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Because we live in an age of over-specialization, we do no get a lot of discussion about the interplay of politics and war making. We get people focused on the political dimension of the Ukraine war and we have people discussing the facts on the ground, but very little about how the two sides interact. It is a lot like how the economy is discussed in isolation from politics.
Usually, the road to understanding what is happening in something like the Ukraine war passes through both domains. There is a political aspect that impacts the war making side, but the war shapes the politics. The Great War is a perfect example of how these two forces interacted to create a disaster. A century on and we are seeing something similar unfold in this war between Moscow and Washington.
For example, one reason we are in this long war of attrition is the Russians misread their own domestic politics and the international politics. If a few years ago they looked at the developing crisis on their border and if they understood the people behind it a bit better and had a better read on their internal politics, they probably would have prepared for a massive, overwhelming response.
Instead, the Russians were concerned about doing anything that would cause the West to retaliate and escalate. This is something Putin discussed last year when Washington launched the massive economic assault. To his credit, he admitted that they misread things and were not as prepared as they should have been for what Washington would do in response to Moscow’s concerns about Ukraine.
Fast forward a year and we see how politics are shaping the battlefield in a way that harms the Ukrainians. Zelensky, with the help of the Kagan cult, has created a narrative of the Ukrainians holding out against the Russian onslaught. They are the defenders of the wall between democracy and barbarism. Western political leaders have no choice but to support Ukraine on moral grounds.
This has created a dynamic in which the Ukrainians are constrained in what they can do on the battlefield in order to maintain this political narrative. For example, they cannot do as the Russians do and abandon land in order to preserve resources. it would not be much of a wall if they were always in retreat. Instead, they have to keep throwing precious resources into places like Bakhmut.
What we keep seeing is terrible military decisions preceding or coinciding with big political events in the West. The refusal to abandon Soledar preceded Zelensky coming to Washington for his big speech. It took weeks for Ukraine to acknowledge the reality on the ground. Ukraine had to maintain appearances until the political events were finished, despite the loss of men and material.
We are seeing a similar process take place in Bakhmut. The Kagan cult wants the West to commit modern battle tanks. This will necessitate other assets, maybe even airpower, so Ukraine is being forced to hold Bakhmut. Meanwhile, the Russians pound away at the defenders who have little chance to fight back. Credible reports suggest Ukraine in losing a thousand men a day in the futile defense of Bakhmut.
Of course, the bigger political problem is the narrative the Kagan cult has created around Ukraine prevents talking to the Russians. Zelensky is not allowed to speak with the Russians or even mention the idea. Victoria Nuland is going around telling Western audiences that the plan is to drive out the Russians, force regime change in Moscow and then break up Russia.
Now, the Kagan cult hates Slavic people so they are happy to see millions of Ukrainians die in their war on the Russian people. You can see, however, that by letting this bloodthirsty death cult shape the politics, it is limiting what the military planners can do on the ground in Ukraine. They have no choice but to keep feeding men and machine into the Russian meatgrinder setup along the front.
The Russians seem to have sorted this, which is why we are not seeing the big offensive everyone was predicting. They see how the political dynamic is limiting what the Ukrainians can do on the ground. At some point, the politics will force the Ukrainians to launch a counter-attack to maintain the narrative. The Russians are probably preparing to take advantage of that to destroy more of the Ukrainian army.
There we see another area where politics is shaping the war. Russia is now operating as if this is a global conflict with the West. A big bloody offensive that could unleash unknown forces is bad for that global political process. No one can say how the West will react to a sudden collapse of the Ukrainian army. The prudent approach is to grind it down slowly and carefully to avoid new problems.
Even so, what is emerging is a gap between the political narrative and reality on the ground, which will become impossible to ignore this summer. Like the Athenians learning about the Sicilian catastrophe, many in Western capitals will start to understand what is really happening in Ukraine. This will require a new political narrative to explain what went wrong.
Interestingly, this is similar to what happened after the Great War. The people on both sides felt betrayed by their leaders. What was the point of the war? What was the point of the massive sacrifices endured by both sides? The winners could at least claim it was to preserve democracy, thank you Woodrow Wilson. The losers, however, were left to figure it out on their own and a new narrative eventually emerged.
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Not only is the interplay of politics and war ignored, but the interplay of personell with both as well. By making people like Nuland, Baerbock and pudgy boy Selensky the public faces of this conflict, the elites have chosen visages that appeal to their own effiminate, narcissistic selves, not so much to the general public and not at all to the young males that they need in order to give their threats against Russia teeth.
A recent poll in my country (Germany) had a whopping 5% of the population stating that they would fight in a war with weapon in hand. Deduct from this women, loudmouthes, the old & infirm as well as vax damaged individuals,
and you are not left with much. The picture isn’t much different in other NATO countries (with the exception of Poland and the Balts).
So even if NATO decided to go “all in” with land forces, it could provide a couple of ten thousand career soldiers as a first wave, but little if anyhing after that.
