Welcome To The New Rome

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Imagine you agree to play a game with someone and the first rule of the game is that your opponent sets the rules of the game and he can change the rules whenever he likes for any reason he likes. That would mean that no matter your mastery of the rules, you must always lose the game because your opponent will simply change the rules whenever necessary. You would spend all of your time learning rules that keep changing to put you at a disadvantage.

Similarly, imagine that you decide to build a house on another man’s property, without getting a fixed agreement on your use rights. Since the landowner could at any time tell you to remove your house or even deny you access to it, the focus of your life must be making sure that you are in good standing with the landowner. While technically the house is yours, in reality he sets the rules for how you use it. Like the game example above, your life is about complying with changing rules.

This is the situation for professional Christians. They have agreed to allow their opponents to set the rules of the moral framework. Like the guy building a house on another man’s land, they have built their church on progressive land. The professional Christian must always get permission to use his church. Or like the game example, he must spend his time making sure the tenets of his faith comport with the changing morality of the prevailing the moral framework.

You see it in this rather bizarre post at First Things. There are two main assertions made in the post. One is that racism, and the mythological concept of white supremacy, are the worst things possible. The other point is that it is the duty of Christians to purge those accused of these sins from the ranks of the political Right. To make this point, he piles on a guy named Thomas Achord, a headmaster of a private classical Christian academy, who was accused of blasphemy by the Left.

A feature of professional Christianity is to not only abandon a fellow Christian attacked by the enemies of the faith, but to also rush to the front of the line of bigots taking turns kicking the accused. Here is the execrable Rod Dreher taking some self-righteous shots at Thomas Achord. Like David French, Rod Dreher never misses an opportunity to promote his own virtue. He is who Emerson had in mind when he said, “The more he spoke of his virtue, the faster we counted the spoons.”

Note that Christian mercy never comes up when the Left starts howling for the blood of a Christian accused of violating the progressive faith. Professional Christians are like a pack of wild dogs. As soon as they sense a member of the pack is weak, they pounce on the poor fellow, tearing him to pieces. One cannot help but wonder if this behavior is solely to please the Left. Many of them, like Dreher and French, seem to take pleasure in these sadistic rituals.

Of course, the reason that professional Christians rush out these condemnations whenever one of their own has violated progressive dogma is to let the people holding the other end of the leash know they are a good boy. For professional Christians, what matters is remaining in good standing with the Left. These ritualized condemnations are a public act of piety – progressive piety. It is an affirmation that Christian piety must always rest on the moral foundations of the Left.

Another example of this sort vulgarity is this self-published video from Anglican priest in Nova Scotia Canada. If not for the collar, one would be forgiven for thinking Father Ed Trevors is a weirdo from the grievance studies department. In the description of this tantrum, he makes sure to post his pronouns. One thing missing from his public act of piety is a reference to Scripture. Like all Anglican priests, he is probably unfamiliar with the foundation text of his church.

Putting aside the vulgarity of these displays, the premise of the argument in that First Things article is anything but a Christian argument. Jesus Christ had plenty of chances to state his opinions about racism and white supremacy. He had nothing to say on the matter. His disciples wrote and spoke about the full range of the human dilemma but never bothered to mention anything about racism. Scripture is silent on the issue of race and the moral claims around it.

The reason for this is that these are entirely novel concepts conjured in the last century for purely political reasons. Even those on the winning side of the American Civil War lacked the racism concept. Lincoln famously said, “there is a physical difference between the white and black races that will for ever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality.” He repeated these claims throughout the Civil War to audiences on his side.

Now, there are people who will cherry pick lines from Scripture claiming that Jesus was very much opposed to racism. Never mind that the concept did not exist in the age of Jesus and his language lacked words for the concept. Even if one can make these leaps of logic, the reason for doing so is to make Christian morality match progressive morality, in order to please the people controlling public morality. Those who bothered to read their Bible should be thinking of Matthew 6:24 right now.

In fairness, the professional Christian can argue that Christians must live in this world and that means navigating around secular moral claims. That is clearly not what we are seeing with these people. Instead, their Christianity is just part of the sales pitch they use to convince Christian people to embrace secular morality. Once you accept this new class of sins as far worse than those in your theology, you have subordinated your theology to those creating the new class of sins.

Arguably the most challenging thing is this age is to be a Christian. Your enemies control the commanding heights of Western society. Your friends are always looking for a way to profit from their alleged defense of you. It is a good reminder that all moral frameworks must stand alone. In the case of Christianity, it means the logic of the faith must stand outside of and often opposed to the prevailing orthodoxy. Christianity now finds itself where it started. Welcome to the new Rome.


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Vxxc
Vxxc
1 year ago

I’m Irish ☘️ Catholic, raised Latin Rite Trad Cath …and this is HILARIOUS 😂.
“ Like the guy building a house on another man’s land, they have built their church on (Protestant) land..”

I have no advice to offer , just welcome to the party pal.

https://youtu.be/9OpIbiFmY60

Zaklog the Great
Zaklog the Great
1 year ago

My own thoughts on a very similar question:

https://youtu.be/FLyiNprjHk4

Steve (retired/recovering lawyer)
Steve (retired/recovering lawyer)
1 year ago

Dreher and his ilk are not “professional Christians.” First Things magazine is not a “Christian publication.” These are professional leftists who don the guise of Christianity to create a safe haven out of which they can sally forth and publicly deconstruct actual, Biblical Christianity. They substitute the Current Thing, which is now “racism/anti-racism” for doctrinaire Biblical Christianity. I have remarked rather frequently that “racism” is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, Old Testament or New. Jesus never once mentioned racism or racial politics in His teaching. He was a Jew by lineage, inasmuch as His He and His Father had “chosen”… Read more »

Anson Rhodes
Anson Rhodes
1 year ago

I was going to steer clear of this topic, as I’m an atheist, but I can’t help saying that it’s surprising that there is significant overlap between Christians and conservatives. What the latter want to conserve of course is the earlier state of their civilisation in which things went their way, which was a period unadulterated by other ideologies. The left now dictate the terms of society, as Zed rightly says, and interpret Christian morality their way – essentially that ‘brotherhood’ relates to every human on earth rather than to those of the adjacent group (the latter is how the… Read more »

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Anson Rhodes
1 year ago

The Christians don’t like hearing this, but Christianity operates under the same mind parasite principle as Wokeism: regurgitate elementary school level morality (be nice to people) as if it was their own invention to suck the women in, then use peer pressure to conform to the herd to take over, finally demonize anyone who doesn’t conform as devil-worshippers. The Christians are just salty because the Wokies are doing it better, they have younger people who jumped on all the butt stuff as an extension to the “be nice to people” moralizing. Just like Bill Maher crabbing because he got too… Read more »

Australian Dreamer
Australian Dreamer
1 year ago

They continued rejecting his regulations and his covenant that he had made with their forefathers and his reminders that he had given to warn them, and they kept following worthless idols and became worthless themselves, imitating the nations all around them that Jehovah had commanded them not to imitate. 2 Kings 17:15 From our end ‘becoming just like the world’ is almost the antithesis of comittment to a God who explicetly demands exclusive devotion and the woke/modern world is a jealous mistress. From their end ‘becoming just like them’ is the definition of the salt that has lost its flavour… Read more »

Davidcito
Davidcito
1 year ago

I have a gay buddy out in California who cals me his favorite bigot. I’ll tell them all they’re spreading AIDS, monkey pox, and grooming children to make more of them. Any Christian who supports or massages this movement, well Jesus said “it’d be better if a millstone was tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.”

Maus
Maus
1 year ago

Christ was clearly a segregationist in the sense of recognizing distinctions among people. “Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pears before swine.” (Mt 7:6) And, “It is not good to take the bread of the children, and to cast it to the dogs.” (Mt 15:26)
Whether this is an oblique approbation of racism or nationalism is a matter of interpretation; but it is clearly not a condemnation.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Maus
1 year ago

Is it pears or pearls? Been a while since I read it.

Rando
Rando
1 year ago

The closest thing I recall reading in the Bible regarding racial prejudice was Numbers 12, that time Aaron and Miriam spoke against Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman. Yet God didn’t seem to care about that. Instead he got angry with them for presuming to be on the same level as Moses. Then he gave Miriam leprosy. My interpretation is that what really was motivating them was envy of Moses’ special relationship with God, and the wife was just an excuse.

Bilejones
Member
Reply to  Rando
1 year ago

How soon you clowns forget the philistines. The god of the jews was a barking mad psychopath.

