Captain Willard
1 year ago

Putin trained as an attorney. (Yes, really.) He thinks laws mean something, and that agreements should be kept.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

I must admit that is one thing I find confusing as to the obvious expectation as to negotiated settlement from Russia. They invaded precisely because the Minsk agreement was a sham that no one in the Ukraine or the west was going to stick to and just used it in order to build up and arm Ukraine. The original NATO agreements on non-expansion the US already said they had no intention in sticking to when they signed it and the EU and US and Japan have just torn up every international treaty without a second thought, and seized billions in… Read more »

Horace
Horace
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

Putin’s generation knows what it means not to have rule of law. His project is rebuilding his people’s civilization. Cultivating self-sustaining rules-based systems is crucial for establishing the predictability necessary for economic development. Putin’s restraint in international affairs is simply an extension of this.

His adversaries like Blinken and meat-puppet Biden are civilization destroyers and hence see rule of law and its governance as weapons to be used when convenient and irrelevancies to be ignored when inconvenient.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Horace
1 year ago

Interesting point I had not considered.

Yet at some point Putin is going to have to realize he is dealing with mental cases who will never cease escalating once they are on the path.

Force is going to be the only solution, and any part of Ukraine left standing will be a proxy launching ground for the forseeable.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Horace
1 year ago

Bingo. And Putin has said exactly that.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

Several Putin speeches have alluded to Western treaty violations and the sham of the “rules-based order.” I really think Putin didn’t fully grasp how different the West has become from the time he was a station chief in Moscow. Sure, he knew it lied and dissembled and he could see (and probably apprehend) the madness gripping it, but the full extent of the change was unappreciated. He’s got the full measure now. As to trumpton’s point, there is no way Putin will believe a damned thing in any settlement agreement will be honored. He’s probably going to turn the part… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

If you are trained as an attorney, you should know laws only mean what some bankrolled/blackmailed judge says they mean, and agreements are made to be broken.

Xman
Xman
1 year ago

“In a way, it is like this war is being waged between the bureaucracy of the post office and the leadership of the Mafia.”

Same thing could be said about election campaigns between the Republicans and the Democrats. Democrats show up for a street fight with razors, chains, tire irons and Molotovs, while Republicans show up in Boy Scout uniforms with merit badges and secret decoder rings, waving the flag and giving the Scout Salute.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Xman
1 year ago

Also, their Scout troop leader was a pederast Democrat who still hold sway over them.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Xman
1 year ago

“… waving the flag and giving the Scout Salute.”

Unfortunately, that flag is now the rainbow flag…

Member
1 year ago

“Probably the biggest difference between the two sides is how they explain their respective involvement in the war. The Russians see it as a defense of the Russian people and the Russian homeland. The people in the Donbas are Russians and therefore must be defended by Russia.” I’m reminded of US support for Texans in the Texas Revolution. The Mexicans believed, probably correctly, that the US helped foment that revolution to acquire territory, but in popular sentiment, the White Texans were “our people” and needed to be defended. Of course, Crockett, Travis, Sam Houston and the rest are folk heroes,… Read more »

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

And every interview with Ukrainians on the ground in Donbass boils down to “Thank God the Russians finally came.”

usNthem
usNthem
1 year ago

Muh democracy. The US dumpster government has been blabbing about democracy since at least WW1 – “ make the world safe for democracy.” And it doesn’t matter how many people we have to kill or countries we have to wreck to make the world ever so safe.

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
Reply to  usNthem
1 year ago

Probably started with that sanctimonious scumbag Woodrow Wilson. Goes by the name “liberal interventionism.” But by now the rest of the world is weary of the bluster and brag, the strut and the swagger and just wants to be left alone. Something a Pat Buchanan can understand. Something a Donald Trump can understand.

Member
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 year ago

Rather earlier.
“that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth…”

Abraham Lincoln, November 19, 1863, Gettysburg, Pennsylvania

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 year ago

Arshad Ali: Spare some contempt for Teddy Roosevelt. I used to consider him the ‘good’ Roosevelt, but the more I learn about him the more I dislike him. The big stick bit, and his ego and third-party run. He’s a conservatard hero because of his boilerplate on hyphenated Americans, but he was fully on board with flooding America with millions of European peasants, among them many ancestors of today’s neocons.

