Religious Equity

Recently the Supreme Court struck down an Alabama redistricting plan on the grounds that it needed one more black district. The majority claimed that the Voting Rights Act demands racial proportionality in congressional districting, even though it says no such thing and if it did, it would be unconstitutional. The courts follow the news, and these judges understand what happens when you question racial orthodoxy, so they invented a new reason to conform with orthodoxy.

While the trend toward threatening judges, as is common in other corrupt societies, is an interesting topic, what matters here is the proportionality claim. One of the ideological shadows over this age is an old claim by the post-Mark culturalists, or what used to be called the New Left, is this idea that equity demands proportionality. Equity is the claim that a just society requires all people to equally participate and equally benefit from the stuff that come from society.

Back in the old days when left-wing meant high taxes on rich people, racial antagonists would argue that representation should be by race and sex. Congress should be composed along racial and sexual lines. If thirteen percent of America is black, then there should be fifty-seven blacks in Congress. Since roughly half the adult population is female, half of Congress should be female. This idea never got far, but the concept is embedded in the calls for equity.

At this point it is common to note that it makes no sense to hurl men into the void for noticing race while also demanding racial filters be applied to all outcomes. If it is true that black people know things about blackness that only black people can know and that requires that they be proportionally represented in all matters to ensure they get what they deserve, then race is not just real, but it is the only reality. The same can be said of sex, which gets the same treatment.

The inherent stupidity of the new religion is the main appeal. Ingratitude and grievance are functions of intelligence. The smarter you are, the less likely you are to think the world is unfair or that you are owed more than you deserve. Stupid people prefer to think their condition is the fault of others. The more magical and mysterious the cause, the more appealing it is to the aggrieved. Disproving something nutty like institutional racism is like disproving paranormal activity or astrology.

Putting that aside, the proportionality idea is not without some merit. Politics is about normative trade-offs. There is no empirically correct tax code, for example. Taxes are collected to pay for government. Who pays those taxes is a moral decision. The same is true for all public policy. The right policy is not something that can be established by the scientific method. It is what the rich people who control government think is the right policy or what they hope will keep the peasants docile.

With that in mind, if you are going to have representative government, then the legislative bodies should reflect the moral diversity of the people. The easiest way to sort people in terms of moral outlook is by their religious affiliation. Jews will have a different moral code than Muslims or Buddhists, for example. While all religions share moral claims, they have important differences. If the differences were superficial, there would be no need for separate religions.

Here is a recent list of congressmen and senators by religion. Presumably, this is based on what the person says about his religious identity. Many no doubt lie. For example, Joe Biden claims to be a Catholic, but he actively promotes things that are specifically against Catholic dogma. Is Hank Johnson a Buddhist? He is the guy who thinks Guam might flip over if too many people stand on one side. Moron is not a religion, but it could probably describe many members of Congress.

With that said, the most represented faith in Congress is Catholicism. They make up 28% of the elected officials. Catholics are 21% of the population, so the Vatican is significantly overrepresented in Washington politics. The next group is listed as “Protestant unspecified” at 20%, which probably means the person grew up in a secular home with a Protestant history. If you add this group to those who have no religious identity, this cohort of American is well-represented.

The group not getting equitable treatment, using the language of the new religion, is the largest religious identity in America. Protestants are roughly 45% of the American population but only 35% of Congress. Again, many of the people calling themselves Episcopalian or Presbyterian are faking it like we see with Catholics. What are the odds that Senator Chris Van Hollen can name a single Episcopal church in his state, much less the last time he went to mass?

This raises another consideration. About 30% of Americans attend services regularly, which is usually defined as at least once a month. About a third of Americans attend services for events like weddings, funerals, and holidays. It is fair to assume that a good portion of that group would attend regularly if the churches had not succumbed to the modern disease. Why go to church when you can hear a similar sermon during half time of the football game?

Now, how many elected officials regularly attend church services? How many of them even believe in God? There is no data on this, but it is a good guess that only a small portion of elected officials are genuinely religious. Instead, their views on religion and morality reflect the people who bankroll their campaigns and control the important parts of the managerial state. If you want to have a good career in Washington, you best keep your religious views to yourself.

If you want to know why so-called conservatives fall for every left-wing social fad, there is the answer. These people are experts at talking about religion and morality, but they exist in a world that has a different moral order and a radically different moral code from the people over whom they rule. Congressman X instinctively puts a sodomy flag on his Twitter profile, because that is what everyone else he knows is doing. The fact that he claims to be a Baptist is not in the front of his mind.

The point of all this is that one major cause of the current crisis of trust is that the ruling class of America has a different and district moral code. This shows up in the normative decisions made by Congress and elected officials. If Congress truly reflected the morality of the people, much of what drives Americans crazy about national politics would not exist, much less be the center of debate. Our politics would reflect our shared moral code and our shared moral priorities.

One of the ironies of this age is the people hopping up and down about equity also rail against religion and religious people. Yet the most likely way of reaching some sort of equitable result would start with equity in Congress. If the house and Senate truly reflected the moral sensibilities of the people, many of the issue at the heart of the social justice demand would be resolved. Religious equity in Washington would go a long way toward creating a just society.

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143 thoughts on “Religious Equity

  1. Thanks Z, you hit it on the head. It seems the moral presuppositions of the representatives stand out like a sore thumb, denomination aside. The Church bodies are a disastrous mess now. God in his time, is weeding out the betrayers and deceivers. Carry on Z

  2. Replace Congress with…
    … with what?
    We elect 537 people Federally, the very religious Americans you mentioned elected this husks.

    Sell thy iPhone and but a sword.

  3. So they found the debris field of the imploded submarine.

    The discovery of that debris field was thanks, I’m sure in no small part, to the efforts of some 50 year old white guys

    • Squirrel!

      Only point of interest in that story is the press release of the US Navy:

      “Oh, yeah. We totally recorded the implosion 2 days ago.”

      Sure. Sure you did, USN.

    • Well it did the job. Bounced the Hunter Biden Story out of the headlines.
      Oh, Look! A Shiny Thing!

    • Is there any part of woke that cannot be more clearly described as anti-traditional white? If not, say “anti-traditional white.”

      “Woke” joins “cultural marxism,” “bioleninism,” and “communism” as terms that avoid revealing the real issue and the real motivation.

    • This is why they can’t stand real Christianity. No official religion accepts other religion in the public sphere. If you live in an Islamic country, you can practice Christianity as long as you do it in private and follow the rules of Islam in public.

  4. It’s in the adversary’s playbook:
    The Whore of Jericho sold out her nation for salvation.
    Groom traitors to betray their nation for personal rewards.