Aspman75
Aspman75
1 year ago

Apostasy among supposed believers is not a new thing in the Church. First century apostates could avoid persecution by offering a pinch of incense to a statue of Caesar. Today’s “Judeo-Christians” would have us literally “bend a knee” to the damnable behavior of George Floyd and the questionable myth of Anne Frank. Jesus complained that the Pharisees were adding their own teachings to Law of Moses. How is this any different when “woke” seminaries add weird new concept of “white fragility” to ancient core doctrines of the Christian faith? Heresy is the term used to describe those who dilute biblical… Read more »

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
1 year ago

Speaking of religions. A religion and the stories it contains encodes a depth of meaning across many dimensions. Its value, like any true work of art, lies in this encoding of truths, contradictions and paradoxes and their associated contexts. This encoding allows a truth in one context that is a falsehood in another to be transmitted quickly. It also encodes the fundamental truths that hold across any context. The other value is in providing moral authority and moral conviction to a people. The all powerful that proceeded all of our ancestors and will succeed all of our posterity gave us… Read more »

Ploppy
Ploppy
1 year ago

All the more reason to go get drunk in the woods for Yule instead. Odin still loves you.

The real Bill
The real Bill
1 year ago

As a rational human being, if I have “a loyalty” to anything, it is first and foremost to “the truth”: to developing an accurate understanding of the world around me. My sole commitment should be— not to some preconceived ideology or dogma which for whatever reason appeals to me— but to discerning what is true. I should believe what I believe— not because my beliefs make me feel good, or because I was taught them as a child, or because everyone else around me believes them, or because believing them leads to results which I consider desirable— but rather, because… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  The real Bill
1 year ago

And for anyone claiming to be a Christian, the evidence for their beliefs can only come from the Bible. That’s because the Bible is the sole source of the Christian narrative. Without the Bible, Christianity would not exist.

So for the first couple hundred years or so, before the canon was decided upon by the Church, Christianity didn’t exist? I think you got it backwards – without Christianity, Scripture would not exist. You needed Christianity to even determine what Scripture is. Otherwise any fool could say any fool thing was “Scripture” – just like the Book of Mormon.

Davidcito
Davidcito
Reply to  c matt
1 year ago

And in the early days, Christianity was a group of eyewitnesses who saw Jesus both before and after his resurrection and were willing to be tortured to death proclaiming His divinity

Stephanos Xytegenios
Stephanos Xytegenios
Reply to  The real Bill
1 year ago

In this moment, the real Bill is euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing, but because he is enlightened by his own intelligence.

Nikolai Vladivostok
Reply to  The real Bill
1 year ago

There’s not really a contradiction in the case of the Anglicans because most of their leadership are atheists. A few are Muslims. This has been the case for decades.
Many other progressive churches are the same.
I’m not picking on the Proddies here; there have also been atheist popes.
I agree with Bill – if you’re going to be religious, go big or go home. This pretend religion we have nowadays is not helping anyone.

AntiDem
AntiDem
1 year ago

There’s a lot to unpack here, especially having to do with the left’s habit of playing bait-and-switch with definitions. If you use the “bait” definition of racism, as given to us all sometime around 1950, approximately: “Hatred of another human being exclusively and entirely for the color of their skin and no other reason whatsoever”, then yes, there probably *is* something un-Christian about that – not to mention irrational and unreasonable. But I don’t know *anybody* who does that, not even the most intense internet racists. People don’t avoid blacks because they have a certain skin tone, but because blacks… Read more »

The real Bill
The real Bill
Reply to  AntiDem
1 year ago

Right: what you’re describing is the difference between “racism”— hating all members of a particular race, or assuming that all members of a particular race are stereotypically alike— versus “race realism”: the fact-based realization that— considered as a group— Blacks are fundamentally different than Whites in certain demonstrable ways. As a race realist, I realize that, although the generalizations about Blacks are demonstrably true— that, considered as a group, Blacks are indeed more impulsive, more violent, and more criminal, than are other racial groups— it’s also true that knowing this doesn’t necessarily tell me anything about the particular Black person… Read more »

btp
Member
Reply to  The real Bill
1 year ago

I’m not going to tolerate your weird capitalizations, dude, and no race realist would. Shog off with that noise.

Citizen of a Silly Country
Citizen of a Silly Country
Reply to  The real Bill
1 year ago

Maybe I’m jaded from all my years reading Steve Sailer, but I find race realism a cop out. “I’m not racist. I’m a race realist” avoids the hard decision: Do you have a people? Pretty much all the commentators at Sailer are race realist but also find any form of white identity or any identity abhorrent. They are above it all, so to speak. They are simply race-aware but colorblind civic nationalists. And like libertarians, they will stab you in the back in a heartbeat. You have to go beyond race realism and decide if you have a people or… Read more »

usNthem
usNthem
Reply to  AntiDem
1 year ago

Well, it is convenient they are color coded.

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  AntiDem
1 year ago

My New World Dictionary of American English Third College Edition (1990s) defines racism as: “(1) a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that claims to find racial difference in character, intelligence, etc. that asserts the superiority of one race over another or others, and that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races; (2) any program or practice that of racial discrimination, segregation, etc. based on such beliefs.” There’s a lot to unpack there. Consider for instance the clause “without scientific support.” Does the author implicitly assert that no such basis exists? Most likely. But what… Read more »

Reziac
Reziac
1 year ago

Deuteronomy 32:8

“When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of man,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the sons of Israel.”

So… God mandated borders between peoples.

Race is just tribe writ large.

JimmyBinOlsen
JimmyBinOlsen
1 year ago

great post, Z. I’d only add that this genteel professor guy in Frist Tings never cites what the de-anonymized Twitterman said that was so objectionable. It is just *endless* throat-clearing and tsk-tsking from a high-born Christian College Teacher afeared of the “tawdry” — and meandering and difficult to concentrate on all the way through; doesn’t Fist Thing pay an editor? — so I had to go to Dreher for the heresy deets. (Which disappointed me in both accuser and accused, e.g. that weird apology about liking Mexican restaurants. Never apologize, kids.) Dreher reminds me more of Helen Lovejoy from “The… Read more »

Armin
Armin
1 year ago

The good thing about heresies is that they have a way of exposing and separating the goats from the sheep. That’s why I see the “woke” stuff as a weird sort of blessing in disguise. It is a harder test than the “prosperity gospel” or universalism, or really anything I’ve seen in my lifetime, for the simple reason that it plays off of a pathology very common in white people, which is white guilt. Many have already faltered, and I assume that many more will. It is to me the litmus test of our time, for Christians and non-Christians alike..… Read more »

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
1 year ago

I don’t know about Catholicism, but one of the biggest obstacles in Protestantism is a large segment of people who already imagine themselves in heaven. “How I came to be saved.” So, even if you believe in scripture, you have no incentive to fight the good fight, because you’re already booked on the last flight out of Saigon, only to heaven instead of LA. I blame this squarely on “the Jesus movement” which is when degenerate hippies were through screwing each other and decided to start nesting and buying waterbeds. They never would have reached for a version of Christianity… Read more »

John Q. Publicke
John Q. Publicke
Reply to  JR Wirth
1 year ago

Well-written! Z has been drawing out some great commentarians lately.

Davidcito
Davidcito
Reply to  JR Wirth
1 year ago

If this is true, then it’s another great contribution of the boomers. “Jesus freaks” I think they were called.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

This book, published in 1970, explains it all. ALL of it. And more besides.

The Politics of Guilt & Pity

https://chalcedon.edu/resources/books/politics-of-guilt-and-pity

Well-written. Clear, readable prose. But nevertheless a demanding read. For serious readers and thinkers only.

miforest
Member
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

“camp of the saints” is pretty clear about the vacuity of our religious leaders too.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  miforest
1 year ago

Yeah, but a copy of Camp will set you back $600 or so. Samizdat isnt cheap on the gray market.

miforest
Member
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
1 year ago

holy crap , I got that one back in the 90’s , may still have it in the bookshelf.

wyatt the warner
wyatt the warner
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

Amen!!
Am just finishing up volume 2 (of 3) of the collection of Rushdoony’s monthly “Chalcedon Reports” (spanning 39 years) and he has much to say about this and other topics frequently discussed here.
Politics of Guilt and Pity is a major eye-opener.
caution: prepare to have your faith challenged.

wyatt

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

You don’t get to be part of the inner-platinum-select coffee clutch in today’s church unless you either adopt a black baby (more authenticity from Africa, like a Lexus vs a Toyota) or end up marrying an earthy black or brown person from some other country and spring it on your unsuspecting yet mostly non-judgmental parents like in “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.” This is especially true for Mormons. You can have five kids, but kid #6 is going to be from Africa.

