The Death Of Pop

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Heard a good new song lately? Given the demographics of this site the answer is most likely negative but there are some young people here. If their answer is yes, it is going to be something from the hip-hop genre. Of course, given the demographics of this site they would probably not admit to it. This was the number one hip-hop song last year, in case you are curious. This one was number two, suggesting that the worst form of music has managed to get worse.

When it comes to what most people reading this would call popular music, the results are not much better. This was the most played “rock” song of 2023. One cannot help but wonder if it was created by AI due to its generic power-pop sound. This is the second most played “rock” song, which is not terrible, but it sounds more like a country tune than a rock song. In fact, it was number three on the country charts. This song was the most played song on the country stations.

You can go through the music charts and listen to the top-10 in each category each year and find songs that are pleasant and songs that are hilariously terrible. Miley Cyrus should cut back on that five pack a day habit and spend the savings on some people who can write music that make some sense. The fun part about scanning these music lists is there are many comically stupid entries that got pushed into the top-40 by the mega corporations that control the music business.

When it comes to what most people reading this consider rock-and-roll, the landscape has been barren for a long time. Who is the best guitar player in a rock band that is under the age of forty? No one knows. He probably does not exist because rock music does not exist as a genre anymore. If you want to hear that sort of music you are going to be buying or streaming stuff from thirty, forty or fifty years ago. Even young people who want that style reach back to the oldies.

The question is why has the popular music landscape become a barren desert of corporate product? There are still plenty of young whites who would listen to knew guitar music. Blacks still like things like soul and rhythm and blues. Even blues music could have an audience if anyone bothered. This post by Brian Niemeier goes into the reasons why popular music, especially rock music, has collapsed. He did an earlier post on the same topic discussing different reasons.

Not discussed is the culture of the managerial class. The people running the music business are no different from the people running the other centers of cultural production in that they have had the antiwhite bug for a long time. The music industry went all in on hip-hop in the 1990’s. Part of it was the belief that it was a fresh market and part of it was cultural. For managerial types, hip-hop was cool because it was not white, while rock-and-roll was pale, male and stale.

One result of the money drying up for all forms of music that appeals to white people is white people stopped making that music. They stopped learning to play instruments, stopped forming garage bands and stopped cutting their teeth at clubs. Elementary school bands are full of Asian girls playing violin. There has been a steady decline in the sale of musical instruments over the last few decades, even though technology has made it easier to record at home and make it sound good.

For rock music, this has killed the feeder system for generating new sounds and new acts that made the genre possible. Even if young people were still dreaming of being a rock star, the clubs where they would learn how to perform have dried up. The culture around going to club to find new sounds and new acts has also dried up. When the music industry shifted to hip-hop and corporate pop, they also shut down the development system for creating various genres of rock music.

We are starting to see this in other areas. The military is worried that white guys from the South are no longer signing up as in the past. This decline in white participation is due to the same factors as the decline in white music. If you make your institution openly hostile to white people, they will politely avoid your institution. Before long, you will lose the ability to win them back. A good rule of life for institutions is that once you go black the whites are never coming back.

Race is not the only reason for the decline of rock music. As those Niemeier posts explain, the industry is suffering from systemic failure. There lies another useful example that applies elsewhere. The federal government failed in its duty to maintain a marketplace for music. They allowed corporate players to monopolize radio stations, which coincided with the consolidation of the music business. The result is a narrow system that operates as skimming operation.

We see this in tech. Microsoft has a monopoly on operating systems and office productivity products. Innovation is non-existent in this area. Apple and Google own the mobile telecommunications industry. Despite the hype, there has been nothing interesting in mobile computing for a decade or more. The whole tech space is consolidating to the point where every business will be forced onto one of a few clouds of the cloud computing leviathan.

Of course, all of this can be chalked up to the end of empire. Empires are the result of failed societies, not successful ones. The Roman Empire grew out of the rubble of the failed Roman Republic. For half of its existence the Roman Empire operated like a mafia bust-out operation. The same is happening with the American empire, which grew out of the republic that died at Gettysburg. The main difference with the American empire and prior empires is speed due to the state of technology.

The shame of it is that like the remaining passengers on the Titanic, most Americans would enjoy some good tunes as the empire sinks under the water. That is not looking like it is going to happen, given the state of music. Who knows? Maybe Miley Cyrus will get lucky and made a good song for end-stage America. Or more likely, maybe a cage full of monkeys with some instruments will be the new Oliver Anthony and create an authentic anthem for this age.


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Memebro
Memebro
5 months ago

In case anyone is still reading this thread, I came across a pretty damn good “80s retro” band called Fire Tiger

This is one of their latest songs, but quite a few of their songs from the last decade have been pretty damn good from what I can tell.

Vocalist is female, gives off a strong Pat Benatar vibe with maybe even a touch of Annie Lennox or Belinda Carlisle with a rockier edge.

https://youtu.be/bhpmGM07rQ0?si=wVwa_V2PPcG7IocH

https://youtu.be/Rptz3grrHaE?si=ZK8dOTFYBuy8sIO9

Steve
Steve
5 months ago

Sad how fast day-old posts drop to obscurity, but since there are so many strong opinions here, thought I’d ask if you understand just how inexpensively you can now produce music? When my son and daughter got good enough that they wanted to record their stuff, I learned a new skill — mix engineer. About $200 for the audio interface, $200 for an assortment of mikes (though you can pretty much get by with a SM-58, maybe a SM-57 if the male voice has the timbre for it, $200 for a pair of KRK Rokit’s or equivalent, maybe add in… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
5 months ago

Oh, and if you are afraid of doing the mixing yourself, drop another $20-100 to hire that done, and you should probably pay the $100 to have it mastered. It’s worth it.

End of the day, you have under a grand in the equipment, and dropped maybe half that per song if you can’t do any of it yourself, and now have a song that you can peddle however you like.

Jannie
Jannie
5 months ago

Spot-on, Z-man! When I was in high school, there were a bunch of kids who learned rock instruments so they (we) could emulate our (horribly depraved) heroes from Guns N’ Roses, Metallica, etc. Looking at the next generation, it’s all electronic/rave music and hip-hop. I know hardly any high school kids learning rock instruments. You’re right that this started in the 1990s. However, the 1990s was an incredibly creative time in music and cinema, and groundbreaking electronic acts like The Prodigy easily co-existed with groundbreaking rock acts like Pearl Jam. There was also the great Britpop movement with Oasis, Blur,… Read more »

Anon
Anon
5 months ago

The best guitar player under 40 is Kanami Tono. She’s not White, but she’ll have to do for now.

Brandon Laskow
Brandon Laskow
5 months ago

The insanely prolific Australian prog band King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard is highly touted and very successful, selling out shows all over the place.

Memebro
Memebro
5 months ago

Music threads are always great.

Here’s a piece of rock history that I could watch over and over again on loop.

Two most beautiful sisters to ever bless humanity with music.

https://youtu.be/qVcl0Iw3fs8?si=Q31FzoiBTj3od3jo

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

Great performance!…

Jannie
Jannie
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

Wow! Thanks for that!

redbeard
redbeard
5 months ago

Check out Lords of Metal on Netflix. Contemporary teen comedy/drama about some kids forming a metal band. I can’t help but notice how “white” the film is. Maybe Z can review it and do a Green Door post.

Member
5 months ago

It is a scientific fact that rock music reached perfection in 1987, when Guns n’ Roses released Appetite for Destruction.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
Reply to  Pickle Rick
5 months ago

More like 1973 IMO, but you could stretch it to the late 70s…

Jannie
Jannie
Reply to  Pickle Rick
5 months ago

Hard rock par excellence indeed, but led a lot of young’uns astray.

