The Positive Alternative

One of the predictable things about left-wing political theater is they will always heroically go to war with the problem they created. After liberally applying the front lash, they then predict a backlash and begin to make war on it. They are like the arsonist-fireman, heroically battling the fires he set. The latest example is over the “colored revolution” sponsored by the usual suspects around the Occident. In the UK, they worry this may have given a boost to Right.

Apparently, the extreme Left in the UK has noticed that the native population not only opposes mass immigration, but now they oppose those ungrateful immigrants rioting in the streets and attacking their hosts. The daily lectures on white privilege and the crimes and the English people have not had the intended effect. Instead of committing suicide to make way for more foreigners, many Brits are starting to think of their ethnic and national interests, like everyone else.

Familiar to Americans is the way the Left manufacturers its own evidence to wave around in support of its claims. Hope Not Hate is the British version of the ADL, backed by the same sorts of people. Their main job is to make up wild tales about secret invisible Hitler clubs that the media can then use in their scare stories. These claims are also used to raise money from the gullible and cynical. It’s how the blood libel against white people is done in liberal democracy.

That said, Patriotic Alternative is experiencing a surge in interest, but not for the reasons claimed by the anti-whites. Instead of “becoming more extreme” they have moderated their tone. Like the US, the UK scene has been plagued by the weirdo problem, which in their case is more like a hooligan problem. Nationalist politics was more like a rowdy working-class pub than a political movement. As a result, it was always plagued by ugly images the Left could exploit.

To remedy this, Patriotic Alternative has imposed strict rules of conduct on its members and has been very clear about it. Mark Collett, the head of PA, has even booted a longtime friend from his group, when that friend could not behave himself. Their events are family friendly, designed to build community among members. Instead of meeting in a pub, they have a gathering at a park. They organize camping trips and paintball tournaments that are intended to build friendships.

One result of this approach is it is attracting a better class of person. The street brawlers are not interested in camping trips. The middle-class person worried about the future of their children is interested in that sort of activity. Initially they may not agree with everything they are hearing, but they are willing to listen, because the people they see are like their neighbors and coworkers. In fact, they may be moving into this type of politics because of their neighbors and coworkers.

It is a good example of how effective politics starts with engaging people where they are rather than where you want them to be. Like the US, UK activists have often positioned themselves way outside the main, making it impossible for them to engage with the typical Brit on their own terms. Bad optics also makes it easy for the Left to exaggerate the distance between the typical Brit and the activists. By closing that gap, PA is able to reach a much broader audience.

This is why left-wing terrorist groups like Hope Not Hate are in a panic. It is really hard for them to demonize someone like Laura Towler. When the person behind the “Migrants Not Welcome” projection on the cliffs of Dover is a woman who likes to talk about tea and her wedding plans, it is impossible to portray the movement as a bunch of beer swilling street brawlers. The Left fears Patriotic Alternative because their old tricks are not going to work on these guys.

Even Mark Collett, to be candid, has transformed himself into a good example of how to conduct pro-white politics in the modern age. He has a colorful past, where he went down the same old lonely road that many nationalist activists have gone down both in the US and the UK. Having learned from that, now a middle-aged father, he is a good redemption story, as well as a spokesman for the cause. Normal people can relate to a man who has grown into his role.

Probably the best thing that PA has done is shift from a negative message to a more positive one based in the interests of native Brits. Instead of railing against Muslims like a Tommy Robinson, or spending endless hours talking about the wood used at German prison camps in WWII, PA talks about what is best from native Brits. All of those other groups are going to do what they do. What matters, what will determine the future, is what the native Brits do to preserve themselves.

Patriotic Alternative is a good example for American activists. The US has different challenges and a different history. Southern activists will have different concerns and different cultural issues than activists in the Northwest. You really cannot speak on behalf of “Native Americans” in the way you speak of “Native Brits.” Even so, the positive message is always the better approach, because it always draws a better crowd, which in turn makes the message more appealing.

Note: The good folks at Alaska Chaga are offering a ten percent discount to readers of this site. You just click on the this link and they take care of the rest. About a year ago they sent me some of their stuff. Up until that point, I had never heard of chaga, but I gave a try and it is very good. It is like a tea, but it has a milder flavor. It’s hot here in Lagos, so I’ve been drinking it cold. It is a great summer beverage.

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280 thoughts on “The Positive Alternative

  1. Another thing is that PA is explicitly focused on Christianity, and a Christian moral standard. I keep seeing pro-white activists say things like “Islam is right about women,” or they try to claim that Paganism is the way forwards, but a shared unironic belief in Jesus is what really binds people together. That, AND it provides a standard the group must abide by, to avoid what you call the Weirdo Problem.

  2. I’m late to the comment-party here, but it’s striking how everyone—even ostensibly Zman—is hitting around the answer to the conundrum, but not specifically referencing it. The solution has already been laid out by Zman, and it is exactly what Mark Collett is doing in England, i.e. a passive ethno-nationalism organized around group identity and rights.” (The only quibble I have is that I’d call it “a non-aggressive ethno-nationalism” rather than “passive.”)

    • Passive people get annhilated in times like these. Non aggressive reasoning, please. Blood and Tribe.

    • Go around saying non-aggressive entho-nationalism and you’ll lose your listener after the third syllable.

  3. Since it’s a slow weekend, I’ll post this silly email from a relative. All he does is watch CNN:

    “What an SOB. !!!!!. Now there is no doubt; he is a despicable individual with no character. And he is the president of the US? !!!! Im convinced his idiotic comments about POWs reflects some sort of illness, for sure. If there were people on the fence, there should no longer be a doubt they will make up their minds. But this is not entirely so…….look at these people on the Jersey shores with their boats, etc. celebrating Trump.

    A lot of people in this country are f*cked up, like big time.

    NOTE. I hope there is a strong follow up by serious journalist with Blue credentials, and friends, to get the story up and running non-stop about the truth of the Atlantic’s article.

    Respond to what I’ve just said.”

  4. TomA: “applaud Z’s wise council on building grassroots unity and hope his political initiative succeeds. But in the event it doesn’t, not having a Plan B is even stupider than recruiting sociopaths. If the house is on fire, you’re not going to put it out by throwing a glass full of water at it over and over…

    Z: “This is Plan B. Plan A was to win in the domain of politics. After fifty years, it is clear the battle is lost…”

    (That was funny. Funny little black pill.)

  5. We might not be able to speak of “native Americans”, but we can speak of “heritage Americans”, which includes American blacks to the extent that they want to be included.

  6. Europeans will always have an easier time of nationalizing than Americans simply because it’s obvious who is, and who isn’t French, British, German, French, etc. Believe me when I say no one thinks a Turk with a German passport is “German” anymore than an Indian with a British accent is “English”.

    Looking back in history, the Second World War was probably the greatest single factor for polarizing your country in a good way. Americans were patriotic and proud of what they had accomplished.

    But after the disasters in Korea and Viet-Nam America resorted to division and diversity during the 1960’s and into the early 1970’s.

    Then you had the twin tower attacks of 9/11 and again, Americans across all demographics rallied around the flag. Now, nearly 20-years later, the divisions in your country are greater than ever.

    Why does it seem to us that Americans always need some sort of national tragedy, or a war, to feel connected to each other?

  7. The spectre of the sociopathic wignat is a straw man in many ways – its own kind of cartoon devil of the kind Z ascribes to the Left here many days.No one with any influence in dissident politics anymore fits the mold. The guys who did have been co-opted or simply faded away. Counter-signaling a hauntology is what shitlibs do.

    Mark Collett hasn’t disavowed his past or changed his politics in any way as his recent interview with Mike Enoch showed – and Mark’s siding with Enoch despite co-host No White Guilt’s concern-trolling is telling.

    Z recommends salesmanship and selling a product as good skill and mind-sets for dissidents in his comments above.

    There’s a nugget of half-truth in that but cynically treating our politics like selling soap is how dissidents get co-opted. I don’t trust activists with merchant souls i.e. the alt-Lite.

    The Tea Party fell victim to the consultant class salespeople who had no regard for the authenticity of the movement – the guys who loooked on the genuine passion, outrage and dedication of the grassroots as naive bumpkin affections,

    Tactical cynicism has its place but spiritual cynicism is a trap too many have fallen into.

    Let’s not lose our souls in a maze of optical prisms.

    Don’t forget or betray what got us here in the rush to climb Yacob’s ladder.

  8. Pingback: It’s certainly all theatre. Question is – whose? – Orphans of Liberty

  9. As usual, excellent but then the error in auto-taking Mark C’s and Laura’s side. There’s much going on over here, Z Man and you can’t be expected to know all about the UK alt scene, the ins and outs. You’re still the goods though, hence the following.

  10. Tarkasnas: “These days Mark Collet is always careful to look good, but the second the papers need to make his group look like psychos, they’ll just drag out these past events.” This is a common defeatist type statement on our side. It assumes that all the Powers That Be have to do is present a stimulus and they will get a desired response. But most of the populous just thinks, “yeah? so what?” Especially working class Brits who will always be the meanest most cynical bastards on earth. “So fookin’ wah!”

  11. I’ll take the beer swilling headbangers anyday, The time for being nice and cozy is long gone, fuck em, let the dust settle where it should.

  12. Good post.

    Looking at the comments thread what’s interesting to note how many wannabe Natsocs and Nazi larpers are still infecting the threads. How many of these are real and how many of these are plants I do not know, but the reality is the weirdo problem is one that has to be dealt with.
    Right now, antifa and BLM are the biggest recruiting agents for the Right and numbers are increasing, the problem is how to stop the Right from self-destructing and that’s going to require some ideological policing.
    I agree that nice people, having picnics and doing normal things, are great optics and will pull more people in, but here is the problem: It was such a “nice” society that bred the current one. i.e. what needs to be purged are the self-destructive tendencies of the “nice society”.
    The Right can do many things at once, but the one of the major things its should be doing at the moment is “failure” analysis. i.e. where it all went wrong.
    Seriously, I’d start with Whittaker Chambers, he saw the problems from miles away but no one listened.