Range Front Fault
Range Front Fault
Reply to  JR Wirth
1 year ago

Southern Utah is my home, and I nibbled around the edges of my local ward for a half dozen years, did not join the church and backed away for the following reasons: They are a globalist church supporting illegals/open borders by providing ESL and other services/scholarships from tithing to illegals by the church, and by elder and young missionaries. The church donates millions to the refugee resettlement racket. Prior to the coof, the church Deseret Books catalogue first went gay twink (mag cover of gay twink feet in rainbow sox, pushing the book of one of an apostle’s brother who… Read more »

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
1 year ago

Even in places like California, churches pay zero property tax. Expect this to change, and within a few years. The state will develop “criteria” for keeping your exemption. I think we know that that criteria will be. Also, one unique feature about California is that it has a set of missions every 20 miles up the coast. You would expect these churches to be owned by that denomination, but they’re in reality owned by the state as historical monuments. The Catholic church is “allowed” to use them. Expect the next step to be an ultimatum from the state “if you… Read more »

B125
B125
Reply to  JR Wirth
1 year ago

Already started in Canada, churches need to sign a waiver affirming they are “pro choice” get grant money from the government to run summer camps.

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  B125
1 year ago

Why would Canadian churches ask for government money to run summer camps, or for any other reason? Certainly they know strings will be attached to the money. What is wrong with those people?

karl von hungus
karl von hungus
Reply to  JR Wirth
1 year ago

the missions belonged to Spain, not the Catholic church. some of them were privately owned (after Spain) before becoming historic landmarks.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
1 year ago

Leftist “so-called” Christians are no more Christian than the free speech advocates of the 60s actually believed in free speech. Just as the latter viewed free speech as a tool to eventuate Leftist supremacy, Leftist “Christians” view Christianity and its churches as weapons to bring about the absolute triumph of Leftism. Alas, such deceivers control the vast majority of the mainline denominations. Diabolical forces are everywhere in the ascendant, even in the houses of the Lord.

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JR Wirth
JR Wirth
1 year ago

Was I asleep when the so called conservative denominations came out fully opposed to this Republican supported gay marriage bill in Congress? Not a peep. If the preachers were smart and genuine, which nearly all are not, they would say “okay, given that marriage was always a religious institution we recommend boycotting declaring your marriage in a state contract (which only began around the mid 19th Century). Of course the biggest opposition to that would be the women in the congregation who like that extra legal tie down with marriage license. It means they still get to be good Christians… Read more »

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  JR Wirth
1 year ago

Hence the great reluctance of many millennials to marry–it’s betting against the odds with most women….

Older Gentleman
Older Gentleman
Reply to  pyrrhus
1 year ago

You give her a free put option so she can take half or more of your stuff at whim. Even pre-nups get into trouble in the goldenish state.

The Wild Geese Howard
The Wild Geese Howard
Reply to  Older Gentleman
1 year ago

Marriage in the West is so degraded and dangerous for men that there are now manosphere commentators suggesting Western men go knock up a few gals in Latin America or SE Asia, send them a couple hundred a month, and visit them a couple times a year.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 year ago

Ya know what will cure the degeneracy of the West? More degeneracy, plus miscegenation! Retarded boomers and their sex tourism.

B125
B125
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 year ago

Agree. If you really need to, pump and dump white women. You’ll eventually knock a few up desperate chicks in their 30s.

It’s really not that hard, no reason to go to Asia to spawn your bastard kids.

Of course none of those are ideal. But going to a foreign country and making mixed kids to single moms is literally the worst thing you can do, for everyone.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  The Wild Geese Howard
1 year ago

Nobody needs to pump and dump. Here, there, or anywhere. Save that behavior for the more feral types.

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
1 year ago

Listened to the podcast on Friday, had some thoughts on it but couldn’t put it all together. Still can’t, guess it’ll have to simmer a while lol. Has to do with the tranny at the gas station getting me thinking about idealism after railing on materialism for so long. All of these idealists detached from reality yet clinging to stuff even if it kills them. Hard to make sense of what’s actually going on there. To tie it to this post, Jesus is the Word they say, but didn’t he embrace the flesh? Literally took a body, suffered, died, resurrected,… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Paintersforms
1 year ago

“Has to do with the tranny at the gas station…”

I keep forgetting to mention a tranny of sorts who works at a local gas station. I say “of sorts” because it is obviously just a young, morbidly obese woman who decided that LARPing as a guy was easier than losing weight. Many such cases; they were a loser in a nation of losers but now they’re on the vanguard of the revolution just by phoning-it-in the rest of the way.

karl von hungus
karl von hungus
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

how is that different from an old fashioned “dyke”? those kinds have been around forever. didn’t used to get surgery or T injections though…

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  karl von hungus
1 year ago

I’ve known dykes and there was clearly something chemically off there (which is why their claim of “born this way” wasn’t nothing). Nah this is just what would be a normal looking woman in the 6-7 range if she dropped 200, but, much easier to change her name to “Carl” and get a short (but not too short) haircut so that she can leave the door cracked open if a rich blind guy with a weird fetish comes through the place, I guess. A lot of these people were putting low-effort in to the rest of their lives so why… Read more »

Ben the Layabout
Ben the Layabout
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

“Be an elf. Be a Jew. Be a boxing kangaroo. Or beat yourself all black and blue. I don’t care.”
— Alice Cooper 🙂

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  karl von hungus
1 year ago

Just finished listening to a round table Jay Dyer was in, one of them said something to the effect that mutilating the body is part of destroying identity. Maybe reading too much into it, but if we’re all so malleable, why the need to mutilate? Couldn’t you be indifferent to it if it isn’t important? Isn’t that a tacit admission to the contrary? Again, maybe I’m dense, but isn’t it just a bunch of self-loathing people who want to destroy everything and everybody? Are they too cowardly to do it by themselves? All this business about freedom, peace, coming together,… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Paintersforms
1 year ago

Destroy *me* yourself. Or destroy yourself, that works too.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Paintersforms
1 year ago

Rambling duly excused, as requested. But what on earth does it mean??

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

Who knows lol. I don’t have the words right now. Everybody seems to be missing something. I seem to be missing something, too, or else I’d be able to say it. But it’s right there, and we’re all still here. Something’s going to give, and then it’ll make sense. Hopefully I’ll make sense, too.

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  Paintersforms
1 year ago

First, idealism and materialism can mean many things, depending on context. Idealism posits the primacy of the mind as the center of existence, or, it argues for the existence of immaterial ideals. Generally speaking, idealism is a placeholder term to illustrate the opposite of what it is put next to. In the case of materialism, if you mean the existence of physical objects outside the mind, you generally mean physicalism. The meaning of idealism depends on what opposes it. But I feel you misread the Bible with your point. Any Christian who courts suffering is a hypocrite. Jesus’s suffering was… Read more »

Paintersforms
Paintersforms
Reply to  Eloi
1 year ago

By materialism I mean roughly that only those things that can be observed and quantified can be said to exist.

I think life is the cross. The way of all flesh, etc. It doesn’t need to be courted. All junkies avoid pain and suffer for it. Even if they get off on the pain, they’re only substituting one for another. If Jesus lived and suffered, how can we expect more? He didn’t have to come down, but he did. Could’ve fled, but didn’t. Didn’t court suffering for its own sake but because it was his mission.

Stranger in a Strange Land
Stranger in a Strange Land
Reply to  Paintersforms
1 year ago

That’s pretty much what Paul stated in his letter to the church at Philippi – ch. 2:6-8…with the rest of the story v 9 -11

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
1 year ago

To the Christian commenters, would you defend Thomas Achord and if so how?

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

Why? There seems no biblical error in Achord’s assertion—but to be fair, I’ve not read his writings. Seems the same error being made by his detractors is the same error made by folks who continue to cite the D of I: “…all men are created equal…” as to support “equality” of ability and behavior of the races, or worse, that there is no such thing as “race”. That each and every human is endowed with a soul and a possibility of eternal life with God in heaven says nothing about the inequality of men among themselves during their lives upon… Read more »

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

When did it become a crime to criticize jews? Or talk about race reality, and the fact that a small part of our population commits most of the violent crime?

btp
Member
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

I would defend him the way you always defend your guys: deny he did anything wrong at all, accuse the attackers of misdeeds, and refuse to give one damn inch.