And I hold him fully responsible for the albatross of Puerto Rico.

Felix Krull
Member
1 year ago

Putin is carefully following the script from Kosovo because that’s the precedent for the last three decades of neocon gangsterism, that’s his tu quoque-defense.

Before Kosovo, you needed a unilateral Security Council resolution to play the good guy, after Kosovo you can just yell “surprise humanitarian aid!” as you send in the bombers.

Before Kosovo, NATO was a defense organisation, now it’s a vehicle for neocon imperialism.

Kosovo was where the old world order broke.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

When I was in China, the embassy bombing was brought up a few times. They really did think the US did it on purpose, and it was a real affront. I was like, “Naaah!” and attributed it to Chinese media misinformation, and also who cares?

Well they did, and now many years later I believe the Chinese.

The Greek
The Greek
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

I’ll never discount laughable incompetence as a possibility. The amazing part is how short American memory is. It’s like a friend accidentally burning down your house while smothered, and then a year later being like, “you’re still mad about that bruh? That was AGES ago.”

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

I wonder if the (reported) recent hit by Russian missiles on the German consulate in Kiev are an echo of history?

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  thezman
1 year ago

The alleged real reason for the Chinese embassy bombing, which I’ve never seen great proof for, was that a lot of the material from the downed F-117 Nighthawk stealth plane was being stored there in preparation for shipment to China.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

I suppose everyone saw piece by Vucic detailing the US trying to pressure Hungary (in Orban’s first term) to invade Serbia as the ground part of the initial attacks?

Which even then he refused to do.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

This cannot be emphasized enough. The referendum in Kosovo was the template for what was done initially in Crimea and now in the other annexed areas. The campaign against Serbia was the moment the Empire became openly expansionist and undeniably evil.

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Yes, it was at least the unmistakeable moment (for those with eyes to see, at least). I took it that way.

wj
wj
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

Kosovo was when I turned whole heartedly against the US foreign policy. It started somewhat in the First Gulf War when it was clear that the conflict was based on a propaganda campaign and that we gave Saddam the green light to invade. But Kosovo had that NWO /neocon/liberal endorsed conflict smell that I couldn’t get past. I fell off the wagon for a bit after 9/11 regarding Afghanistan but almost immediately after the fall of Kabul the neoclowns started their year long campaign for the war. You just can’t unsee things after your eyes are opened and there is… Read more »

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  wj
1 year ago

Well, he did continue with the illegal suoport for the “moderate” rebels, and squatting down on the oil fields in Eastern Syria. That was eye-opening; but it couldn’t hold a candle to his greenlighting the assassination of Iranian General Soleimani. That there was getting hip deep into a war, as the general was ostensibly there to see if things could be resolved.

No points for Trump, sorry.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  JerseyJeffersonian
1 year ago

Trump’s control over the military was so minimal, we can’t deduce what he ordered by looking at what they did. Did he want us in Estonia in 2017 participating in NATO/UK Russian-invasion exercises? Can’t imagine he did.

Offing Soleimani is the one act I think we can be sure Trump at least approved of. He’s not a (modern) ruling class guy. He’s sentimental toward the “sucker” soldier, not the enemy general.

Remember when high-ranking military men *died in wars*? I don’t. But those seem like better days.

WCiv911
WCiv911
1 year ago

The obvious analogy is in the way the regime is waging war against us.

The importation of our replacements, the weaponization of the Justice, Education, Intell & Revenue Departments, violation of election laws, the discrimination against white people, – all done with total disregard of the US Constitution and especially the Bill of Rights.

Soon our replacements will be of sufficient number wherein they won’t need to steal elections anymore.

Member
1 year ago

“At the start, Western governments seized the property of Russian companies and individuals. There was no court case or legal arguments about it. They just did it.”