    • ” It was such a “nice” society that bred the current one. i.e. what needs to be purged are the self-destructive tendencies of the “nice society”. Well put. The “nice” gatekeepers need to be vetted as much as the goon larpers. Optics do matter. How much? Who the hell knows? I’m pissed that we’ve been beaten down so bad that we even have to argue about freaking optics.

      • We don’t control the media and don’t even have the philosophical drive to force the media to comply with our will so Optics Matter.
        Our problem is if anything a lack of authoritarianism. We are so damaged from our society that we don’t have the ability to state clearly “We are going to reform marriage so that people can have families” and Gods help us if we get into economics.
        We can get past all that but until we do, low and slow.

    • Really? Evil Nazis and protecting property is that all you got?
      Recruiting whom? I just check out social media and white people with BLM sign fill with their virtue signaling post
      Left have your rhetoric and its look more cool

      Red, Right, GOP, whatever you call it, it just Zion of matrix
      Trap for white people to be slaughter
      Wannabe Natsocs and Nazi are only existing in your head, here’s healthy people just want to avoid a human form of COVID 19

    • First, never condemn radicals that are no directly part of Your Thing merely state “not our guys, not our way” and move on.
      Second, while Democratic Workers Socialism is in fact a Leftist ideology no matter what post WW2 intellectuals teach, its still going to pop up from time to time because we are in an ideological vacuum. End the vacuum and it will go away.

  13. Don’t place any trust in a Normie uprising. Normies are no better than cowering timid mice. My mother and sister are normies. Last week they came to visit and the following is a paraphrased account of a discussion they had. I say they because I keep out of political discussions with family members.
    Mother:’Oh the way they treat black people in America is appalling!’
    Sister:’I know,they segregate them ,keep them out of good careers and the police target them relentlessly.’
    Mother:’The way Americans treat them is it any wonder they turn to crime? They are just so poor and oppressed!
    Did you see Donald Trump on television?’
    Sister:’No I can’t stand that man! I just can’t listen to him.’
    Mother:’Well he was talking the most utter nonsense. I think that man is mentally ill’.
    Sister:’Somebody should remove him from office:with a bullet!’
    The conversation then turn to the flood of illegal migrants coming to Britain.
    Mother:’I see that Nigel Farage was ranting and raving about the thousands of illegal immigrants coming to Britain’.
    Sister:’They shouldn’t let him appear on television spouting his racist opinions.’
    Mother:’Oh I agree he is a racist. These migrants are just coming here for a better life. They’ll soon settle down and get jobs and slowly but surely become British. People who say otherwise are just racist agitators.’ Belief in the ‘magic dirt’ theory is prevalent here.
    The conversation continued in the same vein. So you see the people who promote this ‘just one more flood of immigrants,just one more example of the police kneeling to BLM,just one more example of the government humiliating the public and the normies will rise up!!’ belief are fooling themselves. The normies will sit and take whatever happens. Things could get many times worse and they will do absolutely nothing. Only a fool mistakes a mouse for a dozing lion!

    • It’s very aggravating. Sounds like your normie family are of the Don’t Know Any Better variety. Like most people they take in what teachers, profs, and MSM say without any critical thinking. The other kind of normie are Know Better Normies. They think well enough to know the truth, but still parrot MSM because MSM represents the civilized. But yeah, I’ve got family like yours too. With a certain CNN lover, instead of responding to him with measured reason, I come SO close to blurting out “You know the real problem? You’re just f*cking retarded.” But then I was taught to respect my elders.

    • Normies always go with the flow of society or in cases where the society doesn’t seem to be there, with the strongest local horse that doesn’t endanger their families.
      This is why they are normies and its up to the 10% of people on either side , people like us that are kooks to carry the fight through.
      The biggest problem we face is an inability to figure out what we want an to organize to get it.
      Infiltrators is an issue for us but the biggest issue is an inability to have a master plan we can remotely agree on.
      In essence we need a manifesto, some “our struggle” kind of thing hopefully by someone much saner than the last guy to serve as a foundation for a new society.
      And as much as I hate to disappoint the Tea Party and Libertarian types, Muh Constipation and Small State systems won’t work.
      You also can’t have Muh Muscular Christendom unless you can fill the hearts and minds and eventually the pews with normies.
      Don’t get me wrong, its a great alternative, I’m just not sanguine about it.
      So this means a secular, Authoritarian Right system that can drag along enough normies to compensate for the Witch Hunt fervor of Anti Racism and the social degradation of the current system.
      Its not easy but it could be done and while it might not win CONUS to Canada, it could win enough for the future.

  14. Non-white are asking unlimited access to white people, so they can get social capital, good environment that they can’t create, attractive women etc.
    And there’s nothing can do about it, since all the white people have actual wealth go along with enemy plans
    It seems like Racial Equality is more easily accepted than Economic Equality

    Some Somalis snooping around some working class area is not the problem of Gated communities people
    For them real issue is how prevent majority white people asking quality of life, they rather choose to have non-white decaying society
    Brit and French have the same problem, turn out that wealthy white people are actually scum 

  15. Small steps but we are slowly getting somewhere in England, the fear of the BBC being defunded is another victory on the long road to making our country as it once was, united.

  16. Today there was a protest at Dover over 5600 illegal migrants crossing the channel so far this year. (The US had ~9x that number just in August. We have ~5x the population of the UK and ~48x the amount of illegal immigrants.) This wouldn’t be happening if the people with real power didn’t want it to happen. Same as here.

  17. Oh good, because this has never been tried. The Tea Party always suffered from being too rowdy, too Violent prone. Same with the MAGA crowd. Think of all the mayors that had to move, all the riots and arson because of the violent, masculine right.

    In the end, violence never solves anything of course.

    And… middle class types tend to get their checkbooks out for ad mavens on the make$.

  18. Good article.
    Your organization must be vetted since the other side likes to infiltrate and disrupt groups from within.
    Also not everyone willing to fight politically or otherwise and with the same foes shares the same values or degree of impulse control.
    Charlottesville taught us that.
    That said never denounce the people fighting your enemies either. The media wants you to do this to sow division.
    If you can’t avoid talking to the press which you should in any case where you are not the political officer, a super heavily vetted position ,let them handle it.

  19. Speaking as an Englishman, that BLM Bollocks in the England has been an eye-opener for normies. This has really made people aware of their history, identity and culture.
    Everyone I speak to has had a revelation about the agenda being forced upon them and it has made them think about race and their whiteness.
    Nationalism is on the rise in England and about time too.

    • The same has occurred in the States. BLM polled north of 70 percent prior to the riots and now is at 40 or so percent approval and dropping. Many Americans also have realized their local and federal governments provide protection to the terrorists. While the FBI and DOJ already had taken a hit due to their involvement in the failed coup attempt, they have fallen further into the gutter as people realize they are anti-White thugs paid by Jewish hate groups and other monstrous entities. The first step to dismantling this evil is discrediting it, and Antifa and BLM have inadvertently done us a favor in this regard.

    • As a son of an English mum, that’s great to hear. When I was a kid my granddad took me to a soccer match in London; he was wearing tweeds and tie, and required me to dress accordingly. We left the match mid-way when “the darkies” started their antics. On the way out he told me, “Those Pakis are going to be the death of this country, mark my word boy.” That was around fifty years ago.

  20. I broadly agree about optics. Jared Taylor and John Derbyshire come from the school of good optics, and make compelling cases for it. Still, optics have their limits. You can be as pure as Caesar’s wife and if you do not subscribe to the anti-White narrative you will be slandered and libeled and subjected to terror.
    We need a blend of both those involved in direct action and those who understand public relations. Obviously, direct action has limits, too. We see that with the state-sponsored domestic terrorists from BLM and Antifa. Even with the constant propaganda, corporate endorsements and their government protection, both have become despised and marginalized groups, dragging the State and culture further into the gutter with them (a good thing, to belabor the obvious). Polls indicated early that BLM had north of 70 percent approval. That is now at 40 percent and dropping.
    Let’s think creatively. We need the equivalent of James O’Keefe focused on race, particularly the anti-White hatred. If someone can secretly get the typical ADL leadership, for a good example, on camera and disseminate their evil and bile widely, that starts to castrate the monstrous Jews. Letting violent blacks speak about how they really feel has forced a few GoodWhites to know, even when they don’t speak about it, this is a feral bunch of trash that needs to be purged from polite society.
    Before direct action can go to the place it needs to go, though, you first have to delegitimize the anti-White movement. They are doing a good job on their own but this needs to be helped along.
    The formation of White societies and fraternal organizations, such as Patriotic Alternative, has to happen but these will be degraded and subjected to State terror, too, particularly in the United States. We actually are better positioned now in this regard as those who mouth the anti-White narrative are outed as they flee the violent non-Whites and it becomes obvious the federal and local authorities support the terrorism against them. The Left in Britain has good reason to be afraid, and the Left in the United States is pig shit thick and ignorant but knows at this point the White populace is onto them. Let’s build on that.

    • I’d like to cheer the lawyers here and out there, and get a list of donation sites. These guys are front-line soldiers.

  21. I applaud Z’s wise council on building grassroots unity and hope his political initiative succeeds. But in the event it doesn’t, not having a Plan B is even stupider than recruiting sociopaths. It seems to me that if the house is on fire, you’re not going to put it out by throwing a glass full of water at it over and over. The USA is dangerously close to being majority parasite. At some point, there is no blood left to suck.

    • I usually stay out of the “Weimar Amerika” debate, because Weimar, Germany is my field of study so the stupid hurts when I hear these debates, but we are actually VERY close to that point right now, finally, where, who pays the tab at the local bar determines who can walk in that neighborhood without getting into a fistfight or knifed or shot (the Browns actually made inroads in red neighborhoods in Berlin because they bought more beer and were less rowdy). The other day I was driving in my neighborhood and saw two yard signs facing off with each other right at the property line, as if dueling: one was a Black Lives Matter sign. The other was a “Trump/Pence” sign. It reminded me of that famous photo of the Mietskaserne (rental barracks) in Berlin where one window has a swastika and another has a hammer and sickle flying.