    Epstein and kith are congruent to that play. People want advancement and Jeffy can provide it in a jiffy, for a fee – provide kompromat.

    Any Congress Critter that don’t put on the small hat and headbang the wall and provide infibenefits for the Klan are soon gone.

    • Of all the places those two hebrew spies could have ended up when they went to recon Jericho, it was at a whorehouse. Remarkable twist of fate.

      • Judah chanced upon his daughter-in-law, a women who he thought was a whore, he jumped her, seemingly right there on the road. Abe’s relatives engaged in father-daughter polyamory. Abe & Issac pimped their wives. Abe knocked up the maid then told the women and his child to beat it. Benjamin men were allowed to jump out of the bushes and have their way with girls passing by. Etc.

        In Bible times, Arameans were regarded as wandering riffraff. Riffraff that nations sought to keep out. The Holy family seem true to that.

        The Jericho story, taken as a Protocol, suggest a blueprint to seek out those who might be likely to succumb to the pitch.

        In particular, an example of bio-Leninism.

        • Judah had a religious duty to tup his daughter-in-law. A duty he was unwilling to fulfil. When she turned up pregnant she was able to prove that Judah was responsible for it.

  5. Need to update that list to reflect departure of Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse (good riddance) to become president of the University of Florida. His successor is former governor Pete Ricketts.

  6. I go to a number of churches simultaneously on sundays and wednesdays. The non denominational church is packed, but the message is just positive motivation from bible stories. Rarely do they discuss sin or punishment, or the current state of our culture. They do encourage bible studies where this is discussed in small groups, and i even hear a little antiwoke talk among these small groups. So maybe the big service is more of a conversion tool.

    The pentecostal church i attend is awesome. The preacher shouts fire and brimstone for gays, trannies, womanizers, bad wives, and the parents who raise them. Only problem is its practically empty. Newcomers usually dont return.

    • I was a regular weekly attendee at my local parish Catholic Church for decades, but this was because the priest was old-time Irish and every homily was a story that connected real events in his life with some scriptural message. It was like a campfire twice-told tale and I loved the experience, as well as the soul nurturing. Then he retired and was replaced by an unmistakenly gay fat SJW priest. I left and never went back. The Church left me, not the other way around.

      • I live in an area that has an upside, with its major downside. Surrounded by offal, the detritus of the nearby blue shitlibopolous, there’s always another nearby Catholic parish.

        My local parish also ended up manned by a Pastor of soft voice, catering more to the poor, poor co-religionists from south of the border.

        We now go one parish over, where a good man is at the helm.

  7. If “Protestant” was one thing then it might have done a better job of holding onto the power, back when this was a Protestant country. But Protestant was, and is, a lot of things. Many of them closer to Catholics or even Jews than to other Protestants. From the perspective of the Church of Christ or the Southern Baptists, Episcopalians might as well be Catholics. Not really a news flash. But it is reflective of the fragmented white political sensibility in the face of united vibrancy. LBJ was a “Protestant” and look where that got us.

    In current year AINO, there are really only two religions, Cloud and Dirt, and all the other denominations line up under one or the other.

    • One problem is: that the majority of young Americans are careerists and mercenaries who want the appearance of success as opposed to the reality.

      In other words, they are hollow men who not have a moral core.

      • Well said, only you left the feminazi’s out. The “modern western liberal woman” is the problem. The wussified men if you can call them that go along with the feminazi’s to get along.

    • I’ll admit I haven’t put in much work to argue the position, but my belief is Protestantism could be called Germanic Christianity, and all things Germanic have been subverted, suppressed, made anathema, etc., for a long time. All things white, generally, of course, but especially Germanic.

      Maybe that’s my bias, but Hitler!, so I’m pretty confident thinking along those lines.

      Romans subsumed Greece, conquered the Celtic peoples, and crushed the Jews, but adopted an offshoot religion. Germanic people collapsed Rome, but adopted the religion, fractured the church (which had already fractured and still seems to be arguing over which shard is Rome’s rightful inheritor), ended up in thrall to the Jews.

      Greeks, Romans, Jews, Celts, Germans. I kind of hear it rhyming over the millennia lol. But like I say, I haven’t put in the work, so who knows.

      • “I’ll admit I haven’t put in much work to argue the position, but my belief is Protestantism could be called…”

        The official HQ of the latest rainbow flag. FIFY.

  8. Somewhat OT, it was hilarious to see the concerted effort by billionaires and such trooping to Beijing (Musk, GM’s Mary Barra, Jaime Dimon, Bill Gates, etc) followed by Blinken to act dutifully abashed as he got a tongue lashing from Xi’s Foreign Minister to “reset” the US-China relationship off the War Path.

    Only to have Biden blow all that up by referring to Xi as an out-of-touch dictator who does not know what his underlings do or control his country. For an applause line in a speech. Bingo, Chinese Aircraft Carrier cruising the Taiwan Straights and War back on the menu.

    Regime change is not just for the GAE. China can play too, and at this point has likely concluded that they just cannot live with the current Regime in any form. On this I think they will be pushing the open door of forced sterilization of (White Kids only). A Federal Judge threw out Arkansas Law banning that for kids under 18, it looks like the Appellate Courts and Supremes will rule the same. Meaning now the Alphabet people have a ready means to force sterilization and mutilation (and likely, sex) on White people’s kids. [Related, UCLA says White People should work for free on Juneteenth no holiday for them as third class citizens].

      • That was the intent, but the worm has turned on this one. I look for the “Left” to evolve soon enough on the issue. Their drones and foot soldiers will follow suit. There is precedent with the celebration of single mothers. They still depend on them but the praise was toned down as public opinion changed back in the Nineties.

        • That certainly is happening now but as it becomes ostracized, which is where it is heading if it continues to be unpopular, they will turn on a dime. White women basically have no agency and can flip the on and off switches on anything, unfortunately for their sons up until now.

    • The Regime has distinct pro-China and anti-China factions. There is no “American” China policy. As is the case with totalitarian states, we cannot see inside the box to tell which group has the upper hand at any moment. The Chinese are smart, and the smart thing to do is assume the hostile faction always in in charge. They will do the smart thing.

      As for transgenderism, political hacks in black robes are fighting a losing fight now. Trannies are poison. Look for the “Left” to “evolve” soon enough on transgenderism. Their political flunkies on the bench will follow suit.

      • Have the American elite sold themselves a pup in their dealings with China?

        In other words, have the Chinese double-crossed them?

      • Has there ever been a case of the New Left abandoning a cause that is on its left fringe? I don’t recall that ever happening. They push and push and push, no matter how unpopular it is, until the cause is codified into law.