And the silence from those who like to style themselves as civil libertarians, defenders of human rights, and advocates of limited government, was deafening.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Self-determination for me, but not for thee.

imbroglio
imbroglio
1 year ago

“No one at the end of the Great War imagined the events of the 1930’s.” I believe Keynes foresaw the inferno Europe was to become when he chided the Allies for seeking vengeance at the Versailles conference. Didn’t he warn that within a generation Europe would again erupt in flames? I can’t imagine that this war is being conducted without China’s active or tacit consent which, on the surface, wouldn’t seem to make sense. If our ruling class sees its future as the resident American managers in the coming pan-Asian century and if Russia is going to be part of… Read more »

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
Reply to  imbroglio
1 year ago

Yes. JM Keynes’ “Economic Consequences of the Peace” covers this.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
Reply to  imbroglio
1 year ago

https://www.marshall.econ.cam.ac.uk/archives/economic-consequences-of-the-peace
Keynes short book sold very well and created quite the awareness. But in the end facts and reason will easily be overcome by inertia.

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
1 year ago

Russia losing the meme war is odd, as the USSR was brilliant at winning it, and Putin then was part of it at the end. Lenin and Stalin set up brilliant campaigns through the Comintern and Cominform. Their successors did the same with similar outfits. These efforts highly influenced the intelligentsia in the West, especially in Europe but also in the US. See the Cultural and Scientific Conference for World Peace in New York City in March 1949.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/mp/9460447.0006.201/–shostakovich-and-the-peace-conference?rgn=main;view=fulltext

Member
Reply to  Jack Boniface
1 year ago

They don’t care, because Twitter isn’t real. Twitter commands no battalions. Twitter holds no ground. Twitter supplies no munitions.

Maxda
Maxda
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

This. Back then, the Soviets cared what the west thought and was trying to sell international communism. Today, the Russians have given up on the west and turned inward.

Reziac
Reziac
Reply to  Maxda
1 year ago

Also, the Soviets had a lot of collaborators in Western media and academia, to help goose along their positive public image. And pretty much all of them are still mad because the USSR failed and those upstart Russians showed up.

3g4me
3g4me
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

Reziac: Spot on.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Reziac
1 year ago

The soviet regime ensured the collaborators in their own and the western society.

These people existed as a joint focus outside both national boundaries.

It only looked at the time that it was soviet vs west. In reality it was globo vs Russia and the west.

Fred
Fred
Reply to  Jack Boniface
1 year ago

Russia/USSR is collecting the harvest of what they sowed, in creating and funding the Greenies in the West. They must be laughing in their beer about how much return they got on that investment.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Fred
1 year ago

Maybe not. As Reziac noted above, seven decades of USSR propaganda and (indirectly) as refugees from there who often championed their dogma in one form or another, were highly influential in the West. Would be not be fair to say that, come the collapse of the old USSR, some of those in the West with Marxist leanings may have seen themselves as the ideological heirs of Communism (or at least Socialism)? Fred, I agree that the lunatic Green and other movements that have largely crippled the West did have their roots at least in part in old propaganda. But it’s… Read more »

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
1 year ago

“In a way, it is like this war is being waged between the bureaucracy of the post office and the leadership of the Mafia.”

Yep, we live in a mafia state. Though I think even the Sinaloa Cartel would blanch at some of the things the US regime has done.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 year ago

Irish mob, not Italian mafia. The Italian mafia at least had so.e standards.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  c matt
1 year ago

You might want to read Ron Unz’s analysis on the mob and its ethnic makeup from an actual historical and non-hollywood perspective.

http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/

Makes interesting reading, and points to the organized crime capture of California which then spread out to the Federal realm.

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
Reply to  c matt
1 year ago

You’re right. I’m using the word “mafia” in a loose general sense of any outfit that makes its way in the world through extortion, threats, lies, and violence. I don’t specifically mean the Sicilian Cosa Nostra or the Neapolitan Camorra.

Wkathman
Wkathman
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 year ago

Comparing the U.S. Government to the mafia is outrageously unfair — to the mafia. The Global American Empire is countless orders of magnitude more criminal and evil than the cosa nostra could dream of being.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Wkathman
1 year ago

The US is certainly light years away from being Our Thing.

May its epitaph be, “…and then those upstart Americans showed up.”