      • Interesting. There are strong analogies in the government inaction in the face of rampant Jewish degeneracy and child rape and state-approved Marxist revolution that targeted and terrorized average Germans.

        On a personal note, the few BLM signs around me have not gone without notice, to say the least, and the homeowners do not seem to know or care how despised they are. All GoodWhites, mind you, who live as far away as possible from blacks.

      • Down the street from where I live I saw a “Trump 2020, No More Bullshit” banner flying this morning. I like the implied threat that that banner contains, even if it probably doesn’t accurately convey what Trump’s reelection will mean.

  22. Pingback: DYSPEPSIA GENERATION » Blog Archive » The Positive Alternative

  23. “Mark Collett, the head of PA, has even booted a longtime friend from his group, when that friend could not behave himself.”
    You would think someone who was burned as badly as Collett was when he was 19 would have learned a lesson from it.

    If “optics” matter, Collett has to go. Not only did he put on the costume so the pretty people could boo at him and throw tomatoes at him when he was 19, but even recently there are pictures of him and his girlfriend covered in tattoos, and especially a very prominent swastika tattooed on her. These days Mark is always careful to look good, but the second the papers need to make his group look like psychos, they’ll just drag out these past events.

    This has been a consistent failure of the older guys. Someone should have been around Mark when he was 19 that told him, STAY AWAY FROM THE PRESS! Somebody high up in the BNP should have been preparing Mark for the future and not allowing him to participate in a hit piece against them. The Boomers and Xers in the BNP should have taken him under their wings and shielded him from the press. If he didn’t listen, they should have thrown him out. But these idiots always believe they can use the press to get around the press.

    • This is my main, maybe my only problem with Z Man. It’s always about “optics.” We can’t have these dirty FTN people talk about Prussian Blue for five hours (it does get tedious and Aspergers, and is why fast forward buttons exist). What will “they” think of us? question is, who are “they” anyway? Society right? No, we’re not getting the Marin soccer mom. Her son Ethan could be gunned down by an illegal alien in his own driveway, brains splattered everywhere, and we still wouldn’t get Meghan. I know these mentally ill people quite well. But for every Marin soccer mom, there’s 10 tradesmen, who date fake titted women, have at least a few DUIs, and would be far more responsive to FTN content than even this site. The dissident movement is like keys on a piano. Let’s not start ripping keys off that we don’t like.

      • Right, because everyone must accept you as is, without conditions, but you never have to change a single thing, even when it harms the cause.

        Makes perfect sense.

        • The cause is one of necessity. It will carry itself organically, some nodes of the movement won’t make it. Some will thrive. Some will become hybrid with other nodes. The customer is always right. You need the fancy wine bar (that would be this site) and the stogy old pub, V Dare, but you also need the dive bar down the street…and the craft brew pub next to that. Totally different nodes serving very different walks of life.

        • I could use cancer as an example. If you want to kill the host (the globo-homo establishment) you need many different tumors. When the cancer patient (our establishment) takes the chemo and radiation (cancel culture, etc.) there’s always that one pesky tumor that won’t go away and keeps growing. And then they say, it’s on the liver now, you’re fukd. You never know which tumor will survive the gauntlet. And that’s the one that will carry us forward. While in truth the establishment is the cancer, Cancer actually has a great track record of killing its host, so I flipped the metaphor.

          • Committing suicide is a cure for cancer, but is it really the right cure?

            Also, it is situation dependent. If we were in a hot war with the left, I might actually agree. But we are in a propaganda phase. We want to make the other side look evil and our side good. When I was 6 years old, I knew who Adolf Hitler was and the one thing I knew about him was that he was a very, very bad man. This stuff is so embedded in our culture that a 6 year old is aware of it.
            Frankly, I think “optics” is not really even the right word. Bad “optics” implies that we are all secret bad guys trying to keep our little secret from an audience. I don’t have dirty little secrets and I don’t want to kill anyone. I am not hiding evil intentions behind non-offensive rhetoric or visual displays. We are the good guys. We’re not evil.

        • Another straw man, Z.

          You’ve said dozens of times that there isn’t one “Movement” or one leader for Our Thing. Yet you’re spending a post a week here since last winter counter-signaling the wignats.

          Let the vanguard do what vanguards do. If you’re not comfortable with it, no one is demanding a loyalty oath and no one can – either in your big optics tent or the tip of the spear.

          There is no “moral authority” involved here and by your own formulation, TRS is aiming for a different audience than AF, Fuentes, Casey et al.

          • Anyone who has looked at SF in the last 10 years won’t confuse TRS with them. You’re conter-signalling for people you are hoping will simply accept your word for it and not take a look for themselves. That’s a low energy play for the lazy center. You really are getting cynical.

          • More substance-free status-signalling.

            Readers, take a look at both sites and judge for yourselves. Make the effort and use your own judgement.

            I’m not wrong, Z, and you know it – but let them judge for themselves.

      • What is the point of talking about Prussian Blue for 5 hours? This was 80 years ago. Nobody cares and it’s a pointless waste of time, all downside and no upside. Why is ANYONE trying to rehabilitate the regime that brought complete and utter destruction to Germany?
        How many times do you have to fail before a change in tactics is warranted?
        Pressing random piano keys in a random order does not create music, it creates an annoying noise.
        Shooting yourself in the foot is not “bad optics.”
        Proving you are an even bigger monster than people thought you were isn’t “helping”

        Mr “Normie,” like everyone else, has been through propaganda since the time he was a child. He has been trained to think you are a sociopath hell bent on mass murder.
        Since you brought up FTN, do you not think it is wierd that the biggest anti-semite on the internet was married to a Jewish woman living in NYC while larping on the internet as an anti-semite? Is this a man who strikes you as someone whose judgement you can trust?

          • Not everyone can be shoehorned into a certain “purist dissident” way of thought. It’s a big world out there and different people respond to different things.

          • You are acting as if whatever they do is all benefit, even if that benefit is small. Maybe they bring disaffected young men who are angry. Let’s just assume they do that. That is the benefit. Now what are the costs?
            You always have to look at something from a cost benefit analysis. People always want to act as if doing something only has benefits. Meanwhile, these same people poo-poo very low cost programs that have real tangible benefits like connecting like-minded family men.

          • Who are these horrible people who are holding “The Movement” back?

            What “very low cost programs” are we talking about?

            This oblique ankle-biting is typical of the optics crowd.

            The manly honorable approach would be to have the courage to point fingers and name names.

            This passive womanly back-biting isn’t exactly a strong-horse approach.

        • It doesn’t…F-ing…matter. “There’s no upside!” “There’s no upside!”.. Are you the one rolling out of bed to podcast? I don’t listen to them for their Prussian Blue talks, and fast forward through that. I don’t even listen to them for their economic points (which are wrong by the way). I listen to them because most of their content is the stories of the day, and their take on it, and have a good time doing it, just like this site. If they want to indulge themselves with death camp stuff, that’s fine, all this shit is recorded now. I don’t have to sit through it like some it’s on some 1950’s vacuum tube radio. And let them try a new party. It’ll fail for sure. But you never know what happens from point A to Point C or D. A lot of naysayers on this site.

        • Our side hardly needs to parade around in Nazi drag, but some much subtler, far less radioactive form of aesthetic identifier is good for us. Community is all about belonging. And symbols, some rooted in history, will foster belonging to a community.

          Speaking of which, I sometimes think about what a flag or banner for our side would look like.

          • Our flag should comprise the silhouette of a viking shouldering a chipped battle axe with a human head perched atop a blade and standing jauntily on a pile of smashed skulls and viscera. The runic motto ‘what is best in life? to crush your enemies, march them befire you, amd listen to the lamentations of their women.’

            But then I woke up from my nap and realized I’m not Vox Day and I never even dated his hot wife.

          • White obviously must figure prominently, but not to such an extent that it suggests surrender. Hence, probably not a white background. Beyond that, I’m open to suggestions.

          • How about the American flag? Adopt that and the leftists will then openly hate Anyone who associates with it. That will get all the people worth salvaging, on the same page..

        •  This was 80 years ago

          It’s very much aujour d’hui, and it’s not about rehabilitating anything, it’s about de-fanging one of the most poisonous, anti-white memes ever concocted.

          If it were taught in every classroom that the standard method of getting rid of old slaves in America was to chop them up and feed them to the dogs, would you also say “oh, that’s ancient history, let’s not rehabilitate slavery.”

          And it is not just about the Germans, the Holocaust libel is being wielded at every European.

          • They do the same stuff with slavery. I am just thankful they aren’t “helping” by exposing the lies of slavery.
            What you say is true. There is no reason America should be dotted with holocaust museums. We ain’t the ones who did it and it wasn’t done to us. Just like my city doesn’t have a major PT line’s stop named after the Holodomor or the Rwandan genocide.
            Yeah, this totally sucks. We are all broadly tarred with this brush. Still, I don’t think running face first into this kind of propaganda is very helpful, especially when the ones doing it are so obviously antisemetic. The people who want to question the narrative can’t be people who think the Holocaust SHOULD have happened, but didn’t.
            I get the appeal of their brand of humor and their willingness to gore sacred cows. But they are running face first into the emotional part of people’s heads that have been conditioned to think it was the most evil thing to ever happen in history. Hitler wasn’t even the worst guy of the 20th century, let alone all of history. Hell, worse people were alive at the time he was alive. But this is where people are.

          • Until that propaganda stops being effective, you have to address it.

            War against the Holocaust may not be interesting to everyone, but the Holocaustians are interested in using it against you.

            Pretending it’s not important because “cringe, bro, we’re serious guys around here” is sticking your head in the sand for the sake of impressing the other side with your high manners – ala the tea-pinky conservative and paleo-con sets.

            As commenters above have noted, that’s been tried and it’s universally failed.

            But because of personal beefs and concern over manners, image and salemanship, we’re supposed to keep tilting at that windmill regardless?