        • Certainly. The most recent example* was single motherthood, which was celebrated until the early Nineties, when it either was criticized or ignored. Of course, “gay parenthood” was coming into being as a new fetish. The glories of single motherhood mostly are not discussed at all now. Of course, there are far more bastards now as well.

          Eugenics was big with the Left until a certain Austrian painter was vanquished. Even then, lobotomies and sterilizations continued until the early Eighties in Oregon and Washington states despite court orders. That’s a particularly interesting look into the mind of the Left if you are ever so inclined. The deadenders were hard to bring to heel. I find that saga fascinating.

          I would argue the mother of all abandoned leftwing fads was temperance followed by prohibition, a project ushered in by women. Progressive prophets actually believed in God then.

          Generally you are absolutely right, but the Left is all about the accretion of power and will reluctantly abandon things once they become cost prohibitive. Granted, again, those are few.

          *You could argue that fetishization of women’s “rights” have been abandoned of late to embrace transgenderism where it conflicts, but I submit that is coming to an end soon. You”ve come a long way (back), baby, something, something.

  9. For me personally, one of things that really infuriates me the most about the DIE fad is the totally normalized, flagrant misuse of the word “equity” which is never called out or questioned.

    Equity does not mean what they think it means. It is not a redistribution scheme. It is not proportionate representation. Equity actually means that each person is awarded a share of the proceeds proportionate to their own contributions, which is exactly as it should be. Equity is sublimity and justice itself, and it is only necessary to understand the word in its true signification in order to see that DIE has nothing whatsoever in common with it, and is in fact the very antithesis of it.

    I’m not losing another word to the Leftists. Nobody drew the line at “gay.” Nobody drew the line at the rainbow. I am drawing the line at equity.

  10. OT:

    I love watching these box office flops one after the other. Mermaid, Flash, Elemental are all going to lose hundreds of millions. Indiana Jones is going to lose tens or hundreds of millions more when it is released later in June. Same with Fast and Furious.

    Black Spiderman is the only one that has turned a profit and even this one is hardly a smash hit. Hopefully the ticket sales are driven by black audiences not by whites tuning into propaganda.

    Maybe Disney can change their strategy to just putting their billions in a high interest savings account. That would have gotten them much better returns than making movies.

    • I didn’t even know there was a black Spider-Man movie.

      But it’s no surprise.

    • Glad to see people staying away in droves, but this will have no impact whatsoever on the production companies. They are parts of the Power Structure and are thus immune to financial pressure. Propaganda over profit.

      • Amen. They’re going to ride this to its conclusion. There will be no thoughtful reconsideration, no reversing of course.

        Aut despicio aut nihil

      • They should have make her Tinker Bell in a diverse remake of Pinocchio. I want to see the stage hands hoisting that blimp.

        • I’m pretty sure Tinker Bell was in Peter Pan, but that would be even better. They could put Ellen Page in the title role. Unless she’s become unbondable, which wouldn’t be surprising.

          • “Unbondable”. Sir, I may be interpreting that word out of innocent ignoranamity, but be so, I take that as a legit challenge that can be conquered with 100 MPH tape and 550 cord.

          • It’s a showbiz thing. Production deals can require stars to get a bond payable to the production company if the star drops out during production due to drugs, craziness, etc. Or, I suppose, suicide?

  11. “The majority claimed that the Voting Rights Act demands racial proportionality in congressional districting, even though it says no such thing and if it did, it would be unconstitutional.”

    The Civil Rights Acts have been the REAL constiution since the 60s; that old one is just a crusty artifact.

    Read the LBJ novels by Caro. They are way too long, but give a CLEAR idea of who LBJ was and what he did to the country. *Spoiler Alert*: he delivered the coup de grace. It’s been bleeding out even since.

    Not to say the country wasn’t falling before; hell Eisenhauer sicked BAYONETS on school children lest they not celebrate diversity!

    • “Not to say the country wasn’t falling before; hell Eisenhauer sicked BAYONETS on school children lest they not celebrate diversity!”

      For the first time in the lives of most, old photographs of the Guard menacing Southerners at gunpoint with obvious lethal intent have started to be published lately. Make of that what you will.

      • Ike gets a lot of praise on the left and the dissident right for his ‘military–industrial complex’ speech. I don’t think it means what they think it means. Eisenhower was CFR and, given he was neither assassinated nor impeached, presumably quite comfortable with the CIA activities that took place on his watch. I think he was just reminding uppity defense contractors who they worked for.

    • I hadn’t read your comment before I posted mine, but somehow this discussion of protestant representation led us both to LBJ

    • That’s why the killed the Catholic and placed that criminal- he worshipped a certain plucky little country.

      Ike, a German (!) murderer of millions of his own, turned out to be one of the greatest liars of all time, casting shade on the very “military-industrial complex” that he himself had built.

      It was he who tried to push thru the original Civil Rights Act of 1957, the one LBJ picked up as a Senator, VP, then President.
      Thus, the Topeka decision and Union troops in the white South.

      It is not the creatures, they are what they have always been- God’s IQ test. The test is that anyone ends up worshipping these creatures and their imposter God.

      Yes, the full Gnostic. These creatures are the only ones on earth with an obsessive focus on sexual mutilation.

      Apollonian medicine became industries of hysterectomies, mastectomies, brutal clitoridectomy, circumcision both common and ‘sacred’; a few good vaccines became dozens of harmful, forced, and sterilizing ones; surgery became the Mengele mythos.

      People will point to a short-term fad around one Chinese emperor who was said to favor small feet, or tooth-filing by Vietnamese snakes, but these can’t compare to this ancient sex-mutilation virus from only the Semitic lands.

      How, how can we come to worship such perverse creatures as these?

  12. Kakistocracy, Idiocracy, whatever-ocracy. It’s the ocracy of the month here in Uncle Samville, and buy one, get one free if you call within the next 15 minutes (so says the commercial on endless loop that the target audience somehow does not notice.

    Hold my beer.

  13. Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado is jewish by ethnicity. Also, you might as well lump all the Unitarians in as jews.

    • Jews are six percent of Congress. Given what we see in high cognitive fields, this suggests Congress is not a high cognitive field. While Jews are overrepresented in Congress, it is nowhere near what we see in math or physics.

      • “It is nowhere near what we see in math or physics.”

        I see your point. But if one views it through the lens of networking/power-seeking it makes sense. Same with media.

      • Jews are 2% of the US population, and 6% of Congress, a 200% overrepresentation. Catholics are 21% of the US population, and 28% of Congress, which is a 33% increase. Yet it is the “Vatican is significantly overrepresented in Washington,” not Jerusalem and not Tel Aviv. Strange, Z Man, that you avoid this topic so assiduously, and hand out compliments when you do touch upon it.