The reason – in my humble view – is that most men perceive the Ukraine war as a gay social media phenomenon. Perhaps, lots of men would be emotionally invested if NATO had installed a lantern jawed Jock Willinck type as First Warlord of Kiev, promising to smite the Mongols against all odds. As it is, with the uninspiring public faces of this thing, few are emotionally invested. Assuming increasing escalation, everybody I know will just got to a Doctor, get certifed as a manic depressive and be done with the war. And that includes even the blue pilled types.
Turns out, if you want to fool all the people all the time, you have to wear the appropiate mask. To incite war fever, the scowling faces of middle aged, hysterical HR women and the mug of the pudgy actor in the t shirt just won’t cut it.
I like the way you think Jan.
Thanks – I hope it’s not wishful thinking, but I have not met any guy between 20 and 50 who wants to play Ostfront. How about the US?
Judging by the recruitment numbers I think a lot of young American men are not all in for more war either.
China just issued position papers on the West in general and the Ukraine war. They have stated that they agree with the Russian position on the war and they agree that the West started the conflict. They also state that they believe the West is belligerent toward China.
So even if the neocons were right about being able to drive the Russians out of Ukraine, (fat chance), it is quite obvious that China will never allow that. China has more industrial power that the EU and the U.S. combined.
I don’t perceive much independent agency to Zelensky. At this point, he seems to be like the Washington Post – a hypothetically independent entity that actually only says and does what the CIA/WEF/GAE tells them to. He is literally an actor hired to play a mouthpiece role, because he speaks more eloquently and with the appearance of more moral authority than Vicky Nuland does.
It’s sort of like when left wing activist lawyers sue their pals among the lib fed bureaucrats, who don’t defend the case and then, gosh, hate to do this, I guess we just have to donate millions to leftist NGOs in settlement.
Z you are correct.
Quibble; This comparison to WW1 is unjust to WW1. Really.
With the exception of the Battle of the Frontiers at the opening- where the French pursued ataque au outrance (attack to excess) and made bayonet charges right at Germans who went into tactical defense and killed 300K in 2-3 weeks most of WW1 made a lot more *Horrible* sense on the Battlefield than what Ukraine does.
Ukraine never saw an encirclement they didn’t like, for reasons Z laid out,
Well played! Were I a younger man…
Nothing I have seen so far anywhere has led me to see the Ukraine war as anything other than a disastrously miscalculated war of choice, launched by a dictator who thought that he could cover himself in glory by “regathering the Russian lands”; and, worse, who though that it would be easy. There was no immediate military threat from Ukraine, and nothing short of an immediate threat could have justified an invasion. In fact, I do not believe there was any long term threat either. What, you think there was a chance that if Ukraine joined NATO the pansies in Brussels might use it as a jumping off point for a brutal tank and artillery drive to Moscow? Are you really that delusional? (And hey, guess what? Even if Putin wins the war he’s still going to have NATO on his borders!)
What really baffles me though is all the cheerleading here for Russia. This war is just white people killing white people. Nothing good is ever going to come of it. I just want it to stop. So please, a serious question: if you see anything good about the war, any justification, anything positive that might come out of it, I would greatly appreciate it if you would try to explain. I’ll be happy to argue my side, if Z lets me.
Where to begin. If China entered into an alliance with Canada or Mexico to place nukes on the US border aimed at our cities (<5 minutes flying time), do you really think that DC would just sit back and say "no problem, go right ahead." So please, dispense with the hypocrisy. Putin has been trying for 2 decades to get the US to honor its pledge not keep pushing NATO up to the Russian border, but the USA\NATO has lied and lied and lied; and pushed and pushed and pushed. Here's a clue. That's a poor way to conduct international diplomacy. Russia bent over backwards trying to get the US to the negotiating table and offered many opportunities to resolve the Ukraine issue peacefully. Biden/Zelensky gave him the finger, and both admitted that they intended to install nukes on Russia's border aimed at Moscow. And that's in addition to operating dozens of bioweapons labs in Ukraine with the explicit purpose of offensive use against Russia. And don't forget that Ukraine has been firing artillery into the ethnic Russian Donbass since 2014 and killed more 15,000 of its citizens plus 3 times that number grievously wounded. You need to crawl out from under that rock and open your eyes.
And this is to say nothing of the cultural war AINO, with the Ukraine as a staging ground, is waging against Russia. AINO’s plan was clearly to turn the Ukraine into a carbon copy of itself, with all its baleful multiculturalism, anti-white racism, and deification of perversity, and under the fig leaf of so-called “liberal democracy.” Having established the Ukraine as a model Western state on Russia’s Slavic doorstep, AINO would then have a perfect emblem with which to further subvert Russia’s culture. Ergo, if “liberal democracy” works for your Ukrainian brethren in this historic homeland of the Russian people, it will work for you, too.
At root, AINO brooks no dissent, domestically or globally. And that means it will reengineer every nation on the planet into a clone of itself, or it will annihilate the world in the attempt. Every nation that has misgivings about AINO’s society would do well to hoist in this reality. Putin gets it. House honkies like the schlub above, don’t.