Celticbiker
Celticbiker
5 months ago

Jews completely control the music biz, just like hollywood. Everything they touch turns to shit.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Celticbiker
5 months ago

Never heard of Irving Berlin, George Gershwin, Gustav Mahler, Simon and Garfunkel, Susanna Hofs, Leonard Bernstein……..

Stephen Dowling Botts, Dec'd
Stephen Dowling Botts, Dec'd
Reply to  Robbo
5 months ago

Yes, those (((artists))) exist. And yet, we are drowning in a sewer of rap and greasy R&B nagger noise.

So the existence of ((((artists))) with talent obviously doesn’t serve to prevent “everything turning to shit”, and doesn’t undermine his point in the slightest.

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
5 months ago

Try 1974…..It’s beyond mind boggling

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
Reply to  BigJimSportCamper
5 months ago

Well THAT landed in the wrong spot, sorry

Brian
5 months ago

“Not discussed is the culture of the managerial class. The people running the music business are no different from the people running the other centers of cultural production in that they have had the antiwhite bug for a long time.” Identifying the managerial class hive mind remains one of your most vital observations. As you’ve said, they are a black box to us, and we’re a block box to them. The recent release of a certain degenerate cartoon on a major customer-gouging streaming service drives home the point. The girl artist behind this slop got started around 2017. It got… Read more »

Whiskey
Whiskey
5 months ago

I wrote about this I think years ago. My take was that the decline was due to the lack of “enough” young White men and women to sustain the clubs that formed the JV for rock talent. What you had with the groups that made it in the 1980s was a bunch of clubs to play in. That started during High School, got serious after, and there was a whole ecosystem that depended upon having enough White people young enough to want to go to the clubs and listen/dance to the music. It was not rocket science and did not… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Whiskey
5 months ago

Along the same lines, I wonder how much raising the drinking age to 21 had to do with it. Happened early to mid 1980s. Around the same time white youth demographics took a nosedive. And roughly the same time music took a turn into the toilet.

john smyth
john smyth
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Oh, there were plenty of fake ids . . . at first. Long term, you probably correct to point out the upping the drinking age destroyed the rock scene. Also, as rock n roll parents started to take their 14 yr olds to rock camp, how cool can rock really be?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Whiskey
5 months ago

I believe you are right. Despite what you might have seen of the Brat Pack movies, women started becoming dangerous about that time. City women specifically. It was much safer to go with a large group of both sexes than it was to somehow end up in the company of just one and end up in a “he said, she said,” egged on by the new wave of feminists. That dynamic was much less away from cities, in some places, practically non-existent. While city boys were discovering that their music made both them and their women mopey and maudlin (lookin’… Read more »

Jannie
Jannie
Reply to  Whiskey
5 months ago

Young Whites go to country music clubs to dance these days. And country music – thanks to garth Brooks, that f*gg*t – has become corrupted by rock & pop’s worst habits.

Bwana Simba
Bwana Simba
Reply to  Whiskey
5 months ago

Do you have your own blog Whiskey? Always looking to add another blog to the reading list.

james wilson
james wilson
Member
5 months ago

Goethe observed that all genius was provincial. Original music in the 19th century was easlily identifiable by country, and so were performers. A great french violinist or singer was easily sorted from great artist in other locations. That is no longer true. We hear everything in the world from a young age and worse still there is vanishingly little local flavor to draw from.
Classical music was dead but 1950’s, ’60’s, maybe 70’s were the last drink from that straw for other forms of music. Homogenization is the opposite of provincialism. As we see spectacularly demonstrated in politics.

Mr. Blank
Member
5 months ago

It’s not so much that music that appeals to whites is no longer being created, but many of the artists who do create it are doing it very self-consciously and deliberately in order to be “retro.” One of the things I’ve discovered from listening to Spotify while at work is that no matter what genre of music you like, there are people out there who are still playing it. There is a whole subculture of bands out there still playing 1980s-style hair metal, for example, and a lot of the musicians doing it look young enough to be the grandkids… Read more »

LineInTheSand
LineInTheSand
Reply to  Mr. Blank
5 months ago

“It’s not so much that music that appeals to whites is no longer being created”

Consider the possibility that it was deliberately killed and replaced with hip hop. A small number of people determine what music gets promoted, which affects what is created.

The “Who Killed Rock?” post that Z Man linked to has a link to a video that explains it with an interview with an insider.

https://youtu.be/reesdiAbvk4

Fakeemail
Fakeemail
5 months ago

Steve Perry is my boy. His voice was like freakin Excalibur.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Fakeemail
5 months ago

“Mother Father” from Houston, November, 1981. Absolutely insane vocal control and range. Unfortunately, by the end of the Escape tour his voice started to get a little toasty and he never again had that immaculately clean register that he’d possessed through the Gregg Rollie years of Journey.

https://youtu.be/3kx24YtwPKA?si=K6mITmIhi4JzQPo0

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
5 months ago

Here’s a short theory of entertainment; ad IQ has fallen music has become more simple to play and to listen to. And as the industry has become more streamlined and managerial, they have formulas for “popular” songs. The combined effect is that they all sound more and more alike. This is even more pronounced in films where most are remakes or poor girl boss remakes. Bur the convergence on similar designs os also seen in cars, restaurants and many other products. The great corporate convergence where everything ends up looking like a shopping mall or airport or something that belongs… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 months ago

People used to call Soviet culture bland, soulless and ugly. True as far as it goes, I suppose, but the homogeneity and hideousness of GAE’s culture puts it in the shade.

Moran ya Simba
Moran ya Simba
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

The red madmen of the Kremlin never had the idea to move all of the third world into the Soviet Union or its satellites. There were limits to their madness. Limits that do not apply to our overlords.

We are run by certainly the most treacherous, and possibly the most evil, people in history

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

The new cookie cutter apartment blocks that have gone up in many American cities remind me a lot of Soviet apartment blocks.

Shrinking Violet
Shrinking Violet
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Yes, those things are everywhere! Even sleepy midwestern college towns. Who’s going to live in them? And the rents just keep going up too! it’s almost as if somebody important has a plan to transform society. nah, that’s crazy talk, right?

Bwana Simba
Bwana Simba
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

Corporatism is the end point of capitalism, and it turned out to be no better than communism in the long run. Perhaps we should go back to mercantilism or palace economics instead.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Moran ya Simba
5 months ago

I’ve heard that all the current crap by people like Swift and Cyrus is written by about 3 people. And soon it will all be AI

My Comment
My Comment
5 months ago

One of the foundational laws of life is the easiest way to improve your looks is to hang around ugly people. I think of that adage every time I hear some new rock, country or soul someone recommends. From the 30s through 80s young musicians and songwriters were surrounded by top rated talent whom they could learn from and compare themselves to. However now a mediocrity can sound like a genius compared to the norm. If you spend a lot of time listening to modern drek your standards slip. This is true not just for pop music but for classical… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  My Comment
5 months ago

That was what I thought about the popularity of the Top Gun sequel. It was appealing (to many) only compared with the utter trash that surrounded it. The buzz it got also convinced me that word of mouth on movies wasn’t reliable anymore.

My Comment
My Comment
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Before watching a movie, I like to read reviews on imdb. I find most entertainment now is way overrated so I pay attention to the negative reviews as well as the positive because they are usually more accurate. I find this especially true with restaurants. For example, I just moved back to the US from Thailand where I lived for years. All the Thai restaurants in my town have great reviews online. Nearly all the reviewers stress the authenticity of the Thai food. None of the restaurants cook food like in Thailand. My wife is a Thai chef and we… Read more »

Zaphod
Zaphod
Reply to  My Comment
5 months ago

My commiserations!

Landing in Bangkok tonight. Lunch at Somtam Nua tomorrow. Or perhaps Rad Na downstairs at Central Chidlom. Doncha hate me? 😀

Then Chiangmai next Wednesday for a week of Khaosoi excesses.