        • Plus many jews claim to be athiest when interviewed, but theyre ethnically jewish, which means behind closed doors, the conversations are happening.

          Also, this tells us how little power congress has compared to bankers, lawyers, and the media.

          • Congress? What’s the percentage of bureacratic staff? Department heads? Most especially advisors and consultants.

            Chamberlains, middlemen, behind the throne, not targets sitting upon it.

            The “Lucifer”, after all, was the title of the high chamberlain, the right-hand of the king, his Ab-ra-ham, the “Beloved of Lord Ham”.

      • Sort of. There are a few evil genius exceptions, but generally it seems Jews consider elective office a jobs program for their dumbest relatives. They’re spread around the country to “work” as placeholder/ciphers. There are about fifteen Jews in the whole upper midwest, yet almost all of them are governors, big-city mayors, and attorneys general—and idiots.

      • What the relatively low density of Jewish congressmen shows is that congress is populated by ACTORS, who “represent” segments of the population only in so far as they are cast for that role.

        It’s the same principle in Hollywood: to look at movies you’d think they were produced in a gentile heaven. But no one doubts who’s calling the shots, choosing the cast, making the editorial decisions, footing the bill and keeping the books. Politics is the same system, with the same perverse entry “fees” to be cast in a juicy role (see Weinstein, Harvey).

        I recall that Gore Vidal wrote a novel titled “Hollywood” about American politics in the early 20th century. It says a lot that a certified weirdo saw the symbiosis between those two phony worlds.

  14. Part of the reason Catholics are overrepresented in Congress is they were 40% of the Baby Boomer generation, which now is the main cohort power. That ended in 1965, when they started using the Pill as much as anybody, and their birth rate dropped to around 1.6 per woman now, close to the national average. Paul VI and his successors never implemented his Humanae Vitae proscription on birth control, or even much for abortion, as shown by Biden, Pelosi, et al. going unexcommunicated. Catholic percentages in that and other areas of influence will be waning quickly as the Boomers die off. The influx of Hispanic Catholics only has replaced those dying from other generations, keeping Catholics at about 20% of the national population, as they have been for around 150 years. And many of the Hispanics have become Protestant, or nothing.

  15. …”The inherent stupidity of the new religion is the main appeal. Ingratitude and grievance are functions of intelligence”…IOW same appeal as to 2 year old children.

    …”The smarter you are, the less likely you are to think the world is unfair or that you are owed more than you deserve”…IOW actual human ‘adults’

  16. Good essay to think about for those calling ourselves Christian.
    Unless we fly the rainbow battle flag our Christianity is not represented in our government.

    • People who fly the Bum and Penis are not Christians. They are Leftists who use Christianity as a vehicle for their feculent ideology.

      • The same goes for Catholics. When I attend an SSPX mass I am surrounded by men in sportscoats (or the most formal clothes they can afford) and women with veils over their hair and long skirts or dresses. The sermons are usually challenging and sound more like a theology course, delivered by a priest that looks and sounds like a man. There are families with three to five children present.

        Many of the mid to upper class area standard Catholic masses I’ve been to, Lord, I can hear the lisp in the intonation of the priest. Cleavage displayed or upper thigh garments on many women. “Old Guy” t-shirts and shorts on the men. The sermons have all the depth of Marvel movie and each church has its own modernization gimmick going with the music or decor.

        Point is, even in Catholicism, it’s as easy for a modern Catholic to find a pretend Church like the Episcopals do now … that simply checks the social networking box and outward appearance of morality without actually having to do all that actual “Christian stuff” like obedience to God. You can make abeyance to the god of feels good and socially praised modernity in most Catholic Churches.

        It’s damnably hard to find a righteous church in modern parishes, particularly since the Red Pope is actively crushing SSPX and trad masses.

        I attended one SSPX mass held in the small chapel of a dilapidated Mortuary because they had been driven out of their church and left unsupported by Rome. God was present there in that musty room.

        Most of these Catholics in the Capitol or executive corporate suites could, on the drop of a hat, be quite comfortable attending a post-Christian Episcoplaal or Lutheran gathering complete with a lesbian “minister” wearing a priest’s skinsuit garment.

        Give it 5 years and I fear many Catholic churches will fly the gay flag in June.

  17. “Jews will have a different moral code than Muslims or Buddhists, for example.”

    All 3 groups are not American, and all 3 have a different moral code than the White, Christian majority of actual Americans.

    As usual, diversity of any kind is always a debilitating weakness and source of conflict. We see this in the war in Ukraine. 2 countries of largely very similar ethnicities are at war primarily because of language diversity. How long before the language diversity in the American Southwest causes a civil war in the US? Not only a language diversity, not even just ethnic diversity, but racial diversity, As soon as America is no longer rich, they are going to vote themselves back to Mexico.

    • Yes Tars. I would just add that, near as I can tell, a certain group has taken over Ukraine and marched all the Christians off to war. I’m supposed to believe that this non-Christian junta represents the average Uke?

      • Aye. Language diversity is far down the list of what’s catalyzed the war in the Ukraine.

        • I know there are other reasons, but AFAIK, in the East, it all stems from the banning of Russian in schools and workplaces. They opposed and defied the new laws and that this is how the war opened up back in 2014.

          Obviously NATO has played a role, the EU has played a role and probably other flashpoints as well. But that in these regions, the people saw themselves as Russians and begged the Russian government to come in and help them.

          • Be that as it may, what sparked the actual war was the movement to incorporate the Ukraine into NATO. Russia made clear this would trigger an invasion and the GAE pushed incorporation anyway.

          • Yes, but remember there existed breakaway provinces since 2014. Those provinces were primarily Russian in ethnicity. Their grievances were not because of potential NATO membership, but because of “genocide”—not as in physical murder—but as in deliberate extinguishing of their (sub)culture.

          • Not only did they ban Russian, they shelled the Russian provinces mercilessly.

            What is the dominant Uke religion, anyways?
            Are they Catholic, like the Poles, or is there an ethnic Ukrainian Orthodox church?

            Remember how Catholic JFK came to the aid of Catholic Diem, when the Minh Bhuddists attacked the Viet Catholics?

  18. One of the main reasons Protestants are underrepresented in Congress is that the place, while having always had seedy, corrupt people, is now exclusively the domain of dirty circus people. Even if you’re a non-practicing former protestant who still believes in the basics, it’s not culturally, the place for you. Catholics, on the other hand, have a huge capacity for living with hypocrisy. “Father O’Brien sure likes to go to Fire Island a lot.’ With Jewish people the level of self service is unbelievable, so they’re also a natural fit for this dirty, circus environment. They were the owners of Vaudeville theaters after all. Which is why both groups are perfectly at home is law school (liar school) which is the gateway training ground to a future undignified political life.