If the West was waging a cultural war against Russia then Russia needed to wage cultural war right back. Putin made noises about doing this, and in fact I was rooting for him to build Russia into the sort of healthy traditional society that could provide a rebuke to the decadent West, but even if he was sincere he wasn’t going about it very effectively. In any case, a military invasion doesn’t help. Even if Putin conquered all of Ukraine, all he would get would be 44 million new “Russians” who hated his guts. Not helpful, given that the West would still be right there outside his borders.
Also, I’m having trouble squaring “multiculturalism, anti-white racism, and deification of perversity” with Putin’s insistence that Ukraine is being run by “Nazis”.
Also, AINO?
The Ukronazi thing is just for the dum dums in Russia to get on board. Same as how Bush’s Islamo-fascism here was meant to get all the rednecks hooting and thumping their chests.
Also, the Russians never did cultural war very well. Northern Europeans are introverts and you don’t convince people of anything with subtle acerbic remarks. If you want to push cultural change you need a loudmouthed histrionic Jew squealing about some social ill to get all the college kiddies out with their little signs.
Russia, unlike AINO (America in Name Only), is not culturally imperialistic. It’s ideology–to the extent it has one–is Russian nationalism rooted in Orthodox Christianity. This is not something Russia can export, even if it wanted to, for obvious reasons.
As for the utility of a military invasion, I do not believe Russia seeks to conquer all of the Ukraine. In the event of a Russian victory, eastern Ukraine will be absorbed into Russia and western Ukraine will be set up as a client state whose government, while technically independent, will be oriented toward Moscow rather than Washington. Now failing the collapse of NATO, there will always be a NATO presence on Russia’s border, but the smaller that presence the better.
Regarding the Nazi rhetoric, my guess is Putin was attempting to sow doubt among Leftists in the West that they were backing the morally right horse. That ploy failed. However, that error doesn’t make Russia any less traditional.
Russia not culturally imperialistic?!? Russia’s entire history, right from the beginning, has been one of aggressive imperialistic expansion!!! Instead of expanding west into the Americas, or south into Africa (worse idea ever!), they expanded east into Asia. I mean, they ended up fighting wars with China and Japan, and were only kept out of India by the British. (OK, and maybe the Afgannis).
But by “cultural war” I didn’t mean Russia should try to convert the West to Orthodox Christianity, I simply meant it should defend itself from the baleful cultural influences coming out of the West, and strive to subvert those influences by turning itself into a shining example of what a healthy white European civilization could look like, an example that sane people in the West could admire, and seek to emulate in a Western context. Putin’s war has been hugely counterproductive in this regard. Nobody in the West admires Russia today! (Present company excepted of course. But still, numerically, that’s nobody).
Ostei
With regards to “Nazi rhetoric”, when the hostilities broke out, there were several videos (on YouTube no less), where young Uke fighters,(from the 2014 attacks on the Donbas), gleefully explained the Nazi emblems on their uniforms. One guy sheepishly grinned at the camera saying,”not like Hitler, not a Hitler Nazi.”
I’m not sure if they’re still up. I’m surprised I was able to see it due to “the narrative”.
Thanks for the response, but I have to say these all strike me as incredibly lame rationalizations. Let me go through them:
Suppose Mexico said it wanted to enter into an alliance with China, and China said “uh sure, maybe, in five or ten years, get back to us when you have your act together and we’ll consider it”. Do you think that would justify an immediate invasion of Mexico? Because that’s basically the situation we are talking about with Ukraine and NATO. But even if we were talking missiles on the border today, so what? If NATO wanted to launch a strike against Russia it already has Poland, Romania, and the Baltic nations. Latvia is almost as close to Moscow as Ukraine, and with nuclear missiles the extra 3 minutes isn’t going to make all that much difference. Ukraine would be more useful for launching a ground offensive of Russia, but again, that’s just stupid. In fact the idea that the West would risk the enormous possible downside of any sort of military adventure against the territory of huge, nuclear armed Russia is just stupid, stupid, stupid.
It’s true that people like Kissinger and Mearsheimer had been warning against NATO expansion for years, but their concern was that Russia might do something reckless. It turns out they were right, but how does that justify the invasion? The situation in the Donbass doesn’t justify it either. I don’t care about the Russian takeover of Crimea, because the people there seemed to be OK with it, but in the Donbass there were strong feelings on both sides, and it was irresponsible for Russia to get involved. Was it really all that wrong for the Ukrainian government to try to hold on to what had been part of its territory for 25 years?
The biolabs thing is even dumber. Biolabs can be anywhere, so what advantage would there be in placing a bunch of them in Ukraine? I’m far more inclined to believe the standard explanation that these were just mundane research facilities, and Putin is just talking shit about them.
Really, why would I believe any of Putin’s justifications when a much simpler explanation for his actions is available: Like many, many other rulers throughout history, Putin made a land grab because he thought it was to his advantage and he thought he could get away with it. Sometime this works out and sometimes it doesn’t, and so far this looks like one of the cases where it doesn’t.
(And I’m still wondering what positive thing can possibly come out of all this, as I see nothing but downside for everyone involved. Can anyone enlighten me?)