Can’t beat Thai food in Thailand but never trusted a restaurant review there either — having your national libel laws come under the criminal code *will* do things to the tenor and quality of reviews. Thai word of mouth though… can’t be beat. If they collectively decide a place is good then it’s great.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  My Comment
5 months ago

I was in NYC several years ago and my friend took me to a place out in Flushing that was getting rave reviews for its noodle dishes. Next to us while we were eating was a Chinese girl who was loudly complaining in Mandarin, “These are supposed to be good? I can get better noodles from a street vendor in China!”

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  My Comment
5 months ago

Agreed. Whenever I listen to modern pop music that somebody who really cares about music recommends to me ardently, my response is, “Well, that’s not too bad.” But does it compare to the pop music produced from 1965 thru 1988? Not only no, but hell no.

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

Those who speak Minnesotan say, “Well, that’s different.”

RealityRules
RealityRules
5 months ago

I think this is off a bit. Rock and metal didn’t die but with the rise of the Internet, things splintered off into niches and sub-genres that only hard core explorers are going to learn about. Meshuggah and Sikth invented “Djent” and Sikth in my opinion were the better of it. Those two bands inspired the vast panoply of “Djent”, bands. There are plenty of great guitar players who emerged in the past 10-15 years who are all coming from different angles: Plini; Andy James; James Richardson; Guthrie Govan; Tosin Abasi; Widek … … Bands are tougher to find because… Read more »

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  RealityRules
5 months ago

Hip Hop and Rap were about the worst thing to happen to modern youth. I live in Switzerland and this shit has even reached here. Funny to see rich white guys doing the walk and giving you the look. Ah, those awful Swiss ghettoes!

Hokkoda
Member
5 months ago

Folks, do me a favor before you go down the whole “rock is dead” path. Again. It’s an imperfect method, but just tell your phone to play the Rock station on your iPhone, or even the Alternative station. Just let it play while you work in the garage. Sure, there is some crap. Thus has it always been. But there is still great rock music being created and played. There’s this weird subculture that thinks the same 25 songs on their local classic rock station were the peak of music. Queen, AC/DC, Ozzy, and like two other bands. Wash, rinse,… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

Listening to guys shred on guitar was fun for about 20 years but eventually I wanted something different. Maybe that’s more about me than about them. But I don’t think it’s entirely about me. You said it yourself, the new guys are “shredding.” Well, so were the old guys. It’s about all you can do if you’re going to remain within the genre.

Hokkoda
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Shred is an instrument free term. There’s a lot of great rock out there.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

Which illustrates another problem with rock: there has been very, very little branching off from the basic 4 instruments of guitar, bass, keys, drums. If somebody was shredding on the oboe I would give it a listen but that doesn’t happen. Even horns have been very limited in the rock genre.

Some of that is just about money. Get too many players in the band, and nobody makes any.

Hokkoda
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

There’s definitely been a surge of “power duos” bands like The Black Keys and Royal Blood. They’re not really power duos…they have a small army of studio musicians. But it’s less money to share and fewer personalities to manage. There are bands that layer in synth or horns, but it’s expensive and it does start to bend the rock rules a bit. That’s where Prog and Alt rock came in and adult contemporary loves the sax. Royal Blood flirted with a very “Muse” synth dance club sound on Typhoons, but seem to be coming back to more straightforward power chord… Read more »

Hokkoda
Member
5 months ago

It’s important to separate mainstream pop from actual music. From a rock perspective, we’re just cycling back through another round of “rock is dead” before it comes back again. Plenty of great bands out there. Black Keys, GVF, Mammoth WVH, Cage the Elephant, etc. it’s a bit of a 70’s revival right now. We have our aging bands like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam still cranking out good material. Back in the 80’s it was Aerosmith or Rush. There’s always a lull as older bands die off until new ones emerge. Or the old ones reinvent themselves. I understand the… Read more »

NeoSpartan
NeoSpartan
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

I’m not one to shit on boomers, especially since my own generation is just as bad and probably worse BUT, there are some important things that many boomers seem to refuse to acknowledge about how the world has changed since they last paid attention to it and these cause a lot of discord between the generations. One thing, and this is pertinent to the theme of the article, is that boomers grew up in a time where culture was much more centralized. Everyone watched the same few television stations and the same few shows, listened to the same few songs.… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  NeoSpartan
5 months ago

“and we are envious of a generation who had it much easier than we did.” Did we really? Dad bought his first home at the age of 38. I was 35. My son just became a homeowner at age 26, though to be fair, his mom and I picked up half the down payment. His best friend, also age 26, is already on his second house, a very nice 4 bedroom, and did it without assistance from his parents. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m saying it never has been easy, with the possible exception of 2008 with the housing… Read more »

NeoSpartan
NeoSpartan
Reply to  Steve
5 months ago

Congratulations on your success. I think you missed the point entirely though. And proved it… How many 26 year olds do you really think on their 2nd house in the country right now? Dunno what that guy’s situation is, but he is doing better than 99% of the other 26 year olds. I don’t know his situation but I’d guess it’s highly likely his parents are very wealthy. Where I am, and it’s not a poor place… Most are spending over half their paycheck on splitting rent with roommates and interest on student loans. And if you’re white… gov’t and… Read more »

Bruno the Arrogant
Bruno the Arrogant
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

Technically, I suppose you could say rock isn’t dead, in the same sense you can say jazz isn’t dead, either. But jazz hasn’t ruled pop since the 50s, and rock hasn’t since the 90s.

True, there are still people around that play the stuff (including myself), but as a cultural force, both are fossils. The last time a rock album appeared in the year’s top 100 was 2021, when Ozzy Osbourne edged in at #99.

A few vestigal bands may still be hanging around, but there’s nothing pop about unpopularity.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Bruno the Arrogant
5 months ago

The problem is also that most things in rock that needed to be said have already been said. Even “good” modern rock bands are just standing on the shoulders of giants. It’s very hard to crank out anything truly original these days. Same with Jazz and even classical. It’s all been sung and played already.

Hokkoda
Member
Reply to  Robbo
5 months ago

ALL art forms go through this. It’s normal.

I see people lamenting that rock hasn’t been on the charts in 20 years. But I look back at when I was a teenager and rock was definitely on the decline and see bands like Poison riding the barrel over the falls.

Early 90’s alt rock put off the inevitable for a few years. But all art firms eventually fade.

All the garbage music Zman laments will have the same problem in a few years.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

Foo Fighters…?
Pearl Jam…?
Arghhh…!
Nooooo….!
(Neither were much more than tolerable in their prime- which is long past.)

Try:
The Beths…
Wyze Blood…
I could continue, but dare I say “Tin Ears?”

Hokkoda
Member
Reply to  rasqball
5 months ago

*sigh* being obscure doesn’t make you cool or interesting.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  rasqball
5 months ago

And therein lies another issue: a lot of even the great bands are left-wing wankers. That already makes their music unlistenable. Talking about you Springsteen and Young!

Gespenst
Gespenst
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

Can somebody define “Rock”?

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Gespenst
5 months ago

It’s what a democrat crawls out from under

Memebro
Memebro
5 months ago

There is only one contemporary “popular” rock group that’s worth a lick, and that’s Greta Van Fleet. I mean I won’t argue that there may not be a few more less well known groups, but they’re top dog in the genre that most people reading this post would enjoy.

https://youtu.be/Ee-rMRJCDkk?si=3GsG01bNsbj28y5-

Hokkoda
Member
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

Yep, I agree. To that I would add Cage the Elephant and The Black Keys.

My 17 year old daughter has GVF on her playlists and has really shown no musical interest in Led Zepplin or The Who. She just likes the music. Great rock is great rock.

Memebro
Memebro
Reply to  Hokkoda
5 months ago

I’ve heard them compared to Zeppelin, but I challenge you to also listen to Geddy Lee from Rush, and then listen to Josh Kiszka (GVF lead singer).

It is immensely obvious that their musical style was influenced by Rush.