    • The various American forms of Protestantism and their practitioners are just as corrupt as “in name only” Catholics. Have you forgotten Jerry Falwell, Jim and Tammy Baker, and Jimmy Swaggart? Enough false equivalencies between Catholicism and Protestants.
      There are hood and bad in both.

  19. From Uncle Ted:
    Some leftists may seem to oppose technology, but they will oppose it only so long as they are outsiders and the technological system is controlled by non-leftists. If leftism ever becomes dominant in society, so that the technological system becomes a tool in the hands of leftists, they will enthusiastically use it and promote its growth. In doing this they will be repeating a pattern that leftism has shown again and again in the past. When the Bolsheviks in Russia were outsiders, they vigorously opposed censorship and the secret police, they advocated self-determination for ethnic minorities, and so forth; but as soon as they came into power themselves, they imposed a tighter censorship and created a more ruthless secret police than any that had existed under the tsars, and they oppressed ethnic minorities at least as much as the tsars had done. In the United States, a couple of decades ago when leftists were a minority in our universities, leftist professors were vigorous proponents of academic freedom, but today, in those of our universities where leftists have become dominant, they have shown themselves ready to take away from everyone else’s academic freedom. (This is “political correctness.”) The same will happen with leftists and technology: They will use it to oppress everyone else if they ever get it under their own control.

    • More on religious aspects:
      Various thinkers have pointed out that leftism is a kind of religion. Leftism is not a religion in the strict sense because leftist doctrine does not postulate the existence of any supernatural being. But, for the leftist, leftism plays a psychological role much like that which religion plays for some people. The leftist NEEDS to believe in leftism; it plays a vital role in his psychological economy. His beliefs are not easily modified by logic or facts. He has a deep conviction that leftism is morally Right with a capital R, and that he has not only a right but a duty to impose leftist morality on everyone. (However, many of the people we are referring to as “leftists” do not think of themselves as leftists and would not describe their system of beliefs as leftism. We use the term “leftism” because we don’t know of any better words to designate the spectrum of related creeds that includes the feminist, gay rights, political correctness, etc., movements, and because these movements have a strong affinity with the old left.

      • I would argue that the Left does desperately try to place an ersatz god to draw those seeking a higher power to invigorate that hollow spot in the chest.

        Mother Earth, “The Right Side of History”, and the “Social Contract” are a few gods that come to mind.

      • Yes, serving self, not God, as most of the pious understand it.

        What God does the left serve then?

        Not purely themselves, no, that is a rare 2%; the vision they serve is their people, the picture in their head of “their people”.

      • A religion does not need the concept of God or the supernatural. See Buddhism or Confucianism.

        If there is an idea that can help us is this one: “leftism is a religion”. This should be repeated over and over.

        If leftism is a religion (which it is), it must be separated from the State. Leftism camouflaging as a non-religion allows it to exclude all other religions from the public sphere while becoming the official religion, upon which the laws, the government, the schools and the media are based. Moldbug explained that.

    • To add to the irony, the propaganda outlets that published, albeit reluctantly, Kacynski’s manifesto would fight tooth and nail today to keep it out of the public domain. Looking back at it, the insights were brilliant even if the mind that made them was disordered.

      • Astronomical IQ, and an early victim subject of MK-ULTRA; they picked him because of that IQ.

        He needed that cabin alone so he could do one thing: think, without distraction. Striving to re-order that broken, brilliant mind.

        • Hmmm. Didn’t Solzhenitsyn lament that, in the camps they said “if only one hallway…” Didn’t TK simply agree?

  20. Zman writes: “Now, how many elected officials regularly attend church services? How many of them even believe in God? There is no data on this, but it is a good guess that only a small portion of elected officials are genuinely religious. Instead, their views on religion and morality reflect the people who bankroll their campaigns and control the important parts of the managerial state.”

    Unfortunately, just because most of these politicians are secular does not mean that they have discarded the underlying morality that derives from Christianity, specifically a blind faith in egalitarianism. Unless there is a transvaluation of values, per Nietzsche, we will keep hurtling into the abyss. I discuss this (as well as historian Tom Holland’s take on it) in relation to transsexualism here:

    • Well, that’s your opinion and it’s a inherently false diagnosis of the problems facing western civilisation whose only foundation is the appeal to anti-semitism.

      The more western civilisation deviates from its moral foundations the worse things are going to get.

      The main problem with anti-Christians is that they have a faulty understanding of what Christianity really is and are unable to discern the true nature of the Roman Catholic Church.

      It is an entity with her own strategic and political objectives; which are inherently antagonistic to the continued existence of the white race. The RCC has so fundamentally altered her nature after Vatican II that the current church can no longer be considered the successor to previous institution. Also it’s full of Marxist priests.

      Finally, what does “neighbour” mean?

      | C.T.

      • You mean the Vatican Bank was, ahem, re-organized like we now have a Federal Reserve, or like William of Orange allowed the Bank of England (the City) to be created?

        What makes the Left’s originators so powerful is that they target the fortresses of their strongest enemies.

        One cannot deny their reckless courage; they will sacrifice even their own for a strategic placement. Say, the Belsen-Bergen camp for a photo op, or betraying a comrade in the USSR to gain a higher position, more useful to serve the whole. Who else would open isolated trade posts selling firewater in savage Indian lands?

        The culling effect means those who serve the whole are strengthened, those drawn to the outer culture are culled.

        All good when one is told, as a child (the basis of strong belief), that all the Seed will be resurrected, or that the Tree is the real immortality. What loss, then, one short chapter in a temporary vessel?

  21. In my New Left days, we proposed that the U.S. should dissolve its anachronistic states and tripartite federal government and be ruled by a national assembly composed of proportional representation by race and sex now gender. But we realized that minorities would always be minorities so democratic rule would be a non-starter. Benefits — wealth — must be distributed on the basis of need and we all must be moral creatures according do some moral consensus: moral socialism.

    We realized that this would be a utopian fantasy so we told Howard (Zinn) that we’d decided that the only practical way to govern a country, if country there need be as we were proto-globalists, would be via a compassionate, self-replicating ruling elite with solid, upright values. We invaded academia to promote our idea and, alas, look what happened.

  22. Clever idea and, certainly, more palatable than race for normies, but in the end, it’s always about race in a multi-racial society. A black Christian will side with a black Muslim against a white Christian.

    Multi-racial societies fall into two camps. In the first camp, one group – usually the majority but not always – dominates the other groups. That group runs the govt, is the vast majority of the police and military, are the judges, run the businesses, etc.

    In the other camp, everything is split along race or, at the very least, a constant negotiation about splitting the spoils of society. There’s an open understanding that each group gets its share.