So who made you God Emperor of the Universe? Why is it that you get to declare that US/NATO was planning to wait a few years before installing nukes on Russia’s border? Did they let you in on the secret? Or is it possible that that is just a lame interpretation on your part? And do you really expect Russia to take your word for it and place their nation at risk because JEB has the inside info on when the nukes are going to be installed. My God, your ego is off the charts. Ditto for “your” interpretation that the bioweapons labs were benign. They captured the labs in the first weeks of the SMO and have submitted documentation to the UN proving the weaponization of these labs. You need to get your head out of Biden’s ass and look at the facts rather than emote your “feelings.”
No one cares what you think. You’re entitled to your opinions like everyone else, but forgive me if I don’t buy into the BS that you’re uniquely “informed”. Go peddle this nonsense at Buzzfeed or the Politico. No sale here.
Did you miss the part where I explained why it wouldn’t really matter if they had nukes on the border today?
You explained nothing. If China started installing nuclear missiles at the Canadian border, the US would do to Canada what Russia is doing to Ukraine in a heartbeat. And those overly-polite Canucks would be dying just like Ukrainian cannon fodder. And don’t forget that the US has a launch-first policy with respect to nukes, so if those Canucks started getting uppity and fought back, its tactical nukes on the loose baby. Your hypocrisy is actually bigger than your ego.
JEB on February 26, 2023 at 12:55 pm:
In fact the idea that the West would risk the enormous possible downside of any sort of military adventure against the territory of huge, nuclear armed Russia is just stupid, stupid, stupid.
Yes, it would be. But the Great American Empire and a few of its running dogs announce almost every day further plans to send Ukraine more missile launchers, tanks and fighter-bomber jets. That hardly suggests any intention of the West to let things cool down. Russia needs to pre-emptively counter its adversary being stupid, stupid, stupid.
Congratulations on a concise, well-informed summary of the key points.
The above directed to TomA, way up-thread. Clarifying because when the back-and-forth gets stretched, it may be hard to tell.
“This war is just white people killing white people. Nothing good is ever going to come of it.”
Agreed 100 percent. That out of the way, do you think the United States sees the massacres of Whites as positive or negative? Serious question.
I honestly don’t believe that anyone in the US government sees the Ukraine war as a positive thing. I think you always need to fight the impulse to believe that your enemies are knowingly evil. The consequences of their actions may, in your view (and mine), be evil, but the people themselves are almost always decent enough people who believe they are fighting the good fight. I get really pissed off by people like Ann Coulter who say things like “liberals hate America”, because I know a lot of liberals, and I don’t think that accurately represents anything that is going on in their heads. (Progressives on the other hand, some of them, OK, yeah…)
You are on the wrong fucking board. This statement alone is so bafflingly naive I don’t even know where to begin. Try cnn.com or thedailybeast.com you will be in good company.
There are plenty of people in the (((US Government))) that are knowingly evil and are fulfilling a generational blood libel *right now* by grinding Slavs against each other in a meatgrinder. The fact that you even acknowledged this but then go complete retard one post later tells me I’m dealing with a midwit at best. All done here.
No, I am on the right board. I doubt CNN or The Daily Beast would welcome a contributor who told them the problem isn’t white people, it’s black people. But I also think a lot of the ideas that are expressed here are wrong headed and counterproductive, and I see no reason not to say so. What is the purpose of this board anyway? Is it to sharpen your thinking through debate, or is it to cry on the shoulders of people who think exactly the way you do?
I have some real estate if you are interested.
Is it a very large bridge near Brooklyn, NY?
Serious question for JEB. Rhetorical question for the rest of us.
Let’s not forget the not-insignificant fact that the Obama administration actually helped overthrow an elected government in Ukraine in 2014 — at the same time they were shilling for Ukrainian membership in NATO. And two years later U.S. intelligence was falsely accusing Russia of rigging the election against Hillary.
You think the nutjobs in Washington wouldn’t try to overthrow the Russian government too? Washington is clearly an existential threat to Russia. If I were a Russian leader I would absolutely show the U.S. that if they push any further they are going to have a fight on their hands.
I cannot blame the Russians for what they are doing at all. That doesn’t make me pro-Russian, it makes me against the Kagan-Nuland-Blinken clique in Washington. I only wish that the Russians had made quicker work of things to put a bit of fear into the idiots in Washington. Unfortunately they haven’t.
I think Washington would love to overthrow the Russian government! I just don’t believe they would ever risk any sort of military strike on Russia itself, whether staged from Ukraine or elsewhere, to do it, because the downside if things went wrong would just be too great. The means the West uses to try to subvert Russia are non-military, and require non-military responses. I think Putin probably understood this perfectly well, and nevertheless used the non-existent military threat from NATO to justify an invasion he wanted to do anyway for other reasons.
All these Canada analogies, while relevant, miss the larger point:
Not only does the USA have no interest in Ukraine, the GAE doesn’t either. They are risking everything, for nothing.
Russia does have an interest in Ukraine. This doesn’t make them the “good” guy anymore than it makes GAE the “bad” guy. Because those labels belong to a Hollywood world view for retards. But it does make GAE the irrational actor here.
Now that being said, it’s rational now for GAE to not want to back down. The irrational part was using Ukraine to provoke Russia in the first place.
When was it exactly the us became the bad guys? was there a tipping point, if so what or when and why. I suppose it doesn’t matter except possibly the next empire avoiding going off the rails in a similar way.