What I would not do is attempt to contextualize his remarks, nuance his remarks, minimize his remarks. I don’t care about any of that that. You defend your own guys for the same reason you defend your kids: they are yours.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

My general view of it is that if any man wants to voice his thoughts out loud or in writing, he ought to be prepared to defend them on his own. Pushing against the mob is like pushing against the flow of a river. There are ways to redirect a river, but they don’t involve wading into the middle of it and pushing. The same is true for changing the minds of the mob, it can be done, but it doesn’t involve slipshod antagonism.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Drew
1 year ago

Dude, “red pill” is supposed to connote an awakening from then lies. Do not beleive the lie that it is an actual mob. Its not a mob. It is a couple dozen morons on twitter who live hundreds of miles away and have no connection to the man’s community. This is the “pine poles painted to look like cannon” gag, and those on our side like you keep falling for it

btp
Member
Reply to  Drew
1 year ago

Remind me never to go drinking with you.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

God condones slavery in the pentatuch. To claim that God was in error and sinned is satanic blasphemy.
God has created and sanctioned a heirarchical nature of man. To think you can discard and improve that with equalitarianism is satanic neo-babylonian rebellion against God.
God has commanded us to live within our seperate nations. To do otherwise is to rebel and defy the Word of God.
I pray for their souls, as such blatant rebellion against God calls out for imminent judgment.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

Did he say anything that was not true?

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

If God understood true morality, if He were as moral as we are, He wouldn’t do racist stuff like having a Chosen People…

Chris
Chris
Reply to  Steve
1 year ago

Who are you to judge God? Morality should be subservient to, or at least recognize, biology, in which natural abilities are unevenly distributed. God chose a people (from line of David [“For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honor” Psalm 8:5], who He called His servant) to spread and uphold his Word and to bring a Redeemer into the world. If God knew man needed to be redeemed, why trust that job to just anyone?

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Chris
1 year ago

Once the Redeemer is here all will be redeemed. Doesn’t that imply no more chosen tribe of angels? Doesn’t that incentivize killing all potential redeemers?

My first sentence could be flawed which would make this comment a non-starter.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Chris
1 year ago

Sorry. Neglected the tags…

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
1 year ago

(sarc) tags, that is…

G Lordon Giddy
G Lordon Giddy
1 year ago

James Edwards excellent speech at the fall Counter Currents gathering came to mind as I read this essay. The leaders of the Southern Baptist denomination led an effort to have his pastor expel him for “ racist” beliefs, the pastor refused.
We see both the professional Christians in the Southern Baptists using their power for the modern anti racist cult and we see some individual Christians among them refusing to go along with the cult.
Within those individual pockets of resistance is our foundation among Christian’s.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
1 year ago

The churches need more men like Edward’s pastor. He stood up to the converged leadership of the denomination and got kicked out of the denomination rather than excommunicate him. Every man on our side of the great divide should hold him in the highest esteem. We need more like him.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

The Covid era demonstrated how many men of the cloth are actually strong enough to buck the system. Sadly, the results were not promising, but at least everyone’s been flushed out and the magnitude of the task at hand should be clear.

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  G Lordon Giddy
1 year ago

Ask these leaders to expel a member who had an abortion or was an unrepentant sodomite and watch them wither. They only act tough against easy targets.

TomA
TomA
1 year ago

Today’s post describes another societal pathology that afflicts us and is getting worse with each passing day. It draws attention to the malice and detrimental nature of this pathology in hopes that alerting others will push back against the Crazy and hopefully render it less impactful. But that kind of critique technique has been going on for ages now and the problem keeps getting worse, so eventually you have to ask yourself . . . How impactful is it as a remedy for the Crazy? Perhaps it would be more useful to educate and train others in effective ways to… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
1 year ago

People going to church to virtue signal is hardly a new thing. The church being corrupted by the regime isn’t a new thing either. The new thing is the rise of mass media, which coincides with the decline in church attendance, which allows the regime to corrupt the church with a broader array of new “virtues” in a shorter amount of time. It’s a shame they didn’t build more picturesque churches in America, because they won’t even function as good museums like they do in Europe now. Which could provide a good picture of where white American christianity will be… Read more »

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
1 year ago

There won’t be a cognizable United States in twenty years. There really isn’t one now. Religious Hispanics probably will have a free hand to carve out an enclave, likely in the Southwest.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

As far as I’m concerned they can have it. Especially if they promise to take LA.

miforest
Member
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

when I look at what white people are doing, I may apply for asylum there

Captain Willard
Captain Willard
1 year ago

Christianity isn’t a business, but Churches are businesses and are best analyzed in this framework. The only thriving churches I see these days are organized around ethnicity (Eastern Orthodox churches) and self-help economic cooperative models (the whole Joel Osteen, Hillsong abundance stuff). Everything else is swirling down the drain because there is no real organizing principle, or business “mission statement” if you will, behind the effort. Once Jesus becomes a feature, as opposed to the Product, of the business, it’s really at a teleological dead end. So it’s really just glorified self-help group therapy. Despite his business model’s success, I’ve… Read more »

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Captain Willard
1 year ago

If Joel Osteen and “prosperity” Christianity are the only forms of Christianity we can keep going, Christianity needs to be thrown down the well of history. These things are cheap parodies of Christianity.

I never really understood the pull of “progressive” Christianity. If progressivism is what you like, you can get it anywhere and in much better forms.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Tars Tarkas
1 year ago

“I never really understood the pull of “progressive” Christianity.”

It’s just an ersatz religion. It’s a LOT easier to adhere to than real Christianity is, and that’s most of the appeal. The rest of the appeal is that absolutely ZERO humility if required, and adherents can live in a glass house and still throw rocks with abandon. Lotsa fun for them. No cost whatsoever. No sacrifices required.

It’s a replacement religion. An easy one. And adherents get plenty of positive attention. As I said, no humility required.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

“It’s a replacement religion. An easy one. And adherents get plenty of positive attention. As I said, no humility required.” Wokeism both inside and outside the Church is the replacement religion. Given humility is a foreign concept now, you are absolutely right on that point. Let’s break down the Woke religion, shall we? Demons: Whites, non-woke markets Saints: Trannies, Blacks, Homosexuals, most Hispanics and Asians God: The State Liturgies are repetition of the Current Thing, which when there is not a new one reverts to racism by default. Rituals include child genital mutilation, child sacrifice, rioting, looting, and kissing blacks’s… Read more »

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Other Rituals (maybe cathecisms? maybe sacraments?) are: Pronouns; “Land Acknowledgements”; descriptions of appearance for the blind; having a sign language signer for each person in the meeting;

Deadly Sins: white privilege; whiteness; non-submission/repentance; masculinity

karl von hungus
karl von hungus
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

i’d say it’s more of a nostalgia trip; a kind of cargo cult ritual.

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  Captain Willard
1 year ago

I’ve listened to Joel Osteen for an hour and him not mention anything. I just sit there amazed that his huge audience can sit there in rapt attention while this guy just rattles off a list of empty anecdotes. If these people were asked the following day what he spoke about they wouldn’t be able to remember.

Tars Tarkas
Tars Tarkas
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

This is one of the reasons he is a fake Christian. He couldn’t even bring himself to say anyone would ever go to hell.

In a better age, he’d be a self-help guru. Worthless.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

I can’t agree or disagree, as I don’t know whether Osteen is a true Christian, a fraud or simply a motivational speaker. But something I heard him say years ago has really stuck with me: If you stay in faith, nothing bad happens to you – it happens for you.

btp
Member
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

Here’s a story about a person who did something nice and, do you know what? Something good happened to him. There is another person who might be more like you, and this person was having difficulty, but he kept working and things turned out ok. Then, there was an old person who needed help from a young person and, well, the young person helped the old person. Both persons were made better off.

Good stuff, man. Christ really is King.

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
Reply to  Captain Willard
1 year ago

This is an insightful comment. Perhaps what really happened is that as new age-ism gained momentum in the 70s and 80s, it became the new religion. Its core tenets are the tenets of self-help. Self help is really self indulgence. Perhaps Tony Robbins is the most powerful religious leader of our age. In the meantime, underground, a lot of the people broken and/or disillusioned by modernity are turning to psychedelics administered as parts of healing ceremonies. Those too have a sanctified people – any indigenous people – except the indigenous of Europe. It is sad to see these broken people.… Read more »

Enoch Cade
Enoch Cade
1 year ago

Rod Dreher. Definitely an odd one. I know I sound like a broken record on the subject of Confederate monuments, but he was a huge supporter of taking them all down because it hurt the feels of the 13%. Sometimes I think that Rod gets it, but then he retreats into the CivNat “vision of MLK” bullshit. A ridiculous little man; he’s primarily interested in flogging his own books.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Enoch Cade
1 year ago

The 13% don’t care about white-people world at all. Dreher isn’t very perceptive, but he came from Louisiana. He knows.

He wants the statues smashed because they’re *us*—losers. His case against Trump during the ’16 campaign was that Trump is forever a “loser” because his casino sucked. Trump is obligated now to cede symbolic leadership of the GOP to “winner” DeSantis. Etc.