    The USA is in a transition from the former to the latter, but neither side seems to want to admit it. The CivNats keep clinging to muh Constitution and colorblind civic nationalism. The Left doesn’t want to openly say it’s a racial spoils system because then whites would start to think of themselves as a group.

    So, we sit in limbo.

    • “The USA is in a transition from the former to the latter, but neither side seems to want to admit it. The CivNats keep clinging to muh Constitution and colorblind civic nationalism. The Left doesn’t want to openly say it’s a racial spoils system because then whites would start to think of themselves as a group.”

      This is right on the damned money. Well stated.

    • Yup, Civil Rights law reigns.

      What happened to our women?
      They were promised group spoils.

      Thus, the “longhouse” effect: Women defending the worst among themselves solely on the grounds that they are also women.

      First the gays, now the trannys, then the pedos are jumping in.

      Congessmen, judges, cops, prosecutors, apparatchniks, corperates: who do they serve?

      Their People, their identity group.

      Carving out identity groups, then, is the key to power.

      Note to dissidents!

  23. “Moron is not a religion, but it could probably describe many members of Congress.”

    It’s almost a requirement for the job. Two reasons. First , you can relate better to the hoi-polloi whom you purportedly represent. The old “30 IQ rule” comes into play: with an IQ difference of over 30 points, two people just cannot relate. Second, you don’t understand to what purposes you are being directed: you just follow orders from on high. This is why the tribunes of the people are such jackasses

    • I live in a small South American village in which the natives are nearly all persons of 110 i.q. at best, but more likely undero 100. The “new people” (as in not born here) rank a bit higher. I’ve been here for 19 years and have a Stanford-Binet (I’m 76) i.q. of 156 nd a WAIT of “very superior”, seeing as they didn’t numerate over 140, so I don’t “relate” in terms of many things, but I’m well liked by the locals because I keep my light under a basket, so to speak. My serious conversations with others are exclusively with family and folks from outside the area.

      None of our present candidates for mayor fnished high school, nor did the justice of the peace!

  24. Haaaa, Z, very clever what you’re doing here. Of course you know that religious representation would be unconstitutional so it isn’t going to happen. But if it DID happen, the proportion of a certain Semitic tribal religion would be capped at… 1.8%.

    Heh, heh.

    Of course, as you point out, there are many people born into a religious affiliations who do not attend worship, or become atheists. That is why a certain German leader a few decades back preferred to think of people in racial rather than religious categories. And it just so happens that members of that Semitic tribe define themselves by their race and their DNA, thereby including the non-worshippers within their group.

    Here is where it gets interesting: proportional racial representation and affirmative action are also in violation of the Constitution, but nonetheless the courts have tacitly allowed it for over fifty years. So if we were to extend proportional representation to all racial groups rather than religious groups… the Semitic tribe would be left with 1.8% of the Congressional districts as well. Apply that standard to affirmative action and Semites are limited to 1.8 per cent of job openings, university admissions, etc.

    Interesting, ain’t it? Every time some liberal clown says “______ should look like America,” the response should be “Agreed… ______ should look like America, not ISRAEL.”

    In any case, the entire discussion is moot because whites and white Christians refuse to vote as a bloc in most cases, and liberal whites enlist Semites and nonwhites as coalition allies against conservative whites.

    The exception is in places like Mississippi — the state with the highest percentage of blacks (about a third) yet one of the most staunchly Republican states. Why? Because 98% of Mississippi blacks vote Democrat… but 89% of Mississippi whites vote Republican.

    If you had that kind of white racial bloc voting nationwide, you could easily guarantee blacks 13% of the congressional districts and Jews 1.8% of congressional districts and it wouldn’t matter one bit.

    Blacks and Jews combined are less than 15% of the population. If whites and white Christians were united both groups would be non-problematic.

  25. The pretense of religious affiliation in DC is a public relations affectation that serves to garner votes and is part of the “game” of getting elected. Its not any different than kissing babies and glad-handing on a rope line. But this phoniness is not the root problem. With incumbency at 97%, politicians are effectively elected for life and inevitably morph into DC creatures that serve only their donors. The only skill required to maintain this sinecure is fakery and deception. And even that is only require for the first election. Once in, always in; unless you piss off your donors and get primaried.

    So what fixes this dysfunction that has persisted for decades now? Dan Bongino says voting harder forever is the only viable remedy, no matter how many times it fails. And then there is the French Revolution model or perhaps the Italian lamppost solution. The former is monstrously bloody, the latter not so much. Methinks the natural solution is collapse followed by a return of real hardship and the rise of hard men again. Add in some intelligence, focus, and creativity, and the societal body starts to heal based upon positive drivers versus trying to turn everyone into brown tranny drones who change their sex every other weekend.

    • Well, there is one religious affiliation over-represented in Congress that is not a PR affectation.

      • This is true. Many seats in Congress are outright purchased and no pretense is required. I don’t think this reality changes the remedy however.

      • That said, the large majority of Finkels are atheistic or agnostic. They define themselves more by ethnicity than religion. I am convinced, incidentally, that ethnic Finkels regard converts as friendly eccentrics rather than real Finkels.

  26. The twin idols of the left’s true religion are paraphilia and anthropogenic climate change. Both serve the ultimate goal of depopulation.

    First soft genocide, then hard.

    • Aside from sodomy, negolatry and global warming, Covidianism has some legs in my leafy suburban paradise. Plenty of masks on people walking around outside on 70 degree / sunny days and ritual hand sanitizing.

      • Saw two gray-haired white women driving down the interstate in a Subaru yesterday (make of that what you will) windows rolled up, 75 mph, wearing COVID masks.

        Went to a hippie coffee joint this morning… 3-4 staff and customers were wearing COVID masks.

        Cloth, naturally. Not N95 or anything like that.

        • Its become their yamulke of tribal identification. Only worn over the mouth instead of the crown of the skull. You simply witnessed observant Post-Christian devotees going about their daily routines.

          • On the positive side, it spares us from having to gaze upon their ugly mugs.

        • I live outside a metropolis which is an African and Latinx infested pesthole. (which in current year Merka is any and all of them) This morning I had the unfortunate need to go into it. I didn’t see a single mask. Granted, I didn’t go into any of the explicit shitlib areas.

          However, I did see a traffic wreck on the way back. Africans in both cars were being treated by an entirely white EMT team, cleaning up another diversity mess. 10 seconds after that I passed a billboard advertising for Bud Light … in Spanish. “If those white rubes won’t buy our tranny juice, I bet we can get the Latinx to do it!” It’s a clown world. 🙂 Cheers to all!