My wife & I listened to the translations of both putins and Xes speeches. Neither are wrong.
America is a bully, however we doubt China & Russia will be any better.
Stuck on a crazy train. We don’t see a way out there isn’t going to be any kind victory only victims . We should have taken up arms by now.
Sping-
The US has been trending downward for a long time, but I think the Clinton regime was where things really went off the rails.
Clinton was awarded the WH for services rendered facilitating all the black ops in Mena, AR.
That was also the regime where we saw US miltiary secrets and technology sold to China, the final big push to offshore all US manufacturing to China, and the push to add China to the WTO to facilitate their exports to the US.
On the home front, these efforts helped WalMart spend the 90s really hollowing out rural, small-town America. We also saw regulations rolled back to facilitate the rise of enormous mass-media conglomerate and permit excessive speculation by investment banks and other unsavory financial firms.
Then you have all the other stuff that happened, like Whitewater, the trail of bodies, the groundwork being laid for the Clinton Foundation, which led to all manner of additional fraud and looting operations in the future.
All of these shenanigans are what really opened the door for all manner of foreign bad actors to really begin exerting malign influence over the USG and the nation itself.
I agree with everything in your comment and I do think that the Clinton years is probably the beginning of the internal rot getting going.
But from a military standpoint, I think it goes back much further. Not only do you have the smaller wars and WW2 and WW1, but you have the civil war which turned America into an empire.
I would also say the 1990s. The Cold War kept the Ruling Elite relatively sane. The big “selling point” of the Reagan Era was the US represented freedom, liberty, no Commissar over your shoulder micromanaging every thing about your life. That the US meant both freedom in personal liberty and general prosperity.
Now you have earnest, pinch faced young female scolds looking like an uglier Emma Watson shrieking that freedom is fascism, that freedom of speech is a threat to “our democracy” and that you will own nothing, have no privacy, live in a pod, eat the bugs, use the pronouns. It is a very very female driven thing. Male despots usually gather up big armies and use them to threaten neighbors or make war upon domestic rivals. The US is the passive-aggressive instigator of “lets you and him fight, I will go home with the winner.”
I would not put the blame on only the Clintons, they were a product of the times, including the people. Women of that age adore Hillary, as they see her as a role model: marry some up and comer and claim his accomplishments as yours without much risk.
I used to argue, “peace is over, if you want it. All we are asking is give War a chance,” somewhat mockingly in the hope that some real conflict would bring about a realistic appraisal of the situation and the anti White guy purge would lessen as we would be needed. So far that bet has proved spectacularly wrong and the elites seem to be Thelma and Louise if they can’t get what they want. If we settle into a decades long war with Russia and China expect the war on White guys to only intensify.
The empire has been false flagging its way into wars of imperial conquest at least as far back as 1898. It cried out in pain as it struck the Japanese empire. When this is understood, the regime’s conduct re: Ukraine is as American as apple pie.
9-11 pushed the American political elite over the edge into full on insanity. They had been smugly self satisfied fro the fall of the Berlin Wall. Convinced of their own moral and technological superiority. They fully bought into the Fukyama thesis wrt the end of history and the universality of their liberal democracy.
9-11 was a punch in the nose that shocked and enraged them. They decide to force the end of history and triumph of L-D instead of waiting for its inevitable triumph.
Every setback since, Iraq – Afghanistan – Lybia – Syria – now Ukraine. Has led to them reinvigorating their commitment in the same way that the failure of a cult leader’s prophecy leads to deeper commitment by the acolytes.
I wish that their fervor would just fizzle out and their grasp of reality restored. But history suggests that that will only happen after a truly catastrophic defeat that is impossible to ignore or dismiss.
9-11 was the capstone for the jewish century to crush any american dissidence; that mossad false flag was used to (as always) enrich the MIC, turn up the ‘war on terror’, and now is full on search and destroy any ‘white supremacy’ for the extermination of whites.
The US had always been the bad guys
(except when you cleaned America from torturefanguys, AKA redskins)
(if I could, I would have deleted my comment, which is totally exaggerated and caricatural)
At the end of the Cold War, and with every global foe apparently vanquished, all of the cultural filth and postmodern madness that had been accreting domestically since the 60s, took hold of American society, comprehensively and profoundly. It was at this point, sometime in the 90s, that America assumed the mantle of the Evil Empire that had so recently belonged to the USSR.
“When was it exactly the us became the bad guys?”
1917, when Woodrow Wilson asked for a declaration of war on Germany one month after his second inauguration — after having campaigned for re-election on the slogan “He kept us out of war.”
To “make the world safe for democracy,” of course.
That’s off by 46 years, give or take.
Col Douglas MacGregor has said that the revolution in military affairs, that Donald Rumsfeld was pursuing, is here. In networked ISR, in real-time. That means Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance, networked together to provide real-time response to the enemy. In practice this meant the US could see from satellites, drones, aerial surveillance, and various radars the Russian assaults on Kiev and Kharkov, and was able to shoot down (with embedded forces, the Ukranians cannot do this) plane after plane carrying paratroopers. Also Helicopters. And destroy the various armored columns.