Hokkoda
Member
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

In interviews he embraces all of the legacy, Rush too. But the guitar riffs are very Zepplin.

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

Modern music is awful, agreed, but maybe a hint of nostalgia is creeping in here. Geddy Lee? Jeez, who castrated that guy? Led Zeppelin? At least they kept all the nerds happy when I was a kid. Okay, let battle commence! 🙂

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

Greta Van Fleet von der Haus die Weiterentwicklung.
(Manufacturers are putting v-8 sounding vibes through speakers in e-cars these days…were you aware? )
A Les Paul and a Plexi, anyone?

Robbo
Robbo
Reply to  rasqball
5 months ago

I think kids today prefer Greta Von Thunberg

Jannie
Jannie
Reply to  Memebro
5 months ago

Nice, hugely Zeppy, kind of a gay image though.

Redpill Boomer
Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

I’ve long said that the last good music was made in the 1990s. Now I know why.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

There’s plenty of good music still. I follow over a thousand artists on Bandcamp. But the ’90s saw the last new-*sounding* music in the Western popular tradition (rock, jazz, folk, etc.), and novelty—not true avant-garde novelty but pleasant listener surprise—is the lure of “pop.” Most popular ’90s rock bands were kinda weird (and unpopular ones were often extremely so), nerds hunted down every alien sound a computer can make (and some put them in dance/industrial music so normies could experience them), and players found the limits of physical technique (annoying noise). Since then, not much of that sort of thing.… Read more »

ron west
ron west
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

Listen to some live Billy Strings. Best new music i’ve heard in decades. Their albums are good but live is where they really shine.

fakeemail
fakeemail
5 months ago

“(They Long to Be) Close to You” sticks out in my mind as of a world totally lost. (I’m an old school “Simpsons” fan)

Too white, too heartfelt and intelligent, too innocent. Of a world that is no more.

fakeemail
fakeemail
Reply to  fakeemail
5 months ago

similarly, think how good black music was back in the era of motown. J5, Supremes. . .black talent could really be great if kept “under control” in what was once a white nation.

mmack
mmack
5 months ago

Not much to add and plenty to reminisce but I’d blame the start of all this on Us Damned Gen-X’ers. Once music morphed from “Rock And Roll And Party All Night” to “Help Me Work Out My Issues Onstage” we were on the downslope. 😏 Like some other folks on here I remember guys in my social circle forming bands. There were some junior high friends of mine (thanks to town boundaries we went to different high schools) forming a band in high school. In their senior year of high school / freshman year of college they were good enough… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  mmack
5 months ago

Recently I was reading something about Elvis, and how before he got big, he honed his craft playing the “honky tonk circuit” in Texas and Arkansas. Does such a circuit even exist anymore? I don’t think it really does. Nowadays you put your stuff on spotify and youtube and people either click or they don’t.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Honky tonks in general are practically extinct. Kind of like tiki bars and supper clubs.

mmack
mmack
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

Ah but up in Wisconsin, aka “God’s Country”, you can find a supper club or two Yah Hey Dere You Betcha! And I’m not being ironic. We have friends that moved to Da Nort Woods of ‘Sconny and they eat at Honest to Goodness Supper Clubs and do Fish 🐟 Fries with Old Fashioneds every Friday You Betcha! (Although we had to explain OUTSIDE of Wisconsin Old Fashioneds are made with bourbon 🥃 and vermouth, not brandy and ginger ale. 🤢. And don’t get me started on Grasshoppers or Pink Squirrels.) And I have eaten in a Supper Club outside… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  mmack
5 months ago

Why do I feel as though I just had a convo with Frances McDormand in Fargo?

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Honky-tonks specifically, no. But bars with a decent stage and sound system that book live music? Heck, yes. If a band likes that kind of life, a half-ass manager can arrange it. He could book you pretty much non-stop June to August without leaving the Black Hills. It’s a little easier to do on the country circuit, which is why bands that prefer classic rock sound often add some modern country numbers, but they could tour without. Just probably not have a gig every day.

krustykurmudgeon
krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

the Louisiana hayride – it was a competitor for the grand ole opry in the early to mid 50s. Eventually the opry won out.

solo wing pixy
solo wing pixy
Member
Reply to  mmack
5 months ago

> Now, do kids and young adults even go to dive bars with cheap beer around their college to hear live music? In my experience in an SEC college town, no. Gen Z barely goes out drinking to begin with, and the ones who aren’t involved with the Greek scene tend to want sours and what they think are fancy cocktails. Meanwhile, the towns themselves have gentrified and become so expensive that no-name musicians can’t afford to live there and play much and dive bars that don’t cater to old dudes can’t afford the rent. Most of the musicians I… Read more »

Bruno the Arrogant
Bruno the Arrogant
Reply to  mmack
5 months ago

I played a few of those clubs myself, when I was younger. Chicago used to have a thriving club scene in the 80’s, there were always places to work. Being in a band was my generation’s equivalent of running away to join the circus.

Ploppy
Ploppy
5 months ago

Reading today’s post made me remember old Stephan Molyneux’s arguments for libertarianism. In their model of reality businesses could never EVER form a stable monopolistic cartel because supposedly the cost of hired goons to shut out the competition would make the business unprofitable as they would have to charge higher prices and thus make competition more lucrative. Of course in the empirical real world we see the literal fucking exact opposite. Every good or service that is profitable ends up being taken over by a cartel be it drugs, operating systems, music, phones, representative governments, streaming video service, everything. In… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ploppy
5 months ago

To be fair, though, Molyneux frequently pointed out that if allowed to, government force could and would overwhelm the more subtle effects of competition.

Napster didn’t go away because it was outcompeted. Massive wind turbines and solar arrays are not omnipresent because the free market “decided” they should. DMCA was called the Mickey Mouse law specifically because Disney wanted to extend the copyrights.

And most obviously to the DR, immigration isn’t happening because the market says so…

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Steve
5 months ago

Which is true, but he’s focusing on government as the only source of coercion, coercion being the fundamental flaw to any sort of libertarian society. They have never come up with any better solution than simply having your own guns to defend against the thugs, and when someone says “what about two thugs” then it’s “well you sign a mutual defense contract with your neighbors”, and so on and so on and before long you’re right back to your criminal insurance co-op thingie being a government that engages in coercion. Its like saying “I have the secret to immortality, just… Read more »

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Ploppy
5 months ago

I agree it’s idealistic. But how is the DR business model any more realistic?

1. Tribe Up.
2. ???
3. No more non-whites.

BTW, you are mischaracterizing libertarians. They mostly want to work within the system, same as you. Even more than many here. They at least still believe if they elect the right person, government will start respecting rights. It’s not until anarcho-capitalism that you get rid of government as a force, for good or evil. Historically, mostly for evil.

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Steve
5 months ago

It’s more like.

1. ???
2. Tribe up
3. No more non-whites

Since white people do all the useful work in society, if whites were to act as a cartel they would essentially hold a monopoly on competent workers. Everything in our current regime is fixated on preventing that from happening because the regime depends on taking a cut from the production of whites while redistributing that wealth to parasitic nonwhites.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Steve
5 months ago

OK, so fill in step 1. How specifically are you going to convince Democrats they should become “racists”? Heck, how are you going to convince more than a handful of Republicans?

At least it’s plausible that some elected official would do what he promised. Short of total nuclear war that vaporized the Ds and the Rs and left the DRs alone, I don’t see how the other is remotely plausible.

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Steve
5 months ago

Unfortuantely ??? is likely to be White people being subjected to conditions not unlike Palestinians in Gaza. Also the boomers need to die off so their civnat religion can go away.

steve w
steve w
5 months ago

Just got on board here. Feeling courageous, I linked to that Sexyy Red video. I got past the two minute mark when I’d seen enough. It sure isn’t Gladys Knight and the Pips. is it?