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
1 year ago

Errrrrrrrmmmmm… can someone help the slow kid at the back of the class? What’s the footnote about? What do we all know but don’t have to talk about?

Not trying to be a dink… honest question…

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

The part Hitler was interested in, Danzig, was majority ethnically German.

He added the footnote so we didn’t get a “well, ackstually” sperg out in the comments.

David Wright
Member
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

Not sure, maybe the retaking of Danzig which Germans rightfully believed to be theirs?

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

Thanks fellas👍

But that is literally the narrative I got in school. You-Know-Who woke up on the wrong side of the bed one day and just decided to take over the world on a whim. He was SO crazy, he even blamed the poor innocent jews for all the country’s problems. Stupid Germans!!!!

Gawd…if only my shitlib social studies teachers could see me now…😂

Lucius Sulla
Lucius Sulla
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

Don’t forget – the most evilest man ever never used chemical weapons, even as his regime faced extinction.

But US allies like Clemenceau, Joffre, George V, Lloyd George, etc. were more than happy to throw both their enemy troops and their own troops under a cloud of chlorine and mustard gas.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

I had a commie history teacher who had one great trick to make you look at something in a different way. He pretty much could draw freehand on a blackboard a map of the world with any country as its center. He did it most often with the USSR – Greenland and Canada were a long way due north on that one, to show the encirclement of treaties that the US had cobbled together. I assume the same thing is doable on google earth. Absent that the one thing I learned from him was that you should doubt every thing… Read more »

Horace
Horace
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

I don’t remember the title or author (maybe someone else will) but there was a relatively recent German book about the extensive historical efforts by Germany between the world wars to find a diplomatic solution to the Baltic corridor question. So perhaps 1939 was a response to a failure to find a diplomatic solution, not a failure to try to find one. Given incomprehensibly stupid recent Polish behavior, I would not be in the least surprised. Any Poles who object please note that my people are even more incomprehensibly stupid. At least at the end of this process you will… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Glenfilthie
1 year ago

Another part of the accusation was that Britain would go to war if Germany attacked Poland, so Poland did it’s level best to get Germany to attack Poland.

That lends to the meta-eye rolling in regards to the current age (“Really? 80 years on and those two are still pulling the same crap??”). Brings to mind what George Washington warned against: the only way to win a war in Europe is to not get involved in the first place.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
1 year ago

One part that seems clear is the Russians take their bureaucratic rules extremely seriously, while the west is using them more and more as rules to bludgeon your opponents with when it favors you, while spinning definitions and outright ignoring when it does not. The use of terms in Russia are amusing, as I believe the U.S. has not officially declared war since WWII, and I seem to recall some massive military conflicts in the past 80 years. I’m sure the same shenanigans happen in Russia, but you only have so much wiggle room with this until the rules become… Read more »

Arshad Ali
Arshad Ali
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

“The “Rules Based Order” seems to be the ability for Western countries to have troops anywhere they want, and bomb civilian infrastructure to oblivion. The cries of war crimes against Russia are especially delicious for them attacking civilian infrastructure. If what Russia did was a war crime, what does that make U.S. strikes in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Bosnian war, etc. etc?” That’s about the size of it. The Anglo-American order has always been adept at hypocrisy. Anglin had a good piece some days back when he asked what exactly the rules of the “rules-based order” are. That rules-based order seems… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Arshad Ali
1 year ago

I’m of a mind that WWII permanently poisoned the minds of GAE in that regard. How often did we hear that nuking Japan was good for them, why, who knows what dark road that country would have gone down if we didn’t bomb them in to eating tree bark! If some enemy of GAE hasn’t turned in to Japan they suppose that means that they haven’t been bombed enough.

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

Rules are often used to inhibit one’s neighbors i.e. “rules for thee but not for me.” The biggest guy in the room can create and enforce rules, but he by no means must follow them. He’ll use two legs in a one legged race and hold the trophy above his head at the finish line.

The fact that Russia/Putin is so careful to follow the rules probably indicates they aren’t totally free from the yoke of GAE.