This was a great victory over the Russians. They were solidly defeated. That one time.
The issue is, that the Russians can and now do that too. When Ukrainian forces advance, they are seen also by Russian satellites, drones, air assets, radars, and passive acoustic devices with no electronic signature. Meaning the side with the most artillery, ammo, attack drones, and long range missiles wins. That has been mostly Russia. The Russians are not advancing in blitzkrieg fashion because that no longer works. Even as degraded as the Ukrainians are, they can still with US forces defeat a blitzkrieg. US tactics developed from the Germans and perfected in Iraq/Afghanistan where the enemy did not have ISR, is to probe defenses, find a gap, pour a small unit into it followed by bigger units. All this does is provide targeting info for the Russians. Who have a 10-1 artillery advantage, and greater industrial capacity. And a more unified population. And are fighting on their borders. Against a hostile civilization intent on making their kids trannies and importing masses of Africans.
With real-time targeting of forces stationary, moving forward, or retreating, with everything from front like mortars, more distant artillery, missiles from the Black and Caspian seas, missiles from Russia itself the idea of the Blitzkrieg is as dead as the cavalry charge. The planned Spring/Summer Nuland-Kagan offensive by the US and Poland into Belarus and thence Russia is likely to find this out. I don’t know the effect of say, 15,000 US POWs in Russia. Assuming it does not go nuclear, we will find out I think.
“… 15,000 US POWs in Russia.”
I suspect that the first thought most people would have upon reading this is that it would be hyperbolic nonsense. However, it is not. Moreover, those POW’s will be the lucky ones.
Americans have unwittingly built up an enormous reservoir of anger against us. The Russians won’t have easy access to vile DC trash clowns like Lyndsey “Linda” Graham or Victoria “Miss Piggy” Nuland, but they will have easy access to the poor US Army fools at the end of a transoceanic supply line, which is partially sourced from the allies (China) of those they will be fighting and which runs through the lands of “allies” most of whom (the people, rather than the corrupt governments) would rather we pack up to go back to our diversity-infested pesthole country, never to return. If we lose 15k POWS and this turns into a multi-year war, I would not be surprised in the slightest to see thousands of them applying for asylum in the RF.
FedGov left 20K in the Soviet Union after WWII because fighting over them “wasn’t worth” their lives:
“The documents indicate that about 20,000 U.S. POWs and MIAs were held as “hostages” after VE Day by Stalin to ensure Allied repatriation of millions of Soviet citizens and to obtain U.S. and Allied aid and diplomatic recognition of Soviet puppet regimes in East Europe.”
.https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1991/07/04/a-70-year-old-hostage-crisis/54578871-6dfc-4d97-8736-04b91398af44/
In World War II Germany raised an army lead by a prisoner named Vlasov that fought on the German side against the Soviet Union. I wonder if the Russians might try something similar with suitable U.S. POWs, if only for propaganda purposes.
Horace: Only the White ones. And I’m not sure how many White combat troops are still rah-rah murrican types. The nogs and mestizos would be horrified and will not be welcomed by the White Russians.
Serious questions here.
1) Are the videos on /pol/ real, or are they fake?
2) If the videos are real, then how are they not a grotesque violation of the Geneva Conventions?
Here’s a typical bombs-away video, poasted this evening, wherein a wounded soldier [or perhaps a soldier who doesn’t know how to swim?] , is struggling in a creek [or a canal or an aqueduct], when he is attacked with a very crude rudimentary drone drop of a 10lb [???] grenade, which further wounds him.
https://i.4cdn.org/pol/1677357943847132.webm
[backup copy]
https://files.catbox.moe/20f0rm.webm
And then the video of it is uploaded to the internet for all the world to see.
How is that not four or five [or eight or ten] different violations of the Geneva Conventions?!?!?
/pol/ is filled with hundreds [possibly even thousands] of these videos.
Here’s another in the bombs-away genre, where apparently wounded soldiers are surrendering [or have already surrendered]:
https://files.catbox.moe/jo6jy8.webm
[backup copy]
https://files.catbox.moe/jo6jy8.webm
Again, hundreds if not THOUSANDS of these videos all over /pol/.
“WOUNDED AND SICK”, Page 37
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.30_GC-I-EN.pdf
“To this end, the following acts are and shall remain
prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with
respect to the above-mentioned persons:
a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all
kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
b) taking of hostages;
c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating
and degrading treatment;
d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of
executions without previous judgment pronounced by a
regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial
guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by
civilized peoples.
2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.”
etc etc etc
This kind of stuff always happens. Nowadays it’s a problem for the government to control leaks of such footage.
I remember during the Iraq war seeing a video of US soldiers having a grand old time shooting civilians from a helicopter. Was when I first realized that the US is evil and spitting on soldiers is the proper way to thank them for their service.
An attack into Belarus would have to be made with the Russian heavily armed enclave of Kalinigrad well in its rear.