          • 101% Felix – the ostrich approach is not going to make this venomous blood libel go away – it has to be debunked no matter how icky or boring some find the effort.

        • Mocking the Worst Thing That Ever Happened is not only fun it drives the Enemy batshit, because it is right out of their own playbook.
          But I am afraid they have painted themselves into a corner with the orangemanbad pills, and seem otherwise out of content and no longer having fun. So a six million episode series on The Thing That Never Happened is a way of always having something to put out.
          Maybe if Biden wins they will wake up.

        • “What is the point of talking about Prussian Blue for 5 hours?”

          Because the ultimate reason that whites can’t collectivize is always because of the Holoc@ust lie.

          Until we dismantle this blood libel, our people will always submit.

      • I’m one of those scumbags, and I’ve been buying suit coats at the Goodwill. Even got a couple of trousers now.

        You’ve got to have something that makes you look up, lift your head in pride, strive to do better.

      • JR, are you in Marin? I lived there for 12 years and loved it until I decided to flee. God, that place is beautiful but the people are suicidaly foolish!

    • I disagree. Redemption stories are powerful persuaders. In my experience, Mark is not running from his past. Instead, he is using it to support the new approach, especially when addressing young men. Most people can relate to having been a screw-up when young, but then having the light go on and growing up.

      The key in all of this is actually learning from the past. The flag and costume guys refuse to learn a damned thing or even consider learning from the past.

      • Let them have their costumes. Let them do what they want. I have a totally different opinion on this. I see all dissident content as a giant buffet in Las Vegas and you don’t want to eat the f-ing chicken parm, you don’t have to eat it. We need to be more big-tent and entrepreneurial as dissidents. We don’t need any self-appointed seal’s of approval for this stuff. That’s how movements die. I don’t even like the term “our thing” because it’s self limiting. Now that’s unproductive.

        • Perhaps. But, at least from an ideological standpoint, there have to be boundaries and litmus tests. For instance, we cannot accept into our ranks those who support Third World immigration. We can and probably should be reasonable flexible when it comes to optics and grubby brawlers versus gentile theoreticians, but there must also be non-negotiable core beliefs.

        • I want to build a building for my family to live in. I could bring in engineers and skilled welders and electricians… but eh… why not just let *literally anyone* show up and start operating the crane and driving bulldozers here and there around the construction site. Sure it *seems* like there are even people bringing in hand grenades and containers of termites as fast as they can, and they’re sort of chuckling and they hit my actual welder in the back with a hammer.

          But I mean it’s free labor and who am I to say who can and can’t work on it?

          Not even a church thrift shop runs on the principle that anyone and everyone can work there. Volunteer organizations doing the most inconsequential things occasionally FIRE volunteers who are more trouble than help. And the plan is to trust literally anyone for your political movement?

          • You’re talking about licensing engineers to build something on a plot of land that’s entirely owned by the current establishment.

      • I disagree. Redemption stories are powerful persuaders.

        This is a great point.

        I would only add that people should be aware how the power of anecdote has been leveraged by the media and the controllers to foment and perpetuate the Beer Flu hysteria in light of the available data.

      • The only thing Mark needed redemption from is possibly too much drinking – by his own account.

        You’re package-dealing a lot of “wignattery’ into his “redemption arc” here. The important thing is that his politics, including his principled antisemtism, have not changed.

        Third position politics are not a sin and we don’t need absolution or Fellow-White-washing for them.

        Who are these “flag and costume” guys we keep hearing about?

        We don’t need our own guys gas-canning the memes of crazy wignat supreemises.

        No one with any footprint in the dissident Right today fits the devil suit you are ooga-boogaing about.

  24. Guys, psychopaths and thugs do not make good soldiers. A posse of respectable middle class white fathers can commit violence just as well if things go bad.

    The difference is that the broader world will know they are righteous and justified.

    We merry few don’t need to embrace the same guys who have failed for 60 years or longer.

    • Perhaps, but would such become another “Freikorps” with all the baggage that entailed? Good, respectable, fathers are not necessarily prepared/trained to do the necessary. Fighters needed, not martyrs. On the other hand, not sure what the alternative is when the chaos comes to your neighborhood.

      • It isn’t an either/or thing with sociopathy vs. being a respectable family guy. Look at our own Greatest Generation: A lot of guys who were cutting gold teeth out of Japanese soldiers’ mouths in Guadalcanal were walking the floors as salesmen in appliance stores or driving a Good Humor truck when they got back.

        • Yep, but those guys had a period of time to train and decondition to the level of effective warrior from nice guy normie. My greatest fear is that the conflict comes to the neighborhood and we have a bunch of guys standing on their lawns wondering what the ruckus is all about.

      • The Freikorps were WW1 veterans, dads, and homeowners, and their sons who wanted to be just like dad, weren’t they?

        Freeholders defending their cabins, with the father and the sons appearing with axes at their door.

    • Respectable middle class white millenial fathers might defend their individual homes but they will never coalesce into small units and bring organized violence beyond them. Respectable dads will not risk their status even when justified. Consider the white parents of minority-on-white murder victims who empathize with the killers and lend public support to them instead of demanding justice like every ither group does.

      • That’s what must be worked on when the time comes. Pushing the slime balls into the next neighborhood is the “Neighborhood Watch” strategy. If that is practiced, then one has not defended one’s home and immediate neighborhood, they’ve simply put off the inevitable.

  25. Dissident politics is primarily nativist and must speak on a native level to win. If our superstate, spanning four time zones just on the mainland, can no longer speak to us regionally you have a serious problem, and we do. This is why I’ve always believed that we would need a breakup first. The pressures are building on this due to the great sort, which has been ongoing for 30 years, and the internet. With the internet you can finally see the kind of people that occupy your entire country, even if you never leave your town. Around 1996 people started saying “I share the same country as those people?!” And this is beside the immigration issue. If the country remains in tact the powers that be will be playing white ethnicities against each other until the end of time. When the bills come due on our runaway spending, the money issue will be the one that does it. Right now everyone is still on the gravy train.

  26. I remember watching Phil Donahue back in the 80’s thinking people like Donahue live in a world that won’t work and they are creating their own problems to solve in their future. That was 40 years ago and it turned out to be true.
    As for fellow Americans? I am doing better at engaging with people where they are at. Dissident politics opens eyes but not everyone is as interested as we who consume this stuff are. We got to meet them where they are at.

    • Necessity is the mother of invention. The reason dissident politics isn’t mainstream (yet) is because everything still works. the Medicare is still being accepted, the Social Security disability checks are being cashed. The various welfare programs spanning from Federal to municipal programs are still going strong. All of this on printed (electronic) money, with 60% thrown on new Federal debt, while we service the old debt, and for the first time in 80 years or more, no one wanting to buy our bonds except The Fed. It’s a financial Pompeii that will eventually blow, and when it does, dissidents, being outside the blast zone of conventional politics, will be big winners…along with all the AOCs. But that’s a future battle, for a future time.

  27. A successful movement needs different sets of skills at different levels. If some normie/middle-class guy like Rand Paul has to risk death to get from a restaurant/convention to his car (with his wife in tow), you’re going to need that “football” contingent, or whatever you want to call it. If the cops are incapable of performing basic duties, as you asserted (correctly) then basic security/defense will need to be handled, and sometimes by people who might tread dirt onto your carpet when they carry you home after saving you in a brawl you didn’t even know you were in until it was too late. It’s like the South Park guys said awhile back; cops are assh*les, but you don’t want to see a world without assh*les. Assh*les keep much greater evil at bay. Actually that’s the left’s/progs real problem: they always regard people who annoy them (conservatives, soldiers, cops etc.) as worse than people who want to kill them (Muslims, blacks, little hats).

    • Snipers. Lots and lots of snipers. Enough to take out 40% of the population with a single volley. And then we can discuss salesmen.

      • The disease is a small fraction of the host body, so chopping off both your legs is crippling not curing. Focus on the few who actually do damage. Firearms are for hunting and self-defense. Think outside the box. Technology is your friend. Use what you know. Accidents happen.

        • They fear no harm. This enables and imbues them with great confidence. Strip that away with life or death consequences or you’ll never “rehabilitate” the survivors. We are at war, just you wait and see.

          • Agreed. Once ANTIFABLM suffers appreciable loss of life, its ardor for violence and destruction may dampen. Having said that, this activity is part of the hot war. Z’s community-building/PR project is on the cool side of the equation. Both are necessary.

          • I’ll not be calling in airstrikes anytime soon. But the war has gone hot, which means that while Z’s approach is welcome it will likely not be very efficacious this juncture. Antifa will learn from its current self-destructive patterns, reform and redirect. I expect them to begin assassinating thinly-protected opponents such as the Goya CEO and Pelosi’s hair salon owner.

          • But the objectives of your approach and Z’s are different, albeit complimentary. Our side can and should inflict real pain on ANTIFABLM. Simultaneously, however, we need effective methods to recruit normcons to our side. Both things have to occur if we are to succeed.

        • In a street battle against Antifa, your first target will be the guy who’s being talked to by the other guy holding a radio. Then you address the radio dude. Next, any of them wearing armor beginning with professional-class armor suite down to the homemade stuff. Obviously anyone shooting at your side should receive priority ad hoc.

          “Ethan” doesn’t need to be scouted in advance. You’ll be able to identify him once the shooting starts because he will be hiding behind the others and beside the radio guy.

        • I wish this post was a bit more prominent here. This is a phenomenal piece of intel and would qualify as “Baby’s First OpSec Guide and OODA Loop”

          If you are an armchair general with no real experience or simply interested in how it all works on the ground this is a nice starting block for how to become the “Gray Man” and navigate spaces unseen to collect massively valuable intel rather than go in with fists swinging like a retard. This is what Z is alluding to.

          A 10 man team who read that brief would be able to neutralize 90% of Antifa security in seconds simply from the report that was generated in advance rather than just thrashing around wildly. Great stuff thanks for the link.

    •  If some normie/middle-class guy like Rand Paul has to risk death

      Give me an effing break, he was surrounded by Secret Service agents, nobody even laid a hand on him.