These blacks. My god they are truly hopeless. Our conquerors may hate white people, but they despise the blacks. Videos like this? Blacks owning their inferiority and pig ignorance? Sure, we whites are on the chopping block but no group among our new colonists are going to put up with this shit longer than expedient.

Tired Citizen
Tired Citizen
Reply to  steve w
5 months ago

As long as the juice supremacy remains, the worshiping of blackety black will not only continue, but it will intensify.

Redpill Boomer
Redpill Boomer
Reply to  steve w
5 months ago

Guys like BB King used to wear suits when they performed. They all had superb musical chops. Now not so much. Even early reggae with its laid-back stoner vibe is light years past the crap that blacks produce now.,

steve w
steve w
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

Lou Rawls. Man, what a voice. Going back, Ella Fitzgerald. Far from me to say that blacks cannot entertain us or fail to gain our respect, by staying in their lane: Dancing, music, sports, comedy. That’s about it. Give me Flip Wilson, Marilyn McCoo, and Wilt Chamberlain. Great Americans.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  steve w
5 months ago

Not long ago I remarked at a bar – loud enough that I could be heard by just ’bout everybody – “who remembers when africanamericans made a positive contribution to American Kultur?
😉
(Well, I’m in my mid-50’s…)

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
5 months ago

Since this is a music thread I thought I would plug a song I like. Anyone heard the song “goodbye girl” by David Gates?

I feel the song is great to listen to when things aren’t going your way. Music (among other things) these days may suck but it won’t forever.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
5 months ago

In my ongoing perusal of older movies that were nominated for academy awards, I recently had the misfortune to watch The Goodbye Girl, for which that was the theme song.

Plot: Bugman white knights for thirtysomething single mother with high body count. I hadn’t realized this particular kind of conditioning existed so far back (1977).

As I am finding out about a lot of other award nominated movies, it appeared to have been nominated only for the social agenda it was pushing, not for the quality of the work. Which in this case seemed to me mostly nonexistent.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

That was Dreyfuss, wasn’t it? Yeah, 90 minutes of my life wasted, too, and way too many neurons dedicated to it’s memory.

Redpill Boomer
Redpill Boomer
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
5 months ago

You mean David Gates of Bread? A total chick band and not in a good way.

krustykurmudgeon
krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

yeah. Bread was a chick band but you could say they were a precursor to stuff like the eagles or firefall.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
5 months ago

Ambrosia, too..

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  krustykurmudgeon
5 months ago

Contemporaries of Eagles (no definite article, thank you!), not precursors.

Tarl Cabot
Tarl Cabot
5 months ago

At the risk of opening myself up to ridicule, I always thought all the Nickelback hate had the look of a coordinated hit job. Sure, they were derivative, but no more so than any other band since 1970. It was catchy white testosterone rock, and the executive small hats decided we can’t have that, so they turned them into a joke.

Hemid
Hemid
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
5 months ago

A popular (on the internet) comedian, Brian Posehn, did a bit about them, literally making them a punchline. America hadn’t settled on a band to hate for having white loser fans (with pregnant teen hispanic girlfriends). It looked like the battle for the belt was between Creed and Insane Clown Posse, but Nickelback came in off the top rope. It might have been the first “Reddit meme,” the annunciation of the soy.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Tarl Cabot
5 months ago

Mon Dieu! C’est incroyable!

Mr. Burns
Mr. Burns
5 months ago

Music is like candy for your ears. At first it feels good. Then it gets old. Finally it is torture. Modern music to include rock is mostly gutter music. The lyrics drag the spirit down. Much of it should be burned in a bonfire.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Mr. Burns
5 months ago

“Much of it should be burned in a bonfire.”

You come by your username honestly…

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

‘Release the hounds…’

Brandon Laskow
Brandon Laskow
5 months ago

There are some excellent young guitarists out there. The brilliant bluegrass phenomenon Billy Strings, Daniel Donato of his band Daniel Donato’s Cosmic Country, the morbidly obese black blues-rock guitarist Christone “Kingfish” Ingram. Also Rick Mitarotonda of the fast-rising Connecticut jamband Goose, although their trajectory is delayed somewhat as they need to find a new drummer.

The death of rock music has been greatly exaggerated. Not so much at the arena level these days besides legacy acts but plenty happening in small clubs and theaters, which is a more enjoyable environment anyway for live music.

Xman
Xman
5 months ago

Eh. There has always been “managerialism” on pop music. The pop, and especially the country stars of the Sixties were to a large extent creations of producers and marketers. They’d take some hillbilly and put him in a Nudie suit and have him lip-sync on television to a recording with string sections and horns and call it “country” and the sold records that way by the millions. Rock as we knew it was largely a Boomer phenomenon and it was mostly about young guys trying to get attention so they could get a piece of ass. 90% of the classic… Read more »

Krustykurmudgeon
Krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Xman
5 months ago

I might add that feminization of society doesn’t necessarily kill rock music but it creates a different kind. Like I can imagine that the fans of pink Floyd were not super masculine (or at least compared to foghat or thin Lizzy fans)

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Krustykurmudgeon
5 months ago

Gawd, how I hate Pink Floyd. Almost as much as George Floyd.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

I always hated them back in my rock and roll days, in no small part because their stuff was so overplayed on FM radio I just got sick of hearing it over and over and over. (Kinda like Led Zeppelin — I want to vomit every time I hear the opening chords to “Stairway.”) But PF is growing on me now that I’m old (not that I go out of my way to listen to it). Some of their stuff was pretty thoughtful.

And Roger Waters appears to be redpilled on the JQ:

https://www.newsweek.com/pink-floyds-roger-waters-says-israeli-lobby-trying-cancel-him-1805156

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Xman
5 months ago

Well, good for Roger.

I’ll never come around to Floyd, but as I’ve gotten older I have come around to the Beach Boys and the Bee Gees, believe it or not.

Redpill Boomer
Redpill Boomer
Reply to  Xman
5 months ago

Imagine if the Powers that Be had attempted a “Lockdown” in the 1970s. Metal-heads, punks, and even R&B guys would have written defiant songs of protest. Nowadays, they’re all saying “take the jab.” Like those sickening phonies from Rage At the Machine. Even when those guys try to fight commercial exploitation, they cave very quickly.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

All those old rebels are now the establishment. And there are no new rebels except us. And I can’t play the guitar…

BigJimSportCamper
BigJimSportCamper
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

Foo Fighters. No jab, no concert. Jerkoffs,.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

The Premiere of Queensland (Peterson, I believe?) tried to “lock it down” back in the 70’s – result?
The Saints.
And I daresay that nobody on this board has ever heard “I’m Stranded”
Sigh…

Yle Watch blog from Finland
Yle Watch blog from Finland
Reply to  rasqball
5 months ago

RIP Chris Bailey.

Xman
Xman
Reply to  Redpill Boomer
5 months ago

Yeah. Ironically, the older I get the more I appreciate punk. I wasn’t into it at the time — I was a bit too young for the punk scene of the late 1970s, I think I was only 13 or so when Sid stabbed Nancy to death (my era was more 1980s hair metal). But now, looking back on it all, I appreciate what a giant “Fuck you” it all was to everything — the political establishment, the corporate music industry, the mainstream rock and roll industry. Sid wore a swastika armband on the streets of Paris only 30 years… Read more »

Yle Watch blog from Finland
Yle Watch blog from Finland
Reply to  Xman
5 months ago

Ian Stuart (Skrewdriver) did few unforgettable white identity anthems in the mid 80’s but (((media))) downplayed them.

miforest
miforest
5 months ago

and of course this is still there to instruct our masses how to treat their pale neighbors … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3eAMGXFw1o

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  miforest
5 months ago

Okay, I just listened to a few bars [or were they stanzas?] of “B!tch Better Have My Money”, and all I gotta say is…

Where be Stevie Wonder?
Where be Bill Withers?
Where be Quincy Jones?
Where be Berry Gordy & The Corporation?
Where be Ray Charles?
Where be Oscar Peterson?
Where be Nat King Cole?
Where be Thelonious Monk?
Where be Art Tatum?
Where be W. C. Handy?
Where be Scott Joplin?