The one consistent theme in Dreher’s wok is that losers are duty-bound to disappear from public life—from the sight of winners.

He’s an exemplary Christian.

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
Reply to  Enoch Cade
1 year ago

Yep. Every article. As I said in my, (insert href) book The Benedict Option (close href tag) … …

They can almost all be summed up as: “The world order is Satanic. I don’t trust in my God enough to stand and fight it. So, buy my book that will demoralize you into joining me as we run to the far edges and scratch out a life in our caves.”

Pathetic!

karl von hungus
karl von hungus
1 year ago

modern churches seem perfect for normies, just as people like dreher are. at their core, normies are fearful cowardly creatures.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
1 year ago

I have to apologize to the congregation for the noise.

I can’t keep from giggling whenever I hear the news say “she”, and “her”; I burst out laughing when I heard this gem: “That just shows you what kind of a woman she is.”

The bearded lady, Brett Griner.
His real name in high school; so bad at basketball (!) he signed up for the girl’s team in his sophomore year. LOL!

John Q. Publicke
John Q. Publicke
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 year ago

Wait, are you just kidding? I have read zero on the druggie so I don’t know.

Member
1 year ago

I hadn’t heard of Thomas Achord until this post, but from the Dreher article, it seems like Achord didn’t do himself any favors, rushing to lie, disavow and grovel. When are people going to say, “Yeah, I said it, and I’m not ashamed! No regrets! Everything I said is true!”? I’m reminded of the poor high school football player who lost his scholarship to University of Florida a few weeks ago because a video clip emerged of him singing along with a rap song that included “nigger” or “nigga.” He, too, gave the requisite groveling apology, not that it did… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Oh, thank God for Vizzini.

Amen, absolutely, it’s that brokeback groveling and reasonableness and niceyness and crap.

I used to do that too, because I was never shown how to handle aggressors- posture, stand straight, bristle, look ’em in the eye and do NOT look away, lean in or step towards, never apologise- make them back down, etc. “You sweatin’ me, dude?”

They’ll fold. They’re just testing you.
Mean it, as if you don’t give a sh*t come what may, and they’ll respect you.

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
1 year ago

Rod Dreher. Most of his writings are just long quotes of letters from readers. He is very prone to condemn the Satanists. At the same time, he promotes the Benedict Option, which is essentially surrendering and hiding out in a cave. Yesterday I was spending some time doing some training for a project that requires some deep knowledge of machine learning. After looking for some courses I figured I would try one by a guy who is integral to the operations at OpenAI. Take a look at them. They have a moral framework about trust and safety and their statement… Read more »

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  PeriheliusLux
1 year ago

The thing to keep in mind is these people are weak and are only able to swing their weight around because they are anointed high priests in the Cult of Democracy (or whatever we want to call it) which is also weak but is able to swing way above it’s weight since it inherited an incredible amount of strength from its legacy betters (which isn’t nothing). Point being, the day the regime is unable to extend it’s full weight and support in protecting their priests will be the day we no longer see “Charles Fryes”.

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

I agree they are weak on their own. One thing we must be cognizant of is “our” regime may already be, Israel or China’s regime. In that case, these priests have free reign. In any case, it is essential that our people be as or more technically capable than these people. I do think that the promotion of and participation in drug culture is going to cause a lot of problems and perhaps that is a weakness that permits our people the ability to kick them to the curb. Tobin seems like a solid guy. Why he permits this degenerate… Read more »

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  PeriheliusLux
1 year ago

“We will not have a seat at the table if our people do not command the skills and the technology.”

ALL of this stuff–ALL of it–including the gov’t and the WEF and everything else–ALL of it–depends 1000% on a *universal* and *unfailing* supply of electricity, something that we don’t have and are not going to have.

Look out the window. Do it right now.

See those power lines and poles?

PeriheliusLux
PeriheliusLux
Reply to  The Infant Phenomenon
1 year ago

We have a massive abundance of energy sources that can produce electricity. We have 600-1000 years of coal. We have 1500 years of uranium. With Thorium powered LMS reactors we will have 7x the lifetime of our solar system’s worth (about 30 billion years). There is plenty of electricity. If we can decriminalize nuclear energy we will likely make energy generation on a scale where each home will generate its own – and cars and planes … … That won’t happen in our lifetime, but if we can have a ritual hanging of Schwab, Harari and the rest of the… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  PeriheliusLux
1 year ago

I may be wrong, but perhaps his point was the fragility of the delivery system, not the raw supply.

Iron Maiden
Iron Maiden
Reply to  PeriheliusLux
1 year ago

An entire generation of people for whom negative emotion is the most stressful thing they can imagine. A striking contrast from Christianity (and many other religious and ethical systems, Stoicism comes to mind) where emotions are to be managed and borne, not fled from. There is a deeper vision of what constitutes human flourishing here and it merits careful consideration as it informs the emphasis on avoiding social exclusion, avoiding psychological stress and negative emotions, and avoiding anything remotely coded as ‘suffering’. Christians of the pre-modern age were trained to bear suffering (in part because it was impossible to avoid)… Read more »

Melissa
Melissa
1 year ago

Hadn’t heard about Thomas Achord or the events surrounding his firing. It’s unfortunate. I wish my kids could’ve attended his courses, he sounds like he was a great instructor/headmaster. There has been much discussion of building and organizing outside the system. The religion of progressivism attempts to make that impossible as their tentacles are far reaching. I don’t care about twitter, netflix, amazon, etc. Our lives are significantly better without those things. The fact that Christianity has been under attack and so much of it seems to be faltering is by far the most troubling aspect of the collapse. The… Read more »

DeplorableGranny
DeplorableGranny
Reply to  Melissa
1 year ago

Our family also feels abandoned by the church and those that were supposed to guide us. We read Revelations chapter 3 last night and it really hit home that we as individuals need to stay in our faith even when the church and their leaders haven’t. Our family does bible study and fellowship together on Sundays. I feel closer to God more than I ever have since we chose this route during the plandemic. We put our faith in God, not government.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Melissa
1 year ago

“The saddest part are those forgotten, maligned, poor and working class whites in Appalachia/the South who are struggling with unemployment, skyrocketing inflation, family members who are addicted to opioids, etc.” It seems counter-intuitive, but those are the types who may survive. The weakest among them are being culled, but those who survive the fire will be forged and stronger. What these populations already have experienced is about to become widespread into the upper reaches of society. I can see the people we call “bugmen” decimated by conditions considerably better than those the White working class have suffered. The GAE cares… Read more »

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Melissa
1 year ago

“The fact that Christianity has been under attack and so much of it seems to be faltering is by far the most troubling aspect of the collapse.”

Not surprising, given that Christ Himself told us that this would happen.

Everything will be all right.

bruce g charlton
1 year ago

What is that I hear?

The satisfying sound of a hammer, hitting nails square on their heads!

Good work – I’ve circulated this to some fellow-Christians.

Mcleod
Mcleod
1 year ago

The old man has always said that if someone tells you they’re a “Good Christian”™ to make sure your wallet is still where you put it.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Contemporary Christians pretty well reflect conservatives in that they easily bend to the will of the State. All through history people have betrayed anything to survive and benefit, be it spiritual, political, familial. We see all of that now. The Russian Orthodox Church under communism is the best analogy to American Christianity under Western totalitarianism. It sacrificed every foundational belief to serve the State. American Christinaity has followed suit. Not a single Russian Orthodox Church in North America would hold funeral services for Alexsander Kerensky when he passed. While Kerensky remained a Christian and did not personally destroy the Orthodox… Read more »

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

How true. One need only look at the church under the worse times of communism. Examples of Poland (western church) and Russia (eastern church). Decades of official repression and yet, the church survived, even grew in areas. The visit to Poland of John Paul shook the Polish government to its core as the people in the millions assembled for his mass.

Stephanos Xytegenios
Stephanos Xytegenios
Reply to  Jack Dobson
1 year ago

Rod Dreher struck me as a quintessential “cafeteria Christian”, given he jumped around from Protestant to Catholic to Orthodox. Even while he mouthed platitudes about how he was home in Orthodoxy, it was fairly obvious to everyone his heart still belonged to Rome. It wouldn’t surprise me, given how his marriage fell apart, that he will blame the Orthodox and jump ship for the next new thing in order to assuage his eternally tormented psyche.

usNthem
usNthem
1 year ago

It’s getting to the point where you wonder why the pro Christians just don’t officially change the object of their worship from God & Christ to the holy, sacred negro. Because make no mistake, that’s what this BS is all about.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  usNthem
1 year ago

Wouldn’t that just make them garden variety Jews? 🙂

David Wright
Member
1 year ago

Someone close to me who’s mind has been seriously broken over the last few years accused me of the sin of racism. How can I, a Christian, reconcile that with my racism. Mind boggling since my supposed racism is the same as Steve Sailers, the sin of noticing. Even then I hardly mention racial topics in conversation.