      Rand may be one of the less obnoxious congress critters, but he still sponsored the “Breonna Taylor Act” and never mentioned the name Cannon Hinnant.

      Rand got what he fucking deserved.

      • St. Breonna, the BLM ace-in-the-hole is portrayed as an innocent schoolteacher asleep in her bed.

        No, her drug dealer boyfriend got raided, and started a shootout with the police.

        He said he started firing because he thought the cops were her ex- dealer boyfriend, out of prison, come to shoot the current bf for taking the former bf’s girl.

        We have our own ways of living.

        • A lot of middle-class people project their own circumstances onto the bottom classes. They would never have a drug dealer boyfriend, no less a drug-dealer ex-boyfriend. They assume having almost every man in your life having been arrested at least once is absurd. They assume that responding with violence to legitimate police action is crazy so nobody does it.

          It is almost impossible for me to convince people what the lives of the bottom classes are like without taking them around and showing them myself, and then they still don’t get it. You stop them in front of a nasty, trash-filled yard, with some janky, toothless meth-head sitting on the porch and bestial barely-verbal kids scampering around the yard and they *still* want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

          I say bottom classes, because it’s a whole sub-category below lower-class. I know a lot of fine lower-class people doing their best to get by honestly.

  28. I think the difficulty people are having understanding the importance and usefulness of PR is we are often still stuck in the old modes of thinking. Violence and revolution are how change has often been made in our history. What we may be forgetting is that that change led us here to the brink of destruction in the first place. It isnt likely to start paying off now when even more is at stake.

    I have talked to a person who wanted to have a clash with leftists in the streets and when I tried to talk him out of it I realized there was no point and he wouldnt listen. We can try but these guys are their own people and we can respect that for what it is.

    Fine. The fighters dont need us to encourage them and they wont be discouraged. I think those of us with a longer view to the horizon can just do our thing without worrying about them too much.

    • If I were to start a political organization, every member would be required to attend a sale training course as a condition of membership. Annual refresher courses would be required.

      • From an old sci-fi novel:

        1. Lieutenants can’t marry
        2. Captains may marry
        3. Majors must marry

        It’s a “skin in the game” argument. First, it proves someone can put up with one’s BS 24/7 (shows self regulation at all times). Second, it demonstrates commitment even/esp though the future I is uncertain. Finally demonstrates leading by example.

        Doubly so by having kids. I don’t trust high level political leadership who don’t marry one gal and have kids with her. (The Zman excepted, of course)

      • Your analogy to sales points to a key distinction that frustrates a significant portion of the DR. Your view is that good optics illuminates the value proposition to normies much as a good sales pitch. That is that threats (violence) or false promises (equality) don’t sell. The counterpoint is that the value proposition should be self-evident; and if it has to be sold at all, the buyers aren’t worth association. If normies can’t realize that diversity is a weakness and whites must segregate for their own benefit and advancement, then let them drown in the tidal wave of brown filth they’ve chosen to surf. Apartheid now, by any means necessary!

        • No product sells itself. Ask any good salesman and he will tell you that every prospect has be nudged into being a client.

          • I’ve met few sales guys who are not willing to compromise the product or tell lies about it to make the sale.

            Sales guys are always asking product development, “Make the product do X.”

            Developers say, “But that’s not a good way of doing it.”

            Sales guy: “But that’s what the customer wants!”

            Developer: “OK, submit a feature request for it.”

            Sales guy to prospect: “It’s on the roadmap!”

            What does that mean in terms of dissident politics? Probably what it has always meant for all politics. Compromise in the name of winning until one day the customer (citizen/voter) wakes up and realizes that even though he’s voting/working for the party that supposedly represents him, the party no longer does anything that actually benefits him.

            The endless cycle of human nature.

          • Anyone not willing to tell the occasional white lie about the product they’re selling, is a poor salesman. It’s why my husband has 5xs the knowledge & experience, but I still outsell him.

          • And there you go, making my point for me.

            “White lie” is just a rationalization that makes it a little less difficult to look at yourself in the mirror every day.

      • I like the Billy Mays approach (may he RIP). Personalize the message w a friendly, trustworthy face

    • Those “hot heads” in the ranks can also compare and contrast with those who heed Z-man’s advice. But we must first create/organize his proposed alternative. My personal disposition is toward what Z-man suggests. I’m not a rabble rousing, counter demonstrating, street fighter—regardless of understanding of weapons and tactics. Those are a last resort.

    • To the best of my knowledge, in modern history there are exactly zero examples of right-leaning movements that have risen to power, or even managed just to contain the left, without the presence of street-level fighters willing and able to commit violence. Anyone arguing that the world has somehow magically changed and such fighters are no longer necessary bears the burden of explaining precisely what your plan is to counter the violence of Antifa and BLM. I’m all ears.

      This movement will need fighters and it will need tacticians and strategists to direct them. There needs to be plausible deniability of association between the two, much like Sinn Fein and the IRA. No need to reinvent the wheel.

      In this civil war there will be no Mason-Dixon line. The fault lines will be the Red/Blue divide between suburban/rural areas and Blue cities. We have to consolidate in the Red zones then squeeze them into ever-smaller Blue districts, where we can cut off their access to food, water, energy, and goods. Then we negotiate the great separation.

      • Asked: What modern movement got rid of the Left without a street force?
        Answered: Pinochet in Chile, Fujimori in Peru. In both cases they used the military. Which was fed up with the Left and viewed them rightly as an existential threat to their institutions.
        Free Helicopter rides happened because not just Generals but Captains and Majors figured the Left would certainly shoot them and their families.

        • The military *were* the street forces in those cases. Try again.

          You never get tired of being wrong in any of these forums, do you?

  29. From a Canadian on 4chan:

    The left will win because their strategy is superior to the right.

    AOC (or someone like her) will be president in 2040.

    The left restructured and dropped the working class. Instead it applied the same dynamic (promising higher status to lower status people) to groups who are currently low status due to biological reasons: women, blacks, Low IQ brown Hispanics, homosexuals, transexuals, the mentally ill, the retarded, the ugly…etc. That’s why they push everything from BLM to fat acceptance to body shaming positivity.

    When combined these low status people make up the majority, all people who are low status in Western society, and who would be low status in any free society with a large amount of straight white men. Because they suck. They’re just not very productive, for no fault of their own. A low IQ person of African descent may be a very hard worker, but he is naturally limited to low IQ jobs. A mentally ill tranny will be low status in any sane non-leftist society, and so will a ugly fat woman with purple hair. The left promises them status, and they will hence be unquestionably loyal.

    The right has absolutely no answer for this, because it will always pretend that biology doesn’t matter. The right pretends we’re all really equal. The left actually understand that we are inequal for deep biological reasons, it understand the Pareto Principle…and it aims to use that inherent inequality to ride the unify the masses of biologically inferior to rise to power.

    • I think the term came from Spandrell at Bloody Shovel (at least, that’s where I first saw it): Bioleninism.

      • Spandrell coined the phrase. He knows BioLeninism is comprised of outgroups who hate one another but thinks it has long-term durability. I don’t agree with that part. In fact, one takeaway from the riots is only feral communist Whites and blacks are down with the current madness. Every word GoodWhites utter to the contrary is a lie, ultimately, and they are voting with their feet as they are being literally expelled from their well-manicured shitholes. The brown part of that coalition is watching and not participating. There already was a rift between them and blacks and it has been exacerbated. As I wrote earlier, getting anti-Whites such as the Jewish hate groups ADL and SPLC secretly on film discussing their plans, which someone like James O’Keefe does with political fanatics, is very helpful.

      • True, and credit to SixxSigma for explaining it better.

        Edit: woops, Compsci said it first, below. I’m interrupting in my haste.

        (And, unimportantly, embarrassed at being such a mess yesterday.

        Worried about something found in a dark corner, I should’ve just spit it out.

        Apologies to all.)

        • No one’s ideas here are copyrighted. Take what seems good and spread the word. By all my teachers, I am made wiser.

      • That term always annoyed me as it implies some substantial difference outside of the actual demographics involved. The working class are (almost) always the least biologically gifted in a homogeneous society.

        Hell, Lenin et al actually did phrase it on ethnic grounds as oppressed non-Russians vs. oppressive Russians back in the early days. So what’s the point in adding a “bio” instead of a “neo”?

        Programmers should stick to their programming, methinks, and people should put in the effort to get their humanities education from books, not spergy blogs.

    • I can’t think of anyone on the left who understands that biology is the reason for inequality. Most will shriek if you point that out.

      • There are in the Left’s movement, “useful idiots”. Those who cling to the fallacy of “equality” are just that. They are foot soldiers and therefore cannon fodder. Those running things at the top have no such delusion. We—as the average DR—work at the lower levels of these things, so you and I most often interact with those “true” believers in the rank and file Left, if we interact at all. But never underestimate the understanding of those at the top.

        • There’s no doubt that those at the top of the leftard food chain know the score, but you’ll never hear them utter such blasphemy – probably even in private – let alone public. Of course that makes them all the more evil, for they’re the ones who’ve directed the indoctrination that’s poisoned so many lives in so many different ways.

      • After decades of social conditioning, anybody who ain’t us will shriek and recoil in horror if you so much as hint at biology despite the majority who interact with other races know the role biology plays.

      • Every leftist understands the biological reality of the situation way more than any Alt rightist.

    • Bioleninism is the best path to power if your goal in life is to lord over a fourth-world cannibal holocaust. Though chances are you won’t be Stalin, you’ll be one of the millions of party members he had killed.

    • Yeah, until the “right” accepts that they are actually racist, and biology/in group preference matters, they will keep losing.

      “I’m not racist, BUT” is always a losing argument. “Actually, yes, I want X because it is good for our people” is a winning and irrefutable argument.

      Optics do matter, going around being a racist sperg isn’t the same as calmly defending your own group interests.