Dutch Boy
Dutch Boy
Reply to  Bourbon
5 months ago

There’s a British singer named James Hunter who has a sound something like Sam Cooke (Hunter is white) and some excellent songs with thoughtful lyrics.

Vizzini
Member
5 months ago

There is a ton of great rock music being made of a wide variety of sub-genres, and it’s very active with all sorts of cross collaborations and experimentation. It’s just not coming out of the major record labels. It’s little indie groups and solo artists doing their own thing via YouTube.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Vizzini
5 months ago

Online streaming stations have somewhat become what pirate radio was to the U.K. many years ago. You can hear things that won’t make it into the popular culture or be heard on the radio. Even fairly mainstream apps like TuneIn have stations well worth a listen.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Vizzini
5 months ago

Vizzini: “There is a ton of great rock music being made”

Dubious: “URLs plz”

Vizzini
Member
Reply to  Bourbon
5 months ago

I know I can’t post very many URLs without getting spammed. Here’s one from a German band called d’Artagnan.

https://youtu.be/wW5prLBozTU?si=Xu2Gl2sD0Ms0HAaI

Check out Storm Seeker, Scardust, Patty Gurdy.

Also, mostly covers, but really good covers: Andrei Cerbu (mostly classic tunes), Leo Moracchioli (mostly metal, but metal covers of non-metal songs) — Frog Leg Studios.

It’s not hard to find stuff that is in different genres if none of those are your cup of tea.

Templar
Templar
Reply to  Vizzini
5 months ago

I stopped listening to D’artagnan after seeing the music video for “Tanz in May.”

Vizzini
Member
5 months ago

“This was the number one hip-hop song last year”

If you follow the link and look at the comments to the video, almost all of them are mocking the song and the “artist.” This indicates to me that the music business is entirely fake and gay and the designation of “#1” has no connection to what people actually like or listen to.

Epaminondas
Member
5 months ago

Just relax and learn to love civilization. Pop music was always ephemeral…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_h2PBVICo&list=PL-179qFBDgexkmnfDw8JTiJG14or5hvT3

Dutch Boy
Dutch Boy
Reply to  Epaminondas
5 months ago

I have a gigantic collection of classical music that I listen to daily. It is a civilization bath.

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
5 months ago

Great take on this Z! As a guy who picked up the guitar in the heady hay day of rock / metal in the early 80’s, where guitar playing was taken to mind bending levels of virtuosity with the likes of Van Halen, Steve Vai, Yngie Malmsteem, George Lynch etc… The decline in musicianship in pop rock is mind boggling. With grunge and Indie rock hitting the scene in the 90’s, quality musicianship was a no no, and “uncool.” I think this also parallels the society wide decline in excellence in anything. Everything is boiled down to the lowest common… Read more »

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

I like being in HIIT classes with white women, and having the hip-hop track play with lyrics about keeping yo-bit ches in line, and far worse, and they just go right along with it without missing a beat. If it was a white male voice singing those exact lyrics they would pause and about 10 of them would have a “I would like to speak to the manager” Karen moment.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  JR Wirth
5 months ago

One of blackness’ many “benefits” is it gives you a free pass on rampant misogyny.

Lindsay Hamill
Lindsay Hamill
Reply to  JR Wirth
5 months ago

White men simply cannot compete with Black men in sex appeal.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  Lindsay Hamill
5 months ago

Do we have a coal burner in the crowd, today?

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  KGB
5 months ago

More like a troll burner.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Lindsay Hamill
5 months ago

Only for women who are into bestiality.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Lindsay Hamill
5 months ago

For the wanton animalistic rape fantasy side of the woman’s psyche, that’s probably true

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  JR Wirth
5 months ago

Why would you take exercise classes with broads? (And exercise classes are by definition a soup-to-nuts chick scene, so…?)
Go run your local hill – 10 push ups, repeat, ad infinitum.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

There’s some chart evidence that rap has peaked and begun its decline, unfortunately not precipitously. My guess is it’s about where rock was in the mid 80s, just waiting to be overtaken. By what, I couldn’t say, but given the current “culture,” you’d think it would have to be something that negros were capable of producing.

I remember watching Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, with Gil Gerard and Erin Gray, and the music that people enjoyed and danced to was all computer generated. How silly, I thought, that would never happen.

Dutch Boy
Dutch Boy
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Maybe Latin music. A lot of the dance music at clubs now is salsa/bachata (I live in California and most young people are Hispanic).

Brandon Laskow
Brandon Laskow
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

For a newer male country artist give Sturgill Simpson a try.

Bourbon
Bourbon
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

Vinnyvette: “guitar playing was taken to mind bending levels of virtuosity with the likes of Van Halen”

JANUARY 24, 2024

(((David Lee Roth))) Fires Shots at Wolfgang Van Halen: ‘This F-ckin’ Kid’

“…(((Roth))) repeatedly calls Wolfgang “this fuckin’ kid,” as well as a “schlemiel” [“fool” in Yiddish], mocks him for benefiting from nepotism, and gripes about Wolfgang allegedly ordering the removal of an accountant from a backstage area after supposedly mistaking her for (((Roth)))’s girlfriend…”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/david-lee-roth-wolfgang-van-halen-youtube-attacks-1234953442/

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  Bourbon
5 months ago

I love DLR, but stuffing his foot in his mouth is just Dave being Dave.
Wolfgang although not in Eddies league is a talent in his own right.
That said caught DLR on Rogan a few times, and he’s a pretty informed guy, not as dumb as he comes off.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

“A talent in his own right…?”
Jeepers!

Brandon Laskow
Brandon Laskow
Reply to  Bourbon
5 months ago

Now that’s some serious Jew obsession. Not one, not two, but three triple parentheses, in case you didn’t get it the first or second time.

JMSinNorCal
JMSinNorCal
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

For country try Tyler Childers. I think he’s up there with Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash, etc. YMMV. Also Nathaniel Rateliff and the Night Sweats.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  JMSinNorCal
5 months ago

I’ll admit, I do kind of like Jamie Johnson. And there’s a guy named Joe Nichols who’s not bad.

Meme Doctor
Meme Doctor
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

I totally agree that nearly all pop music these days should go straight to the garbage disposal. But instead of (or besides) complaining, those who care for skilled musicianship would do themselves a favor by listening to jazz or classical. There has been no degradation of playing standards in those genres.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Meme Doctor
5 months ago

Not yet, perhaps, but the DIE people are getting their meathooks into classical performance and programming. If they get their way, classical music will indeed DIE.

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

They have already seriously compromised WQXR, NYC: historically one of the premiere “entities” of classical music.
I believe that Terrance McNight is live as I write this.)

right2remainviolent
right2remainviolent
5 months ago

Out of morbid curiosity, I had to click your links and those are some of the worst ‘songs’ I’ve ever heard…but then again I’m a death metal fan.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  right2remainviolent
5 months ago

No way in hell I was gonna go there. Never click the links!

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
5 months ago

You can tell the state of the country when you have Dolly Parton singing in a Cowgirl’s uniform at the Thanksgiving NFL game, clutching onto a dividing wall for balance, and then a gushing of support afterwards “isn’t she sweet?….She’s still got it!…..Go granny go!…She looks terrific.” Just like with Biden, I could smell the nursing home urine through the screen. Not only is our culture a living wax museum. We have to lie to ourselves every day that “we’ve still got it.” It’s always 1983. Except it’s not. A pathetic monstrosity of a country creaking along on its own… Read more »

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  JR Wirth
5 months ago

“Not only is our culture a living wax museum. We have to lie to ourselves every day that “we’ve still got it.” It’s always 1983.”