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  Reynard
1 year ago

No, I think rather that Russia is pointing out very, very clearly to the rest of the world how even they, nuclear power that they are understand how little that the GAE’s rhetoric constrains them to follow any cognizable “rules-based order”. This points the moral quite well to those who have grown accustomed to being worked over by the neoliberal, neocolonial “rules-based order” that this thiggish system must be resisted, that Russia is doing just that, and as primum inter pares of those so oppressed, they are striking out in a new direction.

Reynard
Reynard
Member
Reply to  JerseyJeffersonian
1 year ago

After seeing the headlines of Russia’s recent attacks, I agree with your comment more than my original one.

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  Reynard
1 year ago

Well, Reynard, your comclusory paragraph was not outright incorrect. The Russians still, along with many other nations, are still constrained to struggle against the GAE, and that means that at minimum they are reactive to the GAE’s assaults. Not with passivity and mere resentment, but now with conscious resolve seeking out alternatives and allies.

Melvin
Melvin
1 year ago

“ The Russians have abandoned the field when it comes to the meme war”

I think they know it’s not worth trying. They would just get banned everywhere and would be relegated to the dissident ghettos on the internet.

Jack Jamison
Jack Jamison
1 year ago

I also take it that there is a longstanding Hatfield/McCoy component here that is common to Slav subgroups and easy for outside meddlers to incite.

Stephen Flemmi
Stephen Flemmi
1 year ago

My wife and I will be playing the role of Boris and Natasha. Do we have any volunteers for Rocky and Bullwinkle?

Also. Happy Columbus Day to all Americans of European Ancestry.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Stephen Flemmi
1 year ago

I jokingly said “Happy Columbus Day” to a colleague this morning. She looked surprised then replied “Happy Genocide Day”. Yeesh. She was a young woman, though.

Glenfilthie
Glenfilthie
Member
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Was she good looking? Should have asked her what she was doing on Dead Nigger Day…

GAH! I have been hanging out at Blab too much…😆

mikey
mikey
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Isn’t Columbus Day when everyone in America pretends that they’re in India?

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  mikey
1 year ago

I can’t participate in that because I’m left-handed.

Yo
Yo
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Russia demonstrating that they’re gonna follow every rule to the letter is not for us Mr. Z. it’s for India China and Brazil. It is to demonstrate to them that what they’re doing is legal and appropriate . The way Russia has conducted themselves, it is much easier for those countries to support Russia without having any doubts.

In addition, Russia’s preparing for the eventual victory and expect the truth to come out and it will be very easy for them to defend their actions to the citizens of the various countries.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  Yo
1 year ago

Truth to come out.

My you are the joker this morning.

Yo
Yo
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

Dude do you purposely try to always be this obtuse? You completely ignored the bigger point of that comment and highlighted a side point.

Everybody knows truth doesn’t mean anything to the US and Great Britain. I’m talking about Croatians, Serbians the Hungarians, the Poles, the Romanians and yes even the Ukrainians. People who currently have doubt to in those
nations will vindicate Russia in the end.

trumpton
trumpton
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

lighten up it was just a bit of leg pulling.

Yo
Yo
Reply to  trumpton
1 year ago

Fair enough bro. One too many coffees to start the day! Lol

mmack
mmack
Reply to  Stephen Flemmi
1 year ago

“Do we have any volunteers for Rocky and Bullwinkle?”

Hey Stephen, watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat! Nothin’ up my sleeve.

Bartleby the Scrivner
Bartleby the Scrivner
Reply to  mmack
1 year ago

First we get moose and squirrel

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Stephen Flemmi
1 year ago

Interestingly, Columbus Day is still a bank holiday, even if the federal government and major equity exchanges have stopped recognizing it.

mmack
mmack
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 year ago

Back when I worked at MegaBank it was “interesting” watching Columbus Day go from a paid vacation day to a “floating” holiday to just “disappear”.

Mike Rowsefalik
Mike Rowsefalik
Reply to  Stephen Flemmi
1 year ago

Eenie meanie chili beanie
The spirits are about to speak!

Bartleby the Scrivner
Bartleby the Scrivner
Reply to  Mike Rowsefalik
1 year ago

Are they friendly spirits?