      • Thanks for the reality check haha. I’m constantly flummoxed at white mens’ terror at the racist charge.
        Clearly the judgement about an individuals capacities based solely on ethnic background is ridiculous. But to think there are no discernible patterns? Haha

        • From the Bell Curve:

          Measures of intelligence have reliable statistical relationships with important social phenomena, but they are limited tool for deciding what to make of any given individual.

          Basically NAXALT, but as a whole AXALT especially tribal 3rd worlders.

      • That’s just it, they already tried.

        This ‘They Live caliber psyops’ is because the gun misfired.

        Worse, it wasn’t a spill of the virus. It might’ve been a spill of the ‘vaccine’.

    • Importing low IQ blacks and browns into white nations, telling them that they’re equal to us in every way (or better) and that they are special and deserve success, is cruel.

      Not surprisingly they don’t (and can’t) meet the standards of our society. The cognitive dissonance makes them resentful, and that constant megaphone saying “it’s whiteys’ systematic racism” is enough to set them off.

      I feel sympathy for a Pakistani guy trying to date in the West. We would all be much happier in our own countries, with our own systems designed to suit our biological strengths and weaknesses.

      • That’s where me and the BLM blacks agreed. We each have our own ways, we each want the same thing: separate living places.

        Take their kids out of our schools.
        The three-legged stool is based on home, school, church.

        The biggest, first mistake was forced integration of the schools- those posse comitatus soldiers had fixed bayonets pointed at White kids.

      • You feel sorry for the invaders..That is stupid on it’s face because just being here is a huge step up for them.
        And until people stop the cucking and the virtue signalling and the feeling sorry for those who are replacing them, they will continue being destroyed.
        Does anyone think that other races sit around worrying about them??

    • Sailer picked up on this. His example is that the primary goal of the new wave of NYT female journalists is to remake standards of beauty .

  30. Except for parts of the South, what appeals to normal Americans is not “white lives matter” or “migrants not welcome”. It’s freedom, God, and hating on commies. This leads to civic nationalist organizations on this side of the Atlantic. And for people that want to join organizations, only those organizations are experiencing surges in interest. I’m not passing judgment; just stating the facts here.

  31. Tearing things down is easy.

    Preservation is tedious, but necessary.

    Building something worth keeping is very, very hard.

    This goes for the left as much as the right. Salutes to Collette and Zman for pushing for the building option, but not selling it as “easy” like what’s left of Conservative Inc does daily.

    • Well said. I can only add that if rebuilding community is very, very hard, imagine what that means for rebuilding a transcontinental nation with no common culture. At least at the community level we have a shaky foundation of unity on which to repair and rebuild. The hard work has to start there, which is why I have extremely remote hopes for any organization that tries the top-down, nationalistic approach. Specific to America is our still viable Federalist system of government … if our side used that to advantage it would focus on counties first, before building out regional organizations, and then working toward state-level organizations.

      • I’m afraid rebuilding “America,” already a shambling corpse, is just not on. We can, however, build white identitarian communities in areas which are already overwhelmingly white and where such projects will find sympathy. As those communities coalesce, they can then think about creating political sovereignty.

        • Agreed – rebuilding America isn’t going to happen in my lifetime. Probably not my state either. Our generation’s job is to create the local environments that allow our communities to prosper. When I captained ships the aim was to leave it better for the next skipper; as a father of six the aim is to carve out community space in which my kids can thrive. If we catapult enough young adults into life with this attitude, things will coalesce as you mention.

      • Agreed. The principle of subsidiarity must rule. My allegiance rises no higher than to the State of Jefferson. America no longer exists. Of course, we Jeffersonians look forward to treaties of peace, amity and mutual support with other white enclaves. We especially welcome aid in our wars to exclude the pernicious meddling of the bantu lands of San Fecescrisco, Oaklandia and Los Diablos del Sur.

  32. Ha! Good to see Mark Collett rising up in life. Heard he had a woman and a kid, too. Good for him. Guess he grew up some because it was all too easy to piss him off on his old YouTube channel (“This Week on the Alt-Right”).

  33. While you’re walking down the street be sure to lose your weirdness and put on a happy face. You don’t want to frighten the Antifa assassin and his Corporate Media entourage waiting around the next corner to kill you.

  34. Has Collett abandoned his affinity for David Duke? If you want to present yourself to normal circles , that baggage has to go.

    • Like a lot of Euros, he does not know how some of these characters from the past are viewed by Americans. I’ve had conversations with Euros on this and they are baffled by my explanation. They don’t know what they don’t know. That’s the funny thing about Europe. Every Euro I’ve met thinks they know America and Americans like the back of their hand. On the other hand, we don’t think we know anything about Europe, even though we probably know a lot.

      • JF Gariepy also, though he is a sperg so die trying to persuade him.
        I noticed Utube demonitized him the other day, what took them so long? Something fishy about him and not just the Epstein money he took years ago.

        • I’m unsure how he keeps going at all. I just looked at his channel and he has a few thousand people watching him. Maybe the view counts are wrong. I know YouTube monkeys around with them, but until now I have not heard anyone mention him in a long time. How can he make a business from a few thousand viewers?

          Regardless, I’m a big believer is accepting reality. Some things work and other things don’t work. We have over half a century of the flag and costume stuff to examine. Total failure. Time to move on from that.

      • Every Euro I’ve met thinks they know America and Americans like the back of their hand. On the other hand, we don’t think we know anything about Europe, even though we probably know a lot.

        Europeans know more about America than Americans know about Europe for the same reason that a barbarian would know more about Rome than the Roman would know about barbarians.

        There’s the language-thing of course, but first and foremost, what happens in Washington is of absolutely critical importance to Europeans, in many cases more important than what happens in their own governments. But what happens in Bucharest or Copenhagen is of absolutely zero significance to America.

        And I’ve lost count of the number of Americans who think they’re experts on Sweden or France because their cousin worked in London for a year.

      • It strikes me as more than a little inconsistent that one ex-Klansman (Duke) will always have Klan-cooties. Yet Senator Byrd was in that organization for far longer and rose to a higher level through its ranks and never paid a price socially or otherwise. (I attribute this to Byrd’s tenure in the Klan to being pre-TV.) And with all the obliteration of Confederate monuments has anyone heard of a single “Robert C. Byrd” building or highway being renamed?

  35. Camping trips and family-friendly front-facing spokespeople are fine, but unfortunately the real people of the British Isles have been left with a hard bloody task that will require hard men. That’s if the task can even be accomplished at this late date. Enoch Powell was right.

    • Yeah it all sounds good and I love to camp but ultimately we’re going to have to embrace our sociopaths. They make excellent soldiers

      • They make excellent ditch diggers and earthen fortification specialists, maybe he smarter ones can be exploited for laundry detail and mess hall cooks.

          • Okay I get who you’re talking about.

            My experience in the workplace, some reform and do well, most end up making the same mistakes. I imagine the same as soldiers. Probably more trouble than they’re worth.

          • All things are possible when you control the information pipeline. We don’t. So your point is well taken.

      • That’s been the pattern for three generations and it has been a failure. Three generations of imbeciles is enough.

          • Nothing. I just oppose doing the same stupid things over and over hoping for a different result. The “embrace your retards” strategy has been tried over and over. Total disaster. Frankly, when has “we have to be dumber about this” been your best option? The answer is never. Being dumber is never the right answer.

          • Yep, and we have also tried Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis, Jared a Taylor, Peter Brimelow and The Derb during the last 50 years. I get making fun of costumed retards, but your way does not have a better record.

          • I’ll allow for the possibility you are a new reader, so I will be nice. I have addressed this exact claim thousands of times so your comment does not reflect well on you. Read more.

          • The Tea Party redux isn’t the same thing?

            There hasn’t been the same stupid thing done since the KKK was destroyed in the 1960s, by pure coincidence along with what was left of the South.

            But if we have nice Ladies embracing racial separatism in a family friendly atmosphere that will work.

            While the right dicked around calling everyone a Fedpoaster the Left built the prison, and its built. Now we just will be progressively progressed from work release to greater and greater levels of security.
            But at least no one important went to jail – instead the jail was built around all of us.

            Y’all can put away the plan for another Tea Party. Start planning on how to organize prison gangs. We’re in one.

          • you need the tea party outside to bring supplies to the prison gangs. or idk, but my point is, some people build community, others sacrifice for it.

        • Zman is correct and his point remains the same about win then morality. This is simply recruiting toward building a functioning army as opposed to a spearhead forlorn hope. Berserkers are great for what they are. Ranks of trained soldiers supported by engineers, supply, scouts and Intel units are better.

          • You don’t get soldiers/fighters from such ranks as office drones and professionals.
            The soldiers traditionally come from blue collar and lower middle-class types = the sam,e people NR eschews.

          • Nonsense. If antifa can recruit the slacker children of “office drones” because they are lacking direction and self-awareness… we can certainly recruit young whites if we can instill pride in themselves and their people for the exact same reason. Give us Our children and youths of any economic class with a sense of themselves as a people and in two months we can give you soldiers. Three months and we can produce excellent soldiers. I’ll take everyone of Ours and not be picky about it.

          • agreed. it gets harder considering the lack of white aesthetic and faith/metaphysics in general being promoted in the culture, which enslaves the kids mentally with left-brown “youth culture”. but considering how deranged the last generations are becoming (tranny story time hours), a breaking point is coming of disgusted kids wanting to detach, and needing guidance. here come us with white pill, god pill, red pill, etc… and sure, there will be a time to camp with the women and kids, but also a time to practice marksmanship…

          • you need both.
            specially considering the marxoid element central to the colored revolution hates (white) families and faith on one hand, yet has no fear of being kinetic on the other hand.

        • I understand the Zman’s point, but I am not convinced it will work any better than “embrace your retards.”

          The natural pressure in a female-dominated society is for pathological altruism. Women want to mother everyone in the world. That leads to the not-coincidentally-named Nanny state. It leads to mass immigration, because like Mutti Merkel, women want to embrace Emma Lazarus’s poor, huddled masses.

          They and their own children (the few that leftist women have) have to be seriously hurting to get them to back off from that.