Well said.

And aren’t wax museums inherently creepy?

How many horror movies have played on that?

Eloi
Eloi
5 months ago

Forgive the longer post. I am younger end here (30s), and I am around youths all day. I know modern music and despise it. I am also a passionate musician (as a hobby). I have thought a great deal about this subject, and indulge my expansion of some of the blindspots in Z’s assessments. First, I agree with most of your points. There are modern guitar heroes, such as Tim Henson and Guthrie Govan, but they are so technical that the beauty, for me, is lost. They are incredible, but they do not resonate with the humanity of errors and… Read more »

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  Eloi
5 months ago

The thing about guys like Govan and Henson is the 80’s guitars gods were not all technical wizardry, there was a lot of feel and soul within “the shred.” EVH’s solo on Right Now, George Lynch’s solo on Allone again, Reb Beach on
Headed for a heart break, Steve Vai’s For the Love of God, Anything Satriani… Just a few examples of great feel, vibrato, and emotion and expression within “the shred.”

vinnyvette
vinnyvette
Reply to  Eloi
5 months ago

I have three twenty something sons, one is a Berkeley Music grad who started playing the stuff I like that he wanted to learn, 80’s – 90’s metal and classic rock, and got heavy into jazz guitar in high school.
All my kids are into pre 90’s music, because they think the new stuff sucks, like yourself.
Yes some millennials have good taste in music. Good to see.

My Comment
My Comment
Reply to  Eloi
5 months ago

You raise some very good points especially how cell phones and computers have taken over the lives of young males. I know a teenager who is very talented musically and artistically. He can read a piece of classical music once and play it perfectly. He is also excellent at drawing but he doesn’t develop those talents because he gets such an emotional rush with his cell phone and computer. He is just one example. With my son and step son, I have spent considerable time introducing them to music from different eras (including classical), art, and movies. None of their… Read more »

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Eloi
5 months ago

“Taste is the results of habit.” …taste is alas, also, a manifestation of “Soul.” “Even Blackbird was McCartney and Harrison’s attempt to play a piece by Bach.” Harrison had nothing to do with it, and Bach had less – it was a “tone exercise” on guitar that Sir Macca welded to an absolutely extraordinary melody and universally adored poetic, but cryptic lyrics. The melody: maybe not Bach, but definitely Ellington! “What is unique today, then, is the complete severance from the past. The fact that youth do not like the music is one thing; their ignorance is unique.” The were… Read more »

Eloi
Eloi
Reply to  rasqball
5 months ago

We are creatures of habit. You grow soul. Blackbird in its early stage was a filler part for a Bach piece that both worked on at parties, etc. There was a section they could not figure out, and the filler they played was the genesis. Finishing was McCartney alone. Gypsy was what we played last night, as a fact, not an hypothetical. If I were to go Velvets, I would go plenty others. You smell yourself.

JR Wirth
JR Wirth
5 months ago

This is why I no longer subscribe to Sirius and haven’t for a long time. Some of my rentals have had it. I’ll usually go to the Tom Petty station, but there’s something so weird having Tom Petty DJ between songs now that he’s dead. I’ll sit there at a signal light, listening to a dead man telling me about his songs. There’s nothing uncommon about having dead people promote things. Billy Mays was on TV for awhile before his stroke. But when it come to some intimate, radio DJ setting, it’s driven home. I say “thank you very much… Read more »

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Just yesterday, I was at the dentist’s office thinking about this very thing. Because in the waiting room, there was piped in music which was all “classic rock,” The Eagles, Elton John etc., none of it any newer than 1980. Half a century. And I was sitting there wondering if in another half a century they will still be playing the same music in the dentist office. And I was thinking probably so. The most likely alternative, that they will be playing “classic rap,” is too horrible to contemplate. Aside from the valid points about corporatism and cultural decline, about… Read more »

3 Pipe Problem
3 Pipe Problem
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

That 40 year span for Rock is accurate. While not his greatest fan, I recall reading and agreeing with one Rock music critic who labeled Neil Young’s “Powderfinger,” as the dirge for the the end of the Rock Era. That was 1979, from Rust Never Sleeps. I’ve heard little to convince me otherwise.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  3 Pipe Problem
5 months ago

It was truly wonderful while it lasted but nothing is forever. However, one could say that we wouldn’t have rap without rock coming first. Rock had to pave the way for it. As much as I have enjoyed a lot of rock music, it’s hard to make the case that it was really a cultural step forward.

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

There is nothing limiting about rock as a platform. Rock went from rockabilly, in the 50’s, a mix of country, and blues, pier pop in the early 60’s, acid / psychedelic, bluesy rock in the late 60’s, proto metal in the early 70’s Sabbath, Zepplin, Deep Purple etc, country rock, skynard, Allman Brothers etc, soft rock mid late 70’s, Rock morphed into full blown metal / pop metal early 80’s, Grunge / Indie in the 90’s and so on.
Not a damn thing limiting about it. It’s always evolving.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

Was always evolving. I noticed you didn’t mention anything past the early 90s

Vinnyvette
Vinnyvette
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Because it mostly sucks… Per the Zman

Meme Doctor
Meme Doctor
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

Well, there it is: evolving isn’t the same as improving. As a musical style ages, it often degrades: subject to more extreme expressionism by players desperate to stand out from the crowd and the large existing repertoire. Grunge and “alternative” could be described as rock, but had little connection with the spirit of rock’s early years. I don’t think many would describe rap and hip-hop as forms of rock music, even if the instrumentation is mostly the same. We’ll always have revivals of the popular music of earlier eras — and why not? — but we may as well admit… Read more »

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  Vinnyvette
5 months ago

The Beths – Auckland, NZ

Wyze Blood – FlanneryOconnerville, USA

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

“…in the waiting room, there was piped in music which was all “classic rock,” The Eagles, Elton John etc., none of it any newer than 1980. Half a century. And I was sitting there wondering if in another half a century they will still be playing the same music in the dentist office.” When I am at the dentist’s office these days I sit there wondering whether there will be dentist offices half a century from now. Seriously. But your point is spot on: pop culture is dead. Taken over by the corporations, it is and must remain anodyne and… Read more »

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  pantoufle
5 months ago

Sometimes I wonder: is there in fact a grassroots music scene we are all missing?

What happened to College Radio and all those quirky bands?

Or is there something even deeper underground?

It hardly seems likely. As Zman said, the garage bands are gone.

Garage Band is now only an Apple app.

I like how this essay ties this pop culture ossification into End of Empire.

Wouldn’t it be funny if a new fresh kind of pop music suddenly pops up in … Russia. Or China? Or India or Brazil?

Or has modernity rotted culture world-wide?

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  pantoufle
5 months ago

The video games are just too good now. I can understand how young folks go in there and don’t come back out.

KGB
KGB
Reply to  pantoufle
5 months ago

Colleges are the last place you should go if you’re looking for free expression and creativity.

john smyth
john smyth
Reply to  KGB
5 months ago

Even back in the day it was problem . . . try to start up an indie station only to see the SGA and frat pukes take it over

rasqball
rasqball
Reply to  pantoufle
5 months ago

Or has modernity rotted culture world-wide?
Da…Humanity, alas, doesn’t digitize well, and that’s what we’re…

Good ol' Rebel
Good ol' Rebel
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Hah. You think we’ll still have dentists offices in 50 years. Havent you seen the serious academic prediction model in film format, “Idiocracy?”

Oswald Spengler
Oswald Spengler
Reply to  Good ol' Rebel
5 months ago

There will still be dentists in our future idiocracy. They’ll just have IQs of 85 and will recommend that you gargle twice daily with Brawndo, ‘cos it’s got what teeth crave, bro.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Have you any idea the number of musical permutations available merely in the pentatonic scale? When one considers chords, the length of given notes, and orchestration, they are almost inconceivably vast. Rock is not musically exhausted, not even close. Other factors are responsible for its death.