Germany is relatively defenseless without US forces. There is just enough strike package currently resident in Kaliningrad plus quickly landable that could take and occupy Berlin. An attack on Belarus, not merely driving through a slice of Belarus, could be rendered politically disasterous for NATO. I believe Belarus is safe but from the air forces. 4k Tomahawks is a lot of destruction. So, my view is that both sides will make sparing use of attacks launched on or from Belarus.
They can’t possibly import the level of Africans you are talking about. When this is over there will be a tremendous amount of physical labor which will be required.
Political miscalculations on both sides—no doubt. Russia invaded the Ukraine to force a settlement along the lines of the Minsk Accords. Kiev did indeed quickly begin negotiations, but Washington put a stop to it. The neocons wanted a war with Russia believing, like Hitler (June 1941), “You only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.” Berlin was excited to have another go at the Russ, with the rest of Europe behind them again and the Americans on the right side this time. Ever since, Western news has been a tired parody of Goebbels’ wartime propaganda replete with amazing “wonder weapons”. Like WWII, when Germany (and occupied Europe) cut itself off from Russian oil and other resources by invading the Soviet Union, the fate of Ukraine was probably decided once the West found itself in a war of attrition with Russia. The longer the war drags on, the weaker many Western economies, starved of cheap energy, are likely to become, and the more Russia’s manpower advantage over Ukraine will tell. Ironically, it is the West which has thus far been unwilling to seriously negotiate an end to the conflict. Maybe it is not just Russia the neocons want to destroy.
“Maybe it is not just Russia the neocons want to destroy.”
No doubt. The refusal to enter into peace negotiations is intended to amplify the economic destruction and part of the continuing White genocide. It is fascinating that Israel and the Neocons are at each other’s throats over this one, though. I guess that is a silver lining.
It is indeed interesting. Quite a number of wealthy Russians ended up in Tel Aviv after they were run out of Western Europe with whatever assets they could salvage; but the more notorious of them had to return to Mother Russia with tails between their legs. The Israeli PM’s peace-making efforts were, he alleges, blocked by The Americans. Perhaps Israel just wants to be taken seriously.
I like the way the kagan cult is warning China about providing “lethal” aid to the Ruskies – yeah, kind of like what the US government is giving to the Ukies? These morons are so F-ing stupid – yet another bastardized term no one has ever heard before. Lethal aid, give me a frickin break…
Yellen sounding like some kind of senile schoolmarm in her address in India was the utter height of ridiculousness.
Xi probably has a cracked rib or too from laughing so hard.
Take note about the warnings to China: there is no “or” let alone threatened response that follows the demand. “You better not ship munitions…” just dangles out there with no consequences laid out. It initially made me think there was some kind of 5D betrayal of Moscow going on between Beijing and D.C., but I now realize it is Clown World at its worst–unhinged bluster and fem derangement with an implicit threat everyone knows is hollow.
This is the direct consequence of de-industrialization of the West coverging with the estupidication of its leadership. I can’t totally discount that Washington thought China would keep trading with it if the two of them went to war, either. Maybe I don’t want to go there due to some flowery, naive, and likely false memory of a pre-retarded United States.
Off topic, sorry, but this writing made me laugh a lot
https://amgreatness.com/2023/02/24/harry-jaffa-vs-willmoore-kendall-redivivus/
I know start to understand more the US political structure. It appears by this writing, clearly, than THERE WAS NO RIGHT WING IN THE US.
Both “liberals” and “conservatives” have their roots in the “all men are created equals”
Consequently, it’s perfectly normal than the left always win, because liberals are totally coherent with the roots, and conservatives aren’t.
*
The words of Lincoln about the divine rights of kings (“you’ll work and I’ll eat) are laughable.
The king is not herr to eat what people produce. Lincoln mix feudalism with monarchy. As many Americans, he is perfectly ignorant of European history.
Strictly speaking, feudalism was, in France, a societal movement which appears near year 850 and start to decline near year 1150.This decline become faster in the 13 and 14th centuries and disappear near year 1450.
Then absolue monarchy rise.
This were the landlords which “eat while peasants worked”. A king could hardly eat the production of 20 millions people.
*
2nd big error of Lincoln – Jaffa-conservative, they based their views of polis on abstract Socrates books. They saw freedom and equality of rights in the foundation of polis. But instead, the reality was : first political structure was the family, with the father as king.
Then the bigger family, still monarchy.
Natural way, in the sense of biological feelings, was monarchy.
Democracy appeared when some kings became despotic.
*
To make short, US conservatives
-think they are the political right wing : false
-think there isn’t fatality as “all men are born equals” don’t evolve to equalitarianism : false
-think than “natural laws” produced democracy/republic : false.
*
Personally, I think the fun/ironic nazism of alt right was a failure, than “conservative” is just stupid left (as extreme as conservatives could go, they always find leftism) and than the true answer, the true right-wing, the true weapon against equalitarianism, as to be found in the “dark enlightment” US movement (even if its name is stupid, but so revelative of this right-wing attraction to play the bad guy)
*
I deeply apologize to the readers for my awful english. Hope Z will destroy the writer of this AG paper.
Agreed. US was founded on the principles of the Enlightenment: liberty, equality and progress. That is, USA is a country founded on the left.