          There’s not going to be a reversal of globohomo until there is sufficient pain, no matter what a friendly, appealing front the dissident right puts forward.

          And once there is sufficient pain, nobody will care if the guy saying “I’ll fight for you” is a bit of a crazy sociopath, as long as he protects them from the other side’s crazy sociopaths.

          We on the DR aren’t really in control of that pain level. The left is.

          • which is why we need the two strategies. the nice face to console the increasing amounts of hurting women/kids/hollow men. and the protector’s scarred face, when prevention of further pain is above all considerations.

      • Ideally, I think the answer we want is “All Of the Above”. When the sociopaths, the family men and regular guys at the tavern are all singing from the same hymnal, then you know your side is winning. Come one, come all!

        • No vetting= guys in your organization who look like Jerry Seinfeld who always decide to flash a Sieg Heil to the Führer when the cameras are rolling on your parade.

        • Sociopaths,by definition, are not going to put any group interests above their own personal interests.
          I would imagine even the military doesn’t want sociopaths. If a sociopath is captured and there was benefit to them talking, they will talk.
          The problems of the dissident right has most certainly NOT been the absence of sociopaths.

          • Well then why is the left so replete and effective with sociopaths? How is it that so many business leaders are progressive psychos? And can anyone argue that most if not all of the trillionaire and billionaire classes are not sociopaths? The Eight Families? Bezos? Gates? Soros? Bueller ….

          • This is why they sell out their own country to get some money.
            You can see the same thing with these riots. They are rioting no matter what the political ramification are.
            The media has sociopathed itself into a near complete lack of trust by the general public.

          • People are also turning against them. Morality is making a comeback. The spiritual battle is what’s dividing everyone.

          • agreed. which is why we can’t just throw the gene science at people and pretend that will unite all whites. without the spirit, wignats are gonna wignat, specially if surrounded by the similarly-IQ colored. sure, some science secular talk helps to ground the ideal, and white pagan myths are cool and inspiring to a degree; but it also helps reminding normie white people that those who killed Jesus and those who created the antiwhite establishment were mostly the same: “reasonable” goodwhites acting on behalf of (((usual suspects))) and other strangers, in this modern time using colored and/or deviant centurions to instill further terror in the populace. sure, normie whites will usually have colored friends and balk at the ideas first; but if they are truly friends, they will know how other coloreds are not as friendly. or, on the other hand, the normie may be too lost to integration to rescue; but, he may still just be a neutral at best, if enough science and faith can help said normie leave you alone at least – instead of going all red flag laws on you…

          • Sociopaths don’t have any reason to betray the left. Most of what these people have preached for the last 50 years is licentiousness, throwing away of societal constraints, and ME, ME, ME! Now, if you were a leftist indebted only to your own self-satisfaction, would you usually end up betraying this faction?

          • Oh, I can partly answer that one. Nonviolent psychopaths share one common trait… Inability to empathize. It’s an actual brain disorder that can come from simple frontal lobe damage Consequently, they are prone to make rash decisions. Their world is filled with entirely different consequences; well, fewer.

            But here’s the gotcha. When psychopath CEO Gill Bates decisively chooses to go forward with a risky vaccine in a 3rd world nation resulting in disease outbreak, he is first commended for his decisiveness and leadership. Secondly, he is appreciated for his “steely” handling of the consequences. In truth, he just doesn’t give a sh*t.

            I take solace in thinking it’s possible these psychos actually are envious of those like us with deep emotional connection to others. It may be one of very few areas where they see themselves as weak. But good luck thinking a polygraph can detect their deception.

          • we just need the right kind, the effective yet warm looking kind. Steve Jobs did a lot of despicable things for the left with that overused black sweater.

        • Nope. The low value trash has to be taken to the curb for disposal. Even Uncle Adolph realized that. See the Night of the Long Knives.

          • You don’t have anyone to kick to the curb. Don’t have a curb either.

            People can mock LARP, but at least there’s life and action from based stickman.

            I ❤️ How the Right, which does not actually exist because it was cowed by phantoms into never coming into existence speaks of long knives, standards, a good image.

            The only real right this side of butt lover biker gangs is the scattered few militias, who have been successfully thwarted not and never by the Left but by the so called right. Had they been given a fraction of the funds the Left donates, the online buzz they’d be a real alternative to the Left. Thanks to the cowed/fraid of Feds right *the only alternatives to the Left are meaningless elections and demoralized, collapsing police forces.

            You’ve won by default, whoever you really are. Congratulations.

          • You are totally right. Be the change you want to see in the world.

            Please put here your real name, address, and telephone number so we can solicit donations for you to start the revolutionary army. Clearly, you are not cowed by the Feds. So let us know who you are so we can started! I’ll wait…

          • Default? Between the IRS, Attorneys General, mayors, governors, and the media, we’re living in a time when the grassroots right is very suppressed and the left is allowed to run riot. That will change.

          • What repression? Getting fired from a job you should have never taken is the max repression that actually existed.

            That will change?
            Yes, it will get real instead of imaginary. Actually if you are in a Left wing city wearing MAGA gear it already has.
            The only existing change agents are the Left. The Right bloviates online – an excellent pressure release valve – and only acts one way; Runs.
            The only real change is more of the same; whites run.

            Whites are Runners, the Race’s name should be changed from White to Flight.

            The Left exists, the Right does not because false Thought Leaders have convinced the potential Right any organization is fatal.

        • Give more of Our People a face and place to feel welcome and show them they dont have to be ashamed, rather, they are part of a greater family with a proud history. Gatherings free of freaks and wholesome interactions makes them a part of a community and more likely to put him in the mind to defend that community.

          • Here’s what I think may be a real life example of what you and Z-man suggest coming from the 2nd Amendment community, of which I have had a role here for many years.

            We have folks that organize events/training wrt firearm usage. Any number of these events were of the “gunny” type where one learns self defense with rifle and pistol. Others, where one learns tactics and a lot of “shoot and scoot” and field training. Some are more competitive events, others more inclined to promote personal development in the art.

            Most all of which doesn’t particularly appeal to normies (even normies with a firearm) and are of the type the anti-gunners love to lambast in the media—militia training/organization etc. you know—the standard slanders. Most all, but not all.

            One particular firearm sport, Cowboy Action Shooting, is entirely different. You can google it for more description if unknown to you, but the event attracts women, men and even children. Yeah, you have to dress the part, take a “cowboy/gun slinger” name and fire period firearms, but at heart it’s a family event.

            Women (and men/boys) love to dress up in period clothing. It’s a fashion event as much as a shooting event for them. Period firearms are not evil looking as black rifles are, but the same as depicted in the western movies we all grew up with. However, the result wrt training, reloading, movement between targets, is quite similar to anything I’ve done in other groups.

            The news media go wild here. Every State championship event attracts the evening news for a 60 second film clip—always positive, who does not like a cowboy or a women in a slutty bar girl outfit. 😉

            And the spin off—we have CAS’s who seek to attend the other shooting venues we offer. There they venture into a new world of black, ugly rifles and perhaps a bit of DR discussion. A gateway to be sure.

          • What about the type of events the Forgotten Weapons guy/Gun Jesus organizes and participates in? Those may seem kind of nerdy to the general public, but there’s no association with the militia or neo-Nazi crowds as far as I can tell.

          • Exactly Compsci… and good on you Sir. Participation in organizations that encourage Our people gathering, no matter how oblique to our goals as dissidents is a great achievement. It isn’t just getting them to fight, as many firebrands here and elsewhere demand, first we must give them something to fight for… and the realization that they will fight alongside their own and bot not alone.

        • No military wants sociopaths because they are uinpredicable and liable to turn on the very people who recruited them.,
          If you ever worked with or for such creatures you’d know this. They view people as objects to be used and then discarded.

      • Britain is nowhere near in the bad position the US is in. It is still possible there to turn things around with a minimal of violence.
        Assuming we even need sociopaths, we don’t need them TODAY. We are nowhere near ready to fight. Embracing sociopaths is a good way to isolate yourself. It’s also a good way to have your group destroyed. Sociopaths are not known for their loyalty. When it comes to the group interests or their interests, they will come first. If you doubt this, visit a prison with “white supremacist” gangs which exist first and foremost to sell drugs to imprisoned white people or to extort white prisoners.

        • Tommy Robinson – back before he became a Zio shill – made the point that before you can get Mr. and Mrs. Normie out in the street, you need the hooligans to make the streets safe first, you need someone who can go toe-to-toe with the Antifa-types and not flinch, people who are ready to go to jail so the Normies dare march.

          I’m not sure that strategy makes sense in 2020 (and I’m against live action campaigning to begin with) but there’s a rationale behind the sociopath strategy.

          Not that there are that many actual tattooed skinheads any more, they’re almost as much a MSM invention as the heiling, goose-stepping Nazi.

          • I really don’t get the right’s desire to go march in the streets. Right wing street protests accomplish nothing. Leftists riot for stuff the elite already want to do. They are not out in front of the elites. They have lowlifes and degenerates who couldn’t care less about getting into a fight or being arrested. They already have criminal records, they won’t get fired from their jobs assuming they even have one.
            People who want law and order are not going to out and rioting in the streets.

            The absolute best case scenario is nobody notices and it goes off without a hitch and they get a giant bill for police overtime.
            But that’s the best case scenario. Instead, leftist degenerates will attack them, the cops will do nothing unless the right fights back and then they get arrested and may very well get a decade in prison. All this will happen while the media lies about everything and says the right started it and was there to kill blacks.
            When the left goes in the streets, not only does the media cover up their bad behavior, but they have giant teams of legal people who not only fight the criminal charges on the few people arrested, but they file lawsuits on their behalf. There is an entire system behind leftist protesters that is largely not visible to the general public.
            If you look back at the St Floyd protestors, you will notice a lot of them had telephone numbers written on them. They didn’t just meet a guy or girl at the protest. That’s the number to get a free lawyer should you be arrested.
            They are very well organized too. There are people there whose only job is to be peaceful and look normal. They provide the cover for the degenerates. They pose for pictures for the press to show the “peaceful protest”
            The last place any dissident right winger needs to be is on the street doing a gay-op. Despite having everything on their side, the leftist protests are having an incredibly negative effect with the general public. They have gone into overdrive trying to reign it in. The last thing we need is to validate them and make them look good by going out there and fighting with them. Without right wing targets, these morons are walking into suburbs and shining lights in people’s houses! We need to not interrupt them. Hell, we to encourage them.