  27. “Why go to church when you can hear a similar sermon during half time of the football game”.
    Is that what the Jesuits taught you that going to Mass was about – the sermon? No wonder why you are no longer Catholic. Same on those Jesuits, an order that should once again be suppressed, the arm that brought liberal theology and other non-Catholic teachings into the Church. I pervades now.
    You are not alone, they got countless men and women to “think” their way out of the Church.
    Just so all know: Mass is to worship our Lord (period, hard stop). Hence “ad orientem”. Anything you get out of Mass is by His grace.
    Relearn (or learn for the 1st time) the true deposit of faith. is one of many countless websites to peer back before VII and discover real Catholicism.

    • In 80 percent of the churches I have went to, the sermons always booled down to “be nice”. The rest is filled with lousy music and lousy aesthetics and then people wonder why no one believes in the Eucharist. This is why Catholicism is well on its way to total collapse worldwide.

      You can’t expect people to take the faith seriously when most of the clergy do not take it seriously. I wish it was different but that is reality.

      • Let’s face it, most priests aren’t intellectually equipped to produce a solid homily each week. Most limit themselves to remarks based on that week’s readings and gospel, and they’re not likely to improve on the original text.

        It’s the music that really gets me. When I was a kid, there was a parish near us that featured a priest nicknamed “Fast Eddie”. He dispensed with all the music and got us out of there in 25-30 minutes. No one needs to listen to a budding Bob Dylan or Tori Amos use a church as yet another open-mic opportunity.

        • Find a Catholic Church which has a Low Mass (1962 missal). Not only no singing or crappy modern music, but almost nothing said outloud above a whisper.
          Very weird at first, but almost hypnotic after a while.

          • I was fortunate to attend masses with Father Burfitt.. the man who single-handedly defeated Governor Newsome in his Covid persecution of SSPX gatherings.

            His Latin is a wonder to behold. His sermons a challenge to follow.

            No cotton candy, straight word of God dictum.

            You are right, most priests these days practice just enough Latin to wow with a few phrases on special occasions. Be nice and tip heavily are what most priests can manage as lesson nowadays.

        • To be fair, it’s bloody hard to come up with original material on a weekly basis. That is why I have such respect for Z-man. His copious output, which has just enough variation, is damned impressive.

          I would never sit through one of those awful contemporary services. The only good Christian pop songs were done by hedonistic real rock bands: Doobie Brothers, “Jesus Is Just Alright” ; ZZ Top, “Jesus Just Left Chicago” and “Have You Heard?” ; (((Norman Greenbaum))), “Spirit in the Sky” ; Ocean, “Put Your Hand in the Hand.” The traditional services in my old Methodist church were always highlighted by a world class choir and organist performing classic high church Christian music.

        • Life long Catholic and I have never attended a mass or church with any music other than organ and classic hymns.
          Is this a California thing?

    • I have no doubt that many catholics would continue to attend mass if the priest was promoting child sacrifices to Bhaal.

      I have never placed any value on a faith that required me to ignore evil and stupid teachings out of some abstract notion that I should attend merely to “worship God.”

  28. “The point of all this is that one major cause of the current crisis of trust is that the ruling class of America has a different and district moral code.”

    The ruling class’ moral code is more than distinct. It is widely reviled. Hence the trend toward openly authoritarian rule.

    While not the central point of today’s essay, the Alabama case is significant in another key and related way. Roberts and Kavanaugh are not dimwits as is the case with Brown and Sotomayer. Both know they ruled in opposition to both the spirit and substance of the law (one the supposedly conservative Republican Party was too cowardly to dismantle many times when it could have). Why did they do so? Here’s the reason and it is key: because they are about to strike down affirmative action and want to point to this recent decision as “proof” they are not the Real Racists, swearsie. “Hey, we screwed over those Alabama bigots!” this indefensible decision says in anticipation of ending a practice that should have never happened in the first place. Roberts and Kavanaugh are trying to deviate from the ruling class morality while maintaining they only recently upheld it!

    Yes, threats of violence and terror account for this tactic–which is still likely not to protect the justices when the state-sponsored mobs appear on their lawns–but the primary motive is to inoculate themselves from claims they are apostates to The One True Faith. The hope is their friends and families also will be spared when Garfinkle meets with black “community leaders” to plot their terror campaign, and, more importantly, at those uncomfortable moments among Regime acquaintances.

    The Rule of Law has collapsed just as quickly as constitutional government did 160 or 80 or 60 years ago, YMMV. The Law of the Jungle now reigns supreme because it is Good and Holy.

    • Z: “If it is true that black people know things about blackness that only black people can know and that requires that they be proportionally represented in all matters to ensure they get what they deserve, then race is not just real, but it is the only reality. The same can be said of sex, which gets the same treatment.”


      Jack Dobson: “The Law of the Jungle now reigns supreme because it is Good and Holy.”


      Amurrikkkun Cuckservatives are far too insipid and burdened by a far too lazily amoral pseudo-spiritual corpulence to ever do this, but embracing the idea that ‘black people know things about blackness that only black people can know’ would be precisely a Psy-Op which could destroy all of this leftist nonsense.

      Let blacks be blacks, let them live proudly amongst themselves in their own homelands, and shame & shun & imprison sh!tlib Whites which deigned to enter the shantytowns with food & medicine & potable water for the blacks [because White foodstuffs & White medicines & White sanitation are inauthentic to the kneegr0w experience].

      Wall off all of the minorities into their own homelands [much as we have done with the Cherokee & the Navajo], and be done with them.

      Every minority gets its own Pale of Settlement.

      Because black people know things about blackness that only black people can know.

      Because mesoamerican
      people know things about mesoamericanism that only mesoamerican people can know.

      Because streetsh!tters know things about sh!tting in the street which only streetsh!tters can know.

      Because g00ks know things about killing and eating the neighborhood canines that only g00ks can know.

      Because s0d0mites know things about molesting & r@ping little boys that only s0d0mites can know.

      Because j00z know things about s@tanism that only j00ish people can know.

      Embrace all the ethnicities and their existential need for ethnically pure homelands.

      Because it is Good and Holy.

      • I agree that different peoples should have their own lands to live as is natural for them. But it is interesting to note the issues where abiding by this “live and let live” is difficult.

        You wrote, “Because s0d0mites know things about molesting & r@ping little boys that only s0d0mites can know.”

        Even people who are inclined to let the Muslims force their women to wear beekeeper suits and not drive will have trouble accepting that the society that celebrates homosexuality will almost certainly have to accept the rape of their own kids. Homosexuals reproduce by sexual abuse.

        We strongly feel that no innocent child should have to endure rape. Ironically, this feeling is similar to the feeling that progressives have that no child should be denied a gender transformation or that the abolitionists had about slavery.