It’s what they hear constantly in their interactions in the woke world. Adapt to them and throw your family and friends under the bus. Women seem to do easily while keeping their status and employment secure explains people like French and Dreher.

Shrinking Violet
Shrinking Violet
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

Sadly, this is all true. The protestant church I used to belong to is entirely woke. The entire clergy is LGBT. They delivered sermons on racism, feminism, even global warming (!) but not a single sermon about sin. And everybody—clergy, congregation, hierarchy—was into masks and social distancing, etc., in a big way, really enthusiastic. So I’m looking for an alternative. The Catholic churches are mostly Novus Ordo, and complicit in a bunch of bad stuff. The Orthodox churches are traditionalist and anti-woke, but have a very alien feel. Home-churching was okay for a while but began to feel like the… Read more »

Robert
Robert
Reply to  Shrinking Violet
1 year ago

Weird androgynous and vaguely asexual people have always had an attraction to jobs in religious clergy. At least in Western Christianity.

Or at least in the big formal Christian institutions.

Endy
Endy
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

In the same boat. Traditional protestant denominations have doctrine eaten up with liberalism (and mainly attended by older folks), any other nominally doctrinally sound evangelical church are about the military and Israel and lately joining the anti-white program. We home churched for a while. Yep all kinds of odd philosophies that didn’t work mesh. And orthodox is so odd to me too.

But another issue altogether is that no one really cares about anyone else. Everyone wants to talk, wants respect and admiration, wants attention. No one gives.

Its tough to be a Christian, yep…

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Endy
1 year ago

Some of the largest Protestant denominations are schismatic: Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, so forth. The Episcopalians have fought tooth and nail against this so some of their congregations have reverted to Anglicanism, not that the Church of England isn’t a joke, either. The successful breakaways may face government persecution since there is little difference between Western totalitarianism and the Soviet version, but those churches will reflect traditional faith. Although not a believer, I see these divisions as a positive thing since it shows a substantial slice of the population rejects the Regime’s dogma.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Endy
1 year ago

“If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”

“But be of good cheer: I have overcome the world.”

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

“Weird androgynous and vaguely asexual people have always had an attraction to jobs in religious clergy. At least in Western Christianity.”

Given the Catholic commitment to a lifetime of abstinence, that is exactly who I would expect to answer the calling. I thank them for doing what I could not, while I am also aware of those who fail.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Shrinking Violet
1 year ago

Seems like the Orthodox churches, and those ethnically inclined, like Korean Christian, are the only ones that will survive…But ultimately, fundamental American christianity will revive at the local and family level, I think….

Mow Noname
Mow Noname
Reply to  Shrinking Violet
1 year ago

Writing as a very mushy Roman Catholic, try and find a Catholic Church that offers at least one Mass in Latin.

When all of the diocesan churches closed, they stayed open. The Latin is originally very odd, but these churches will have an English/ Latin missel.

Icing on the cake: no masks and Communion on the tongue. Easily the most counter-cultural thing you can do these days.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Mow Noname
1 year ago

Same here:
https://eldona.org/

Communion (Real Presence) on the tongue.

No masks.

Didn’t shut down to flatten the curve or any of the rest of it.

Growing nicely.

miforest
Member
Reply to  Shrinking Violet
1 year ago

look into the SPXX churches if you want the old latin mass.
they seem conservative in every way

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Shrinking Violet
1 year ago

Here ya go:
https://eldona.org/

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

David, I’m curious to hear your reply, if you care to share it.

I understand why woke Christianity is so powerful, due to all the “we’re all God’s children” and “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Woke Christianity seems to flow naturally from these universalist tenants. However, my old-school Christian acquaintances are quick to remind me that Christianity was not woke until very recently. That’s true.

Compsci
Compsci
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

Again, what does the above say wrt race, and the differences among the races here on earth—except that all have hope of an afterlife?

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Compsci
1 year ago

Thanks Compsci. It sounds like you’re saying that Christianity should only be concerned with “that all have hope of an afterlife.”

Are their Biblical quotes that command Christians to extend their concerns beyond “that all have hope of an afterlife?”

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

“Are their Biblical quotes that command Christians to extend their concerns beyond ‘that all have hope of an afterlife?’ ”

Yes. Many.

“While we have time, let us do good until all men, but especially to them that are of the household of faith.” To cite only one.

But I think you’ve misunderstood what Compsci meant.

David Wright
Member
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

Keep in mind this was from my daughter who is still has anxiety issues and starting hanging with average wokester parents. I went from hero to irrelevant old man in one weekend. Just told her that racial facts scare her and punishing me won’t fix that. The world is against us and we lose many of our loved ones on this battlefield. Saddens me.

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

Women will always attach themselves to whatever appears to be the most popular opinion. They’re literally getting their tits chopped off because “non-binary” is the popular thing now.

DLS
DLS
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

Wait until she gets mugged. Hopefully it won’t take that for her to acknowledge reality. I recall a similar disagreement with my father decades ago. He was a psychologist who administered placement tests for an inner-city school system. I, being a young and naive blank-slater, presented him with the latest National Review type theory on school choice. His response was that the only way to improve black public education was to magically start with smarter students. At the time I thought this was mildly racist, but after being exposed to Derbyshire’s “The Talk”, came to see how it was simply… Read more »

JerseyJeffersonian
JerseyJeffersonian
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

Jesus brought a sword, and minced no words telling us about that.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

“Woke Christianity” does not exist. Wokeness is a new and totally different religion.

” … you are all one in Christ Jesus.” The operative phrase. Those not in Christ are not in Christ and there fore are not “one” with those who are in Christ.

There is no such thing as “woke” Christianity. It simply does not exist. It never will b/c it can’t.

c matt
c matt
Reply to  LineInTheSand
1 year ago

Not sure where the “we are all God’s children” quote is in Scripture. We are all God’s creations just as everything else is, but children only comes from adoption through baptism.

As for the “no Jew or Greek” thing, often glossed over is the “in Christ”. Parallel to “equality before the law” it does not erase biological differences in ability, aptitude, etc. It just means every bloke has the same shot at salvation just as (in theory) he should have before a court.

Evil Sandmich
Evil Sandmich
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

A religion that views standing up for your people and you family as a sin is a death-cult not a religion. I’m not a very knowledgeable Christian but I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t think that people should be more concerned with the fate of some stranger that hates them than that of their own kids, for example.

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

You may be correct, but it’s a common mistake made by many apparently serious Christians. Dickens wrote about “telescopic philanthropy” in “Bleak House.”

“Dickens contrasts Mr. Jarndyce with Mrs. Pardiggle and Mrs. Jellyby whose philanthropy is directed at the Tockahoopo Indians and tribes of Borrioboola-Gha in Africa. Dickens styles these ladies’ work as “telescopic philanthropy” because the objects of their philanthropy are so remote.”

https://www.philanthropydaily.com/telescopic-philanthropy-and-our-fellow-citizens/

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

Some of the harshest words in all Scripture are those of St Paul, who said that the man who does not provide for his own family is “worse than an unbeliever.”

May be the THE harshest words in Scripture.

Also, ignoring the plain meaning of the word “neighbor” is one of the many tricks in the bag of those who hate us. My neighbor is somebody in MY LIFE, not some stranger on the other side of the world.

“Neighbor” means “neighbor.”

It’s all *clearly* explained in this book:

https://chalcedon.edu/resources/books/politics-of-guilt-and-pity

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Evil Sandmich
1 year ago

Mathew 15:26 says do not take the food of your children and throw it to the dogs. Your responsibility to discern those most important to you via blood and provide begins and is primarily within the home, and spreads out there from according to your gifts and abilities.

Wciv911
Wciv911
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

“The woke mind virus is either defeated or nothing else matters.”

-Elon Musk

Maniac
Maniac
1 year ago

A Left-leaning Facebook friend posted this today:

https://www.npr.org/2022/12/10/1141010320/as-attendance-dips-churches-change-to-stay-relevant-for-a-new-wave-of-worshipper?fbclid=IwAR35mtIryRyo1rO8wflHGzpQA3QiIQzSgjI4Erb6v8AjpezIJlfssDJacLM

Nope. More like: “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Maniac
1 year ago

I’ll never understand the obstinacy that modern churches have for their leftist experiments. Churches began emptying out at precisely the time they indulged in secular fads, yet they cannot and will not reverse course and provide a true alternative to The Message that modern life preaches, and preaches far more effectively through its media of television and computer.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  KGB
1 year ago

The modern fads are derived directly from protestant heresies. Of course the protestants embraced the fads, they created them.