          • Based and true, with one caveat: let’s see how l’affaire Kyle Rittenhouse plays out. As several people have pointed out, Kyle would never have happened if everybody played it safe.

            If Kyle becomes a true American martyr, maybe live actioneering has its point, but nine times out of ten you lose IRL, because real life is the enemy’s home ground.

            The internet is our turf, this is where we beat them, this is where we should spend our time and efforts, not out in the street waving placards or doing police work for free.

            We need to not interrupt them. Hell, we to encourage them.

            Exactly so. It’s Aikido, the small guy’s martial art, the point is to use their own momentum against them.

          • He can only become a true American martyr if people are actually moved to action by his martyrdom. I have real doubts that will happen. I would really love to wake up and see an army marching on Kenosha to free Rittenhouse from jail after a wrongful conviction, but I won’t hold my breath.

          • I agree. Kyle may get lucky, but another kid will end up like James Fields, destroying his life. It’s heartbreaking to see it.

          • And how long will our home turf exist with a Democratic presidency and senate? About as long as a fart in a whirlwind.

            Z and many others here make light of Big Tech but they have the clout to totally deplatform us when they get a meat puppet in the WH

          • Like leftist Antifa losers just want to destroy and burn so Rightist losers want to march and salute Uncle A. These are inferior people and the only way no to be infested with them is to recognise the early signs and ban them from participating.

      • This was, more or less, the theme of one of Victor Davis Hanson’s books. These geniuses like Sherman or Patton who were never trusted by the establishment turn out to be wicked good at knowing how to fight. Sherman couldn’t get a commission at the start of the War of Northern Aggression, but he is the one who broke Dixie.

        Let’s hope there are brilliant misfits out there, passed over for promotion to VP of Southeast Regional Marketing and ready to find their true calling.

      • That is empirically a false statement. We have data going back to the Greeks that the best soldiers are normal, family, free men who are fighting as an extremely unpleasant task in shock battles of annihilation. Psychopaths don’t work. Indeed the “warrior” tradition of “barbarian” peoples against the Romans, Greeks, Crusaders etc. ended up mostly losing as long as the civilized Westerners were numerous and cohesive enough in that they could not stand against shock battles of annihilation. Nor could they conduct war as an ugly harvest, so to speak. With massive resources mobilized in an organized fashion.
        War is a very serious, highly cognitively loaded, professional engagement and the kinds of people you see LARPing around in Seattle and Portland are not very effective. This is even more true as combined arms, chemical and biological weapons, and modern signals intelligence play decisive roles on the battlefield. Psychopaths are essentially useless for much of anything.

      • Real soldiers are not sociopaths. This is an idea that has crept into your psyche from (((movies)))

      • Not particularly. In their element yes. Warriors are fine, disciplined soldiers are better. Sociopaths and the berserk are great for Schwarzenegger movies. Real world campaigns are won by trained and dedicated professionals. Give me a small group of mentally sound and relatively healthy young men and I can turn them into decent rifleman soldiers in 8 weeks. Just about any soldier or former soldier/Marine can do the same by simple repetition of how he was trained. It’s not magic. The key is getting recruits that believe they are joining something that is worth fighting for. That’s where Zmans point is most salient.

        • Bingo. But it helps if these men have some baseline knowledge, equipment, and are fit. Are you sure you’ll get 8 weeks? I’m not.

        • Vox has a neat little story up right now about how 4 good optics Marines fared against a horde of Antifa.

          Spoiler alert-they ran for their lives. Another Proud Boy is in the hospital ICU with a brain bleed after being targeted and ran over by an Antifa.

          • Zero T,
            I saw that article. They were outmatched for what they were facing, which is a twilight world of law and order. They thought their weapons and demeanor would dissuade antifa from pushing it all the while keeping in the back of their minds that if they do fire they’ll be served up on a platter by TPTB. It’s the same thing soldiers face when the ROE is too restrictive. And antifa is well coordinated and led so they know exactly how far to push and remain in the arena of the “victim” should a shooting occur. Their masters actually hope some of the drones will get wacked so they can wave the victim flag.

            Those former Marines were playing checkers in a chess game. In a Katie bar the door law and order cessation open urban firefight they would be more in their element. This twilight of half-policing and a hostile media is insufferable for tactics on Our side. The only answer I can see going forward is to change the game completely.

            I’m glad that article came out. Antifa/BLM and more specifically their handlers are not going to be the cakewalk a lot of Our “got my guns and they are puss**s!” cadre think they will be. I think there was an ancient Chinaman that said something about underestimating your opponent…

      • If it comes to war, then even Z-man will probably be willing to share a foxhole with nazi larper. But we are trying to not get to that point.

      • Sociopaths won’t be hard to attract when there’s conflict. I believe the point is that sociopaths don’t build a movement.

      • The problem with wignats is not that they’re sociopaths it’s that they’re no-impulse control retards who love to march in formation for the media. We need a better class of sociopaths.

      • Behind the optics side of the debate is the implicit understanding that we must become men of civilization again in order to get out of this.

        A man of civilization is a father and a soldier who is self-disciplined, self-restrained and professional. Those who reject the appearance of one do so because they reject the necessary virtues of one.

        A man of civilization is an aspirational figure in these times, and a major component of leadership and movement building is being the sort of person other people want to be. This will natural draw others to your movement, but only if they see you as one such aspirational figure which is where looking the part matters most.

        Know that the sportsball, couch potato normie is to a real father as a sociopath is to a real soldier. The left has cornered the market on sociopaths too, and that will not change unless you forsake the duties of civilization to become the left.

        The difficulty here is that you do not get to remain a spergy, weirdo loser with certain delusions about the future and your place in the future if the path forward is to become men of civilization. Some of you have clearly never seen real leadership either.

    • Hmmmmmm.

      The boys may be right, Z. In the shit-lib cities, the culture war has already gone hot, and they are way past PR programs. In America, the left is openly trying to subvert the next election. If this kind of thing can’t get Normie off his couch… I don’t think camping trips and picnics will either…

    • Depends on what’s accomplished on the camping trip. A few hard men sitting around a fire, beer-in-hand, is reminiscent of Sam Adams and friends in their local tavern. Our side desperately needs organization and this sounds like a beginning. Absolutely agree with your premise, but whether the goal is national reformation or hanging together as a community remnant, we’re going to need camaraderie and coordination. And we’ve got to shun the mouthy ones … to get a fireside seat you’ve gotta have skin in the game.

      • Electronics left at home and invitees vetted, the backwoods are about the only meeting spaces remaining where participants are not easily surveilled by USG.

      • I heartily approve. What matters are people that come to realize, as you put it, that they have real skin in the game if this goes pear shaped. And know who the others that feel the same are. These are people that will be “hard” when necessary, but “not hard” when times don’t call for it. You don’t build communities with sociopaths. Saw plenty of that in my own family. The nicest and most mild-mannered of the my great uncles (I found out after he died) had two Bronze Stars–one from Europe in WWII and the second from Korea plus a PH. And was a country banker between and after the wars. Your best allies may be people you’d never expect from outward appearance.

      • A few hard men sitting around a fire, beer-in-hand, is reminiscent of Sam Adams and friends in their local tavern.

        This is one of the reasons that bars have been shut for so long. The controllers are well aware that taverns were a hotbed of dissent when the American Revolution was getting underway.

        • When the time comes…

          The Time came and went.
          It was squandered on sales pitches to do nothing from smooth talking, smiling poisoners. I do not mean Trump.

          I mean you.

          Be happy the Left are so few, and the nation so vast. That space will give us room to maneuver. I mean America, not your fantasy right.

          How much time was squandered here today dreaming of perfecting a movement that does not exist?

          Nor will any of you ever stand, if you were the type you would have already.

          • Nor will any of you ever stand, if you were the type you would have already.

            Tell us about all the stands you’ve recently taken, tough guy.

      • Which in this day and age of instant streaming is why the left always have their video cameras out and switched on. If disfavorable information is recorded, it gets edited or the whole instance will be purged. Unless we are hitting them with small unit surprise tactics, our acts will always be recorded. Unarmed street brawls can have no benefit for us.

    • That’s if the task can even be accomplished at this late date.

      Give me Westminster, and I’ll have them out of there in less than a decade with not a shot fired and not a tear shed.

    • Until the West does not address the white genetic madness problem , mad whites infiltrate everything, take over and turn into absurd. Like in Ukraine, where nationalism now mean every last madness one country can have. If anybody remember, West had already influential good optics things like Universities. Mad whites took them over and now we all know, what University made reason and science mean. Every time when some pro white western guy tells that we need to do this or that, my first think is that you already did that. Let,s make small rich white ethnostate. Well, there were some, like Sweden. Mad white modus operandi is very easy. When something works, infiltrate and take over. Before finding defense mechanism, every “let;s do this or that” is useless.

    • I don’t see how good optics are mutually exclusive with “hard men”.The problem with street brawlers isn’t that they know how to fight, it’s that they are meatheaded losers. Much like ghetto blacks they fall into alternative hierarchies centered on toughness as a cope, after failing to rise above the bottom rung of normal social hierarchy, mostly due to their own character faults.
      I know a lot of respectable men who can hold their own in a fight but few hooligan types who get anything but contempt from people outside their circles.

      That being said, I think street brawler types could prove a positive, but only if the number of normal people in a faction rises enough to make the brawler contingent seem insignificant. This sadly wasn’t the case, even for the BNP.

      • “MadWhites” is a keeper, far better than “GoodWhites.” I may use “PsychoWhites” to avoid any confusion to the use of “mad.”

    • Men with families in tight-knit communities will fight much harder than a disillusioned sociopath with nothing to lose.

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