The principles of the right (duty, hierarchy and tradition) have never been considered. The “conservatives” are the ones that defend liberty, equality and progress but reject the last consequence of this principles, until they end up accepting it.
Today, this applies to all the countries in the Western world, because all of them are based on liberty, equality and progress.
“The Western World” is just a self flattering title created by and for the GAE.
Anyone that doubts this just ponder the countries that became “Western” when they were absorbed in the GAE – whether by military conquest of voluntary submission.
One Hundred + years ago, even the British Empire was not considered fully western. It’s enemies and allies in WWI definitely were not either.
Then in WWII the US conquered, er liberated, France, the Lowlands, Germany, Italy and Japan.
All of which shortly became part of “the West”.
Then in the 50s-60s the west expanded to include South Korea and Taiwan. Greece, Spain, Turkey and Israel were added in the 70s-80s.
Iran, once “westernized” under the Shah – became non western with their Islamic revolution- and a perpetual enemy of the GAE for leaving its orbit.
The 90s-00s saw the west expand into Eastern Europe – to the door of the old SU.
Turkey has flirted with leaving the West as Iran did, but so far has not made the final leap.
And now, Ukraine is well on the way to becoming “Western”.
The GAE regime acts as if it has already beed accomplished.
@Imnobody, can’t agree more.
Once again, everything is caused by our stupid king Louis XVI.
Allied with Spain, we beat the ass of british navy near 1780
Absolute monarchy helping a republican regime to win wasn’t a very good idea.
Instead, we should have use our naval superiority to
*invade Britain and totally
*DESTROY the British parlementarian whigh regime.
*Hang, draw and quartered the hanovrian king
*Burn the parliament to thr ground
*Give independance to a Stuart Scotland
*and to an unified Ireland
*And to Wales
*Burn every english port, ship, and
*forbid them to rebuilt a single warship.
*Give the english crown to a nobody lord of Devonshire
*bring back India, Louisiana, Canada and those little Caribbean island to the french crown
Oh, and stole them Australia and new Zealand
And this comment section would have been written in my birth language😍.
(dreaming about “we-should-have History is an hardcore drug, I know)
(but, holy shit, LOUIS, helping REPUBLICAN-DEMOCRATS, I mean, Louis… Srsly?)
(and then, at last free from the bri menace, we could have reconquered the left bank of the Rhine, restaured the entire Gaul under a catholic-royalist regime)
😍😍😍😍😍
(still on the drug, sorry)
Will no one rid us of these troublesome (((Kagans)))??
We choose you. Be careful.
It’s difficult for the layman outsider to know the military/logistical constraints under which both sides are operating. Ordinarily, a Ukrainian strategy of elastic defense might be the best to follow; hold the line with a light screen of troops backed by a mobile reserve that hits Russian advances as they start to strech the Russian lines of communication. But that strategy requires sufficient numbers of armored fighting vehicles, plus trained crews, all supported by artillery and air assets. Ukraine may be incapable of fielding such a force at this point, so tenacious defense in built-up, fortified areas, hoping to inflict maximum casualties on the Russians, may be the only strategy of which they are now militarily capable. And all that is in addition to the political constraints that the Z-man ably identifies.
It’s more difficult to tell what military constraints the Russians may be facing, aside from the fact that battling (especially attacking) in built-up areas is about as psychologically stressful an activity as any known to man. Accounts of street fighting in Stalingrad, Berlin or Manila in World War II border on descriptions of hell. Theoretically, there’s enough space for the Russians to engage in maneuver warfare, a la Operation Bagration in 1944. Why haven’t they done it? Perhaps they are waiting for a Ukrainian offensive. In 1943 the Russian high command elected to let the Germans launch their attack to capture Kursk and, after having worn down the German attackers, launched their own attack that collapsed the German defenses around Orel. Are they following a similar strategy here? Hard to say. Putin would love to see a negotiated end to the war, but when the mad Kagan cult is in control of American foreign policy vis-a-vis Russia, negotiations are impossible.
Ukrainian national anthem: “We will lay down our souls and bodies for our country”.
The average lifespan of Ukrainian soldier in Bakhmut is 4 hours. And no resentment from the Ukrainian population against the hundreds of thousands of deaths of their young.
The anthem calls for it.
Wonderul. But why is it our business?
Hitler refused to allow Paulus to retreat from Stalingrad and that stupidity cost the Germans 900,000 killed, wounded, and captured; plus all of their armaments. It was the turning point on the Eastern Front. There, I said it. Zelensky is Hitler redux, and Bahkmut is his Stalingrad. To extend the parallel further, most of the press-ganged conscripts being force marched into the meatgrinder are untrained yokels from Western Ukraine (home of the Banderaistas) and their programmed deaths are no less efficient than the Nazi concentration camps and gas chambers. And all of this is happening because Sleepy Joe doesn’t want anyone to find out what he and the Kagan Cult have been up to in Ukraine for the past few decades.
And as for what this means for the USA, we are now clearly in the Stage 4 cancer zone. Trillions being printed by the Fed, millions of hungry mouths pouring across the border, and obesity rocketing past the 50% threshold. Yeah, no collapse coming any time soon. Where’s my beer and Tostitos says the normieman?
more likely doritos.