        I have no point to make beyond observing out how difficult it can let different peoples be different. Even for us “live and let live” types, there are issues, like child rape, where we feel compelled to intervene. But, as hard as it is, we should not, because other peoples are a tar baby that we will regret touching.

        • Bro.

          There are gonna be great big 200-ft-tall stainless-steel titanium walls surrounding the ethnic Pales of Settlement.

          And there will be sharks circling in the moats about the walls, with obligatory phreakin’ laser beams attached to their heads.

          There won’t be any little boys helicopter’ed in.

          Nor tunnel’ed in.

          As Douglas MacArthur once observed, old s0d0mites never die; they just fade away…


          Mildly off-topic, but the saga of Douglas MacArthur’s son, Arthur MacArthur IV, is, to me, possibly the moast fascinating of all the remaining as-yet-unsolved Amurrikkkun mysteries.

          Apparently the boy is still alive.

          I wish Arthur the IVth would come out of hiding and go on the record before he dies; I’d hate to see the j00z at the NY Times have the last laugh when writing his obituary.

  29. “Instead, their views on religion and morality reflect the people who bankroll their campaigns and control the important parts of the managerial state.”

    My uncle used to joke that instead of putting “Senator Smith – (D) Connecticut” on C-SPAN below their pictures when they’re on TV, they should place the name of their biggest donor.

    So instead, it would be “Senator Smith – (D) Pfizer” and “Congresswoman Jones – (R) Raytheon” etc. This would make it clear who is represented.

    • I like this concept. Taking it one step further, why not outfit them as NASCAR [or even now, god forbid, MLB] does, in jumpsuits with all of the sponsors’ logos proudly displayed.
      Think of the colorful costumes, esp. these days with the rainbow flag.
      My god, Carnivale has truly come!

  30. Especially in this day and age, if you claim to be Christian, why are you even serving mammon? I suppose saying you’re “Baptist” is merely an adornment, like that cross that mafia types would wear, or those cross earrings you used to see on punk girls in the 1980s. It’s like an amulet that keeps you from looking like a psychopath.

    And what’s up with those Orthodox with Ds as their party affiliation? For shame. They are not Orthodox, and I support an excommunication.

  31. Proportional representation by religion would face a constitutional obstacle. Article VI, Section 2 states: “[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    This will all become irrelevant when the United States becomes a Muslim theocracy later this century.

  32. Two things:

    1) As is pertains to the left believing everyone should have equal say and benefits in society: equal productivity, or any productivity, is always ignored by the left. Supply and productivity just happens magically in their view. AOC said this in her original draft of the green new deal that they wanted to pay those “unable or unwilling to work.” Their demand side economics reflects this. In their view if you break a window, or burn down buildings in misty peaceful protests, this is actually helping the economy economy, because you’ve created demand for jobs to fix those things.

    2) You’re correct that in a democracy, the tax code is always going to be voted on as a moral subject (like all subjects in a democracy). However, republicans do often believe there is an empirically correct answer to taxes with theories such as the Laffer curve. They might be right, but it’s not something that would ever be understood by the masses.

    • It is something also not understood by the MoC’s who propose such things. Even their staffers have to have “experts” explain such concepts in simple terms.

    • “However, republicans do often believe there is an empirically correct answer to taxes with theories such as the Laffer curve.”

      Even economic decisions that can be measured depend on a morality for evaluation. For example, it may be true that open borders will objectively raise our GDP. However, many people feel that an optimal GDP does not compensate for the unpleasantness that open borders necessarily brings. So, even objective statements about the economy depend upon a moral evaluation.

      • I agree with your premise, that the highest economic outcome may not always be best for the society. However, I disagree with your example. Firstly, GDP is a really cooked number (just like CPI) because it measures government spending as well. Secondly, some economists have actually been honest about the open borders problem with economics. There was a really good article before the 2016 election about immigration’s effects on the economy by a Harvard guy. His point was that, yes, open borders raises GDP, stock prices, and house costs, all effects that help people who already have money. Those same people don’t generally feel the negative consequences such as crowded schools, higher healthcare to pay for unpaid illegal immigrant bills, less social cohesion in blue collar neighborhoods, and increased demand for services at local levels.

  33. This has existed from day 1. Look at the founding father’s take on religion, the main ones were probably atheist, which was illegal in those days.

    • That is a myth, none of them were atheists. A few of the “main ones” were deists or had non orthodox Christian beliefs. The overwhelming majority were Christians far more devout in their faith than the average member of Congress now.

        • And he went to live amongst the revolutionaries in France who were similarly inclined, he came within a hair’s breadth of losing his life. Did he learn from this? I do not know the answer to that.

    • Most of the Founders were not atheists per se, but Free Masons.

      The Masons were not some satanic cult as are the kabbalists, they have not that genetic Spirit in them;

      They saw the wreckage of the Catholic-Protestant wars, the failure of judaism veiled as Christianity for Europeans (a wolf wearing sheep’s clothing) and so resolved to draw from as many sources as they could- Egyptian, a bit of Indian, Biblical, architectural, scientific, the arts- to assemble a better knowledge base from which to find less lethal solutions.

      Due to the state of science at the time, the idea of a One God, a First Mover, was generally accepted. Arguments began with that basis, even by such philosophers as Hobbes, Locke, Smith, etc., as they had with Augustine, Aquinas, Avicenna, or Athanasius.

      So to call them atheists, no.
      They still started out from the same root: One Source of Creation, one Beginning, one End.

      (The alternative would be uncountable cycles of Creation, each building up physical constants one at a time, piece-by-piece, until we have the harmonic orchestra of today…to which we are adding our own small pieces, which will be woven into the fabric of the next cosmic Cycle.)

      • p.s.- further digging into Indian and Arabian lore by the British presence resulted in the Victorian interest in “Spirituality” and seancés; I deduce that such Empirical societies as the Milner Group and Rhodes Council were Masonic in basis, only superficially related to judean Illuminati types.

      • Freemasons were not atheists, back then, although many of them are atheist today.

        They created a god who was good for their interest. They believed in the universal religion. They were progressive and globalist. They created a wicked system: the modern Republic, which has given its wicked fruits.

    • Exactly. Congresspeople should be selected like jury duty. And only those who are citizens and have a family, or own a business, or own property can be a congressperson.

      • The problem with that is that a class of consultants would develop with the stated goal of showing each incoming class the ins and outs of legislative responsibilities. They would soon wield all actual power and would whisper seductively into the ears of each new Congress Critter, “you’ve only got one chance to cash in on this gig…”

        Winning the lottery indeed.

    • Either lottery or accident of birth (monarchy) is the best approximation of democracy, as well as a thing in itself. Elected “representatives” fail on both counts.

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