Maxda
Maxda
1 year ago

Having sat in and / or watched a fair number of services at different churches over the past year, it’s been very interesting to see where various churches fall on this issue.
Our old church was more enthusiastic about obeying the government covid mandates than anything in the bible. Also completely silent on the abortion ruling. Others, including the one we attend now, celebrated the progress towards making it harder to kill inconvenient children while ignoring the covid bs.

Member
Reply to  Maxda
1 year ago

Just this Sunday, our pastor said during the sermon that the day our church welcomed homosexuals or trans people as normal and acceptable would be the day he was out. There were enthusiastic “Amens.” So that’s where we fall. Our church is not about conforming to the world.

PASARAN
PASARAN
1 year ago

Who’s the worst : Rob Dreher or Greg Johnson ?

Hard choice ))

La-Z-Man
La-Z-Man
Reply to  PASARAN
1 year ago

What’s your issue with Greg Johnson?

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
1 year ago

In the first few years of wading into the waters of crimethink, it became more and more apparent that even in nominally traditional circles, at least half of my fellow Christians would cut off all ties with me if a progressive mob went after me. even more. most would immediately post on social media how they knew me, condemn me, and express how they never would have guessed I was such a terrible person, probably ending it by expressing how they’re praying for my repentance. Forget the little part in the Bible about rebuking a fellow Church goer privately. These… Read more »

DLS
DLS
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

I have known Jews and atheists who would frequently blaspheme Christ, but would rend garments at the mere hint of race realism.

Felix Krull
Member
1 year ago

Jesus Christ had plenty of chances to state his opinions about racism and white supremacy.

Or about slavery.

Also, professional Christians are the main drivers of injecting mass diversity into heartland America, bussing them in and setting them up in rentals for a few weeks, before they drop the load on the tax payer and move on to the next batch.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

I bet Jesus would approve of how humanely slave farms were run in the Old South.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

He was a member of a Tribe that excelled/excels at chattel slavery, so that’s possible. Blacks tend to be dumber than a post but they are starting to realize this, which explains some of the ADL incompetence dealing with the Kanye question.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

Wasn’t one of the benefits and mercies of Christianity, especially in the ancient world, was the abolition of slavery though?

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Christianity, not Jesus. Big difference. Men abolished slavery, not God.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

And look where that got us. Like where we are? Do you like the fikki fikki game they play with your Dutch women? Enjoying the pending starvation as they shutter your agricultural sector because of cow farts? Thank an abolitionist.

Member
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

The Bible says slaves should be obedient to their masters.

I’m not interested in bringing back slavery — I wouldn’t want to have to ride herd over a bunch of black slaves and be responsible for their every need. But it clearly wasn’t something God prioritized very highly. He’s more concerned about your eternal soul than your Earthly condition of servitude.

Bartleby the Scrivner
Bartleby the Scrivner
Reply to  Vizzini
1 year ago

Vizzini

Funny you should say that, cause whitey is responsible for blacks every need now.
Food
Medical card
Money(SF just expanded their free money for pregnant Sheboons to 4 county’s)
Skewl
Sail foams
Rent

Did I miss anything?

Sans the riding herd over of course….

Member
Reply to  Bartleby the Scrivner
1 year ago

Oh, I’m quite aware of the irony. I’m a landlord in an “urban” neighborhood (bad schools!).

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Bartleby the Scrivner
1 year ago

You forgot the beaners. I see them loading up heaping shopping carts at the grocery store and paying with EBT so they can breed and feed their little pendejitos.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

“Wasn’t one of the benefits and mercies of Christianity, especially in the ancient world, was the abolition of slavery though?” No, indeed. Where did you get that idea? The New Testament and the Apostolic Constitutions and the Apostolic Tradition make it abundantly clear that slavery was perfectly normal for those people who are natural-born slaves, i.e., those who have a slave mentality. Contemporary “thought” is unable to imagine any alternative to slavery except freedom, but in fact there are numerous other possible states and stations of life. But that just illustrates the sorry state of contemporary “thought,” and it has… Read more »

RealityRules
RealityRules
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

Yes. They get the government cash and the migrants get dumped in, “the community.” I don’t think they even want them as a new flock, just the cash. The white Christian church leaders involved in this racket are as despicable of scoundrels as the black, “community leaders”, in this regard. The “Conservative”, politicians know this is happening and do nothing about it. As for the other comments here, I am close to a church goer. A once staunch conservative they are now the most broken of wokesters. I wondered where it came from, and then I saw the books all… Read more »

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  RealityRules
1 year ago

Michelle Malkin wrote an excellent book on this. One of the ways they make money is to proffer illegal immigrants cash loans at cutthroat interest, while the state (of Minnesota, I think) underwrites the debt. Naked usury, in other words.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  RealityRules
1 year ago

“I wondered where it came from, and then I saw the books all came from their church. It is sad to see a person be that broken and lost.”

Roger that. And the New Testament has a very precise term for organizations such as the one you mention: “synagogues of Satan.”

Your unfortunate friend does not belong to a church or to The Church, but rather to one of the many synagogues of Satan.

His ultimate fate will show that.

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

Jesus wasn’t anti-white.

Jesus valued loyalty according to the scriptures. That meant loyalty to real people, not abstract ideas in the sky. The issue of personal betrayal is very big in the New Testament.

Jesus wouldn’t approve of race-traitors.

Felix Krull
Member
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

He didn’t. Once, Jesus meets a Samarian woman who begs Jesus to heal her sick child. One of the disciples tell the woman to get lost because you don’t feed the dogs when the masters are starving. The woman replies that even during times of famine, you throw a morsel to the dog from time to time.

Jesus thinks that’s a good answer and heals her child. He doesn’t say “Samarians are people too, we’re all the same, salvation is for everyone!”

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Felix Krull
1 year ago

He did say salvation is for everyone. What He didn’t say is that race is not real, or that there are no biological or cultural differences among people or peoples. Race realism and salvation through Christ are not mutually exclusive.

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

A “race-traitor” is a modern invention used by a cult just like “anti-Semite” is.

Robert
Robert
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

What else do you call a white person who specifically betrays his own race?

It may be a modern issue because it didn’t come up as much in the past. That is, even the opportunity to betray your own race was rare.

But the concept of treason itself is not new. You know Dante reserved the lowest rung in hell for traitors.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Oops, sorry, I read “race-traitor” as “racist”. You bet, racist is an invented concept, brought to you by the same criminal subculture that gave us anti-sem. Traitor? Sellout? Darn tootin’. Again, I submit much of the propaganda as the Book evolved was conditioning to push lightskins to submit to masters of a darker hue. When we first hired them, they were a much, much darker hue; typically, they then brought their wild brothers in to do a little Nordstrom’s shopping, began attacking each other, and sacked Mesopotamia. The point is, our submission to the miscegenated hybrids of big nose tribe… Read more »

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

It’s okay to be white. These are temporal demographic issues though. My highest loyalty is not to my race. Faith, family, then folk as a man said. And besides, Jesus wasn’t European. People in the Bible are not named Joe Schmidt. Or even Sean O’Connell. Christianity is not compatible with white purity spiraling.

That said, go ahead, secure the existence of yadda yadda. I like diversity which means I want white people of all kinds to flourish. But in heaven, we’re all mixed-race.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

I disagree. Jesus was White. The archetype of Jesus is White. Even if you discount the political provenance of the historical man, Nazarenes were a different ethnicity, dialect, and region from Judea. That’s why He spoke of the J’s as a separate group. He, and likely his disciples, were probably majority descent from the white Hellenic tribes that dominated the Mideast long before the bedouin half-breeds had much influence. Stop worshipping them. They don’t have a Heaven, remember? They are to only inherit this world- because their God cannot exist anywhere else. Please stop confusing their earthbound god with the… Read more »

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 year ago

“Nazarenes were a different ethnicity, dialect, and region from Judea. That’s why He spoke of the J’s as a separate group.” Roger that. That is why “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Also, the Galilee and the Galileans were a conquered province and people who had been forcibly converted to Judaism. They were *not* the Jews of the Old Testament. Moreover, it is not generally understood that Christianity if an older religion than Judaism b/c Judaism ceased to exist in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of the Temple sacrifices. No temple sacrifices =… Read more »

btp
Member
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Why do you think we’re mixed race in Heaven? You are familiar with that little Christian dogma of the resurrection of the body, right? The central claim of the whole thing, yeah?