Jeffrey Zoar
Jeffrey Zoar
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

As I was saying, if you wander too far off in those “permutations,” then pretty quickly it’s not “rock” anymore. It becomes something else. This is even more true rhythmically, which is the aspect in which the rock genre is most restrictive. So it becomes a question of what permutations will fit into the defined and restrictive rock rhythms. The limit of which was reached some decades ago.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Even when we control for rhythmic restriction, and even the number of musicians and instruments, the melodic and harmonic possibilities are still mindboggling. If rock began to sound like much of a muchness–and I agree it did–we can chock that up to a failure of creativity (and corporate control) rather than to the exhaustion of the genre.

Steve
Steve
Reply to  Jeffrey Zoar
5 months ago

Another thing that plays a HUGE part in this is session musicians. I have kin who do session work in Nashville on the side. The producer will tell the session guitarist all he needs to know with just, “Basic fast country, 1-4-3-4.” Often they won’t even have to hear the track first. Just improvise along using the Nashville Numbers. Record a half dozen takes until and comp it at mixing. But this ease of production has the effect of turning all the music into more or less the same song. There are only so many ways to arrange chords in… Read more »

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
5 months ago

In the years 1986 thru 1991, virtually every time I got paid, I went down to a place called the Sound Warehouse and purchased a pop music record or CD. Alas, along about 1992, the pop music scene had detriorated to such an extent that I found myself wandering through Sound Warehouse and seeing nothing I was even remotely interested in buying. In March of that year I switched to classical music–and to a lesser extent, jazz–and haven’t listened to any pop music since. From what I have haphazardly heard, however, I can see that pop “music” has only gotten… Read more »

Ploppy
Ploppy
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

I think everything with music went to hell after the jazz era, that really seemed to be the transition from complex music to simplistic pop music that more resembled the folk music of peasants. Big band, rock and roll, and hippie folk music can be enjoyable to listen to, but they all have very simple chord progression and melodies. Contemporary stuff is even more simplistic, I’m pretty sure there’s a current pop song (I think it’s that British girl that looks like she doesn’t bathe) where the melody doesn’t actually change pitch at any point.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Ploppy
5 months ago

“I think it’s that British girl that looks like she doesn’t bathe”

Dude, you’re gonna have to narrow it down for us a bit!

Kesington Ave Zombie
Kesington Ave Zombie
Reply to  Ostei Kozelskii
5 months ago

Okay,street pooper.

John Perry
John Perry
Member
5 months ago

I hate that I live in a world where Cardi B is famous and Imelda May is not.

Karl Horst (Germany)
Karl Horst (Germany)
5 months ago

I think this YouTube video by Michael Noland sums it up quite well…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e73lP4FrU0A&ab_channel=MichaelNoland%3ATheBottomLine

imbroglio
imbroglio
5 months ago

Luke Combs is covering Tracy Chapman. Doesn’t count.

Until recently, “Lovin’ Feeling” was the most frequently played country song on A.M. radio. There’s a quaint term “A.M. radio.”

If only the Superbowl were still a football game, it might be worth enduring the half time shows. The Superbowl ended when they launched Lady Gaga into space five years ago. Neither she nor the Superbowl have returned.

Dicky
Dicky
5 months ago

I’ve got to disagree somewhat. The record labels have definitely stopped producing quality material, but they’re a dead market. Recording studios have been killing the golden goose since their inception and many artists have finally woken up to it. There is a thriving independent music scene, particularly on platforms like Youtube and Spotify. Thousands of independent artists and bands are creating exceptional new music every day. Bands like Lick Creek Country band, The Barlow, Turnpike Troubadours, and Mike and the Moonpies have built a country scene away from Nashville that is every bit as professional, but lacks the pandering. Whiskey… Read more »

krustykurmudgeon
krustykurmudgeon
Reply to  Dicky
5 months ago

It’s hard to know if this song would be a hit if it was promoted enough. But this song is fairly recent (2020) and has a cool ethereal sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rz-OvZ8rnw

KingKong
KingKong
5 months ago

“The main difference with the American empire and prior empires is speed due to the state of technology.”

Is this really true? I think John Glubb pointed out empires tend to live for 250 years. If I recall correctly, he included the Roman Republic in his analysis (surviving for 250 years) and the Roman Empire (stretching it out for another 250 years).

I could be wrong in remembering.

Anyway, we’re almost at the 250 year mark starting from 1776. Only two more years left, let’s see if Glubb’s thesis holds true for the US as well.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  KingKong
5 months ago

The Western Roman Empire survived close to five centuries, and the Eastern Roman Empire close to a thousand years more. But, in general, it may well be the case that empires don’t last all that long. Of course, much depends upon how one defines empire, too.

pantouf
pantouf
Reply to  KingKong
5 months ago

Ah, but as Zman correctly noted, the republic died at Gettysburg, and the Empire was born.

So there should be quite a ways to go to meet Glubb’s rule.

But we all see that the GAE is swiftly coming to its end. So yes, the process in this age is accelerated.

sentry
sentry
5 months ago

you know your society is fucked when it can’t even produce britney spears level pop stars.

i’m firmly convinced that if a society reaches a certain point of moral corruption then all talent dissipates or gets turned on its head and produces abominations.

but not all hope is lost, after weimer came national socialist party, after lenin came stalin, we should never forget that, the tribe sure hasn’t.

Jack Boniface
Jack Boniface
Member
5 months ago

Classical also has withered. The last composer worth listening to, and still being played on the radio stations, was Shostakovich in 1975. And classical is global, including the Asians you mentioned. It’s still big in Europe and China and Japan and Korea. So there has to be something deeper to all this decline. The Catholic Church also used to incubate great music based on the Latin Mass, such as Beethoven’s Missa Solemnis. But since the Novus Ordo vernacular was imposed in 1970, all we get is treacle hymns. Not just the GAE, but the whole global civilization is tired.

Ostei Kozelskii
Member
Reply to  Jack Boniface
5 months ago

Classical music composition requires much intellectual horsepower. Such powerful minds are becoming scarcer and scarcer. There are doubtless many other reasons classical composition has withered, but general cognitive decline is, I believe, one of them.

pantoufle
pantoufle
Reply to  Jack Boniface
5 months ago

Cripes I have gone to some masses the last few years, exploring a return to expressing faith in a more formal way. The hymns they sing in the NO just … disgust me. They are aesthetically offensive. “Treacle” is right.

I was a kid when they brought in the NO and soon it was guitars and catchy tunes and those stupid folksy banners. Without knowing quite why, I hated it.

Curious to hear what they do musically in a TLM.

Ganderson
Ganderson
Reply to  pantoufle
5 months ago

The bad music people have taken over the Church.

Marty Haugen and his ilk have much to answer for

Jannie
Jannie
Reply to  Jack Boniface
5 months ago

You’ll probably hate me for saying this, but John Williams is going to be remembered as one of the great classical composers after his death. In fact, if he were Jewish, Black, female, queer, Hawaiian Islander, or any kind of minority he would have already been elevated above Beethoven and Mozart.
He isn’t taken as seriously now because of his cinematic output/associatios, but to paraphrase Yoda:

“He will be. HE WILL BE.”

Compsci
Compsci
5 months ago

“ They allowed corporate players to monopolize radio stations, which coincided with the consolidation of the music business. ” That coupled with record companies monopolizing music distribution through onerous contracts with young performers. Perhaps a lesson to be taken from Asia. Years ago, when record companies started going down hard on protecting copyrighted material distribution, our university got many cease and desist complaints from such company’s henchmen. We of course were required by our attorneys to search for these culprits using our computer accounts and eliminate them. During one of these forays, I discovered an Asian student with a huge… Read more »