My Comment
My Comment
1 year ago

Rod Dreher is a depressing case study of where white society is at 2022. He converted to the Orthodox Church, is a big admirer of Orban to the extent he moved to Hungary but still clings to the leftist morality framework. I guess that just shows how deeply it is woven into American and Christian culture.

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  My Comment
1 year ago

Dreher’s role in the situation with Achord was pretty terrible. His kids went to Achord’s school, although I think they have all graduated now, and his now ex-wife worked there for years. He really helped amplify the allegations against Achord and his ex-wife sanctimoniously resigned from the school in disgust when accusations Achord was a badthinker went public. I thought it was interesting that she was still working there. I guess in the Dreher family moral framework, getting divorced without Biblical grounds still allows you to be a Classical Christian school employee in good standing, but have a preference for… Read more »

Chet Rollins
Chet Rollins
Reply to  Barnard
1 year ago

I long for the world where his wife would be fired for being divorced before Achord is fired for mean tweets. It wasn’t too long ago when we had policies like this.

Some might consider forcing a woman to remain married to Dreher to be abusive and complete overkill, and I have some sympathy for that point of view, but we need standards.

My Comment
My Comment
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

” long for the world where his wife would be fired for being divorced before Achord is fired for mean tweets.”

In other words you long for the not too distant times when Christianity tried to follow the Bible not the gynocracy.

Dreher reader
Dreher reader
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

I actually listen to some of Dreher’s podcasts. Lately, the guy has sounded almost suicidal, very moody and depressed. As bad as before Dante saved him. A few years ago, he wrote a book about how Dante saved his life from undiagnosed illness (a claim itself that is more than a bit nuts). Reading in between the lines, it sounds psychosomatic, all characteristic of extreme major depressive disorder. Considering he could barely get out of bed on good days, I’m sure it made him deeply unpleasant to deal with and a horrible family man. So yes, the guy is bit… Read more »

c matt
c matt
Reply to  Dreher reader
1 year ago

I thought the Orthodox allowed one Marital Mulligan?

RasQball
RasQball
Reply to  Dreher reader
1 year ago

I had that Dreher character pegged as a “Flake of the First Order” years ago.
Years ago…

Stephanos Xytegenios
Stephanos Xytegenios
Reply to  Dreher reader
1 year ago

Has there been any person Rod Dreher had a personal relationship that he hasn’t horribly stabbed in the back in years? I remember he also burned his bridges with the Latins over the church scandel, so I am counting down the days before he does the same with us Orthodox.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Chet Rollins
1 year ago

Didn’t read the article, so is this just a small case of public backstabbing so somebody gets their job? That, or simply didn’t get along, eliminated competition, had their panties in a wad, or whatever.

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  Alzaebo
1 year ago

On the surface, it is just cuck virtue signaling but there may be some personal scores being settled. I wouldn’t discount the pastor was banging Dreher’s wife.

Götterdamn-it-all
Götterdamn-it-all
Reply to  My Comment
1 year ago

He’s a Southern cuck trying to prove that he isn’t racist.

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  Götterdamn-it-all
1 year ago

Oh fudge, the worst.
Southern Woke.

My gods, its like Hindi rap. Bollywood gone Ghetto.
Your eyes will bleed.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  My Comment
1 year ago

Orban understands what RD doesn’t; modernity is cancer to any and all parallel institutions, including the church. Maybe even especially the church, because it’s the only parallel institution that still has much pull left. Hungary could do a lot worse than banning American leftists like RD from entering the country, much less move there. There is some precedent; Israel takes a very dim view of Christians who visit explicitly to proselytize. (Judeo-Christian pap is for American rubes and lobbyists, not Israeli citizens) In any case: your religion is there to reform YOU, not the other way around. Only a modern… Read more »

Alzaebo
Alzaebo
Reply to  ProZNoV
1 year ago

“In any case: your religion is there to reform YOU, not the other way around.”

That has got to be one of the finest statements I’ve ever read. Thank you!

Major Hoople
Major Hoople
Member
Reply to  ProZNoV
1 year ago

In New America, you don’t reform church, church reforms you.

Götterdamn-it-all
Götterdamn-it-all
1 year ago

Modernity and Christianity cannot coexist. One must prevail.

Robert
Robert
Reply to  Götterdamn-it-all
1 year ago

But by modernity, do you mean all our technology and legal systems? Because that’s not going away.

Seems to me that Christianity should accept the scientific fact of genetics and heredity. It should also accept evolutionary psychology, which isn’t all that different from what our great-grandparents knew about human nature.

ProZNoV
ProZNoV
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

Our modern “legal systems” aren’t anything to brag about.

Technology is very much a false god.

Both coexisted with Christianity for a very long time. For most of it, the Church was supreme and no one thought it was either odd or a negative.

Member
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

There are almost no churches out there that dispute the fact of genetics and heredity — unless you’re talking about some of the corrupt leftist churches that believe in the blank slate like the ruling elite purports to.

Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Mysteerious Rooshian Vooman
Reply to  Robert
1 year ago

“But by modernity, do you mean all our technology and legal systems? Because that’s not going away.”

Oh, yes, it is! Just you wait, ‘Enry ‘Iggins! Just you wait!

Dr. Mabuse
Dr. Mabuse
1 year ago

I don’t think the professional Christians, the ones who have a platform for making noise, are at all anomalous. The last 2 years have shown me that the average people in the pews are perfectly happy with this sort of subservience. When their leaders scurried to show what good and faithful servants they were – of the State – the people trotted happily along behind. In many cases the churches went beyond the actual legal requirements for Covid control, just to show how zealous they were, and how the government had absolutely no reason to fear that they’d be some… Read more »

Marko
Marko
Reply to  Dr. Mabuse
1 year ago

I agree. Today’s churches in the West will operate like Christian churches in China. They will be allowed to operate so long as they don’t dare elevate the God over Mammon.

You can see that churches – particularly mega-churches, for obvious reasons – are being subverted like sportsball was. In ten years, nobody will even notice the END RACISM banners behind the pulpit.

Robert
Robert
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

Putting your highest loyalty to some institution, whether a church or the military, is anti-white.

Loyalty to your people has to come first.

The Infant Phenomenon
The Infant Phenomenon
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

If everything were linear, you’d be right. But they aren’t, so you aren’t. Everything is cyclical, and the USA is going down the drain with the GAE, after which things will be very different b/c they will return to a former state. That’s what cyclical means. The Powers that Be will no longer be the PTB. We have only to outlast them, and we will.

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Marko
1 year ago

End racism? Thats so 2021. The banner in 10 years will be “END PEDOPHOBIA!!!”

David Wright
Member
Reply to  Dr. Mabuse
1 year ago

As a Catholic I can see even in my own family the few that attended church not willing to return anymore. No surprise given the cowardice displayed during covid. Now it’s just old people.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  David Wright
1 year ago

The nice thing about the pandemic is that it revealed that there were a lot of people who went to church out of habit rather than belief. Declining church numbers are akin to an out of shape fighter getting back into fighting shape; the loss is beneficial not detrimental, as fighting without carrying dead weight is easier and better. The real turning point will be when Christians use violence to push back against the evils of the state. There will be no room for squishy moderates when that happens.

B125
B125
Reply to  Drew
1 year ago

Sounds like a cope, no offense.

You’ll be talking about how the church is “purifying” itself right down to it’s last member at which point it will no longer exist.

Perkunas
Perkunas
Reply to  B125
1 year ago

His fighter analogy doesn’t work because the churches aren’t even trying to get back into shape.

The “weight loss” is more akin to a fat old man losing the pounds as he wastes away from cancer

Jack Dobson
Jack Dobson
Reply to  B125
1 year ago

It may be a cope for him, but certainly the point about the positive aspect of Covid stands. That one event exposed how illusory all our rights are and how many vipers are in our midst, including those previously trusted. His church may be empty as you suggest, but it may be richly deserved.

Drew
Drew
Reply to  B125
1 year ago

You’ve missed the point if you think it’s a cope. Squishy moderates who always advocate for soft surrender (what they call compromise or moderation) are simply a liability. Losing moderates in times of conflict is a good thing because it makes the fight easier. It’s difficult to put up a fight if half the people on your nominal side put all their energy into trying to prevent you from fighting (and thus prevent you from winning).

Barnard
Barnard
Reply to  Dr. Mabuse
1 year ago

It depends on the church, there has been even more of a resorting between churches based on beliefs. The mainline churches are dying quickly. All of them have put out projections showing they will cease to exist within 30-40 years, which is almost certainly longer than what will really happen. Other churches are going strong.